Deadeye needs to be nerfed.

[Tiah.3091]

@"Airdive.2613" said:Actually, it's evident from your video that you'd just failed to activate your signet that is stun break + instant condition transfer, so it's a basic awareness issue.

Normally, before one presses stunbreak, they consider "is this stun dangerous"? That takes time. A stutter. I mean, explicitly the "decision time - should I break, or wait?". Assume it's 0.2-0.5.Well, take that, and add an average human reaction time, around 0.1-0.2 seconds. And a ping, say, around 0.1s.That would be total 0.4-0.8 seconds to break the stun, which you DO NOT EXPECT COMING.

(Obviously, if you EXPECT the stun - in case of fair and clear 1v1 duel, for example - the overall reaction time would be much shorter. Around 0.1 + ping - let's say, 0.2s )

Now, the whole burst from 20k to 0 is happening in 0.92 seconds. Yes, I actually took time and recorded the vid, then checked timings frame by frame.20k DAMAGE IN ZERO POINT NINETY TWO MOTHERFUCKING SECONDS.

Please, OH PLEASE, tell me, how even an ungodly stunbreak (AND 2STRONK CONDI TRANSFER, I'm fucking laughing my arse off right now) in 0.2 seconds (ping + human reaction) for an unexpected stun without tells can save from THAT?!I beg of you, master!!!

---

P.S.Yeah, I noticed what: everytime there's a post begging for DE so well deserved nerfs, here you are, an @Airdrive.2613 dude. "Pls don't nerf me, bro, DE is good"

[Spartacus.3192]

@Tiah.3091 said:

@"Airdive.2613" said:Actually, it's evident from your video that you'd just failed to activate your signet that is stun break + instant condition transfer, so it's a basic awareness issue.

Normally, before one presses stunbreak, they consider

"is this stun dangerous"

? That takes time. A stutter. I mean, explicitly the "decision time - should I break, or wait?". Assume it's 0.2-0.5.Well, take that, and add an average human reaction time, around 0.1-0.2 seconds. And a ping, say, around 0.1s.That would be total 0.4-0.8 seconds to break the stun, which you

DO NOT EXPECT COMING

.

(Obviously, if you EXPECT the stun - in case of fair and clear 1v1 duel, for example - the overall reaction time would be much shorter. Around 0.1 + ping - let's say, 0.2s )

Now, the whole burst from 20k to 0 is happening

in 0.92 seconds

. Yes, I actually took time and recorded the vid, then checked timings frame by frame.

20k DAMAGE IN ZERO POINT NINETY TWO kitten SECONDS.

Please, OH PLEASE, tell me, how even an ungodly stunbreak (AND 2STRONK CONDI TRANSFER, I'm kitten laughing my kitten off right now) in 0.2 seconds (ping + human reaction) for an unexpected stun without tells can save from THAT?!I beg of you, master!!!

---

P.S.Yeah, I noticed what: everytime there's a post begging for DE so well deserved nerfs, here you are, an @Airdrive.2613 dude. "Pls don't nerf me, bro, DE is good"

dang bro....i was trying to point this out earlier but was too lazy to do the calcs like you did.

[Airdive.2613]

@"Tiah.3091" said:

Normally, before one presses stunbreak, they consider "is this stun dangerous"? That takes time. A stutter. I mean, explicitly the "decision time - should I break, or wait?". Assume it's 0.2-0.5.

Your correct natural assumption should be: any stun is dangerous after you just got marked by the deadeye, and the mark's tell is obvious. Yup, that's right, you've just been marked for death.

Well, take that, and add an average human reaction time, around 0.1-0.2 seconds. And a ping, say, around 0.1s.That would be total 0.4-0.8 seconds to break the stun, which you DO NOT EXPECT COMING.

Your natural assumption should be: the enemy wants to win, hence will always try to take you by surprise. Therefore you always keep rotating the camera to broaden your view and don't keep your finger off the "oh kitten" button. You always expect the stun or you got simply outplayed.

Now, the whole burst from 20k to 0 is happening in 0.92 seconds. Yes, I actually took time and recorded the vid, then checked timings frame by frame.20k DAMAGE IN ZERO POINT NINETY TWO kitten SECONDS.

Welp, the deadeye is clearly glassy and so are you (probably 0 toughness and clearly at 0 lifeforce). It happens when you're not prepared to fight the deadeye.Then again, despite the quick burst, you decapped and the thief spent all they had to burst you. It's only a slight loss for your team.

Please, OH PLEASE, tell me, how even an ungodly stunbreak (AND 2STRONK CONDI TRANSFER, I'm kitten laughing my kitten off right now) in 0.2 seconds (ping + human reaction) for an unexpected stun without tells can save from THAT?!I beg of you, master!!!

