Weaver is in dire need of nerf

[steki.1478]

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Blue.1207 said:Why would anyone, ANYONE, ever bring a weaver (ele even) to a group if their damage was nerfed even further than it has? They have absolutely no utility that's worth bringing, or party buffs for that matter. All they bring is damage, and that's it.

Hell you don't even need them in groups outside of speed clears. My static cleared 4/5 wings without a single ele last raid reset.

Welcome to the Thief, Necro (without Epi) and Revenant worlds. It's about time the tables are turned for once (in the PvE endgame), this META hasn't

really

changed for tooooooo long now!And once that's the case, well, I'm sorry for all you Ele mains,

but at least you're still

viable

... (Thief, Necro and Revenant mains know what I'm talking about, how many times they have heard that one before!)

Ah what am I thinking, if ever ...

Thief has elite specs focused on evading and 1-shotting from stealth. None is really useful in raids, but it still has somewhat strong dps builds while evading almost all of the attacks which no other class can do. Core class has no cooldowns on its skills and a lot of ways of regenerating initiative so most of it's play style is spamming the most damaging skill with initiative and autoattack while initiative is regenerating, which isnt very comparable to other classes.

Necro's elite specs are focused on slow but hard attacks and defensive support/boon control. Again, completely useless in content where you want consistent dps and offensive supports. Core class has balance issues in form of huge hp pool + shrouds and stacking to bounce epidemic. You cant make it a strong dps class on its own while those 2 are a thing because it will disvalue every single class in game.

Rev's elite specs are focused on support and dps. First one is useless due to stronger supports who offer same and much more (support scourge suffers from this too), while second one is already a good dps pick.

[Feanor.2358]

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Blue.1207 said:Why would anyone, ANYONE, ever bring a weaver (ele even) to a group if their damage was nerfed even further than it has? They have absolutely no utility that's worth bringing, or party buffs for that matter. All they bring is damage, and that's it.

Hell you don't even need them in groups outside of speed clears. My static cleared 4/5 wings without a single ele last raid reset.

Welcome to the Thief, Necro (without Epi) and Revenant worlds. It's about time the tables are turned for once (in the PvE endgame), this META hasn't

really

changed for tooooooo long now!And once that's the case, well, I'm sorry for all you Ele mains,

but at least you're still

viable

... (Thief, Necro and Revenant mains know what I'm talking about, how many times they have heard that one before!)

Ah what am I thinking, if ever ...

I don't know what you're thinking. I've seen a Staff DD pretty much match my dps in t4. So yeah, they are viable all right.

[Blue.1207]

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@"Blue.1207" said:Why would anyone, ANYONE, ever bring a weaver (ele even) to a group if their damage was nerfed even further than it has? They have absolutely no utility that's worth bringing, or party buffs for that matter. All they bring is damage, and that's it.

Hell you don't even need them in groups outside of speed clears. My static cleared 4/5 wings without a single ele last raid reset.

Welcome to the Thief, Necro (without Epi) and Revenant worlds. It's about time the tables are turned for once (in the PvE endgame), this META hasn't

really

changed for tooooooo long now!And once that's the case, well, I'm sorry for all you Ele mains,

but at least you're still

viable

... (Thief, Necro and Revenant mains know what I'm talking about, how many times they have heard that one before!)

Ah what am I thinking, if ever ...

Thief are top tier in PvP/WvW roaming. They are also perfectly viable in t4's (CM or not) as well as raids (again viable). Necro (sans epi), well hey, heres the thing, you can't just take away one component of a class and use it as an example. To counter that I would say "well Chrono is poop at support without SoI", so yeah no, don't do that. Power Rev's have been gutted, that design decision is on ANET, and something they need to fix. Condi rev however? Completely viable in all game modes (minus pvp), and META in many raid fights.

Nerfing a DPS class that brings zero utility to the levels that other more utility driven dps are is not the answer to anyone's problem. If eles are nerfed to sub performance, be ready for the 6 warrior, 2 chrono, 2 druid comp. You can QQ more then.

[LordTemujin.5498]

Lol ??????

[XxzaverxX.6790]

I absolutely agree let's nerf ele the class that pretty never gets any love from anet and also wants to kill it off to fucking Narnia. Like I love ele, it's my favorite class but I can't enjoy a class nor this game that always gets neglected in PvP. WvW on the other hand staff zerk ele was fun but I've been playing staff ele in zergs for years, I just want something else to play other than staff in zergs man but that will never happen sadly. bash me if you want, that's just me, kay? alright good love you all <3!!

