Weaver is in dire need of nerf

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:There is no weaver power problem. The higher power is required to make such a fragile spec

work

. What part of this you're having trouble understanding?

Weaver more tankly then core ele though.

Not if you build it for damage.

If you build for dmg on core ele your far less tankly then what weaver has both passive and utility.

The only thing a damage weaver spec has that has anything to do with being tanky is the minor that gives some toughness when you attune earth. A damage core ele will have arcane in place of weaver, which is far superior defensively. Your utilities in both cases have zero defensive value.

What? There higher vit from power/condi dmg %, barrier on duel skills, stances utility and a elite that give you super speed / def for at least 15 sec?. If that not higher def i am not sure what game your playing.

What you describe isn't a DPS weaver. DPS weaver takes Superior Elements, Swift Revenge and Elements of Rage. No vit, no superspeed. My apologies, I've missed the 378 barrier you get when using a dual skill from the minor. Totally relevant. Offsets the loss of the automatic arcane shield and the prot you get every time you attune earth. /s

As superior elments is on a long cd and often is not going to even trigger its higher crit chase it seems worthless to run. Every bit of barrier is hp you did not have before it will save you. The super speed is from you self weave and twist of fate.

Passive boons are better then automatic arcane shield i mean its about dmg right so why run a def skill like passive arcane shield?

The CD of Superior Elements is irrelevant. This isn't single player and Weakness is easy to apply. You can't pick some vit over 15% crit and pretend you're running a dps spec.

Speaking of which, Weave Self is optional, and unlike Superior Elements, its CD is actually long. The occasional superspeed from it hardly changes anything. Twist of Fate is zero dps, so you don't run this.

He might be talking about Weaver in WvW.. If your zerging, you still take Superior elements for the crit anyway its just too good, Weave self is optional but I run FGS for a little more mobility

[Jski.6180]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:There is no weaver power problem. The higher power is required to make such a fragile spec

work

. What part of this you're having trouble understanding?

Weaver more tankly then core ele though.

Not if you build it for damage.

If you build for dmg on core ele your far less tankly then what weaver has both passive and utility.

The only thing a damage weaver spec has that has anything to do with being tanky is the minor that gives some toughness when you attune earth. A damage core ele will have arcane in place of weaver, which is far superior defensively. Your utilities in both cases have zero defensive value.

What? There higher vit from power/condi dmg %, barrier on duel skills, stances utility and a elite that give you super speed / def for at least 15 sec?. If that not higher def i am not sure what game your playing.

What you describe isn't a DPS weaver. DPS weaver takes Superior Elements, Swift Revenge and Elements of Rage. No vit, no superspeed. My apologies, I've missed the 378 barrier you get when using a dual skill from the minor. Totally relevant. Offsets the loss of the automatic arcane shield and the prot you get every time you attune earth. /s

As superior elments is on a long cd and often is not going to even trigger its higher crit chase it seems worthless to run. Every bit of barrier is hp you did not have before it will save you. The super speed is from you self weave and twist of fate.

Passive boons are better then automatic arcane shield i mean its about dmg right so why run a def skill like passive arcane shield?

The CD of Superior Elements is irrelevant. This isn't single player and Weakness is easy to apply. You can't pick some vit over 15% crit and pretend you're running a dps spec.

Speaking of which, Weave Self is optional, and unlike Superior Elements, its CD is actually long. The occasional superspeed from it hardly changes anything. Twist of Fate is zero dps, so you don't run this.

He might be talking about Weaver in WvW.. If your zerging, you still take Superior elements for the crit anyway its just too good, Weave self is optional but I run FGS for a little more mobility

Well ya where else would being tankly or glass even factor into game play. I find it hard to see weakness on ppl to get that higher crit chase. Self weave i think is better as its longer super speed that dose not have a lock of skills so using self weave into burning reteat works out nicely and keeps earth aura open. Also good for aggressive for the shorter cd on atument swaps.

Weaver realy ele over all lacks any type of real anty-dmg mitigation that you see on other dps classes and that what going to keep holding the ele class back not the max dmg of getting a free +25% crit for running weaver BUT its going to make weaver seem op to the point of never getting real fixes to the core class. Getting more dmg from your dmg effect a double dip as it where is always an unbalance way of playing. Weaver should not get as much crit dmg from its power if any at all. But it needs some other means of self buff that lets it hit around dmg mitigation or means of landing more dmg in-between a players dmg mitigation duration / cd.

[Baseraver.7241]

@Bakeneko.5826 said:

@"Baseraver.7241" said:Weaver is not best in slot for many bosses, its just viable in pug runs for almost every single raid boss there is

the fun fact is that scourge currently is the top spec for many bosses with adds and not ele in coordinated staticsthe only time when eles get top dps in pug runs nowadays is when they actually know their class better than some random pug who picked weaver up a few weeks agoi have outdpsed weavers with spb dps for example on bosses where it shouldnt be possible

if those knew how to play weaver

so yeah, i dont think ele needs a nerf, i really just think that the latest meteor shower nerf/change was a completely trashy rework in meteors mechanics, for example:

at sloth and sama, who both dont count as "invulnerable" at their breakbar phases, you cant just precast meteor anymore like in the old rotation pre nerf cause your emteor hits, that hit for 0 dmg!, already would count into the calculations for the -10% dmg reduction

meaning the new weaver rota from SC, starting that directkly after the breakbar is broken, would benefit you moer in terms of dmg if you 2x attune fire into lava font and meteor shower to get those nice burst hits before they get reduced

weaver nowadays, especially due to this kitten meteor change and the devs not wanting to realise that its a completely dumb rework for gameplays sake, makes weaver even harder to play for newer ele players who even struggle to reach 30k bursts on samarog because:

a) MS gets canceled due to them not being used to shockwavesb) glyph of storms gets canceled for the same reason (and now it doesnt just go on 3-4s CD, but rather onto the full 60s CD when being interrupted.... GJ devs for this gloriious bug!...)c) them not being good at conjure placement and picking them later anywaysd) those new eles not being good at "recovering" after they lost track of their rotationbecause they dont undeerstand the class to the fullest since even SC does a bad job at explaining, their guides are nowhere near good enough for this, it needs video tutorials

so yeah, you thinking weaver needs another nerf at this point, a class that needs a lot of experience within the game itself and a lot of practice as a weaver itself, is kinda ridiculous

