Is the Deep Sea Dragon already dead?

[Eekasqueak.7850]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:I dunno, even from how we took Zhaitan down he seemed to be the weakest if the elder dragons. None of the others are vulnerable to conventional weapons as far as we know. I think the relationship is size = power of dragon = how much territory they can hold.

Zhaitan wasn't really weak to conventional weapons. The weapons we used were based off of both Kudu's research (which in turn was based off of Snaff's) on Elder Dragon magics, as well as Gorr's research which utilized the dragon corruption process, using the same process on risen/Zhaitan, to poison the magic to them.

We basically starved Zhaitan, then force fed him magical cyanide.

Where was that said? If it was that then they weren't very clear about it.

[Oglaf.1074]

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:I dunno, even from how we took Zhaitan down he seemed to be the weakest if the elder dragons. None of the others are vulnerable to conventional weapons as far as we know. I think the relationship is size = power of dragon = how much territory they can hold.

Mordry got killed by getting himself impaled by a friggin’ tree stump. That makes the way we took out Zhaitan look like StarTrek in comparison..!

[Eekasqueak.7850]

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:I dunno, even from how we took Zhaitan down he seemed to be the weakest if the elder dragons. None of the others are vulnerable to conventional weapons as far as we know. I think the relationship is size = power of dragon = how much territory they can hold.

Mordry got killed by getting himself impaled by a friggin’ tree stump. That makes the way we took out Zhaitan look like StarTrek in comparison..!

In the story we kill him by entering his mind which was his "weakness" you're thinking of the mouth of mordremoth.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:I dunno, even from how we took Zhaitan down he seemed to be the weakest if the elder dragons. None of the others are vulnerable to conventional weapons as far as we know. I think the relationship is size = power of dragon = how much territory they can hold.

Mordry got killed by getting himself impaled by a friggin’ tree stump. That makes the way we took out Zhaitan look like StarTrek in comparison..!

In the story we kill him by entering his mind which was his "weakness" you're thinking of the mouth of mordremoth.

The Mouth of Mordremoth was Mordremoth - or specifically, his physical body. Even ignoring the NPCs telling us that the Mouth of Mordremoth was the Elder Dragon in Dragon's Stand, it got brought up again, more directly, in Path of Fire by the Commander telling cadets in Vabbi that Mordremoth died by impaling itself on a tree (though this is only half true).

Besides, we literally see Mordremoth survive us "killing his mind" in the Dream of Dreams when he goes into Trahearne.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:I dunno, even from how we took Zhaitan down he seemed to be the weakest if the elder dragons. None of the others are vulnerable to conventional weapons as far as we know. I think the relationship is size = power of dragon = how much territory they can hold.

Mordry got killed by getting himself impaled by a friggin’ tree stump. That makes the way we took out Zhaitan look like StarTrek in comparison..!

In the story we kill him by entering his mind which was his "weakness" you're thinking of the mouth of mordremoth.

The Mouth of Mordremoth

was

Mordremoth - or specifically, his physical body. Even ignoring the NPCs telling us that the Mouth of Mordremoth was the Elder Dragon in Dragon's Stand, it got brought up again, more directly, in Path of Fire by the Commander telling cadets in Vabbi that Mordremoth died by impaling itself on a tree (though this is only half true).

Besides, we literally see Mordremoth survive us "killing his mind" in the Dream of Dreams when he goes into Trahearne.

Killing Trahearne is what lands the deathblow though, Mordremoth's body is described as being the entire jungle.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

But we also know that the jungle is not even Mordremoth's corruption, so we know that to be false in a literal sense. In Season 2, Taimi theorized that some of the vines (not all, just some) that we saw were part of Mordremoth, and with the Mouth of Mordremoth we see the vines as part of its body, as if growing from and around the body.

The two statements are not necessarily mutually exclusive, if the vines, which can be seen throughout the jungle (and the continent), stem from Mordremoth's physical body.

[crepuscular.9047]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:in Path of Fire by the Commander telling cadets in Vabbi that Mordremoth died by impaling itself on a tree (though this is only half true).

or the tree is Trahearne in the figurative sense?

[Eekasqueak.7850]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:But we also know that the jungle is not even Mordremoth's corruption, so we know that to be false in a literal sense. In Season 2, Taimi theorized that some of the vines (not all, just some) that we saw were part of Mordremoth, and with the Mouth of Mordremoth we see the vines as part of its body, as if growing from and around the body.

