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Holosmith and Spellbreaker sustain is far too high

Arheundel.6451

By Arheundel.6451
in Player vs. Player

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Zero.3871

Zero.3871

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@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:I see holo players jumping into any fight without second thought,
that feeling of invincibility is what's wrong
, nobody should feel like a god at every turn during all match, players tend to develop a rather unhealthy vision of gameplay.

Currently there are too many safety nets around holosmith too many get of jail for free and all is accessible with min level of skill investment...that's why holosmith is meta and herald and weaver are not.

That being said...Engie doesn't need a total rework...The mobility is prolly what needs to be nerfed. They have far too many rocket boot et al type movement boosts on far too short a cooldown.

...

The only mobility skill like "rocket boots et al" that we have is... Rocket Boots. If that qualifies the whole class as "high mobility" to you, let me show what a thief can do with their bow.

@"Hot Boy.7138" said:Holosmith's resilience is off the charts. They have a lot of damage mitigation, healing, stealth, invulns. It's really over the top.

Man, I wish I could play this imaginary holosmith everybody comes up with.

Holo is the most survivable bruiser build right after SB, yet it does significantly higher damage and ton of CC. It currently outperforms weaver, reaper SB and core guardian as a bruiser build. It also has no weaknesses. It is not susceptible to focus fire, has strong condi removal, access to many boons with long durations. Multiple CC breaks and stability.

I've never played this mystical holo you speak of. Maybe I'm just not doing it right after maining engineer for 6 years now.
  • Can you have power damage? Yes!
  • Can you have condi damage? Yes!
  • Can you have a ton of stability and stunbreaks? Yes!
  • Can you be really mobile? Yes!
  • Can you tank power damage really well? Yes!
  • Can you tank condi damage really well? Yes!
  • Can you have a ton of CC? Yes!
  • Can you have a ton of stealth? Yes!

But you can only pick 2 out of these 8, and you may be able to scrape in the CC as a bonus. The meta builds allow you to survive well against one type of damage and dish out a good amount of power or condi damage:
  • Conversion holo protects heavily against condi, vulnerable to power spikes and corruption. It dishes out good power damage.
  • Static Protection protects heavily against power, vulnerable to condi spikes and corruption. It dishes out good power damage.
  • Any non-standard build (IE a decapper with rocket boots) sacrifices either damage or survivability in a fight for that mobility. A common replacement in builds is elixir U for extra damage output, but costs a reduction in survivability.

This is part of engineer's design -- having the right tools for the job. The class (at least in theory) is supposed to have a lot of variation. But there's always an opportunity cost. Now if only they could add some of that variation to core or scrapper... Grumble.

You can learn the tells for what the holo's build is based on the different utilities they're using. See lightning flying out from them, a photon wall, or something similar? They're on static protection and vulnerable to condis. See an elixir gun and a thumper turret (or turret shield)? They're on conversion holo and vulnerable to power. Or just learn the cooldowns. There are long periods where holos are more vulnerable than usual because they have long cooldowns on skills like hard light arena. Wait for that stuff to run out, or purposely try to trigger it and then run away, so they're more vulnerable.

Also, I just want to point out a few things:
  • Good spellbreakers tend to win fights against holos, provided they know how to rotate properly and engage/disengage as needed. Also... rampage. Ugh.
  • Reaper can do just fine against holo if they use their CC's right. Most holo builds are very susceptible to corruption and CC chaining.
  • Core guardian builds are not bruisers right now. They are spike builds.

A reaper will just get CC chained to death by a Holo.

And a reaper can CC chain a holo to death.

What's the reaper CC chain that's killing your Holo?

Depends on what weapon sets they're using, but if they catch me while I'm on cooldown, they usually pull with greatsword, hit with the executioner's scythe, spin2win, fear with Reaper #3, use "Chilled to the bone!", and follow it up with a daze from warhorn or fear from staff.

All told, that's 5 CCs in a row from a relatively "meta" build. Holo only has 4, and they're not quite as chainable as that.