PRE NERF everyone would agree that weaver needed a dmg nerf in its own since it was too much, but this meteor change was just so stupid by whoever came up with it that any other major dmg nerf wuold just punish good weaver players as in: harder to play, but same result as some random DPS spb/ holosmith/ etc pp

No, latest ele nerf need roll back and nerf weaver traits, as Ele itself was as big of a problem, as bonus DMG traits give

I was all for nerfing weaver itself and not a base ele skill like meteors man

If we take Elements of Rage buff for itself: on double attune it gives you a 10% dmg modifier

but what actually is more terrifying is the amount of ferocity it gives you on top as well: 14% of your POWERunbuffed, this gives you around 400 ferocity on its own as a single trait....unbuffed you get from ~1000 ferocity to ~1400 ferocity which is overpowered as hellimagine the amount of fero you get with all buffs

[Feanor.2358]

@Baseraver.7241 said:

@Bakeneko.5826 said:

@Baseraver.7241 said:Weaver is not best in slot for many bosses, its just viable in pug runs for almost every single raid boss there is

the fun fact is that scourge currently is the top spec for many bosses with adds and not ele in coordinated staticsthe only time when eles get top dps in pug runs nowadays is when they actually know their class better than some random pug who picked weaver up a few weeks agoi have outdpsed weavers with spb dps for example on bosses where it shouldnt be possible

if those knew how to play weaver

so yeah, i dont think ele needs a nerf, i really just think that the latest meteor shower nerf/change was a completely trashy rework in meteors mechanics, for example:

at sloth and sama, who both dont count as "invulnerable" at their breakbar phases, you cant just precast meteor anymore like in the old rotation pre nerf cause your emteor hits, that hit for 0 dmg!, already would count into the calculations for the -10% dmg reduction

meaning the new weaver rota from SC, starting that directkly after the breakbar is broken, would benefit you moer in terms of dmg if you 2x attune fire into lava font and meteor shower to get those nice burst hits before they get reduced

weaver nowadays, especially due to this kitten meteor change and the devs not wanting to realise that its a completely dumb rework for gameplays sake, makes weaver even harder to play for newer ele players who even struggle to reach 30k bursts on samarog because:

a) MS gets canceled due to them not being used to shockwavesb) glyph of storms gets canceled for the same reason (and now it doesnt just go on 3-4s CD, but rather onto the full 60s CD when being interrupted.... GJ devs for this gloriious bug!...)c) them not being good at conjure placement and picking them later anywaysd) those new eles not being good at "recovering" after they lost track of their rotationbecause they dont undeerstand the class to the fullest since even SC does a bad job at explaining, their guides are nowhere near good enough for this, it needs video tutorials

so yeah, you thinking weaver needs another nerf at this point, a class that needs a lot of experience within the game itself and a lot of practice as a weaver itself, is kinda ridiculous

PRE NERF everyone would agree that weaver needed a dmg nerf in its own since it was too much, but this meteor change was just so stupid by whoever came up with it that any other major dmg nerf wuold just punish good weaver players as in: harder to play, but same result as some random DPS spb/ holosmith/ etc pp

No, latest ele nerf need roll back and nerf weaver traits, as Ele itself was as big of a problem, as bonus DMG traits give

I was all for nerfing weaver itself and not a base ele skill like meteors man

If we take Elements of Rage buff for itself: on double attune it gives you a 10% dmg modifier

but what actually is more terrifying is the amount of ferocity it gives you on top as well: 14% of your POWERunbuffed, this gives you around 400 ferocity on its own as a single trait....unbuffed you get from ~1000 ferocity to ~1400 ferocity which is overpowered as hellimagine the amount of fero you get with all buffs

Imagine the amount of utility you give up to get it. Weaver needs all this firepower, otherwise it would be useless.

[Baseraver.7241]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Baseraver.7241 said:

@Bakeneko.5826 said:

@Baseraver.7241 said:Weaver is not best in slot for many bosses, its just viable in pug runs for almost every single raid boss there is

the fun fact is that scourge currently is the top spec for many bosses with adds and not ele in coordinated staticsthe only time when eles get top dps in pug runs nowadays is when they actually know their class better than some random pug who picked weaver up a few weeks agoi have outdpsed weavers with spb dps for example on bosses where it shouldnt be possible

if those knew how to play weaver

so yeah, i dont think ele needs a nerf, i really just think that the latest meteor shower nerf/change was a completely trashy rework in meteors mechanics, for example:

at sloth and sama, who both dont count as "invulnerable" at their breakbar phases, you cant just precast meteor anymore like in the old rotation pre nerf cause your emteor hits, that hit for 0 dmg!, already would count into the calculations for the -10% dmg reduction

meaning the new weaver rota from SC, starting that directkly after the breakbar is broken, would benefit you moer in terms of dmg if you 2x attune fire into lava font and meteor shower to get those nice burst hits before they get reduced

weaver nowadays, especially due to this kitten meteor change and the devs not wanting to realise that its a completely dumb rework for gameplays sake, makes weaver even harder to play for newer ele players who even struggle to reach 30k bursts on samarog because:

a) MS gets canceled due to them not being used to shockwavesb) glyph of storms gets canceled for the same reason (and now it doesnt just go on 3-4s CD, but rather onto the full 60s CD when being interrupted.... GJ devs for this gloriious bug!...)c) them not being good at conjure placement and picking them later anywaysd) those new eles not being good at "recovering" after they lost track of their rotationbecause they dont undeerstand the class to the fullest since even SC does a bad job at explaining, their guides are nowhere near good enough for this, it needs video tutorials

so yeah, you thinking weaver needs another nerf at this point, a class that needs a lot of experience within the game itself and a lot of practice as a weaver itself, is kinda ridiculous