The two statements are not necessarily mutually exclusive, if the vines, which can be seen throughout the jungle (and the continent), stem from Mordremoth's physical body.

The jungle isn't his corruption, but he assimilated it to be apart of him. It is explicitly stated though that he pretty much -is- the jungle. He's a hivemind that extends across the whole thing, the mouth was only a specific part of him. An extension as much as the mouth of Zhaitan was to him. I don't think it's a coincidence we've seen that naming convention used before.

[Oglaf.1074]

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:in Path of Fire by the Commander telling cadets in Vabbi that Mordremoth died by impaling itself on a tree (though this is only half true).

or the tree is Trahearne in the figurative sense?

That’s... a bit of a stretch. Lol.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:But we also know that the jungle is not even Mordremoth's corruption, so we know that to be false in a literal sense. In Season 2, Taimi theorized that some of the vines (not all, just some) that we saw were part of Mordremoth, and with the Mouth of Mordremoth we see the vines as part of its body, as if growing from and around the body.

The two statements are not necessarily mutually exclusive, if the vines, which can be seen throughout the jungle (and the continent), stem from Mordremoth's physical body.

The jungle isn't his corruption, but he assimilated it to be apart of him. It is explicitly stated though that he pretty much -is- the jungle. He's a hivemind that extends across the whole thing, the mouth was only a specific part of him. An extension as much as the mouth of Zhaitan was to him. I don't think it's a coincidence we've seen that naming convention used before.

He hasn't assimilated the jungle at all. He's slowly corrupting it, turning it into his corruption. But the entire jungle isn't there yet.

Canach says:

Canach: It's not one thing out here, Braham. It's everything!Canach: The entire time we were traversing this jungle, we were afoot on its back. Like fleas on a hound.

Trahearne says:

Trahearne: It's too late. I know—I am part of the jungle dragon now. It is everywhere.Braham: So how do we kill it? Burn every field and fell every forest?Trahearne: No...it can't be defeated that way. It'll just grow back. Its roots have spread too far, too deep.

Nowhere does it say "Mordremoth is the jungle". It says "Mordremoth is everywhere". That we've been atop of Mordremoth while in the jungle. There's a pretty big difference. But neither line was new because in Season 2 Taimi says:

Commander: The vines? So, you mean Mordremoth's corruption.Taimi: Not exactly. It's my belief that these vines we're seeing are coming directly from the dragon, spreading underground across Tyria. It's not just corruption. It's him.Commander: And the free-moving ones aboveground?Taimi: As far as I can tell, they're corrupted. And spreading. But our primary concern is the waypoint situation. If that gets worse, we could be in serious trouble.

All this says is that the "vines are part of / coming from Mordremoth". Not that Mordremoth is the jungle, just that he has spread across the jungle (and continent). And this matches the Mouth of Mordremoth's visual appearance which has vines growing out and around it.

Not to mention that Mordremoth has this "shadow face" which can be seen by sylvari throughout Bitter Harvest and by all players throughout Hearts and Minds, which has the exact same appearance as the Mouth of Mordremoth's head. This is the real "mind of Mordremoth" not that bipedal avatar that he created to fight us.

In Dragon's Stand, we're told: "Yes. Almost forgot. Then we have to slay an Elder Dragon." at the end of the meta. We fight the Mouth of Mordremoth then.

Not to mention that the Mouth of Mordremoth speaks in the same manner with the same voice as Mordremoth, which is never done among any dragon minion or champion. And as mentioned, in Vabbi, the Commander tells cadets that Mordremoth died by impaling itself on a tree. Which is how the Mouth of Mordremoth died.

It should be noted that it's hinted by an Anet artist that the Spitfires, which look like miniature Mouths of Mordremoth, are also part of Mordremoth as said artist calls calls them "Mordremoth Lesser Heads".

Combining everything, especially Trahearne's wording of "It'll just grow back." and the different dialogues with Laranthir depending on whether you completed Hearts and Minds yet or not, and the fact we know the battle happens at the same time as Hearts and Minds, implies to me that Mordremoth is a multi-headed serpent with one main head and many minor heads, and that the Mouth of Mordremoth is actually killed three times (at least), and that Mordremoth "regrows" the Mouth of Mordremoth head, perhaps even by growing a surviving Spitfires into a new Mouth.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:But we also know that the jungle is not even Mordremoth's corruption, so we know that to be false in a literal sense. In Season 2, Taimi theorized that some of the vines (not all, just some) that we saw were part of Mordremoth, and with the Mouth of Mordremoth we see the vines as part of its body, as if growing from and around the body.

