Deadeye needs to be nerfed.

[dDuff.3860]

@geist.4126 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:

Personally I like the kill or get killed style

You mean the "Kill and only get killed when sleeping on the keyboard style?

There is no "High risk" in that.

False, there's actually high risk in using marauder without passive elixir S, endure pain, and any source of protection application unless you steal it from someone with bountiful theft, because guess what — oneshots.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@dDuff.3860 said:

@geist.4126 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:

Personally I like the kill or get killed style

You mean the "Kill and only get killed when sleeping on the keyboard style?

There is no "High risk" in that.

False, there's actually high risk in using marauder without passive elixir S, endure pain, and any source of protection application unless you steal it from someone with bountiful theft, because guess what — oneshots.

False, DE has multiple instant disengages. So long as they have one dodge, good ones will never be caught. Or if they run acro with hard to catch they're simply never caught unless you have a 1500 range skill that can do 12/16k+ damage

[dDuff.3860]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@geist.4126 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:

Personally I like the kill or get killed style

You mean the "Kill and only get killed when sleeping on the keyboard style?

There is no "High risk" in that.

False, there's actually high risk in using marauder without passive elixir S, endure pain, and any source of protection application unless you steal it from someone with bountiful theft, because guess what — oneshots.

False, DE has multiple instant disengages. So long as they have one dodge, good ones will never be caught. Or if they run acro with hard to catch they're simply never caught unless you have a 1500 range skill that can do 12/16k+ damagemultiple instant disengages in shadowstep, i guess, what other instant disengage deadeye has?Also, don't act like an acro deadeye with rifle can be an issue :D

[Mayhem.2637]

@"DotDotWin.4357" said:I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of people who are SICK AND kitten TIRED of having PVP be completely pointless if your team doesn't have a Deadeye and the other team does. They can kill you from half a map away and if you attack them they just dodge roll and go invisible.

I think "Completely pointless" is an overstatement. The fundamental issue is how easy it is to play against those who don't know how to counter it. Plenty of specs are arguably just as strong if not stronger, DE really doesn't have much in the way of bulk.

Now that we can see elite specializations, it should be less of a problem.

[Aurelius.6829]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Aurelius.6829 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Make shots fired from stealth cost double initiative if they are not stealth attacks.

make mark cost initiative?

I think the way to make that work will be making any attack from stealth cost you 2 initiative on top of the skill's initiative cost (or just cost you 2 initiative if it's a mark or DJ).

[Bazsi.2734]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@geist.4126 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:

Personally I like the kill or get killed style

You mean the "Kill and only get killed when sleeping on the keyboard style?

There is no "High risk" in that.

False, there's actually high risk in using marauder without passive elixir S, endure pain, and any source of protection application unless you steal it from someone with bountiful theft, because guess what — oneshots.

False, DE has multiple instant disengages. So long as they have one dodge, good ones will never be caught. Or if they run acro with hard to catch they're simply never caught unless you have a 1500 range skill that can do 12/16k+ damage

Acro+DE, best synergy ever: EVADE IN STEALTH!Also just so the rest of us won't stay so ignorant, please list the "multiple instant disengages" DE-s can realisticly fit into their build! I'm sure dDuff would like to learn some new things about high end pvp and DE-s(after all he's barely in legend 1), but we simple plebs would also like to know how to fit 5 traitlines and 10 support skills into one build.

[Shaquille Oatmeal.2976]

@"Arcaedus.7290" said:It seems most people are annoyed by a combination of Deadeye's ability to:

• Permastealth
• Deal high burst AND high dps (single target) from range
• Remove revealed
• "One-shot" you with a 1500 range unblockable attack

Sure, these things are oppressive against certain opponents. Some classes just completely lack the ability to tailor a build specifically to fight DE too. Does DE need to be nerfed? Sure, however, I think people are calling for the wrong nerfs.

IMO, the appropriate nerfs would aim to limit stealth access granted by the DE elite spec. I'd venture that silent scope's stealth duration should be lowered from 3s to 1.5s, + have an icd added, and also change that only Shadow Meld's final charge can remove the Revealed debuff.

IMO, a deadeye should not be able to achieve permastealth without taking shadow arts AND shadow refuge as a utility. I'm not sure what total nerfs would be necessary to achieve this but I think a nerf to silent scope would be a good start.

See this guy actually knows what he's talking about.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@geist.4126 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:

Personally I like the kill or get killed style

You mean the "Kill and only get killed when sleeping on the keyboard style?

There is no "High risk" in that.

False, there's actually high risk in using marauder without passive elixir S, endure pain, and any source of protection application unless you steal it from someone with bountiful theft, because guess what — oneshots.

