>25K from stealth in an instant and go back to stealth instantly.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

Since last patch, i have seen so much **** in wvw while roaming that pre mirage nerfs it was more balanced...

[Nuka Cola.8520]

Why is this thread even in the spvp section? Its wvw...totally different game mode.

Are you sure about that? Both are dead and long forgotten by the devs.

[michelada.2947]

stealth in his game is worst implementation i have ever seen in a video game

[SPESHAL.9106]

@killy.3278 said:

@SPESHAL.9106 said:

@killy.3278 said:This is completely irrelevant for spvp. One shot malicious backstab builds are useless outside of WvW.

In the best case, in the time you spend building up malice and camping stealth to down one opponent for 5pt, the opposing team would have gotten 20-30 by capping because your team would effectively be 4v5 on the rest of the map.

In the average case, the opposing team's +1 would likely arrive before you can stomp the other guy, since you gotta take your sweet time to build malice and reposition for an unblockable stab. At that point you run away, or stay and die. The guy you were fighting then gets res'ed, and you wasted upwards of a minute accomplishing absolutely nothing.

So you're basically agreeing that it should be removed from the game. You say it's worthless in spvp and accomplishes nothing of value in WvW, so it's just a cheese build that can be removed without impacting anything important...correct?

I mean if we're all being facetious and completely misrepresenting what people say, putting words in other's mouth and whatnot, then sure whatever you feel like.

All I did was regurgitate your post. You're not really fooling anyone though with your spin about how bad it is to be able to one shot from stealth. You would have been better off just being honest and saying "I run this build and want to keep one shotting people from stealth even if it's bad for WvW and sPvP".

[Rukia.4802]

I'm just gonna point out that you didn't block or evade once after he marked you, you didn't LoS, why weren't you on GS? Camping LB is terrible. You didn't pop signet, you could have ran away once you were marked you have GS 3 and 4 plus soulbeast F2 if using the right pet. You can stealth yourself unmerged with smokescale multiple ways. Also wpvp is completely broken, expecting balance there is a bit silly. Your reactions are slower than grandma.

[Sampson.2403]

On3 $hot 4 Lif3

[Nuka Cola.8520]

@michelada.2947 said:stealth in his game is worst implementation i have ever seen in a video game

The ONLY games you will see it worse is in solo games. How can a game with pvp (that even tried to esports ROFLLLOOOOOL) has the stealth mechanics this broken? its laughable.

[Arlette.9684]

The last few days I’ve been getting bursted like mad by D/X thieves. I mean don’t get me wrong I get bursted equally hard by reapers, holos and rampaging warriors. But vs thief it feels like there’s just no end to the burst. Likely cuz the dagger auto is so fast.

With all that being said, I’m oddly ok with having a few specs that counter my build. Can’t be good against everything, that’s just OP and invites nerfs.

I wish Thief and Soulbeast good luck next balance patch. I hope you get away with it, as easy as Mesmers did. The alternative, I'm afraid is much more grim.

[omgdracula.6345]

I don't get why you are all mad about a professions spec actually doing what it was meant to do. Thiefs are bursty regardless.

[Shadow Order.7258]

Our implementation of stealth is the best of any pvp game out there!

By the way have you seen the new items in our gem store?

[Kageseigi.2150]

@anduriell.6280 said:One shooting people from stealth is not fun

This is where you lose your argument on many different levels, and it's really annoying.

1. This is the PvP forum, not WvW or even the Thief forum. This is EXTREMELY unlikely if not impossible to happen in PvP.
2. One-shotting people from Stealth IS fun... a lot of fun! Unfortunately, it's extremely rare for a Thief... especially in PvP.
3. You may as well have been afk or autorunning. You did absolutely nothing to defend yourself. Stealth had absolutely nothing to do with this. You were marked. That means a Deadeye is around. You should have known that, and started going defensive. So you couldn't see him? So what? I can't see a Ranger at a range of 1,500+ behind me if I don't turn my camera. I may not even know he's there. But if I DO know he's there, I'm going to go defensive. If I don't, I won't complain about getting insta-downed.
4. This is the where your argument completely falls apart. The Deadeye did NOT one-shot you. He clearly roughed you up significantly before this video begins as can be seen in the combat log. He had built up his malice over many hits. That's what allowed him to Backstab so hard. And even then, his Backstab wasn't even strong enough to one-shot you. He had to follow up with auto-attacks. That means you still have a window to evade after the first big hit because he was using Meld With Shadows instead of Basilisk Venom to freeze you in place.

