Remove this post, too many notifications

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Malediktus.9250 said:I played Wildstar, I doubt it failed because of the difficulty

It failed because it didnt have enough content for monthly sub, many bugs and broken promises on content dropsAfter two weeks in that game it was already down to doing daily grinds to prepare for raids because I had completed every single quest and dungeonThe raids were probably the highest quality in any MMO I played so far

no its pretty well understood that the failure to offer casual content destroyed the player base, attunement and the unforgiving nature of the instance was well cited as one of the main issues. There was a ton of content, including multiple expansions that were ready at release, just nothing for the casual player.

The raids were high quality, but noone played them because the tuning destroyed their playability.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:I played Wildstar, I doubt it failed because of the difficulty

It failed because it didnt have enough content for monthly sub, many bugs and broken promises on content dropsAfter two weeks in that game it was already down to doing daily grinds to prepare for raids because I had completed every single quest and dungeonThe raids were probably the highest quality in any MMO I played so far

no its pretty well understood that the failure to offer casual content destroyed the player base, attunement and the unforgiving nature of the instance was well cited as one of the main issues. There was a ton of content, including multiple expansions that were ready at release, just nothing for the casual player.

The raids were high quality, but noone played them because the tuning destroyed their playability.

Well, I'd say myself that the industry consensus was that what @vesica tempestas.1563 here says is accurate. Individual experiences are, naturally, going to vary, and individual players leave for their own reasons, but the MMO industry as a whole believe that the root cause was making it too hard for what players actually wanted, because they listened to what players said they wanted.

Notably, in response to these issue the difficulties and requirements were tuned down, which suggests, IDK, maybe the publishers agreed with that consensus?

[Malediktus.9250]

Just like GW2 most of the game (Wildstar) was casual imo. Dungeons and Raids were only like 10% of the games content

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Malediktus.9250 said:Just like GW2 most of the game (Wildstar) was casual imo. Dungeons and Raids were only like 10% of the games content

its not really disputed you know, even their devs (the ones that were 'let go') acknowledged afterwords that they screwed up aiming for the old school 'hardcore' approach.

[Nash.2681]

@Draco.9480 said:I'm tired of this post. people enjoy the casual content only so they can farm their rewards only and afraid of harder content. No point debating in anymore. remove this post.Wow, really? Just because people don't praise your suggestion, point out the flaws and tell you what the consequences would be, they are afraid of harder content? Made my day =)

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@"Malediktus.9250" said:Just like GW2 most of the game (Wildstar) was casual imo. Dungeons and Raids were only like 10% of the games content

its not really disputed you know, even their devs (the ones that were 'let go') acknowledged afterwords that they screwed up aiming for the old school 'hardcore' approach.

Yeah, I strongly suspect that WS just didn't get tried by a lot of people who would have been fine with it, having fun and all. GW2 is kind of the same, really: a bunch of people looked at "no gear progression, fashion-wars endgame, no raids" and were all "nope, I'm out."

Even changing the raid situation hasn't really adjusted it that much, given some of the commentary on why people tried it and left after bless and all. Pretty sure a bunch of them would have been happier with the difficulty progression in GW2 and how it is handled than elsewhere, but because it wasn't sold to them in the right way, they decided not to touch it.

Ultimately, though, my point wasn't exactly about wildstar, that was just snarking for fun on top of the real message, which is this: "cater to the hardcore, players will step up" is a surprisingly popular position, and in the long run, it just doesn't happen that way. There is a specific decision: cater to a small part of the community that can do this thing, or make it broadly accessible. Players will generally not skill up to do the thing, if they were not already pretty darn close.

[Solori.6025]

@Draco.9480 said:I'm tired of this post. people enjoy the casual content only so they can farm their rewards only and afraid of harder content. No point debating in anymore. remove this post.

Just so you can be notified that your suggestion for not having notifications is still pending validation. I suspect that you wanting no more notifications is due to your point being met with more negativity and people refusing to side with you on a clearly terrible idea? Also did I mention this is a notification

[Obtena.7952]

@Draco.9480 said:i still don't see what's the point maintaining casual player base if they only come for rewards and not really enjoy the pressure of pve on 'em. you lose more players by maintaining the casual player base cuz the hc players just get tired of boring content.

That makes NO sense. If there are players that maintain their longevity and loyalty for a game, it's NOT the group of players demanding significantly harder content with every subsequent release. Casual players thrive on new content, not the level of difficulty of it. If a casual player comes in, plays the new maps and story line, they AREN'T complaining it's too hard and leave, nor are they complaining it's not hard enough. You don't seem to understand how the casual player thinks, so for you to claim it makes no sense to maintain the player base the whole game is designed around is completely ridiculous.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Draco.9480 said:i still don't see what's the point maintaining casual player base if they only come for rewards and not really enjoy the pressure of pve on 'em. you lose more players by maintaining the casual player base cuz the hc players just get tired of boring content.