False, DE has multiple instant disengages. So long as they have one dodge, good ones will never be caught. Or if they run acro with hard to catch they're simply never caught unless you have a 1500 range skill that can do 12/16k+ damage

Acro+DE, best synergy ever: EVADE IN STEALTH!Also just so the rest of us won't stay so ignorant, please list the "multiple instant disengages" DE-s can realisticly fit into their build! I'm sure dDuff would like to learn some new things about high end pvp and DE-s(after all he's barely in legend 1), but we simple plebs would also like to know how to fit 5 traitlines and 10 support skills into one build.

Shadowstep, binding shadow, x is 3 utilities?

CS/x/DE and rifle/x gives you:Rifle 4Shadowstep X2Withdrawl or hide in shadowsSw2, if you take sw/xSb5, if you take itRoll for initiative, if you take itHard to catch, if you take acroDagger storm or shadow meldInfiltrator's signet, if you take it

All of the above work with dodge stealth, binding shadow, mark, DJ, TRB combo. With infinite resets

So, DE has plenty of options man

[dDuff.3860]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@geist.4126 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:

Personally I like the kill or get killed style

You mean the "Kill and only get killed when sleeping on the keyboard style?

There is no "High risk" in that.

False, there's actually high risk in using marauder without passive elixir S, endure pain, and any source of protection application unless you steal it from someone with bountiful theft, because guess what — oneshots.

False, DE has multiple instant disengages. So long as they have one dodge, good ones will never be caught. Or if they run acro with hard to catch they're simply never caught unless you have a 1500 range skill that can do 12/16k+ damage

Acro+DE, best synergy ever: EVADE IN STEALTH!Also just so the rest of us won't stay so ignorant, please list the "multiple instant disengages" DE-s can realisticly fit into their build! I'm sure dDuff would like to learn some new things about high end pvp and DE-s(after all he's barely in legend 1), but we simple plebs would also like to know how to fit 5 traitlines and 10 support skills into one build.

Shadowstep, binding shadow, x is 3 utilities?

CS/x/DE and rifle/x gives you:Rifle 4Shadowstep X2Withdrawl or hide in shadowsSw2, if you take sw/xSb5, if you take itRoll for initiative, if you take itHard to catch, if you take acroDagger storm or shadow meldInfiltrator's signet, if you take it

All of the above work with dodge stealth, binding shadow, mark, DJ, TRB combo. With infinite resets

So, DE has plenty of options man

Alrighty, you appear to know thief utilities man. but know - let's be realistic:Binding shadow is a skill for noobs because it gets negated by one dodge or stunbreak. — very weak effect once you start fighting ppl that actually can play against deadeyeI don't understand why'd you incorporate CS traitline there — because it actually don't give you anything of the above and is pretty bad for sPvP for numerous reasons. Instead, you will always want to take trickery because its synergy with being actually a thief. So, you left with one traitline that defines your playstyle, but don't really impact how many "multiple instant disengages' you have.You have 3 slots for utilities, one of which is mandatory shadowstep. I see no reason not to take signet of agility for any thief build, as i gives you dodge, cleanse 3 conditions (thief has very few abilities that cleanse condis), have decent cooldown and passive effect (WOW, when I mentioned these here, I even deeply felt in love with it). So, from my perspective you left with one utility slot, that can be actually used for "instant disengagement tool", which is, for example, blinding powder (that you didn't even mention).

Now lets check your list:

• Rifle 4 isn't instant. In fact it is buggy and may not even work when you have immobilize on you. I have an idea why it happens, but not for this thread. Mostly you use R4 for mobility and very rare - for combat repositioning, because it requires you to drop target. SO: not instant, barely disengaging.
• Shadowstep — see above
• Withdraw - isn't disengagement tool, just another evade with benefits. on the other side (see RFI), HIS - is disengagement tool, but far from being instant, because guess what, casting 1s healskill with obvious tell won't get you anywhere higher than gold.
• Sw2/Sb5 are actually good example here, but it has nothing to deal with deadeye, as it is core thief weaponsets. Even tho it has cast time, it really helps you to control the fight with positioning. But you won't get stealth if you dodge. So it is contradicting with 2 out of 3 points we're discussing here: non-instant, non-deadeye/doesn't work with dodge stealth.
• RFI same as withdraw - isn't disengagement tool, but instant, yea. It allows you to create a gap, but I doubt you can really disengage the fight with that.
• Hard-to-catch is auto stunbreak with 2 dodge refill. Not disengagement.
• Dagger Storm - non instant, non disengagement, FOMO tool, Idk why you list it here, lol. Shadow meld is not instant.
• Infiltrator signet - is engagement tool, because it teleports you to the enemy, not from it.