So you're saying ..you lose to a reaper when caught off guard and with everything on CD...this is the definition of strawman

No, I'm saying I lose to a reaper when they get their timing right. Say I stunbreak right as they're casting the next CC -- I might as well have not had the stunbreak in that case. In cases like that, it really just becomes a 50/50. If I sneak up on the reaper, they're likely to lose. If they sneak up on me, I'm likely to lose.

how is that possible? a holo has with corona burst 66 % uptime on stability. every 6 seconds recast. the cc chain of holo is rifle 4 (14 sec cd), forged form 5 15 sec cd, elite that skills have also MORE range on cc AND way lower cds than reaper. so a holo can way better chain cc permanently than reaper that have RS 5 (30 sec cd), rs 3 (25 sec cd), chilll to the bones (90 sec cd). also GS 5 has 25 sec cd.

if you compare holo and reaper

Photon forge(PF) 2 600 range leap 2 sec cdRS 2 600 range leap 6 sec cd

PF 3 stability on 6 sec cdRS3 stability on 25 sec cd

PF 5 5 enemies stunned in 600 range radius 15 sec cdRS 5 1 enemy stunned in 240 range on 30 sec cd

holo is like reaper with 1/3 the cds and WAY more stability AND mobility AND Sustain.and since everyone in this game is saying reaper is FINE. holosmith (that is obvious 3 times better) is simply OP.

I love it! Based on what you've said, Holosmith spends all fight every fight in Photon Forge, never leaving. How else would we keep permanent 66% uptime on stability, just staying in good old Photon Forge which has no counter mechanism right?

Can we fly too?

Seriously though, you can compare classes, but Holo and Reaper fill two different roles. I don't see a reaper on my team and think "Crap I need to switch or we'll be disadvantaged, because I'm worth three of these reapers!" You can compare them, but it's apples to oranges.

I'm just about done with this thread though. Clearly, it's popular with gold-tier players to just say "Holo has it all, always." Without taking time to understand the spec, its counterbalance and exactly what makes it strong right now.

Last time I'll say it: Yes, it's overperforming a bit right now, but every Holo build in the meta has a counter, which means it's not crazy OP. Holo needs a few shaves, but only if a few other specs get shaved as well.

/Done. Good luck all.

ahahahahahhaaaa xD, yes if you leave forged form you can just use Elixier s until you can enter it the next time, or your Shield block (both also negate stunn effects), or your invis, or your 50% dmg reduction + perma every boon (including protection so that you with all effects stacked just got 20% dmg of the initial hit). common. holo has already Sustain like a warrior, and thats more than enough to re enter forged form. so you are never in danger of stunns.

Take a ride aboard the hyperbole train!

Wooo wooooooooo!

hyperbole? does engi not have anything i wrote?

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Etheri.5406

Etheri.5406

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@Zero.3871 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:I see holo players jumping into any fight without second thought,
that feeling of invincibility is what's wrong
, nobody should feel like a god at every turn during all match, players tend to develop a rather unhealthy vision of gameplay.

Currently there are too many safety nets around holosmith too many get of jail for free and all is accessible with min level of skill investment...that's why holosmith is meta and herald and weaver are not.

That being said...Engie doesn't need a total rework...The mobility is prolly what needs to be nerfed. They have far too many rocket boot et al type movement boosts on far too short a cooldown.

...

The only mobility skill like "rocket boots et al" that we have is... Rocket Boots. If that qualifies the whole class as "high mobility" to you, let me show what a thief can do with their bow.

@"Hot Boy.7138" said:Holosmith's resilience is off the charts. They have a lot of damage mitigation, healing, stealth, invulns. It's really over the top.

Man, I wish I could play this imaginary holosmith everybody comes up with.

Holo is the most survivable bruiser build right after SB, yet it does significantly higher damage and ton of CC. It currently outperforms weaver, reaper SB and core guardian as a bruiser build. It also has no weaknesses. It is not susceptible to focus fire, has strong condi removal, access to many boons with long durations. Multiple CC breaks and stability.

I've never played this mystical holo you speak of. Maybe I'm just not doing it right after maining engineer for 6 years now.
  • Can you have power damage? Yes!
  • Can you have condi damage? Yes!
  • Can you have a ton of stability and stunbreaks? Yes!
  • Can you be really mobile? Yes!
  • Can you tank power damage really well? Yes!
  • Can you tank condi damage really well? Yes!
  • Can you have a ton of CC? Yes!
  • Can you have a ton of stealth? Yes!

