Taimi's Magical Adventure

[Tickle.5247]

Decide to come back to game after a break to play the new living story chapter. (Long Live The Lich)

Think to myself "i bet know this chapter will start with a message from Taimi"

Sure enough...

They should just call this game "Taimi's Magical Adventure"

Why does ANET think i would be invested in a story that makes me little more than a gofer for a little girl? Not to be ageist or anything but, when as an adult i'm role playing someone forging their own adventure, to just be simply following the instruction of some one who is their junior and even by the established relationships of the characters, is supposed to be a naive subordinate, seems completely nonsensical.

But the pact commander is even friend zoned by Taimi.

The story chapter starts with her literally emotionally black mailing you. Taimi; "you know i love you?"

"quick my Taimi alarm is ringing"

"better drop everything I'm doing and come to her aid because surely i have nothing better to be doing than pandering to the whims of a little girl when I'm the defender of Tyria."

I'm not going to act like the story is terrible and that i'm an expert on GW lore. From my experience of the game it is pretty good but I don't understand why Anet decided to use Taimi as such a prominent framing device to the extent that it seems like you are just running errands for her and GW2 is nothing more than the equivalent of someone describing their trip to the shops to buy something that the person who friend zoned them asked them to get. Just luckily enough a dragon popped out so it made it somewhat exciting trip to the shops, but with no sense adventure, just a feeling of being some beleaguered member of a little girls harem.

This makes me feel that GW2 has missed the focus, Taimi is having the real adventure, shes the one beating the dragons and we are just one of her minions doing her bidding. This would be the equivalent of making a film about the taxi driver who took James Bond to the airport.

Without going as far to accuse Anet of trying to brainwash men to pandering to the needs of little girls, or that Anent believe that this is how men want to live their lives I guess Anent are just lazy when it comes to exposition.

In a regular high fantasy story, to get a big plot dump the protagonist would have to go to some sage in a hard to reach location. Possibly identify who the sage is, earn the sages trust. Then the sage would bestow upon the hero some knowledge that has passed down through the ages and stored in some precious tome that only the most disciplined of scholars could read.

But no, in GW2, some improbably omniscient young girl rings you up on your cell phone and info dumps you when ever its necessary. Why make knowledge a quest, when it can be the equivalent to being subscribed to some attention seeking youtuber?

[Tickle.5247]

If anybody would care to clear up some details I'm not 100% on i would appreciate it.

Taimis age? Is she a girl or is she a young woman?

Her standing with regards to her peers? As I can see she is little more than some rebellious youth. Subversive whilst dismissing the wisdom of her elders.

Taimis relationship to the pact commander? He / she seems to put an inordinate amount of trust in her judgement. How long have they know each other? Are they close friends or more / less?

Any details regarding Taimis ostensible omniscience. I understand that she is supposed to be some child prodigy. These details though i feel are of little importance because with little writing effort she could employ any deus ex machina, given that she is literally a master of machines with divine properties.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Tickle.5247" said:If anybody would care to clear up some details I'm not 100% on i would appreciate it.

Taimis age? Is she a girl or is she a young woman?

Her standing with regards to her peers? As I can see she is little more than some rebellious youth. Subversive whilst dismissing the wisdom of her elders.

Taimis relationship to the pact commander? He / she seems to put an inordinate amount of trust in her judgement. How long have they know each other? Are they close friends or more / less?

Any details regarding Taimis ostensible omniscience. I understand that she is supposed to be some child prodigy. These details though i feel are of little importance because with little writing effort she could employ any deus ex machina, given that she is literally a master of machines with divine properties.

• She's 16 during Rising Flames, so by now she's be 17/18 depending on when during the year she was born.
• She's highly respected by her peers and her elders due to her waypoint recalibration device from Season 2, which furthered from her study of Rata Novus; add in the fact she was mentored by Zojja and is a member of the Elder Dragon slaying guild means she gets also tons of rep by association. She's not really rebellious (anymore, she kind of was in S1/S2).
• By this point in Season 4, the Commander knew Taimi for about 4 years, slightly less than the rest of Dragon's Watch (she would be both the youngest and "newest" member (technically Braham and Rox would be, followed by Canach, but those three were the first of the biconics met in S1)) but Taimi had also proven her worth during the events of Heart of Thorns and Season 3, supposedly.
• She doesn't have omniscience but a number of contacts throughout Rata Sum due to the aforemention popularity gained from making the W.R.D. and her time in the College of Synergetics. This means resources, which means being able to search for things. She's basically the member of Dragon's Watch with a Google search engine. The lack of apparent omniscience is actually a plot point in Season 3 actually makes a point to work against this with how she created a device that, because she didn't pre-test enough, nearly destroyed the world. Also, she wouldn't be a dues ex machina since all her knowledge is established to be through her study of Rata Novus or her contacts of Rata Sum - that's not how dues ex machinas work; but it is annoying close to mary suedom. Scruffy getting hacked and controlled by Joko's Awakened Asura were an attempt to lessen that mary suedom established in S3.

TL;DR, there are problems with Taimi apparently being so often involved, but she's the only character who actually is established spending time off-screen to research the topics of our current threats. Everyone else is out there fighting on the front lines while she's off with glass bottles and chak organs in a container.

[Fenella.2634]

Oh please, not this again.It's enough to have one ally murdered off horribly thanks to a part of the community being extremely insecure and not feeling "important" enough.

