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Do you think Ele should ever get Weapon Swap?

Cyrin.1035

By Cyrin.1035
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Jski.6180

Jski.6180

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@Cyrin.1035 said:

So you go into a fight you believe is melee with your sword. It suddenly turns into a 1200+ long range fight and you can't swap weps. Are you still happy with not being able to swap to your long range wep?

I am using dagger/warhorn on my elementalist, so I face that lots of times, but I am able to close the gap pretty darn quick. That is just the price you pay for having 4 attunement swaps. Sounds like you want your cake and eat it, too. It simply wouldn't be fair to anyone else.

Do you have a video of your ele surviving a high dps long range fight? I have half a cake. I want the whole thing. Though I can do with a little less frosting.

? i pick a ranged duel annytime with my scepter/F tempest... My weaknes is too much boon corrupt and sometimes chain CC melee. All the bow users just cry and die. (OK P/P thief too).

Of course. But this discussion is about ele melee weps, primarily the sword and the lack of a consistent ranged wep to swap to in a fight that changes from melee to long range at any moment.

So the thing about ranged vs melee is something that only ele has to deal with because other classes have swaps (all though eng has to deal with this to a point kits fix this for them). Other classes can simply swap to a ranged attk wepon or an melee attk wepon its not the best way of things but its still a chose that ele simply dose not have during combat.

The fix may be making some atuments more ranged and other more melee. Lets take dagger main hand fire/ air seems more like the melee type of attks and earth / water seem like the ranged attk. The thing is for some reason earth and water attks are very locked in of where they can move to attk ppl as they are ranged attks that much keep to the ground to hit. I think they need to be leased locked into travailing on the ground and more true air attks that lobe to some point well the water one. Earth should just be a non LOS attk with 900 ranged.

Scepter need a "melee" attk or at least a self aoe attk this maybe best with water (a shot gun like attk) and i am not sure what else i do not know sepcter as well.

Sword need to have a ranged atument as well.

Staff needs a fast melee attk.

My point is wepon swap is not needed (all though it would be a great eliet spec.) the missing part ele needs should be atument base each MH wepon on ele needs at least 1 ranged atuments or melee atuments.

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Cyrin.1035

Cyrin.1035

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@Jski.6180 said:

So you go into a fight you believe is melee with your sword. It suddenly turns into a 1200+ long range fight and you can't swap weps. Are you still happy with not being able to swap to your long range wep?

I am using dagger/warhorn on my elementalist, so I face that lots of times, but I am able to close the gap pretty darn quick. That is just the price you pay for having 4 attunement swaps. Sounds like you want your cake and eat it, too. It simply wouldn't be fair to anyone else.

Do you have a video of your ele surviving a high dps long range fight? I have half a cake. I want the whole thing. Though I can do with a little less frosting.

? i pick a ranged duel annytime with my scepter/F tempest... My weaknes is too much boon corrupt and sometimes chain CC melee. All the bow users just cry and die. (OK P/P thief too).

Of course. But this discussion is about ele melee weps, primarily the sword and the lack of a consistent ranged wep to swap to in a fight that changes from melee to long range at any moment.

So the thing about ranged vs melee is something that only ele has to deal with because other classes have swaps (all though eng has to deal with this to a point kits fix this for them). Other classes can simply swap to a ranged attk wepon or an melee attk wepon its not the best way of things but its still a chose that ele simply dose not have during combat.

The fix may be making some atuments more ranged and other more melee. Lets take dagger main hand fire/ air seems more like the melee type of attks and earth / water seem like the ranged attk. The thing is for some reason earth and water attks are very locked in of where they can move to attk ppl as they are ranged attks that much keep to the ground to hit. I think they need to be leased locked into travailing on the ground and more true air attks that lobe to some point well the water one. Earth should just be a non LOS attk with 900 ranged.

Scepter need a "melee" attk or at least a self aoe attk this maybe best with water (a shot gun like attk) and i am not sure what else i do not know sepcter as well.

Sword need to have a ranged atument as well.

Staff needs a fast melee attk.

My point is wepon swap is not needed (all though it would be a great eliet spec.) the missing part ele needs should be atument base each MH wepon on ele needs at least 1 ranged atuments or melee atuments.

You'd rather they change tons of skills on many weps and limit entire attunements to only melee or range? Here's an idea... add wep swap in a new elite spec designed for it. Done.

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ReaverKane.7598

ReaverKane.7598

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Depends on 2 things:If they start doing elite spec releases outside expacs. And how long they keep on releasing expacs.Depending on that they'll eventually reach a point where they'll need to start considering stuff like actual specialized specializations, like a Lavamancer: only uses fire and earth atunements (but with all its skills being more akin to #3 skill for Weavers), and can weapon swap; or pyromancer (same but only fire attunement, and new F skills to compensate).

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Jski.6180

Jski.6180

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@Cyrin.1035 said:

So you go into a fight you believe is melee with your sword. It suddenly turns into a 1200+ long range fight and you can't swap weps. Are you still happy with not being able to swap to your long range wep?

I am using dagger/warhorn on my elementalist, so I face that lots of times, but I am able to close the gap pretty darn quick. That is just the price you pay for having 4 attunement swaps. Sounds like you want your cake and eat it, too. It simply wouldn't be fair to anyone else.

Do you have a video of your ele surviving a high dps long range fight? I have half a cake. I want the whole thing. Though I can do with a little less frosting.

? i pick a ranged duel annytime with my scepter/F tempest... My weaknes is too much boon corrupt and sometimes chain CC melee. All the bow users just cry and die. (OK P/P thief too).

Of course. But this discussion is about ele melee weps, primarily the sword and the lack of a consistent ranged wep to swap to in a fight that changes from melee to long range at any moment.

So the thing about ranged vs melee is something that only ele has to deal with because other classes have swaps (all though eng has to deal with this to a point kits fix this for them). Other classes can simply swap to a ranged attk wepon or an melee attk wepon its not the best way of things but its still a chose that ele simply dose not have during combat.

The fix may be making some atuments more ranged and other more melee. Lets take dagger main hand fire/ air seems more like the melee type of attks and earth / water seem like the ranged attk. The thing is for some reason earth and water attks are very locked in of where they can move to attk ppl as they are ranged attks that much keep to the ground to hit. I think they need to be leased locked into travailing on the ground and more true air attks that lobe to some point well the water one. Earth should just be a non LOS attk with 900 ranged.

Scepter need a "melee" attk or at least a self aoe attk this maybe best with water (a shot gun like attk) and i am not sure what else i do not know sepcter as well.

Sword need to have a ranged atument as well.

Staff needs a fast melee attk.

My point is wepon swap is not needed (all though it would be a great eliet spec.) the missing part ele needs should be atument base each MH wepon on ele needs at least 1 ranged atuments or melee atuments.

You'd rather they change tons of skills on many weps and limit entire attunements to only melee or range? Here's an idea... add wep swap in a new elite spec designed for it. Done.

I like to see all skills have realty use water 1 in dagger is nearly worthless why not make it a real ranged attk. Earth 1 in staff is weak why not make it into a melee or close ranged cleave. Scepter 1 water is just the worst why not make it into a melee shot gun like attk. Sword auto attks over all are not that good but i do not know enofe to understand witch one needs to be a ranged attk.

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Cyrin.1035

Cyrin.1035

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@Jski.6180 said:

So you go into a fight you believe is melee with your sword. It suddenly turns into a 1200+ long range fight and you can't swap weps. Are you still happy with not being able to swap to your long range wep?