Break stun -> transfer immobilization to the deadeye -> dodge the shots naturally -> your teammate comes -> the deadeye is either defeated or forced to retreat.

P.S.Yeah, I noticed what: everytime there's a post begging for DE so well deserved nerfs, here you are, an @Airdrive.2613 dude. "Pls don't nerf me, bro, DE is good"

This is because I genuinely have no particular trouble dealing with them.Thieves are frustrating to play against by design, but they're not stronger than other professions in terms of strategy in conquest game mode.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@Airdive.2613 said:

@"Tiah.3091" said:

Normally, before one presses stunbreak, they consider

"is this stun dangerous"

? That takes time. A stutter. I mean, explicitly the "decision time - should I break, or wait?". Assume it's 0.2-0.5.

Your correct natural assumption should be: any stun is dangerous after you just got marked by the deadeye, and the mark's tell is obvious. Yup, that's right, you've just been marked for death.

Well, take that, and add an average human reaction time, around 0.1-0.2 seconds. And a ping, say, around 0.1s.That would be total 0.4-0.8 seconds to break the stun, which you

DO NOT EXPECT COMING

.

Your natural assumption should be: the enemy wants to win, hence will always try to take you by surprise. Therefore you always keep rotating the camera to broaden your view and don't keep your finger off the "oh kitten" button. You always expect the stun or you got simply outplayed.

Now, the whole burst from 20k to 0 is happening

in 0.92 seconds

. Yes, I actually took time and recorded the vid, then checked timings frame by frame.

20k DAMAGE IN ZERO POINT NINETY TWO kitten SECONDS.

Welp, the deadeye is clearly glassy and so are you (probably 0 toughness and clearly at 0 lifeforce). It happens when you're not prepared to fight the deadeye.Then again, despite the quick burst, you decapped and the thief spent all they had to burst you. It's only a slight loss for your team.

Please, OH PLEASE, tell me, how even an ungodly stunbreak (AND 2STRONK CONDI TRANSFER, I'm kitten laughing my kitten off right now) in 0.2 seconds (ping + human reaction) for an unexpected stun without tells can save from THAT?!I beg of you, master!!!

Break stun -> transfer immobilization to the deadeye -> dodge the shots naturally -> your teammate comes -> the deadeye is either defeated or forced to retreat.

P.S.Yeah, I noticed what: everytime there's a post begging for DE so well deserved nerfs, here you are, an @Airdrive.2613 dude. "Pls don't nerf me, bro, DE is good"

This is because I genuinely have no particular trouble dealing with them.Thieves are frustrating to play against by design, but they're not stronger than other professions in terms of strategy in conquest game mode.

Perma stealth means you never know when it's coming, there is no counter play to that mechanic with DE

That's with a demo ammy on, so 2.5k armor 21k hp

[Tiah.3091]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:That's with a demo ammy on, so 2.5k armor 21k hp

I'd say, at this point it's rather pointless to provide any empirical evidence of DE being broken.

@"Airdive.2613" said:This is because I genuinely have no particular trouble dealing with them.Thieves are frustrating to play against by design, but they're not stronger than other professions in terms of strategy in conquest game mode.

I genuinely don't have problems with them either. Because I run Mirage Mesmer and naturally dodge like crazy, as soon as I receive any disable. I usually run with "Reflective Mirror" - a master trait from Duelling, which gives 2s "Reflect projectiles" after a successful dodge (1.5s icd).And then deadeye kills himself through perma-reflect.

Is this sample representative to the player base? No. Even mesmers - most of them take Blinding Dissipation, which blinds on shatters. Reflect is quite rare mechanics overall. Reveal - even more rare.I'm not sure why you don't want to admit, that an absolute majority of people suffers from DE and can't provide any counterplay to them.

[Airdive.2613]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

Perma stealth means you never know when it's coming, there is no counter play to that mechanic with DE

Perma stealth means it's always coming. Stay on your toes or stay dead.Learn to account for every possibility and plan ahead once a PvP match has started.

That's with a demo ammy on, so 2.5k armor 21k hp

Still sorta almost glass, it seems (the only defense it provides is a bit of toughness). And the deadeye must be berserker-level of glass, too, so is basically a free kill once you manage to dodge their burst.

[Airdive.2613]

@Tiah.3091 said:

I'm not sure why you don't want to admit, that an absolute majority of people suffers from DE and can't provide any counterplay to them.

