Account suspension discussion [merged]

[Sky Fell.7604]

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

@"Sky Fell.7604" said:It's a name. It would be the same program if it was called Disassembler Engine.

But it's not called that. It's called Cheat Engine. Its name pretty much tells and sells what it's meant to do. Besides, if players had stopped their cheating programs properly, they wouldn't have gotten suspended. Too bad they didn't.

See how that works?

I... I don't think that's how things work.

I can't call a paper towel I wrote DIPLOMA on a degree from Harvard and somehow have graduated from an Ivy League school.

Also, Cheat Engine isn't spyware. What ANET put on our computers is spyware. It only hooks into the process you tell it to.

Again, bans are good. 4/5 programs on that list are ONLY used for cheating in GW2. Cheat Engine is a different beast altogether.

[Guest]

Cheat Engine is not designed to change or modify GW2. It could be used for it.

Again, you're trying to hairsplit. It doesn't say "exclusively" or "solely" designed to change or modify GW2. Does its design allow you to do this? Yes. Therefore it's not allowed.

[Kain Francois.4328]

More important than the banwave is whether or not ANET sees you playing HuniePop.exe? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@Healix.5819 Wrong. I don't know much about CheatEngine. So I checked with various videos on YouTube. Sure enough, you can find them using the program to cheat in the game. Not going to spell it out or link those videos given their nature, but anyone who doubts it can look for themselves.

[TexZero.7910]

@Healix.5819 said:

@"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:Let me get this right . . . people have to told not to run a program called CheatEngine while playing Guild Wars 2 now?

The only reason CheatEngine was targeted was because of its name. It's a legitimate debugging tool, not just for cheating. There's plenty of other tools like this that ArenaNet could have banned and they barely touched on the actual hack tools. To make this more obvious, imagine if they tried to stop bots by banning AutoHotKey. If ArenaNet wasn't going to actually verify how the software was being used, then they should have only targeted software that was specific to hacking in GW2. The joke is them trying to scare people while knowing that there would be false positives. They will no doubt end up reversing bans involving CheatEngine specifically with no other proof.

Or

And i know this is just too logical to be a real reason for them to target cheat engine.....But it can and has been used to "Cheat".

I know it's just too obvious a conclusion that a program with cheat in the name might be used for cheating. But hey, it's almost like it was primarily designed to do just that.

[Linken.6345]

@"Legit Prep In.5893" said:https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8c2j0y/a_technical_analysis_of_the_spyware_arena_used/+https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/476255#Comment_476255

= Anet banned you because you had CheatEngine OPENED ( NOT CONNECTED WITH GW2 NOR USED ON IT, JUST HAVE IT RUNNING while you played in March.)

==> They banned a lot of accounts falsely. CE is by far one of the most commonly used tools out there.

Admit it, reverse the CE bans and everyone is fine. The other tools obvioulsy are meant for GW2. although "MMOMINION" is also made for ffxiv, so if one botted ffxiv and not gw2, you still falsely banned them.

Well done amateurs.

never heard of either cheatengine or mmominion.

[Sky Fell.7604]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Healix.5819 said:

@"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:Let me get this right . . . people have to told not to run a program called CheatEngine while playing Guild Wars 2 now?

The only reason CheatEngine was targeted was because of its name. It's a legitimate debugging tool, not just for cheating. There's plenty of other tools like this that ArenaNet could have banned and they barely touched on the actual hack tools. To make this more obvious, imagine if they tried to stop bots by banning AutoHotKey. If ArenaNet wasn't going to actually verify how the software was being used, then they should have only targeted software that was specific to hacking in GW2. The joke is them trying to scare people while knowing that there would be false positives. They will no doubt end up reversing bans involving CheatEngine specifically with no other proof.

Or

And i know this is just too logical to be a real reason for them to target cheat engine.....But it can and has been used to "Cheat".

I know it's just too obvious a conclusion that a program with cheat in the name might be used for cheating. But hey, it's almost like it was primarily designed to do just that.

A baseball bat is used for a game, but can also be used to bludgeon someone to death.

I don't see myself being carted off to jail for having one in my garage.