What you should've actually mention:Blinding powder - perfect example of instant disengagement toolShadow trap - instant disengagement toolShadow refuge — if anything 1/4 sec cast time can be counted as "almost instant" — so "instant" disengagement tool.

TL, DR: if your playstyle really depends on instant disengagement tools, you'll most likely will have only 2 (shadowstep+smth) on your toolbelt.

[Bazsi.2734]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@geist.4126 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:

Personally I like the kill or get killed style

You mean the "Kill and only get killed when sleeping on the keyboard style?

There is no "High risk" in that.

False, there's actually high risk in using marauder without passive elixir S, endure pain, and any source of protection application unless you steal it from someone with bountiful theft, because guess what — oneshots.

False, DE has multiple instant disengages. So long as they have one dodge, good ones will never be caught. Or if they run acro with hard to catch they're simply never caught unless you have a 1500 range skill that can do 12/16k+ damage

Acro+DE, best synergy ever: EVADE IN STEALTH!Also just so the rest of us won't stay so ignorant, please list the "multiple instant disengages" DE-s can realisticly fit into their build! I'm sure dDuff would like to learn some new things about high end pvp and DE-s(after all he's barely in legend 1), but we simple plebs would also like to know how to fit 5 traitlines and 10 support skills into one build.

Shadowstep, binding shadow, x is 3 utilities?

CS/x/DE and rifle/x gives you:Rifle 4Shadowstep X2Withdrawl or hide in shadowsSw2, if you take sw/xSb5, if you take itRoll for initiative, if you take itHard to catch, if you take acroDagger storm or shadow meldInfiltrator's signet, if you take it

All of the above work with dodge stealth, binding shadow, mark, DJ, TRB combo. With infinite resets

So, DE has plenty of options man

Well yeah, if Daggerstorm or Infiltrator's signet counts as "instant disengage"... I guess we don't have to take you seriously then.And just FYI, rifle DE-s in sPvP either take DA+Trickery or SA+Trickery. Critical strikes isn't nearly as useful, and Acro is the worst you could possibly take.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@geist.4126 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:

Personally I like the kill or get killed style

You mean the "Kill and only get killed when sleeping on the keyboard style?

There is no "High risk" in that.

False, there's actually high risk in using marauder without passive elixir S, endure pain, and any source of protection application unless you steal it from someone with bountiful theft, because guess what — oneshots.

False, DE has multiple instant disengages. So long as they have one dodge, good ones will never be caught. Or if they run acro with hard to catch they're simply never caught unless you have a 1500 range skill that can do 12/16k+ damage

Acro+DE, best synergy ever: EVADE IN STEALTH!Also just so the rest of us won't stay so ignorant, please list the "multiple instant disengages" DE-s can realisticly fit into their build! I'm sure dDuff would like to learn some new things about high end pvp and DE-s(after all he's barely in legend 1), but we simple plebs would also like to know how to fit 5 traitlines and 10 support skills into one build.

Shadowstep, binding shadow, x is 3 utilities?

CS/x/DE and rifle/x gives you:Rifle 4Shadowstep X2Withdrawl or hide in shadowsSw2, if you take sw/xSb5, if you take itRoll for initiative, if you take itHard to catch, if you take acroDagger storm or shadow meldInfiltrator's signet, if you take it

All of the above work with dodge stealth, binding shadow, mark, DJ, TRB combo. With infinite resets

So, DE has plenty of options man

Well yeah, if Daggerstorm or Infiltrator's signet counts as "instant disengage"... I guess we don't have to take you seriously then.And just FYI, rifle DE-s in sPvP either take DA+Trickery or SA+Trickery. Critical strikes isn't nearly as useful, and Acro is the worst you could possibly take.

Then morons like me manage to use SA/CS and rack up 20 odd kills a game with 1 death at most...

[dDuff.3860]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@geist.4126 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

Personally I like the kill or get killed style

You mean the "Kill and only get killed when sleeping on the keyboard style?

There is no "High risk" in that.

False, there's actually high risk in using marauder without passive elixir S, endure pain, and any source of protection application unless you steal it from someone with bountiful theft, because guess what — oneshots.

False, DE has multiple instant disengages. So long as they have one dodge, good ones will never be caught. Or if they run acro with hard to catch they're simply never caught unless you have a 1500 range skill that can do 12/16k+ damage

Acro+DE, best synergy ever: EVADE IN STEALTH!Also just so the rest of us won't stay so ignorant, please list the "multiple instant disengages" DE-s can realisticly fit into their build! I'm sure dDuff would like to learn some new things about high end pvp and DE-s(after all he's barely in legend 1), but we simple plebs would also like to know how to fit 5 traitlines and 10 support skills into one build.