The two statements are not necessarily mutually exclusive, if the vines, which can be seen throughout the jungle (and the continent), stem from Mordremoth's physical body.

The jungle isn't his corruption, but he assimilated it to be apart of him. It is explicitly stated though that he pretty much -is- the jungle. He's a hivemind that extends across the whole thing, the mouth was only a specific part of him. An extension as much as the mouth of Zhaitan was to him. I don't think it's a coincidence we've seen that naming convention used before.

He hasn't assimilated the jungle at all. He's slowly corrupting it, turning it into his corruption. But the entire jungle isn't there yet.

Canach says:

Canach: It's not one thing out here, Braham. It's everything!Canach: The entire time we were traversing this jungle, we were afoot on its back. Like fleas on a hound.

Trahearne says:

Trahearne: It's too late. I know—I am part of the jungle dragon now. It is everywhere.Braham: So how do we kill it? Burn every field and fell every forest?Trahearne: No...it can't be defeated that way. It'll just grow back. Its roots have spread too far, too deep.

Nowhere does it say "Mordremoth is the jungle". It says "Mordremoth is everywhere". That we've been atop of Mordremoth while in the jungle. There's a pretty big difference. But neither line was new because in Season 2 Taimi says:

Commander: The vines? So, you mean Mordremoth's corruption.Taimi: Not exactly. It's my belief that these vines we're seeing are coming directly from the dragon, spreading underground across Tyria. It's not just corruption. It's him.Commander: And the free-moving ones aboveground?Taimi: As far as I can tell, they're corrupted. And spreading. But our primary concern is the waypoint situation. If that gets worse, we could be in serious trouble.

All this says is that the "vines are part of / coming from Mordremoth". Not that Mordremoth is the jungle, just that he has spread across the jungle (and continent). And this matches the Mouth of Mordremoth's visual appearance which has vines growing out and around it.

Not to mention that Mordremoth has this "shadow face" which can be seen by sylvari throughout Bitter Harvest and by all players throughout Hearts and Minds, which has the exact same appearance as the Mouth of Mordremoth's head. This is the real "mind of Mordremoth" not that bipedal avatar that he created to fight us.

In Dragon's Stand, we're told:

"Yes. Almost forgot. Then we have to slay an Elder Dragon."

at the end of the meta. We fight the Mouth of Mordremoth then.

Not to mention that the Mouth of Mordremoth speaks in the same manner with the same voice as Mordremoth, which is never done among any dragon minion or champion. And as mentioned, in Vabbi, the Commander tells cadets that Mordremoth died by impaling itself on a tree. Which is how the Mouth of Mordremoth died.

It should be noted that

it's hinted by an Anet artist

that the Spitfires, which look like miniature Mouths of Mordremoth, are also part of Mordremoth as said artist calls calls them "Mordremoth Lesser Heads".

Combining everything, especially Trahearne's wording of "It'll just grow back." and the different dialogues with Laranthir depending on whether you completed Hearts and Minds yet or not, and the fact we know the battle happens at the same time as Hearts and Minds, implies to me that Mordremoth is a multi-headed serpent with one main head and many minor heads, and that the Mouth of Mordremoth is actually killed three times (at least), and that Mordremoth "regrows" the Mouth of Mordremoth head, perhaps even by growing a surviving Spitfires into a new Mouth.

What evidence is there that the eyes and mouths of Zhaitan didn't speak with his voice? Besides that only lends to the theory that the mouth of mordremoth is only part of him, which is what I've been saying.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:But we also know that the jungle is not even Mordremoth's corruption, so we know that to be false in a literal sense. In Season 2, Taimi theorized that some of the vines (not all, just some) that we saw were part of Mordremoth, and with the Mouth of Mordremoth we see the vines as part of its body, as if growing from and around the body.

The two statements are not necessarily mutually exclusive, if the vines, which can be seen throughout the jungle (and the continent), stem from Mordremoth's physical body.

The jungle isn't his corruption, but he assimilated it to be apart of him. It is explicitly stated though that he pretty much -is- the jungle. He's a hivemind that extends across the whole thing, the mouth was only a specific part of him. An extension as much as the mouth of Zhaitan was to him. I don't think it's a coincidence we've seen that naming convention used before.

He hasn't assimilated the jungle at all. He's slowly corrupting it, turning it into his corruption. But the entire jungle isn't there yet.