Taimi is the one doing most of the research, so why wouldn't she be the one to set stories in motion by having new results on something? Works fine for me.

And whatever friendzoning you're seeing - I certainly hope the PC stays very far away from any canon romantic relationships. As far as I am concerned, Taimi and the PC are good friends.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

Honestly, I've gotten a strong big sibling/little sister vibe from the Commander's interactions with Taimi. She's an orphan who's been latched onto us since she was thirteen, and whose guardian has been conspicuously absent from the story for three years now, so I'd honestly have been more surprised if she hadn't loosened up and started treating Dragon's Watch like a surrogate family. The 'you know I love you, right?' is also in keeping with a time-honored tradition of emotional blackmail coming from younger siblings.

More to the point, though, I can't understand how the game can be construed as being her story, when most of what she does is check in with us about things we'd asked her to look into months earlier. Start of Long Live the Lich? We'd set her to work with Gorrik to research the Scarab Plague at the end of the previous episode, and that's what she was getting in touch about. The last time she had a role to play in a major story moment was Daybreak, and she was kidnapbait there. Before that? Flashpoint, more than a year ago. Come to think of it, I don't think she's pulled any miraculous info dumps since Flashpoint either. The Eye of Janthir was Anise or Livia's idea. PoF mostly left the leaps in logic to the Commander, with one set aside for Kasmeer. Daybreak's convenient solutions came from Kito, Braham, and a random old priest; Kito was at it again for A Bug in the System; and Gorrik and Aurene stole the show in Long Live the Lich.

So, no. I do not feel particularly brainwashed into pandering to the needs of little girls, which I suspect is largely due to the fact that our character doesn't pander to the needs of little girls.

(That said, I do think ANet leans too hard on having solutions suddenly pulled out of midair, and I do feel the asura as a whole get more than their fair share of such moments. But as far as individual characters go, I think they've done a laudable job of passing the plot device ball around.)

[ugrakarma.9416]

For me it falls into the category, "impossible to please everyone".... I particularly detest characters of "the child prodigy" category. however, it seems there is a fan base for this type of character so it's Anet's business, not mine. Good thing that Aurene grew and deviated from that, Taimi was enough as our "pet with super brain".

[starlinvf.1358]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Tickle.5247" said:If anybody would care to clear up some details I'm not 100% on i would appreciate it.

Taimis age? Is she a girl or is she a young woman?

Her standing with regards to her peers? As I can see she is little more than some rebellious youth. Subversive whilst dismissing the wisdom of her elders.

Taimis relationship to the pact commander? He / she seems to put an inordinate amount of trust in her judgement. How long have they know each other? Are they close friends or more / less?

Any details regarding Taimis ostensible omniscience. I understand that she is supposed to be some child prodigy. These details though i feel are of little importance because with little writing effort she could employ any deus ex machina, given that she is literally a master of machines with divine properties.

• She's 16 during Rising Flames, so by now she's be 17/18 depending on when during the year she was born.
• She's highly respected by her peers and her elders due to her waypoint recalibration device from Season 2, which furthered from her study of Rata Novus; add in the fact she was mentored by Zojja and is a member of the Elder Dragon slaying guild means she gets also tons of rep by association. She's not really rebellious (anymore, she kind of was in S1/S2).
• By this point in Season 4, the Commander knew Taimi for about 4 years, slightly less than the rest of Dragon's Watch (she would be both the youngest and "newest" member (technically Braham and Rox would be, followed by Canach, but those three were the first of the biconics met in S1)) but Taimi had also proven her worth during the events of Heart of Thorns and Season 3, supposedly.
• She doesn't have omniscience but a number of contacts throughout Rata Sum due to the aforemention popularity gained from making the W.R.D. and her time in the College of Synergetics. This means resources, which means being able to search for things. She's basically the member of Dragon's Watch with a Google search engine. The lack of apparent omniscience is actually a plot point in Season 3 actually makes a point to work against this with how she created a device that, because she didn't pre-test enough, nearly destroyed the world. Also, she wouldn't be a dues ex machina since all her knowledge is established to be through her study of Rata Novus or her contacts of Rata Sum - that's not how dues ex machinas work; but it is annoying close to mary suedom. Scruffy getting hacked and controlled by Joko's Awakened Asura were an attempt to lessen that mary suedom established in S3.

TL;DR, there are problems with Taimi apparently being so often involved, but she's the only character who actually is established spending time off-screen to research the topics of our current threats. Everyone else is out there fighting on the front lines while she's off with glass bottles and chak organs in a container.

Well.... someone in the party has spend that 30+ hours in the village Library doing research, to figure out how to fight something that has high resistance to "smashing". Lets go down the list of problem solving skills of the team.