[Arheundel.6451]

This thread still going?...c'mon....asking to nerf this paper thin "profession" which is good only with a staff while being healed non stop or...ressed non stop, what does the OP want to nerf? the class name? lol

[Emberheart.8426]

Nerf it to the ground in PvE, so that it's only useful in WvW zergs, at least until downstate gets removed for good. Then ele will finally be "balanced".

[aspirine.5839]

Nerf weaver?? Really people...

[supreme.3602]

@aspirine.5839 said:Nerf weaver?? Really people...

These people are clueless. Don’t mind them.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

@"Ganathar.4956" said:Nerf it to the ground in PvE, so that it's only useful in WvW zergs, at least until downstate gets removed for good. Then ele will finally be "balanced".

sic

[XxzaverxX.6790]

I hope everyone knows I was being sarcastic on the agree part, everything else I mean it, ele needs buffs in wvw/pvp not nerfs. In Pve, well I'll let you guys handle that lol.

[Agrippa.1693]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Blue.1207 said:Why would anyone, ANYONE, ever bring a weaver (ele even) to a group if their damage was nerfed even further than it has? They have absolutely no utility that's worth bringing, or party buffs for that matter. All they bring is damage, and that's it.

Hell you don't even need them in groups outside of speed clears. My static cleared 4/5 wings without a single ele last raid reset.

Welcome to the Thief, Necro (without Epi) and Revenant worlds. It's about time the tables are turned for once (in the PvE endgame), this META hasn't

really

changed for tooooooo long now!And once that's the case, well, I'm sorry for all you Ele mains,

but at least you're still

viable

... (Thief, Necro and Revenant mains know what I'm talking about, how many times they have heard that one before!)

Ah what am I thinking, if ever ...

I don't know what you're thinking. I've seen a Staff DD pretty much match my dps in t4. So yeah, they are

viable

all right.

@Blue.1207 said:Thief are top tier in PvP/WvW roaming. They are also perfectly

viable

in t4's (CM or not) as well as raids (again

viable

). (...)

Wow, you guys, just completely proved my point!!!

[Kako.1930]

I hope Anet doesn't see this and automatically assume ele is strong in PvP. It's on life support there. :/

[Blue.1207]

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Blue.1207 said:Why would anyone, ANYONE, ever bring a weaver (ele even) to a group if their damage was nerfed even further than it has? They have absolutely no utility that's worth bringing, or party buffs for that matter. All they bring is damage, and that's it.

Hell you don't even need them in groups outside of speed clears. My static cleared 4/5 wings without a single ele last raid reset.

Welcome to the Thief, Necro (without Epi) and Revenant worlds. It's about time the tables are turned for once (in the PvE endgame), this META hasn't

really

changed for tooooooo long now!And once that's the case, well, I'm sorry for all you Ele mains,

but at least you're still

viable

... (Thief, Necro and Revenant mains know what I'm talking about, how many times they have heard that one before!)

Ah what am I thinking, if ever ...

I don't know what you're thinking. I've seen a Staff DD pretty much match my dps in t4. So yeah, they are

viable

all right.

@Blue.1207 said:Thief are top tier in PvP/WvW roaming. They are also perfectly

viable

in t4's (CM or not) as well as raids (again

viable

). (...)

Wow, you guys, just completely proved my point!!!

If your point was to prove that your original point was redundant because the above classes can perform just fine in group settings while opting to bring party utility where as weaver can only bring dps utility without sacrificing an unholy %'age of their DPS then yeah, point made.

[Agrippa.1693]

@Blue.1207 said:

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Blue.1207 said:Why would anyone, ANYONE, ever bring a weaver (ele even) to a group if their damage was nerfed even further than it has? They have absolutely no utility that's worth bringing, or party buffs for that matter. All they bring is damage, and that's it.

Hell you don't even need them in groups outside of speed clears. My static cleared 4/5 wings without a single ele last raid reset.

Welcome to the Thief, Necro (without Epi) and Revenant worlds. It's about time the tables are turned for once (in the PvE endgame), this META hasn't

really

changed for tooooooo long now!And once that's the case, well, I'm sorry for all you Ele mains,

but at least you're still

viable

... (Thief, Necro and Revenant mains know what I'm talking about, how many times they have heard that one before!)

Ah what am I thinking, if ever ...

I don't know what you're thinking. I've seen a Staff DD pretty much match my dps in t4. So yeah, they are

viable

all right.