I am using dagger/warhorn on my elementalist, so I face that lots of times, but I am able to close the gap pretty darn quick. That is just the price you pay for having 4 attunement swaps. Sounds like you want your cake and eat it, too. It simply wouldn't be fair to anyone else.

Do you have a video of your ele surviving a high dps long range fight? I have half a cake. I want the whole thing. Though I can do with a little less frosting.

? i pick a ranged duel annytime with my scepter/F tempest... My weaknes is too much boon corrupt and sometimes chain CC melee. All the bow users just cry and die. (OK P/P thief too).

Of course. But this discussion is about ele melee weps, primarily the sword and the lack of a consistent ranged wep to swap to in a fight that changes from melee to long range at any moment.

So the thing about ranged vs melee is something that only ele has to deal with because other classes have swaps (all though eng has to deal with this to a point kits fix this for them). Other classes can simply swap to a ranged attk wepon or an melee attk wepon its not the best way of things but its still a chose that ele simply dose not have during combat.

The fix may be making some atuments more ranged and other more melee. Lets take dagger main hand fire/ air seems more like the melee type of attks and earth / water seem like the ranged attk. The thing is for some reason earth and water attks are very locked in of where they can move to attk ppl as they are ranged attks that much keep to the ground to hit. I think they need to be leased locked into travailing on the ground and more true air attks that lobe to some point well the water one. Earth should just be a non LOS attk with 900 ranged.

Scepter need a "melee" attk or at least a self aoe attk this maybe best with water (a shot gun like attk) and i am not sure what else i do not know sepcter as well.

Sword need to have a ranged atument as well.

Staff needs a fast melee attk.

My point is wepon swap is not needed (all though it would be a great eliet spec.) the missing part ele needs should be atument base each MH wepon on ele needs at least 1 ranged atuments or melee atuments.

You'd rather they change tons of skills on many weps and limit entire attunements to only melee or range? Here's an idea... add wep swap in a new elite spec designed for it. Done.

I like to see all skills have realty use water 1 in dagger is nearly worthless why not make it a real ranged attk. Earth 1 in staff is weak why not make it into a melee or close ranged cleave. Scepter 1 water is just the worst why not make it into a melee shot gun like attk. Sword auto attks over all are not that good but i do not know enofe to understand witch one needs to be a ranged attk.

I agree, all of that would make the Ele weps better. The only issue is that the Devs would likely not do an overhaul like that. It would affect too much especially balancing. But if they did, it would certainly fix the long range issue on sword and overall make the Ele more effectively versatile.

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Jski.6180

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@Cyrin.1035 said:

So you go into a fight you believe is melee with your sword. It suddenly turns into a 1200+ long range fight and you can't swap weps. Are you still happy with not being able to swap to your long range wep?

I am using dagger/warhorn on my elementalist, so I face that lots of times, but I am able to close the gap pretty darn quick. That is just the price you pay for having 4 attunement swaps. Sounds like you want your cake and eat it, too. It simply wouldn't be fair to anyone else.

Do you have a video of your ele surviving a high dps long range fight? I have half a cake. I want the whole thing. Though I can do with a little less frosting.

? i pick a ranged duel annytime with my scepter/F tempest... My weaknes is too much boon corrupt and sometimes chain CC melee. All the bow users just cry and die. (OK P/P thief too).

Of course. But this discussion is about ele melee weps, primarily the sword and the lack of a consistent ranged wep to swap to in a fight that changes from melee to long range at any moment.

So the thing about ranged vs melee is something that only ele has to deal with because other classes have swaps (all though eng has to deal with this to a point kits fix this for them). Other classes can simply swap to a ranged attk wepon or an melee attk wepon its not the best way of things but its still a chose that ele simply dose not have during combat.

The fix may be making some atuments more ranged and other more melee. Lets take dagger main hand fire/ air seems more like the melee type of attks and earth / water seem like the ranged attk. The thing is for some reason earth and water attks are very locked in of where they can move to attk ppl as they are ranged attks that much keep to the ground to hit. I think they need to be leased locked into travailing on the ground and more true air attks that lobe to some point well the water one. Earth should just be a non LOS attk with 900 ranged.

Scepter need a "melee" attk or at least a self aoe attk this maybe best with water (a shot gun like attk) and i am not sure what else i do not know sepcter as well.

Sword need to have a ranged atument as well.

Staff needs a fast melee attk.

My point is wepon swap is not needed (all though it would be a great eliet spec.) the missing part ele needs should be atument base each MH wepon on ele needs at least 1 ranged atuments or melee atuments.

You'd rather they change tons of skills on many weps and limit entire attunements to only melee or range? Here's an idea... add wep swap in a new elite spec designed for it. Done.

I like to see all skills have realty use water 1 in dagger is nearly worthless why not make it a real ranged attk. Earth 1 in staff is weak why not make it into a melee or close ranged cleave. Scepter 1 water is just the worst why not make it into a melee shot gun like attk. Sword auto attks over all are not that good but i do not know enofe to understand witch one needs to be a ranged attk.

I agree, all of that would make the Ele weps better. The only issue is that the Devs would likely not do an overhaul like that. It would affect too much especially balancing. But if they did, it would certainly fix the long range issue on sword and overall make the Ele more versatile.

But its out right silly ele is the only class that has lock off that you can only find on ele. What defines the class is what it lacks not what it has and by no means is that how you should balances a class.What they need to do is go though a list of explnaing the ele class to new ppl what it cant do and you would have a better ideal of what type of class it is then the curent one."Elementalists are multifaceted spellcasters who channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up for in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage."

It should read Elementalists a spell caster who lacks many tools and must use its versatility of atument spams to do any thing of worth. It lacks any powerful boons both support and self, it lacks any type of boon control, it lacks any type of condi control (condis to boons it has some clears), it lack wepon swap so it a very locked in class for combat (no ideal where versatility is coming form at this point), it lacks most condi dmg types (burning and bleed is not enofe), it lacks unblockable dmg skills (its massive dmg is very pve aimed not pvp), its a slow caster / attker, is has the lowest hp / def in the game, it very locked into what lines it must use, its very locked into what utitly it uses (its funny they have Glyphs and Conjuring as its preview utility and any ele player will tell you that the worst of the worst on the ele class full of pointless skills), even the atuments are full of pointless skills for all of the weapons and you get better dmg by jumping between 2 atumens most of the time, it still has some of the longest cd in the game.Fire

Inflict scorching damage on multiple enemies by turning the ground to fire, raining down molten rock from the skies, and more.(Low stack of burning some ok dmg with long cast time and very limented pAoE)

Air

By harnessing wind and lightning, elementalists shock foes, stop them in their footsteps, and run as swiftly as the wind itself.

(Some of the lowest dmg skill in the game and very very few hard cc with low duration)

Water

Elementalists chill their foes with ice and rejuvenate their allies with the soothing power of water.

(You must run this line or you cant play ele in most settings with very low chill durations effects and very weak healing unless your all in)

Earth

The ground under an elementalist’s feet can be called to their aid. They turn flesh to stone, destabilize foes with seismic shocks, or trigger volcanic eruptions.

(Anet is playing a very different game then we are i think maybe they play on a day one server earth dose nothing like this)

Glyphs

These arcane spells are enhanced by the elementalist’s current attunement. They activate glyphs to call down elemental storms or summon elemental familiars to aid them in battle.

(They are not arcane spells.... and the boons are weaker then the ones you get from the arcane line. The pets are thow aways not even close to a familiar.)