Canach says:

Canach: It's not one thing out here, Braham. It's everything!Canach: The entire time we were traversing this jungle, we were afoot on its back. Like fleas on a hound.

Trahearne says:

Trahearne: It's too late. I know—I am part of the jungle dragon now. It is everywhere.Braham: So how do we kill it? Burn every field and fell every forest?Trahearne: No...it can't be defeated that way. It'll just grow back. Its roots have spread too far, too deep.

Nowhere does it say "Mordremoth is the jungle". It says "Mordremoth is everywhere". That we've been atop of Mordremoth while in the jungle. There's a pretty big difference. But neither line was new because in Season 2 Taimi says:

Commander: The vines? So, you mean Mordremoth's corruption.Taimi: Not exactly. It's my belief that these vines we're seeing are coming directly from the dragon, spreading underground across Tyria. It's not just corruption. It's him.Commander: And the free-moving ones aboveground?Taimi: As far as I can tell, they're corrupted. And spreading. But our primary concern is the waypoint situation. If that gets worse, we could be in serious trouble.

All this says is that the "vines are part of / coming from Mordremoth". Not that Mordremoth is the jungle, just that he has spread across the jungle (and continent). And this matches the Mouth of Mordremoth's visual appearance which has vines growing out and around it.

Not to mention that Mordremoth has this "shadow face" which can be seen by sylvari throughout Bitter Harvest and by all players throughout Hearts and Minds, which has the exact same appearance as the Mouth of Mordremoth's head. This is the real "mind of Mordremoth" not that bipedal avatar that he created to fight us.

In Dragon's Stand, we're told:

"Yes. Almost forgot. Then we have to slay an Elder Dragon."

at the end of the meta. We fight the Mouth of Mordremoth then.

Not to mention that the Mouth of Mordremoth speaks in the same manner with the same voice as Mordremoth, which is never done among any dragon minion or champion. And as mentioned, in Vabbi, the Commander tells cadets that Mordremoth died by impaling itself on a tree. Which is how the Mouth of Mordremoth died.

It should be noted that

it's hinted by an Anet artist

that the Spitfires, which look like miniature Mouths of Mordremoth, are also part of Mordremoth as said artist calls calls them "Mordremoth Lesser Heads".

Combining everything, especially Trahearne's wording of "It'll just grow back." and the different dialogues with Laranthir depending on whether you completed Hearts and Minds yet or not, and the fact we know the battle happens at the same time as Hearts and Minds, implies to me that Mordremoth is a multi-headed serpent with one main head and many minor heads, and that the Mouth of Mordremoth is actually killed three times (at least), and that Mordremoth "regrows" the Mouth of Mordremoth head, perhaps even by growing a surviving Spitfires into a new Mouth.

What evidence is there that the eyes and mouths of Zhaitan didn't speak with his voice? Besides that only lends to the theory that the mouth of mordremoth is only part of him, which is what I've been saying.

The Eyes and Mouths speak of Zhaitan as a separate entity, in the third person, just like any other Risen. The Mouth of Mordremoth speaks as if it is Mordremoth, first person, same voice actor- and as Konig pointed out, whenever we visibly see Mordremoth's mind, be it watching us as we traverse the jungle, overlooking the battle with the chubby avatar in the Dream, or superimposed over a possessed Trahearne, it takes on the appearance of a shadowy, spectral Mouth.

[DarcShriek.5829]

@derd.6413 said:

@Dragana.1497 said:

@"WillS.1367" said:We havent seen any of his minions yet either.

Could the Karka be his minions? That's what this tweet by that_shaman made me wonder:

https://twitter.com/that_shaman/status/972962900510900230

i find the krait to be the more likely candidate

Except the Krait are also being pushed out by Bubbles.

[derd.6413]

@DarcShriek.5829 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Dragana.1497 said:

@"WillS.1367" said:We havent seen any of his minions yet either.

Could the Karka be his minions? That's what this tweet by that_shaman made me wonder:

https://twitter.com/that_shaman/status/972962900510900230

i find the krait to be the more likely candidate

Except the Krait are also being pushed out by Bubbles.

more likely.

there is a connection between the krait and dsd while there's very little between the karka and dsd besides they're ocean creators

[Ardid.7203]

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:I dunno, even from how we took Zhaitan down he seemed to be the weakest if the elder dragons. None of the others are vulnerable to conventional weapons as far as we know. I think the relationship is size = power of dragon = how much territory they can hold.