Commander: Smashing, Charm, Intimidate, Street Cred, Network of allied forcesBhram: Smashing with some Smashing resistance, Angst, recently obtained street credRox: Tracking, GreatSword Smashing, Long range smashing, Frostbite, Lineage(?)Jory: Smashing, Intimidate, Dry humor, WorldlyKas: Clone Smashing, Truth Reading +4, High Society, Charm +10, Portals, Perfect Timing, Faren resistanceConach: Explosions, Alchemy, snarky sense of humorRytlock: Mist Magic Smashing, Martial Smashing, Street Cred, War buddies, GrumpyTaimi: M.E.K.A, Network of researchers, Mobile Lab, Reading comprehension, "Theory", Limited access to highly unstable magic sources, Tinker +2, Constructs, -5 Agility, "Debbi Derryberry"Aurene: A friggin Dragon

Out of everyone in the Group, Taimi is the only one thats likely to have read the Monster Manual and picks up all its compendiums for it.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"starlinvf.1358" said:Commander: Smashing, Charm, Intimidate, Street Cred, Network of allied forcesBhram: Smashing with some Smashing resistance, Angst, recently obtained street credRox: Tracking, GreatSword Smashing, Long range smashing, Frostbite, Lineage(?)Jory: Smashing, Intimidate, Dry humor, WorldlyKas: Clone Smashing, Truth Reading +4, High Society, Charm +10, Portals, Perfect Timing, Faren resistanceConach: Explosions, Alchemy, snarky sense of humorRytlock: Mist Magic Smashing, Martial Smashing, Street Cred, War buddies, GrumpyTaimi: M.E.K.A, Network of researchers, Mobile Lab, Reading comprehension, "Theory", Limited access to highly unstable magic sources, Tinker +2, Constructs, -5 Agility, "Debbi Derryberry"Aurene: A friggin Dragon

Out of everyone in the Group, Taimi is the only one thats likely to have read the Monster Manual and picks up all its compendiums for it.

Marjory is an investigator and detective. While she does do some smashing, she's more than capable of researching things too. Rytlock has also shown to be capable of research (he delved through human lore just to try and figure out the Foefire ritual after all).

More accurate would probably be:

• Commander: Smashing, charm, intimidation, street cred, network of allies
• Braham: Smashing, Tanking, Angst, High to superhigh expectations by non-DW allies, street cred
• Rox: Tracking, weapon expert, mineral expert (was a miner), animal expert, and is a spy for non-DW allies, street cred by association
• Jory: Detective/Investigator, death magic expert, siege warfare knower, mid society contacts, dry humor, street cred
• Kasmeer: Mesmer magic expert, religion "expert", lie detection self-training/talent, high society contacts, street cred by association
• Canach: Smashing, Explosives expert, plant expert, snarky sense of humor, low society contacts ahoy, street cred
• Rytlock: Smashing, ancient humanity self-trained "expert", Mists know-how, network of allies, street cred
• Taimi: Library shut-in, certified genius, network of allies, physically crippled, mobile lab for hypothesizing and testing, street cred by association
• Logan: Smashing (formerly?), Tanking (formerly?), High society contacts, likely physically crippled, network of allies, street cred
• Caithe: Silent stabbing, massive stealth expert, street cred
• Zojja: Comatose (apparently), smashing, certified genius, snark, street cred, network of allies

For different things, Marjory, Canach, Rytlock, Kasmeer, and Rox could all have held some degree of being the "person who knows". Unfortunately, Kasmeer was MIA when she could have given it most effectively (White Mantle plot), and Marjory had decided to go galavanting with sir floatsalot instead of doing actual detectiving.

Season 4 hasn't really held any of their realms of expertise though, and with no Zojja, we go to our only other "all around researcher" Taimi (and introduced the brothers to help this).

[ugrakarma.9416]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

• Commander: Smashing, charm, intimidation, street cred, network of allies

So the commander is basically the main hero from niponic animes like Yusuke from Yuyu-Hakusho or Goku from DBZ? "the brave guy" with no much brains, but care about friendships and loyalty?

[Blocki.4931]

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

• Commander: Smashing, charm, intimidation, street cred, network of allies

So the commander is basically the main hero from niponic animes like Yusuke from Yuyu-Hakusho or Goku from DBZ? "the brave guy" with no much brains, but care about friendships and loyalty?

Makes sense, doesn't it? It's something most people would like to associate themselves with, a character that we can project ourselves into, which in turn plays a huge part in immersion

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

• Commander: Smashing, charm, intimidation, street cred, network of allies

So the commander is basically the main hero from niponic animes like Yusuke from Yuyu-Hakusho or Goku from DBZ? "the brave guy" with no much brains, but care about friendships and loyalty?

After the PS? Yeah, pretty much. Though I wouldn't say "with not much brains" but rather "doesn't show the character's actual intellect level".

[Tickle.5247]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

• She's highly respected by her peers and her elders due to her waypoint recalibration device from Season 2, which furthered from her study of Rata Novus; add in the fact she was mentored by Zojja and is a member of the Elder Dragon slaying guild means she gets also tons of rep by association. She's not really rebellious (anymore, she kind of was in S1/S2).

Wasn't she openly rebellious to her masters direction and was actually even prone to calling him names going so far as to undermine his authority and directly disobey his wishes?

Aren't Asura's supposed to be loyal to their crew? From what I understand of the nature of Asuran society and Taimi's actions she has done enough to be considered a bad guy.

If we are to believe that she is some sort of "Dark Knight"; "Because she's the hero Tyria deserves, but not the one it needs right now." i would argue that this is nonsensical. Bat Man had already come of age, he had a troubled past much like Taimi from what you are saying, but he had grown older and came to understand the world (being a successful business man) and took direct tutelage from his mentor (the butler character). Taimi has not come of age, nor is she under any direction from any mentor. She is a rebellious adolescent lose canon with no redeeming qualities other than that fact that she is subjectively kawaii. The fact that the Pact Commander gives so much credence to such an individual is absurd. It would be like asking someone who is known to have vandalised community buildings if they want to be mayor.

