Bring back Ricochet

[Turk.5460]

I think its time for our quarterly request to return Ricochet to the game. I'd like to see it used in Zerg fights in WvW, and I don't think it would break PvE any more than the current AoE of other professions does. Perhaps they can make it so skills like Body Shot or Head Shot cannot ricochet to avoid unhealthy interactions with things like Panic Strike and Impacting Disruption?

[bq pd.2148]

i dont think ricochet would be enough to make it viable in zergs as it still is a projectile.but anyway where would you like that trait as addition/replacement to ankle shots, baseline or at a different position?

[Turk.5460]

I think you are greatly overestimating how many reflects/projectile destroys are brought to zerg fights. Warrior and Guardian bubbles are generally the only thing you have to worry about.Replacing Ankle Shots would be most logical. Adding its effect to Ankle Shots would be too much.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

I just want it back because it was a fun trait, and now rifle exists pistols can be repurposed into bouncy bullets without hurting purity of purpose etc. Bumpity bump bump.

[Turk.5460]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:I just want it back because it was a fun trait, and now rifle exists pistols can be repurposed into bouncy bullets without hurting purity of purpose etc. Bumpity bump bump.

If it weren't for that Trait I don't think I ever would have discovered WvW, which is now the only game mode I play. It's silly, I know, but here's how it went:

• Decided to level up Thief
• P/P w/Ricochet - bullets everywhere - this is fantastic!
• P/P forever! Now I want Quip to be extra obnoxious
• Enter WvW for the first time for Gift of Exploration
• Never leave WvW

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:I just want it back because it was a fun trait, and now rifle exists pistols can be repurposed into bouncy bullets without hurting purity of purpose etc. Bumpity bump bump.

If it weren't for that Trait I don't think I ever would have discovered WvW, which is now the only game mode I play. It's silly, I know, but here's how it went:

• Decided to level up Thief
• P/P w/Ricochet - bullets everywhere - this is fantastic!
• P/P forever! Now I want Quip to be extra obnoxious
• Enter WvW for the first time for Gift of Exploration
• Never leave WvW

I shamefully admit I first entered WvW as a double bow ranger in december 2012, absolutely no clue what I was doing xD

[Turk.5460]

I just want to be able to see bullets bounce everywhere again, it certainly won't be more damage than a CoR or Necro Shades. It would be nice for Thieves to have an AoE option that isn't melee or as slow/ineffective as Shortbow.

[InsaneQR.7412]

I would vote for pierce instead but thats just me prolly.

[Turk.5460]

@InsaneQR.7412 said:I would vote for pierce instead but thats just me prolly.

Pierce might have better small scale potential for effectiveness, but overall I think Ricochet would be morefun.

[Kulvar.1239]

@Turk.5460 said:I think you are greatly overestimating how many reflects/projectile destroys are brought to zerg fights. Warrior and Guardian bubbles are generally the only thing you have to worry about.Replacing Ankle Shots would be most logical. Adding its effect to Ankle Shots would be too much.

Revenant Ventari bubble is a staple.

Improving Ankle Shots, our only pistol trait, to trade strength for utility is a good idea.The trade being that you can't pick Practice Tolerance for increased damages.But it'll make it too similar to Shortbow to just replace Ankle Shots with Ricochet.

[DemonSeed.3528]

I think there is no reason it can't make a comeback this late into the game with all the stuff that has changed. There has been so much power creep etc since then that this will probably be underperforming/underwhelming compared to stuff we have now in the game.

[Turk.5460]

@Hitman.5829Please explain how ? It wouldn't be any more effective than a Ranger using Longbow. And certainly wouldn't do as much damage. It was also an insanely fun PvE trait.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@Turk.5460 said:I think you are greatly overestimating how many reflects/projectile destroys are brought to zerg fights. Warrior and Guardian bubbles are generally the only thing you have to worry about.Replacing Ankle Shots would be most logical. Adding its effect to Ankle Shots would be too much.

Simple WvW rule:

If a projectile based build becomes dangerous enough to make a difference, then it becomes automatically useless because people will bring extra projectile hate.

It is simply not possible for a Projectile build to shine in wvw.

