Please reduce the Nerf to Druid

[Carighan.6758]

IMO the healers in the game right now (Druid, Firebrand, Ventari, Tempest) need more identity, more than anything else.

I don't mind Druid having lower raw healing output in return for providing lots of buffs, but this needs to be built into a healing spec. Specifically designed. That is to say, consider that most raids will have permanent uptime on Protection, and then consider what if that weren't the case. What if a Druid would, in return for providing less raw healing, significantly reduce the damage the raid takes via her buffs? What if, further, this was a momentary action, something you need to time.

This gives identity: Druids would become the superior healer for fights involving large damaging bursts, more so if these happen raid-wide, able to time their damage reductions so that less healing is needed in turn and people aren't in as much danger of dying. In return they'd struggle (comparatively speaking) with ongoing attrition damage where their lower healing shows.It also drops the offensive boons in favor of defensive ones, which would inherently fix the problem that whenever raid damage is too low to warrant bringing a Tempest or Revenant, you'll always want Druids because hey, we do more damage. If all 4 healer specs are only concerned with survival of the raid, they can be better balanced for that purpose and that purpose only.

In such a scenario I'd fit all healers like this:

• Druid: Inferior healing, but provides significant momentary damage mitigation through manually casted boons and - continuously - via positioning the pet to cover a specific raid member, usually the damage, diverting damage onto the pet which can be healed incidentally while attacking as a Druid through the weapon skills. Excels in high damage burst situations, underperforms against constant attrition damage.
• Ventari: Super-localized and delayed but powerful healing. Excels whenever the raid can safely stack up the members taking damage, underperforms when the raid has to split, especially 1-by-1, as they need too long to heal someone specific then.
• Tempest: The opposite of Ventari, blind-fire self-targetting healing in a wide PBAE. Excels in split situations or where people randomly take small chunks of damage, underperforms when someone specific needs a lot of concentrated healing.
• Firebrand: Superior healing on comparatively large CDs. A firebrand would ideally have some mechanic which increases their healing the less health someone has (themselves excluded), giving this "saving your life at the last second"-vibe. Fits the underlying Guardian class. I know what I suppose for Druids would maybe thematically fit Guardian more, but the Firebrand elite spec in particular doesn't fit well with defensive raid CDs as the theme, IMO.
• (... in theory) Scourge: Shielding healer. Pairs extremely well with other healers since they can prevent damage freeing up the other person to focus on whoever still takes loads of damage. However in turn, struggles if there is no one there to actually heal the damage as their own healing options are... limited. At best.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Brosef.7852 said:

@artemis.6781 said:

@Brosef.7852 said:I can understand the nerfs in WvW and PvP. The game wasn't designed with a healer in mind and it can be overpowered. That said. Why are the nerfs effecting pve content as well. With some of them reducing the healing up to 40%. While at the same time not effecting any other healers. Tempest healers could already out heal a druid. Now druids might not be used at all anymore in raids because the significant loss in healing and might stacking. What the heck? It just seems a bit excessive. While this is going on. You buff engi healing. You don't need to destroy a class to make the other one viable.

Have you tried it yet? Because it's actually just fine. Trait lingering light for heals and there's your actual BUFF to healing. Yes you can't take GotL for might stacking, but what might you do pump out is now at a longer duration. Of course I'm a full harrier druid so boon duration is at 95%. Also frost spirit got a nice buff and no other class has ranger spirits. And in raids, so many other classes can also pump out might to assist the group that there really is no need to worry. So no, druid is not destroyed. And the sky isn't falling.

I have tried it. Its horrible. Also no I don't want other classes sacrificing DPS for might stacking. That is a bad idea for dps check bosses like Gorseval. Secondly If your telling me your not noticing the 40% loss to your Rejuvenating Tides and 20% to lunar impact. Then your either not really taking any damage or your not healing. The might stacking duration on your war horn has been decreased by a third. Also you receive 5 less stacks of might from your rejuvenating tides because grace of the land gives one less per pulse. So yeah it has been nerfed into the ground.

