Does Anet hate Guardian?

[SilverArrowsMP.2957]

I have been leveling a Guardian for a bit (level 32) and I think I am starting to get the whole Aegis/Retaliation thing. But that HP pool though?!?!?!? I am starting to understand that GW2 is all about breaking conventions: Ele's with daggers, revenant having a hammer as ranged and staff as melee (cringe), warriors with bows and rangers with greatswords. I get the point. But I still can't figure out the thought process behind making a heavy armor class called Guardian, which any conventional MMO player would assume to be some tanky class, have one of the lowest HP pools of all the professions.

I am trying to get over my "traditional" MMO mindset with this game, but it's frustrating when I feel more survivable on an Ele than I do on a Guardian. Yes, I need to get better, no doubt. I can admit that. But I guess I just don't understand why all meta builds are forced to be melee. High risk/reward, blah blah blah. WoW has some of the best raids I've ever seen and they allow any and every style of class. I know this isn't WoW, but the point still stands. It's more inclusive to all players. I get the reason of melee in GW2 (sharing boons, etc.), but how hard is it to increase the radius of some skills so people who want to play ranged can actually play ranged and not feel like because they choose to do so, they are chastised or, in most cases, not accepted in groups, which in turn leads to lack of progression? I want to play staff Ele and feel like I could raid with it if I wanted to. But no chance. And I have to believe that turns off a lot of players. It's like, play melee or be left out of endgame PVE.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Healthpool is unimportant in Endgame PvE.Solo play could be a problem but we have Marauder gear for that ( Basicly almost full offensive gear with extra health).I cant speak to much about pvp but in WvW Guardians are already very hard to kill and with a higher health poll ... it would be op.

Guardian has Hammer which is quiet good dps and with the right traits lets you have perma Protection ( - 33% dmg).

Believe me. It might take some time but you wont have any problems later.

Btw Scepter on Guardian (which is range) does also good dps. (Whit propper gear and traits).

[Ryou.2398]

Oh man I get so tired of people complaining about the hp on guards, they have tons of suitability tools, they want to make guards fun not boring and sit there and not take hits and not have to work for it this is why its designed this way, they are not meant to be a stereotype like paladins from wow.

[Flintbrow.7985]

Yep, if you are struggling Marauder and/or Valkyries will help. You will be over capped on precision with Zerker (although it has the highest dmg), if running radiance line. I find around 16k is more comfortable fwiw.

[SilverArrowsMP.2957]

@Ryou.2398 said:Oh man I get so tired of people complaining about the hp on guards, they have tons of suitability tools, they want to make guards fun not boring and sit there and not take hits and not have to work for it this is why its designed this way, they are not meant to be a stereotype like paladins from wow.

Wasn't trying to complain. In fact, I'm pretty sure the majority of what I said were simple (and true) observations of my experience so far. And why not contribute something positive or helpful to the topic like the others rather than complaining yourself?

[Snowjob.7245]

Its cause of aegis. Aegis and dodges allow you to negate a lot of incoming damage. You also have easy access to lots of blinds and protective boons like regeneration and protection. That and your high armor class is what makes you tanky not your health pool.

Every class has access to ranged and melee options. Melee (for the most part) does more damage because it is harder to play from melee. You have less time to react to that big wind up attack.

People in group content want you to be in melee because it does more damge and they can all share boons, but also because it is a lot easier to revive you if you are all right next to each other, they dont have to go searching for you, wasting a lot of time to do so if you go down from range.

Also I'd like to point out the flaw in your wow comparison there. Wow does not allow any and all builds. You cannot seriously be expected to dps as a tank or healing spec or vice versa. That is the equivalent of showing up to a raid in gw2 decked out in tanky gear and expecting them to take you seriously as a dps.

If you're refering to how wow lets ranged classes be ranged that often isnt the case either since there are fights that are designed for the whole raid to be stacked or fights that severely punish melee or range by the mechanics. Can you complete these raids as any class? Sure, but it is not optimal and if you are comparing it to meta builds in this game you need to take that into consideration. What is absolutely best, not what can complete the content.

[Josif.2015]

@SilverArrowsMP.2957 said:

Does ArenaNet hate guardian? Of course not. Instead they hate revenant and core engineer.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Go heavy into the Radiance specialization.. It has a trait that causes blind when using virtue of justice, and also a trait which renews virtue of justice when killing an enemy. Do that, and you can keep pulsing blinds over and over against enemies.