The absolute majority of people is also unable to understand the concept of break bars in PvE.I don't want to admit we need to nerf deadeye just because people are unwilling to learn to play. (I do imply build adjustments are learning to play.) Deadeye is fairly strong, but not broken. People's binary thinking just makes them call OP after dying to a single well-executed combo, even if they farm said deadeye for the rest of the game (once the surprise effect wears off).

[Tiah.3091]

@"Airdive.2613" said:People's binary thinking just makes them call OP after dying to a single well-executed combo, even if they farm said deadeye for the rest of the game (once the surprise effect wears off).

Yeah, well, I played DE myself. Created it just to see what's all the fuss about, then kept playing it for a few weeks.

I tell you what: the myth, that "DE has to wear bers amu and be full glass" in order to do enormous amounts of damage is complete bullshit.I ran Marauder with Trickery and SA, a build which is FAR from full glass, with decent sustain, condi cleanse and extremely powerfull team utility in form of stealth res and stealth stomp.

And, SHOCKER, I was still able to do 12-15k death judgements and 10k 3RB (per use).If I didn't want to be killed - I wasn't.

The DE from video is likely a Mara too. Although, much more glassy than my build was, it still has a PLENTY of escape tools.I'm not saying Necro should win against DE. But 20k damage in 0.9 seconds is fucking absurd, however you put it.

Burst like this shouldn't exist in the game. Period. And it's not only about DE - there are other classes who can do this. And it's simply WRONG AND UNFAIR. Whatever class it is - doesn't matter.

---

TLDRGame with oneshots (or even pseudo-oneshots) is ultimatively a shitty game. Period.I'm not sure why some people can't accept this simple truth.

[Airdive.2613]

@Tiah.3091 said:TLDRGame with oneshots (or even pseudo-oneshots) is ultimatively a kitten game. Period.I'm not sure why some people can't accept this simple truth.

Meh. I don't consider it truth at all, so it's up to ANet in the end.

[Lucentfir.7430]

@Airdive.2613 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

I'll just keep posting this lol

Then again, the enemy team lost points: the time it will take for the enemy to recapture leaves them with less points than they would have if they would just hold the node with you alive, and one player from each team was occupied. So you sorta didn't lose anyway. Or rather lost "a little" for facetanking the build that counters you.

Binding shadow has no tell from stealth, the red mist only occurs if the thief is visible. You can use mark right after BS and the mark takes effect before BS goes off so its guaranteed to go through. Mark also steals stab first, so you cant stop it even with stab up. It's a 1hko on everyone without a passive invuln

Pretty hard to dodge a knockdown + immob you can't see coming

Actually, it's evident from your video that you'd just failed to activate your signet that is stun break + instant condition transfer, so it's a basic awareness issue.

You do know Signet's condi transfer requires a target to actually transfer conditions right? It would be a awareness issue if stealth on dodge had a special visual and sound effect when it procs, so you'd actually know when there's a DE around. Even if he just used it to break stun he'd still be immobilized on the spot, unable to dodge. So unless they're running auto targeting (Anyone worth their salt has this turned off), or some how psychic and knows exactly where to click with their cursor as soon as the DE starts attacking, he was dead regardless. With a amulet with some defensive stats to boot.

[Airdive.2613]

@Lucentfir.7430 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

I'll just keep posting this lol

Then again, the enemy team lost points: the time it will take for the enemy to recapture leaves them with less points than they would have if they would just hold the node with you alive, and one player from each team was occupied. So you sorta didn't lose anyway. Or rather lost "a little" for facetanking the build that counters you.

Binding shadow has no tell from stealth, the red mist only occurs if the thief is visible. You can use mark right after BS and the mark takes effect before BS goes off so its guaranteed to go through. Mark also steals stab first, so you cant stop it even with stab up. It's a 1hko on everyone without a passive invuln

Pretty hard to dodge a knockdown + immob you can't see coming

Actually, it's evident from your video that you'd just failed to activate your signet that is stun break + instant condition transfer, so it's a basic awareness issue.

You do know Signet's condi transfer requires a target to actually transfer conditions right? It would be a awareness issue if stealth on dodge had a special visual and sound effect when it procs, so you'd actually know when there's a DE around. Even if he just used it to break stun he'd still be immobilized on the spot, unable to dodge. So unless they're running auto targeting (Anyone worth their salt has this turned off), or some how psychic and knows exactly where to click with their cursor as soon as the DE starts attacking, he was dead regardless. With a amulet with some defensive stats to boot.

You can clearly see the deadeye both visible and targeted in the video.