Shadowstep, binding shadow, x is 3 utilities?

CS/x/DE and rifle/x gives you:Rifle 4Shadowstep X2Withdrawl or hide in shadowsSw2, if you take sw/xSb5, if you take itRoll for initiative, if you take itHard to catch, if you take acroDagger storm or shadow meldInfiltrator's signet, if you take it

All of the above work with dodge stealth, binding shadow, mark, DJ, TRB combo. With infinite resets

So, DE has plenty of options man

Well yeah, if Daggerstorm or Infiltrator's signet counts as "instant disengage"... I guess we don't have to take you seriously then.And just FYI, rifle DE-s in sPvP either take DA+Trickery or SA+Trickery. Critical strikes isn't nearly as useful, and Acro is the worst you could possibly take.

Then morons like me manage to use SA/CS and rack up 20 odd kills a game with 1 death at most...

The only reason to take CS is to utilize high ferocity amulets (without precision) and hidden killer trait. If you're marauder there's a lot more sense to take DA.

Anyway you had once shown the fake video, passing it off as the truth as an argument. So yeah, you can play whatever makes you happy, once you start progressing as a thief in general, you'll find out that some things appear to not be what you have thought about them

[sephiroth.4217]

@dDuff.3860 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@geist.4126 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

Personally I like the kill or get killed style

You mean the "Kill and only get killed when sleeping on the keyboard style?

There is no "High risk" in that.

False, there's actually high risk in using marauder without passive elixir S, endure pain, and any source of protection application unless you steal it from someone with bountiful theft, because guess what — oneshots.

False, DE has multiple instant disengages. So long as they have one dodge, good ones will never be caught. Or if they run acro with hard to catch they're simply never caught unless you have a 1500 range skill that can do 12/16k+ damage

Acro+DE, best synergy ever: EVADE IN STEALTH!Also just so the rest of us won't stay so ignorant, please list the "multiple instant disengages" DE-s can realisticly fit into their build! I'm sure dDuff would like to learn some new things about high end pvp and DE-s(after all he's barely in legend 1), but we simple plebs would also like to know how to fit 5 traitlines and 10 support skills into one build.

Shadowstep, binding shadow, x is 3 utilities?

CS/x/DE and rifle/x gives you:Rifle 4Shadowstep X2Withdrawl or hide in shadowsSw2, if you take sw/xSb5, if you take itRoll for initiative, if you take itHard to catch, if you take acroDagger storm or shadow meldInfiltrator's signet, if you take it

All of the above work with dodge stealth, binding shadow, mark, DJ, TRB combo. With infinite resets

So, DE has plenty of options man

Well yeah, if Daggerstorm or Infiltrator's signet counts as "instant disengage"... I guess we don't have to take you seriously then.And just FYI, rifle DE-s in sPvP either take DA+Trickery or SA+Trickery. Critical strikes isn't nearly as useful, and Acro is the worst you could possibly take.

Then morons like me manage to use SA/CS and rack up 20 odd kills a game with 1 death at most...

The only reason to take CS is to utilize high ferocity amulets (without precision) and hidden killer trait. If you're marauder there's a lot more sense to take DA.

Anyway you had once shown the fake video, passing it off as the truth as an argument. So yeah, you can play whatever makes you happy, once you start progressing as a thief in general, you'll find out that some things appear to not be what you have thought about them

I can give you more videos if you want? I have blow out games from time to time but not all that much, maybe like 1/15

I got about 4 or 5 classes I can play that rake 20 kills and 1 or 2 deaths a game, its only because ive been playing them nonstop for 6 years tho, made 6 of each ? and have 9k or more hours played(Although until DE I hadn't touched thief since they removed ricochet, due to 300 ping couldnt play d/d or any other 130 range weapon builds)

You need to get better with your insults man, like try telling me to get a life or something ?

[dDuff.3860]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@geist.4126 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

Personally I like the kill or get killed style

You mean the "Kill and only get killed when sleeping on the keyboard style?

There is no "High risk" in that.

False, there's actually high risk in using marauder without passive elixir S, endure pain, and any source of protection application unless you steal it from someone with bountiful theft, because guess what — oneshots.

False, DE has multiple instant disengages. So long as they have one dodge, good ones will never be caught. Or if they run acro with hard to catch they're simply never caught unless you have a 1500 range skill that can do 12/16k+ damage

Acro+DE, best synergy ever: EVADE IN STEALTH!Also just so the rest of us won't stay so ignorant, please list the "multiple instant disengages" DE-s can realisticly fit into their build! I'm sure dDuff would like to learn some new things about high end pvp and DE-s(after all he's barely in legend 1), but we simple plebs would also like to know how to fit 5 traitlines and 10 support skills into one build.