[Ryou.2398]

@SilverArrowsMP.2957 said:

@Ryou.2398 said:Oh man I get so tired of people complaining about the hp on guards, they have tons of suitability tools, they want to make guards fun not boring and sit there and not take hits and not have to work for it this is why its designed this way, they are not meant to be a stereotype like paladins from wow.

Wasn't trying to complain. In fact, I'm pretty sure the majority of what I said were simple (and true) observations of my experience so far. And why not contribute something positive or helpful to the topic like the others rather than complaining yourself?

When the topic saids why does anet hate guardians that is far worse then what I am doing so nice try sport. And yes I am complaining you do not like it I do not care, you and everyone else who complains about this do not understand how to play a guardian thats why you you think they need more hp, if you play and learn the class better you would see this.

[SilverArrowsMP.2957]

@"Ryou.2398" said:When the topic saids why does anet hate guardians that is far worse then what I am doing so nice try sport. And yes I am complaining you do not like it I do not care, you and everyone else who complains about this do not understand how to play a guardian thats why you you think they need more hp, if you play and learn the class better you would see this.

Sport... what is this, 1950?

Once again, instead of any contribution, just a "you suck at your class" response. Not everyone in GW2 have been playing extended periods of time. I have logged maybe 30 hours EVER among 4 different professions, so I am definitely a noob. Level 32 on a class gives you no real idea of what it will turn into in post level 80 gear with an elite spec.

I fail to see why you insist on spouting drivel (twice now) rather than just simply giving some advice other than "get good." I created this post as a new player of the class and the game to seek knowledge from others. Why you feel the need to be spiteful rather than helpful is just childish. I would've considered the fact you may be an actual child until you said sport.

[Ryou.2398]

@SilverArrowsMP.2957 said:

@"Ryou.2398" said:When the topic saids why does anet hate guardians that is far worse then what I am doing so nice try sport. And yes I am complaining you do not like it I do not care, you and everyone else who complains about this do not understand how to play a guardian thats why you you think they need more hp, if you play and learn the class better you would see this.

Sport... what is this, 1950?

Once again, instead of any contribution, just a "you suck at your class" response. Not everyone in GW2 have been playing extended periods of time. I have logged maybe 30 hours EVER among 4 different professions, so I am definitely a noob. Level 32 on a class gives you no real idea of what it will turn into in post level 80 gear with an elite spec.

I fail to see why you insist on spouting drivel (twice now) rather than just simply giving some advice other than "get good." I created this post as a new player of the class and the game to seek knowledge from others. Why you feel the need to be spiteful rather than helpful is just childish. I would've considered the fact you may be an actual child until you said sport.

Your being a complete hypocrite first of all I added more then just learn your class, you have no defensive about what you said other then an over explanation of the same crap you have been saying, if you think it is spiteful then you need to grow thicker skin, your reaction is what is childish, I called you sport because of your reaction to begin with ok sport?

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@SilverArrowsMP.2957 I main a ranger. Compared to what I've seen with my class? No. The ranger community expects nerfs with every update and patch. And so far? We're rarely disappointed. B)

[SilverArrowsMP.2957]

@"Ryou.2398" said:Your being a complete hypocrite first of all I added more then just learn your class, you have no defensive about what you said other then an over explanation of the same crap you have been saying, if you think it is spiteful then you need to grow thicker skin, your reaction is what is childish, I called you sport because of your reaction to begin with ok sport?

Your additions to this thread:

• First post: "Oh man I get so tired of people complaining about the hp on guards, they have tons of suitability tools, they want to make guards fun not boring and sit there and not take hits and not have to work for it this is why its designed this way, they are not meant to be a stereotype like paladins from wow."

Is that supposed to be the advice??

• Second post: "When the topic saids why does anet hate guardians that is far worse then what I am doing so nice try sport. And yes I am complaining you do not like it I do not care, you and everyone else who complains about this do not understand how to play a guardian thats why you you think they need more hp, if you play and learn the class better you would see this."

Again, all you are saying is "get good," as opposed to others who have offered advice on gearing, specs, etc.