Its a quasi nerf actually. With lingering light you are fine with heals. With GotL you are not. Druid has to choose now between buffing or healing and cannot do both at the same time very effectively. Frost spirit actually got a small nerf btw. Its effectiveness increased but the buff is reduced by 50% while its proc chance increased by 25% only. Fire spirit is better and earth is damn nice for protection.Still wouldnt use them outside from closed PvE though.

And yeahi dont get the nerf in PvE either. It wasnt necessary IMO. Increasing healing potency on tempest, Ventari Rev and Scourge would be better than just nerf druid. All of them could be improved to be buff-healer, i mean Tempest already is kinda but heals and buffs with the same mechanic (namely auras), druid now cant anymore. Scourge could get more a support focussed line were barriers give might etc.Would be way better than just kill fun effective support builds for the sake of diversity.I have to admit i can understand the sustain nerfs on druidin competitive modes, but they nerfed it only to make lingering light a choosable GM which isnt really that what ppl want to see.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:From the patch notes, Druid was buffed as a healer not nerfed. You can't be the best might stacker at the same time as being the best healer but you have to choose between the two. More variety and more options for DruidsExcept there is no real choice there. It's the ability to couple healing with boons that made druids useful. Take the boons away, and it's better to pick a different healer, because even when including lingering light druid is inferior in that regard to other options.Thus, the choice is not between GotL and LL. It's between GotL and a non-druid healer.So, effectively it

was

a massive healing nerf to druids.

Druid was not that good healer it was mostly used for boons and spirits druid heal was beatwn by rev and tempest and firebrand by alot in term o f healing

[derd.6413]

nerf harder

[Astralporing.1957]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:From the patch notes, Druid was buffed as a healer not nerfed. You can't be the best might stacker at the same time as being the best healer but you have to choose between the two. More variety and more options for DruidsExcept there is no real choice there. It's the ability to couple healing with boons that made druids useful. Take the boons away, and it's better to pick a different healer, because even when including lingering light druid is inferior in that regard to other options.Thus, the choice is not between GotL and LL. It's between GotL and a non-druid healer.So, effectively it

was

a massive healing nerf to druids.

Druid was not that good healer it was mostly used for boons and spirits druid heal was beatwn by rev and tempest and firebrand by alot in term o f healingIsn't what i was saying?

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:From the patch notes, Druid was buffed as a healer not nerfed. You can't be the best might stacker at the same time as being the best healer but you have to choose between the two. More variety and more options for DruidsExcept there is no real choice there. It's the ability to couple healing with boons that made druids useful. Take the boons away, and it's better to pick a different healer, because even when including lingering light druid is inferior in that regard to other options.Thus, the choice is not between GotL and LL. It's between GotL and a non-druid healer.So, effectively it

was

a massive healing nerf to druids.

Druid was not that good healer it was mostly used for boons and spirits druid heal was beatwn by rev and tempest and firebrand by alot in term o f healingIsn't what i was saying?

What i mean if you wanted healer there are better options druid was mostly there for the buffs . Basicly no one will use lingering light over gotl

[Durzlla.6295]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:From the patch notes, Druid was buffed as a healer not nerfed. You can't be the best might stacker at the same time as being the best healer but you have to choose between the two. More variety and more options for DruidsExcept there is no real choice there. It's the ability to couple healing with boons that made druids useful. Take the boons away, and it's better to pick a different healer, because even when including lingering light druid is inferior in that regard to other options.Thus, the choice is not between GotL and LL. It's between GotL and a non-druid healer.So, effectively it

was

a massive healing nerf to druids.

Actually, Lingering Light makes Druid a ridiculously good healer because it applies to ALL of their healing, not just the skills that were nerfed, so your glyph(s) that heal, regen, water spirit, nature’s invigoration, nature spirit etc all get buffed by 50% when you have lingering light and enter the avatar state. This makes Druids who take lingering light very capabale healers, while still have access to some powerful buffs via spirits, and glyph of empowerment.

