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What GW2 lacks and how we can make it better

Daniel.5428

By Daniel.5428
in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

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Linken.6345

Linken.6345

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@BunjiKugashira.9754 said:

@BunjiKugashira.9754 said:Honestly fractals feel bland and generic. They're supposed to be an asura crew's research project and yet you learn next to nothing about the places you visit. And then the fractals are too short to learn anything about the NPCs you encounter.

I would disagree on that, well some fractals are short and offer little to no story or w/e but others do offer insites into places, the sunspear one could be an example or the chaos -> nightmare -> mistlock

I agree that the chaos -> nightmare -> mistlock fractals have a nice little story-chain explaining a bit more about what the fractals are and who else is interested in them. However especially for older fractals there are so many possibilities to explore Tyria's rich lore and history, and they're all wasted.

Urban Battleground:Who was Dulfy?Which city are you fighting in?What influence did this battle have on the human-charr war?When did this battle take place?

Aquatic Ruins:Who built these structures in the first place?Why are they now flooded? Or were they always flooded?Why do we have to kill the big Jellyfish?

Deepstone:How did the dwarves live?What was their society like?What purpose did this place serve before it was abadoned?

Even the fractals that were taken straight from LS1 dungeons are completely taken out of context and tell new players who missed LS1 next to nothing about what happened. It feels like we only have these fractals in order to have these fractals.

Looks like someone havent listen to the npcs they tell you that deepstone is a treasure vault.

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Yamazuki.6073

Yamazuki.6073

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@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:What pvp desperately needs is a game mode thats not 5v5 point-dominationWithout any variety or new modes spvp will die

New maps/modes wouldn't help pvp in the
long term
.

@"Linken.6345" said:You guys keep saying raiding community is toxic, ever thought you get back what you sling at others?

This assumes anyone who acknowledges this fact has been a victim. I have not been one, meanwhile I see it happen to others. it's normal for any "end game" content for any game.

Huh? its the
only
thing that can help spvp in the long term.Long-term players are dropping because they are bored to death of the same game mode over and over without any real variey.

If that were true then competitive pvp games wouldn't last more than a year, most of their focus goes into a single game mode with only a couple options. More modes divides the population, which results in higher que times, which results in less people wanting to play.

Pvp dying had nothing to do with the lack of game modes, all it would do is increase activity for a week at best until people get "bored" of it.

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Raizel.8175

Raizel.8175

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@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

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yann.1946

yann.1946

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@Raizel.8175 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

But this is sort off false tho. The chalice of tears is much more inaccessible then most raidbosses are.The mesmers portal long you are as much a way to bypass the system as buying a raid are. (in the sense that you're not actually doing the content.)

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Raizel.8175

Raizel.8175

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@yann.1946 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

But this is sort off false tho. The chalice of tears is much more inaccessible then most raidbosses are.The mesmers portal long you are as much a way to bypass the system as buying a raid are. (in the sense that you're not actually doing the content.)

You really want to compare accessibility to a somewhat more "complex" JP - which even has checkpoints! - with accessiblity to raid-content? Sure, you have your easy encounters like Escort and W4B123, but still, the comparison is totally off. x'D

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yann.1946

yann.1946

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@Raizel.8175 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

But this is sort off false tho. The chalice of tears is much more inaccessible then most raidbosses are.The mesmers portal long you are as much a way to bypass the system as buying a raid are. (in the sense that you're not actually doing the content.)

You really want to compare accessibility to a somewhat more "complex" JP - which even has checkpoints! - with accessiblity to raid-content? Sure, you have your easy encounters like Escort and W4B123, but still, the comparison is totally off. x'D

Yes because the responsibility is much higher. The only reason I could do chalice is because I have friends who like jp and have mesmers. While you don't need to know anyone within the raid community to start raiding.

Not saying their are no issues. But to me someone saying locking Aurora behind lw is great while locking coalescence is the worst thing ever seems hypocritical at best.

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flog.3485

flog.3485

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@Raizel.8175 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

No offense here, but I think the biggest problem is that you assume that everything has be to accessible in a pug scenario in a quick way. Kind of like how, the legendary items that are awarded through raids shouldn’t be considered as long term progression.

Your example of accessibility’s doesn’t make much sense imo. In terms of gear and stats, yes it is true that accessibility in this game is king whether you decide to play open world or SPvP or WvW, because each of these examples allow a player to gear up in ascended.

However, when it comes to cosmetic....There is just no way to make everything accessible to anyone with the lowest interest possible.

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Raizel.8175

Raizel.8175

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@flog.3485 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

No offense here, but I think the biggest problem is that you assume that everything has be to accessible in a pug scenario in a quick way. Kind of like how, the legendary items that are awarded through raids shouldn’t be considered as long term progression.

Your example of accessibility’s doesn’t make much sense imo. In terms of gear and stats, yes it is true that accessibility in this game is king whether you decide to play open world or SPvP or WvW, because each of these examples allow a player to gear up in ascended.

However, when it comes to cosmetic....There is just no way to make everything accessible to anyone with the lowest interest possible.

What? I don't really understand you. Raids are quite inaccessible due to them being designed as niche-content. They're inaccessible since the difficulty-step from mostly braindead open-world- and story-content to raids is too high, especially since people don't really learn anything in open world and story. That's why we sadly have this darwinistic hierarchy. Raids are also fairly inaccessible because most content in this game is unsocial since it's too easy/single-player-focused that any meaningful social interaction isn't necessary. Even in raids, you barely have any social interaction anyway. That's why - yes - ArenaNet has to make stuff accessible to PUGs and you can also see that ArenaNet is somewhat balancing the game with PUGs in mind. They went in that direction and can't turn back now.

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Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

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@yann.1946 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

But this is sort off false tho. The chalice of tears is much more inaccessible then most raidbosses are.The mesmers portal long you are as much a way to bypass the system as buying a raid are. (in the sense that you're not actually doing the content.)

You really want to compare accessibility to a somewhat more "complex" JP - which even has checkpoints! - with accessiblity to raid-content? Sure, you have your easy encounters like Escort and W4B123, but still, the comparison is totally off. x'D

Yes because the responsibility is much higher. The only reason I could do chalice is because I have friends who like jp and have mesmers. While you don't need to know anyone within the raid community to start raiding.

Not saying their are no issues. But to me someone saying locking Aurora behind lw is great while locking coalescence is the worst thing ever seems hypocritical at best.

There are a couple of JP's I couldn't manage because of my fear of heights. I don't have any friends in game because I play it solo and stay away from guilds. My choice. However, that means I have no friends to do the JPs for me either. And yet I have them done.

And that's why you're incorrect about needing a friend for JP's. In GW2 there are people out there that actually offer runs to do things like that and I've also asked for help with HP's in HoT and surprise surprise, I got help from people that I didn't know at all.

So your argument that you need to have a friend to do that for you is simply not true.

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yann.1946

yann.1946

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@Gehenna.3625 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

But this is sort off false tho. The chalice of tears is much more inaccessible then most raidbosses are.The mesmers portal long you are as much a way to bypass the system as buying a raid are. (in the sense that you're not actually doing the content.)

You really want to compare accessibility to a somewhat more "complex" JP - which even has checkpoints! - with accessiblity to raid-content? Sure, you have your easy encounters like Escort and W4B123, but still, the comparison is totally off. x'D

Yes because the responsibility is much higher. The only reason I could do chalice is because I have friends who like jp and have mesmers. While you don't need to know anyone within the raid community to start raiding.

Not saying their are no issues. But to me someone saying locking Aurora behind lw is great while locking coalescence is the worst thing ever seems hypocritical at best.

There are a couple of JP's I couldn't manage because of my fear of heights. I don't have any friends in game because I play it solo and stay away from guilds. My choice. However, that means I have no friends to do the JPs for me either. And yet I have them done.

And that's why you're incorrect about needing a friend for JP's. In GW2 there are people out there that actually offer runs to do things like that and I've also asked for help with HP's in HoT and surprise surprise, I got help from people that I didn't know at all.

So your argument that you need to have a friend to do that for you is simply not true.

We'll yes but their are also people who do this for raids. But they don't count because?

My point was that the accessibility is not that different.

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Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

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@yann.1946 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

But this is sort off false tho. The chalice of tears is much more inaccessible then most raidbosses are.The mesmers portal long you are as much a way to bypass the system as buying a raid are. (in the sense that you're not actually doing the content.)

You really want to compare accessibility to a somewhat more "complex" JP - which even has checkpoints! - with accessiblity to raid-content? Sure, you have your easy encounters like Escort and W4B123, but still, the comparison is totally off. x'D

Yes because the responsibility is much higher. The only reason I could do chalice is because I have friends who like jp and have mesmers. While you don't need to know anyone within the raid community to start raiding.