[Obtena.7952]

You might not like that advice ... but it's true. Guardians rely on active defense ... that means MOST of your sustain is about how you play ... dodging, timing heals, time F3. Sure their are other more passive ways but they are not going to be nearly as effective, especially once you hit level 80. If that doesn't sound like how you want to play, time to reconsider your class before you waste time leveling and experiencing that reality for yourself. Anet has no hate for Guardian ... but players that don't like how it's mechanics work have LOTS of hate for it. Seems your header for the thread needs a revisit.

If you want to facetank your way to level 80, play a warrior.

[Julius Seizure.4985]

Anet hates Guardian so much that the class has Core/Dragonhunter/Firebrand builds highly viable if not meta in all 3 game modes. It is the only class designed well enough for this distinction-- all 3 specs are extremely good in all 3 game modes.

Maybe Anet should start "hating" other classes too?

[phokus.8934]

Only FB is good in pvp at plat+ so I wouldn’t call all three viable in all game modes.

The only caveat is that in lower pvp tiers you can play near any spec and still play decent.

[Snowjob.7245]

@phokus.8934 said:Only FB is good in pvp at plat+ so I wouldn’t call all three viable in all game modes.

Core Medi hammer is also very good. And played well and often in Platinum+

[Best.3479]

no anet does not hate us, but there is not a single person that works at arenanet that cares about our class

[Julius Seizure.4985]

@Snowjob.7245 said:

@phokus.8934 said:Only FB is good in pvp at plat+ so I wouldn’t call all three viable in all game modes.

Core Medi hammer is also very good. And played well and often in Platinum+

Yeah, I would consider Core Medi Hammer as being on the cusp of meta with the usage rate I saw.

Meanwhile, Dragon Hunter is still highly viable, and sees play even at high levels. I have seen several in Plat+ play. Guardian is the most diverse class class where all 3 specs are represented in Plat+ tier by far. Yes, DH is the lowest represented there, but it still exists.

I never ever, not once once, saw:-Core Necro-Core Ranger-Tempest-Core Thief-Core Engineer-Berserker-Core Revenant / Renegade

I saw DH far more often than:-Core Ele-Scrapper-Core Mesmer

The only other class that even had all 3 specs represented was Mesmer. This alone says a lot...

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:Healthpool is unimportant in Endgame PvE.

This seems like an odd statement, but in truth it is (partially) correct. At LV 80 in endgame Tyria maps, and especially in HoT and PoF, a few thousand extra health isn't going to keep you alive, and that is mainly because GW2 takes a very different approach to damage than other MMOs (like WoW the OP referenced ).

Unlike in WoW where you are meant to endure damage, either by mitigation or healing through it, GW2 demands that you avoid damage altogether, either via dodge or other active abilities, and in the Guardian's case, Aegis is one of them.

That said, the quote above is only partially correct as I mentioned, because in order to survive in full Zerk's gear with 11.5K health, you need to be a well practiced player with good reflexes, solid understanding of game mechanics and enemy abilities, and solid FPS / latency. That description doesn't apply to a large percentage of GW2 players though, yet we are all bombarded by the "all you need is Zerk gear" talk-track.

Running Marauder's gear is a nice compromise, balancing your DPS stats with survivability. If you can't dodge or use the Guards active defenses properly, it doesn't matter how much health you stack, you will continue to die. BUT, if you are competent in your gameplay, running some defensive stats will cover you for when you didn't dodge in time, or didn't keep Aegis up, etc

You shouldn't be having too much trouble until you hit the Orr region, so if you're dying in your 30's, I suspect you're trying to facetank damage too often, and you need to practice dodging / using your defensive abilities. To help you can start looking for gear with Soldier stats (Power + Toughness + Vitality) and wear a few pieces of that until you get more practiced. The same applies to your choice of runes.

I personally love my Guardian, and the varied things I can do with him. Keep at it.

Incidentally, the title Guardian isn't to suggest the profession is a plate-wearing Tank that can soak damage, but rather, a profession that helps other team members to survive. You'll see Guardian has many different skills that either add defenses to other players, adds boons and healing, or removes conditions. But none of that means you are a Protection spec Warrior or Paladin meant to eat damage while someone stands back and heals them.

[Stramatus.5219]

Once you get used to playing the guardian, health pool becomes a non-issue.

EDIT: And I agree with the poster above. The way I play my guardian is largely around supporting my party.