In terms of PvE I think this nerf/buff was fantastic for Druid, we’re now capable of both being a buff bot AND a healer, and it also allows us to very very easily provide all the buffs with one Druid instead of two which allows other supports to enter the meta, which is good for the game as a whole.

For sPvP however, this hurts our survivability, but buffs our support which seems fine... but I’m still experimenting with that, and getting used to the fact that I can’t just man mode through the on point death storm anymore.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:What i mean if you wanted healer there are better options druid was mostly there for the buffs . Basicly no one will use lingering light over gotlSo yes, that was exactly what i was saying.

@Durzlla.6295 said:In terms of PvE I think this nerf/buff was fantastic for Druid, we’re now capable of both being a buff bot AND a healer, and it also allows us to very very easily provide all the buffs with one Druid instead of two which allows other supports to enter the meta, which is good for the game as a whole.True, buffbot role remained (albeit with severely nerfed healing). The point i was making is that change to lingering light doesn't compensate for that nerf, as even with that trait druid healing would be inferior to other choices. Druid was good as a healer only when that role was coupled with buffs. Take the buffs away and you'd be better off taking some other class that would be better at it.

Also, notice that the lingering light healing buff applies only to outgoing healing, which means that druid self-sustain got nerfed regardless of the role (although compared to other changes that one could be considered relatively minor for high-end pve).

[Zushada.6108]

@jcbroe.4329 said:Self sustain was nerfed. Period. It's a nerf, and it hurts the class hard outside of the PvE raid bubble.

This, has been the biggest issue discussed among my circle of druid players. It is distracting and I would love to know the logic behind nerfing self sustain because it makes no sense to me. If I want to keep Glyph of Rejuvenation, I have to spec Lingering Light for self sustain. Otherwise, if I want/need to keep GotL, then I can use Healing Spring and spec Trapper's Expertise. I prefer the functionality of Glyph and just didn't see a need for this particular nerf.

[Durzlla.6295]

@Zushada.6108 said:

@jcbroe.4329 said:Self sustain was nerfed. Period. It's a nerf, and it hurts the class hard outside of the PvE raid bubble.

This, has been the biggest issue discussed among my circle of druid players. It is distracting and I would love to know the logic behind nerfing self sustain because it makes no sense to me. If I want to keep Glyph of Rejuvenation, I have to spec Lingering Light for self sustain. Otherwise, if I want/need to keep GotL, then I can use Healing Spring and spec Trapper's Expertise. I prefer the functionality of Glyph and just didn't see a need for this particular nerf.

I mean, i see the reason to nerf self sustain because in PvP we were able to just sustain ourselves through, like everything. However i do think 35-40% is a bit high, like 20-30% would've been much more appropriate imo.

[jcbroe.4329]

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Zushada.6108 said:

@"jcbroe.4329" said:Self sustain was nerfed. Period. It's a nerf, and it hurts the class hard outside of the PvE raid bubble.

This, has been the biggest issue discussed among my circle of druid players. It is distracting and I would love to know the logic behind nerfing self sustain because it makes no sense to me. If I want to keep Glyph of Rejuvenation, I have to spec Lingering Light for self sustain. Otherwise, if I want/need to keep GotL, then I can use Healing Spring and spec Trapper's Expertise. I prefer the functionality of Glyph and just didn't see a need for this particular nerf.

I mean, i see the reason to nerf self sustain because in PvP we were able to just sustain ourselves through, like everything. However i do think 35-40% is a bit high, like 20-30% would've been much more appropriate imo.

Have you tried Scrapper since the last update with medkit though? It's like Druid on steroids.

Self sustain, a strong AoE healing kit with no gating mechanics, condi removal, boon utility, and all without sacrificing any damage (the only sacrifice is not running Holo, which can honestly do everything mentioned too).

The contrast of the two is so insulting it feels like a spit in the face.

Like, for starters, how is ANet even able to justify double gating Druid mechanic anymore? It should have ALWAYS been either a cooldown or a resource, but poor game design. Even Overwatch just got around to fixing that sort of issue with Lucio's Boop (it was on a cooldown and ate ammo, so they removed the ammo).