But you can only pick 2 out of these 8, and you may be able to scrape in the CC as a bonus. The meta builds allow you to survive well against one type of damage and dish out a good amount of power or condi damage:
  • Conversion holo protects heavily against condi, vulnerable to power spikes and corruption. It dishes out good power damage.
  • Static Protection protects heavily against power, vulnerable to condi spikes and corruption. It dishes out good power damage.
  • Any non-standard build (IE a decapper with rocket boots) sacrifices either damage or survivability in a fight for that mobility. A common replacement in builds is elixir U for extra damage output, but costs a reduction in survivability.

This is part of engineer's design -- having the right tools for the job. The class (at least in theory) is supposed to have a lot of variation. But there's always an opportunity cost. Now if only they could add some of that variation to core or scrapper... Grumble.

You can learn the tells for what the holo's build is based on the different utilities they're using. See lightning flying out from them, a photon wall, or something similar? They're on static protection and vulnerable to condis. See an elixir gun and a thumper turret (or turret shield)? They're on conversion holo and vulnerable to power. Or just learn the cooldowns. There are long periods where holos are more vulnerable than usual because they have long cooldowns on skills like hard light arena. Wait for that stuff to run out, or purposely try to trigger it and then run away, so they're more vulnerable.

Also, I just want to point out a few things:
  • Good spellbreakers tend to win fights against holos, provided they know how to rotate properly and engage/disengage as needed. Also... rampage. Ugh.
  • Reaper can do just fine against holo if they use their CC's right. Most holo builds are very susceptible to corruption and CC chaining.
  • Core guardian builds are not bruisers right now. They are spike builds.

A reaper will just get CC chained to death by a Holo.

And a reaper can CC chain a holo to death.

What's the reaper CC chain that's killing your Holo?

Depends on what weapon sets they're using, but if they catch me while I'm on cooldown, they usually pull with greatsword, hit with the executioner's scythe, spin2win, fear with Reaper #3, use "Chilled to the bone!", and follow it up with a daze from warhorn or fear from staff.

All told, that's 5 CCs in a row from a relatively "meta" build. Holo only has 4, and they're not quite as chainable as that.

So you're saying ..you lose to a reaper when caught off guard and with everything on CD...this is the definition of strawman

No, I'm saying I lose to a reaper when they get their timing right. Say I stunbreak right as they're casting the next CC -- I might as well have not had the stunbreak in that case. In cases like that, it really just becomes a 50/50. If I sneak up on the reaper, they're likely to lose. If they sneak up on me, I'm likely to lose.

how is that possible? a holo has with corona burst 66 % uptime on stability. every 6 seconds recast. the cc chain of holo is rifle 4 (14 sec cd), forged form 5 15 sec cd, elite that skills have also MORE range on cc AND way lower cds than reaper. so a holo can way better chain cc permanently than reaper that have RS 5 (30 sec cd), rs 3 (25 sec cd), chilll to the bones (90 sec cd). also GS 5 has 25 sec cd.

if you compare holo and reaper

Photon forge(PF) 2 600 range leap 2 sec cdRS 2 600 range leap 6 sec cd

PF 3 stability on 6 sec cdRS3 stability on 25 sec cd

PF 5 5 enemies stunned in 600 range radius 15 sec cdRS 5 1 enemy stunned in 240 range on 30 sec cd

holo is like reaper with 1/3 the cds and WAY more stability AND mobility AND Sustain.and since everyone in this game is saying reaper is FINE. holosmith (that is obvious 3 times better) is simply OP.

I love it! Based on what you've said, Holosmith spends all fight every fight in Photon Forge, never leaving. How else would we keep permanent 66% uptime on stability, just staying in good old Photon Forge which has no counter mechanism right?

Can we fly too?

Seriously though, you can compare classes, but Holo and Reaper fill two different roles. I don't see a reaper on my team and think "Crap I need to switch or we'll be disadvantaged, because I'm worth three of these reapers!" You can compare them, but it's apples to oranges.

I'm just about done with this thread though. Clearly, it's popular with gold-tier players to just say "Holo has it all, always." Without taking time to understand the spec, its counterbalance and exactly what makes it strong right now.