[CETheLucid.3964]

@Kain Francois.4328 said:More important than the banwave is whether or not ANET sees you playing HuniePop.exe? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Only guy asking the real questions here

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@Sky Fell.7604 said:

A baseball bat is used for a game, but can also be used to bludgeon someone to death.

I don't see myself being carted off to jail for having one in my garage.

Seriously . . . don't go there. I hope no one needs to explain why.

[Healix.5819]

@"TexZero.7910" said:And i know this is just too logical to be a real reason for them to target cheat engine.....But it can and has been used to "Cheat".

There are plenty of other tools identical to CheatEngine, but marketed for debugging, whereas CE is free and more common. A lot of software could potentially be used for cheating, including PowerShell built-in to Windows. Targeting generic software is simply a dumb move, so they will no doubt end up reversing this one.

[Deihnyx.6318]

@Sky Fell.7604 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Healix.5819 said:

@"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:Let me get this right . . . people have to told not to run a program called CheatEngine while playing Guild Wars 2 now?

The only reason CheatEngine was targeted was because of its name. It's a legitimate debugging tool, not just for cheating. There's plenty of other tools like this that ArenaNet could have banned and they barely touched on the actual hack tools. To make this more obvious, imagine if they tried to stop bots by banning AutoHotKey. If ArenaNet wasn't going to actually verify how the software was being used, then they should have only targeted software that was specific to hacking in GW2. The joke is them trying to scare people while knowing that there would be false positives. They will no doubt end up reversing bans involving CheatEngine specifically with no other proof.

Or

And i know this is just too logical to be a real reason for them to target cheat engine.....But it can and has been used to "Cheat".

I know it's just too obvious a conclusion that a program with cheat in the name might be used for cheating. But hey, it's almost like it was primarily designed to do just that.

A baseball bat is used for a game, but can also be used to bludgeon someone to death.

I don't see myself being carted off to jail for having one in my garage.Almost sad the gun argument wasn't used there.

But no... a cheating program is way too specific. And usually only people who actually know what they're doing use them, so they should know what to do and not do with them. If it messes around with memory, don't leave it on if you play an online game, feels like common sense to me :/

[TexZero.7910]

@Sky Fell.7604 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Healix.5819 said:

@"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:Let me get this right . . . people have to told not to run a program called CheatEngine while playing Guild Wars 2 now?

The only reason CheatEngine was targeted was because of its name. It's a legitimate debugging tool, not just for cheating. There's plenty of other tools like this that ArenaNet could have banned and they barely touched on the actual hack tools. To make this more obvious, imagine if they tried to stop bots by banning AutoHotKey. If ArenaNet wasn't going to actually verify how the software was being used, then they should have only targeted software that was specific to hacking in GW2. The joke is them trying to scare people while knowing that there would be false positives. They will no doubt end up reversing bans involving CheatEngine specifically with no other proof.

Or

And i know this is just too logical to be a real reason for them to target cheat engine.....But it can and has been used to "Cheat".

I know it's just too obvious a conclusion that a program with cheat in the name might be used for cheating. But hey, it's almost like it was primarily designed to do just that.

A baseball bat is used for a game, but can also be used to bludgeon someone to death.

I don't see myself being carted off to jail for having one in my garage.

You might be if there happened to be a death nearby that was cause by bluntforce trauma by a cylindrical like object be it wood or steel.Now then see how this works ?

Anet had cause, they searched and they acted.Only this time they don't need anything more than the legal equivalent of "More likely than not". You tell me, if a tool name cheat engine, whose primary function is to cheat....would look more probably than not when it comes to cheating in a game.

[Sojourner.4621]

@"Legit Prep In.5893" said:https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8c2j0y/a_technical_analysis_of_the_spyware_arena_used/+https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/476255#Comment_476255

= Anet banned you because you had CheatEngine OPENED ( NOT CONNECTED WITH GW2 NOR USED ON IT, JUST HAVE IT RUNNING while you played in March.)

==> They banned a lot of accounts falsely. CE is by far one of the most commonly used tools out there.