It was a cool concept that has been destroyed by cooldowns, so now at a 20 second Celestial Form, it's time to just remove the resource mechanic of it, which, if ANet had ever actually bothered to balance, we wouldn't of eaten the truckload of nerfs over time (starting with how Resounding Timbre was nerfed because "oh no regen makes Astral Force too fast").

And that's just the tip of the iceberg, because Soulbeast is still a literal piece of garbage that needs a full pass on it's traits and weapon, and people calling Soulbeast good now are forgetting that it wasn't really touched, Druid was just obliterated.

At least Core Ranger is in a good spot. The meta is aids with Chronos pooping out so many illusions still that it screws up model rendering, Holos pooping boons and damage and CC everywhere, Spellbreakers sitting on point with nothing able to punish them other than Scourge, who is the Magic Johnson of the aids fest, and of course Firebrand, because the list wouldn't be complete without the class that makes every other support subpar. Oh and Thieves too I guess, because they can....go...real...fast... But yeah, if I want to actually play the game in the sea of all of that, Core Ranger is definitely the most competitive it's ever been.

That doesn't justify Druid and Soulbeast being pieces of shit though.

[Durzlla.6295]

@jcbroe.4329 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Zushada.6108 said:

@jcbroe.4329 said:Self sustain was nerfed. Period. It's a nerf, and it hurts the class hard outside of the PvE raid bubble.

This, has been the biggest issue discussed among my circle of druid players. It is distracting and I would love to know the logic behind nerfing self sustain because it makes no sense to me. If I want to keep Glyph of Rejuvenation, I have to spec Lingering Light for self sustain. Otherwise, if I want/need to keep GotL, then I can use Healing Spring and spec Trapper's Expertise. I prefer the functionality of Glyph and just didn't see a need for this particular nerf.

I mean, i see the reason to nerf self sustain because in PvP we were able to just sustain ourselves through, like everything. However i do think 35-40% is a bit high, like 20-30% would've been much more appropriate imo.

Have you tried Scrapper since the last update with medkit though? It's like Druid on steroids.

Self sustain, a strong AoE healing kit with no gating mechanics, condi removal, boon utility, and all without sacrificing any damage (the only sacrifice is not running Holo, which can honestly do everything mentioned too).

The contrast of the two is so insulting it feels like a spit in the face.

Like, for starters, how is ANet even able to justify double gating Druid mechanic anymore? It should have ALWAYS been either a cooldown or a resource, but poor game design. Even Overwatch just got around to fixing that sort of issue with Lucio's Boop (it was on a cooldown and ate ammo, so they removed the ammo).

It was a cool concept that has been destroyed by cooldowns, so now at a 20 second Celestial Form, it's time to just remove the resource mechanic of it, which, if ANet had ever actually bothered to balance, we wouldn't of eaten the truckload of nerfs over time (starting with how Resounding Timbre was nerfed because "oh no regen makes Astral Force too fast").

And that's just the tip of the iceberg, because Soulbeast is still a literal piece of garbage that needs a full pass on it's traits and weapon, and people calling Soulbeast good now are forgetting that it wasn't really touched, Druid was just obliterated.

At least Core Ranger is in a good spot. The meta is aids with Chronos pooping out so many illusions still that it screws up model rendering, Holos pooping boons and damage and CC everywhere, Spellbreakers sitting on point with nothing able to punish them other than Scourge, who is the Magic Johnson of the aids fest, and of course Firebrand, because the list wouldn't be complete without the class that makes every other support subpar. Oh and Thieves too I guess, because they can....go...real...fast... But yeah, if I want to actually play the game in the sea of all of that, Core Ranger is definitely the most competitive it's ever been.

That doesn't justify Druid and Soulbeast being pieces of kitten though.

I have not tried Medscrapper yet, that’s on my list though. Antes balancing has just been absolutely retarded for Druids, that much I fully agree with.