PRE NERF everyone would agree that weaver needed a dmg nerf in its own since it was too much, but this meteor change was just so stupid by whoever came up with it that any other major dmg nerf wuold just punish good weaver players as in: harder to play, but same result as some random DPS spb/ holosmith/ etc pp

No, latest ele nerf need roll back and nerf weaver traits, as Ele itself was as big of a problem, as bonus DMG traits give

I was all for nerfing weaver itself and not a base ele skill like meteors man

If we take Elements of Rage buff for itself: on double attune it gives you a 10% dmg modifier

but what actually is more terrifying is the amount of ferocity it gives you on top as well: 14% of your POWERunbuffed, this gives you around 400 ferocity on its own as a single trait....unbuffed you get from ~1000 ferocity to ~1400 ferocity which is overpowered as hellimagine the amount of fero you get with all buffs

Imagine the amount of utility you give up to get it. Weaver needs all this firepower, otherwise it would be useless.

weaver pre nerf easily couldve taken a nerf in stats over this trait and still be top dpswe didnt need meteor nerfs, we needed stat nerfs to not make meteors so annoying to use and at the same time tone the dmg down a biti am still outdpsing most specs in pugs, like for example power spb/ dh/ holo on VG

its just, you cant precast meteors anymore on fights like sloth in his cc phgase because meteor hits already count toward dmg reduction while dealing 0 dmgthats a quality of life nerf in itself, simple stat reduction wouldve not changed this though

not to mention, weaver is still top dps in fractals as well especially 100cm and 99cm by a mile

[supreme.3602]

Why do you want to nerf Weaver? You could kill us in 2 hits if you tried, so stop crying already and l2p.

[Baseraver.7241]

@"Dahir.4158" said:Why do you want to nerf Weaver? You could kill us in 2 hits if you tried, so stop crying already and l2p.

cant talk for the OP but all im saying is for pve

• revert meteor shower
• nerf elements of rage numbers by a bit

whoever thought weaver didnt need a nerf pre patch was delusional, its just that the meteor shower nerf was not the best way to do it

btw: im playing weaver good enough, i dont need to git gud and l2p

[Feanor.2358]

@Baseraver.7241 said:not to mention, weaver is still top dps in fractals as well especially 100cm and 99cm by a mile

Yeah, no. A competent Holo will match the dps of a competent Weaver on many fights.

[supreme.3602]

@Baseraver.7241 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:Why do you want to nerf Weaver? You could kill us in 2 hits if you tried, so stop crying already and l2p.

cant talk for the OP but all im saying is for pve

• revert meteor shower
• nerf elements of rage numbers by a bit

whoever thought weaver didnt need a nerf pre patch was delusional, its just that the meteor shower nerf was not the best way to do it

btw: im playing weaver good enough, i dont need to git gud and l2p

Nerf Elements of Rage, why? We are kinda in a good place at the moment with damage and you want to ruin it.

[Jski.6180]

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@Baseraver.7241 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:Why do you want to nerf Weaver? You could kill us in 2 hits if you tried, so stop crying already and l2p.

cant talk for the OP but all im saying is for pve

• revert meteor shower
• nerf elements of rage numbers by a bit

whoever thought weaver didnt need a nerf pre patch was delusional, its just that the meteor shower nerf was not the best way to do it

btw: im playing weaver good enough, i dont need to git gud and l2p

Nerf Elements of Rage, why? We are kinda in a good place at the moment with damage and you want to ruin it.

The problem with elements of rage is that its a dmg effect that add more dmg from having more dmg. It makes power that much stronger on the class. Its an effect that you can never comply balance and will always hold back the weaver class and sadly the core ele class for its max dmg on skills because any one can run elemental of rage and throw all the balancing of skills out of the window.

A free 20% to 25% crit dmg and 10% dmg when you double swap is a lot on a GM. It would be far better to drop the power to crit dmg to 10% and the double swap to 5% to both condi and power dmg at the same time buffing all of the dmg skills on ele and weaver (not tempest needs a major support buff but its dmg should never be that high).

I would not mind them re-looking at the other GM in weaver line as they are not used most of the time.

[supreme.3602]

I still don't understand why you want to nerf our class after all the stuff it's been through. Just leave it as it is and be happy.

[Feanor.2358]

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@Baseraver.7241 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:Why do you want to nerf Weaver? You could kill us in 2 hits if you tried, so stop crying already and l2p.

cant talk for the OP but all im saying is for pve

• revert meteor shower
• nerf elements of rage numbers by a bit

whoever thought weaver didnt need a nerf pre patch was delusional, its just that the meteor shower nerf was not the best way to do it

btw: im playing weaver good enough, i dont need to git gud and l2p

Nerf Elements of Rage, why? We are kinda in a good place at the moment with damage and you want to ruin it.

The problem with elements of rage is that its a dmg effect that add more dmg from having more dmg. It makes power that much stronger on the class. Its an effect that you can never comply balance and will always hold back the weaver class and sadly the core ele class for its max dmg on skills because any one can run elemental of rage and throw all the balancing of skills out of the window.