Not saying their are no issues. But to me someone saying locking Aurora behind lw is great while locking coalescence is the worst thing ever seems hypocritical at best.

There are a couple of JP's I couldn't manage because of my fear of heights. I don't have any friends in game because I play it solo and stay away from guilds. My choice. However, that means I have no friends to do the JPs for me either. And yet I have them done.

And that's why you're incorrect about needing a friend for JP's. In GW2 there are people out there that actually offer runs to do things like that and I've also asked for help with HP's in HoT and surprise surprise, I got help from people that I didn't know at all.

So your argument that you need to have a friend to do that for you is simply not true.

We'll yes but their are also people who do this for raids. But they don't count because?

My point was that the accessibility is not that different.

Well getting in a group for a raid is different in accessibility. Maybe not literal accessibility but to do a raid there are requirements. This comes with the territory of enrage timers. Jump Puzzles don't have those. So to do raid content and succeed everybody needs to play their part and do enough DPS or fill specific support/tanky roles.

So that's also part of accessibility. Having someone port you to the end of a JP only requires you to step into the portals, which anyone can do. For raids there's a lot more involved and so that works prohibitive. Also you need to find a raid group that wants to take you in. Being inexperienced or generally poor at such content because you don't really get these stats and traits and rotations etc. does limit things, because raiders tend to expect you to do your homework first, which by the way is not an unfair expectation.

So you'll have to find a group that is willing to teach you and give you the chance to fail a few times and then you will have to hit certain targets because there is a DPS requirement because of the timer.

Really, it's very different from getting ported through a JP. And some of this may not be literal accessibility issues but they are definitely prohibitive for a lot of people.

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flog.3485

flog.3485

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@Raizel.8175 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

No offense here, but I think the biggest problem is that you assume that everything has be to accessible in a pug scenario in a quick way. Kind of like how, the legendary items that are awarded through raids shouldn’t be considered as long term progression.

Your example of accessibility’s doesn’t make much sense imo. In terms of gear and stats, yes it is true that accessibility in this game is king whether you decide to play open world or SPvP or WvW, because each of these examples allow a player to gear up in ascended.

However, when it comes to cosmetic....There is just no way to make everything accessible to anyone with the lowest interest possible.

What? I don't really understand you. Raids are quite inaccessible due to them being designed as niche-content. They're inaccessible since the difficulty-step from mostly braindead open-world- and story-content to raids is too high, especially since people don't really learn anything in open world and story. That's why we sadly have this darwinistic hierarchy. Raids are also fairly inaccessible because most content in this game is unsocial since it's too easy/single-player-focused that any meaningful social interaction isn't necessary. Even in raids, you barely have any social interaction anyway. That's why - yes - ArenaNet has to make stuff accessible to PUGs and you can also see that ArenaNet is somewhat balancing the game with PUGs in mind. They went in that direction and can't turn back now.

Everything you wrote is exactly why I think the game shouldn’t head in that direction.

I think it is bad to bring instanced content of high-end PvE closer to the difficulty of open world and story mode because as a player who mostly do story and easy PvE, I am certainly not looking forward to playing instanced content of higher PvE the same way I can play open world and story. If you do so you kill PvE the same way they killed dungeons in terms of difficulty. There should be a limit to how easy the content gets over time and offering reworks and balance patch that makes it easier is good enough for that.

The thing is, no matter how puggable the content is, it will always be restrictive. You can’t reproduce the easy going nature of open world PvE into instanced challenging content. And using the shortcomings of raids as a scapegoat to not embrace the idea that the PoF raid wings should award a legendary ring is a dangerous argument to offer. that makes the game very stale imo; knowing that anyway, you are arguing about a ring that is nobody has crafted yet while also not acknowledging that obtaining a ring with stat-swaps can already be done in bloodstone fen.

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yann.1946

yann.1946

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@Gehenna.3625 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

But this is sort off false tho. The chalice of tears is much more inaccessible then most raidbosses are.The mesmers portal long you are as much a way to bypass the system as buying a raid are. (in the sense that you're not actually doing the content.)

You really want to compare accessibility to a somewhat more "complex" JP - which even has checkpoints! - with accessiblity to raid-content? Sure, you have your easy encounters like Escort and W4B123, but still, the comparison is totally off. x'D

Yes because the responsibility is much higher. The only reason I could do chalice is because I have friends who like jp and have mesmers. While you don't need to know anyone within the raid community to start raiding.

Not saying their are no issues. But to me someone saying locking Aurora behind lw is great while locking coalescence is the worst thing ever seems hypocritical at best.

There are a couple of JP's I couldn't manage because of my fear of heights. I don't have any friends in game because I play it solo and stay away from guilds. My choice. However, that means I have no friends to do the JPs for me either. And yet I have them done.

And that's why you're incorrect about needing a friend for JP's. In GW2 there are people out there that actually offer runs to do things like that and I've also asked for help with HP's in HoT and surprise surprise, I got help from people that I didn't know at all.

So your argument that you need to have a friend to do that for you is simply not true.

We'll yes but their are also people who do this for raids. But they don't count because?

My point was that the accessibility is not that different.

Well getting in a group for a raid is different in accessibility. Maybe not literal accessibility but to do a raid there are requirements. This comes with the territory of enrage timers. Jump Puzzles don't have those. So to do raid content and succeed everybody needs to play their part and do enough DPS or fill specific support/tanky roles.

So that's also part of accessibility. Having someone port you to the end of a JP only requires you to step into the portals, which anyone can do. For raids there's a lot more involved and so that works prohibitive. Also you need to find a raid group that wants to take you in. Being inexperienced or generally poor at such content because you don't really get these stats and traits and rotations etc. does limit things, because raiders tend to expect you to do your homework first, which by the way is not an unfair expectation.

So you'll have to find a group that is willing to teach you and give you the chance to fail a few times and then you will have to hit certain targets because there is a DPS requirement because of the timer.

Really, it's very different from getting ported through a JP. And some of this may not be literal accessibility issues but they are definitely prohibitive for a lot of people.

If course their are things which stop people from wanting to raid. And less people raid then do open world agree. But to me they seem equally inaccessible. The difference is that it takes less effort to circumvent one then the other.

Don't you agree that if you are in favor of locking one trinket to specific content its more consistent to be in favor for the otelher one?

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Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

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@yann.1946 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

But this is sort off false tho. The chalice of tears is much more inaccessible then most raidbosses are.The mesmers portal long you are as much a way to bypass the system as buying a raid are. (in the sense that you're not actually doing the content.)

You really want to compare accessibility to a somewhat more "complex" JP - which even has checkpoints! - with accessiblity to raid-content? Sure, you have your easy encounters like Escort and W4B123, but still, the comparison is totally off. x'D

Yes because the responsibility is much higher. The only reason I could do chalice is because I have friends who like jp and have mesmers. While you don't need to know anyone within the raid community to start raiding.

Not saying their are no issues. But to me someone saying locking Aurora behind lw is great while locking coalescence is the worst thing ever seems hypocritical at best.

There are a couple of JP's I couldn't manage because of my fear of heights. I don't have any friends in game because I play it solo and stay away from guilds. My choice. However, that means I have no friends to do the JPs for me either. And yet I have them done.

And that's why you're incorrect about needing a friend for JP's. In GW2 there are people out there that actually offer runs to do things like that and I've also asked for help with HP's in HoT and surprise surprise, I got help from people that I didn't know at all.

So your argument that you need to have a friend to do that for you is simply not true.

We'll yes but their are also people who do this for raids. But they don't count because?

My point was that the accessibility is not that different.

Well getting in a group for a raid is different in accessibility. Maybe not literal accessibility but to do a raid there are requirements. This comes with the territory of enrage timers. Jump Puzzles don't have those. So to do raid content and succeed everybody needs to play their part and do enough DPS or fill specific support/tanky roles.

So that's also part of accessibility. Having someone port you to the end of a JP only requires you to step into the portals, which anyone can do. For raids there's a lot more involved and so that works prohibitive. Also you need to find a raid group that wants to take you in. Being inexperienced or generally poor at such content because you don't really get these stats and traits and rotations etc. does limit things, because raiders tend to expect you to do your homework first, which by the way is not an unfair expectation.

So you'll have to find a group that is willing to teach you and give you the chance to fail a few times and then you will have to hit certain targets because there is a DPS requirement because of the timer.

Really, it's very different from getting ported through a JP. And some of this may not be literal accessibility issues but they are definitely prohibitive for a lot of people.

If course their are things which stop people from wanting to raid. And less people raid then do open world agree. But to me they seem equally inaccessible. The difference is that it takes less effort to circumvent one then the other.