Shadowstep, binding shadow, x is 3 utilities?

CS/x/DE and rifle/x gives you:Rifle 4Shadowstep X2Withdrawl or hide in shadowsSw2, if you take sw/xSb5, if you take itRoll for initiative, if you take itHard to catch, if you take acroDagger storm or shadow meldInfiltrator's signet, if you take it

All of the above work with dodge stealth, binding shadow, mark, DJ, TRB combo. With infinite resets

So, DE has plenty of options man

Well yeah, if Daggerstorm or Infiltrator's signet counts as "instant disengage"... I guess we don't have to take you seriously then.And just FYI, rifle DE-s in sPvP either take DA+Trickery or SA+Trickery. Critical strikes isn't nearly as useful, and Acro is the worst you could possibly take.

Then morons like me manage to use SA/CS and rack up 20 odd kills a game with 1 death at most...

The only reason to take CS is to utilize high ferocity amulets (without precision) and hidden killer trait. If you're marauder there's a lot more sense to take DA.

Anyway you had once shown the fake video, passing it off as the truth as an argument. So yeah, you can play whatever makes you happy, once you start progressing as a thief in general, you'll find out that some things appear to not be what you have thought about them

I can give you more videos if you want? I have blow out games from time to time but not all that much, maybe like 1/15

I got about 4 or 5 classes I can play that rake 20 kills and 1 or 2 deaths a game, its only because ive been playing them nonstop for 6 years tho, made 6 of each ? and have 9k or more hours played(Although I havent touched thief since they removed ricochet, due to 300 ping couldnt play d/d or any other 130 range weapon builds)

You need to get better with your insults man, like try telling me to get a life or something ?

All of my quality punchlines got deleted by moderator, so there's no reason to offend you. Also I've watched your videos and there's also no reason to insult you, as you seem to not understand my points and quality of your gameplay. Cheers.

[sephiroth.4217]

@dDuff.3860 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@geist.4126 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

Personally I like the kill or get killed style

You mean the "Kill and only get killed when sleeping on the keyboard style?

There is no "High risk" in that.

False, there's actually high risk in using marauder without passive elixir S, endure pain, and any source of protection application unless you steal it from someone with bountiful theft, because guess what — oneshots.

False, DE has multiple instant disengages. So long as they have one dodge, good ones will never be caught. Or if they run acro with hard to catch they're simply never caught unless you have a 1500 range skill that can do 12/16k+ damage

Acro+DE, best synergy ever: EVADE IN STEALTH!Also just so the rest of us won't stay so ignorant, please list the "multiple instant disengages" DE-s can realisticly fit into their build! I'm sure dDuff would like to learn some new things about high end pvp and DE-s(after all he's barely in legend 1), but we simple plebs would also like to know how to fit 5 traitlines and 10 support skills into one build.

Shadowstep, binding shadow, x is 3 utilities?

CS/x/DE and rifle/x gives you:Rifle 4Shadowstep X2Withdrawl or hide in shadowsSw2, if you take sw/xSb5, if you take itRoll for initiative, if you take itHard to catch, if you take acroDagger storm or shadow meldInfiltrator's signet, if you take it

All of the above work with dodge stealth, binding shadow, mark, DJ, TRB combo. With infinite resets

So, DE has plenty of options man

Well yeah, if Daggerstorm or Infiltrator's signet counts as "instant disengage"... I guess we don't have to take you seriously then.And just FYI, rifle DE-s in sPvP either take DA+Trickery or SA+Trickery. Critical strikes isn't nearly as useful, and Acro is the worst you could possibly take.

Then morons like me manage to use SA/CS and rack up 20 odd kills a game with 1 death at most...

The only reason to take CS is to utilize high ferocity amulets (without precision) and hidden killer trait. If you're marauder there's a lot more sense to take DA.

Anyway you had once shown the fake video, passing it off as the truth as an argument. So yeah, you can play whatever makes you happy, once you start progressing as a thief in general, you'll find out that some things appear to not be what you have thought about them

I can give you more videos if you want? I have blow out games from time to time but not all that much, maybe like 1/15

I got about 4 or 5 classes I can play that rake 20 kills and 1 or 2 deaths a game, its only because ive been playing them nonstop for 6 years tho, made 6 of each ? and have 9k or more hours played(Although I havent touched thief since they removed ricochet, due to 300 ping couldnt play d/d or any other 130 range weapon builds)

You need to get better with your insults man, like try telling me to get a life or something ?

