Engi July 10 Patch Discussion

[Arcem.7289]

EngineerCore engineer gameplay has had a complex condition-damage rotation for a long time, which paid off with solid damage output. That has fallen off in part due to condition damage tweaks over time and other condition builds eclipsing it by nature of their simplicity. We're adding damage to some core skills, which we hope will entice engineers to take another look at them. Alongside those changes, Thermal Vision, which was the dominant damage option in its tier, has been reworked to offer a better variety of options. Finally, a few elixirs have been updated to remove their random boon, instead granting reduced amounts of all potential boons so that they're more reliable and can be used more intelligently.

• Bandage Blast: Fixed a bug that displayed a much higher healing value than intended when this trait was equipped with Health Insurance. Fixed an issue that allowed bandages to be blocked by enemies.
• Overcharged Shot: The description and tooltip text of this skill has been updated for greater clarity.
• Poison Grenade: Increased the stacks of poison inflicted by each grenade from 1 stack to 3 stacks.
• Poison Dart Volley: Increased the duration of poison inflicted by each shot from 5 seconds to 6 seconds.
• Elixir H: This skill now grants protection for 2 seconds as well as regeneration and swiftness for 4 seconds instead of randomly granting one of them for a higher duration.
• Elixir U: This skill now grants quickness, vigor, and 2 stacks of stability for 6 seconds instead of quickness and either might or fury. This skill will still break stuns.
• Toss Elixir U: This skill now breaks stuns on and grants quickness to allies in the affected area.
• Napalm: Reduced the duration of this skill from 10 seconds to 8 seconds. Increased the duration of burning inflicted by each pulse of this skill from 2.5 seconds to 3 seconds. Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
• Concussion Bomb: Increased the stacks of confusion inflicted by this skill from 5 stacks to 6 stacks in PvE. Increased the stacks of confusion inflicted by this skill from 6 stacks to 7 stacks in other game modes. Increased the cooldown of this skill from 18 seconds to 20 seconds.
• Detection Pulse: Reduced the casting time of this skill by 0.25 seconds, and the aftercast has been reduced by approximately 0.3 seconds.
• Thermal Vision: This trait has been reworked and now grants up to 150 expertise at level 80. Inflicting burning increases the engineer's condition damage by 10% for 4 seconds.
• Reactive Lenses: Clarified the description of this trait to specify that it triggers the Lesser Utility Goggles trait skill as opposed to the Utility Goggles utility skill.
• Excessive Energy: Fixed a bug that could cause the bonus damage from this trait to be applied to characters other than the engineer.

What are your thoughts on this balance patch?I reckon the change on toss elixir U was a huge nerf on engi specially on wvw due to all the pew pews out there. I will miss it deeply and could care less if I can stunbreak allies in a fight with it now.The stability on the drinkable elixir U is pretty nice but I would still give up on that one to have the projectile hate / denial back this is pretty much my only gripe with the changes (other than the fact we didn't get much help on scrappers either)

[Anthony.3207]

In my opinion the condition buffs we're not very strong. They add only a tiny condi damage bonus.

Probably could for pve rotations. Not useful in spvp or wvw

The elixir changes are huge. Now we get our own personal stable and protection healing and quickness.

Toss elixirs U gives allies stun breaks and quickness. Very nice.

The trait fixes are ok. Nothing amazing.

The condition buffs are not good enough but the elixir traits are very good. I think engineer has more solo potential now with elixirs. Also engineer can slightly buff his allies in wvw

Overall a win patch for engineer.

[Anthony.3207]

Ok after some meta thinking - I think the condition buffs make a viable raid / fractal engineer condi DPS build with grenade and pistol kit rotation. But I need to actually test this.

[Tehologist.5841]

Toss elixir u does impact me some, having a wall to hide behind for 14 seconds every 30 was nice when dead eye or ranger was around. I was also curious if the stun breaker on the tool belt only affects allies.

[Silinsar.6298]

"Invulnerability effects will now stop conditions from applying damage."

This might actually one of the most noticeable changes in this patch. If it works for Elixir S, they just removed one of the most glaring downsides of SRD, giving it a crucial buff.

[Ardid.7203]

I don't know if most of these changes are going to help me personally, but kitten, they seem really nice for people that use them. I know the change on napalm seems promising.

[Incognito.3529]

Elixir U open opportunity for support engi/holo. With alacrity its close to permanent quickness and its really easy to use.

[Tehologist.5841]

Does reconstruction enclosure stack duration with prot on elixir h now and will that clear 2 conditions with anti -corrosion plating? No notes on toss elixir h, is it still random?

[Arcem.7289]

@"Tehologist.5841" said:Does reconstruction enclosure stack duration with prot on elixir h now and will that clear 2 conditions with anti -corrosion plating? No notes on toss elixir h, is it still random?

From what I remember it always applied after using a heal skill so in this case we will have elixir H which will proc the protection then this will proc another "stack" of protection on top. Giving you two condi cleanses if you got anti-corrosion plating. Been using hardlight arena and the F1 on heal gyro on scrapper for a long time with it and purity of purpose when doing roaming with my guild.

[Peutrifectus.4830]

Makes me want to test p/p elixir build for a day

[PierPiero.9142]

@Peutrifectus.4830 said:Makes me want to test p/p elixir build for a day

i tried, it is fun but it is not really viable alone ..... i tried also 2 elixir with toolkit for a block. without a block u are really weak to range attack.