A free 20% to 25% crit dmg and 10% dmg when you double swap is a lot on a GM. It would be far better to drop the power to crit dmg to 10% and the double swap to 5% to both condi and power dmg at the same time buffing all of the dmg skills on ele and weaver (not tempest needs a major support buff but its dmg should never be that high).

I would not mind them re-looking at the other GM in weaver line as they are not used most of the time.

So basically another Bolt to the Heart. That's boring.

[lLobo.7960]

@Jski.6180 said:I would not mind them re-looking at the other GM in weaver line as they are not used most of the time.

They are used.Just not in high-end PVE.

Woven stride is one of the things that keep weaver viable in pvp and small-scale/roaming wvw.Invigorating strikes is used on some fringe builds in pvp that use tons of barrier and earth

[Jski.6180]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@Baseraver.7241 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:Why do you want to nerf Weaver? You could kill us in 2 hits if you tried, so stop crying already and l2p.

cant talk for the OP but all im saying is for pve

• revert meteor shower
• nerf elements of rage numbers by a bit

whoever thought weaver didnt need a nerf pre patch was delusional, its just that the meteor shower nerf was not the best way to do it

btw: im playing weaver good enough, i dont need to git gud and l2p

Nerf Elements of Rage, why? We are kinda in a good place at the moment with damage and you want to ruin it.

The problem with elements of rage is that its a dmg effect that add more dmg from having more dmg. It makes power that much stronger on the class. Its an effect that you can never comply balance and will always hold back the weaver class and sadly the core ele class for its max dmg on skills because any one can run elemental of rage and throw all the balancing of skills out of the window.

A free 20% to 25% crit dmg and 10% dmg when you double swap is a lot on a GM. It would be far better to drop the power to crit dmg to 10% and the double swap to 5% to both condi and power dmg at the same time buffing all of the dmg skills on ele and weaver (not tempest needs a major support buff but its dmg should never be that high).

I would not mind them re-looking at the other GM in weaver line as they are not used most of the time.

So basically another Bolt to the Heart. That's boring.

Still very different then bolt to the heart as you need to hit an hp amount on your target to trigger the effect something that is much harder to do in wvw setting due to barrier spame (bolt to the heart is out dated as can be realty all the if hp is lower then x are out dated as they where made as means of conter healing but barrier has thow that comply out of wacked). Dmg to get more dmg is never a good balancing point and i am asking for this effect to be dropped some what and giving a condi effect boost and over all boosting core ele / weaver over all dmg from there skills.

As for the other GM they are not good on there own like elements of rage you need to take other lines to make them usable. I would not call barrier on dodge roll usable at all.

[Feanor.2358]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@Baseraver.7241 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:Why do you want to nerf Weaver? You could kill us in 2 hits if you tried, so stop crying already and l2p.

cant talk for the OP but all im saying is for pve

• revert meteor shower
• nerf elements of rage numbers by a bit

whoever thought weaver didnt need a nerf pre patch was delusional, its just that the meteor shower nerf was not the best way to do it

btw: im playing weaver good enough, i dont need to git gud and l2p

Nerf Elements of Rage, why? We are kinda in a good place at the moment with damage and you want to ruin it.

The problem with elements of rage is that its a dmg effect that add more dmg from having more dmg. It makes power that much stronger on the class. Its an effect that you can never comply balance and will always hold back the weaver class and sadly the core ele class for its max dmg on skills because any one can run elemental of rage and throw all the balancing of skills out of the window.

A free 20% to 25% crit dmg and 10% dmg when you double swap is a lot on a GM. It would be far better to drop the power to crit dmg to 10% and the double swap to 5% to both condi and power dmg at the same time buffing all of the dmg skills on ele and weaver (not tempest needs a major support buff but its dmg should never be that high).

I would not mind them re-looking at the other GM in weaver line as they are not used most of the time.

So basically another Bolt to the Heart. That's boring.

Still very different then bolt to the heart as you need to hit an hp amount on your target to trigger the effect something that is much harder to do in wvw setting due to barrier spame (bolt to the heart is out dated as can be realty all the if hp is lower then x are out dated as they where made as means of conter healing but barrier has thow that comply out of wacked). Dmg to get more dmg is never a good balancing point and i am asking for this effect to be dropped some what and giving a condi effect boost and over all boosting core ele / weaver over all dmg from there skills.

As for the other GM they are not good on there own like elements of rage you need to take other lines to make them usable. I would not call barrier on dodge roll usable at all.

The other GMs are underwhelming, I fully agree. Although my perspective is heavily biased toward PvE. Or, to be more precise, toward dealing damage. So I might very well be wrong here, I'm not really that confident in my ability to estimate the value of defensive traits.

What I don't like about your suggestion is the diminished power of the active component of Elements of Rage. That's kinda gameplay-defining. But it needs to be strong enough for it to be gameplay-defining. Tune it down and it becomes just another passive bonus with imperfect uptime. And again, I think EoR has to be stronger than BttH in any case. Weaver can be a very strong offensive line, but it forgoes so much utility in being offensive that it needs a significant increase of damage output to offset it.

[Baseraver.7241]

@"Dahir.4158" said:I still don't understand why you want to nerf our class after all the stuff it's been through. Just leave it as it is and be happy.

I was asking for a buff and a nerf in case you still didnt get it. Dont worry, Weaver will most likely still be top dps even with my suggestions...Its just that, its much easier to balance around EoR than around the mechanics of Meteor Shower because it impacts gameplay and EoR doesnt if numbers of the ferocity get tuned. LOGICS DUDE

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@Baseraver.7241 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:Why do you want to nerf Weaver? You could kill us in 2 hits if you tried, so stop crying already and l2p.

cant talk for the OP but all im saying is for pve

• revert meteor shower
• nerf elements of rage numbers by a bit

whoever thought weaver didnt need a nerf pre patch was delusional, its just that the meteor shower nerf was not the best way to do it

btw: im playing weaver good enough, i dont need to git gud and l2p

Nerf Elements of Rage, why? We are kinda in a good place at the moment with damage and you want to ruin it.