In the end, the Deadeye hit you with at least 4 different attack skills before this video began, and you took at least 9 hits. That is NOT being one-shot. Please don't spread misinformation that is clearly intended to push an agenda. You're just salty. Why don't you try playing as a Thief... then you'll at least learn what it's like to be truly one-shot/insta-downed by foes both visible and invisible. It's par for the course as a Thief... even in PvP.

[Urejt.5648]

u played bad.

First of all this is possible only because u moved in predictable pattern. Try zigzag, use mobility skills right after mark or using about face key. Secondly u could stealth on your own.

Secondly this is possible only in zerk stats so one random hit from your pet and thief is dead.

[bq pd.2148]

@Urejt.5648 said:Secondly this is possible only in zerk stats so one random hit from your pet and thief is dead.

no i had valkyre gear, his pet wont deal 20k dmg.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

@omgdracula.6345 said:I don't get why you are all mad about a professions spec actually doing what it was meant to do. Thiefs are bursty regardless.

Bursty, best mobility in the game, enough stealth spam to reach Ukraine, gap closers with no CD, ports with no CD while the rest have em on ~30sec+ CD, evade spam. What exactly are they missing?

[bq pd.2148]

@Nuka Cola.8520 said:

@omgdracula.6345 said:I don't get why you are all mad about a professions spec actually doing what it was meant to do. Thiefs are bursty regardless.

Bursty, best mobility in the game, enough stealth spam to reach Ukraine, gap closers with no CD, ports with no CD while the rest have em on ~30sec+ CD, evade spam. What exactly are they missing?

the ability to put all what you have said in one build :)

[Arlette.9684]

@Nuka Cola.8520 said:

@omgdracula.6345 said:I don't get why you are all mad about a professions spec actually doing what it was meant to do. Thiefs are bursty regardless.

Bursty, best mobility in the game, enough stealth spam to reach Ukraine, gap closers with no CD, ports with no CD while the rest have em on ~30sec+ CD, evade spam. What exactly are they missing?

First the Soulbeast thread, now thief? I'm finding it harder and harder to take you seriously.

[ChartFish.1308]

My only issue with shadow meld is how it lets the DE burst from stealth then disappear again. Maybe it should be treated like elusive mind and DD dodge, "if you remove revealed using this skill add 5 sec to cooldown".

[megilandil.7506]

@"ChartFish.1308" said:My only issue with shadow meld is how it lets the DE burst from stealth then disappear again. Maybe it should be treated like elusive mind and DD dodge, "if you remove revealed using this skill add 5 sec to cooldown".

no, this shit have to be remo9ved completely.revealed is a not universal acces way to counterplay the broken stealth mechanic and puting a counter to it is ridiculous

being more exact, stealth have to be removed or completely reworked to a non combat utility

[omgdracula.6345]

@Nuka Cola.8520 said:

@omgdracula.6345 said:I don't get why you are all mad about a professions spec actually doing what it was meant to do. Thiefs are bursty regardless.

Bursty, best mobility in the game, enough stealth spam to reach Ukraine, gap closers with no CD, ports with no CD while the rest have em on ~30sec+ CD, evade spam. What exactly are they missing?

It is funny how obviously little you know about thief. While we have all those tools we have to sacrifice damage to use them. Wanna stealth up? That is initiative. Fly across the map? Initiative.

All other classes have all of that split across cooldowns or just built into dodges LOL

[Simonoly.4352]

The counter to this is to randomly dodge, activate your signet and GS block in the hope that the DE picks a poor time to attempt that backstab...

...only kidding, honestly you were always going to die here. The DE can stealth indefinitely and stick to you easily plus probably had full malice from the rifle skills used on you before hand. The best thing to do in WvW when you're marked and a DE has full malice on you is to try and get into a tower or keep to let the mark decay or force the DE to switch targets as they're bored of waiting for you to come out - you couldn't do this because you had no safe objective near you so you were always going to die. Malicious backstabs hit for 20K plus usually (the hardest I've seen is 24.2K against a 3.1K armoured target with no vulnerability) so it's not something you can really recover from or rely on auto-procs to handle for you in order to force the DE out of stealth for a possible retaliatory burst. Of course, if your reaction speeds had been slightly more ungodly, you could have hammered signet of stone just after the first backstab....but that's just delaying the inevitable really.