Taimi is a renegade. The only thing stopping her from being a bad guy is that her motives are conducive to the protagonist's (Pact Commander's) ends. The only reason why the pact commander's goals and Taimi's are the same is because he is being influenced by her like someone who is friend zoned.

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

• She doesn't have omniscience but a number of contacts throughout Rata Sum due to the aforemention popularity gained from making the W.R.D. and her time in the College of Synergetics. This means resources, which means being able to search for things. She's basically the member of Dragon's Watch with a Google search engine. The lack of apparent omniscience is actually a plot point in Season 3 actually makes a point to work against this with how she created a device that, because she didn't pre-test enough, nearly destroyed the world. Also, she wouldn't be a dues ex machina since all her knowledge is established to be through her study of Rata Novus or her contacts of Rata Sum - that's not how dues ex machinas work; but it is annoying close to mary suedom. Scruffy getting hacked and controlled by Joko's Awakened Asura were an attempt to lessen that mary suedom established in S3.

Wasn't she the person who wielded the power of "Omadd's Machine"? She literally commanded the power of a machine that bestowed prophetic visions. Taking the literal meaning of "Deus Ex Machnia" ie "God Machine", she indeed employees the use of literal deus ex machinas. Not to mention any other device that they might contrive her to have access to.

Good point about the mary suedom though. Although I would argue that she qualifies as such. It maybe an exageration to go as far to say that she is omniscient - you having given good examples of when she has shown to have gaps in her knowledge - but at least from my experience of the story she does seem like she knows an awful lot. I would argue that if someone isn't prepared to stand on the shoulder of giants and is ignorant of the continuity of master / mentor knowledge preservation and discipline then she would realistically be severely disadvantaged. A person could be a child prodigy, a genius, but if they are going to be willfully ignorant then they will severely limit their potential.

@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:More to the point, though, I can't understand how the game can be construed as being her story, when most of what she does is check in with us about things we'd asked her to look into months earlier.

Isn't their whole understanding about ley lines and the nature of the elder dragons based around her research? Isn't it Taimi who convinces the pact commander to not kill an elder dragon which then in turn influences the culmination of the events of Path of Fire . Now come to think of it most of the events of season 3 are based on Taimi's theories about getting Jormag and Primordus to fight.

Consider that in PoF there is unique mechanic where the pact commander has to get signal for his cell phone so he can check in with Taimi. At every key juncture in the story he has to run everything by Taimi, like he needs to get permission for his actions. This is akin to either a child having to check in with their parents when they've been allowed out at night, or, a boyfriend / husband having to check in with their girlfriend / wife.

Which raises some qustion. If as @Aaron Ansari.1604 says the relationship between Taimi and the Pact commander is that of a big brother to a little sister, why does he check in with her like shes his / her mother? If that isn't the nature of the relationship, then are we led to believe that the relationship between the pact commander and Taimi is that of a romantic interest? Why else would any grown individual feel compelled to run his actions by a person, unless they were their mentor / boss ie the pact commander being Taimi's gofer?

If indeed the relationship is supposed to be romantic, then wouldn't that relationship be of a pedophilic groomer, given that the pact commander knew Taimi before she was of age?

I wouldn't be surprised that in the next expansion, the pact commander either expresses his profound love for Taimi, or the story will revolve around him / her having the relationship tested in some big way. Making the plot revolve around Taimi even more than it does now, if that's even possible without an overt shift of focus to Taimi as the protagonist (implying that she isn't already in actuality the protagonist).

And if that happens, and to link back to my sentiments in OP...

No, no i don't love you Taimi, and i'l struggle to be invested when the story requires me to.

Taimi is about as obnoxious a character as i could hope to imagine. The fact that shes voiced by a voice actor who lends her voice to intentionally cutesy child characters in children's cartoons is beyond annoying.

Okay you want to make some adolescent prodigy character? Okay, give it the voice of someone who sounds punk rock, who plays by their own rules, who sounds like they understand that rules are there to guide the wise and for fools to follow.

Not some cutesy child who might put more importance to whether her discoveries could create rainbow coloured marshmallows than save the world from elder dragons.

If you want some cutesy little girl character, could we please not have the whole story revolve around that character?

Could we not get our exposition some other way? remember when we had to go to that library and find that dwarf? or go into some crystal dimension? can we have that instead of the Taimi cell phone?

[Tickle.5247]

The fact that i guessed it just shows the repetitive laziness of their plot device choice.

Out of all the characters in the GW2 universe that could have been the first point of contact in the new story chapter why did it have to be Taimi, again?

Why not?

The Pale Tree

Queen Jenna

Caithe

Zojja

or any other character that is should be more significant to the universe than lil' rebel?

Here's an idea, how about create a new character?

I would in no exaggeration be more enthralled if the Trade Post vendor from LA contacted me to launch me on quest than Taimi and found out their name and where they lived etc.

I can create a more interesting idea than the paid writers at Anet using the equivalent of an ATM as plot device.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Tickle.5247 said:Wasn't she openly rebellious to her masters direction and was actually even prone to calling him names going so far as to undermine his authority and directly disobey his wishes?

You refer to her actions to Phlunt, who literally tried to steal her work and take credit for it. Even before that, he was insulting to her, and treats everyone as idiotic and less than him.