Conjuring

Elementalists use conjure spells to create elemental weapons, such as a bow of ice, an axe of fire, a lightning hammer, and an earthen shield.

(The weapons are weaker then your main weapons, all though they say nothing that they do just call them weapons so yes they are weapons in the very loos ideal of an wepon like a rock is a good wepon but it still a rock that you pick up.)

Ele is a joke of a class just try playing any thing else and you will see very quickly what a real class is.

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Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

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@"Jski.6180" said:But its out right silly ele is the only class that has lock off that you can only find on ele. What defines the class is what it lacks not what it has and by no means is that how you should balances a class.What they need to do is go though a list of explnaing the ele class to new ppl what it cant do and you would have a better ideal of what type of class it is then the curent one."Elementalists are multifaceted spellcasters who channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up for in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage."

It should read Elementalists a spell caster who lacks many tools and must use its versatility of atument spams to do any thing of worth. It lacks any powerful boons both support and self,

The only boons the elementalist don't have are quickness, resistance, alacrity and aegis And you can easily cap all other boons on yourself and up to 4 allies.

it lacks any type of boon control, it lacks any type of condi control (condis to boons it has some clears),

I'm affraid not many professions have boon ripping effect and condi conversion.

it lack wepon swap so it a very locked in class for combat (no ideal where versatility is coming form at this point),

It got 4 effective weapon swaps that proc sigils when these sigils are off cool down. You always have an availlable skillset that offer you damage, sustain, defense and control, whatever your weapon choice. This is more than enough to say that there is versatility.

it lacks most condi dmg types (burning and bleed is not enofe), it lacks unblockable dmg skills (its massive dmg is very pve aimed not pvp), its a slow caster / attker,

Slow caster? Depend heavily on your build.

is has the lowest hp / def in the game, it very locked into what lines it must use, its very locked into what utitly it uses (its funny they have Glyphs and Conjuring as its preview utility and any ele player will tell you that the worst of the worst on the ele class full of pointless skills),

Glyph and conjure are pretty good when you know how to use them. Well, I'd grant you that fireaxe is very badly designed.

even the atuments are full of pointless skills for all of the weapons and you get better dmg by jumping between 2 atumens most of the time, it still has some of the longest cd in the game.

Maybe it's better to have to jump between 2 attunments that being locked into using only your auto attack to maximize your dps.

Fire

Inflict scorching damage on multiple enemies by turning the ground to fire, raining down molten rock from the skies, and more.(Low stack of burning some ok dmg with long cast time and very limented pAoE)

So few stacks of burning that there is even a tempest build that allow you competitive level of condi dps just with burn stacks.

Air

By harnessing wind and lightning, elementalists shock foes, stop them in their footsteps, and run as swiftly as the wind itself.

(Some of the lowest dmg skill in the game and very very few hard cc with low duration)

That's certainly why fresh air build are among the top build when you need to burst something. Whatever your weaponset, you'll always have access to at least 1 hard CC skill in air.

Water

Elementalists chill their foes with ice and rejuvenate their allies with the soothing power of water.

(You must run this line or you cant play ele in most settings with very low chill durations effects and very weak healing unless your all in)

Low chill duration... You'd give an heart attack to a reaper if it were able to read what you wrote here...

Earth

The ground under an elementalist’s feet can be called to their aid. They turn flesh to stone, destabilize foes with seismic shocks, or trigger volcanic eruptions.

(Anet is playing a very different game then we are i think maybe they play on a day one server earth dose nothing like this)

Turn flesh to stone: obsidian flesh (focus #5), destabilize foes with seismic shocks: earthquake (dagger #4), trigger volcanic eruptions: churning earth (dagger #5) and eruption (staff#2). Maybe it's you that ain't playing the game.

Glyphs

These arcane spells are enhanced by the elementalist’s current attunement. They activate glyphs to call down elemental storms or summon elemental familiars to aid them in battle.

(They are not arcane spells.... and the boons are weaker then the ones you get from the arcane line. The pets are thow aways not even close to a familiar.)

Indeed they are not viewed as arcane spells (because "arcane" is a different category of skills), however they behave like arcane spell, which make the statement valid. The elementals are usefull in many situation and the other gliphs are all pretty strong. As for the boons granted, this is pretty decent.

Conjuring

Elementalists use conjure spells to create elemental weapons, such as a bow of ice, an axe of fire, a lightning hammer, and an earthen shield.

(The weapons are weaker then your main weapons, all though they say nothing that they do just call them weapons so yes they are weapons in the very loos ideal of an wepon like a rock is a good wepon but it still a rock that you pick up.)

The conjure weapons are pretty strong, hammer hit like a truck and have CC, the shortbow have been part of PvE dps rotation since age even after being nerfed a few time and fiery GS is good for mobility and damage. Earthshield is cluncky as hell but useful to survive and fireaxe... is absolutely not exciting.

Ele is a joke of a class just try playing any thing else and you will see very quickly what a real class is.

The elementalist is far far far from being a "joke of a class". Your previous analysis just show how twisted your view of this profession is, You don't seem to even begin to understand how to play the professions and you don't seem to have the single clue of how to use some elementalist's skills. It just disgust me to see that some dare to upvote what you wrote.

I get that some of you think that by belittleling this profession you might be able to snuggle some buff for it, but please, pretty please there are limits. Have some decency, when I read you I feel like I read the word of a new player who never tried to have a feel of the profession.

The elementalist is great! It got a fast pace, high sustain, some pretty decent burst and rock solid defense. It's always been sought out in PvE, was a pilar in WvW for a long time and can have some pretty decent results in PvP. It's only real "weakness" is that it tend to need to be built defensively in PvP and that's all.

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Jski.6180

Jski.6180

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:But its out right silly ele is the only class that has lock off that you can only find on ele. What defines the class is what it lacks not what it has and by no means is that how you should balances a class.What they need to do is go though a list of explnaing the ele class to new ppl what it cant do and you would have a better ideal of what type of class it is then the curent one."Elementalists are multifaceted spellcasters who channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up for in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage."

It should read Elementalists a spell caster who lacks many tools and must use its versatility of atument spams to do any thing of worth. It lacks any powerful boons both support and self,

The only boons the elementalist don't have are quickness, resistance, alacrity and aegis And you can easily cap all other boons on yourself and up to 4 allies.That a lot of boons to be missing and they do not have an aoe verson of stab that is viable for support.

it lacks any type of boon control, it lacks any type of condi control (condis to boons it has some clears),

I'm affraid not many professions have boon ripping effect and condi conversion.

Not all classes as in ele is the only class with any of this at all. So all the professions but ele has these effects.

it lack wepon swap so it a very locked in class for combat (no ideal where versatility is coming form at this point),

It got 4 effective weapon swaps that proc sigils when these sigils are off cool down. You always have an availlable skillset that offer you damage, sustain, defense and control, whatever your weapon choice. This is more than enough to say that there is versatility.

Sigils are a sad door prize to give ele when most classes can have both ranged aimed wepon and melee wepons in combat where they can change there game play on the fly but ele cant.

it lacks most condi dmg types (burning and bleed is not enofe), it lacks unblockable dmg skills (its massive dmg is very pve aimed not pvp), its a slow caster / attker,

Slow caster? Depend heavily on your build.