If its bad then nobody cares.If its good then everyone will bring easy counters.

Is there even a class thats meta and doesn’t have a anti Projectile option?

[Turk.5460]

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I think you are greatly overestimating how many reflects/projectile destroys are brought to zerg fights. Warrior and Guardian bubbles are generally the only thing you have to worry about.Replacing Ankle Shots would be most logical. Adding its effect to Ankle Shots would be too much.

Simple WvW rule:

If a projectile based build becomes dangerous enough to make a difference, then it becomes automatically useless because people will bring extra projectile hate.

It is simply not possible for a Projectile build to shine in wvw.

If its bad then nobody cares.If its good then everyone will bring easy counters.

Is there even a class thats meta and doesn’t have a anti Projectile option?

Having the option doesn't mean it's going to be brought to the fight. And since projectiles currently aren't strong enough to warrant a counter - you're not going to see Scourges drop a well or ToA to bring CPC or Guardians changing to drop their other group utility to include Sanctuary or WoF...

Ricochet wouldn't warrant those professions to change their utility setup, either.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I think you are greatly overestimating how many reflects/projectile destroys are brought to zerg fights. Warrior and Guardian bubbles are generally the only thing you have to worry about.Replacing Ankle Shots would be most logical. Adding its effect to Ankle Shots would be too much.

Simple WvW rule:

If a projectile based build becomes dangerous enough to make a difference, then it becomes automatically useless because people will bring extra projectile hate.

It is simply not possible for a Projectile build to shine in wvw.

If its bad then nobody cares.If its good then everyone will bring easy counters.

Is there even a class thats meta and doesn’t have a anti Projectile option?

Honestly the average enemy sees I'm deadeye and then spams reflects and projectile blocks, totally ignoring the fact I'm killing them with S/P. From a small scale point of view, I don't think it'll matter much xD

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@Turk.5460 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I think you are greatly overestimating how many reflects/projectile destroys are brought to zerg fights. Warrior and Guardian bubbles are generally the only thing you have to worry about.Replacing Ankle Shots would be most logical. Adding its effect to Ankle Shots would be too much.

Simple WvW rule:

If a projectile based build becomes dangerous enough to make a difference, then it becomes automatically useless because people will bring extra projectile hate.

It is simply not possible for a Projectile build to shine in wvw.

If its bad then nobody cares.If its good then everyone will bring easy counters.

Is there even a class thats meta and doesn’t have a anti Projectile option?

Having the option doesn't mean it's going to be brought to the fight. And since projectiles currently

aren't

strong enough to warrant a counter - you're not going to see Scourges drop a well or ToA to bring CPC or Guardians changing to drop their other group utility to include Sanctuary or WoF...

Ricochet wouldn't warrant those professions to change their utility setup, either.

"Having the option doesn't mean it's going to be brought to the fight"

Of KITTEN course not..... Did you read what i posted?--> I F <---

You want ricochet back so you can use it in WvW.Which means its either completely useless and nobody would play it OR it would be so good that everyone would simply bring Counters to it.

There is absolutly no way to bring that trait back and make it usefull in WvW zerg fights.

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I think you are greatly overestimating how many reflects/projectile destroys are brought to zerg fights. Warrior and Guardian bubbles are generally the only thing you have to worry about.Replacing Ankle Shots would be most logical. Adding its effect to Ankle Shots would be too much.

Simple WvW rule:

If a projectile based build becomes dangerous enough to make a difference, then it becomes automatically useless because people will bring extra projectile hate.

It is simply not possible for a Projectile build to shine in wvw.

If its bad then nobody cares.If its good then everyone will bring easy counters.

Is there even a class thats meta and doesn’t have a anti Projectile option?

Honestly the average enemy sees I'm deadeye and then spams reflects and projectile blocks, totally ignoring the fact I'm killing them with S/P. From a small scale point of view, I don't think it'll matter much xD

Projectiles in roaming = Good.Projectiles in zergfights = Realy Realy Bad

[Turk.5460]

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:There is absolutly no way to bring that trait back and make it usefull in WvW zerg fights.

