Why did we nerf Core Thief?

[InsaneQR.7412]

In contrast they buffed core thief with the balance pass before they nerfed dagger.Personally i think death blossom and hesrtseeker could get some love as well as dagger 4 could, but the nerf on AA wasnt the worst change i havent seen. Its not good but somewhat understandable after they buffed Deadly arts.

[Jack Redline.5379]

@InsaneQR.7412 said:In contrast they buffed core thief with the balance pass before they nerfed dagger.Personally i think death blossom and hesrtseeker could get some love as well as dagger 4 could, but the nerf on AA wasnt the worst change i havent seen. Its not good but somewhat understandable after they buffed Deadly arts.

Let me just for a second tear you out of your illusion. They havent buff Deadly arts. They have adjusted Deadly arts to Deadeye elite. Which cant be described as buff.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@InsaneQR.7412 said:In contrast they buffed core thief with the balance pass before they nerfed dagger.Personally i think death blossom and hesrtseeker could get some love as well as dagger 4 could, but the nerf on AA wasnt the worst change i havent seen. Its not good but somewhat understandable after they buffed Deadly arts.

The complaints aren't about MH dagger's damage cuts in PvE so much as the nerfs to DA and how rather than nerfing DE which the insanely-high damage was exclusive to, they just nerfed core after breaking the specific combo of EW/MBS.

ANet is addressing symptoms and not real problems.

[Crab Fear.1624]

complaints when the built brings no team utility that other specs are not on par with DPS...lol

[Kageseigi.2150]

@"InsaneQR.7412" said:In contrast they buffed core thief with the balance pass before they nerfed dagger.

Poor Core Thief... it got absolutely gutted in the July 10th patch... especially in PvP/WvW.

About the only thing that improved for Core Thief was PvE boss fights.

[Razi.6031]

Since this fix has been made to counter the power creep deadeye has received, why couldn't they make the nerf provisional to only taking effect if you use the DE traitline.

[starlinvf.1358]

@Razi.6031 said:Since this fix has been made to counter the power creep deadeye has received, why couldn't they make the nerf provisional to only taking effect if you use the DE traitline.

Because its bad way of going about it, just like when they did it with scourge and dhuum fire.

Exitus.3297 brings up a huge point here...... the backstab after cast change is pretty big deal if you're looking at the DPS numbers of an optimal rotation, or just spike damage opportunity following up on the backstab. It also makes chaining a lot faster, assuming your initiative holds out to rebuild the malice stacks. Its shifting damage dependency away from the auto attack, and more into chaining malicious backstab for DE. For Core thief its theoretically better unload potential for smoother combat flow.

As for the damage nerf to the auto chain, thats actually to force more of the damage to be back loaded, and force people to complete the chain to get the most damage out of it. This back loading change isn't new...... I distinctly remember some rotation that used to call for interrupting the auto chain, because it actually hurt DPS. Daredevil's Elite also used to have most its damage in the second attack. Nearly every guide was saying to only do the first 2 attacks, and go into another high damage skill instead. Soulbeast dagger is also strongly back loaded, and its attack chain is 4 instead of the usual 3.

[epoc.7941]

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Daccura.4769 said:I still don't understand the idea about this change - Anet says they don't want meta dps builds and give people more variety yet they nerf the Core Thief.

I just wanted to share my thoughts here. What do you Thief players think about this change?

The nerf to Swindler's Equilibrium is justified from my point of view. It was kind of cheesy to just evade an attack and you instantly have a second steal. Thanks to this nerf, core thieves will have to think twice before mindlessly using Steal just so they can deal damage. Steal should for the most part be used for interrupting healing skills.

@Daccura.4769 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Daccura.4769 said:I still don't understand the idea about this change - Anet says they don't want meta dps builds and give people more variety yet they nerf the Core Thief.

I just wanted to share my thoughts here. What do you Thief players think about this change?

The nerf to Swindler's Equilibrium is justified from my point of view. It was kind of cheesy to just evade an attack and you instantly have a second steal. Thanks to this nerf, core thieves will have to think twice before mindlessly using Steal just so they can deal damage. Steal should for the most part be used for interrupting healing skills.

The latest nerf to d/d affects PvE only, not WvW or sPvP. I'm sorry I should have make my point of view clearer in my post: I've meant PvE.

@Daccura.4769 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Daccura.4769 said:I still don't understand the idea about this change - Anet says they don't want meta dps builds and give people more variety yet they nerf the Core Thief.

I just wanted to share my thoughts here. What do you Thief players think about this change?