Cast speed is the same for all weapons remember you even pointed out ele lacks quickness and most of its skills are on a longer cast time then most.

is has the lowest hp / def in the game, it very locked into what lines it must use, its very locked into what utitly it uses (its funny they have Glyphs and Conjuring as its preview utility and any ele player will tell you that the worst of the worst on the ele class full of pointless skills),

Glyph and conjure are pretty good when you know how to use them. Well, I'd grant you that fireaxe is very badly designed.Its unbelive bad designed a pet as they put it makes it sound like its with you all the time not on these super low duration with even longer cast times and with very very low hp.

even the atuments are full of pointless skills for all of the weapons and you get better dmg by jumping between 2 atumens most of the time, it still has some of the longest cd in the game.

Maybe it's better to have to jump between 2 attunments that being locked into using only your auto attack to maximize your dps.

That not a good thing.

Fire

Inflict scorching damage on multiple enemies by turning the ground to fire, raining down molten rock from the skies, and more.(Low stack of burning some ok dmg with long cast time and very limented pAoE)

So few stacks of burning that there is even a tempest build that allow you competitive level of condi dps just with burn stacks.

Ya a build that only works in melee and all in where most classes simply get condi like that when they just play. Your talking about a build that is so specialized in the same of game play that is viable and in set up that its only burn stacking where other classes have realty condis like poison or torment that dose signify more.

Air

By harnessing wind and lightning, elementalists shock foes, stop them in their footsteps, and run as swiftly as the wind itself.

(Some of the lowest dmg skill in the game and very very few hard cc with low duration)

That's certainly why fresh air build are among the top build when you need to burst something. Whatever your weaponset, you'll always have access to at least 1 hard CC skill in air.

Freash air getting nerf next.

Water

Elementalists chill their foes with ice and rejuvenate their allies with the soothing power of water.

(You must run this line or you cant play ele in most settings with very low chill durations effects and very weak healing unless your all in)

Low chill duration... You'd give an heart attack to a reaper if it were able to read what you wrote here...

Still a must used line and its more then just duration its appreciation. Ele dose not apply enofe chill to make it worth the risk of the chill being converted into alacrity.

Earth

The ground under an elementalist’s feet can be called to their aid. They turn flesh to stone, destabilize foes with seismic shocks, or trigger volcanic eruptions.

(Anet is playing a very different game then we are i think maybe they play on a day one server earth dose nothing like this)

Turn flesh to stone:
obsidian flesh
(focus #5), destabilize foes with seismic shocks:
earthquake
(dagger #4), trigger volcanic eruptions:
churning earth
(dagger #5) and
eruption
(staff#2). Maybe it's you that ain't playing the game.

All from the same wepon set my god why have i not played the game like that you must tell me how you run main hand staff off hand dagger off hand focus all at the same time.

Glyphs

These arcane spells are enhanced by the elementalist’s current attunement. They activate glyphs to call down elemental storms or summon elemental familiars to aid them in battle.

(They are not arcane spells.... and the boons are weaker then the ones you get from the arcane line. The pets are thow aways not even close to a familiar.)

Indeed they are not viewed as arcane spells (because "arcane" is a different category of skills), however they behave like arcane spell, which make the statement valid. The elementals are usefull in many situation and the other gliphs are all pretty strong. As for the boons granted, this is pretty decent.

They dont though they behave like wells well one of them the other 2 are pets that are effectually dead on cast and the other is a rez that no one uses. They are not spells more passive effects for nothing.

Conjuring

Elementalists use conjure spells to create elemental weapons, such as a bow of ice, an axe of fire, a lightning hammer, and an earthen shield.

(The weapons are weaker then your main weapons, all though they say nothing that they do just call them weapons so yes they are weapons in the very loos ideal of an wepon like a rock is a good wepon but it still a rock that you pick up.)

The conjure weapons are pretty strong, hammer hit like a truck and have CC, the shortbow have been part of PvE dps rotation since age even after being nerfed a few time and fiery GS is good for mobility and damage. Earthshield is cluncky as hell but useful to survive and fireaxe... is absolutely not exciting.

Ha now that a good one tell me about how you use that fire axe and GS in your burn stacking build.

Ele is a joke of a class just try playing any thing else and you will see very quickly what a real class is.

The elementalist is far far far from being a "joke of a class". Your previous analysis just show how twisted your view of this profession is, You don't seem to even begin to understand how to play the professions and you don't seem to have the single clue of how to use some elementalist's skills. It just disgust me to see that some dare to upvote what you wrote.

I get that some of you think that by belittleling this profession you might be able to snuggle some buff for it, but please, pretty please there are limits. Have some decency, when I read you I feel like I read the word of a new player who never tried to have a feel of the profession.

The elementalist is great! It got a fast pace, high sustain, some pretty decent burst and rock solid defense. It's always been sought out in PvE, was a pilar in WvW for a long time and can have some pretty decent results in PvP. It's only real "weakness" is that it tend to need to be built defensively in PvP and that's all.

You ideal and though are all over the places one moment your talking about pve then pvp and then wvw to a point. Your simply charrly picking good points and suggesting other classes will fill in what ele lacks. Its bad game balancing to think this way and with the coming skill split comply invalid.

Ele is the worst class in gw2 atm. With some of the most useless skills and effects because its simply out dated and balanced to 2012 settings not 2018.

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@"Jski.6180" said:snip

The issue come from you. You obviously lack the flexibility that is needed to play an elementalist and you have a very narrow view of the game.A few points:

  • fresh air isn't getting nerfed, electric discharge is. It make a huge difference and only impact marginally fresh air builds.
  • Nobody said to use staff main hand/focus/dagger off hand as a weaponset. You use a sentence from anet that you comment and in this sentence never does anet say that it's from the same weaponset. Even more, you mix everything yourself crying about water (traitline) being mandatory and then comment on earth only looking at weapon skills.
  • As astonishing as it may be, you could make use of the fireaxe and the fiery GS in a burn stacking build, it wouldn't be the most effecient thing to do but, noneseless, it would be possible.
  • Melee is totally possible as an elementalist and absolutely not deadlier than for any other profession.
  • PvP, WvW and PvE are 3 gamemodes that make this game a whole. And objectively the elementalist ain't bad in any of these 3 gamemodes. Frustrating in PvP? Yes, but that's all. And that's only because most elementalist want to be able to play more aggressively in this gamemode and anet try to make this possible, weaver is the live proof of that, the bottom traitline of the weaver spec being specifically designed to try to let you part from the water traitline. It's not quite enough yet, sure but more would make tanky specs gamebreaking. And anet hate tanky specs much more than elementalist's players hate playing on the defensive in PvP.
  • Last but not least is that the current elementalist is the fruit of these last 6 years of balance, it's not a profession fixed in 2012, else you'll still play DD core in PvP and WvW (roaming), Frostbow and fiery GS would still reckt PvE... Man, in 2012 elementalist's aoe could hit way more target than they do right now, boons didn't even have a target cap (this was breaking WvW more than all scourges could do at their prime)... Nope, the elementalist isn't fixed in 2012.

Elementalist is not the worst profession in gw2, revenant is a way more fitting contender for this unwanted title. And even after revenant, I'm not sure that it would still be the turn of the elementalist to complain about being the "worst".

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:
snip

The issue come from you. You obviously lack the flexibility that is needed to play an elementalist and you have a very narrow view of the game.A few points:
  • fresh air
    isn't getting nerfed,
    electric discharge
    is. It make a huge difference and only impact marginally
    fresh air
    builds.

That Is the fresh air build and its going to impact the build a great deal.