@Blue.1207 said:Thief are top tier in PvP/WvW roaming. They are also perfectly

viable

in t4's (CM or not) as well as raids (again

viable

). (...)

Wow, you guys, just completely proved my point!!!

If your point was to prove that your original point was redundant because the above classes can perform just fine in group settings while opting to bring party utility where as weaver can only bring dps utility without sacrificing an unholy %'age of their DPS then yeah, point made.

Cool, we're (kinda) on the same page then (it actually adds to my original point, but hey, I'll give you that one). My only wish is, that ANet would spin that around giving it a 180! That classes like Thief, Necro and Revenant are for once top tier in all/most encounters of the PvE endgame ... META in DPS, (offensive) support and/or healing, and that the Ele (this is an Ele forum, so let me address the Ele only here, let me not even start about Mesmer, Ranger, Warrior, because that's a whole different chapter) is more going to be a versatile class, NOT pure and only DPS, where even looking in the wrong direction would cause you to have a huge DPS drop ... Like I said, let them be more of an ... well let's say: Elementalist ... or hell, Weaver even, weird, it actually fits the thematic very well, wouldn't you think? Anyway, they would still be perfectly viable in group play, being some kind of a jack of all trades, just not the most optimal choice in most PvE endgame encounters (like Thief, Necro and Revenant are right now).It's about time they change the tides. This veeeeeeeeery long sitting meta is getting boring as hell, imo! And I wouldnt be surprised if some of you Ele mains would even embrace such a wind of change as well! Yea, change is scary at first, but could well be a blessing in the end!

[Feanor.2358]

Versatile = useless in meta. No, thanks.

[Agrippa.1693]

@Feanor.2358 said:Versatile = useless in meta. No, thanks.

Nah, not useless, just viable .... :D

[Feanor.2358]

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Versatile = useless in meta. No, thanks.

Nah, not useless, just

viable

.... :D

Weaver is kinda viable as it is now. High..ish damage potential. Lots of ways to lose it. Lots of builds with better reliability and practically the same output in real fight unless you're a stellar player. Yeah, it's viable. Is it optimal? For 90% of the players, no.

[Agrippa.1693]

Again, this being an Ele forum, I'd like to be more elaborate about the changes I really hope will come for the Elementalist, it's not just a nerf that's needed, there's imo something intrinsically wrong with the core of the Elementalist. The Ele is in this case too far evolved into the more classical mage archtype (glass cannon spec) you see in most RPG's, whereas I always hoped ANet would see them differently. I hoped that ANet would see the Elementalist (and now as an extension, also the Weaver) as some sort of dynamic class, adapting on the spot to an encounter and/or its environment. The party needs Healing, the Ele attunes to Water, now CC is needed, there's Earth and Lightning, AoE DPS, Fire, etc. And be good (NOT the very best) at all of it in the very same encounter. Instead, you now choose to go full DPS, be the very best at it (in some encounters no class comes even near to its DPS numbers), but changing on the spot to what's actually needed for that fight, say healing, and you'll loose so much DPS, gaining so little healing in return, it's completely not worth it. It's the exact opposite of what imo an Ele should be. It's in the current PvE endgame bombarded as maybe the most static specialized class around, only good for one thing, that you have to choose beforehand (be it DPS, be it Heal, at both you guys are the best of the best!). I can't imagine, there's even one Ele main out here that's happy with that stronghold, but hey, that's me!But I'll get why you guys still go with it in large numbers... it's because you can! You can choose to be the upper gods in DPS. And as long as you are able to make that choice, you will! So imo, to fix things, firstly there should be virtually no encounter/situation possible where the Ele is able to choose one of those best of the best roles at all anymore! Which literally means nerfing its DPS (and maybe even healing as well ... but that's far less important in the current scenario). But that's obviously not all, they need to be compensated, or at least pointed more towards that role that would fit the Ele so well: dynamic Jack of all trades.First of, PLEASE Anet, get rid of the base HP differences between classes (at least in the PvE endgame). I understand the differences in armor, it's why you choose a certain light/medium/heavy class. But the imo very arbitrary HP differences assigned to random classes is a complete riddle to me! Make it all matching to the medium health pool (currently assigned to the Revenant, Engineer, Ranger and Mesmer) please. Effectively buffing the Ele in base HP!Secondly, and this is where I need help to fill in the specifics: make sure rotations are firstly less needed (you are adapting to the situation as is anyway), and secondly less volatile (easy to turn back to your rota without much loss of DPS).So, all by all, a lot needs to be changed imo in order to make the Ele a real Elementalist!