All of my quality punchlines got deleted by moderator, so there's no reason to offend you. Also I've watched your videos and there's also no reason to insult you, as you seem to not understand my points and quality of your gameplay. Cheers.

Mang... We are constantly having a friendly banter, sometimes your point slips through in the middle of it

[FaboBabo.3581]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@DFny.9145 said:Well, our only weakness is being cornered by mesmers.

how the kitten would you get cornered, just dodge and walk away in stealth???

tzeeeeeeeeeee ...mirage counters DE so hard....

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@"Zawn.9647" said:the issue is that DE is a spec of extremes... either they go 1shot which has 0 interaction and shouldnt be a possible buildor they go perma-stealth which has near 0 interaction since stealth has only 1 counter play in Revealed and DE has a very kitten designed elite that removes the only counter to it :)

today i fought a DE on spvp...

stealth+1-2 shotsi run into him, he dodges and goes stealthi go back to the point, behind a "wall" (LoS)he pops on the points auto attacking mei dodge into him and stun + burst, he manages to survive with 15% hp left and dodges to stealthi randomly walk with auto attackshe pops further away shooting mei hide behind that wall mentioned earlier

and this keeps going until the game ends... (the score was like 470 when this started)

i'd rather smash my face against a wall than having to fight something like this... not even fighting i mean... just "dancing" perhaps

I believe this is the more important point to note ^

Is DE really OP or is it just extremely not fun to play against? I personally don't feel it is excruciatingly OP but fighting "Anything" with 100% stealth uptime is kind of ridiculous on principle to begin with. I have noticed however that those 100% stealth uptime mechanics do make it very easy for players to abuse speedhack though. <- This is the real problem with DE my opinion, not it's core mechanics.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@dDuff.3860 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@geist.4126 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:

Personally I like the kill or get killed style

You mean the "Kill and only get killed when sleeping on the keyboard style?

There is no "High risk" in that.

False, there's actually high risk in using marauder without passive elixir S, endure pain, and any source of protection application unless you steal it from someone with bountiful theft, because guess what — oneshots.

False, DE has multiple instant disengages. So long as they have one dodge, good ones will never be caught. Or if they run acro with hard to catch they're simply never caught unless you have a 1500 range skill that can do 12/16k+ damage

Acro+DE, best synergy ever: EVADE IN STEALTH!Also just so the rest of us won't stay so ignorant, please list the "multiple instant disengages" DE-s can realisticly fit into their build! I'm sure dDuff would like to learn some new things about high end pvp and DE-s(after all he's barely in legend 1), but we simple plebs would also like to know how to fit 5 traitlines and 10 support skills into one build.

Shadowstep, binding shadow, x is 3 utilities?

CS/x/DE and rifle/x gives you:Rifle 4Shadowstep X2Withdrawl or hide in shadowsSw2, if you take sw/xSb5, if you take itRoll for initiative, if you take itHard to catch, if you take acroDagger storm or shadow meldInfiltrator's signet, if you take it

All of the above work with dodge stealth, binding shadow, mark, DJ, TRB combo. With infinite resets

So, DE has plenty of options man

Alrighty, you appear to know thief utilities man. but know - let's be realistic:Binding shadow is a skill for noobs because it gets negated by one dodge or stunbreak. — very weak effect once you start fighting ppl that actually can play against deadeyeI don't understand why'd you incorporate CS traitline there — because it actually don't give you anything of the above and is pretty bad for sPvP for numerous reasons. Instead, you will always want to take trickery because its synergy with being actually a thief. So, you left with one traitline that defines your playstyle, but don't really impact how many "multiple instant disengages' you have.You have 3 slots for utilities, one of which is mandatory shadowstep. I see no reason not to take signet of agility for any thief build, as i gives you dodge, cleanse 3 conditions (thief has very few abilities that cleanse condis), have decent cooldown and passive effect (WOW, when I mentioned these here, I even deeply felt in love with it). So, from my perspective you left with one utility slot, that can be actually used for "instant disengagement tool", which is, for example, blinding powder (that you didn't even mention).