Simply adding it back as it was before would make it useful. It doesn't have to become instantly META in order to have a use or be a fun tool to include more Thief players in large fights.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I think you are greatly overestimating how many reflects/projectile destroys are brought to zerg fights. Warrior and Guardian bubbles are generally the only thing you have to worry about.Replacing Ankle Shots would be most logical. Adding its effect to Ankle Shots would be too much.

Simple WvW rule:

If a projectile based build becomes dangerous enough to make a difference, then it becomes automatically useless because people will bring extra projectile hate.

It is simply not possible for a Projectile build to shine in wvw.

If its bad then nobody cares.If its good then everyone will bring easy counters.

Is there even a class thats meta and doesn’t have a anti Projectile option?

Having the option doesn't mean it's going to be brought to the fight. And since projectiles currently

aren't

strong enough to warrant a counter - you're not going to see Scourges drop a well or ToA to bring CPC or Guardians changing to drop their other group utility to include Sanctuary or WoF...

Ricochet wouldn't warrant those professions to change their utility setup, either.

"Having the option doesn't mean it's going to be brought to the fight"

Of KITTEN course not..... Did you read what i posted?--> I F <---

You want ricochet back so you can use it in WvW.Which means its either completely useless and nobody would play it OR it would be so good that everyone would simply bring Counters to it.

There is absolutly no way to bring that trait back and make it usefull in WvW zerg fights.

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I think you are greatly overestimating how many reflects/projectile destroys are brought to zerg fights. Warrior and Guardian bubbles are generally the only thing you have to worry about.Replacing Ankle Shots would be most logical. Adding its effect to Ankle Shots would be too much.

Simple WvW rule:

If a projectile based build becomes dangerous enough to make a difference, then it becomes automatically useless because people will bring extra projectile hate.

It is simply not possible for a Projectile build to shine in wvw.

If its bad then nobody cares.If its good then everyone will bring easy counters.

Is there even a class thats meta and doesn’t have a anti Projectile option?

Honestly the average enemy sees I'm deadeye and then spams reflects and projectile blocks, totally ignoring the fact I'm killing them with S/P. From a small scale point of view, I don't think it'll matter much xD

Projectiles in roaming = Good.Projectiles in zergfights = Realy Realy Bad

Not sure you understood, I was saying the average player reacts to the class rather than what they're actually being hit with, like a ranger spamming stone signet vs a condi thief.

[dDuff.3860]

Also make ricochet working with rifle projectiles.

Bouncing DJs, mmmm

[bq pd.2148]

@dDuff.3860 said:Also make ricochet working with rifle projectiles.

Bouncing DJs, mmmm

as 0 malice shot doesnt hurt much and only 1 target is marked, i guess it would be fine.then they just need to make rending shade steal boons on every hit of a stealth attack for pistol sneak attack ;)

[Isle of Stars.3049]

From what I can recall, a dev once mentioned that Ricochet will never be coming back due to the RNG nature of the bullet once it bounces on the target.

Trait - Expanding Pellets

"Pistol shots now shatters when it hit the target, dealing cone damage"

[bq pd.2148]

@"Isle of Stars.3049" said:From what I can recall, a dev once mentioned that Ricochet will never be coming back due to the RNG nature of the bullet once it bounces on the target.

Trait - Expanding Pellets

"Pistol shots now shatters when it hit the target, dealing cone damage"

there are other bouncing projectiles in the game i dont think its such an issue.if the RNG is an issue one could make it the nearest (unique) target.

[Isle of Stars.3049]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"Isle of Stars.3049" said:From what I can recall, a dev once mentioned that Ricochet will never be coming back due to the RNG nature of the bullet once it bounces on the target.

Trait - Expanding Pellets

"Pistol shots now shatters when it hit the target, dealing cone damage"

there are other bouncing projectiles in the game i dont think its such an issue.if the RNG is an issue one could make it the nearest (unique) target.

My thoughts exactly, even our Shortbow 1 has a bounce nature and yet it's still there.

[Tashigi.3159]

For P/P or any Pistol builds, yes. I've been asking for this for a while. It was a mistake to remove it to begin with.But please don't give them ideas about adding this to Rifle...

[Isle of Stars.3049]

Imagine a DJ with fully stacked Malice that ricochets. :s