Don't you agree that if you are in favor of locking one trinket to specific content its more consistent to be in favor for the otelher one?

Well I think that the difference in effort is quite big and that it's not just about effort because, in spite of what people like to think, not everybody can do everything just by putting in effort. That's a fairy tale. Raiding is a hardcore activity even when people call it simple and is not within reach for many people. People who think anybody can learn to raid properly underestimate their own capabilities and overestimate people in general. But that's another topic.

I'm not sure how to interpret your question so I'll just say where I stand on it. In 2011 there were numbers about solo players in multi-player games and it was about 19% of the total population back then. I think it's fair to state that solo players have become more of a thing since then and so I feel I can safely state that solo play is an important chunk of the population. Here's a video where a game designer discusses the topic of solo players if you're interested. It's from 2011 but the video is over 50 minutes. It does however answer the question quite well about why people play solo

What this means is that whenever you create content or rewards that are aimed at group play, there will be a significant group of people that it will not reach. Of course on the other side there has to be a fair reward for those who do engage in this content. The simple answer is to give rewards to different player groups. That means that some legendary gear is aimed at raiders. Well, we have that. Some of it is aimed at PvP'ers. And we have that as well. What we do not have though is legendary stuff that is aimed at players who do not participate in group content or rarely, be it raids/fractals or pvp/wvw.

So from my point of view I do not say that the same exact rewards should be offered to each group, however, I do think it there should be something for those who do not engage in group content regularly since they are in fact a significant group. Incidentally I do not include open world events and world bosses as group content in that, but group content where you have to work as a team and so aside from a couple of exceptions world bosses and events do not apply cause everybody can just jump in and do their thing. This is actually ideal for solo players but ok.

One of the reasons I do not have any legendary weapons is because they require the gift of battle and war which require to do sPvP and WvW and a fair bit of it. I do not have legendary armor because it requires the same or raiding. I do not do any of this in this game (I was very involved in raiding in SWTOR but haven't found it interesting here). Considering that you can save up and buy your legendary weapons from the TP, it also is not really representative of your effort cause it could've been bought.

I will admit I'm not entirely sure what exactly is involved in these legendary trinkets but I assume again that it requires some form of group content at least and so I'm out. For me that's a choice for others not so much. However, if there were legendaries that were based on open world activities rather than group content, then I might find myself interested in going for those.

So clearly they shouldn't be the same skins as to not devaluate the existing legendary gear but I can see the point of having such things in GW2. Whether or not ArenaNet are interested in doing that I do not know but it could appeal to solo players and PvE players in general.

I mean I have more ideas about how to approach this but I think that where in the past the distinction was made between pvp and pve (which assumed raiding to be included), I think that nowadays there are 3 main groups to consider: pvp, pve and solo. I think all 3 groups are important. In SWTOR for example, one of the mistakes they've made is to focus on one of them at the cost of others and it's cost them players in the end. Now I do realise there are also players who like two or even all 3 activities but generally even they have a favorite and if not the 3 activities still exist and need updates.

Think of it this way. Let's say that in GW2 we get an expansion next year and it focuses on pvp and grouped pve and open world get virtually nothing. Then those last two groups are going to lose players. However, this will happen no matter which group you focus on at the cost of the others. I hear a lot of talk that in GW2 sPvP is dead and I get conflicting messages with regards to WvW on that matter but the complains are generally about lack of balance and new content. So yeah, you lose players when that doesn't get attention for a while.

Same goes for structured group content in PvE and open world/story content which is largely the area of solo players. If too little is done over a certain period of time you lose players there. So expansions are best when they address all the activities rather than focus on one. Not necessarily in equal amounts because not all content is consumed equally but enough so that all player groups feel like they've been taken seriously. And of course there will always be complaints no matter what you do, so the presence of complaints is not a measurement of failure in that though if enough different players complain (not the same 5 people regurgitating their complaints ad infinitum) it could be an indicator of course.

So do we need legendary gear that can be obtained without participating in structured group content? Well need is a big word so I can't answer that, but I do think it would be a good addition that a lot of people could get behind.

Hopefully that tells you where I stand on this and with a bit of luck that also answered your question :)

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yann.1946

yann.1946

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@Gehenna.3625 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

But this is sort off false tho. The chalice of tears is much more inaccessible then most raidbosses are.The mesmers portal long you are as much a way to bypass the system as buying a raid are. (in the sense that you're not actually doing the content.)

You really want to compare accessibility to a somewhat more "complex" JP - which even has checkpoints! - with accessiblity to raid-content? Sure, you have your easy encounters like Escort and W4B123, but still, the comparison is totally off. x'D

Yes because the responsibility is much higher. The only reason I could do chalice is because I have friends who like jp and have mesmers. While you don't need to know anyone within the raid community to start raiding.

Not saying their are no issues. But to me someone saying locking Aurora behind lw is great while locking coalescence is the worst thing ever seems hypocritical at best.

There are a couple of JP's I couldn't manage because of my fear of heights. I don't have any friends in game because I play it solo and stay away from guilds. My choice. However, that means I have no friends to do the JPs for me either. And yet I have them done.

And that's why you're incorrect about needing a friend for JP's. In GW2 there are people out there that actually offer runs to do things like that and I've also asked for help with HP's in HoT and surprise surprise, I got help from people that I didn't know at all.

So your argument that you need to have a friend to do that for you is simply not true.

We'll yes but their are also people who do this for raids. But they don't count because?

My point was that the accessibility is not that different.

Well getting in a group for a raid is different in accessibility. Maybe not literal accessibility but to do a raid there are requirements. This comes with the territory of enrage timers. Jump Puzzles don't have those. So to do raid content and succeed everybody needs to play their part and do enough DPS or fill specific support/tanky roles.

So that's also part of accessibility. Having someone port you to the end of a JP only requires you to step into the portals, which anyone can do. For raids there's a lot more involved and so that works prohibitive. Also you need to find a raid group that wants to take you in. Being inexperienced or generally poor at such content because you don't really get these stats and traits and rotations etc. does limit things, because raiders tend to expect you to do your homework first, which by the way is not an unfair expectation.

So you'll have to find a group that is willing to teach you and give you the chance to fail a few times and then you will have to hit certain targets because there is a DPS requirement because of the timer.

Really, it's very different from getting ported through a JP. And some of this may not be literal accessibility issues but they are definitely prohibitive for a lot of people.

If course their are things which stop people from wanting to raid. And less people raid then do open world agree. But to me they seem equally inaccessible. The difference is that it takes less effort to circumvent one then the other.

Don't you agree that if you are in favor of locking one trinket to specific content its more consistent to be in favor for the otelher one?

Well I think that the difference in effort is quite big and that it's not just about effort because, in spite of what people like to think, not everybody can do everything just by putting in effort. That's a fairy tale. Raiding is a hardcore activity even when people call it simple and is not within reach for many people. People who think anybody can learn to raid properly underestimate their own capabilities and overestimate people in general. But that's another topic.

We'll I was also talking about the effort to circumvent the action nessecary. It's using portals for jumping puzzles for example.

I myself am horrible at jp and understand that not everyone is capable of the same thing.

I'm not sure how to interpret your question so I'll just say where I stand on it. In 2011 there were numbers about solo players in multi-player games and it was about 19% of the total population back then. I think it's fair to state that solo players have become more of a thing since then and so I feel I can safely state that solo play is an important chunk of the population. Here's a video where a game designer discusses the topic of solo players if you're interested. It's from 2011 but the video is over 50 minutes. It does however answer the question quite well about why people play solo

What this means is that whenever you create content or rewards that are aimed at group play, there will be a significant group of people that it will not reach. Of course on the other side there has to be a fair reward for those who do engage in this content. The simple answer is to give rewards to different player groups. That means that some legendary gear is aimed at raiders. Well, we have that. Some of it is aimed at PvP'ers. And we have that as well. What we do not have though is legendary stuff that is aimed at players who do not participate in group content or rarely, be it raids/fractals or pvp/wvw.

So from my point of view I do not say that the same exact rewards should be offered to each group, however, I do think it there should be something for those who do not engage in group content regularly since they are in fact a significant group. Incidentally I do not include open world events and world bosses as group content in that, but group content where you have to work as a team and so aside from a couple of exceptions world bosses and events do not apply cause everybody can just jump in and do their thing. This is actually ideal for solo players but ok.

One of the reasons I do not have any legendary weapons is because they require the gift of battle and war which require to do sPvP and WvW and a fair bit of it. I do not have legendary armor because it requires the same or raiding. I do not do any of this in this game (I was very involved in raiding in SWTOR but haven't found it interesting here). Considering that you can save up and buy your legendary weapons from the TP, it also is not really representative of your effort cause it could've been bought.