That makes NO sense. If there are players that maintain their longevity and loyalty for a game, it's NOT the group of players demanding significantly harder content with every subsequent release. Casual players thrive on new content, not the level of difficulty of it. If a casual player comes in, plays the new maps and story line, they AREN'T complaining it's too hard and leave, nor are they complaining it's not hard enough. You don't seem to understand how the casual player thinks, so for you to claim it makes no sense to maintain the player base the whole game is designed around is completely ridiculous.

I'd also like to point out that of the two -- hardcore vs casual -- one group usually takes substantially longer to complete any new content than the other. Which means not only do they appreciate it regardless of relative challenge, they appreciate it for much longer...

[mortrialus.3062]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Draco.9480 said:i still don't see what's the point maintaining casual player base if they only come for rewards and not really enjoy the pressure of pve on 'em. you lose more players by maintaining the casual player base cuz the hc players just get tired of boring content.

That makes NO sense. If there are players that maintain their longevity and loyalty for a game, it's NOT the group of players demanding significantly harder content with every subsequent release. Casual players thrive on new content, not the level of difficulty of it. If a casual player comes in, plays the new maps and story line, they AREN'T complaining it's too hard and leave, nor are they complaining it's not hard enough. You don't seem to understand how the casual player thinks, so for you to claim it makes no sense to maintain the player base the whole game is designed around is completely ridiculous.

I'm guessing you missed the 70 page thread a couple weeks ago about how casual players felt LW was too hard and demanded it get nerfef.

[Obtena.7952]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Draco.9480 said:i still don't see what's the point maintaining casual player base if they only come for rewards and not really enjoy the pressure of pve on 'em. you lose more players by maintaining the casual player base cuz the hc players just get tired of boring content.

That makes NO sense. If there are players that maintain their longevity and loyalty for a game, it's NOT the group of players demanding significantly harder content with every subsequent release. Casual players thrive on new content, not the level of difficulty of it. If a casual player comes in, plays the new maps and story line, they AREN'T complaining it's too hard and leave, nor are they complaining it's not hard enough. You don't seem to understand how the casual player thinks, so for you to claim it makes no sense to maintain the player base the whole game is designed around is completely ridiculous.

I'm guessing you missed the 70 page thread a couple weeks ago about how casual players felt LW was too hard and demanded it get nerfef.

Somehow that changes the fact that the game should stop maintaining it's casual player base? I guess you are one of those people that miss points.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Draco.9480" said:i still don't see what's the point maintaining casual player base if they only come for rewards and not really enjoy the pressure of pve on 'em. you lose more players by maintaining the casual player base cuz the hc players just get tired of boring content.

That makes NO sense. If there are players that maintain their longevity and loyalty for a game, it's NOT the group of players demanding significantly harder content with every subsequent release. Casual players thrive on new content, not the level of difficulty of it. If a casual player comes in, plays the new maps and story line, they AREN'T complaining it's too hard and leave, nor are they complaining it's not hard enough. You don't seem to understand how the casual player thinks, so for you to claim it makes no sense to maintain the player base the whole game is designed around is completely ridiculous.

I'm guessing you missed the 70 page thread a couple weeks ago about how casual players felt LW was too hard and demanded it get nerfef.

Somehow that changes the fact that the game should stop maintaining it's casual player base? I guess you are one of those people that miss points.

It does perhaps counter your argument that "Casual players thrive on new content, not the level of difficulty of it. If a casual player comes in, plays the new maps and story line, they AREN'T complaining it's too hard and leave", eh?

Which, since it was one of your supporting arguments for this whole "only cater to hardcore players" idea, seems like a pretty gosh darn critical point to me.

[Obtena.7952]

Seems to me that people want to be semantic here ... again ... you think the casual players are more interested in the difficulty of the game content vs. the content itself over the players the OP thinks the game should cater to? No, I don't believe that's true.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Obtena.7952 said:Seems to me that people want to be semantic here ... again ... you think the casual players are more interested in the difficulty of the game content vs. the content itself over the players the OP thinks the game should cater to? No, I don't believe that's true.

Dude.

EVERYONE.WHO.PLAYS.THE.GAME.THRIVES.ON.NEW.CONTENT.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Seems to me that people want to be semantic here ... again ... you think the casual players are more interested in the difficulty of the game content vs. the content itself over the players the OP thinks the game should cater to? No, I don't believe that's true.

Dude.

EVERYONE.WHO.PLAYS.THE.GAME.THRIVES.ON.NEW.CONTENT.

End of line.

[Obtena.7952]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Seems to me that people want to be semantic here ... again ... you think the casual players are more interested in the difficulty of the game content vs. the content itself over the players the OP thinks the game should cater to? No, I don't believe that's true.

Dude.

EVERYONE.WHO.PLAYS.THE.GAME.THRIVES.ON.NEW.CONTENT.

Wow, I'm just going to reveal in you'r inability to think abstractly. Obviously that's true.