Last time I'll say it: Yes, it's overperforming a bit right now, but every Holo build in the meta has a counter, which means it's not crazy OP. Holo needs a few shaves, but only if a few other specs get shaved as well.

/Done. Good luck all.

ahahahahahhaaaa xD, yes if you leave forged form you can just use Elixier s until you can enter it the next time, or your Shield block (both also negate stunn effects), or your invis, or your 50% dmg reduction + perma every boon (including protection so that you with all effects stacked just got 20% dmg of the initial hit). common. holo has already Sustain like a warrior, and thats more than enough to re enter forged form. so you are never in danger of stunns.

Shield block? Intersting developments. Are we playing sword shield now?Invis? I'll assume active elixer S because who even uses bomb kit...And 50% damage reduction? There go both their stunbreaks!Perma every boon? Yo know the firebrand standing next to the holo buffing him isn't part of the holo kit right? :trollface:

I agree, when paired with a FB, given every buff in the game, playing shield offhand, double elixer S and stealth, holo is WAY too sustainy and tanky.:trollface:

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iKeostuKen.2738

iKeostuKen.2738

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Was just doing WvW. Whirling defensed a spellbreaker and hits werent registering, but he was still hitting me with some sword slashing skill. I got down, he gets swarmed after getting rallied, but instead of its health going down it just shot straight up. Some im wondering, if Spellbreakers have a heralds heal as well? If so then i may just have to put this game down.

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Vagrant.7206

Vagrant.7206

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@Zero.3871 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:I see holo players jumping into any fight without second thought,
that feeling of invincibility is what's wrong
, nobody should feel like a god at every turn during all match, players tend to develop a rather unhealthy vision of gameplay.

Currently there are too many safety nets around holosmith too many get of jail for free and all is accessible with min level of skill investment...that's why holosmith is meta and herald and weaver are not.

That being said...Engie doesn't need a total rework...The mobility is prolly what needs to be nerfed. They have far too many rocket boot et al type movement boosts on far too short a cooldown.

...

The only mobility skill like "rocket boots et al" that we have is... Rocket Boots. If that qualifies the whole class as "high mobility" to you, let me show what a thief can do with their bow.

@"Hot Boy.7138" said:Holosmith's resilience is off the charts. They have a lot of damage mitigation, healing, stealth, invulns. It's really over the top.

Man, I wish I could play this imaginary holosmith everybody comes up with.

Holo is the most survivable bruiser build right after SB, yet it does significantly higher damage and ton of CC. It currently outperforms weaver, reaper SB and core guardian as a bruiser build. It also has no weaknesses. It is not susceptible to focus fire, has strong condi removal, access to many boons with long durations. Multiple CC breaks and stability.

I've never played this mystical holo you speak of. Maybe I'm just not doing it right after maining engineer for 6 years now.
  • Can you have power damage? Yes!
  • Can you have condi damage? Yes!
  • Can you have a ton of stability and stunbreaks? Yes!
  • Can you be really mobile? Yes!
  • Can you tank power damage really well? Yes!
  • Can you tank condi damage really well? Yes!
  • Can you have a ton of CC? Yes!
  • Can you have a ton of stealth? Yes!

But you can only pick 2 out of these 8, and you may be able to scrape in the CC as a bonus. The meta builds allow you to survive well against one type of damage and dish out a good amount of power or condi damage:
  • Conversion holo protects heavily against condi, vulnerable to power spikes and corruption. It dishes out good power damage.
  • Static Protection protects heavily against power, vulnerable to condi spikes and corruption. It dishes out good power damage.
  • Any non-standard build (IE a decapper with rocket boots) sacrifices either damage or survivability in a fight for that mobility. A common replacement in builds is elixir U for extra damage output, but costs a reduction in survivability.

This is part of engineer's design -- having the right tools for the job. The class (at least in theory) is supposed to have a lot of variation. But there's always an opportunity cost. Now if only they could add some of that variation to core or scrapper... Grumble.

You can learn the tells for what the holo's build is based on the different utilities they're using. See lightning flying out from them, a photon wall, or something similar? They're on static protection and vulnerable to condis. See an elixir gun and a thumper turret (or turret shield)? They're on conversion holo and vulnerable to power. Or just learn the cooldowns. There are long periods where holos are more vulnerable than usual because they have long cooldowns on skills like hard light arena. Wait for that stuff to run out, or purposely try to trigger it and then run away, so they're more vulnerable.