[dDuff.3860]

I'm okay with deadeye being nerfed as long as:

• Mirage condi application gets nerfed (at least on power builds) + mesmers stop interrupting withdraw (insta cast heal)
• Soulboon's sustain, dodgeness and resilience gets nerfed and damage impact from pets too (gazelle hitting for 8k when ranger LoSing you isn't fun at all)
• Spellbreaker's evasiveness gets nerfed
• Holo's romping aoe auto damage gets nerfed
• etc.etc. you got my point.

In fact, unlike other elite specs deadeye has one playstyle and actually got gutted on its core abilities (steal).

[Daishi.6027]

Malicious back stab is a bit strong.

Rifle has more than enough innate counter play. I even find it fun to fight deadeyes 1v1, however they are a little to slippery, they can escape pretty much for free every time. They either need a hard cap (within a certain amount of time) on how often this can be done OR whiffs need a way to punish that doesn’t rely on hard CC, and accommodates for burst that has travel times.

Alternatively malice being a two way street (so both players can one shot each other) might make the encounter more engaging.

For conquest it’s fine though, you need map ware was and to have a llyer pressure the DE. If you let him free snipe your guys will start dropping like flies. Get your Mesmer, thieves, revs, and guards to hound them.

[Tiah.3091]

"Oneshots are a good thing in MMORPG" (C, @Airdive.2613)

At this point I would advise you, guys, to simply avoid communicating with this lunatic.

[Turk.5460]

@Tiah.3091 said:I ran Marauder with Trickery and SA, a build which is FAR from full glass

What game are you playing, because it's certainly not GW2. Marauder amulet on a Thief is almost the epitome of full glass. The only thing closer to full glass is berserker amulet.

??????

[Airdive.2613]

@"Tiah.3091" said:"Oneshots are a good thing in MMORPG" (C, @Airdive.2613)

At this point I would advise you, guys, to simply avoid communicating with this lunatic.

Oh, come on.

• There are tankier amulets that will allow you to survive bursts more often.
• There absolutely are active ways to prevent so-called oneshots, and even in the case of the video we discuss the reaper was one key press away from complete domination over the deadeye. It was a minor mistake, and the next minute the deadeye gets farmed in turn.

[Lucentfir.7430]

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Lucentfir.7430 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

I'll just keep posting this lol

Then again, the enemy team lost points: the time it will take for the enemy to recapture leaves them with less points than they would have if they would just hold the node with you alive, and one player from each team was occupied. So you sorta didn't lose anyway. Or rather lost "a little" for facetanking the build that counters you.

Binding shadow has no tell from stealth, the red mist only occurs if the thief is visible. You can use mark right after BS and the mark takes effect before BS goes off so its guaranteed to go through. Mark also steals stab first, so you cant stop it even with stab up. It's a 1hko on everyone without a passive invuln

Pretty hard to dodge a knockdown + immob you can't see coming

Actually, it's evident from your video that you'd just failed to activate your signet that is stun break + instant condition transfer, so it's a basic awareness issue.

You do know Signet's condi transfer requires a target to actually transfer conditions right? It would be a awareness issue if stealth on dodge had a special visual and sound effect when it procs, so you'd actually know when there's a DE around. Even if he just used it to break stun he'd still be immobilized on the spot, unable to dodge. So unless they're running auto targeting (Anyone worth their salt has this turned off), or some how psychic and knows exactly where to click with their cursor as soon as the DE starts attacking, he was dead regardless. With a amulet with some defensive stats to boot.

You can clearly see the deadeye both visible and targeted in the video.

All i saw was someone moving to cap a point pre-cast worm for a escape then proceed to lose more than 70% of their health as soon as DE became visible in one second, tried tab targeting to activate Plague Signet but dies before it could pop off. The DE isn't even on the minimap when he's moving to the point. You can say it's a basic awareness problem when there's tells like 'Black Powder' smoke field and sound, but there's nothing to be aware of when stealth on dodge exist without tells, and Binding Shadows continues to be invisible to the target while DE is stealthed.

[Airdive.2613]

@Lucentfir.7430 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Lucentfir.7430 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

I'll just keep posting this lol

Then again, the enemy team lost points: the time it will take for the enemy to recapture leaves them with less points than they would have if they would just hold the node with you alive, and one player from each team was occupied. So you sorta didn't lose anyway. Or rather lost "a little" for facetanking the build that counters you.

Binding shadow has no tell from stealth, the red mist only occurs if the thief is visible. You can use mark right after BS and the mark takes effect before BS goes off so its guaranteed to go through. Mark also steals stab first, so you cant stop it even with stab up. It's a 1hko on everyone without a passive invuln

Pretty hard to dodge a knockdown + immob you can't see coming

Actually, it's evident from your video that you'd just failed to activate your signet that is stun break + instant condition transfer, so it's a basic awareness issue.