  • Nobody said to use staff main hand/focus/dagger off hand as a weaponset. You use a sentence from anet that you comment and in this sentence never does anet say that it's from the same weaponset. Even more, you mix everything yourself crying about water (traitline) being mandatory and then comment on earth only looking at weapon skills.The why it is described it sounds like you can do all of it all the time but you cant and offten what they call one thing like erupting is much weaker then it should be.
  • As astonishing as it may be, you could make use of the fireaxe and the fiery GS in a burn stacking build, it wouldn't be the most effecient thing to do but, noneseless, it would be possible.That the thing the weapons are mostly worthless even after the updates they are still very weak.
  • Melee is totally possible as an elementalist and absolutely not deadlier than for any other profession.Its "melee" as in your using your skill at melee ranged not that your a full melee class at best your simply able to heal spam but the sec you stop your dead. Most melee have very powerful take 0 dmg effects (even ranger has this).And the talk is about being able to melee and ranged at the same time on all the main hand weapons because ele cant stop like other classes who can have both a melee wepon and a ranged wepon set with in the same fight.
  • PvP, WvW and PvE are 3 gamemodes that make this game a whole. And objectively the elementalist ain't bad in any of these 3 gamemodes. Frustrating in PvP? Yes, but that's all. And that's only because most elementalist want to be able to play more aggressively in this gamemode and anet try to make this possible, weaver is the live proof of that, the bottom traitline of the weaver spec being specifically designed to try to let you part from the water traitline. It's not quite enough yet, sure but more would make tanky specs gamebreaking. And anet hate tanky specs much more than elementalist's players hate playing on the defensive in PvP.3 game moods only 2 of them use all effects in the game the other 1 pve is just a mostly max dmg benchmark and healing benchmark and tankly benchmark that it. Any class can pve because you dont need things like clears stab boon strips etc.. you just need raw dmg and dmg that stay out because mobs do not have ai to get out of aoe overly inflating the use of ele skills in pve. In the other 2 game moods spvp and wvw your targets have brains boons and cc all hard counters to ele slow dmg.
  • Last but not least is that the current elementalist is the fruit of these last 6 years of balance, it's not a profession fixed in 2012, else you'll still play DD core in PvP and WvW (roaming), Frostbow and fiery GS would still reckt PvE... Man, in 2012 elementalist's aoe could hit way more target than they do right now, boons didn't even have a target cap (this was breaking WvW more than all scourges could do at their prime)... Nope, the elementalist isn't fixed in 2012.

Ele has been nerfed for the last 6 years nerfd hard you would be hard press to find a real buff or the buffs you do see is becomes effects were removed. This is not a find crafted class this is a class who lacks every thing and cant do any thing.Elementalist is not the worst profession in gw2, revenant is a way more fitting contender for this unwanted title. And even after revenant, I'm not sure that it would still be the turn of the elementalist to complain about being the "worst".

Reven got real flavor effects because it was anet darling for a time and got major buffs to fit the current metas.One could even say rev was the start of Ele true down fall as a class. When every thing that was balanced in the game started to fall apart and seeming gave devs freedom to make op effects like what we see with scorge and fire brand.

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@Jski.6180 said:

snip

The issue come from you. You obviously lack the flexibility that is needed to play an elementalist and you have a very narrow view of the game.A few points:
  • fresh air
    isn't getting nerfed,
    electric discharge
    is. It make a huge difference and only impact marginally
    fresh air
    builds.

That Is the fresh air build and its going to impact the build a great deal.

Nope man, that is not what make fresh air elementalist strong. If you think so then that mean you totally don't understand fresh air build and that's a pity. Fresh air is used to main an air attunment, or more specifically make it so that you can enter air attunment at will. Electric discharge is a collateral benefit to this but that's all. You don't use electric discharge as a main damage component. How much do you think ED will lose in damage? 500? 1k on a crit? Probably less than that. This is a minor burst nerf and a negligible dps nerf in the end. ED is not what make or break FA builds.

  • Nobody said to use staff main hand/focus/dagger off hand as a weaponset. You use a sentence from anet that you comment and in this sentence never does anet say that it's from the same weaponset. Even more, you mix everything yourself crying about water (traitline) being mandatory and then comment on earth only looking at weapon skills.The why it is described it sounds like you can do all of it all the time but you cant and offten what they call one thing like erupting is much weaker then it should be.

Nope, they introduce earth magic, that's all. An introduction to a subject don't need to be thorough, it just need to awaken the interrest of the reader.

  • As astonishing as it may be, you could make use of the fireaxe and the fiery GS in a burn stacking build, it wouldn't be the most effecient thing to do but, noneseless, it would be possible.That the thing the weapons are mostly worthless even after the updates they are still very weak.

They are not "very weak", they are situationnals. Fiery GS is a very powerful mobility tool with an interesting damage aspect for example. How many elementalists used Fiery GS to outrun some opponents when they needed to reset a fight? Countless. How many elementalists used fiery whirl to timely dodge a deadly attack? Countless as well. Like I said, fireaxe is the only conjure which is neglected in the game because it doesn't really give anything interesting. It would probably be way better if the auto attack was a melee auto and applied burn instead of being another might stacking skill but even with that the kit feel weak in front of the other options that the elementalist have.

  • Melee is totally possible as an elementalist and absolutely not deadlier than for any other profession.Its "melee" as in your using your skill at melee ranged not that your a full melee class at best your simply able to heal spam but the sec you stop your dead. Most melee have very powerful take 0 dmg effects (even ranger has this).

If you think that the elementalist don't have skill that nullify damage like other melee profession then obviously you don't play elementalist. Evade skills on melee weapons, invuln skill and projectile destruction skills on focus as well as invuln and block on utility skills. You got all of that ready at hand. Should I list them?

  • evade frame: Burning speed (core), burning retreat (core), fiery whirl (core), Mud slide (weaver), steam surge (weaver), riptide (weaver), earthen wortex (weaver), twist of fate (weaver)
  • block: arcane shield (core)
  • physical invuln: obsidian flesh (core), fortify (core), mist form (core)
  • Barrier: stone sheath (core), magnetic shield (core), stone resonance (weaver)
  • Projectile destruction: swirling wind (core), ring of earth (core)
  • Projectile reflection: Magnetic aura (core), Aftershock (tempest)

I probably even miss some. Give me a single profession that have as much choice than that.

And the talk is about being able to melee and ranged at the same time on all the main hand weapons because ele cant stop like other classes who can have both a melee wepon and a ranged wepon set with in the same fight.

Well indeed the talk is about the possibility of having another weapon swap, but that doesn't necessary mean that it have to be a ranged option.

  • PvP, WvW and PvE are 3 gamemodes that make this game a whole. And objectively the elementalist ain't bad in any of these 3 gamemodes. Frustrating in PvP? Yes, but that's all. And that's only because most elementalist want to be able to play more aggressively in this gamemode and anet try to make this possible, weaver is the live proof of that, the bottom traitline of the weaver spec being specifically designed to try to let you part from the water traitline. It's not quite enough yet, sure but more would make tanky specs gamebreaking. And anet hate tanky specs much more than elementalist's players hate playing on the defensive in PvP.3 game moods only 2 of them use all effects in the game the other 1 pve is just a mostly max dmg benchmark and healing benchmark and tankly benchmark that it. Any class can pve because you dont need things like clears stab boon strips etc.. you just need raw dmg and dmg that stay out because mobs do not have ai to get out of aoe overly inflating the use of ele skills in pve. In the other 2 game moods spvp and wvw your targets have brains boons and cc all hard counters to ele slow dmg.