Also, I just want to point out a few things:
  • Good spellbreakers tend to win fights against holos, provided they know how to rotate properly and engage/disengage as needed. Also... rampage. Ugh.
  • Reaper can do just fine against holo if they use their CC's right. Most holo builds are very susceptible to corruption and CC chaining.
  • Core guardian builds are not bruisers right now. They are spike builds.

A reaper will just get CC chained to death by a Holo.

And a reaper can CC chain a holo to death.

What's the reaper CC chain that's killing your Holo?

Depends on what weapon sets they're using, but if they catch me while I'm on cooldown, they usually pull with greatsword, hit with the executioner's scythe, spin2win, fear with Reaper #3, use "Chilled to the bone!", and follow it up with a daze from warhorn or fear from staff.

All told, that's 5 CCs in a row from a relatively "meta" build. Holo only has 4, and they're not quite as chainable as that.

So you're saying ..you lose to a reaper when caught off guard and with everything on CD...this is the definition of strawman

No, I'm saying I lose to a reaper when they get their timing right. Say I stunbreak right as they're casting the next CC -- I might as well have not had the stunbreak in that case. In cases like that, it really just becomes a 50/50. If I sneak up on the reaper, they're likely to lose. If they sneak up on me, I'm likely to lose.

how is that possible? a holo has with corona burst 66 % uptime on stability. every 6 seconds recast. the cc chain of holo is rifle 4 (14 sec cd), forged form 5 15 sec cd, elite that skills have also MORE range on cc AND way lower cds than reaper. so a holo can way better chain cc permanently than reaper that have RS 5 (30 sec cd), rs 3 (25 sec cd), chilll to the bones (90 sec cd). also GS 5 has 25 sec cd.

if you compare holo and reaper

Photon forge(PF) 2 600 range leap 2 sec cdRS 2 600 range leap 6 sec cd

PF 3 stability on 6 sec cdRS3 stability on 25 sec cd

PF 5 5 enemies stunned in 600 range radius 15 sec cdRS 5 1 enemy stunned in 240 range on 30 sec cd

holo is like reaper with 1/3 the cds and WAY more stability AND mobility AND Sustain.and since everyone in this game is saying reaper is FINE. holosmith (that is obvious 3 times better) is simply OP.

I love it! Based on what you've said, Holosmith spends all fight every fight in Photon Forge, never leaving. How else would we keep permanent 66% uptime on stability, just staying in good old Photon Forge which has no counter mechanism right?

Can we fly too?

Seriously though, you can compare classes, but Holo and Reaper fill two different roles. I don't see a reaper on my team and think "Crap I need to switch or we'll be disadvantaged, because I'm worth three of these reapers!" You can compare them, but it's apples to oranges.

I'm just about done with this thread though. Clearly, it's popular with gold-tier players to just say "Holo has it all, always." Without taking time to understand the spec, its counterbalance and exactly what makes it strong right now.

Last time I'll say it: Yes, it's overperforming a bit right now, but every Holo build in the meta has a counter, which means it's not crazy OP. Holo needs a few shaves, but only if a few other specs get shaved as well.

/Done. Good luck all.

ahahahahahhaaaa xD, yes if you leave forged form you can just use Elixier s until you can enter it the next time, or your Shield block (both also negate stunn effects), or your invis, or your 50% dmg reduction + perma every boon (including protection so that you with all effects stacked just got 20% dmg of the initial hit). common. holo has already Sustain like a warrior, and thats more than enough to re enter forged form. so you are never in danger of stunns.

Take a ride aboard the hyperbole train!

Wooo wooooooooo!

hyperbole? does engi not have anything i wrote?

Hyperbole:

hyperbole[hahy-pur-buh-lee]

  1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
  2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

Engineer has some of what you wrote (not all of it), but you seem to imply it's able to use its abilities nonstop and then be practically invulnerable until it can use its abilities again. It doesn't really work that way.