The problem with elements of rage is that its a dmg effect that add more dmg from having more dmg. It makes power that much stronger on the class. Its an effect that you can never comply balance and will always hold back the weaver class and sadly the core ele class for its max dmg on skills because any one can run elemental of rage and throw all the balancing of skills out of the window.

A free 20% to 25% crit dmg and 10% dmg when you double swap is a lot on a GM. It would be far better to drop the power to crit dmg to 10% and the double swap to 5% to both condi and power dmg at the same time buffing all of the dmg skills on ele and weaver (not tempest needs a major support buff but its dmg should never be that high).

I would not mind them re-looking at the other GM in weaver line as they are not used most of the time.

I feel like there is finally someone who understands me somehow on these forums

[Jski.6180]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@Baseraver.7241 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:Why do you want to nerf Weaver? You could kill us in 2 hits if you tried, so stop crying already and l2p.

cant talk for the OP but all im saying is for pve

• revert meteor shower
• nerf elements of rage numbers by a bit

whoever thought weaver didnt need a nerf pre patch was delusional, its just that the meteor shower nerf was not the best way to do it

btw: im playing weaver good enough, i dont need to git gud and l2p

Nerf Elements of Rage, why? We are kinda in a good place at the moment with damage and you want to ruin it.

The problem with elements of rage is that its a dmg effect that add more dmg from having more dmg. It makes power that much stronger on the class. Its an effect that you can never comply balance and will always hold back the weaver class and sadly the core ele class for its max dmg on skills because any one can run elemental of rage and throw all the balancing of skills out of the window.

A free 20% to 25% crit dmg and 10% dmg when you double swap is a lot on a GM. It would be far better to drop the power to crit dmg to 10% and the double swap to 5% to both condi and power dmg at the same time buffing all of the dmg skills on ele and weaver (not tempest needs a major support buff but its dmg should never be that high).

I would not mind them re-looking at the other GM in weaver line as they are not used most of the time.

So basically another Bolt to the Heart. That's boring.

Still very different then bolt to the heart as you need to hit an hp amount on your target to trigger the effect something that is much harder to do in wvw setting due to barrier spame (bolt to the heart is out dated as can be realty all the if hp is lower then x are out dated as they where made as means of conter healing but barrier has thow that comply out of wacked). Dmg to get more dmg is never a good balancing point and i am asking for this effect to be dropped some what and giving a condi effect boost and over all boosting core ele / weaver over all dmg from there skills.

As for the other GM they are not good on there own like elements of rage you need to take other lines to make them usable. I would not call barrier on dodge roll usable at all.

The other GMs are underwhelming, I fully agree. Although my perspective is heavily biased toward PvE. Or, to be more precise, toward dealing damage. So I might very well be wrong here, I'm not really that confident in my ability to estimate the value of defensive traits.

What I don't like about your suggestion is the diminished power of the active component of Elements of Rage. That's kinda gameplay-defining. But it needs to be strong enough for it to be gameplay-defining. Tune it down and it becomes just another passive bonus with imperfect uptime. And again, I think EoR has to be stronger than BttH in any case. Weaver can be a very strong offensive line, but it forgoes so much utility in being offensive that it needs a significant increase of damage output to offset it.

The though is to drop the power of elements of rage to buff all the other skills on weaver and core ele. Right now we keep seeing dmg skill getting nerf because of effects like EoR and it will keep happening because of this one GMs.

Weaver is a strong booster line it gives you more of every thing with out defining a roll its the wepon of the core class that tend to defin that roll more then the weaver line it self. Weaver line should be a dmg line but it should be a dmg line base off of weaver skills such as doing more dmg with duel skills doing more dmg / effects when using statces and doing more dmg when you have barrier up. That would make it a true dmg line for weaver and not just a booster line for ele.

[Feanor.2358]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@Baseraver.7241 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:Why do you want to nerf Weaver? You could kill us in 2 hits if you tried, so stop crying already and l2p.

cant talk for the OP but all im saying is for pve

• revert meteor shower
• nerf elements of rage numbers by a bit

whoever thought weaver didnt need a nerf pre patch was delusional, its just that the meteor shower nerf was not the best way to do it

btw: im playing weaver good enough, i dont need to git gud and l2p

Nerf Elements of Rage, why? We are kinda in a good place at the moment with damage and you want to ruin it.

The problem with elements of rage is that its a dmg effect that add more dmg from having more dmg. It makes power that much stronger on the class. Its an effect that you can never comply balance and will always hold back the weaver class and sadly the core ele class for its max dmg on skills because any one can run elemental of rage and throw all the balancing of skills out of the window.

A free 20% to 25% crit dmg and 10% dmg when you double swap is a lot on a GM. It would be far better to drop the power to crit dmg to 10% and the double swap to 5% to both condi and power dmg at the same time buffing all of the dmg skills on ele and weaver (not tempest needs a major support buff but its dmg should never be that high).

I would not mind them re-looking at the other GM in weaver line as they are not used most of the time.

So basically another Bolt to the Heart. That's boring.

Still very different then bolt to the heart as you need to hit an hp amount on your target to trigger the effect something that is much harder to do in wvw setting due to barrier spame (bolt to the heart is out dated as can be realty all the if hp is lower then x are out dated as they where made as means of conter healing but barrier has thow that comply out of wacked). Dmg to get more dmg is never a good balancing point and i am asking for this effect to be dropped some what and giving a condi effect boost and over all boosting core ele / weaver over all dmg from there skills.