You can hate PvE as much as you want, know that there are a lot of players that are way easier to kill than most mobs. The PvE end game is the land where you try to overspecialize yourself, I won't deny it, however the real issue of the elementalist in PvP is when player try to play the same way that they in PvE end game. And again, the ele damages are not "slower" than other professions, it just depend on what build you play.

  • Last but not least is that the current elementalist is the fruit of these last 6 years of balance, it's not a profession fixed in 2012, else you'll still play DD core in PvP and WvW (roaming), Frostbow and fiery GS would still reckt PvE... Man, in 2012 elementalist's aoe could hit way more target than they do right now, boons didn't even have a target cap (this was breaking WvW more than all scourges could do at their prime)... Nope, the elementalist isn't fixed in 2012.

Ele has been nerfed for the last 6 years nerfd hard you would be hard press to find a real buff or the buffs you do see is becomes effects were removed. This is not a find crafted class this is a class who lacks every thing and cant do any thing.

As a joke I could point out shatterstone. But all in all, you've had the introduction of burning fire and blinding ash in the fire traitline to try to remove some of the reliance on the water line, Fresh air giving you a 250 ferocity buff, stone heart preventing any critical hit, elemental enchantement giving you concentration now, glyph of elemental power which now break stun, have a shorter cool down and is now way more friendly user, Arcane power which is now shared to your party members... etc.

Elementalist is not the worst profession in gw2, revenant is a way more fitting contender for this unwanted title. And even after revenant, I'm not sure that it would still be the turn of the elementalist to complain about being the "worst".

Reven got real flavor effects because it was anet darling for a time and got major buffs to fit the current metas.One could even say rev was the start of Ele true down fall as a class. When every thing that was balanced in the game started to fall apart and seeming gave devs freedom to make op effects like what we see with scorge and fire brand.

Please, revenant is an half baked profession with forced set of underwhelming utilities. They don't even have the the possibility of chosing a different utility when they they chose a legend. They are like an elementalist who wouldn't have any utility skills sloted, just their weaponset and 4 attunments. You are belittling elementalist's elemental summons and what did they get as their last legend? A full set of those summons that you loath and die as fast than elementalist's one. They even have an energy cost handicap on skill use.

As for scourge, he is the stupid product of the dev's will to counter a rampant boon meta. They've been overzealous and created a monster that shouldn't have ever been introduced in this game. The whole shade mechanism need to be reworked from the ground. The necromancer needed a support spec, yes, however, the necromancer didn't need to become a living plague. Anet, when they design the necromancer, just put everything on the special mechanism and then look at something more interesting like other professions. As for the firebrand, they didn't introduced anything "new". The "book" mechanism is an old one. They should have maybe put a single book on F4 and have it traited for each kind of effect but, now it's done (I'm saying this because the "books" used to be elite skills).

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I disagree with you on many of your points but i wanted to only point out this rev started the boon meta and was the excuse for pushing more condis and more boon strips.

Back to the point wepon swap on ele would not fit well with atument swap but the current lock into combat type of the main hand weapons needs to be more atument aimed not wepon aimed.

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I disagree with you on many of your points but i wanted to only point out this rev started the boon meta and was the excuse for pushing more condis and more boon strips.

Did ya ever play WvW before HoT? Did ya ever play in dungeons before HoT? Boons are the very things that made possible dungeon speed clear since ages, just why do you think that players were stacking for there? Boons were what made the DD elementalist so effective pre HoT in PvP and WvW. A steady boon gen was what made the power difference between a PuG raid in WvW and a guild raid. Just how many time did I heard my commanders pushing our raid to make strengthen us before an impact? Just what do you think the N in GWEN was there for? The necromancer only existed in the GWEN meta to destroy the boons on the enemy zerg just before the impact with a nasty well bomb. Just what do you think shoutbow/hambow warrior were used for in PvP before HoT? Just what do you think tempest support was doing in PvP?

Revenant starting the boon meta? What a joke!!! I can swear it, boons have been the very thing that differentiate bad group/raid/player in every game mode since launch.

Back to the point wepon swap on ele would not fit well with atument swap but the current lock into combat type of the main hand weapons needs to be more atument aimed not wepon aimed.

This I do agree with you, weapon swap do not fit the elementalist.

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I disagree with you on many of your points but i wanted to only point out this rev started the boon meta and was the excuse for pushing more condis and more boon strips.

Did ya ever play WvW before HoT? Did ya ever play in dungeons before HoT? Boons are the very things that made possible dungeon speed clear since ages, just why do you think that players were stacking for there? Boons were what made the DD elementalist so effective pre HoT in PvP and WvW. A steady boon gen was what made the power difference between a PuG raid in WvW and a guild raid. Just how many time did I heard my commanders pushing our raid to make strengthen us before an impact? Just what do you think the N in GWEN was there for? The necromancer only existed in the GWEN meta to destroy the boons on the enemy zerg just before the impact with a nasty well bomb. Just what do you think shoutbow/hambow warrior were used for in PvP before HoT? Just what do you think tempest support was doing in PvP?

Revenant starting the boon meta? What a joke!!! I can swear it, boons have been the very thing that differentiate bad group/raid/player in every game mode since launch.

Back to the point wepon swap on ele would not fit well with atument swap but the current lock into combat type of the main hand weapons needs to be more atument aimed not wepon aimed.

This I do agree with you, weapon swap do not fit the elementalist.

Before HoT wvw was hammer trans because of stab not having stacks less to do with boon meta and more to do with stab being super powered. That and condis where super weak as they could not stack that high and often where not able to stack at all.Reve started the ture boon meta.

Your leaving out an important point that atuments should be defining the skills not the wepon. Ele is not a wepon master it is a mages the weapons are simply used to channel the magic not the other way. Right now the weapons are doing the work not the ele it self. What there needs to be is atuments to set the combat not the wepon. Dagger in fire should be a fire mages using a dagger not a dagger "mages" using fire. This melee lock for dagger is silly and ele is the only class who would suffer the most form such an limitation. In some perverts way ele is more like a war class then a war is due to this wepon combat lock.

OR you have some crazy wepon swap system that can still work with atument swapping.

What we have now dose not work and hold ele back at all points of the game.

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@"Jski.6180" said:Before HoT wvw was hammer trans because of stab not having stacks less to do with boon meta and more to do with stab being super powered. That and condis where super weak as they could not stack that high and often where not able to stack at all.Reve started the ture boon meta.

Seriously, there was already quite some hate for the "boon meta" way before HoT. The changes to stab were significant in the way that it created the shipwar meta, but it doesn't change the fact that a train with 25 might stack would have utterly destroyed a train that don't have these might stacks. The boon meta is not something that came with revenant, it was already there long long before revenant.

Conditions were indeed weak but at the same time they weren't. I'd say they were different, with less potential mre than saying that they were "weak". Revenant only added resistance to a boon meta that was already rampant. In short, it just added more power to something that was already very powerful. But so did chronomancers with alacrity.

Your leaving out an important point that atuments should be defining the skills not the wepon. Ele is not a wepon master it is a mages the weapons are simply used to channel the magic not the other way. Right now the weapons are doing the work not the ele it self. What there needs to be is atuments to set the combat not the wepon. Dagger in fire should be a fire mages using a dagger not a dagger "mages" using fire. This melee lock for dagger is silly and ele is the only class who would suffer the most form such an limitation. In some perverts way ele is more like a war class then a war is due to this wepon combat lock.

OR you have some crazy wepon swap system that can still work with atument swapping.