Admit it, reverse the CE bans and everyone is fine. The other tools obvioulsy are meant for GW2. although "MMOMINION" is also made for ffxiv, so if one botted ffxiv and not gw2, you still falsely banned them.

Well done amateurs.

Not even just have it running, have it running for significant periods of time at the same time as GW2 across multiple weeks. If it was just on for a few minutes in the background it won't get you banned. I also have zero issues with banning people just for having MMOMinion open (Again for significant portions of play time on GW2), even if it can be used for other MMOs as well. CE has other constructive uses than JUST cheating at games despite what the name might imply, and I know plenty of software security folks who use it for their jobs, so there is some grounds there for debate at least, but I doubt that THAT many of the bans were actually undeserved. How often have we seen people claim on the forums they never cheated and only ran macros for music, only to have it shown that they were banned for something else entirely, like botting or afk farming?

[Ashen.2907]

@"Kunzaito.8169" said:

Cheat Engine is not designed to change or modify GW2. It

could

be used for it.

Again, you're trying to hairsplit. It doesn't say "exclusively" or "solely" designed to change or modify GW2. Does its design allow you to do this? Yes. Therefore it's not allowed.

Sufficient skill at programming, particularly including experience with game development, might allow one to modify GW2.

All programmers, game devs, and the like should be banned from GW2?

[Sky Fell.7604]

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:@Healix.5819 Wrong. I don't know much about CheatEngine. So I checked with various videos on YouTube. Sure enough, you can find them using the program to cheat in the game. Not going to spell it out or link those videos given their nature, but anyone who doubts it can look for themselves.

You're not a developer or programmer. I wouldn't expect you to, and that's 100% fine. I can totally see WHY you're making this assumption, but that doesn't make you any less misled.

Yes, cheat engine is used for cheating. In TONS of games.

Its also used for modding.Debugging.Reading actively used memory.Its great for loading in a virtual machine and pulling apart a virus to see how it works.

[Vault Girl.6792]

@"Kunzaito.8169" said:

Cheat Engine is not designed to change or modify GW2. It

could

be used for it.

Again, you're trying to hairsplit. It doesn't say "exclusively" or "solely" designed to change or modify GW2. Does its design allow you to do this? Yes. Therefore it's not allowed.

A lot of things allow to modify memory. Should people be also banned for running programs in C or other languages while playing GW2, because they potentially could do out of bounds access and modify something?But even if Anet considers it as a violation, why would they just ban people for 6 months without checking whether they were cheating? There are more severe violations that do not lead to this.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@Sky Fell.7604 said:

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:@Healix.5819

Wrong. I don't know much about CheatEngine.

So I checked with various videos on YouTube. Sure enough, you can find them using the program to cheat in the game. Not going to spell it out or link those videos given their nature, but anyone who doubts it can look for themselves.

You're not a developer or programmer. I wouldn't expect you to, and that's 100% fine. I can totally see WHY you're making this assumption, but that doesn't make you any less misled.

Yes, cheat engine is used for cheating. In TONS of games.

Its also used for modding.Debugging.Reading actively used memory.Its great for loading in a virtual machine and pulling apart a virus to see how it works.

And it's also used to cheat in this game. No, I'm not a developer or programmer. But I do have Google and common sense. And both told me that Cheat Engine is also used to cheat in games like this one.

[Vegeta.9670]

I like how no trading post bots were detected ._.

[TexZero.7910]

@Healix.5819 said:

@"TexZero.7910" said:And i know this is just too logical to be a real reason for them to target cheat engine.....But it can and has been used to "Cheat".

There are plenty of other tools identical to CheatEngine, but marketed for debugging, whereas CE is free and more common. A lot of software could potentially be used for cheating, including PowerShell built-in to Windows. Targeting generic software is simply a dumb move, so they will no doubt end up reversing this one.

Again, im sure there's more than one way to cheat.But you want a guaranteed way to get banned ? Use a tool whose sole function and design was predicated around cheating and has a long storied history of doing just that in many games.

They won't reverse it.

[Sky Fell.7604]

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

@Sky Fell.7604 said:

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:@Healix.5819

Wrong. I don't know much about CheatEngine.