Ehh don't worry about. DE is pretty niche in WvW and generally WvW is a mess of balance anyway.

[babazhook.6805]

from a Ranger perspective try TAUNT over sic em when combatting a stealthed foe. Entangle and other IMMOB skills that do not need targets (muddy terrain) are also useful.

It also worth pointing out that a great Counter to a Sniper DE is another sniper DE that is built to take them out. As example in very general terms when a more robust DE is battling another Glass D the latter is using his alternate attacks to try and build malice for his singlar backstab or DJ. A more "robust" snipercan use those Malice building attacks to take that DE out directly without having to use his malice attack.

I have had more then a few occasions occur where I was playing Cat and mouse with another DE , his build glass mine a bit hardier. I could survive his malice build attacks , dodge or stealth prior to the DJ and take him out with a singular TRB as it follows him into stealth.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

@megilandil.7506 said:

@"ChartFish.1308" said:My only issue with shadow meld is how it lets the DE burst from stealth then disappear again. Maybe it should be treated like elusive mind and DD dodge, "if you remove revealed using this skill add 5 sec to cooldown".

no, this kitten have to be remo9ved completely.revealed is a not universal acces way to counterplay the broken stealth mechanic and puting a counter to it is ridiculous

being more exact, stealth have to be removed or completely reworked to a non combat utility

Thief is a very very misterious class that not many people know about.

[Rezzet.3614]

@Nuka Cola.8520 said:

@megilandil.7506 said:

@"ChartFish.1308" said:My only issue with shadow meld is how it lets the DE burst from stealth then disappear again. Maybe it should be treated like elusive mind and DD dodge, "if you remove revealed using this skill add 5 sec to cooldown".

no, this kitten have to be remo9ved completely.revealed is a not universal acces way to counterplay the broken stealth mechanic and puting a counter to it is ridiculous

being more exact, stealth have to be removed or completely reworked to a non combat utility

Thief is a very very misterious class that not many people know about.

theres no mistery to thief all builds run the same thing condi = perma stealth , Power= perma stealth the exception being daredevil damage evade spam builds wich still have lengthy stealth

any of the build variants takes critical damage? stealth and shadowstep to another continent

either damage has to be toned down or stealth has to be toned down

thief being squishy is the cheapest most overused non excuse , ranger and engi are just as squishy with dps gear , the diference is engi sustain relies on protection uptime , rangers is mixed between pets and boons , you can counter engi sustain and burst them by simply boonstealing , cant do that against a thief .

[Swagg.9236]

@"MUDse.7623" said:that was WvW not spvp. the build used there you wont see in spvp because it is way to reliant on stealth wich is pretty stupid in spvp. different modes, different playstyles. you have way more time and way more space to fight in WvW. soo wrong forum.

you and your holo (with Merciless Legend title so prolly not full noob) of whom i wasnt sure if he had lock on were in your buffed camp so ofc i fought cautiously. you didnt show the malice buildup in the video that was before.

Stealth is an annoying meme mechanic as it functions in GW2, and unilaterally opens up into a huge burst chain no matter which class utilizes it. Rangers go from stealth into burst; mesmers do it; thieves do it; even engineers did it to an extent back in the day. Moreover, the most frustrating thing about playing against stealth in GW2 is how passive a stealth-user can afford to be while a target who doesn't have stealth has to constantly do guesswork throughout the entire stealth chain since re-engagement from stealth is always instantaneous if played """well""" or """correctly.""" The fact that anyone can just instantly activate perfect invisibility, linger in it for up to 20 seconds and then re-engage from range without any warning or risk to the user is a total joke of a design when framed within a player vs player encounter. Stats don't matter--not even skill matters at that point. Everything is put behind such a huge margin afforded to the guy who rolled the class with stealth, especially if that guy chooses deliberately to fight a class without it.

[Sereath.1428]

To be fair stealth has always been borderline overpowered and will continue to be unfortunately. It needs to be reworked, I've played a good amount of other MMOs and other game genres and stealth here is indeed way too good. It needs drawbacks (reduced movement speed, reduced outgoing damage, character silhouette at all times, etc). It's an absolutely effortless mechanic with the highest reward.