[Peutrifectus.4830]

@PierPiero.9142 said:

@Peutrifectus.4830 said:Makes me want to test p/p elixir build for a day

i tried, it is fun but it is not really viable alone ..... i tried also 2 elixir with toolkit for a block. without a block u are really weak to range attack.

I supose that's the downer to losing refect/block wall from elixir U :(

[Tehologist.5841]

The skill was a little too good, surprised we kept it as long as we did. I am trying to figure out what is a good skill to take its place (ranger burst defense) especially if running core, there is shield with 4 second reflect. The CD is a little long without inventions though. Rocket boots for gap closer with rifle 2 maybe?

[Peutrifectus.4830]

Played 3 games so far using p/p, firearms 1/2/3, alchemy 2/2/1, scrapper 3/1/3, elixir H, S, U & B, Supply Crate on Wizard/traveller.

3 for 3 and very fun. Not sure how it would cope in plat though XD

[Amins.3710]

Elixer U toss change sucks balls and will grossly effect every melee player in the game. Huge Nerf to all melee classes. Let the pew pew pew pew be even stronger now. #RangeWars #TimetoPlayRangeragain All you had to do was reduce the fk'n cooldown #AnetStillDoesn'tKnoowHowtoBalanceThierOwnGame2011

[Rezzet.3614]

i have two problems toss elixirs shouldnt be projectiles

not how how to feel bout toss U , it was huge vs pew pew thief and ranger

but if this means they will nerf other profession anti projectile i'd be up for it , but so far nothing points to that happening

condition changes basically gave condi engi like a 2-5% buff

[Aethyl.7519]

Overall, I find most of the changes interesting and warranted. There is however one change that I truly hate, elixir U. Or more specifically, toss elixir U.

That change is in my opinion a perfect example of what I hate about the direction the Engineer class is taking.

We completely lose without any replacement an interesting and unique tool. And that's that variety of gimmicky tools that I love about the class. I used elixir U many times in T4 when my group was lacking some reflects, because I had the option to do so. That's why I play Engineer. To have OPTIONS.

Now, I am pretty sure I will never use Elixir U again because it's just a boring PvP tool. I am sincerely disheartened by that change.

[Lunateric.3708]

@Rezzet.3614 said:i have two problems toss elixirs shouldnt be projectiles

not how how to feel bout toss U , it was huge vs pew pew thief and ranger

but if this means they will nerf other profession anti projectile i'd be up for it , but so far nothing points to that happening

condition changes basically gave condi engi like a 2-5% buff

New thermal alone is a 10% buff so, no.

[Alchimist.4738]

The buffs to core condition Engineer are going in the right direction, but I'm afraid that Holosmith is still the best option, mainly because its rotation is far easier and because of that more consistent.

I'm also disappointed that they haven't touched the sword.

[Vagrant.7206]

My opinions:

• Elixir U change was a functional nerf, rendering the toss skill into purely additional quickness uptime. The projectile destruction and field comboing was eliminated for a small amount of quickness. I'm not a fan of this change, because it reduces the utility of the skill.
• The changes to toss skills for other elixirs was needed, like, 5 years ago, but I'm glad to see they got it done. At least Toss Elixir H now synergizes with anticorrosion plating.
• Poison Dart Volley "buff" makes me lol. They could've at least eliminated the spread.
• Poison grenade change is significant for condi engi rotation, but not enough. Other grenade skills need to be reexamined too -- particularly flash grenade.
• Napalm change... not really a nerf or a buff IMO.
• Concussion bomb changes only matter when confusion matters. An extra stack is a minor difference.
• Thermal vision change is one of the bigger buffs to condi engi, but not enough to bring it back.
• The change to invuln skills functionally buffed elixir S and auto elixir S. Both the skill and trait are significantly better now.

All-in-all... mostly good, with a few missteps. Sadly, it did not go far enough to improve condi engi, which will still be lackluster in PvE compared to its counterparts, and still completely useless in PvP.

Also... scrapper still sucks. Did you forget about scrapper ArenaNet? You know, a whole eSpec that's been garbage for a while now?

[jan.7915]

Tldr they did nothing with this patch but take some fun away for players who enjoyed the elixir as is and Condi is still underperforming. Mesmer still has portal and must have in any game mode.

[Tehologist.5841]

I disagree, elixir u gaining stab was huge and a very strong buff. Elixir h is also infinitely more useful now and fix to invulnerability is great. The only complaint I have is change to toss elixir u as the utility was great in WvW though I do feel the new version of toss elixir u is better in PVP. Poison dart volley now when taken with chemical rounds has a longer poison duration than recharge. Overall I feel engineer was buffed especially holo for PVP stun break with stab, corona burst only gave stab when successfully hit and quickness is a nice boost in damage now can also give AOE quickness to team mates.

[Chaith.8256]

@Vagrant.7206 said:My opinions:.

Also... scrapper still sucks. Did you forget about scrapper ArenaNet? You know, a whole eSpec that's been garbage for a while now?

Hahaha. Scrapper shot me up to top10 very fast after using new Elixir U with Mass Momentum. Scrapper doesn't need a single buff. I laugh at Elixir U haters too.

[ukuni.8745]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:My opinions:.

Also... scrapper still sucks. Did you forget about scrapper ArenaNet? You know, a whole eSpec that's been garbage for a while now?

Hahaha. Scrapper shot me up to top10 very fast after using new Elixir U with Mass Momentum. Scrapper doesn't need a single buff. I laugh at Elixir U haters too.

I see i wasnt the only one who noticed scrapper proforms very well with high quickness uptime when everyones running around with power specs

[insistent.8369]

So with this buffed uptime thing, what build could make scrapper with decent dps?