I will admit I'm not entirely sure what exactly is involved in these legendary trinkets but I assume again that it requires some form of group content at least and so I'm out. For me that's a choice for others not so much. However, if there were legendaries that were based on open world activities rather than group content, then I might find myself interested in going for those.

So clearly they shouldn't be the same skins as to not devaluate the existing legendary gear but I can see the point of having such things in GW2. Whether or not ArenaNet are interested in doing that I do not know but it could appeal to solo players and PvE players in general.

I mean I have more ideas about how to approach this but I think that where in the past the distinction was made between pvp and pve (which assumed raiding to be included), I think that nowadays there are 3 main groups to consider: pvp, pve and solo. I think all 3 groups are important. In SWTOR for example, one of the mistakes they've made is to focus on one of them at the cost of others and it's cost them players in the end. Now I do realise there are also players who like two or even all 3 activities but generally even they have a favorite and if not the 3 activities still exist and need updates.

Think of it this way. Let's say that in GW2 we get an expansion next year and it focuses on pvp and grouped pve and open world get virtually nothing. Then those last two groups are going to lose players. However, this will happen no matter which group you focus on at the cost of the others. I hear a lot of talk that in GW2 sPvP is dead and I get conflicting messages with regards to WvW on that matter but the complains are generally about lack of balance and new content. So yeah, you lose players when that doesn't get attention for a while.

Same goes for structured group content in PvE and open world/story content which is largely the area of solo players. If too little is done over a certain period of time you lose players there. So expansions are best when they address all the activities rather than focus on one. Not necessarily in equal amounts because not all content is consumed equally but enough so that all player groups feel like they've been taken seriously. And of course there will always be complaints no matter what you do, so the presence of complaints is not a measurement of failure in that though if enough different players complain (not the same 5 people regurgitating their complaints ad infinitum) it could be an indicator of course.

So do we need legendary gear that can be obtained without participating in structured group content? Well need is a big word so I can't answer that, but I do think it would be a good addition that a lot of people could get behind.

Hopefully that tells you where I stand on this and with a bit of luck that also answered your question :)

I agree that their should be legendary for everyone (Aurora is an lw legendary so maybe that's to you're taste)

My point was that it's as bad thing to lock a ring behind raids as it is to lock an accessory behind jp etc.

People might not be able to do it yet they might find a way to get to the goal.

On a tangent, I wonder how many people have done done the chalice of tears without being ported in comparison to those who raided for coalescence.

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Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

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@yann.1946 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

But this is sort off false tho. The chalice of tears is much more inaccessible then most raidbosses are.The mesmers portal long you are as much a way to bypass the system as buying a raid are. (in the sense that you're not actually doing the content.)

You really want to compare accessibility to a somewhat more "complex" JP - which even has checkpoints! - with accessiblity to raid-content? Sure, you have your easy encounters like Escort and W4B123, but still, the comparison is totally off. x'D

Yes because the responsibility is much higher. The only reason I could do chalice is because I have friends who like jp and have mesmers. While you don't need to know anyone within the raid community to start raiding.

Not saying their are no issues. But to me someone saying locking Aurora behind lw is great while locking coalescence is the worst thing ever seems hypocritical at best.

There are a couple of JP's I couldn't manage because of my fear of heights. I don't have any friends in game because I play it solo and stay away from guilds. My choice. However, that means I have no friends to do the JPs for me either. And yet I have them done.

And that's why you're incorrect about needing a friend for JP's. In GW2 there are people out there that actually offer runs to do things like that and I've also asked for help with HP's in HoT and surprise surprise, I got help from people that I didn't know at all.

So your argument that you need to have a friend to do that for you is simply not true.

We'll yes but their are also people who do this for raids. But they don't count because?

My point was that the accessibility is not that different.

Well getting in a group for a raid is different in accessibility. Maybe not literal accessibility but to do a raid there are requirements. This comes with the territory of enrage timers. Jump Puzzles don't have those. So to do raid content and succeed everybody needs to play their part and do enough DPS or fill specific support/tanky roles.

So that's also part of accessibility. Having someone port you to the end of a JP only requires you to step into the portals, which anyone can do. For raids there's a lot more involved and so that works prohibitive. Also you need to find a raid group that wants to take you in. Being inexperienced or generally poor at such content because you don't really get these stats and traits and rotations etc. does limit things, because raiders tend to expect you to do your homework first, which by the way is not an unfair expectation.

So you'll have to find a group that is willing to teach you and give you the chance to fail a few times and then you will have to hit certain targets because there is a DPS requirement because of the timer.

Really, it's very different from getting ported through a JP. And some of this may not be literal accessibility issues but they are definitely prohibitive for a lot of people.

If course their are things which stop people from wanting to raid. And less people raid then do open world agree. But to me they seem equally inaccessible. The difference is that it takes less effort to circumvent one then the other.

Don't you agree that if you are in favor of locking one trinket to specific content its more consistent to be in favor for the otelher one?

Well I think that the difference in effort is quite big and that it's not just about effort because, in spite of what people like to think, not everybody can do everything just by putting in effort. That's a fairy tale. Raiding is a hardcore activity even when people call it simple and is not within reach for many people. People who think anybody can learn to raid properly underestimate their own capabilities and overestimate people in general. But that's another topic.

We'll I was also talking about the effort to circumvent the action nessecary. It's using portals for jumping puzzles for example.

I myself am horrible at jp and understand that not everyone is capable of the same thing.

I'm not sure how to interpret your question so I'll just say where I stand on it. In 2011 there were numbers about solo players in multi-player games and it was about 19% of the total population back then. I think it's fair to state that solo players have become more of a thing since then and so I feel I can safely state that solo play is an important chunk of the population. Here's a video where a game designer discusses the topic of solo players if you're interested. It's from 2011 but the video is over 50 minutes. It does however answer the question quite well about why people play solo

What this means is that whenever you create content or rewards that are aimed at group play, there will be a significant group of people that it will not reach. Of course on the other side there has to be a fair reward for those who do engage in this content. The simple answer is to give rewards to different player groups. That means that some legendary gear is aimed at raiders. Well, we have that. Some of it is aimed at PvP'ers. And we have that as well. What we do not have though is legendary stuff that is aimed at players who do not participate in group content or rarely, be it raids/fractals or pvp/wvw.

So from my point of view I do not say that the same exact rewards should be offered to each group, however, I do think it there should be something for those who do not engage in group content regularly since they are in fact a significant group. Incidentally I do not include open world events and world bosses as group content in that, but group content where you have to work as a team and so aside from a couple of exceptions world bosses and events do not apply cause everybody can just jump in and do their thing. This is actually ideal for solo players but ok.

One of the reasons I do not have any legendary weapons is because they require the gift of battle and war which require to do sPvP and WvW and a fair bit of it. I do not have legendary armor because it requires the same or raiding. I do not do any of this in this game (I was very involved in raiding in SWTOR but haven't found it interesting here). Considering that you can save up and buy your legendary weapons from the TP, it also is not really representative of your effort cause it could've been bought.

I will admit I'm not entirely sure what exactly is involved in these legendary trinkets but I assume again that it requires some form of group content at least and so I'm out. For me that's a choice for others not so much. However, if there were legendaries that were based on open world activities rather than group content, then I might find myself interested in going for those.

So clearly they shouldn't be the same skins as to not devaluate the existing legendary gear but I can see the point of having such things in GW2. Whether or not ArenaNet are interested in doing that I do not know but it could appeal to solo players and PvE players in general.

I mean I have more ideas about how to approach this but I think that where in the past the distinction was made between pvp and pve (which assumed raiding to be included), I think that nowadays there are 3 main groups to consider: pvp, pve and solo. I think all 3 groups are important. In SWTOR for example, one of the mistakes they've made is to focus on one of them at the cost of others and it's cost them players in the end. Now I do realise there are also players who like two or even all 3 activities but generally even they have a favorite and if not the 3 activities still exist and need updates.

Think of it this way. Let's say that in GW2 we get an expansion next year and it focuses on pvp and grouped pve and open world get virtually nothing. Then those last two groups are going to lose players. However, this will happen no matter which group you focus on at the cost of the others. I hear a lot of talk that in GW2 sPvP is dead and I get conflicting messages with regards to WvW on that matter but the complains are generally about lack of balance and new content. So yeah, you lose players when that doesn't get attention for a while.

Same goes for structured group content in PvE and open world/story content which is largely the area of solo players. If too little is done over a certain period of time you lose players there. So expansions are best when they address all the activities rather than focus on one. Not necessarily in equal amounts because not all content is consumed equally but enough so that all player groups feel like they've been taken seriously. And of course there will always be complaints no matter what you do, so the presence of complaints is not a measurement of failure in that though if enough different players complain (not the same 5 people regurgitating their complaints ad infinitum) it could be an indicator of course.