I'm not talking about what is most significant to players here. The poster claims that it's more important to appeal to non-casual players through increasing content difficulty because casuals get bored of content. My point, which is aluding you, is that casual players are more interested in the volume of content, not it's difficulty.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Seems to me that people want to be semantic here ... again ... you think the casual players are more interested in the difficulty of the game content vs. the content itself over the players the OP thinks the game should cater to? No, I don't believe that's true.

Dude.

EVERYONE.WHO.PLAYS.THE.GAME.THRIVES.ON.NEW.CONTENT.

Wow, I'm just going to reveal in you'r inability to think abstractly. Obviously that's true.

I'm not talking about what is most significant to players here.

I'm sorry but when you spot stuff like "It's casuals that thrive on new content not hardcore" you're literally spewing nonsense.

[Obtena.7952]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Seems to me that people want to be semantic here ... again ... you think the casual players are more interested in the difficulty of the game content vs. the content itself over the players the OP thinks the game should cater to? No, I don't believe that's true.

Dude.

EVERYONE.WHO.PLAYS.THE.GAME.THRIVES.ON.NEW.CONTENT.

Wow, I'm just going to reveal in you'r inability to think abstractly. Obviously that's true.

I'm not talking about what is most significant to players here.

I'm sorry but when you spot stuff like "It's casuals that thrive on new content not hardcore" you're literally spewing nonsense.

I didn't say anything about hardcore players.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Seems to me that people want to be semantic here ... again ... you think the casual players are more interested in the difficulty of the game content vs. the content itself over the players the OP thinks the game should cater to? No, I don't believe that's true.

Dude.

EVERYONE.WHO.PLAYS.THE.GAME.THRIVES.ON.NEW.CONTENT.

Wow, I'm just going to reveal in you'r inability to think abstractly. Obviously that's true.

I'm not talking about what is most significant to players here. The poster claims that it's more important to appeal to non-casual players through increasing content difficulty because casuals get bored of content. My point, which is aluding you, is that casual players are more interested in the volume of content, not it's difficulty.

Also the casual and hardcore distinction as you define it is not useful.

1. There are tons of players who play 20 hours a week and never set foot in raids.
2. There are tons of players who all they do in GW2 is dedicate 2-3 hours a week doing raids.
3. And there are thousands and thousands of players who are on a spectrum between these two scales.

But when it comes to the people demanding easy mode raids and things such as that, I doubt those kinds of players care about how much new content gets added because these people aren't exhausting existing content. The same 3-4 players in every single thread about easy mode raids and envoy armor. These people are mostly concerned with what sort of interesting things they can pick up off the gem store each week, not in game content in the "Things to do in game" sense.

[maddoctor.2738]

Someday in the future there might be a definition of casual and hardcore player that is widely accepted by everyone and can be used in arguments.Til then, those two words don't mean much, without context.

[Obtena.7952]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Seems to me that people want to be semantic here ... again ... you think the casual players are more interested in the difficulty of the game content vs. the content itself over the players the OP thinks the game should cater to? No, I don't believe that's true.

Dude.

EVERYONE.WHO.PLAYS.THE.GAME.THRIVES.ON.NEW.CONTENT.

Wow, I'm just going to reveal in you'r inability to think abstractly. Obviously that's true.

I'm not talking about what is most significant to players here. The poster claims that it's more important to appeal to non-casual players through increasing content difficulty because casuals get bored of content. My point, which is aluding you, is that casual players are more interested in the volume of content, not it's difficulty.

Also the casual and hardcore distinction as you define it is not useful.

1. There are tons of players who play 20 hours a week and never set foot in raids.
2. There are tons of players who all they do in GW2 is dedicate 2-3 hours a week doing raids.
3. And there are thousands and thousands of players who are on a spectrum between these two scales.

But when it comes to the people demanding easy mode raids and things such as that, I doubt those kinds of players care about how much new content gets added because these people aren't exhausting existing content. The same 3-4 players in every single thread about easy mode raids and envoy armor. These people are mostly concerned with what sort of interesting things they can pick up off the gem store each week, not in game content in the "Things to do in game" sense.

I have no idea what discussion you are having with who. I didn't define anything.

[Raizel.8175]

Wow, this is one of the most clownfiesta-threads I've ever read in this forum.

No down-state would effectively kill off fractals for a substantial part of the playerbase. People are already complaining about a lack of diversity in raids. In fractals, diversity is even worse. Sure, you can balance fractals around very specific faceroll-setups, but that ain't wise. The game already lacks class-identity anyway, so ANet should rather focus on increasing diversity in fractals. Monsters in T4 already hit rather hard if you don't kill them first, which isn't all that easy if you have a condi-heavy-setup. Sometimes, it's pure luck if you die or not since Monsters don't have clearly visible tells for strong attacks - especially not since everything's drowned in visual noise anyway. If you'd were to remove down-state, you'd also have to substantially decrease incoming damage from Monsters, 'cause else, fractals are even more gambling than they already are.

In that regard, it's rather funny that the OP is complaining about instabilities that mess with faceroll-setups, here: instabilities that effectively void Aegis-spam.