Would it be better if gates would not be upgradable?

[Riko.9214]

As of now it feels PvD is a bit too strong in WvW. What if gates can no longer be fortified?

I see the following improvements:1) Less PvD especially when forces are nearly equal it would stop being impossible to breach T32) Servers that currently have lower numbers would have easier time to flip towers on the backside of enemy map3) More fighting in general4) More tactical choices between few weak points (gates) that likely have heavier defensive siege vs free of choice location but against a fortified wall

Opinions?

[Dawdler.8521]

It would be a nice idea had the towers and keeps actual medieval design that funneled foes through danger even if the door was breached, unfortunetly thats as far from reality as it gets.

I'd rather see a straight up buff to trebuchets instead. They are by far the most visually impressive siege when it comes to an actual GW2 siege, but they are so expensive with so low dps they are completely pointless compared to other siege. Trebs should be the real T3 killers and punch straight through the exponential tier gain of armor/hp walls/doors.

[Bangan.5912]

How would making gates weaker lessen PvD? If they don't have the tactic they get PvD'd all the time, they would just drop faster if they didn't fortify. Which means more PvD.

[Jeknar.6184]

@Dawdler.8521 said:It would be a nice idea had the towers and keeps actual medieval design that funneled foes through danger even if the door was breached, unfortunetly thats as far from reality as it gets.

I'd rather see a straight up buff to trebuchets instead. They are by far the most visually impressive siege when it comes to an actual GW2 siege, but they are so expensive with so low dps they are completely pointless compared to other siege. Trebs should be the real T3 killers and punch straight through the exponential tier gain of armor/hp walls/doors.

They should give trebs the same buff they gave to catapults: more damage per time channeled, otherwise there is no point wasting double the supplies to build somenthing that deal half the damage a catapult does.

[Turk.5460]

@Dawdler.8521 said:It would be a nice idea had the towers and keeps actual medieval design that funneled foes through danger even if the door was breached, unfortunetly thats as far from reality as it gets.

I'd rather see a straight up buff to trebuchets instead. They are by far the most visually impressive siege when it comes to an actual GW2 siege, but they are so expensive with so low dps they are completely pointless compared to other siege. Trebs should be the real T3 killers and punch straight through the exponential tier gain of armor/hp walls/doors.

As cool as they look, I don't think your suggestion would be welcome in terms of balance. The whole point of Trebs is to be able to attack from a much safer distance and potentially force defenders out from the safety of their structure. Catapults are generally closer but carry a bigger risk, though less true on DBL. If damage were to be increased to Trebs, then there wouldn't be any point in getting up close and personal to the structure - every squad would almost exclusively use trebs from points impossible to counter-siege.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

Better yet, why don't we just make towers and keeps a big square on the ground with no doors or walls and a big flag in the center? Capture the flag you win the game.

[Jeknar.6184]

@Turk.5460 said:> As cool as they look, I don't think your suggestion would be welcome in terms of balance. The whole point of Trebs is to be able to attack from a much safer distance and potentially force defenders out from the safety of their structure. Catapults are generally closer but carry a bigger risk, though less true on DBL. If damage were to be increased to Trebs, then there wouldn't be any point in getting up close and personal to the structure - every squad would almost exclusively use trebs from points impossible to counter-siege.

Which would force the enemy force to actually get off their walls and come fight to destroy the trebs? Sounds good to me.

[Turk.5460]

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@Turk.5460 said:> As cool as they look, I don't think your suggestion would be welcome in terms of balance. The whole point of Trebs is to be able to attack from a

much

safer distance and potentially force defenders out from the safety of their structure. Catapults are generally closer but carry a bigger risk, though less true on DBL. If damage were to be increased to Trebs, then there wouldn't be any point in getting up close and personal to the structure - every squad would almost exclusively use trebs from points impossible to counter-siege.

Which would force the enemy force to actually get off their walls and come fight to destroy the trebs? Sounds good to me.

They already have to when the Trebs are placed correctly. The trade-off is already in place, so there is no reason to make the Trebs even stronger.

[Riko.9214]

@Nevaahe.6308 said:How would making gates weaker lessen PvD? If they don't have the tactic they get PvD'd all the time, they would just drop faster if they didn't fortify. Which means more PvD.

Pretty simple - battle starts when the door/wall is brocken until that moment it is PvD (the passive AC spam and such has nothing to do with fighting), so weaker gates = less PvD.

