(Spoiler) "Hidden" mount was a mistake and mounts in general need to be toned down.

[Dante.1763]

The gryphon is...look i love it and im glad i have it, but it does invalidate some stuff in PoF, sure some may say its a reward for the time/money gate it has, but i dont feel like i should be able to fly to the top of the "Sanctum of Nabkha" and totally invalidate the fact that i have the Doggo, but i totally just did.

[Despond.2174]

Yes it changes the game, and it's here to stay. So I am going to keep feeding my griffon tasty treats, then fly around all the maps while singing the theme song to "Never-ending Story".

[Chickenooble.5014]

@Despond.2174 said:Yes it changes the game, and it's here to stay. So I am going to keep feeding my griffon tasty treats, then fly around all the maps while singing the theme song to "Never-ending Story".Why would you sing that song on a Griffon? Falcor was a flying bubble-wrap dog.

[Dubbleyew.1029]

Why do you hate fun?If you're not being "challenged" enough, then simply don't use your mount in an area you want to be challenged in. No one's forcing you to use mounts in old maps. Why ruin it for everyone by removing content?Maybe some of us don't think it's fun to be stopped by the same mobs over and over when just trying to reach point B from A.

[TheOrlyFactor.8341]

@The Revenant.4970 said:

@Manimarco Devil.1790 said:Anyone can think of contrived situations where one mount

may

shine but in general the griffon is the best in a majority of cases a majority of the time. So unless Anet wants to keep making specific situations where another mount is optimal, the other mounts may as well not exist.

Yet...here we are...most people still using various other mounts besides the Griffon...

Can these forums stop crying over the most ludicrous things? Really?

That's expecting a lot. :V

[Blocki.4931]

@Dante.1763 said:The gryphon is...look i love it and im glad i have it, but it does invalidate some stuff in PoF, sure some may say its a reward for the time/money gate it has, but i dont feel like i should be able to fly to the top of the "Sanctum of Nabkha" and totally invalidate the fact that i have the Doggo, but i totally just did.

You can just jump to the portal that directly leads you to the end anyway, you just need the bunny inside the sanctum, jump up a pillar and on top of the right portal lol

[Theocraft.6053]

@TheOrlyFactor.8341 said:

@The Revenant.4970 said:

@Manimarco Devil.1790 said:Anyone can think of contrived situations where one mount

may

shine but in general the griffon is the best in a majority of cases a majority of the time. So unless Anet wants to keep making specific situations where another mount is optimal, the other mounts may as well not exist.

Yet...here we are...most people still using various other mounts besides the Griffon...

Can these forums stop crying over the most ludicrous things? Really?

That's expecting a lot. :V

basically this topic is just another whining because of gold wall I think, while 250 g isn't that much (2000 gem card or 10-15 hours of some lazy farm). Plus some people are just made to complain about everything, we all know such people... and they are also here

[Spurnshadow.3678]

I have no issue with the Griffon or how it's obtained. What I do have an issue with is that you're able to use it outside of PoF maps. There are people who didn't by PoF and they're being left behind. If you have a mount, you are able to get to the champs, events, whatever faster and stuff can be finished before non-PoF people can get there. That's a problem.

People say you're not able to skip content. There are lots of Vistas and other achievements designed around manuvering a difficult environment in HoT and Tyria. While mounts are disabled around most JPs, they aren't disabled around these things. That's skipping content.

[morsdood.1987]

exactly what WoW uses? what? no, not at all.

WoW flying mounts allow you to fly freely without effort, everywhere, from whatever starting point, GW2's griffon requires you to find a high place and make an effort to get around without just plummeting to the ground, they're not the same at all and if you truly think that then you haven't been paying attention.

[Theocraft.6053]

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:I have no issue with the Griffon or how it's obtained. What I do have an issue with is that you're able to use it outside of PoF maps. There are people who didn't by PoF and they're being left behind. If you have a mount, you are able to get to the champs, events, whatever faster and stuff can be finished before non-PoF people can get there. That's a problem.

that actually is indeed an issue. I think I saw a topic where somebody was encouraging ANet to provide a "basic" mount for everybody. While I am sure ANet has bigger heads than ours, I am quite convinced that this would help both new and old players, both without any expansions (yet) and with both of them.