So do we need legendary gear that can be obtained without participating in structured group content? Well need is a big word so I can't answer that, but I do think it would be a good addition that a lot of people could get behind.

Hopefully that tells you where I stand on this and with a bit of luck that also answered your question :)

I agree that their should be legendary for everyone (Aurora is an lw legendary so maybe that's to you're taste)

My point was that it's as bad thing to lock a ring behind raids as it is to lock an accessory behind jp etc.

People might not be able to do it yet they might find a way to get to the goal.

On a tangent, I wonder how many people have done done the chalice of tears without being ported in comparison to those who raided for coalescence.

Ahh I understand your point better now. Well to be fair, I got close myself to completing chalice of tears but it was near the end that I just kept missing stuff cause my hands were shaking basically. I spent 2 days trying to do that puzzle and at some point I just gave up.

Of course the difference is that when it comes to getting help to do a jump puzzle it's quite easy. To get help to finish a number of raids is quite another thing. The difference for me is this: Some stuff is locked behind raids so many people don't have it. Probably a vast majority of players don't have it. If it was locked behind this JP, everybody would have it because it's easy to get someone to take you there.

That means that in reality locking something behind JPs is not prohibitive because there is an easy way around it. Raids, not so much.

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sorudo.9054

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locking things behind stuff like WvW and fractals is bad in general, i wanted to do a legendary but the moment i saw fractals mentioned i gave up.IMO a legendary is something of a journey only in open worlds, something you need to chase by going to places you would normally never go.fractals are mission instances that has nothing to do with a journey, WvW is just a PvP arena with monsters and nothing else.

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yann.1946

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@Gehenna.3625 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

But this is sort off false tho. The chalice of tears is much more inaccessible then most raidbosses are.The mesmers portal long you are as much a way to bypass the system as buying a raid are. (in the sense that you're not actually doing the content.)

You really want to compare accessibility to a somewhat more "complex" JP - which even has checkpoints! - with accessiblity to raid-content? Sure, you have your easy encounters like Escort and W4B123, but still, the comparison is totally off. x'D

Yes because the responsibility is much higher. The only reason I could do chalice is because I have friends who like jp and have mesmers. While you don't need to know anyone within the raid community to start raiding.

Not saying their are no issues. But to me someone saying locking Aurora behind lw is great while locking coalescence is the worst thing ever seems hypocritical at best.

There are a couple of JP's I couldn't manage because of my fear of heights. I don't have any friends in game because I play it solo and stay away from guilds. My choice. However, that means I have no friends to do the JPs for me either. And yet I have them done.

And that's why you're incorrect about needing a friend for JP's. In GW2 there are people out there that actually offer runs to do things like that and I've also asked for help with HP's in HoT and surprise surprise, I got help from people that I didn't know at all.

So your argument that you need to have a friend to do that for you is simply not true.

We'll yes but their are also people who do this for raids. But they don't count because?

My point was that the accessibility is not that different.

Well getting in a group for a raid is different in accessibility. Maybe not literal accessibility but to do a raid there are requirements. This comes with the territory of enrage timers. Jump Puzzles don't have those. So to do raid content and succeed everybody needs to play their part and do enough DPS or fill specific support/tanky roles.

So that's also part of accessibility. Having someone port you to the end of a JP only requires you to step into the portals, which anyone can do. For raids there's a lot more involved and so that works prohibitive. Also you need to find a raid group that wants to take you in. Being inexperienced or generally poor at such content because you don't really get these stats and traits and rotations etc. does limit things, because raiders tend to expect you to do your homework first, which by the way is not an unfair expectation.

So you'll have to find a group that is willing to teach you and give you the chance to fail a few times and then you will have to hit certain targets because there is a DPS requirement because of the timer.

Really, it's very different from getting ported through a JP. And some of this may not be literal accessibility issues but they are definitely prohibitive for a lot of people.

If course their are things which stop people from wanting to raid. And less people raid then do open world agree. But to me they seem equally inaccessible. The difference is that it takes less effort to circumvent one then the other.

Don't you agree that if you are in favor of locking one trinket to specific content its more consistent to be in favor for the otelher one?

Well I think that the difference in effort is quite big and that it's not just about effort because, in spite of what people like to think, not everybody can do everything just by putting in effort. That's a fairy tale. Raiding is a hardcore activity even when people call it simple and is not within reach for many people. People who think anybody can learn to raid properly underestimate their own capabilities and overestimate people in general. But that's another topic.

We'll I was also talking about the effort to circumvent the action nessecary. It's using portals for jumping puzzles for example.

I myself am horrible at jp and understand that not everyone is capable of the same thing.

I'm not sure how to interpret your question so I'll just say where I stand on it. In 2011 there were numbers about solo players in multi-player games and it was about 19% of the total population back then. I think it's fair to state that solo players have become more of a thing since then and so I feel I can safely state that solo play is an important chunk of the population. Here's a video where a game designer discusses the topic of solo players if you're interested. It's from 2011 but the video is over 50 minutes. It does however answer the question quite well about why people play solo

What this means is that whenever you create content or rewards that are aimed at group play, there will be a significant group of people that it will not reach. Of course on the other side there has to be a fair reward for those who do engage in this content. The simple answer is to give rewards to different player groups. That means that some legendary gear is aimed at raiders. Well, we have that. Some of it is aimed at PvP'ers. And we have that as well. What we do not have though is legendary stuff that is aimed at players who do not participate in group content or rarely, be it raids/fractals or pvp/wvw.

So from my point of view I do not say that the same exact rewards should be offered to each group, however, I do think it there should be something for those who do not engage in group content regularly since they are in fact a significant group. Incidentally I do not include open world events and world bosses as group content in that, but group content where you have to work as a team and so aside from a couple of exceptions world bosses and events do not apply cause everybody can just jump in and do their thing. This is actually ideal for solo players but ok.

One of the reasons I do not have any legendary weapons is because they require the gift of battle and war which require to do sPvP and WvW and a fair bit of it. I do not have legendary armor because it requires the same or raiding. I do not do any of this in this game (I was very involved in raiding in SWTOR but haven't found it interesting here). Considering that you can save up and buy your legendary weapons from the TP, it also is not really representative of your effort cause it could've been bought.

I will admit I'm not entirely sure what exactly is involved in these legendary trinkets but I assume again that it requires some form of group content at least and so I'm out. For me that's a choice for others not so much. However, if there were legendaries that were based on open world activities rather than group content, then I might find myself interested in going for those.

So clearly they shouldn't be the same skins as to not devaluate the existing legendary gear but I can see the point of having such things in GW2. Whether or not ArenaNet are interested in doing that I do not know but it could appeal to solo players and PvE players in general.

I mean I have more ideas about how to approach this but I think that where in the past the distinction was made between pvp and pve (which assumed raiding to be included), I think that nowadays there are 3 main groups to consider: pvp, pve and solo. I think all 3 groups are important. In SWTOR for example, one of the mistakes they've made is to focus on one of them at the cost of others and it's cost them players in the end. Now I do realise there are also players who like two or even all 3 activities but generally even they have a favorite and if not the 3 activities still exist and need updates.

Think of it this way. Let's say that in GW2 we get an expansion next year and it focuses on pvp and grouped pve and open world get virtually nothing. Then those last two groups are going to lose players. However, this will happen no matter which group you focus on at the cost of the others. I hear a lot of talk that in GW2 sPvP is dead and I get conflicting messages with regards to WvW on that matter but the complains are generally about lack of balance and new content. So yeah, you lose players when that doesn't get attention for a while.

Same goes for structured group content in PvE and open world/story content which is largely the area of solo players. If too little is done over a certain period of time you lose players there. So expansions are best when they address all the activities rather than focus on one. Not necessarily in equal amounts because not all content is consumed equally but enough so that all player groups feel like they've been taken seriously. And of course there will always be complaints no matter what you do, so the presence of complaints is not a measurement of failure in that though if enough different players complain (not the same 5 people regurgitating their complaints ad infinitum) it could be an indicator of course.

So do we need legendary gear that can be obtained without participating in structured group content? Well need is a big word so I can't answer that, but I do think it would be a good addition that a lot of people could get behind.

Hopefully that tells you where I stand on this and with a bit of luck that also answered your question :)

I agree that their should be legendary for everyone (Aurora is an lw legendary so maybe that's to you're taste)

My point was that it's as bad thing to lock a ring behind raids as it is to lock an accessory behind jp etc.

People might not be able to do it yet they might find a way to get to the goal.

On a tangent, I wonder how many people have done done the chalice of tears without being ported in comparison to those who raided for coalescence.