I wouldn't call that rebellious or undermining authority. She's not a renegade because she doesn't like Phlunt. It'd be like not liking Trump.

@Tickle.5247 said:Wasn't she the person who wielded the power of "Omadd's Machine"? She literally commanded the power of a machine that bestowed prophetic visions. Taking the literal meaning of "Deus Ex Machnia" ie "God Machine", she indeed employees the use of literal deus ex machinas. Not to mention any other device that they might contrive her to have access to.

Taimi never knew how Omadd's Machine functioned. She could press the start button, sure, but that was it. And she didn't have power over it. We found it, and she utilized it once (twice if we count when the Commander went into the machine).

And it's not "god machine" but "god from the machine", the meaning of the phrase is to have a solution come out of proverbial thin air without any prior establishment. It comes from Greek plays which had to solve the plot and did so by having a god brought in via theatrical machine to just swoop in and solve the play's final problems. Taimi never once pulls a solution out of her arse - the Commander does at the end of HoT, but Taimi doesn't. What solutions she does come up with are either inspired by others or coming from previously established or hinted lore. So no. She's not a dues ex machina.

@Tickle.5247 said:Isn't their whole understanding about ley lines and the nature of the elder dragons based around her research? Isn't it Taimi who convinces the pact commander to not kill an elder dragon which then in turn influences the culmination of the events of Path of Fire . Now come to think of it most of the events of season 3 are based on Taimi's theories about getting Jormag and Primordus to fight.

No. The asura had been theorizing about the existence of the ley liens for centuries, and though Rata Novans had proved it, Rata Sumians hadn't until Scarlet Briar - not Taimi - proved their existence. Individuals had studied them sense. Taimi included, but she's not the leading pioneer.

And all of Taimi's knowledge on the Elder Dragons comes from the Dragon Lab of Rata Novus, not Taimi herself. And yes, it is Taimi who does convince the Commander that killing dragons is bad, but this is due to simulations she ran based on the works of others (Novans, Snaff, and Omadd).

She's not some grand know-it-all because she managed to be able to be influenced by four difference sources who studied the same or similar topics from different points of view and managed to find the connecting dots.

@Tickle.5247 said:Consider that in PoF there is unique mechanic where the pact commander has to get signal for his cell phone so he can check in with Taimi. At every key juncture in the story he has to run everything by Taimi, like he needs to get permission for his actions. This is akin to either a child having to check in with their parents when they've been allowed out at night, or, a boyfriend / husband having to check in with their girlfriend / wife.

That... is purely optional, and the Commander is not getting permission, he's updating his teammates on the situation at hand (but can only directly contact Taimi, who no doubt could directly contact Marjory, Rox, and Braham). I don't even see where you could fathomly get that the Commander is "getting permission". Hell, most of the time Taimi has nothing to say on the matter, or she is the one asking the Commander questions not the other way around.

@Tickle.5247 said:If indeed the relationship is supposed to be romantic, then wouldn't that relationship be of a pedophilic groomer, given that the pact commander knew Taimi before she was of age?

Season 4 makes it pretty clear that if Taimi has romantic feelings for anyone, it's Blish.

And I don't see how you could possibly get that the Commander has romantic feelings for Taimi. There's nothing of that at all... Honestly, the only way I can imagine you coming to such a conclusion is if you're projecting your own interests onto the PC and warping your own interpretation of the dialogue to match it. And I rather hope that's not true given how hostile you seem to be about it.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Tickle.5247" said:The fact that i guessed it just shows the repetitive laziness of their plot device choice.

Out of all the characters in the GW2 universe that could have been the first point of contact in the new story chapter why did it have to be Taimi, again?

Why not?

The Pale TreeQueen JennaCaitheZojja

or any other character that is should be more significant to the universe than lil' rebel?

Here's an idea, how about create a new character?

• The Pale Tree has literally nothing to do with Elona, Joko, or the Scarab Plague.
• Queen Jennah similarly has little to do with the events of the episode, and she's busy with her own nation to run.
• Caithe and Zojja, TBH their MIA status is questionable, but they wouldn't be up to date and the only way they could get up to date would be by contacting someone else in the group anyways.
• Why would a new character at all be involved with the plot? And it would be utterly jarring to introduce a new character in this manner.

But to speak about the "repetative plot device", let's go back through Season 3 and 4 releases and see how they start. They all start with either a letter or communication so let's see:

• S3E1: Letter from Knut Whitebear
• S3E2: No letter or communication
• S3E3: Vision from Aurene
• S3E4: Letter from Queen Jennah
• S3E5: Communication from Taimi
• S3E6: Communication from Taimi
• S4E1: Communication from Taimi and Rytlock
• S4E2: Letter from Kito
• S4E3: Communication from Taimi

So out of 9 times, the story began with a communication from Taimi (and company) only four times. Less than half. While yes, it's most of the more recent half, it's still not the most common thing.

I really think you're massively over-exaggerating the situation.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I wouldn't call the commander a full on idiot hero since they are shown to be a shrewd tactician and well think of all the trickery and acting the player does, from the various hearts with disguises all the way to the plan the commander comes up with to take the place of Iberu and control Jok(e)o's army. They're just not really the type who likes to sit around in research away from the action.

Also Taimi is more mission control than primary protagonist. Tons of games utilize a mission control character.