Lastly, for everyone that imo is correctly questioning on the ('role') gap that you then create in the so called 'Glass Cannon' area. Maybe an idea to fill that gap in the next expansion: introduction of a new Mage class?! But then call it: Mage, Sorcerer, Wizard or something. Not Elementalist!OR there's always the option to give that role to the thief (= high risk, high reward ... hmmm, almost sounds like it's actually meant to be like that) OR some kind of dark class (say Necro/Rev), wagering your own health/defenses for high DPS in return (hmmm, wow, also quite the thematic fit there ... almost strange that ANet themselves would not come up with ideas like these from the very beginning!)

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

@Agrippa Oculus.3726

I wonder if you just trying to trigger every ele player here . Cause you bringing a vision of the class that is not realistic at all in the actual state of the game. It was maybe doable when they were no fractals and/ or raids for pve content ... Now you have no use of that kind of class in that game mode.

For WvW or sPvp it could be nice ... but it takes us back to the days of celestial D/D ele that was might stacking as hell ... was super tanky and dealt tons of damage.

The class you describing isn't in a way not balanced at all in some way, or more than garbage if you don't make it strong enough. Base elementalist has it was in ealry guild wars 2 has no reason to be now . That's a why a fundamental rework (to me) is the most important thing to consider = skills , attunements, traits !

[lLobo.7960]

@Agrippa Oculus.3726

What you are suggesting will completely destroy the class in the PvE endgame.PvE endgame is about getting 10 to 5 players, highly specialized in their roles, and overcome content.This means that you will not get a healer that is good, or viable. You will get the best healing class, best dps, best support...That is why you see people asking for chrono, druid, war and dps. That is why you don't see people asking for ele as a healer.

The way GW2 works is that all classes have the potential do do anything. Each do it in a different way, and each can specialize more or less in it.An ele has the best dps potential because it has the lowest basic defense. But to achieve this high dps number the ele really has to abdicate nearly all of its defense. Other classes can't really achieve this potential dps as they have more basic defenses. A necro won't (or shouldn't) be top benchmark dps until it gets a spec that removes both its shroud, lifetap, and higher hp pool.

An ele can try to specialize in healing, and do that it needs to abdicate nearly all of its dmg. And eles make great healers, but druids are better because by going heal they can also offer unique offensive buffs. An ele could probably specialize in defense and be a great tank, but a chrono can also be a great tank (as it have innate invuls and basic more hp) while also providing a ton of utility to the group...So, if you are trying to achieve the best composition to your endgame group, if you want the druids offensive buffs and the chrono utility, why would waste potential dps by placing those classes on a dps role while leaving the elementalist to heal or tank?

Currently you can be an ele healer... I've done many t4 runs and even raid runs as a healer ele, as a might staking condi dps ele, as a might staking healer ele... But those are runs with friends and not PUGs that want a more traditional and optimal comp.

If ele looses its top potential dps spot it will not be welcome in endgame content anymore as it does not have the potential of other classes to be the best healer or tank.

[steki.1478]

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:Again, this being an Ele forum, I'd like to be more elaborate about the changes I really hope will come for the Elementalist, it's not just a nerf that's needed, there's imo something intrinsically wrong with the core of the Elementalist. The Ele is in this case too far evolved into the more classical mage archtype (glass cannon spec) you see in most RPG's, whereas I always hoped ANet would see them differently. I hoped that ANet would see the Elementalist (and now as an extension, also the Weaver) as some sort of dynamic class, adapting on the spot to an encounter and/or its environment. The party needs Healing, the Ele attunes to Water, now CC is needed, there's Earth and Lightning, AoE DPS, Fire, etc. And be good (NOT the very best) at all of it in the very same encounter. Instead, you now choose to go full DPS, be the very best at it (in some encounters no class comes even near to its DPS numbers), but changing on the spot to what's actually needed for that fight, say healing, and you'll loose so much DPS, gaining so little healing in return, it's completely not worth it. It's the exact opposite of what imo an Ele should be. It's in the current PvE endgame bombarded as maybe the most static specialized class around, only good for one thing, that you have to choose beforehand (be it DPS, be it Heal, at both you guys are the best of the best!). I can't imagine, there's even one Ele main out here that's happy with that stronghold, but hey, that's me!But I'll get why you guys still go with it in large numbers... it's because you can! You can choose to be the upper gods in DPS. And as long as you are able to make that choice, you will! So imo, to fix things, firstly there should be virtually no encounter/situation possible where the Ele is able to choose one of those best of the best roles at all anymore! Which literally means nerfing its DPS (and maybe even healing as well ... but that's far less important in the current scenario). But that's obviously not all, they need to be compensated, or at least pointed more towards that role that would fit the Ele so well: dynamic Jack of all trades.First of, PLEASE Anet, get rid of the base HP differences between classes (at least in the PvE endgame). I understand the differences in armor, it's why you choose a certain light/medium/heavy class. But the imo very arbitrary HP differences assigned to random classes is a complete riddle to me! Make it all matching to the medium health pool (currently assigned to the Revenant, Engineer, Ranger and Mesmer) please. Effectively buffing the Ele in base HP!Secondly, and this is where I need help to fill in the specifics: make sure rotations are firstly less needed (you are adapting to the situation as is anyway), and secondly less volatile (easy to turn back to your rota without much loss of DPS).So, all by all, a lot needs to be changed imo in order to make the Ele a real Elementalist!