As for the other GM they are not good on there own like elements of rage you need to take other lines to make them usable. I would not call barrier on dodge roll usable at all.

The other GMs are underwhelming, I fully agree. Although my perspective is heavily biased toward PvE. Or, to be more precise, toward dealing damage. So I might very well be wrong here, I'm not really that confident in my ability to estimate the value of defensive traits.

What I don't like about your suggestion is the diminished power of the active component of Elements of Rage. That's kinda gameplay-defining. But it needs to be strong enough for it to be gameplay-defining. Tune it down and it becomes just another passive bonus with imperfect uptime. And again, I think EoR has to be stronger than BttH in any case. Weaver can be a very strong offensive line, but it forgoes so much utility in being offensive that it needs a significant increase of damage output to offset it.

The though is to drop the power of elements of rage to buff all the other skills on weaver and core ele. Right now we keep seeing dmg skill getting nerf because of effects like EoR and it will keep happening because of this one GMs.

Yeah, no. If EoR (and weaver's) power get dialed back too much, you'd just end up forcing eles to play Fire/Air/Arcane to stack the damage GMs. And it would suck, as you'd have made both their elite specs useless in PvE. Which is, and have always been, the main focus of the game.

[Ryou.2398]

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Gambino.2109 said:If you want it's damaged shaved that bad so other classes can do comparable damage.. then why don't we bring these other classes Hp down to 11k so it can be comparable survivalilty and everyone can do crazy damage and get wrecked at the same time.

Please let's! Let's make all health pools the same in PvE! I really mean it. Cause at the very moment it's ridiculous how many ppl STILL use this as an excuse for the very unhealthy balance that's still around. While in the PvE endgame it's definitely

THE

single worst defensive ability that you can have. Ivulns, blocks, extra evades, etc. those are the REAL lifesavers, not HP!STOP NOW with this BS!

Omg this happens in every mmorpg, people cannot grasp the very simple concept that the reason they have lower hp because they have tons of suitability through abilities and more, it really needs to stop, not to say ele has much defensive ability though..

[Emberheart.8426]

@Ryou.2398 said:

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Gambino.2109 said:If you want it's damaged shaved that bad so other classes can do comparable damage.. then why don't we bring these other classes Hp down to 11k so it can be comparable survivalilty and everyone can do crazy damage and get wrecked at the same time.

Please let's! Let's make all health pools the same in PvE! I really mean it. Cause at the very moment it's ridiculous how many ppl STILL use this as an excuse for the very unhealthy balance that's still around. While in the PvE endgame it's definitely

THE

single worst defensive ability that you can have. Ivulns, blocks, extra evades, etc. those are the REAL lifesavers, not HP!STOP NOW with this BS!

Omg this happens in every mmorpg, people cannot grasp the very simple concept that the reason they have lower hp because they have tons of suitability through abilities and more, it really needs to stop, not to say ele has much defensive ability though..

If ele doesn't have much defensive ability while having low HP though, doesn't that mean that its survivability is doubly kittened compared to some other classes? Unfortunately ele relies too much on additional heals, which are useless if you get oneshot with your low health. Their baseline healing has also been nerfed several times because support specs became a thing and the devs wanted to make those need healing power. This made damage ele even less capable of surviving stuff. Of course, a PvE damage ele wouldn't want to switch to water anyway, but this stuff affects other game modes too. In competetive modes ele dies if you breath on it unless it invests in tons of defensive stats.

I really don't get why a class with such low HP sucks at defensive mechanics so much. It doesn't even have great mobility either. What exactly does it have going for it outside insane damage on stationary targets?

[Jski.6180]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@Baseraver.7241 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:Why do you want to nerf Weaver? You could kill us in 2 hits if you tried, so stop crying already and l2p.

cant talk for the OP but all im saying is for pve

• revert meteor shower
• nerf elements of rage numbers by a bit

whoever thought weaver didnt need a nerf pre patch was delusional, its just that the meteor shower nerf was not the best way to do it

btw: im playing weaver good enough, i dont need to git gud and l2p

Nerf Elements of Rage, why? We are kinda in a good place at the moment with damage and you want to ruin it.

The problem with elements of rage is that its a dmg effect that add more dmg from having more dmg. It makes power that much stronger on the class. Its an effect that you can never comply balance and will always hold back the weaver class and sadly the core ele class for its max dmg on skills because any one can run elemental of rage and throw all the balancing of skills out of the window.

A free 20% to 25% crit dmg and 10% dmg when you double swap is a lot on a GM. It would be far better to drop the power to crit dmg to 10% and the double swap to 5% to both condi and power dmg at the same time buffing all of the dmg skills on ele and weaver (not tempest needs a major support buff but its dmg should never be that high).

I would not mind them re-looking at the other GM in weaver line as they are not used most of the time.

So basically another Bolt to the Heart. That's boring.

Still very different then bolt to the heart as you need to hit an hp amount on your target to trigger the effect something that is much harder to do in wvw setting due to barrier spame (bolt to the heart is out dated as can be realty all the if hp is lower then x are out dated as they where made as means of conter healing but barrier has thow that comply out of wacked). Dmg to get more dmg is never a good balancing point and i am asking for this effect to be dropped some what and giving a condi effect boost and over all boosting core ele / weaver over all dmg from there skills.

As for the other GM they are not good on there own like elements of rage you need to take other lines to make them usable. I would not call barrier on dodge roll usable at all.

The other GMs are underwhelming, I fully agree. Although my perspective is heavily biased toward PvE. Or, to be more precise, toward dealing damage. So I might very well be wrong here, I'm not really that confident in my ability to estimate the value of defensive traits.