Mordry got killed by getting himself impaled by a friggin’ tree stump. That makes the way we took out Zhaitan look like StarTrek in comparison..!

Mordry/mouth impaled himself because he was already agonizing. We killed him, by tearing him physically, mentally and magically, all at the same time. He just ended the work, probably by mere accident.

[DarcShriek.5829]

@derd.6413 said:

@DarcShriek.5829 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Dragana.1497 said:

@"WillS.1367" said:We havent seen any of his minions yet either.

Could the Karka be his minions? That's what this tweet by that_shaman made me wonder:

https://twitter.com/that_shaman/status/972962900510900230

i find the krait to be the more likely candidate

Except the Krait are also being pushed out by Bubbles.

more

likely.

there is a connection between the krait and dsd while there's very little between the karka and dsd besides they're ocean creators

What connection? Other than the krait have been forced to abandon their ancestral homes by bubbles? They have a history that goes back way before bubbles woke up. Name one minion race that has a history as ancient as the krait.

[Oglaf.1074]

@Ardid.7203 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:I dunno, even from how we took Zhaitan down he seemed to be the weakest if the elder dragons. None of the others are vulnerable to conventional weapons as far as we know. I think the relationship is size = power of dragon = how much territory they can hold.

Mordry got killed by getting himself impaled by a friggin’ tree stump. That makes the way we took out Zhaitan look like StarTrek in comparison..!

Mordry/mouth impaled himself because he was already agonizing. We killed him, by tearing him physically, mentally and magically, all at the same time. He just ended the work, probably by mere accident.

Irrelevant: it still died by jamming a friggin' tree stump into it's braincage and that goes along way to dispute the overpowering, invunerable nature of their physique.

[MrGhosty.4296]

I don't have anything to add, but I just gotta say that I am hugely entertained by how hard ya'll are debating the lore. This is a very entertaining chat, keep it up!

[crepuscular.9047]

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:in Path of Fire by the Commander telling cadets in Vabbi that Mordremoth died by impaling itself on a tree (though this is only half true).

or the tree is Trahearne in the figurative sense?

That’s... a bit of a stretch. Lol.

well, Sylvaris came from the Pale Tree, the Pale Trees came from seeds of Modremoth...

now this reminded me of something... Caladbolg is a thorn from the Pale Tree, maybe it's another weakness of all elder dragons not only limited to Kralkatorrik, they arent immune to objects of their creations (the reason why Glint created the spear from her own blood); the last scene in Heart and Minds, the commander could have used his/her own weapon, but used Caladbolg instead

[Oglaf.1074]

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:in Path of Fire by the Commander telling cadets in Vabbi that Mordremoth died by impaling itself on a tree (though this is only half true).

or the tree is Trahearne in the figurative sense?

That’s... a bit of a stretch. Lol.

well, Sylvaris came from the Pale Tree, the Pale Trees came from seeds of Modremoth...

now this reminded me of something... Caladbolg is a thorn from the Pale Tree, maybe it's another weakness of all elder dragons not only limited to Kralkatorrik, they arent immune to objects of their creations (the reason why Glint created the spear from her own blood); the last scene in Heart and Minds, the commander could have used his/her own weapon, but used Caladbolg instead

Again, we literally see it impaled on a tree stump.

There is no metaphor involved - especially with the frankness of which the Commander states it.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:What evidence is there that the eyes and mouths of Zhaitan didn't speak with his voice? Besides that only lends to the theory that the mouth of mordremoth is only part of him, which is what I've been saying.

For the first part: What Aaron said, basically. The Eyes, whom we know for certain are corrupted kings and queens of Orr per The Source of Orr, as well as the two Mouths of Zhaitan we meet, all speak of Zhaitan in the third person, and with different voices too. This is different for the Mouth of Mordremoth, who uses Mordremoth's voice, speaks in first person as if being Mordremoth, and shares appearances with Mordremoth's mental visuals.

For the second part: That's like saying "everything but a person's hair is only PART of that person! The hair is the actual person!" The vines that Mordremoth grows at his will seems to be akin to hair and nails, something that can grow and be chipped away without a problem in the least. Or at best, they're like fingers, though if the Spitfires are part of Mordremoth, I would equivolate those as fingers since killing Spitfires actually hampers Mordremoth than trimming away some vines.

The Mouth of Mordremoth seems to be no different than a person's head and chest - the core of the person. The only thing that seems to allow Mordremoth to live without his head, is his domain over mind that allows transferring his mind to a new body as we see him do to Trahearne (but to use that to argue that he is a "being of mind and has no body" as I have seen done too many times would be akin to saying a human who can have an outer-body experience is a being of soul and has no body).