Now lets check your list:

• Rifle 4 isn't instant. In fact it is buggy and may not even work when you have immobilize on you. I have an idea why it happens, but not for this thread. Mostly you use R4 for mobility and very rare - for combat repositioning, because it requires you to drop target. SO: not instant, barely disengaging.
• Shadowstep — see above
• Withdraw - isn't disengagement tool, just another evade with benefits. on the other side (see RFI), HIS - is disengagement tool, but far from being instant, because guess what, casting 1s healskill with obvious tell won't get you anywhere higher than gold.
• Sw2/Sb5 are actually good example here, but it has nothing to deal with deadeye, as it is core thief weaponsets. Even tho it has cast time, it really helps you to control the fight with positioning. But you won't get stealth if you dodge. So it is contradicting with 2 out of 3 points we're discussing here: non-instant, non-deadeye/doesn't work with dodge stealth.
• RFI same as withdraw - isn't disengagement tool, but instant, yea. It allows you to create a gap, but I doubt you can really disengage the fight with that.
• Hard-to-catch is auto stunbreak with 2 dodge refill. Not disengagement.
• Dagger Storm - non instant, non disengagement, FOMO tool, Idk why you list it here, lol. Shadow meld is not instant.
• Infiltrator signet - is engagement tool, because it teleports you to the enemy, not from it.

What you should've actually mention:Blinding powder - perfect example of instant disengagement toolShadow trap - instant disengagement toolShadow refuge — if anything 1/4 sec cast time can be counted as "almost instant" — so "instant" disengagement tool.

TL, DR: if your playstyle really depends on instant disengagement tools, you'll most likely will have only 2 (shadowstep+smth) on your toolbelt.

binding shadow from stealth has no tell, and with DE you can easily have 100% stealth uptime. so you can be literally anywhere on the map and open an engagement with it that unless someone has a stunbreak+immob clear or a passive invuln will kill them.

so swap CS with trickery. all the above points stand?

Show me a video of rifle 4 getting interrupted man lol. if you get jumped, you can push it until you're out of initiative and then dodge. really, you can use any of these methods+dodge to reset every fight you're not instantly winning. Which is why DE has too much disengage potential for the burst it has access to.

you can sw2 or infiltrator's signet to anyone else on the map since they go off even when you aren't in range of the target. combine with a dodge and voila, disengage.

hard to catch also teleports you away from whoever stunned you. so it's the perfect disengage? it even refills your endurance so you can dodge ffs

dagger storm lets you invuln for 4s while moving and has no windup time, so yeah that's a disengage? again, try and interrupt a shadow meld. show me a video of it happening realisticly.

that you added to the list of disengages shows what exactly? lmao

[Ashgar.3024]

And here i was busting my balls trying to explain how DE isn't "useless" in that other thread, make up your mind people.

[dDuff.3860]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@geist.4126 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

Personally I like the kill or get killed style

You mean the "Kill and only get killed when sleeping on the keyboard style?

There is no "High risk" in that.

False, there's actually high risk in using marauder without passive elixir S, endure pain, and any source of protection application unless you steal it from someone with bountiful theft, because guess what — oneshots.

False, DE has multiple instant disengages. So long as they have one dodge, good ones will never be caught. Or if they run acro with hard to catch they're simply never caught unless you have a 1500 range skill that can do 12/16k+ damage

Acro+DE, best synergy ever: EVADE IN STEALTH!Also just so the rest of us won't stay so ignorant, please list the "multiple instant disengages" DE-s can realisticly fit into their build! I'm sure dDuff would like to learn some new things about high end pvp and DE-s(after all he's barely in legend 1), but we simple plebs would also like to know how to fit 5 traitlines and 10 support skills into one build.

Shadowstep, binding shadow, x is 3 utilities?

CS/x/DE and rifle/x gives you:Rifle 4Shadowstep X2Withdrawl or hide in shadowsSw2, if you take sw/xSb5, if you take itRoll for initiative, if you take itHard to catch, if you take acroDagger storm or shadow meldInfiltrator's signet, if you take it

All of the above work with dodge stealth, binding shadow, mark, DJ, TRB combo. With infinite resets

So, DE has plenty of options man

Well yeah, if Daggerstorm or Infiltrator's signet counts as "instant disengage"... I guess we don't have to take you seriously then.And just FYI, rifle DE-s in sPvP either take DA+Trickery or SA+Trickery. Critical strikes isn't nearly as useful, and Acro is the worst you could possibly take.

Then morons like me manage to use SA/CS and rack up 20 odd kills a game with 1 death at most...

The only reason to take CS is to utilize high ferocity amulets (without precision) and hidden killer trait. If you're marauder there's a lot more sense to take DA.

Anyway you had once shown the fake video, passing it off as the truth as an argument. So yeah, you can play whatever makes you happy, once you start progressing as a thief in general, you'll find out that some things appear to not be what you have thought about them

I can give you more videos if you want? I have blow out games from time to time but not all that much, maybe like 1/15

I got about 4 or 5 classes I can play that rake 20 kills and 1 or 2 deaths a game, its only because ive been playing them nonstop for 6 years tho, made 6 of each ? and have 9k or more hours played(Although I havent touched thief since they removed ricochet, due to 300 ping couldnt play d/d or any other 130 range weapon builds)

You need to get better with your insults man, like try telling me to get a life or something ?