When Druid released they kept talking about how Druid, unlike the other support builds, was supposed to have super bursts healing but bad sustained healing, and instead of making that the case they just keep nerfing it’s healing, instead of the two problem traits that every Druid has been saying is THE reason they’re so strong in PvP.

It’s absolutely baffling that Anet makes so many poor balance changes so often.

That being said, at least lingering light feels like a good trait again I guess? But they could’ve made the cool split between buffer and healer thing without hamstringing the buffers ability to heal.

[jcbroe.4329]

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@jcbroe.4329 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Zushada.6108 said:

@jcbroe.4329 said:Self sustain was nerfed. Period. It's a nerf, and it hurts the class hard outside of the PvE raid bubble.

This, has been the biggest issue discussed among my circle of druid players. It is distracting and I would love to know the logic behind nerfing self sustain because it makes no sense to me. If I want to keep Glyph of Rejuvenation, I have to spec Lingering Light for self sustain. Otherwise, if I want/need to keep GotL, then I can use Healing Spring and spec Trapper's Expertise. I prefer the functionality of Glyph and just didn't see a need for this particular nerf.

I mean, i see the reason to nerf self sustain because in PvP we were able to just sustain ourselves through, like everything. However i do think 35-40% is a bit high, like 20-30% would've been much more appropriate imo.

Have you tried Scrapper since the last update with medkit though? It's like Druid on steroids.

Self sustain, a strong AoE healing kit with no gating mechanics, condi removal, boon utility, and all without sacrificing any damage (the only sacrifice is not running Holo, which can honestly do everything mentioned too).

The contrast of the two is so insulting it feels like a spit in the face.

Like, for starters, how is ANet even able to justify double gating Druid mechanic anymore? It should have ALWAYS been either a cooldown or a resource, but poor game design. Even Overwatch just got around to fixing that sort of issue with Lucio's Boop (it was on a cooldown and ate ammo, so they removed the ammo).

It was a cool concept that has been destroyed by cooldowns, so now at a 20 second Celestial Form, it's time to just remove the resource mechanic of it, which, if ANet had ever actually bothered to balance, we wouldn't of eaten the truckload of nerfs over time (starting with how Resounding Timbre was nerfed because "oh no regen makes Astral Force too fast").

And that's just the tip of the iceberg, because Soulbeast is still a literal piece of garbage that needs a full pass on it's traits and weapon, and people calling Soulbeast good now are forgetting that it wasn't really touched, Druid was just obliterated.

At least Core Ranger is in a good spot. The meta is aids with Chronos pooping out so many illusions still that it screws up model rendering, Holos pooping boons and damage and CC everywhere, Spellbreakers sitting on point with nothing able to punish them other than Scourge, who is the Magic Johnson of the aids fest, and of course Firebrand, because the list wouldn't be complete without the class that makes every other support subpar. Oh and Thieves too I guess, because they can....go...real...fast... But yeah, if I want to actually play the game in the sea of all of that, Core Ranger is definitely the most competitive it's ever been.

That doesn't justify Druid and Soulbeast being pieces of kitten though.

I have not tried Medscrapper yet, that’s on my list though. Antes balancing has just been absolutely kitten for Druids, that much I fully agree with.

When Druid released they kept talking about how Druid, unlike the other support builds, was supposed to have super bursts healing but bad sustained healing, and instead of making that the case they just keep nerfing it’s healing, instead of the two problem traits that every Druid has been saying is THE reason they’re so strong in PvP.

It’s absolutely baffling that Anet makes so many poor balance changes so often.

That being said, at least lingering light feels like a good trait again I guess? But they could’ve made the cool split between buffer and healer thing without hamstringing the buffers ability to heal.

Yeah.

The traits really should be something more like this:Top Tree - Buffing/SupportMid Tree - HealingBottom Tree - Combat Utility/Enhancement

Listed is descending from adept to grandmaster.Top:

• Druidic Clarity - Remove conditions from allies within the radius of your celestial avatar abilities. 1 Condition, 5 targets.
• Celestial Fortification - Grant Stability to allies within the radius of your celestial avatar abilities. 1 stability, 3 second duration, 5 targets.
• Grace of the Land - Unchanged.