[kasoki.5180]

We must not be playing the same game. If anything, in HoT and and PoF Commander is actually Commander in the true sense of the term. You are ordering people what to do, dividing labour of your group and giving special assignments to individuals, prioritizing tasks and deciding on tactics. Almost every quest in HoT and PoF is exercise of your authority as Commander and guild leader.

I do agree that Taimi is bit overused as an exposition device and would definitely like some other characters to step up a bit. PoF was an opportunity to make Kas or Rytlock more involved in the narrative, which they definitely were, but I think they should've been more involved and used to further the exposition.

The idea of Taimi "friendzoning" commander and any notion of romantic interest being there is beyond me. I have never seen it.

Taimi at the moment fills the trope of background nerdy scientist who comes up with solutions. She is Abby from NCIS or Aram from Blacklist. As I have previously said, I would like Anet to tone down with Taimi a little bit, but she is far from some unheard travesty in narrative sense

[ugrakarma.9416]

@"Tickle.5247" is overxageratting. Its clear thats not a "mother son" relantioship. Taimi opened her sentimental insecurites several times to commander, not the opposse, especially in HoT rata novus instances.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@"Tickle.5247" said:

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe said:None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.

I'd like to share a theory.

You know how in games like "The Witcher" you can't select a character because "The Witcher" is "Geralt's story"?

Maybe GW2 really is about Taimi.

Maybe Anet figured that they couldn't have everyone not being able to character select in an MMORPG lest everyone was running around looking like Taimi clones.So they created the PC, Taimi's friend zoned gofer that people could character select and customise.That mean's that every player character in Tyria is one of Taimi's minions.The whole population of GW2 is in Taimi's friend-zone.GW2 is just a massive social experiment to create the biggest friend-zone in existence.GW2 vanilla was just bait. Everyone got a personal story and were led to believe they were the protagonist.Then all those individual characters were assimilated into Taimi collective over the course of the subsequent updates / living world series.Please could someone help by summarising Taimi's rise to prominence?Thank you to everyone contributing to the thread. I know i'm giving this Konig guy some digs but hes actually contributed some decent lore to the thread.

GW2 is always about someone, or something beyond commander itself, since Personal History.but basically, since the LS2, this thing was supossed to be the children of Glint, aka Aurene, is everywhere.

Even Taimmi babysitted the egg

Taimi: See, that dot is the egg chamber. It lit up like a Lunar New Year firework after the dragon went bye-bye.Taimi: But as you can see here...Taimi: The egg's doing great!

: What are we looking at? A feed of the egg chamber?Taimi: Yeah, the Exalted and the Rata Novans shared a ton of information.Taimi: They must have helped them design their security system.: And then you broke into it?Taimi: **No. I utilized it to check on the egg.**

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Research_in_Rata_Novus

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

@Tickle.5247 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:You refer to her actions to Phlunt, who literally tried to steal her work and take credit for it. Even before that, he was insulting to her, and treats everyone as idiotic and less than him.

You do realise that irl in a university or even in industry, any research you do is the property of the institution that is mentoring you and the project lead is the one credited with the discoveries.

Phlunt's actions are perfectly justified.A.) That's not how asura society works- personal ownership of inventions is a big bloody deal to them- but B.) Phlunt was neither mentoring Taimi nor her project lead. He wasn't involved at all, didn't even know the project existed, until Taimi was practically finished with it. He did make a claim on it, after she'd proven it worked, but the claim was... dubious, at best, and boiled down to 'you're still a minor, so I can get away with shit like this.'

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:And she didn't have power over it. We found it, and she utilized it once (twice if we count when the Commander went into the machine).

That's like saying the president of the united states doesn't have power of a nuclear arsenal because they have only used it once or twice.More like saying that the president doesn't understand the basis of how nukes work or what they actually do outside of how it affects their particular area of expertise, in that case diplomacy and foreign policy. Taimi was toying with something she didn't understand there.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:And it's not "god machine" but "god from the machine", the meaning of the phrase is to have a solution come out of proverbial thin air without any prior establishment. It comes from Greek plays which had to solve the plot and did so by having a god brought in via theatrical machine to just swoop in and solve the play's final problems. Taimi never once pulls a solution out of her kitten - the Commander does at the end of HoT, but Taimi doesn't. What solutions she does come up with are either inspired by others or coming from previously established or hinted lore. So no. She's not a dues ex machina.

You have gone fully off the deep end here. I have said that Taimi has use of a literal deus ex machina, which she does, which i have shown.

Had use. It's gone, presumably forever, as Taimi has made it clear that she has no idea how it worked, let alone how it was built, in the first place.

and that her influence is absurdly significant. Consider that the less unique and profound her skill set, the more disproportionate it is for her to have great influence on world events.You didn't reply to Konig's points on this, but going down the list of that influence:Isn't their whole understanding about ley lines and the nature of the elder dragons based around her research?No. Understanding of ley lines is based on Scarlet's research, which was in turn based on earlier asura theories. Taimi had very little to do with any of that. Understanding of the nature of the dragons (such as we have) is based on records left behind by a variety of ancient races and the gods. Taimi had nothing at all to do with that.Isn't it Taimi who convinces the pact commander to not kill an elder dragon which then in turn influences the culmination of the events of Path of FireYes and no. She does warn us, but it doesn't convince us of anything- we'd already set out to stop Balthazar for separate reasons, and we tell her to look into it more and make sure we're not jumping the gun. By the time we get to saving Kralkatorrik in Path of Fire, we've had her theory independently verified by the Exalted, and if memory serves, it's after that point that we agree to progress with taking the idea seriously.Now come to think of it most of the events of season 3 are based on Taimi's theories about getting Jormag and Primordus to fight.This is true- well, most is an exaggeration, but Taimi's plan does form the loose background framework to give the Commander reasons to be in the right place at the right time for unrelated important things to happen. That said? We still require her to test her idea before we move forward with it. It may be her being unrealistically savvy and resourceful, but it's not her wielding outsized influence or unwarranted persuasion.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:That... is purely optional, and the Commander is not getting permission