Ahh I understand your point better now. Well to be fair, I got close myself to completing chalice of tears but it was near the end that I just kept missing stuff cause my hands were shaking basically. I spent 2 days trying to do that puzzle and at some point I just gave up.

Of course the difference is that when it comes to getting help to do a jump puzzle it's quite easy. To get help to finish a number of raids is quite another thing. The difference for me is this: Some stuff is locked behind raids so many people don't have it. Probably a vast majority of players don't have it. If it was locked behind this JP, everybody would have it because it's easy to get someone to take you there.

That means that in reality locking something behind JPs is not prohibitive because there is an easy way around it. Raids, not so much.

We'll on efficiency the amount of people who have done the last collection of Aurora is less then 10 percent. Not very close to everyone. Of course this is 3 times the amount that has the ring collection. But that one is not out yet so I don't know how many will have it in the end.

My mayor gripe with the situation is that if porting was not allowed their would still be less backlash even though it might be harder.

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Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

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@yann.1946 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

But this is sort off false tho. The chalice of tears is much more inaccessible then most raidbosses are.The mesmers portal long you are as much a way to bypass the system as buying a raid are. (in the sense that you're not actually doing the content.)

You really want to compare accessibility to a somewhat more "complex" JP - which even has checkpoints! - with accessiblity to raid-content? Sure, you have your easy encounters like Escort and W4B123, but still, the comparison is totally off. x'D

Yes because the responsibility is much higher. The only reason I could do chalice is because I have friends who like jp and have mesmers. While you don't need to know anyone within the raid community to start raiding.

Not saying their are no issues. But to me someone saying locking Aurora behind lw is great while locking coalescence is the worst thing ever seems hypocritical at best.

There are a couple of JP's I couldn't manage because of my fear of heights. I don't have any friends in game because I play it solo and stay away from guilds. My choice. However, that means I have no friends to do the JPs for me either. And yet I have them done.

And that's why you're incorrect about needing a friend for JP's. In GW2 there are people out there that actually offer runs to do things like that and I've also asked for help with HP's in HoT and surprise surprise, I got help from people that I didn't know at all.

So your argument that you need to have a friend to do that for you is simply not true.

We'll yes but their are also people who do this for raids. But they don't count because?

My point was that the accessibility is not that different.

Well getting in a group for a raid is different in accessibility. Maybe not literal accessibility but to do a raid there are requirements. This comes with the territory of enrage timers. Jump Puzzles don't have those. So to do raid content and succeed everybody needs to play their part and do enough DPS or fill specific support/tanky roles.

So that's also part of accessibility. Having someone port you to the end of a JP only requires you to step into the portals, which anyone can do. For raids there's a lot more involved and so that works prohibitive. Also you need to find a raid group that wants to take you in. Being inexperienced or generally poor at such content because you don't really get these stats and traits and rotations etc. does limit things, because raiders tend to expect you to do your homework first, which by the way is not an unfair expectation.

So you'll have to find a group that is willing to teach you and give you the chance to fail a few times and then you will have to hit certain targets because there is a DPS requirement because of the timer.

Really, it's very different from getting ported through a JP. And some of this may not be literal accessibility issues but they are definitely prohibitive for a lot of people.

If course their are things which stop people from wanting to raid. And less people raid then do open world agree. But to me they seem equally inaccessible. The difference is that it takes less effort to circumvent one then the other.

Don't you agree that if you are in favor of locking one trinket to specific content its more consistent to be in favor for the otelher one?

Well I think that the difference in effort is quite big and that it's not just about effort because, in spite of what people like to think, not everybody can do everything just by putting in effort. That's a fairy tale. Raiding is a hardcore activity even when people call it simple and is not within reach for many people. People who think anybody can learn to raid properly underestimate their own capabilities and overestimate people in general. But that's another topic.

We'll I was also talking about the effort to circumvent the action nessecary. It's using portals for jumping puzzles for example.

I myself am horrible at jp and understand that not everyone is capable of the same thing.

I'm not sure how to interpret your question so I'll just say where I stand on it. In 2011 there were numbers about solo players in multi-player games and it was about 19% of the total population back then. I think it's fair to state that solo players have become more of a thing since then and so I feel I can safely state that solo play is an important chunk of the population. Here's a video where a game designer discusses the topic of solo players if you're interested. It's from 2011 but the video is over 50 minutes. It does however answer the question quite well about why people play solo

What this means is that whenever you create content or rewards that are aimed at group play, there will be a significant group of people that it will not reach. Of course on the other side there has to be a fair reward for those who do engage in this content. The simple answer is to give rewards to different player groups. That means that some legendary gear is aimed at raiders. Well, we have that. Some of it is aimed at PvP'ers. And we have that as well. What we do not have though is legendary stuff that is aimed at players who do not participate in group content or rarely, be it raids/fractals or pvp/wvw.

So from my point of view I do not say that the same exact rewards should be offered to each group, however, I do think it there should be something for those who do not engage in group content regularly since they are in fact a significant group. Incidentally I do not include open world events and world bosses as group content in that, but group content where you have to work as a team and so aside from a couple of exceptions world bosses and events do not apply cause everybody can just jump in and do their thing. This is actually ideal for solo players but ok.

One of the reasons I do not have any legendary weapons is because they require the gift of battle and war which require to do sPvP and WvW and a fair bit of it. I do not have legendary armor because it requires the same or raiding. I do not do any of this in this game (I was very involved in raiding in SWTOR but haven't found it interesting here). Considering that you can save up and buy your legendary weapons from the TP, it also is not really representative of your effort cause it could've been bought.

I will admit I'm not entirely sure what exactly is involved in these legendary trinkets but I assume again that it requires some form of group content at least and so I'm out. For me that's a choice for others not so much. However, if there were legendaries that were based on open world activities rather than group content, then I might find myself interested in going for those.

So clearly they shouldn't be the same skins as to not devaluate the existing legendary gear but I can see the point of having such things in GW2. Whether or not ArenaNet are interested in doing that I do not know but it could appeal to solo players and PvE players in general.

I mean I have more ideas about how to approach this but I think that where in the past the distinction was made between pvp and pve (which assumed raiding to be included), I think that nowadays there are 3 main groups to consider: pvp, pve and solo. I think all 3 groups are important. In SWTOR for example, one of the mistakes they've made is to focus on one of them at the cost of others and it's cost them players in the end. Now I do realise there are also players who like two or even all 3 activities but generally even they have a favorite and if not the 3 activities still exist and need updates.

Think of it this way. Let's say that in GW2 we get an expansion next year and it focuses on pvp and grouped pve and open world get virtually nothing. Then those last two groups are going to lose players. However, this will happen no matter which group you focus on at the cost of the others. I hear a lot of talk that in GW2 sPvP is dead and I get conflicting messages with regards to WvW on that matter but the complains are generally about lack of balance and new content. So yeah, you lose players when that doesn't get attention for a while.

Same goes for structured group content in PvE and open world/story content which is largely the area of solo players. If too little is done over a certain period of time you lose players there. So expansions are best when they address all the activities rather than focus on one. Not necessarily in equal amounts because not all content is consumed equally but enough so that all player groups feel like they've been taken seriously. And of course there will always be complaints no matter what you do, so the presence of complaints is not a measurement of failure in that though if enough different players complain (not the same 5 people regurgitating their complaints ad infinitum) it could be an indicator of course.

So do we need legendary gear that can be obtained without participating in structured group content? Well need is a big word so I can't answer that, but I do think it would be a good addition that a lot of people could get behind.

Hopefully that tells you where I stand on this and with a bit of luck that also answered your question :)

I agree that their should be legendary for everyone (Aurora is an lw legendary so maybe that's to you're taste)

My point was that it's as bad thing to lock a ring behind raids as it is to lock an accessory behind jp etc.

People might not be able to do it yet they might find a way to get to the goal.

On a tangent, I wonder how many people have done done the chalice of tears without being ported in comparison to those who raided for coalescence.

Ahh I understand your point better now. Well to be fair, I got close myself to completing chalice of tears but it was near the end that I just kept missing stuff cause my hands were shaking basically. I spent 2 days trying to do that puzzle and at some point I just gave up.

Of course the difference is that when it comes to getting help to do a jump puzzle it's quite easy. To get help to finish a number of raids is quite another thing. The difference for me is this: Some stuff is locked behind raids so many people don't have it. Probably a vast majority of players don't have it. If it was locked behind this JP, everybody would have it because it's easy to get someone to take you there.

That means that in reality locking something behind JPs is not prohibitive because there is an easy way around it. Raids, not so much.