All of my quality punchlines got deleted by moderator, so there's no reason to offend you. Also I've watched your videos and there's also no reason to insult you, as you seem to not understand my points and quality of your gameplay. Cheers.

Mang... We are constantly having a friendly banter, sometimes your point slips through in the middle of it

We'll talk once you get out from gold.

[sephiroth.4217]

@dDuff.3860 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@geist.4126 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

Personally I like the kill or get killed style

You mean the "Kill and only get killed when sleeping on the keyboard style?

There is no "High risk" in that.

False, there's actually high risk in using marauder without passive elixir S, endure pain, and any source of protection application unless you steal it from someone with bountiful theft, because guess what — oneshots.

False, DE has multiple instant disengages. So long as they have one dodge, good ones will never be caught. Or if they run acro with hard to catch they're simply never caught unless you have a 1500 range skill that can do 12/16k+ damage

Acro+DE, best synergy ever: EVADE IN STEALTH!Also just so the rest of us won't stay so ignorant, please list the "multiple instant disengages" DE-s can realisticly fit into their build! I'm sure dDuff would like to learn some new things about high end pvp and DE-s(after all he's barely in legend 1), but we simple plebs would also like to know how to fit 5 traitlines and 10 support skills into one build.

Shadowstep, binding shadow, x is 3 utilities?

CS/x/DE and rifle/x gives you:Rifle 4Shadowstep X2Withdrawl or hide in shadowsSw2, if you take sw/xSb5, if you take itRoll for initiative, if you take itHard to catch, if you take acroDagger storm or shadow meldInfiltrator's signet, if you take it

All of the above work with dodge stealth, binding shadow, mark, DJ, TRB combo. With infinite resets

So, DE has plenty of options man

Well yeah, if Daggerstorm or Infiltrator's signet counts as "instant disengage"... I guess we don't have to take you seriously then.And just FYI, rifle DE-s in sPvP either take DA+Trickery or SA+Trickery. Critical strikes isn't nearly as useful, and Acro is the worst you could possibly take.

Then morons like me manage to use SA/CS and rack up 20 odd kills a game with 1 death at most...

The only reason to take CS is to utilize high ferocity amulets (without precision) and hidden killer trait. If you're marauder there's a lot more sense to take DA.

Anyway you had once shown the fake video, passing it off as the truth as an argument. So yeah, you can play whatever makes you happy, once you start progressing as a thief in general, you'll find out that some things appear to not be what you have thought about them

I can give you more videos if you want? I have blow out games from time to time but not all that much, maybe like 1/15

I got about 4 or 5 classes I can play that rake 20 kills and 1 or 2 deaths a game, its only because ive been playing them nonstop for 6 years tho, made 6 of each ? and have 9k or more hours played(Although I havent touched thief since they removed ricochet, due to 300 ping couldnt play d/d or any other 130 range weapon builds)

You need to get better with your insults man, like try telling me to get a life or something ?

All of my quality punchlines got deleted by moderator, so there's no reason to offend you. Also I've watched your videos and there's also no reason to insult you, as you seem to not understand my points and quality of your gameplay. Cheers.

Mang... We are constantly having a friendly banter, sometimes your point slips through in the middle of it

We'll talk once you get out from gold.

I cant, its impossible to tank to silver and being platinum produces very unfair games for the people I play with who only been in the game a month or so...

Besides, platinum is boring as... most are clueless people being carried by over tuned specs, whats worse is just about everyone is using the same copy paste build... If the game ever got balanced to bring them back in line with all the off meta specs, wonder if those players would still be up top? Most likely not.

Not only that but the game is so much more fun when you treat conquest as a deathmatch... Playing to win on Conquest can be achieved by sleeping on points then we use that as a reflection of skill levels, bit of an oxymoron to me.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Me thinks the mods dont like deadeye either, and they don't think devs read profession forums.

wakawaka

[Crab Fear.1624]

Don't forget to nerf deadeye in the next update

[tinyreborn.1938]

Same as 'mirage' feedback thread doesnt go to mesmer forum ;)

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Deadeye is more or less an example of how something doesn't need to be OP to be bad for the game.

Is it unbeatable? No. In fact it often sucks against organized teams.

But in WvW it's absolute cancer to play against. Perma stealth on a long ranged assassin is just something that doesn't need to exist.

It shouldn't be nerfed, but it should be reworked.