The nerf to Swindler's Equilibrium is justified from my point of view. It was kind of cheesy to just evade an attack and you instantly have a second steal. Thanks to this nerf, core thieves will have to think twice before mindlessly using Steal just so they can deal damage. Steal should for the most part be used for interrupting healing skills.

The latest nerf to d/d affects PvE only, not WvW or sPvP. I'm sorry I should have make my point of view clearer in my post: I've meant PvE.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@epoc.7941 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Daccura.4769 said:I still don't understand the idea about this change - Anet says they don't want meta dps builds and give people more variety yet they nerf the Core Thief.

I just wanted to share my thoughts here. What do you Thief players think about this change?

The nerf to Swindler's Equilibrium is justified from my point of view. It was kind of cheesy to just evade an attack and you instantly have a second steal. Thanks to this nerf, core thieves will have to think twice before mindlessly using Steal just so they can deal damage. Steal should for the most part be used for interrupting healing skills.

@Daccura.4769 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Daccura.4769 said:I still don't understand the idea about this change - Anet says they don't want meta dps builds and give people more variety yet they nerf the Core Thief.

I just wanted to share my thoughts here. What do you Thief players think about this change?

The nerf to Swindler's Equilibrium is justified from my point of view. It was kind of cheesy to just evade an attack and you instantly have a second steal. Thanks to this nerf, core thieves will have to think twice before mindlessly using Steal just so they can deal damage. Steal should for the most part be used for interrupting healing skills.

The latest nerf to d/d affects PvE only, not WvW or sPvP. I'm sorry I should have make my point of view clearer in my post: I've meant PvE.

@Daccura.4769 said:

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@Daccura.4769 said:I still don't understand the idea about this change - Anet says they don't want meta dps builds and give people more variety yet they nerf the Core Thief.

I just wanted to share my thoughts here. What do you Thief players think about this change?

The nerf to Swindler's Equilibrium is justified from my point of view. It was kind of cheesy to just evade an attack and you instantly have a second steal. Thanks to this nerf, core thieves will have to think twice before mindlessly using Steal just so they can deal damage. Steal should for the most part be used for interrupting healing skills.

The latest nerf to d/d affects PvE only, not WvW or sPvP. I'm sorry I should have make my point of view clearer in my post: I've meant PvE.

Since you apparently didn't read the thread:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@InsaneQR.7412 said:In contrast they buffed core thief with the balance pass before they nerfed dagger.Personally i think death blossom and hesrtseeker could get some love as well as dagger 4 could, but the nerf on AA wasnt the worst change i havent seen. Its not good but somewhat understandable after they buffed Deadly arts.

The complaints aren't about MH dagger's damage cuts in PvE so much as the nerfs to DA and how rather than nerfing DE which the insanely-high damage was exclusive to, they just nerfed core after breaking the specific combo of EW/MBS.

ANet is addressing symptoms and not real problems.

[Cougre.6543]

@Daccura.4769 said:The thing is you can achieve almost the same amount of dps with Rifle too and not just D/D. Rifle is slightly behind.Rifle should definitely be ahead of daggers, since it carries more limitations.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Cougre.6543 said:

@Daccura.4769 said:The thing is you can achieve almost the same amount of dps with Rifle too and not just D/D. Rifle is slightly behind.Rifle should definitely be ahead of daggers, since it carries more limitations.

It also carries risk-aversion with the long range and CC/kiting potential.

[Cougre.6543]

@Daccura.4769 said:It also carries risk-aversion with the long range and CC/kiting potential.Range is a double-edged sword. Sure it helps in edge cases, but most of the time you lose out on group boons and heals, ending up with less damage. I'd hardly call it a boon.I don't see much CC on the rifle build since your utilities are mainly taken up by stealth skills, and signets that are a big chunk of damage.If you're kiting your dps tanks as well. As it is I'd say its damage potential is balanced fairly by its limitations.

[Vornollo.5182]

Wait, wait, wait... What..?Rifle carries more limitations than D/D?When did that happen..?

Anyhow, something that has a ranged advantage, should definitely not be doing better than something that's melee range. Not on thief anyway. Being in melee range as a Thief carries way more risk and that should be rewarded in one way or another.

Also, you don't lose out on a lot of group boons and healing and the like, provided you position yourself properly.In PvE too, aside of certain mechanics that may force you away from said boons and healing, but that's an issue everyone has regardless of their range (or lack thereof).

I'm sorry, I just don't see a reason as to why Rifle should outpace D/D in any way.