What I don't like about your suggestion is the diminished power of the active component of Elements of Rage. That's kinda gameplay-defining. But it needs to be strong enough for it to be gameplay-defining. Tune it down and it becomes just another passive bonus with imperfect uptime. And again, I think EoR has to be stronger than BttH in any case. Weaver can be a very strong offensive line, but it forgoes so much utility in being offensive that it needs a significant increase of damage output to offset it.

The though is to drop the power of elements of rage to buff all the other skills on weaver and core ele. Right now we keep seeing dmg skill getting nerf because of effects like EoR and it will keep happening because of this one GMs.

Yeah, no. If EoR (and weaver's) power get dialed back too much, you'd just end up forcing eles to play Fire/Air/Arcane to stack the damage GMs. And it would suck, as you'd have made

both

their elite specs useless in PvE. Which is, and have always been, the main focus of the game.

How is that a bad thing? If you want to play as an ele you should not be forced to play as an weaver if you want to play as a weaver you should play as a weaver. Just throwing dmg on weaver is not the right way to make ppl play as a weaver they should want to play it for its swap effect duel skills and stances.

[Ryou.2398]

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Ryou.2398 said:

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Gambino.2109 said:If you want it's damaged shaved that bad so other classes can do comparable damage.. then why don't we bring these other classes Hp down to 11k so it can be comparable survivalilty and everyone can do crazy damage and get wrecked at the same time.

Please let's! Let's make all health pools the same in PvE! I really mean it. Cause at the very moment it's ridiculous how many ppl STILL use this as an excuse for the very unhealthy balance that's still around. While in the PvE endgame it's definitely

THE

single worst defensive ability that you can have. Ivulns, blocks, extra evades, etc. those are the REAL lifesavers, not HP!STOP NOW with this BS!

Omg this happens in every mmorpg, people cannot grasp the very simple concept that the reason they have lower hp because they have tons of suitability through abilities and more, it really needs to stop, not to say ele has much defensive ability though..

If ele doesn't have much defensive ability while having low HP though, doesn't that mean that its survivability is doubly kittened compared to some other classes? Unfortunately ele relies too much on additional heals, which are useless if you get oneshot with your low health. Their baseline healing has also been nerfed several times because support specs became a thing and the devs wanted to make those need healing power. This made damage ele even less capable of surviving stuff. Of course, a PvE damage ele wouldn't want to switch to water anyway, but this stuff affects other game modes too. In competetive modes ele dies if you breath on it unless it invests in tons of defensive stats.

I really don't get why a class with such low HP sucks at defensive mechanics so much. It doesn't even have great mobility either. What exactly does it have going for it outside insane damage on stationary targets?

Did you read my message right? I stated ele does not have much defensive ability im simply talking about how people always apply this to other classes but come on show me an rpg of any kind where a glass cannon is not a glass cannon? Casters with this high amount of dps are meant to survive the least of all classes its a trade off. I have been playing mmorpgs for ages and learned to accept this, however in guild wars 2 classes go down way faster then ot her games ive played so its very annoying with an ele and I agree but that has more to do with the universal design of the death mechanic and second chance to survive which I never cared for and more of a gimmick to me. Id rather everyone just have more defense and hp then a second chance after you die. I mean really there is no real consequence of death in guild wars 2. I love gw2 but I cannot pretend it does not have some questionable design choices, on paper it looked good but in the end something like this only makes things more frustrating,

I am sure some people like it but not me, I find it frustrating and just annoying. I do not like spending my time on my back with crappy tools to survive especially on the ele. So yes I think your right, they need either their defenses reworked, or some kind of hp buff.

Also eles are mobile, atleast dagger/dagger, we also have a teleport in our utility, they are fairly mobile if you ask me, now if you mean fluid mobility well thats another topic.

[Psylocker.5264]

@DragonSlayer.1087 said:Nope. Don't touch the freakin weaver. It's just right as it is now. It takes a highly skilled player to make a weaver work (especially a power weaver).

I moved bck to mesmer because of this, I just cant wrap my head around its full potential dps. Practicing currently using my own rotations and skill to get to a favorable dmg.

[Feanor.2358]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@Baseraver.7241 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:Why do you want to nerf Weaver? You could kill us in 2 hits if you tried, so stop crying already and l2p.

cant talk for the OP but all im saying is for pve

• revert meteor shower
• nerf elements of rage numbers by a bit

whoever thought weaver didnt need a nerf pre patch was delusional, its just that the meteor shower nerf was not the best way to do it

btw: im playing weaver good enough, i dont need to git gud and l2p

Nerf Elements of Rage, why? We are kinda in a good place at the moment with damage and you want to ruin it.

The problem with elements of rage is that its a dmg effect that add more dmg from having more dmg. It makes power that much stronger on the class. Its an effect that you can never comply balance and will always hold back the weaver class and sadly the core ele class for its max dmg on skills because any one can run elemental of rage and throw all the balancing of skills out of the window.

A free 20% to 25% crit dmg and 10% dmg when you double swap is a lot on a GM. It would be far better to drop the power to crit dmg to 10% and the double swap to 5% to both condi and power dmg at the same time buffing all of the dmg skills on ele and weaver (not tempest needs a major support buff but its dmg should never be that high).

I would not mind them re-looking at the other GM in weaver line as they are not used most of the time.

So basically another Bolt to the Heart. That's boring.

Still very different then bolt to the heart as you need to hit an hp amount on your target to trigger the effect something that is much harder to do in wvw setting due to barrier spame (bolt to the heart is out dated as can be realty all the if hp is lower then x are out dated as they where made as means of conter healing but barrier has thow that comply out of wacked). Dmg to get more dmg is never a good balancing point and i am asking for this effect to be dropped some what and giving a condi effect boost and over all boosting core ele / weaver over all dmg from there skills.

As for the other GM they are not good on there own like elements of rage you need to take other lines to make them usable. I would not call barrier on dodge roll usable at all.