Mid:

• Stoic Mender - Heal in an AoE when you break out of a stun. Entering Celestial Form is a stunbreak.
• Verdant Etching - Unchanged.
• Lingering Light - Reduce recharge of staff skills.Increase outgoing Healing by 25%. This effect is doubled in Celestial Avatar form.

Bottom:

• Primal Echoes - Daze nearby foes when you swap weapons.
• Natural Stride - Unchanged.
• Ancient Seeds - Unchanged.

These may not be perfect, but I think they're conceptually the right idea to transition the spec out of the state it's in and into a place where it has the capability of performing different roles in different environments without overperforming at any given thing. Most importantly, it reduces how mobile and slippery Druid can currently be so that it can function as an "in the fray" support.

[Durzlla.6295]

@jcbroe.4329 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@jcbroe.4329 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:

@Zushada.6108 said:

@jcbroe.4329 said:Self sustain was nerfed. Period. It's a nerf, and it hurts the class hard outside of the PvE raid bubble.

This, has been the biggest issue discussed among my circle of druid players. It is distracting and I would love to know the logic behind nerfing self sustain because it makes no sense to me. If I want to keep Glyph of Rejuvenation, I have to spec Lingering Light for self sustain. Otherwise, if I want/need to keep GotL, then I can use Healing Spring and spec Trapper's Expertise. I prefer the functionality of Glyph and just didn't see a need for this particular nerf.

I mean, i see the reason to nerf self sustain because in PvP we were able to just sustain ourselves through, like everything. However i do think 35-40% is a bit high, like 20-30% would've been much more appropriate imo.

Have you tried Scrapper since the last update with medkit though? It's like Druid on steroids.

Self sustain, a strong AoE healing kit with no gating mechanics, condi removal, boon utility, and all without sacrificing any damage (the only sacrifice is not running Holo, which can honestly do everything mentioned too).

The contrast of the two is so insulting it feels like a spit in the face.

Like, for starters, how is ANet even able to justify double gating Druid mechanic anymore? It should have ALWAYS been either a cooldown or a resource, but poor game design. Even Overwatch just got around to fixing that sort of issue with Lucio's Boop (it was on a cooldown and ate ammo, so they removed the ammo).

It was a cool concept that has been destroyed by cooldowns, so now at a 20 second Celestial Form, it's time to just remove the resource mechanic of it, which, if ANet had ever actually bothered to balance, we wouldn't of eaten the truckload of nerfs over time (starting with how Resounding Timbre was nerfed because "oh no regen makes Astral Force too fast").

And that's just the tip of the iceberg, because Soulbeast is still a literal piece of garbage that needs a full pass on it's traits and weapon, and people calling Soulbeast good now are forgetting that it wasn't really touched, Druid was just obliterated.

At least Core Ranger is in a good spot. The meta is aids with Chronos pooping out so many illusions still that it screws up model rendering, Holos pooping boons and damage and CC everywhere, Spellbreakers sitting on point with nothing able to punish them other than Scourge, who is the Magic Johnson of the aids fest, and of course Firebrand, because the list wouldn't be complete without the class that makes every other support subpar. Oh and Thieves too I guess, because they can....go...real...fast... But yeah, if I want to actually play the game in the sea of all of that, Core Ranger is definitely the most competitive it's ever been.

That doesn't justify Druid and Soulbeast being pieces of kitten though.

I have not tried Medscrapper yet, that’s on my list though. Antes balancing has just been absolutely kitten for Druids, that much I fully agree with.

When Druid released they kept talking about how Druid, unlike the other support builds, was supposed to have super bursts healing but bad sustained healing, and instead of making that the case they just keep nerfing it’s healing, instead of the two problem traits that every Druid has been saying is THE reason they’re so strong in PvP.

It’s absolutely baffling that Anet makes so many poor balance changes so often.

That being said, at least lingering light feels like a good trait again I guess? But they could’ve made the cool split between buffer and healer thing without hamstringing the buffers ability to heal.