[Myrdreth.6829]

@Theocraft.6053 said:

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:I have no issue with the Griffon or how it's obtained. What I do have an issue with is that you're able to use it outside of PoF maps. There are people who didn't by PoF and they're being left behind. If you have a mount, you are able to get to the champs, events, whatever faster and stuff can be finished before non-PoF people can get there. That's a problem.

that actually is indeed an issue. I think I saw a topic where somebody was encouraging ANet to provide a "basic" mount for everybody. While I am sure ANet has bigger heads than ours, I am quite convinced that this would help both new and old players, both without any expansions (yet) and with both of them.

Gliders are the same. I don't see the point. And skipping content like vistas. Seriously? I bet most people who got a griffon mount already completed the maps and all their POIs and Vistas and whatnot. Being able to use the mounts for exploring the map with their alts is a fun new experience.

If people don't want to feel left behind and want mounts too then just get PoF! It's not expensive and worth every cent. We don't pay monthly fees but every few years a new expansion comes out that adds something new to the game. Save up money for that. And don't whine and complain about Anet being creative and trying to add new fun things for the players. Ungrateful brats. Seriously. They need to make money somehow. "Just give us everything for free!". Whatever they do, people always complain.

[Hexyn.8462]

Firstly, I have the griffon it's fun however I somewhat agree with the OP, although I think it could of been better argued.

With the progression of movement abilities since HoT, Gliding and now mounts have a severe effect on content created before the expansion in which they arrived and potential design implication on any future content.

The great thing about HoT and PoF is that gliding didn't really have that much effect on the masteries of PoF, because both mastery systems were focused on the "joy of movement" and mounts being a little more powerful than gliding.

However, mounts are a really powerful movement tool, which will most certainly now always need to be factored into future updates otherwise there is a threat of trivializing content.. this is worrying because it also then becomes a defacto template for content, which would lead to stale content.

So far each expansion is modular, you don't need to own all of them to complete the latest, which means the design of the next expac should not factor in puzzles, or content that is gated by mount abilities; where does this leave ANET?

1. They will either have to decide to restrict the expac movement abilities to their respective expac
2. Each expac would need a more powerful movement abilities than the last (e.g. mounts being more powerful than gliding) which would become quite ridiculous throughout the releases.
3. They grant access to previous movement abilities when purchasing the latest expac. (making old expacs redundant)
4. They restrict new players from just jumping straight into new expacs that require old masteries to complete (never going to happen)

The only one that seems anywhere near feasible would be #1 in my opinion, restricting the masteries use to the relevant expansion (and core tyria as all players should of completed the 1-80 content already). This would be an unpopular move for many people, especially working hard to get these mounts then being denied access to this, however I can't see how the inclusion of this type of mastery system is going to be good for the game in the long run.

I hope they can innovate and come up with something that will be whole heartily accepted by the community, because I fear this type of design choice will have a butterfly effect.

[ugrakarma.9416]

probably the same crew that cried about HoT timers and now cry about new maps dont have meta-events, are the same crying about mounts and later will cry for game being "always the same thing". Mount dont need be nerfed, we need is a more powerful mounts yets, i hope new LS4 lets us mount Aurene.

[LazerusKI.7485]

I think the real problem isnt the Griffon, its the Springer.While yes the Griffon is Glider 2.0, Springer ruins most maps because of its jump.Other mounts with Horizontal movement are not a problem, but the springer changes everything. Vistas are no longer a challenge to get to, the fun to find the way is gone.Springer allows some insane shortcuts by jumping up hills or buildingsAnd of course breaking out of the map is pretty easy too

So i wonder how the next maps look like to keep the same old feeling of exploration...

[Menadena.7482]

@Vladish.3940 said:

@Menadena.7482 said:

@Nafets.1238 said:Can't hear you over my 20 seconds fly over Verdant Brink, Lion's Arch or Lornar's Pass. Can you repeat?

Thanks for giving all of us an example of why the griffon is way too powerful. The other mounts overpower some old content but also have their problems to compensate. The griffon? Just no. It is either now SOP or PVE is being broken into people who have it and people who do not as you will have a tougher time designing content that is equally challenging to both groups. Given the number of gates to get one and fully train it it is not reasonably achievable for a majority of the population.