The other GMs are underwhelming, I fully agree. Although my perspective is heavily biased toward PvE. Or, to be more precise, toward dealing damage. So I might very well be wrong here, I'm not really that confident in my ability to estimate the value of defensive traits.

What I don't like about your suggestion is the diminished power of the active component of Elements of Rage. That's kinda gameplay-defining. But it needs to be strong enough for it to be gameplay-defining. Tune it down and it becomes just another passive bonus with imperfect uptime. And again, I think EoR has to be stronger than BttH in any case. Weaver can be a very strong offensive line, but it forgoes so much utility in being offensive that it needs a significant increase of damage output to offset it.

The though is to drop the power of elements of rage to buff all the other skills on weaver and core ele. Right now we keep seeing dmg skill getting nerf because of effects like EoR and it will keep happening because of this one GMs.

Yeah, no. If EoR (and weaver's) power get dialed back too much, you'd just end up forcing eles to play Fire/Air/Arcane to stack the damage GMs. And it would suck, as you'd have made

both

their elite specs useless in PvE. Which is, and have always been, the main focus of the game.

How is that a bad thing? If you want to play as an ele you should not be forced to play as an weaver if you want to play as a weaver you should play as a weaver. Just throwing dmg on weaver is not the right way to make ppl play as a weaver they should want to play it for its swap effect duel skills and stances.

It's bad marketing you know. A developer doesn't just want to create a game, they want to also sell it. Useless elite specs aren't a good selling points for expansions.

[Allarius.5670]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@Baseraver.7241 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:Why do you want to nerf Weaver? You could kill us in 2 hits if you tried, so stop crying already and l2p.

cant talk for the OP but all im saying is for pve

• revert meteor shower
• nerf elements of rage numbers by a bit

whoever thought weaver didnt need a nerf pre patch was delusional, its just that the meteor shower nerf was not the best way to do it

btw: im playing weaver good enough, i dont need to git gud and l2p

Nerf Elements of Rage, why? We are kinda in a good place at the moment with damage and you want to ruin it.

The problem with elements of rage is that its a dmg effect that add more dmg from having more dmg. It makes power that much stronger on the class. Its an effect that you can never comply balance and will always hold back the weaver class and sadly the core ele class for its max dmg on skills because any one can run elemental of rage and throw all the balancing of skills out of the window.

A free 20% to 25% crit dmg and 10% dmg when you double swap is a lot on a GM. It would be far better to drop the power to crit dmg to 10% and the double swap to 5% to both condi and power dmg at the same time buffing all of the dmg skills on ele and weaver (not tempest needs a major support buff but its dmg should never be that high).

I would not mind them re-looking at the other GM in weaver line as they are not used most of the time.

So basically another Bolt to the Heart. That's boring.

Still very different then bolt to the heart as you need to hit an hp amount on your target to trigger the effect something that is much harder to do in wvw setting due to barrier spame (bolt to the heart is out dated as can be realty all the if hp is lower then x are out dated as they where made as means of conter healing but barrier has thow that comply out of wacked). Dmg to get more dmg is never a good balancing point and i am asking for this effect to be dropped some what and giving a condi effect boost and over all boosting core ele / weaver over all dmg from there skills.

As for the other GM they are not good on there own like elements of rage you need to take other lines to make them usable. I would not call barrier on dodge roll usable at all.

The other GMs are underwhelming, I fully agree. Although my perspective is heavily biased toward PvE. Or, to be more precise, toward dealing damage. So I might very well be wrong here, I'm not really that confident in my ability to estimate the value of defensive traits.

What I don't like about your suggestion is the diminished power of the active component of Elements of Rage. That's kinda gameplay-defining. But it needs to be strong enough for it to be gameplay-defining. Tune it down and it becomes just another passive bonus with imperfect uptime. And again, I think EoR has to be stronger than BttH in any case. Weaver can be a very strong offensive line, but it forgoes so much utility in being offensive that it needs a significant increase of damage output to offset it.

The though is to drop the power of elements of rage to buff all the other skills on weaver and core ele. Right now we keep seeing dmg skill getting nerf because of effects like EoR and it will keep happening because of this one GMs.

Yeah, no. If EoR (and weaver's) power get dialed back too much, you'd just end up forcing eles to play Fire/Air/Arcane to stack the damage GMs. And it would suck, as you'd have made

both

their elite specs useless in PvE. Which is, and have always been, the main focus of the game.

How is that a bad thing? If you want to play as an ele you should not be forced to play as an weaver if you want to play as a weaver you should play as a weaver. Just throwing dmg on weaver is not the right way to make ppl play as a weaver they should want to play it for its swap effect duel skills and stances.

It's bad marketing you know. A developer doesn't just want to create a game, they want to also sell it. Useless elite specs aren't a good selling points for expansions.

I don't know, this plays into the story that the devs purposely design new elite specs to be more powerful than the previous set just to sell the expansion. It undercuts all the prior work they have put in. That just sounds like conspiracy theory talk to me. I'm more of the mind that there is no need to explain things beyond simple incompetence if that alone suffices. And I don't mean that in a bad way, what they do is likely incredibly complex and difficult.

Expansion packs provide more than just elite specs, and elite specs provide a new way of playing that profession, meta or not. So long as the elite spec is reasonably viable they cannot go chasing the high end meta crowd every time. That is too unreasonable. But that goes for both PvE and PvP. I think many complaints stem not necessarily from Weaver not being PvP meta, but from a lack of any ele build working at a meta level regardless of role. It just happens that Weaver, as part of ele, gets targeted in those conversations along with everything else.

It may behoove the community who likes things as they currently exist to suggest and promote the idea that the next elite spec for ele be more heavily designed with utility and PvP functionality in mind.