Yeah.

The traits really should be something more like this:Top Tree - Buffing/SupportMid Tree - HealingBottom Tree - Combat Utility/Enhancement

Listed is descending from adept to grandmaster.Top:

• Druidic Clarity - Remove conditions from allies within the radius of your celestial avatar abilities. 1 Condition, 5 targets.
• Celestial Fortification - Grant Stability to allies within the radius of your celestial avatar abilities. 1 stability, 3 second duration, 5 targets.
• Grace of the Land - Unchanged.

Mid:

• Stoic Mender - Heal in an AoE when you break out of a stun. Entering Celestial Form is a stunbreak.
• Verdant Etching - Unchanged.
• Lingering Light - Reduce recharge of staff skills.Increase outgoing Healing by 25%. This effect is doubled in Celestial Avatar form.

Bottom:

• Primal Echoes - Daze nearby foes when you swap weapons.
• Natural Stride - Unchanged.
• Ancient Seeds - Unchanged.

These may not be perfect, but I think they're conceptually the right idea to transition the spec out of the state it's in and into a place where it has the capability of performing different roles in different environments without overperforming at any given thing. Most importantly, it reduces how mobile and slippery Druid can currently be so that it can function as an "in the fray" support.

Pretty much exactly what it should be imo, maybe make it so primal echos is on weapon swap AND entering CA (since it does that now), but other then that i don’t think they’d need to change anything and it’d be just fine balance wise.

[Rhapsody Dragonfly.5136]

As far as i am conserved they basically killed ranger. I rather not run druid and ranger has been my main class for years. They should Have brought a Monk back into the game instead of forcing others to take the role of Healer, now after the update i find ranger in PvP is pointless and PvP not worth doing I have not been in WvW in years its not my thing :s so i am only guessing they are just as bad there too.... they refuse to make it possible for us to save our builds and my memory don't work on remembering every class skills and traits i really should need to go to another website to constantly to look at a build to change a build i should be able to save my builds and just load it. But back to ranger I feel the class is no longer playable. Its no longer a Ranger they wanted a Druid so they made Ranger take up the role of a Monk so wrong. Scourage is still too OP in PvP they have done nothing in the last 9 months to tone it down they claimed that they made the game balanced but it was not balanced for ranger nothing works in pvp anymore for that class :( and I dont even go to PoF anymore... Sorry for ranting I'm just tired of them saying the game is Balanced when it not they did nothing for the Ranger class

[Carighan.6758]

In fact, the game would improve a lot if all 3 picks in each column of traits were always for the same end result.

"This improves your healing to others" or "This improves your self-healing", it just changes how it does that. That way, overall character power is absolutely reliable, too. You know they'll have X traits for healing themselves if they picked traitlines A, B and C. Much easier to balance.

[Durzlla.6295]

@"Carighan.6758" said:In fact, the game would improve a lot if all 3 picks in each column of traits were always for the same end result.

"This improves your healing to others" or "This improves your self-healing", it just changes how it does that. That way, overall character power is absolutely reliable, too. You know they'll have X traits for healing themselves if they picked traitlines A, B and C. Much easier to balance.

But then you’d end up with elite specs being able to fill literally just one role, or no role at all because they wouldn’t be able to specialize. I think it’d be doable to make elite specs this way, since you could just be like “Druids support, so they’ll have a healing column, a buff column, and a CC column.” But Idk if that should be done for the core lines. Definitely some give and take there. You’d get easier balance, but it’d come at the cost of less variability.

[Carighan.6758]

@Durzlla.6295 said:But then you’d end up with elite specs being able to fill literally just one role, or no role at all because they wouldn’t be able to specialize. I think it’d be doable to make elite specs this way, since you could just be like “Druids support, so they’ll have a healing column, a buff column, and a CC column.” But Idk if that should be done for the core lines. Definitely some give and take there. You’d get easier balance, but it’d come at the cost of less variability.