You also implied a very off-meta build (Sword/Shield, Spectrum Shield, Elixir S, Elixir B/U, HLA [4 utilities woo!]) that could exist and would be extremely tanky -- it would also be way less effective at killing. Tank builds for holo have been made that roughly approximate what you describe, but they only have enough pressure to scare glass builds, not much else.

So yeah. We're riding the hyperbole train.

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Megametzler.5729

Megametzler.5729

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@"iKeostuKen.2738" said:Was just doing WvW. Whirling defensed a spellbreaker and hits werent registering, but he was still hitting me with some sword slashing skill. I got down, he gets swarmed after getting rallied, but instead of its health going down it just shot straight up. Some im wondering, if Spellbreakers have a heralds heal as well? If so then i may just have to put this game down.

Mate... stand to your word! :lol:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiant_Stance

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iKeostuKen.2738

iKeostuKen.2738

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@Megametzler.5729 said:

@"iKeostuKen.2738" said:Was just doing WvW. Whirling defensed a spellbreaker and hits werent registering, but he was still hitting me with some sword slashing skill. I got down, he gets swarmed after getting rallied, but instead of its health going down it just shot straight up. Some im wondering, if Spellbreakers have a heralds heal as well? If so then i may just have to put this game down.

Mate... stand to your word! :lol:

Sad part is, I was already uninstalling the game whether or not it was true lol.

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Megametzler.5729

Megametzler.5729

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@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Was just doing WvW. Whirling defensed a spellbreaker and hits werent registering, but he was still hitting me with some sword slashing skill. I got down, he gets swarmed after getting rallied, but instead of its health going down it just shot straight up. Some im wondering, if Spellbreakers have a heralds heal as well? If so then i may just have to put this game down.

Mate... stand to your word! :lol:

Sad part is, I was already uninstalling the game whether or not it was true lol.

Well, it is situational. The signet is better for roaming, but yeah, I imagine it can be much better in bigger fights to lol at the focus damage.

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iKeostuKen.2738

iKeostuKen.2738

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@Megametzler.5729 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:Was just doing WvW. Whirling defensed a spellbreaker and hits werent registering, but he was still hitting me with some sword slashing skill. I got down, he gets swarmed after getting rallied, but instead of its health going down it just shot straight up. Some im wondering, if Spellbreakers have a heralds heal as well? If so then i may just have to put this game down.

Mate... stand to your word! :lol:

Sad part is, I was already uninstalling the game whether or not it was true lol.

Well, it is situational. The signet is better for roaming, but yeah, I imagine it can be much better in bigger fights to lol at the focus damage.

Wouldnt be so bad if it was just on a warrior. But with all the damage negation that comes before and after with spellbraker. The survivability is just to much for something that can down you as if it was a glass build. Not just talking about the skill, but the potential of the elite spec as a whole.

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Euthymias.7984

Euthymias.7984

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I dont think Holosmith's as bad as its made out to be, but it has a lot of variability that makes it harder to counter than your usual "recognized" builds.Could they be using Conversion?What if its Static Discharge?Are they carrying elixirs and/or Rocket Boots?Could it be that odd Sw/Sh variant?I dont think their sustain's too high up there either, as each variant has some weakness to something. The only change I might consider recommending is making them generate a bit more heat on Corona burst/Shockwave, but doing too hard a nerf to the spec would begin to pidgeonhole its build options when Build Diversity like it currently has should be encouraged.

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Mbelch.9028

Mbelch.9028

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@"Euthymias.7984" said:I dont think Holosmith's as bad as its made out to be, but it has a lot of variability that makes it harder to counter than your usual "recognized" builds.Could they be using Conversion?What if its Static Discharge?Are they carrying elixirs and/or Rocket Boots?Could it be that odd Sw/Sh variant?I dont think their sustain's too high up there either, as each variant has some weakness to something. The only change I might consider recommending is making them generate a bit more heat on Corona burst/Shockwave, but doing too hard a nerf to the spec would begin to pidgeonhole its build options when Build Diversity like it currently has should be encouraged.