I never said he / she was, i said it was

"like"

he / she was, again a straw-man on your part, which is a logical fallacy. Only trolls and people who fail at constructing arguments use logical fallacies.

Hm.

Regardless, your complaint was that the Commander has to run everything by her. That is not the case.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:(but can only directly contact Taimi, who no doubt could directly contact Marjory, Rox, and Braham)

It wouldn't be a stretch for the story writers to make it so that Taimi could give additional cell phones to the other key characters so they could all stay in touch. The fact that they choose not to demonstrates their comitment to contriving Taimi to being the focus of GW2.They demonstrate their commitment to making her the focus by giving her an

optional

commentary that doesn't impact how the events play out? Seems a self-defeating way of doing it.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:And I don't see how you could possibly get that the Commander has romantic feelings for Taimi.

Because he acts like someone who is friend-zoned, which i have demonstrated, and which you are demonstrating your ignorance of.Mate, I've got to break it to you: platonic friendships

are

a thing, and you've not demonstrated that this is anything different. I talk to my friends about what's going on in my life on a daily basis. I've used some variation of 'you know I love you?' on three of them, and two of those have returned the favor. I'm not sure what you meant when you said that having the same goal as Taimi- stopping world-ending catastrophes before they can get to that world-ending bit- means we're friendzoned, but I

can

confirm that people run errands for friends... as well as relatives, coworkers, bosses, acquaintances-through-mutual-organization, and so on.

Okay what about any other character in the guild wars universe that should be more important than Taimi or anyone who isn't?Like Knut, Aurene, Jennah, Rytlock, and Kito? Konig went over this. You even address it below.

the PC is 6,666 X more likely to pick Taimi in seeking counsel when initiating a quest than anyone else in the world.Except, that's not what the Commander's doing. She initiates all four conversations, we're not seeking anything, and of those, two of them are 'hey, I did that thing you asked me to do!', one is 'hey, I need help with that thing you asked me to do!', and one is 'Hey, I'm worried about this thing- oh, you're on it? Great!' The only counsel she offers is 'that thing you already decided to do sounds like a great idea!'

So if something is 87 X more likely to get selected more than anything else, i would say that that something is pretty kitten important.But the thing she's being selected

for

isn't important. How much of the action of the average episode is based on the message that started it, from Taimi or otherwise? Of the three so far this season, only one- the one that's not from Taimi, for what that's worth- is more than getting us in the right place for something unrelated to happen and get the plot moving.

Please could someone help by summarising Taimi's rise to prominence?Sure.A random bystander shows up on one of our battlegrounds. She attaches herself to one of our companions, fangirls over our antagonist, and sits the final fight out.

She's then one of five discrete characters who decide they're now the Commander's guild. In that capacity, she aids us about as much as the other four for the rest of the season- more than Rox, less than Marjory, who we go to every time we need something researched.

In HoT, we give her a project to keep her busy, so that she's out of harm's way while we stomp a dragon.

After the dragon is stomped, the other four all part ways with us to do their own things, as do two others we picked up, leaving Taimi as the only person we have to work with. Fortunately, that project we gave her turns out to be useful. She therefore takes up Marjory's slack and works closely with us for about half a season, with a break in the middle.

She then sits out PoF, but that's fine, because three of the others have come back, and we work with them instead.

Season 4, thus far, has seen the rest of the others come back, and three of them have had major character moments, Taimi among them.

At the moment, all told, she is probably the fourth or fifth most prominent NPC still in the story, depending on how you weight total previous prominence vs. recent prominence.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Tickle.5247 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:You refer to her actions to Phlunt, who literally tried to steal her work and take credit for it. Even before that, he was insulting to her, and treats everyone as idiotic and less than him.

You do realise that irl in a university or even in industry, any research you do is the property of the institution that is mentoring you and the project lead is the one credited with the discoveries.

Phlunt's actions are perfectly justified.

The university still gives credit to the inventor, while Phlunt tried to take credit for inventing the device himself.

@Tickle.5247 said:That's like saying the president of the united states doesn't have power of a nuclear arsenal because they have only used it once or twice.

No, it'd be like saying, the former presidents of the US don't have power of a nuclear arsenal because they no longer have access to it.

Taimi didn't have access to Omadd's Machine the entire time. Just like she didn't have access to Rata Novus the entire time.

@Tickle.5247 said:You have gone fully off the deep end here. I have said that Taimi has use of a literal deus ex machina, which she does, which i have shown. And you proceed to use your own specific definition of a deus ex machina, ignoring mine, and straw-man my argument, claiming that i'm claiming that Taimi is a deus ex machina when my argument is clearly that she employees the use of deus ex machinas. To quote my OP:

Because you are so unable to comprehend that phrases can have multiple uses or meanings, and that you are now using logical fallacies, i can only conclude that you are either a troll or are a special friend.