Lastly, for everyone that imo is correctly questioning on the ('role') gap that you then create in the so called 'Glass Cannon' area. Maybe an idea to fill that gap in the next expansion: introduction of a new Mage class?! But then call it: Mage, Sorcerer, Wizard or something. Not Elementalist!OR there's always the option to give that role to the thief (= high risk, high reward ... hmmm, almost sounds like it's actually meant to be like that) OR some kind of dark class (say Necro/Rev), wagering your own health/defenses for high DPS in return (hmmm, wow, also quite the thematic fit there ... almost strange that ANet themselves would not come up with ideas like these from the very beginning!)

When you need healing you yell at your healer. When you need cc, you yell at warr/mesmer. It's their role and they do that without any sacrifice. What's the point of elite spec if you arent specialised into certain thing (weaver and dps for example). If you have those things ready all the time (holo cc, scourge barrier etc) it's fine, but if you dont then there's no point of crippling your role because others are failing to do their. Yes ele has access to some heals and cc, but you dont join groups as an utility clown, you join as dps so you do dps. Tempest could back up with some heals and cc (and water overloads when everything is falling apart), but it takes too much time for weaver to do that at which point it becomes worthless.

I do agree that base hp/armor difference needs to go. It was maybe good in core game, but it makes some classes op for nothing. It may not be issue in pve, but it's rather stupid in pvp modes. Best example would be warr and necro who essentially have same hp. Most of necro's defense comes from big hp pool, meanwhile warr has around 10 seconds of damage (and some cc) imunity on top of higher armor, while being more mobile and having access to a lot of boons and cc.

When it comes to rotations a lot of classes have skills on 10 seconds which you spam all the time without any significant rotation. The riskier skills that you have to position or time carefuly are also factor in adapting rotations and ele has a good number of those already.

Whether a new mage class/spec gets introduced or not, none of them could compare to weaver's squishiness and time gate on skills. Another reason why weaver is strong is because dmg modifiers stack multiplicatively and it has quite a lot of them, meaning that any additional ones from support classes are a lot more effective on weaver than other classes. So it's not just self effort to achieve good numbers, you also need somewhat competitive allies. Trashing high dps skills on non meta classes just to make them meta isnt helping balance at all, it's making it worse. Power (or even condi) warrior is a proof of that. There's also condi thief and mirage with complete cancer gameplay and almost no interaction with rest of the group, give them might and watch them dodge their way through raids.