@DarcShriek.5829 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@DarcShriek.5829 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Dragana.1497 said:

@"WillS.1367" said:We havent seen any of his minions yet either.

Could the Karka be his minions? That's what this tweet by that_shaman made me wonder:

https://twitter.com/that_shaman/status/972962900510900230

i find the krait to be the more likely candidate

Except the Krait are also being pushed out by Bubbles.

more

likely.

there is a connection between the krait and dsd while there's very little between the karka and dsd besides they're ocean creators

What connection? Other than the krait have been forced to abandon their ancestral homes by bubbles? They have a history that goes back way before bubbles woke up. Name one minion race that has a history as ancient as the krait.

He's probably referring to the Blue Orb aka Krait Orb aka Water Orb, which is theorized to be tied to the Deep Sea Dragon. Or the theory that the krait prophet(s) are the DSD and/or its champions.

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:in Path of Fire by the Commander telling cadets in Vabbi that Mordremoth died by impaling itself on a tree (though this is only half true).

or the tree is Trahearne in the figurative sense?

That’s... a bit of a stretch. Lol.

well, Sylvaris came from the Pale Tree, the Pale Trees came from seeds of Modremoth...

now this reminded me of something... Caladbolg is a thorn from the Pale Tree, maybe it's another weakness of all elder dragons not only limited to Kralkatorrik, they arent immune to objects of their creations (the reason why Glint created the spear from her own blood); the last scene in Heart and Minds, the commander could have used his/her own weapon, but used Caladbolg instead

We supposedly used Caladbolg because it was "bonded" to Trahearne. This likely refers to how it seems to imprint every owner it had into its Dream, as we saw during Knight of the Thorn (still disappointed we never fought the longest wielder of Caladbolg in that side story though, as awesome as it was; would have been a good redemption story for the cowardly Waine). It seemed less of us using Mordremoth's weakness to kill Trahearne+Mordremoth, and more power that held ties to Trahearne.

[Ardid.7203]

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Ardid.7203 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:I dunno, even from how we took Zhaitan down he seemed to be the weakest if the elder dragons. None of the others are vulnerable to conventional weapons as far as we know. I think the relationship is size = power of dragon = how much territory they can hold.

Mordry got killed by getting himself impaled by a friggin’ tree stump. That makes the way we took out Zhaitan look like StarTrek in comparison..!

Mordry/mouth impaled himself because he was already agonizing. We killed him, by tearing him physically, mentally and magically, all at the same time. He just ended the work, probably by mere accident.

Irrelevant: it still died by jamming a friggin' tree stump into it's braincage and that goes along way to dispute the overpowering, invunerable nature of their physique.

We really don't know. Maybe it didn't even made it any real damage. Maybe if the head were impaled during the fight, before the mind defeat, the dragon would simply grow another one.

We know it impaled its head AND died. We don't know if it died BECAUSE it impaled its head. Correlation doesn't imply causality and etc. IMO it was just a symbol, a clear final blow Anet gave us to make sure the battle ended and to show a cool death scene.

[Blocki.4931]

Isn't it canon that the fights happen simultaneously? The story happens while the big attack is launched and they kill mind and body around the same time? Because in that case it's freaking irrelevant how his body died. His brain got impaled and that's it. He stopped moving, period

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Blocki.4931 said:Isn't it canon that the fights happen simultaneously? The story happens while the big attack is launched and they kill mind and body around the same time? Because in that case it's freaking irrelevant how his body died. His brain got impaled and that's it. He stopped moving, period

It does happen during Hearts and Minds (as it is brought up in the story dialogue), but Laranthir's dialogue surrounding the event implies it happens before and after as well.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@derd.6413 said:

@DarcShriek.5829 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Dragana.1497 said:

@"WillS.1367" said:We havent seen any of his minions yet either.

Could the Karka be his minions? That's what this tweet by that_shaman made me wonder:

https://twitter.com/that_shaman/status/972962900510900230

i find the krait to be the more likely candidate

Except the Krait are also being pushed out by Bubbles.

more

likely.

there is a connection between the krait and dsd while there's very little between the karka and dsd besides they're ocean creators

If you're suggesting Krait are DSD Minions then how do they get corrupted by Zhaitin?

Sylvari can't be corrupted because they are dragon minions, remember they were immune to Zhaitin.