Slow clap

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Tehologist.5841

Tehologist.5841

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@"Euthymias.7984" said:I dont think Holosmith's as bad as its made out to be, but it has a lot of variability that makes it harder to counter than your usual "recognized" builds.Could they be using Conversion?What if its Static Discharge?Are they carrying elixirs and/or Rocket Boots?Could it be that odd Sw/Sh variant?I dont think their sustain's too high up there either, as each variant has some weakness to something. The only change I might consider recommending is making them generate a bit more heat on Corona burst/Shockwave, but doing too hard a nerf to the spec would begin to pidgeonhole its build options when Build Diversity like it currently has should be encouraged.

Well said

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Tehologist.5841

Tehologist.5841

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@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:But but, in wvw (yeah yeah I know) a holo went into stealth they came back out from stealth with close to all boons 10+ Might stacks and quickness and nuked 3 people who were just standing there talking. Clearly it's op.

Elixir B, Elixir U, Toss Elixir S plus HGH trait would give you 11 stacks of might, quickness and stealth (long cool downs, short duration).

Holosmith (knights with soldier accessories) feels so squishy in wvw, I die constantly 1v1's are rare. It is just part of the mode, some builds damage is just off the charts.

Anyway, has anet even anet acknowledged the bug with overcharged shot yet?

I couldn't reproduce that bug.

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Tehologist.5841

Tehologist.5841

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@kipthelip.5802 said:Photon Forge and Full Counter both need there cool down increased. I recommend 20 seconds for both. The double invuln for Holo needs to go away.

Photon forge doesn't have a cool down, do you mean the individual skills? How does the double invulnerability hurt you? If the auto elixir s hits, we are left with no way to heal (less than 20% health) and have to wait out its duration, just follow and spike, easy kill. It only lasts 3 seconds and it is on a 75 second CD.

If there was a decent option for that slot in that traitline, I doubt many would take auto elixir s.

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Mbelch.9028

Mbelch.9028

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@Tehologist.5841 said:

@kipthelip.5802 said:Photon Forge and Full Counter both need there cool down increased. I recommend 20 seconds for both. The double invuln for Holo needs to go away.

Photon forge doesn't have a cool down, do you mean the individual skills? How does the double invulnerability hurt you? If the auto elixir s hits, we are left with no way to heal (less than 20% health) and have to wait out its duration, just follow and spike, easy kill. It only lasts 3 seconds and it is on a 75 second CD.

If there was a decent option for that slot in that traitline, I doubt many would take auto elixir s.

Many of us, myself included, ignore Elixir S altogether. It's not a good trait because of its CD, and unpredictability.

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Tehologist.5841

Tehologist.5841

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@Mbelch.9028 said:

@kipthelip.5802 said:Photon Forge and Full Counter both need there cool down increased. I recommend 20 seconds for both. The double invuln for Holo needs to go away.

Photon forge doesn't have a cool down, do you mean the individual skills? How does the double invulnerability hurt you? If the auto elixir s hits, we are left with no way to heal (less than 20% health) and have to wait out its duration, just follow and spike, easy kill. It only lasts 3 seconds and it is on a 75 second CD.

If there was a decent option for that slot in that traitline, I doubt many would take auto elixir s.

Many of us, myself included, ignore Elixir S altogether. It's not a good trait because of its CD, and unpredictability.

I 100% agree, I can't count the number of times I am about to clear conditions and heal myself only to have it trigger. Then I just run around helplessly while I get swarmed and just wait for the incoming spike.

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Kako.1930

Kako.1930

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@Tehologist.5841 said:

@kipthelip.5802 said:Photon Forge and Full Counter both need there cool down increased. I recommend 20 seconds for both. The double invuln for Holo needs to go away.

Photon forge doesn't have a cool down, do you mean the individual skills? How does the double invulnerability hurt you? If the auto elixir s hits, we are left with no way to heal (less than 20% health) and have to wait out its duration, just follow and spike, easy kill. It only lasts 3 seconds and it is on a 75 second CD.

If there was a decent option for that slot in that traitline, I doubt many would take auto elixir s.

This is true. I play scrapper instead of holosmith, but I still wish there was something even a little useful to put there instead of auto elixir s. Maybe if backpack regenerator was constant instead of only when you're holding a kit, it would be used?

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Tehologist.5841

Tehologist.5841

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@Kako.1930 said:

@kipthelip.5802 said:Photon Forge and Full Counter both need there cool down increased. I recommend 20 seconds for both. The double invuln for Holo needs to go away.