No one gives a shit about "literal dues ex machina" because Balthazar being inside Taimi's Machine (which would be a literal dues ex machina, a god in a machine) isn't poor writing. And Taimi does not have a god inside of a machine literally at any point in the game.

And while phrases may have multiple uses or meanings in general, "dues ex machina" in the scope of writing, only has one meaning. And that's what I was talking about. Any other attempted usage of the phrase is simply put, false.

@Tickle.5247 said:Because he acts like someone who is friend-zoned, which i have demonstrated, and which you are demonstrating your ignorance of.

Except that they aren't, and you haven't demonstrated accurately at all. You claim something is it, but that doesn't make your claim correct. As evident by this entire thread, you're the sole person who see this odd romanticism in play.

@Tickle.5247 said:Okay what about any other character in the guild wars universe that should be more important than Taimi or anyone who isn't?

I'll tell you why, either because anet are lazy writers, or they want to force Taimi down our throats until we choke.

In the scope of how Long Live the Lich begins - with the brothers being incapable of communications - the one who would be most likely to communicate this to the Commander is, logically speaking, Taimi. The entire trial was created for two purposes 1) to bring us to Amnoon (specifically, a place where Tyria is not affected but the action would be a surefire declaration of war against Tyria) for the plague shipment; 2) to have the brothers tell us that "only humans are vulnerable". As such, Anet needed some reason to go to Amnoon to meet the brothers to fulfill this. While they could have just had the brothers communicate to us via Taimi's communicator, they decided to up the drama beforehand with the trial, leaving Taimi as the only viable option.

@Tickle.5247 said:The fact that you can't understand why introducing new characters to a story is interesting makes me think that you don't understand story mechanics and are socially deficient.

Protip: the reason why introducing new characters to a story is important is because sometimes we meet new people irl (assuming you leave your parents basement).

I said nothing about introducing new characters in general. I'm talking about our very first introduction to a character being a "hey commander come over here" kind of introduction at the beginning of a plot. It's all too easy to make very jarring.

@Tickle.5247 said:Each of the other people in that list only appear once. That means that Taimi is 4X more influential in initiating chapters than anyone else in the GW2 universe. In the last 5 episodes, 4 of them are initiated by Taimi ie 80% of them.

How many people have communicators for fast, reliable, direct communication?

@Tickle.5247 said:I'd like to share a theory.

You know how in games like "The Witcher" you can't select a character because "The Witcher" is "Geralt's story"?

Maybe GW2 really is about Taimi.

GW2 is "really about" Glint's Legacy. That's the underlying plot that has been present since Season 1. Arguably since the Edge of Destiny novel, really. Just as GW1 was about Abaddon's revenge.

Like GW1's first three installments and updates inbetween, GW2 has two "main plots" at any given time. The "immediate threat plots" - Zhaitan, Scarlet, Mordremoth, Balthazar, Kralkatorrik. This one changes as time goes on, as we defeat the immediate threat and a new one comes up. Then there's the "underlying, continuous plot" - Glint's Legacy.

You're the only person who sees this massive focus on Taimi.

[Fenella.2634]

@Tickle.5247 said:GW2 is just a massive social experiment to create the biggest friend-zone in existence.We must be playing different games. :lol: I can rather believe Braham being friend-zoned by Rox than anything romantic concerning the PC.Sorry about your head canon, I guess?

[norbes.3620]

@Tickle.5247

Prob with ur Goethe Quote is that u Claim that everyone who do not believe in ur Story is automatically friend zoned himself and cant make a viable Argument. thus u ignore every other Argument than ur own cuz they are all not sufficent.. thats intolerant behavior and absolut kitten cuz ist not going anywhere but obviously ur overseeing that this Quote is also usable on urself so all ur arguments are not sufficent too.

this in mind we can stop talking here because no one can say anything valuable cuz we are all enslaved in ur thoughts.

it is like asking if u see ur bones sticking out while looking in the mirror..no matter what u say i can turn it into a form of mental desease regarding ur eating Habits

so please drop this and bring something acceptable for the conversation insteadas Long as u cn make ur Points u dont Need to turn some dead end Argument into me ur showing with that that u reached ur Limits and cant find any more arguments for ur case

[Oglaf.1074]

The tl;dr notes on Taimi is the following:

Anet writers are kinda lazy and need a token Asura to pull a Deus Ex Machina out of their butt to constantly move the plot forward. Thus the apparent focus on Taimi over all other supporting NPCs.

Seriously, replay the chapters involving Balthazar and keep count on how often they rely on it. :weary:

[perilisk.1874]

@Oglaf.1074 said:Seriously, replay the chapters involving Balthazar and keep count on how often they rely on it. :weary:

It isn't that bad. HoT establishes that the Rata Novans thought each dragon had a weakness, so obviously she is pursing that angle and generally studying dragons and ley lines. There are two episodes where you're running around getting data for her to study regarding Primordus and Jormag being active and hybridizing their minions, and she's acting as a lore dump and a reason to go to random maps. The only real Deus ex Machina is in episode 5, which involves both a literal Deus and Machina. I can't even remember if she did anything in episode 6, but that was BS for so many other reasons.