We'll on efficiency the amount of people who have done the last collection of Aurora is less then 10 percent. Not very close to everyone. Of course this is 3 times the amount that has the ring collection. But that one is not out yet so I don't know how many will have it in the end.

My mayor gripe with the situation is that if porting was not allowed their would still be less backlash even though it might be harder.

Well clearly there is a lot more to it than just a JP. I mean, to be honest I just barely found out there even existed legendary trinkets. The mystic tribute for example that you need for it is just very cost prohibitive for a lot of people. But at least it's something you can do without doing raids or pvp in that respect. But yeah if it was just a JP then everyone would get it but of course there is a lot more to it than that.

I think that a general issue with legendary items is that it's really just for people who are very dedicated to farming and/or have a lot of time on their hands. And that's why I personally don't really care too much. I do care about cosmetics so if it's a weapon or armor set that actually looks cool, then I might get myself to go through the effort. But if the output doesn't represent the input, then I think a lot of people aren't going to bother and they don't.

And that's ok too. I'm not saying we must have legendaries, but if they looked cool as I stated I might get interested. It's not like I'm going to get upset if they don't do it. So far none of the legendary gear that exists to date makes me go "ooh, I want that". And that's not a bad position to be in :)

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Raizel.8175

Raizel.8175

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@yann.1946 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

But this is sort off false tho. The chalice of tears is much more inaccessible then most raidbosses are.The mesmers portal long you are as much a way to bypass the system as buying a raid are. (in the sense that you're not actually doing the content.)

You really want to compare accessibility to a somewhat more "complex" JP - which even has checkpoints! - with accessiblity to raid-content? Sure, you have your easy encounters like Escort and W4B123, but still, the comparison is totally off. x'D

Yes because the responsibility is much higher. The only reason I could do chalice is because I have friends who like jp and have mesmers. While you don't need to know anyone within the raid community to start raiding.

Not saying their are no issues. But to me someone saying locking Aurora behind lw is great while locking coalescence is the worst thing ever seems hypocritical at best.

There are a couple of JP's I couldn't manage because of my fear of heights. I don't have any friends in game because I play it solo and stay away from guilds. My choice. However, that means I have no friends to do the JPs for me either. And yet I have them done.

And that's why you're incorrect about needing a friend for JP's. In GW2 there are people out there that actually offer runs to do things like that and I've also asked for help with HP's in HoT and surprise surprise, I got help from people that I didn't know at all.

So your argument that you need to have a friend to do that for you is simply not true.

We'll yes but their are also people who do this for raids. But they don't count because?

My point was that the accessibility is not that different.

Ok.

By your argumentation, with what encounter should we compare JPs? Since raids feature difficulty-diversity, we probably have to compare accessiblity of a certain JP with the accessibility to a certain raid-boss. I started GW2 playing a Sylvari. Morgan's Spiral was my first JP. There are easier JPs, so let us put Morgan's Spiral on the same level as - let's say - VG. I still see a lot of PUGs failig to VG and people are mostly asking for 100+ LI, so not really that accessible. Your comparison is already off. There are easier JPs, stuff like Urmaug's Secret in LA. Let's compare that to Escort. Pretty easy - ok, you get into that. Still, your comparison is off, since - by your standards - we also probably have to compare stuff like Chalice of Tears or the Aetherblade JP with raid-bosses like Dhuum. Accessibility to Dhuum basically converges towards zero.

Do you see now that your comparison hinges quite heavily?

@flog.3485 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

No offense here, but I think the biggest problem is that you assume that everything has be to accessible in a pug scenario in a quick way. Kind of like how, the legendary items that are awarded through raids shouldn’t be considered as long term progression.

Your example of accessibility’s doesn’t make much sense imo. In terms of gear and stats, yes it is true that accessibility in this game is king whether you decide to play open world or SPvP or WvW, because each of these examples allow a player to gear up in ascended.

However, when it comes to cosmetic....There is just no way to make everything accessible to anyone with the lowest interest possible.

What? I don't really understand you. Raids are quite inaccessible due to them being designed as niche-content. They're inaccessible since the difficulty-step from mostly braindead open-world- and story-content to raids is too high, especially since people don't really learn anything in open world and story. That's why we sadly have this darwinistic hierarchy. Raids are also fairly inaccessible because most content in this game is unsocial since it's too easy/single-player-focused that any meaningful social interaction isn't necessary. Even in raids, you barely have any social interaction anyway. That's why - yes - ArenaNet has to make stuff accessible to PUGs and you can also see that ArenaNet is somewhat balancing the game with PUGs in mind. They went in that direction and can't turn back now.

Everything you wrote is exactly why I think the game shouldn’t head in that direction.

I think it is bad to bring instanced content of high-end PvE closer to the difficulty of open world and story mode because as a player who mostly do story and easy PvE, I am certainly not looking forward to playing instanced content of higher PvE the same way I can play open world and story. If you do so you kill PvE the same way they killed dungeons in terms of difficulty. There should be a limit to how easy the content gets over time and offering reworks and balance patch that makes it easier is good enough for that.

The thing is, no matter how puggable the content is, it will always be restrictive. You can’t reproduce the easy going nature of open world PvE into instanced challenging content. And using the shortcomings of raids as a scapegoat to not embrace the idea that the PoF raid wings should award a legendary ring is a dangerous argument to offer. that makes the game very stale imo; knowing that anyway, you are arguing about a ring that is nobody has crafted yet while also not acknowledging that obtaining a ring with stat-swaps can already be done in bloodstone fen.

The game wasn't made for sophisticated PvE to begin with - the combat system is far too shallow to ever do that anyway. Why do you think most raid-encounters rely on gimmicky stuff or certain classes/class-skills (which is also a reason for lacking accessibility)? Because you can't have any meaningful depth in PvE with the framework the core-game offers. The game was clearly targetted at the ultra-"casual" crowd anyway. In that regard, the content needs to be PUG-able to not be completely out of tune with the basic game philosophy and the basic game itself. You can't justify having a game-mode which offers several desirable cosmetics, a lot of lore and major rewards like legendary items which only a vanishingly small audience has access to.

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Chasind.3128

Chasind.3128

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It lacks any solid WvW system or PvP. It lacks anything meant for non-casual players.Everything in Gw2 feels shifted for Raids & Fractals. Even WvW/PvP.
There isn't a real pvp/ wvw community anymore. Atleast one I'd call good. It feels drawn out, tired & fed-up.WvW is already dwindling, it's hard to find fights & all of the Major WvW guilds are disbanding because there is nothing new or good to update WvW & the upcoming alliance system is causing this.

PvP just lacks balance. Elementalist is in a terrible place in regards to pvp, Warrior is OP, Mesmer will never be nerfed, Engineer could be betterAnet needs to stop picking a favorite & actually have someone who knows how to play these classes & play them well to help them balance the classes.

Gw2 feels like a very casual game, so with casual games you'd expect a vast RP community or something more in regards to RPers. Like custom Housing, RP Servers, Marriage??? Actual in depth-story for your character and GW2 is lacking in all of those aspects except for those who make up their own backstory.There are alot of character customization options but not enough/ not the right direction. GW2 has really lost its aesthetic/ identity with all of the silly & clownish cosmetics, some even invading makeover kits & actualy character customization. Will we ever see a reapproach to a european steam-punk/ colonian-esque theme? And I'm not talking about shifting to PoF, the elonian vabbian african themes make sense. I'm talking about the rainbow unicorns, anime hair, badly created outfits obviously made for a quick sell with terrible flame animations.
The last time I felt GW2 had an identity was before the release of HoT, actually when Rox & Braham were 1st introduced before scarlet destroyed everything. Since that time, there has been a shift in the identity of the game & it just seems like noone can make up their mind.All of the faces aren't editable enough, you can't make yourself look entirely different from another player. There is only 1 body type basically, and no; I'm not talking about body shaming. I'd like a more muscular frame for human females & Norn. Slimmer frames for Norn men & Charr. More muscular option for charr as well. Longer hairstyles & more race based choices strictly for them.

New dungeons? Why not release a new dungeon, atleast 1 per new area? Not everyone cares about raids. All time & recources of GW2 feels like it has only been put into glider/mount skins & Raids.Make dungeons have relevant gear with new updates. Have them updated with ascended Gear too (instead of paying 350 tokens for exotic, it's 1200 for an ascended etc)

New Race? A new playable race maybe. Tengu.

Maps need some sort of revamp/reason to go back to, & not just doing some boring Collection. Give us reasons to go back to older maps that are good reasons, not just for some boss train meta or salty legendary collection.

It's okay anet, to add a little lore to everything you do in this game I would actually LOVE it if there was actual lore put behind legendaries/ ascended crafting/ and more put into your personal advancement and character.Why is it that the current story is about everyone else still? Yes, the female human meta is bland & boring but that doesn't mean the story needs to be.
MORE lore everywhere. Add romance options for your character?