Benchmarks mean nothing if your build relies on rng hits, allies doing their stuff. If good results are achieved through good performance and micro managing cooldowns, there's no reason to complain about class. It should be quite opposite, no build should ever perform well if it relies on 2 skills, especially if one of those is dodge. Yet we have those and people still complain about weaver and hard pve content.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:Again, this being an Ele forum, I'd like to be more elaborate about the changes I really hope will come for the Elementalist, it's not just a nerf that's needed, there's imo something intrinsically wrong with the core of the Elementalist. The Ele is in this case too far evolved into the more classical mage archtype (glass cannon spec) you see in most RPG's, whereas I always hoped ANet would see them differently. I hoped that ANet would see the Elementalist (and now as an extension, also the Weaver) as some sort of dynamic class, adapting on the spot to an encounter and/or its environment. The party needs Healing, the Ele attunes to Water, now CC is needed, there's Earth and Lightning, AoE DPS, Fire, etc. And be good (NOT the very best) at all of it in the very same encounter. Instead, you now choose to go full DPS, be the very best at it (in some encounters no class comes even near to its DPS numbers), but changing on the spot to what's actually needed for that fight, say healing, and you'll loose so much DPS, gaining so little healing in return, it's completely not worth it. It's the exact opposite of what imo an Ele should be. It's in the current PvE endgame bombarded as maybe the most static specialized class around, only good for one thing, that you have to choose beforehand (be it DPS, be it Heal, at both you guys are the best of the best!). I can't imagine, there's even one Ele main out here that's happy with that stronghold, but hey, that's me!But I'll get why you guys still go with it in large numbers... it's because you can! You can choose to be the upper gods in DPS. And as long as you are able to make that choice, you will! So imo, to fix things, firstly there should be virtually no encounter/situation possible where the Ele is able to choose one of those best of the best roles at all anymore! Which literally means nerfing its DPS (and maybe even healing as well ... but that's far less important in the current scenario). But that's obviously not all, they need to be compensated, or at least pointed more towards that role that would fit the Ele so well: dynamic Jack of all trades.First of, PLEASE Anet, get rid of the base HP differences between classes (at least in the PvE endgame). I understand the differences in armor, it's why you choose a certain light/medium/heavy class. But the imo very arbitrary HP differences assigned to random classes is a complete riddle to me! Make it all matching to the medium health pool (currently assigned to the Revenant, Engineer, Ranger and Mesmer) please. Effectively buffing the Ele in base HP!Secondly, and this is where I need help to fill in the specifics: make sure rotations are firstly less needed (you are adapting to the situation as is anyway), and secondly less volatile (easy to turn back to your rota without much loss of DPS).So, all by all, a lot needs to be changed imo in order to make the Ele a real Elementalist!

Lastly, for everyone that imo is correctly questioning on the ('role') gap that you then create in the so called 'Glass Cannon' area. Maybe an idea to fill that gap in the next expansion: introduction of a new Mage class?! But then call it: Mage, Sorcerer, Wizard or something. Not Elementalist!OR there's always the option to give that role to the thief (= high risk, high reward ... hmmm, almost sounds like it's actually meant to be like that) OR some kind of dark class (say Necro/Rev), wagering your own health/defenses for high DPS in return (hmmm, wow, also quite the thematic fit there ... almost strange that ANet themselves would not come up with ideas like these from the very beginning!)

You're basically asking why the devs decided to reinvent the wheel since GW1 and the original design of the elementalist...we don't know...we know though it's too late to fix anything and what you ask is factually impossible

[Waisenpai.6028]

Don't listen to the raid babies. Anet just add a raid only minus 10% damage reductions on ele in raids. WvW we really under perform vs meta or apex build. Range 130 is so pve not as pvp or wvw since who will be dumb enough to tank you. Except Mirages cause they can an giggle. Please add enviromental zone damage reduction on ele in raids if you must. Don't skimp the wvw, you need to buff that please it needs love. Or give us arcane fury back traitline fury back.

[Feanor.2358]

@"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:Lastly, for everyone that imo is correctly questioning on the ('role') gap that you then create in the so called 'Glass Cannon' area. Maybe an idea to fill that gap in the next expansion: introduction of a new Mage class?! But then call it: Mage, Sorcerer, Wizard or something. Not Elementalist!OR there's always the option to give that role to the thief (= high risk, high reward ... hmmm, almost sounds like it's actually meant to be like that) OR some kind of dark class (say Necro/Rev), wagering your own health/defenses for high DPS in return (hmmm, wow, also quite the thematic fit there ... almost strange that ANet themselves would not come up with ideas like these from the very beginning!)

This is wrong both thematically and mechanically. Thematically, it is really fitting for the Elementalist to be the glass cannon, not the Wizard. Wizards usually lean much more to the controller role rather than the pure damage. While Fire and Lightning are the first things that come to mind when raw destructive power is mentioned in the context of a game with magic. The darkness theme has its place, but really the raw elements have always been the hallmark of destruction.

On the mechanical side, playing a Thief incurs significantly less risk than playing an Ele. No ground targets, no skills that root you in place for prolonged periods, abundance of evades, no bundles of dps you need to drop on the ground and hope a wanna-be "dps" doesn't greedily pick up. There is no build with higher risk in the game than a dps ele. There has never been, not really. Even the condi engi (which is harder to play well) incurs less risk.