You do know Signet's condi transfer requires a target to actually transfer conditions right? It would be a awareness issue if stealth on dodge had a special visual and sound effect when it procs, so you'd actually know when there's a DE around. Even if he just used it to break stun he'd still be immobilized on the spot, unable to dodge. So unless they're running auto targeting (Anyone worth their salt has this turned off), or some how psychic and knows exactly where to click with their cursor as soon as the DE starts attacking, he was dead regardless. With a amulet with some defensive stats to boot.

You can clearly see the deadeye both visible and targeted in the video.

All i saw was someone moving to cap a point pre-cast worm for a escape then proceed to lose more than 70% of their health as soon as DE became visible in one second, tried tab targeting to activate Plague Signet but dies before it could pop off. The DE isn't even on the minimap when he's moving to the point. You can say it's a basic awareness problem when there's tells like 'Black Powder' smoke field and sound, but there's nothing to be aware of when stealth on dodge exist without tells, and Binding Shadows continues to be invisible to the target while DE is stealthed.

• Also coming to the enemy-controlled point alone when the enemy team has the deadeye and the reaper is out of life force.
• The signet has no cast time, according to the wiki, so the minor mistake I'm talking about was the momentary unwillingness to "waste" the signet in order to survive. This fight could go so much differently next time.

[Bazsi.2734]

This whining is even funnier given how in the last 2 months I stopped tryharding DE, and just casually play all 9 classes with more or less viable builds... and I have next to no problems dealing with deadeyes. The average DE is really bad and predictable, I just know where and when they will attack.

So it's either that I'm such a god of pvp(pun intended, I don't even have a top 25 title), that I compete on a level that's impossible for mere mortals, or... you guys are too lazy to learn how to deal with the snipers. Because I don't think I'm anything special, I just played DE enough to know what to expect when I'm playing against it.For example these burst breakdowns... big scary numbers, I just wonder how do you manage to get hit by ALL OF THAT? Even glossing over the fact that berserker amulet numbers are attributed to marauders... you still ate the whole thing! If I can get out of those bursts with my decaying reaction times, how come these titans of youth (who are on average a decade younger than me) cant?

TL;DR - L2P guys. DE is useless on high MMR for a reason.

[Huskyboy.1053]

@sorudo.9054 said:lack l*sting

Let's keep this conversation PG-rated please God is watching thank

[dDuff.3860]

@"Bazsi.2734" said:

TL;DR - L2P guys. DE is useless on high MMR for a reason.Personally, disagree with that.

But whining seems to really misunderstand the root of the issue, which is laziness. Counter is so easy to execute but yet, so hard to understand.

[Miles Smiles.8951]

@Bazsi.2734 said:

TL;DR - L2P guys. DE is useless on high MMR for a reason.I wouldn't say it's useless on high MMR. I'd say it's pretty useless in a team comp scenario.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Tiah.3091 said:

@"Airdive.2613" said:People's binary thinking just makes them call OP after dying to a single well-executed combo, even if they farm said deadeye for the rest of the game (once the surprise effect wears off).

Yeah, well, I played DE myself. Created it just to see what's all the fuss about, then kept playing it for a few weeks.

I tell you what: the myth, that "DE has to wear bers amu and be full glass" in order to do enormous amounts of damage is complete kitten.I ran Marauder with Trickery and SA, a build which is FAR from full glass, with decent sustain, condi cleanse and extremely powerfull team utility in form of stealth res and stealth stomp.

And, SHOCKER, I was still able to do 12-15k death judgements and 10k 3RB (per use).If I didn't want to be killed - I wasn't.

The DE from video is likely a Mara too. Although, much more glassy than my build was, it still has a

PLENTY

of escape tools.I'm not saying Necro should win against DE. But 20k damage in 0.9 seconds is

kitten absurd, however you put it.

Burst like this shouldn't exist in the game. Period. And it's not only about DE - there are other classes who can do this. And it's simply

WRONG AND UNFAIR

. Whatever class it is - doesn't matter.

---

TLDR

Game with oneshots (or even pseudo-oneshots) is ultimatively a kitten game. Period.I'm not sure why some people can't accept this simple truth.

Because what you find fun is different to what others find fun... The simple truth being youre entitled to your opinion as others are to thiers.

Personally I like the kill or get killed style

[Zaig.4152]

Still a broken class. As the numbers continue to dwindle in WvW, you can all relish in your posts about how people are imagining things as you roam your empty maps...

[geist.4126]

@"sephiroth.4217" said:

Personally I like the kill or get killed style

You mean the "Kill and only get killed when sleeping on the keyboard style?

There is no "High risk" in that.