So I checked with various videos on YouTube. Sure enough, you can find them using the program to cheat in the game. Not going to spell it out or link those videos given their nature, but anyone who doubts it can look for themselves.

You're not a developer or programmer. I wouldn't expect you to, and that's 100% fine. I can totally see WHY you're making this assumption, but that doesn't make you any less misled.

Yes, cheat engine is used for cheating. In TONS of games.

Its also used for modding.Debugging.Reading actively used memory.Its great for loading in a virtual machine and pulling apart a virus to see how it works.

And it's also used to cheat in this game. No, I'm not a developer or programmer. But I do have Google and common sense. And both told me that Cheat Engine is also used to cheat in games like this one.

And people who use it to cheat here SHOULD be banned.

The issue is Anet didn't check for that. Just that it was running.

Anet has TONS of programmers who are way better than me. There are ways to see if cheat engine is hooked into the GW2 process or if memory is being modified or commands are being injected. That's how almost every other anti-cheat works.

They were just too lazy to, or didn't dedicate the proper resources.

[Guest]

@Vault Girl.6792 said:A lot of things allow to modify memory. Should people be also banned for running programs in C or other languages while playing GW2, because they potentially could do out of bounds access and modify something?But even if Anet considers it as a violation, why would they just ban people for 6 months without checking whether they were cheating? There are more severe violations that do not lead to this.

I dunno, it's not up to me. It's up to ANet. It's their game on their servers. This is how they choose to check for cheating, whether you like it or not. You showed a pattern of use with a program that is capable of cheating at their game that convinced them a ban was warranted.

Why don't they ban every program that can do this? Maybe they should. Again, I dunno. It's not up to me, it's up to them. Is it fair? Maybe not, but again, that's not relevant. You did a version of the thing they said not to do and you happened to be one of the ones that got caught.

As many other people have pointed out, if you are running these programs that have legitimate uses for other applications in addition to cheating at GW2, fine. Just don't run them at the same time as GW2! Really not a hard concept.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@Sky Fell.7604 said:

And people who use it to cheat here SHOULD be banned.

The issue is Anet didn't check for that. Just that it was running.

Anet has TONS of programmers who are way better than me. There are ways to see if cheat engine is hooked into the GW2 process or if memory is being modified or commands are being injected. That's how almost every other anti-cheat works.

They were just too lazy to, or didn't dedicate the proper resources.

Here's an easy fix: don't run a known cheat program on your computer while playing an MMO.

[Legit Prep In.5893]

You CANNOT cheat with CheatEngine in GW2 just because its name sais "cheat". If you have no idea what this tool is about and/or for, I suggest you just don't comment here.

[Rhapsedy.1569]

@Sky Fell.7604 said:

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:@"Healix.5819"

Wrong. I don't know much about CheatEngine.

So I checked with various videos on YouTube. Sure enough, you can find them using the program to cheat in the game. Not going to spell it out or link those videos given their nature, but anyone who doubts it can look for themselves.

You're not a developer or programmer. I wouldn't expect you to, and that's 100% fine. I can totally see WHY you're making this assumption, but that doesn't make you any less misled.

Yes, cheat engine is used for cheating. In TONS of games.

Its also used for modding.Debugging.Reading actively used memory.Its great for loading in a virtual machine and pulling apart a virus to see how it works.

Why do you need to Mod GW2? Is that not cheating?Why would you need to debug GW2? Is that not for the developers?Reading actively used memory. - This is taken directly from CheatEngines website - It comes with a memory scanner to quickly scan for variables used within a game and allow you to change them.Why do you need to pull apart GW2's coding? To learn how to hack it better?

I could, but I will not, post videos of other players using CheatEngine in GW2. If you had it on your computer, running "In the background", too bad. You made a mistake and got caught. You were sent home to think about what you have done. See you in 6 months.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@"Legit Prep In.5893" said:You CANNOT cheat with CheatEngine in GW2 just because its name sais "cheat". If you have no idea what this tool is about and/or for, I suggest you just don't comment here.

Just watched a three-minute video about Cheat Engine on YouTube where this Charr flew around, speed ran, and used other hacks that shows otherwise.