Photon forge doesn't have a cool down, do you mean the individual skills? How does the double invulnerability hurt you? If the auto elixir s hits, we are left with no way to heal (less than 20% health) and have to wait out its duration, just follow and spike, easy kill. It only lasts 3 seconds and it is on a 75 second CD.

If there was a decent option for that slot in that traitline, I doubt many would take auto elixir s.

This is true. I play scrapper instead of holosmith, but I still wish there was something even a little useful to put there instead of auto elixir s. Maybe if backpack regenerator was constant instead of only when you're holding a kit, it would be used?

The healing is way too low for it to be useful, I will sometimes take the regen when clear condition.

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Fat Disgrace.4275

Fat Disgrace.4275

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@Tehologist.5841 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:But but, in wvw (yeah yeah I know) a holo went into stealth they came back out from stealth with close to all boons 10+ Might stacks and quickness and nuked 3 people who were just standing there talking. Clearly it's op.

Elixir B, Elixir U, Toss Elixir S plus HGH trait would give you 11 stacks of might, quickness and stealth (long cool downs, short duration).

Holosmith (knights with soldier accessories) feels so squishy in wvw, I die constantly 1v1's are rare. It is just part of the mode, some builds damage is just off the charts.

Anyway, has anet even anet acknowledged the bug with overcharged shot yet?

I couldn't reproduce that bug.

It knock backs at 1500 range, or is it 1200?

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Chaith.8256

Chaith.8256

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@Kako.1930 said:

@kipthelip.5802 said:Photon Forge and Full Counter both need there cool down increased. I recommend 20 seconds for both. The double invuln for Holo needs to go away.

Photon forge doesn't have a cool down, do you mean the individual skills? How does the double invulnerability hurt you? If the auto elixir s hits, we are left with no way to heal (less than 20% health) and have to wait out its duration, just follow and spike, easy kill. It only lasts 3 seconds and it is on a 75 second CD.

If there was a decent option for that slot in that traitline, I doubt many would take auto elixir s.

This is true. I play scrapper instead of holosmith, but I still wish there was something even a little useful to put there instead of auto elixir s. Maybe if backpack regenerator was constant instead of only when you're holding a kit, it would be used?

Or extending the heal over time effect that lasts for 5-6s after stowing a kit. Pre-core specs it lasted for 10s after swapping one on. It was basically gutted

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Mbelch.9028

Mbelch.9028

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@Kako.1930 said:

@kipthelip.5802 said:Photon Forge and Full Counter both need there cool down increased. I recommend 20 seconds for both. The double invuln for Holo needs to go away.

Photon forge doesn't have a cool down, do you mean the individual skills? How does the double invulnerability hurt you? If the auto elixir s hits, we are left with no way to heal (less than 20% health) and have to wait out its duration, just follow and spike, easy kill. It only lasts 3 seconds and it is on a 75 second CD.

If there was a decent option for that slot in that traitline, I doubt many would take auto elixir s.

This is true. I play scrapper instead of holosmith, but I still wish there was something even a little useful to put there instead of auto elixir s. Maybe if backpack regenerator was constant instead of only when you're holding a kit, it would be used?

@kipthelip.5802 said:Photon Forge and Full Counter both need there cool down increased. I recommend 20 seconds for both. The double invuln for Holo needs to go away.

Photon forge doesn't have a cool down, do you mean the individual skills? How does the double invulnerability hurt you? If the auto elixir s hits, we are left with no way to heal (less than 20% health) and have to wait out its duration, just follow and spike, easy kill. It only lasts 3 seconds and it is on a 75 second CD.

If there was a decent option for that slot in that traitline, I doubt many would take auto elixir s.

Many of us, myself included, ignore Elixir S altogether. It's not a good trait because of its CD, and unpredictability.

I 100% agree, I can't count the number of times I am about to clear conditions and heal myself only to have it trigger. Then I just run around helplessly while I get swarmed and just wait for the incoming spike.

Yeah, I take Comeback Cure always. It's not powerful, but it's better than what you described. That's how I act to engineers when I see their auto S pop. I just wait, time it out, then use a CC on them as soon as they come out before they can even dodge. Ded.

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