[SkyShroud.2865]

Were you around when garrison wg wasn't upgradable?

[Victory.2879]

We don't need faster karma trains.

OP, your suggestion would just making trying to defend structures even harder. Having weak gates just means a larger force can rush around capping even faster whilst giving defenders almost no chance to even reach the attacked structure before the gates are down and the tower/etc is capped.

Unfortified gates melt in seconds.

The battle starts before you even reach the structure- it might not be the sort of 'battle' you want, but it is part of the game. It's not 'pvd' up to that point when the gates go down if there are defenders and defences in place - sometimes attackers are so dumb they will stand in treb cows and lose all their supplies before they even reach the gate!

[Trinnitty.8256]

if they were weaker they would need to be made to only be attacked and take damage by siege.

[Victory.2879]

@Trinnitty.8256 said:if they were weaker they would need to be made to only be attacked and take damage by siege.

6 rams make short work of gates while the zerg stands around admiring their armor- what difference would them only being damaged by siege make? 1-2 seconds?

[Trinnitty.8256]

@Victory.2879 said:

@Trinnitty.8256 said:if they were weaker they would need to be made to only be attacked and take damage by siege.

6 rams make short work of gates while the zerg stands around admiring their armor- what difference would them only being damaged by siege make? 1-2 seconds?

If no one is defending and its paper sure. What about T3 stuff with hardened gates and siege coverage. It can take a few attempts to break a gate well guarded.

[hunkamania.7561]

Ya, it would help not making the gates non upgradable because keeps and towers are really not worth the time and effort to take unless you wanna get some bags(farm siege humpers) so most of the time you won't bother.. stuff barely flips these days unless there's 0 resistance.

[LetoII.3782]

@Trinnitty.8256 said:

@Victory.2879 said:

@Trinnitty.8256 said:if they were weaker they would need to be made to only be attacked and take damage by siege.

6 rams make short work of gates while the zerg stands around admiring their armor- what difference would them only being damaged by siege make? 1-2 seconds?

If no one is defending and its paper sure. What about T3 stuff with hardened gates and siege coverage. It can take a few attempts to break a gate well guarded.

Uhoh someone didn't read before commenting

[MedievalThings.5417]

@"Riko.9214" said:As of now it feels PvD is a bit too strong in WvW. What if gates can no longer be fortified?

I see the following improvements:1) Less PvD especially when forces are nearly equal it would stop being impossible to breach T32) Servers that currently have lower numbers would have easier time to flip towers on the backside of enemy map3) More fighting in general4) More tactical choices between few weak points (gates) that likely have heavier defensive siege vs free of choice location but against a fortified wall

Opinions?

NO. The last thing we need to do is make the super-blob pve train move faster. Even with scouts, the blobs troll tactics, and then appear with 50+ and can flip a T3 tower in under a minute.

The only thing that needs to happen with siege, is:

1. remove all siege except for oil and rams
2. limit rams on a gate to 3
3. fix oil immunity, cause even traited you can still be knocked off
4. only rams can damage gates and contest structures
5. remove guild auras (or change them somehow)
6. insert some fix for wall combat, because having attackers be able to spam 100 aoes on a wall, yet defenders can not use the wall to defend is broken

It's still not going to fix "fight guilds" that keep stacking on one server to avoid combat and ktrain, or how blobs refuse to face each other unless they have to because they would rather ktrain for easy loot and ranks, but it would be a start.

[Riba.3271]

Things just upgrade too fast. You can't do anything with 10-20 people, unless its the dead hours, against T3 objectives. Theres 2 options:

• Reduce the health of fortified gates/walls by like 20%
• Make objectives upgrade slower (25/50/100 dollies, overall 25% increase )

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Threather.9354" said:Things just upgrade too fast. You can't do anything with 10-20 people, unless its the dead hours, against T3 objectives. Theres 2 options:

• Reduce the health of fortified gates/walls by like 20%
• Make objectives upgrade slower (25/50/100 dollies, overall 25% increase )

Upgrading fast is ok. WvW should be in constant movement - few players probably play more than 2h at a time.

The problem is the exponential point gain (which is absurd) and the defense buffs (which are obscene). Sometimes you cant even wear down T3 in 4h, let alone 2. And when the answer is always "well bring 50 people then" WvW becomes a boring zergy mess.

[aspirine.6852]

Problems are that some servers only come with full blob. In that case you cannot even react before they reach lordsroom.Smaller group possibility sounds good on paper but only there.