Yeah, that's how I imagine it to be. Druid would always be a buff-centric healer spec, no exceptions. And yeah it'd cost a lot of variability but IMHO the game has far too much of that. To the point where it makes balancing ~impossible, hence why I would support such a reshuffling of traits.

For the core lines it mostly requires giving each line an identity. Say on Mesmer Domination could be for CC and anti-CC. And so on.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Brosef.7852 said:I can understand the nerfs in WvW and PvP. The game wasn't designed with a healer in mind and it can be overpowered. That said. Why are the nerfs effecting pve content as well. With some of them reducing the healing up to 40%. While at the same time not effecting any other healers. Tempest healers could already out heal a druid. Now druids might not be used at all anymore in raids because the significant loss in healing and might stacking. What the heck? It just seems a bit excessive. While this is going on. You buff engi healing. You don't need to destroy a class to make the other one viable.

I actually understand the nerfs in pve, so that other classes could play viable heal/buff roles. It was the changes in pvp/wvw that Druid DID NOT need. Druid was struggling to maintain it's job role in spvp before this nerf, now it is out of a job role in conquest. Druid in wvw, wasn't used anyway, now it's just completely useless.

[Durzlla.6295]

@Carighan.6758 said:

@Durzlla.6295 said:But then you’d end up with elite specs being able to fill literally just one role, or no role at all because they wouldn’t be able to specialize. I think it’d be doable to make elite specs this way, since you could just be like “Druids support, so they’ll have a healing column, a buff column, and a CC column.” But Idk if that should be done for the core lines. Definitely some give and take there. You’d get easier balance, but it’d come at the cost of less variability.

Yeah, that's how I imagine it to be. Druid would always be a buff-centric healer spec, no exceptions. And yeah it'd cost a lot of variability but IMHO the game has far too much of that. To the point where it makes balancing ~impossible, hence why I would support such a reshuffling of traits.

For the core lines it mostly requires giving each line an identity. Say on Mesmer Domination could be for CC and anti-CC. And so on.

Personally I think it’d be healthier for the game as a whole if they did it, just due to it being easier to balance, would also be kinda cool imo as long as the 3 changes were equally strong, just in different ways.

[Whiskertickles.5319]

@maddoctor.2738 said:If you check this trait change: Lingering Light: This trait no longer grants its effects when healing an ally. It now grants its effects when entering celestial avatar form. While in celestial avatar form, outgoing healing to allies is increased by 50%.

The nerfs to Druid Celestial Avatar skills are less than 50%Cosmic Ray: Reduced the healing of this skill by 30%.Seed of Life.png Seed of Life: Reduced the healing of this skill by 35%.Lunar Impact.png Lunar Impact: The heal scaling of this skill is no longer split between game modes and will now use the lower 20% reduced heal scaling in all modes.Rejuvenating Tides.png Rejuvenating Tides: Reduced the healing of this skill by 40%.

In the end they decided to force Druids to pick between two grandmaster traits, you either use Grace of the Land to buff might or you pick Lingering Light to be a healer. That way a Druid can't be both at the same time and Grace of the Land has a huge drawback. Healing with LL should be higher than pre-patch.

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You're right. A druid now has to decide whether he is going to be healer or might buffer and a little bit of heal.Buf if you reduce something by percentage X and take that value and increase that by percentage of X again you are not at the value you were at the beginning.So 100€ 0.5 = 50€ decrease -> 50€ 0.5= 25€ increase.

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The following calculations are with trait Lingering Light (LL) enabled:Let's say every healing skill has some output of 100 healing power (HP).

• Cosmic Ray got reduced by 30%: So it now has 70 healing power, Whereas in CA it has 70*0.5 increase (so 105 healing power) <- that's fine thats in increase of 5 healing power

But here is the little debuf in LL:

• Seed of Life got reduced by 35%: So now it is at 65 HP, Whereas in CA it has 97.5 HP (65*0.5) <- debuf even with LL
• Rejuvenating TIdes got reduced by 40%: So now it is at 60, Whereas in CA it has 90 HP (60*0.5) <- debuf

To sum it up the Healing of LL is not higher than the pre-patch.