Add relevant Rewards for your character. Just hit lvl 80? Here is an account bound box of an Ascended item of your choice! Wow, so you mean it's not just blues & greens for once? Thanks!

Guild Wars 2 feels like an MMO that is only dependent upon Raids & the Gem store for real content. The story is okay at times. Dungeons are obsolete unless you're bored. There really is no reason to do dungeons anymore thanks to diminishing returns. WvW feels abandoned because of the lack of content for it. Open World is lacking. There is no reason to return to maps once you're done with it. The only truly engaging content in GW2 are the Raids/ Fractals/ Gem Store which feels like the only thing that matters.

I know my suggestions are all over the place.

I will say this; Arenanet has one of the best support teams I've seen. Yes, it takes time for you guys to get back to us players but it's because you get swamped with false reports & you investigate them all. I've always had a pleasant experience in dealing with the support team of arenanet.

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Tails.9372

Tails.9372

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Pvp:

  • balance, balance, balance.That's not the main problem sPvP suffers from, it's just what the competitive scene usually cares about the most (or is at least the most vocal about). What sPvP lacks the most is approachability. The environment is extremely hostile towards potential new players and I'm not talking about the other players here. Players can't just open a new room and invite their friends for a quick PvP match, you have to buy an item for 200 gold first and the stupid thing isn't even permanent. That alone kills it for many players but there's more. Even if the gold fee wasn't a thing sPvP still lacks many basic tings like a DM or a TDM mode. sPvP has potential but it's not engaging and that's the main problem here.
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wickedkae.4980

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This game's end game is terrible. I have picked ESO lately and you can build your character LONG after you reach max level. It is awesome. In GW2, all we do now is grind for legendarys. I want my character to actually grow in a meaningful way when I play the game. One of the main reasons no one sticks around is because there is no reason to do anything in this game. Once you have ascended gear, you have beat the game. They do not respect veteran players and provide us with little to no meaningful content. It is why ESO gets my money now and GW2 does not.

Also, why can I not have a say in the story? Stop making my character a goody 2 shoes. I Want to be evil or at least create conflict. It is so boring being good all the time. Let me join the enemies.

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flog.3485

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@Raizel.8175 said:

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

But this is sort off false tho. The chalice of tears is much more inaccessible then most raidbosses are.The mesmers portal long you are as much a way to bypass the system as buying a raid are. (in the sense that you're not actually doing the content.)

You really want to compare accessibility to a somewhat more "complex" JP - which even has checkpoints! - with accessiblity to raid-content? Sure, you have your easy encounters like Escort and W4B123, but still, the comparison is totally off. x'D

Yes because the responsibility is much higher. The only reason I could do chalice is because I have friends who like jp and have mesmers. While you don't need to know anyone within the raid community to start raiding.

Not saying their are no issues. But to me someone saying locking Aurora behind lw is great while locking coalescence is the worst thing ever seems hypocritical at best.

There are a couple of JP's I couldn't manage because of my fear of heights. I don't have any friends in game because I play it solo and stay away from guilds. My choice. However, that means I have no friends to do the JPs for me either. And yet I have them done.

And that's why you're incorrect about needing a friend for JP's. In GW2 there are people out there that actually offer runs to do things like that and I've also asked for help with HP's in HoT and surprise surprise, I got help from people that I didn't know at all.

So your argument that you need to have a friend to do that for you is simply not true.

We'll yes but their are also people who do this for raids. But they don't count because?

My point was that the accessibility is not that different.

Ok.

By your argumentation, with what encounter should we compare JPs? Since raids feature difficulty-diversity, we probably have to compare accessiblity of a certain JP with the accessibility to a certain raid-boss. I started GW2 playing a Sylvari. Morgan's Spiral was my first JP. There are easier JPs, so let us put Morgan's Spiral on the same level as - let's say - VG. I still see a lot of PUGs failig to VG and people are mostly asking for 100+ LI, so not really that accessible. Your comparison is already off. There are easier JPs, stuff like Urmaug's Secret in LA. Let's compare that to Escort. Pretty easy - ok, you get into that. Still, your comparison is off, since - by your standards - we also probably have to compare stuff like Chalice of Tears or the Aetherblade JP with raid-bosses like Dhuum. Accessibility to Dhuum basically converges towards zero.

Do you see now that your comparison hinges quite heavily?

@yann.1946 said:I do wonder why locking coalescence is bad but Aurora isn't.

Accessibility. Aurora is basically accessible to everyone who has the LW-episodes unlocked and you can do a lot of stuff solo; raid on the other hand are quite inaccessible due to basic game design flaws. You can be happy nowadays if you can access W5B123, Dhuum is almost impossible though due to the abuse of the KP-system - the entry-requirements reached a grotesque dimension long ago (the same applies to fractal CMs too). The same will also undoubtly happen to W6. The darwinistic LI/LD/KP-hierarchy the GW2 raiding community suffers from is quite unhealthy for a MMORPG anyway. I don't see any reason to lock any more legendary items behind content which is as inaccessible as raids - doing that is quite unwise anyway since raids are purposefully created as niche-content anyway.

No offense here, but I think the biggest problem is that you assume that everything has be to accessible in a pug scenario in a quick way. Kind of like how, the legendary items that are awarded through raids shouldn’t be considered as long term progression.

Your example of accessibility’s doesn’t make much sense imo. In terms of gear and stats, yes it is true that accessibility in this game is king whether you decide to play open world or SPvP or WvW, because each of these examples allow a player to gear up in ascended.

However, when it comes to cosmetic....There is just no way to make everything accessible to anyone with the lowest interest possible.

What? I don't really understand you. Raids are quite inaccessible due to them being designed as niche-content. They're inaccessible since the difficulty-step from mostly braindead open-world- and story-content to raids is too high, especially since people don't really learn anything in open world and story. That's why we sadly have this darwinistic hierarchy. Raids are also fairly inaccessible because most content in this game is unsocial since it's too easy/single-player-focused that any meaningful social interaction isn't necessary. Even in raids, you barely have any social interaction anyway. That's why - yes - ArenaNet has to make stuff accessible to PUGs and you can also see that ArenaNet is somewhat balancing the game with PUGs in mind. They went in that direction and can't turn back now.

Everything you wrote is exactly why I think the game shouldn’t head in that direction.

I think it is bad to bring instanced content of high-end PvE closer to the difficulty of open world and story mode because as a player who mostly do story and easy PvE, I am certainly not looking forward to playing instanced content of higher PvE the same way I can play open world and story. If you do so you kill PvE the same way they killed dungeons in terms of difficulty. There should be a limit to how easy the content gets over time and offering reworks and balance patch that makes it easier is good enough for that.

The thing is, no matter how puggable the content is, it will always be restrictive. You can’t reproduce the easy going nature of open world PvE into instanced challenging content. And using the shortcomings of raids as a scapegoat to not embrace the idea that the PoF raid wings should award a legendary ring is a dangerous argument to offer. that makes the game very stale imo; knowing that anyway, you are arguing about a ring that is nobody has crafted yet while also not acknowledging that obtaining a ring with stat-swaps can already be done in bloodstone fen.

The game wasn't made for sophisticated PvE to begin with - the combat system is far too shallow to ever do that anyway. Why do you think most raid-encounters rely on gimmicky stuff or certain classes/class-skills (which is also a reason for lacking accessibility)? Because you can't have any meaningful depth in PvE with the framework the core-game offers. The game was clearly targetted at the ultra-"casual" crowd anyway. In that regard, the content needs to be PUG-able to not be completely out of tune with the basic game philosophy and the basic game itself. You can't justify having a game-mode which offers several desirable cosmetics, a lot of lore and major rewards like legendary items which only a vanishingly small audience has access to.

Well that is where I will disagree. Not being sophisticated enough according to you, doesn’t mean that there is no depth to it.Hence the complaint about easy mode raids, about living story being too hard to some people.

If cosmetics is the true end game goal of GW2, you can not have every single items available through an easy way, regardless of their interest, commitment and personal skill level.You gotta have a reasonable balance. If you are referring to the players who spend their entire time participating in rewarding meta events where I would assume that it would be very easy to just spam the entire skill bar off cooldown just because we don’t have to manage energy (except for revenant maybe), no offense, but I don’t think these type of players are really the target of raids or higher difficulty instanced content. If playing the game in this way was sustainable, then LS 1 model would still be available.

We can’t just go back to the general core Gw2 difficulty when most of dungeons were easily trivialized, open world was even easier than open world of expansion with a low amount of people participating if fractals due to its nature of gear treadmill infusion grind.

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