What we have now dose not work and hold ele back at all points of the game.

The issue Jski, is that it's up to every elementalist to chose it's weapon. You take dagger like you could take scepter or sword or even staff. Staff and scepter are, indeed range weapon but do not suffer any penalty if used at melee range, it's just your skill set which is less adapted to melee fight. Dagger and sword were made with the idea that you'd use them at melee range and thus they've got skills that are designed to be effective at this range. The developpers don't design weapons to be the ultimate weapon for every fight, they design them to fullfill a single purpose. That's a way to balance the game.

Beside, you are still brushing aside all the range possibilities that the elementalist's utility skill sets can grant you. If you chose a primary melee weapon, it's understandable that you'd be less effective at range. Yet less effective don't mean that you don't have any way to fight back, in fact the elementalist have plenty of way to do so that I listed in a previous post.

It's just that for balance's sake no profession should be able to be at 100% for every single kind of situation. Know that all professions are held back in a way or another in all points of the game. The engineer is held back by it's heavy reliance on kit, the necromancer is held back by it's bad weapon skills, the thief is held back by it's intitiative cost, the revenant is held back by it's energy cost (imagine an energy cost on elementalist skills, this would be a nightmare, the worst!)... etc.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:Before HoT wvw was hammer trans because of stab not having stacks less to do with boon meta and more to do with stab being super powered. That and condis where super weak as they could not stack that high and often where not able to stack at all.Reve started the ture boon meta.

Seriously, there was already quite some hate for the "boon meta" way before HoT. The changes to stab were significant in the way that it created the shipwar meta, but it doesn't change the fact that a train with 25 might stack would have utterly destroyed a train that don't have these might stacks. The boon meta is not something that came with revenant, it was already there long long before revenant.

Conditions were indeed weak but at the same time they weren't. I'd say they were different, with less potential mre than saying that they were "weak". Revenant only added resistance to a boon meta that was already rampant. In short, it just added more power to something that was already very powerful. But so did chronomancers with alacrity.

Alacrity was not a boon rev gave out strong boons and made all boon out put duraiton that much stronger that was during a team when there was a major nerft to boon duration. Any way if might is your bar for meta or not meta then its allways been about boons all the time becuse there was no point that you would not empower or blast fire befor a fight well till now at this point every one and every class has nearly 25 stacks of might all the time demening any thing else has for it self or can give out. This is a major point why ele is balanced for 2012 not 2018.

Your leaving out an important point that atuments should be defining the skills not the wepon. Ele is not a wepon master it is a mages the weapons are simply used to channel the magic not the other way. Right now the weapons are doing the work not the ele it self. What there needs to be is atuments to set the combat not the wepon. Dagger in fire should be a fire mages using a dagger not a dagger "mages" using fire. This melee lock for dagger is silly and ele is the only class who would suffer the most form such an limitation. In some perverts way ele is more like a war class then a war is due to this wepon combat lock.

OR you have some crazy wepon swap system that can still work with atument swapping.

What we have now dose not work and hold ele back at all points of the game.

The issue Jski, is that it's up to every elementalist to chose it's weapon. You take dagger like you could take scepter or sword or even staff. Staff and scepter are, indeed range weapon but do not suffer any penalty if used at melee range, it's just your skill set which is less adapted to melee fight. Dagger and sword were made with the idea that you'd use them at melee range and thus they've got skills that are designed to be effective at this range. The developpers don't design weapons to be the ultimate weapon for every fight, they design them to fullfill a single purpose. That's a way to balance the game.

Beside, you are still brushing aside all the range possibilities that the elementalist's utility skill sets can grant you. If you chose a primary melee weapon, it's understandable that you'd be less effective at range. Yet less effective don't mean that you don't have any way to fight back, in fact the elementalist have plenty of way to do so that I listed in a previous post.

It's just that for balance's sake no profession should be able to be at 100% for every single kind of situation. Know that all professions are held back in a way or another in all points of the game. The engineer is held back by it's heavy reliance on kit, the necromancer is held back by it's bad weapon skills, the thief is held back by it's intitiative cost, the revenant is held back by it's energy cost (imagine an energy cost on elementalist skills, this would be a nightmare, the worst!)... etc.

But you can only chose that ONE wepon this is something other classes do not have to do. Its not an issues if you could do every thing with that wepon though your 4 atuments as ele should be doing but the moment you have to ranged attk something with a dagger it all falls apply and you realize your not really a mages holding a dagger your a dagger user who happens to be a mages.

Trait lines and what atument your in should defined an ele way more then what wepon they use. And that why most ppl who play ele HATE that they must run water because ele trait lines have an big impact on how you play the class. As well as wepon has a big impact of your game play and this is all ok but when there only one or 2 viable ways to play things start to becoming boring when you have so many others ways to play but are vastly non viable. Just because something is complicated do not make it good it only makes it impossible to balanced.

Energy is only a path chose or rotation chose much like ele must chose a cd rotation and in a lot of ways time IS a type of cost and ele has much longer cd over other classes so the "imagine" is real life.I would take energy cost with low cd any day over "free" skills with long cd.

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@"Jski.6180" said:Alacrity was not a boon rev gave out strong boons and made all boon out put duraiton that much stronger that was during a team when there was a major nerft to boon duration. Any way if might is your bar for meta or not meta then its allways been about boons all the time becuse there was no point that you would not empower or blast fire befor a fight well till now at this point every one and every class has nearly 25 stacks of might all the time demening any thing else has for it self or can give out. This is a major point why ele is balanced for 2012 not 2018.

You're seriously belitteling the elementalist. The elementalist in proper hand is one of the biggest boon provider of the game. But anyway, boons are boons. And boons were meta way before HoT came. Which was my point. The elementalist is balanced based on what it can do and it can do a lot of things. You think in 2012 professions were balanced? Absolutely not, like I said the elementalist is the fruit of 6 years of balance, they are not "balanced for 2012".

But you can only chose that ONE wepon this is something other classes do not have to do. Its not an issues if you could do every thing with that wepon though your 4 atuments as ele should be doing but the moment you have to ranged attk something with a dagger it all falls apply and you realize your not really a mages holding a dagger your a dagger user who happens to be a mages.

Your utilities are there for that kind of situations. If you are only using dagger skills then the issue come from you and you only. That's one of my concern about the current elementalist players, they tend to use between 1/4th and half of their profession potential. And all your arguments shout to me that it's your issue.

Trait lines and what atument your in should defined an ele way more then what wepon they use. And that why most ppl who play ele HATE that they must run water because ele trait lines have an big impact on how you play the class. As well as wepon has a big impact of your game play and this is all ok but when there only one or 2 viable ways to play things start to becoming boring when you have so many others ways to play but are vastly non viable. Just because something is complicated do not make it good it only makes it impossible to balanced.

Well... what you say here make no sense... You complain that traitlines should define an ele and just after that you complain that you're forced into a traitline because without their game defining traits it's not "viable". Just so you understand:

  • Water is a traitline that define a sustain heavy elementalist and you feel the need to use it at all time.
  • Air (which couldn't be more build defining due to fresh air) is a traitline that define a "bursty" power elementalist.
  • Earth is a traitline that define a resilient elementalist.
  • Fire define an elementalist which focus on steady and growing sustain damage.
  • Arcane define a versatile elementalist.

The problem with what you define as "viable" is that you are blinded by the "meta" which are the "Most Effective Tactic Available". Most elementalists are water dependant by their own addiction. If you look at the water traitline it's far from being great but it allow you to avoid taking some utilities and spend less time in attunments that feel less exciting. But those less exciting attunment can be traited around and made into proper weapon despite what the "meta" say. It's just that there is no will from the players to do so, they jst want their own gameplay to be strengthen and uncousciously force themself even more into the water traitline.

Like I said your utilities are not shackled by the attunments/weapon you are in and they offer you a large array of possibility as well, however you just don't want to see this as a possibility because you think that you are forced to play specific things to be viable. You've created your own prison that you desperatly want to leave yet you stay inside on your own accord. Your horizon is to limited by the prison you've built for yourself. The elementalist is much more than what your prison let you see.

Energy is only a path chose or rotation chose much like ele must chose a cd rotation and in a lot of ways time IS a type of cost and ele has much longer cd over other classes so the "imagine" is real life.I would take energy cost with low cd any day over "free" skills with long cd.

What you don't seem to understand is that, while contrary to the beliefs elementalist don't have a lot more skills than other, most of it's skills are way more performant than other professions skills. The "optimal" rotations make use of this fact. Most professions are stuck at trying to make the best out of their auto attack while the elementalist, which have the same level of performance with it's auto attack than other, make the best out of it's potent skills.

Adding an energy cost to elementalist's skills would just restrain the elementalist into relying on their auto attack a lot more. And honnestly, the elementalists skills are not on a longer cool down than other professions, they are mostly in the same range as other profession skills and on top of that their attunments don't share a 10 second CD.

Nope, really it's sad that you got such a narrow point of view on this profession that you admitedly "main".

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Jski.6180

Jski.6180

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:Alacrity was not a boon rev gave out strong boons and made all boon out put duraiton that much stronger that was during a team when there was a major nerft to boon duration. Any way if might is your bar for meta or not meta then its allways been about boons all the time becuse there was no point that you would not empower or blast fire befor a fight well till now at this point every one and every class has nearly 25 stacks of might all the time demening any thing else has for it self or can give out. This is a major point why ele is balanced for 2012 not 2018.

You're seriously belitteling the elementalist. The elementalist in proper hand is one of the biggest boon provider of the game. But anyway, boons are boons. And boons were meta way before HoT came. Which was my point. The elementalist is balanced based on what it can do and it can do a lot of things. You think in 2012 professions were balanced? Absolutely not, like I said the elementalist is the fruit of 6 years of balance, they are not "balanced for 2012".

Well at one point ele was a good boon out put class in 2012 but after that other classes got more boons out put as well as having better self boons making ele boons much more worthless over all.

But you can only chose that ONE wepon this is something other classes do not have to do. Its not an issues if you could do every thing with that wepon though your 4 atuments as ele should be doing but the moment you have to ranged attk something with a dagger it all falls apply and you realize your not really a mages holding a dagger your a dagger user who happens to be a mages.

Your utilities are there for that kind of situations. If you are only using dagger skills then the issue come from you and you only. That's one of my concern about the current elementalist players, they tend to use between 1/4th and half of their profession potential. And all your arguments shout to me that it's your issue.

A frost bow is not enofe to make up for the ranged lost for using dagger on ele. Maybe if it was a kit like eng that why ele is the only class that is turly locked into a way of playing due to no wepon swap.

Trait lines and what atument your in should defined an ele way more then what wepon they use. And that why most ppl who play ele HATE that they must run water because ele trait lines have an big impact on how you play the class. As well as wepon has a big impact of your game play and this is all ok but when there only one or 2 viable ways to play things start to becoming boring when you have so many others ways to play but are vastly non viable. Just because something is complicated do not make it good it only makes it impossible to balanced.

Well... what you say here make no sense... You complain that traitlines should define an ele and just after that you complain that you're forced into a traitline because without their game defining traits it's not "viable". Just so you understand:
  • Water is a traitline that define a sustain heavy elementalist and
    you
    feel the need to use it at all time.
  • Air (which couldn't be more build defining due to fresh air) is a traitline that define a "bursty" power elementalist.
  • Earth is a traitline that define a resilient elementalist.
  • Fire define an elementalist which focus on steady and growing sustain damage.
  • Arcane define a versatile elementalist.

Water is the ture def support line.Air is the higher crit dmg lineEarth is the phical def line only when in earth.Fire line is for higher power and more spike dmg when in fire.Arcane line is oddly a condi soft cc line or a burst line.

The problem with what you define as "viable" is that you are blinded by the "meta" which are the "Most Effective Tactic Available". Most elementalists are water dependant by their own addiction. If you look at the water traitline it's far from being great but it allow you to avoid taking some utilities and spend less time in attunments that feel less exciting. But those less exciting attunment can be traited around and made into proper weapon despite what the "meta" say. It's just that there is no will from the players to do so, they jst want their own gameplay to be strengthen and uncousciously force themself even more into the water traitline.

Any def that dose not deal with soft cc or condis in gw2 is NOT a def line.

Like I said your utilities are not shackled by the attunments/weapon you are in and they offer you a large array of possibility as well, however you just don't want to see this as a possibility because you think that you are forced to play specific things to be viable. You've created your own prison that you desperatly want to leave yet you stay inside on your own accord. Your horizon is to limited by the prison you've built for yourself. The elementalist is much more than what your prison let you see.

Energy is only a path chose or rotation chose much like ele must chose a cd rotation and in a lot of ways time IS a type of cost and ele has much longer cd over other classes so the "imagine" is real life.I would take energy cost with low cd any day over "free" skills with long cd.

What you don't seem to understand is that, while contrary to the beliefs elementalist don't have a lot more skills than other, most of it's skills are way more performant than other professions skills. The "optimal" rotations make use of this fact. Most professions are stuck at trying to make the best out of their auto attack while the elementalist, which have the same level of performance with it's auto attack than other, make the best out of it's potent skills.

Adding an energy cost to elementalist's skills would just restrain the elementalist into relying on their auto attack a lot more. And honnestly, the elementalists skills are not on a longer cool down than other professions, they are mostly in the same range as other profession skills and on top of that their attunments don't share a 10 second CD.

If ele had energy cost and no long cd when ele could spam its big hits over and over and not waist its time with its lesser aoe like eruption or ice spike. The dmg out put from ele would be far better.Nope, really it's sad that you got such a narrow point of view on this profession that you admitedly "main".

My point of view is to make it a viable profession for 2018 and have real updates to its effect that will give it realty boons for support if its going to support and real dmg tools like unblockables if its going to do dmg. Ele is made for 2012 true and true and ppl are trapped in that mind set such as your self that nothing should change on ele to keep it up to the other classes out put at any cost. Here a good example is Rock Solid realty made for stacking stab? A 2 sec duration 1 stack stab on swaping to earth at a 240 ranged is that real balanced to today current meta?

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Mithos.9023

Mithos.9023

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An interesting topic. It never occurred to me, how much of a disadvantage having no weapon swap for ele is. Having 20 skill per weapon might be versatile but only versatile at the weapon specific distance. You are always range locked. Hmm this might be the reason why I can't get on good terms with sword. The moment someone is focusing you from range it is incredible hard to do something or turn the fight around, even with the gap closing skills in mind.But even so weapon swap doesn't seem to be the answer to me. Also, I would like to have the out of combat option that was already discussed many times, but that is a different topic.The best way would be to have either some ranged options on weapons like sword or dagger. The other option would be conjures, but conjures are currently not an option with how many problems they have. Not to mention that ele was always a class heavy reliant on slot skills, so slotting a conjured is troublesome to begin with.

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