I can fly from one end of the map to the other never touching ground for hours on my glider using leylines and updrafts. How is griffon more op than that? How is griffon invalidating content by doing something worse, than a glider that the content came with? You are just trolling now, aren't you?

Except for a few places not touching the ground does not do much for you. With the first 4 mounts I have to choose between advantages and weaknesses, a given situation may call for using several in a row in a short period of time. With griffon the advantages of multiple mounts get conflated into one and I would no longer have to dismount one thing and mount something else .... not just time but impossible in battle.

[Menadena.7482]

@Haishao.6851 said:

Q: What's new and different in Path of Fire that players will not have seen before? Why were these elements included?

O’Brien

: Path of Fire introduces mounts into the game, and it’s a return to the Crystal Desert, one of the most beloved places from the original Guild Wars.

When we decided to add mounts, we knew that we’d be taking them in a different direction than players had seen before. GW has always had fast travel, so adding mounts as a fast-travel mechanic isn’t particularly exciting.

Instead, we focused on giving each one a unique personality and way of moving through the world, so they become the ultimate expression of “joy of movement”, a new way to explore the world, and a companion. For example, the Springer and its incredible vertical jump can help you get to the top of a cliff, while the Raptor can cross great distances in a single leap.

Another cool thing about the mounts is that you can take them back to other open-world zones that weren’t ever designed for mounts. You can leap up to the top of a tower that was never supposed to be climbable. You can cross over hills that were supposed to be impassable. You could find a brand new way to get to some of your favorite places too.

It feels almost overpowered, and it could take you to places that weren’t intended to support player exploration, but it’s just fun. It’s a whole new way to see the world.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hnewman/2017/09/22/arenanet-president-qa-on-guild-wars-anniversary-and-path-of-fire/#4cfd9cd1b021

The past few days I have been exploring DR in the last few minutes before reset. All sorts of fun to find places the designers clearly never intended people to be (this house only needs a front, we can expose the ground here). It has gotten me some confused looks from my spouse though when I jump off of something and kill my mount in the process.

[Menadena.7482]

@Hexyn.8462 said:Firstly, I have the griffon it's fun however I somewhat agree with the OP, although I think it could of been better argued.

With the progression of movement abilities since HoT, Gliding and now mounts have a severe effect on content created before the expansion in which they arrived and potential design implication on any future content.

The great thing about HoT and PoF is that gliding didn't really have that much effect on the masteries of PoF, because both mastery systems were focused on the "joy of movement" and mounts being a little more powerful than gliding.

However, mounts are a really powerful movement tool, which will most certainly now always need to be factored into future updates otherwise there is a threat of trivializing content.. this is worrying because it also then becomes a defacto template for content, which would lead to stale content.

So far each expansion is modular, you don't need to own all of them to complete the latest, which means the design of the next expac should not factor in puzzles, or content that is gated by mount abilities; where does this leave ANET?

1. They will either have to decide to restrict the expac movement abilities to their respective expac
2. Each expac would need a more powerful movement abilities than the last (e.g. mounts being more powerful than gliding) which would become quite ridiculous throughout the releases.
3. They grant access to previous movement abilities when purchasing the latest expac. (making old expacs redundant)
4. They restrict new players from just jumping straight into new expacs that require old masteries to complete (never going to happen)

The only one that seems anywhere near feasible would be #1 in my opinion, restricting the masteries use to the relevant expansion (and core tyria as all players should of completed the 1-80 content already). This would be an unpopular move for many people, especially working hard to get these mounts then being denied access to this, however I can't see how the inclusion of this type of mastery system is going to be good for the game in the long run.

I hope they can innovate and come up with something that will be whole heartily accepted by the community, because I fear this type of design choice will have a butterfly effect.

Yes, I do not envy the designers of future maps. Content in it has to account for anyone having one or more of the current and previous masteries. Already maps have to assume players may or may not have gliding, any of the 5 mounts, and the new downed skill. Then you have the core tyria masteries, but the only revolutionary one there for general PVE is autoloot and that whole track.

[Menadena.7482]

@LazerusKI.7485 said:I think the real problem isnt the Griffon, its the Springer.While yes the Griffon is Glider 2.0, Springer ruins most maps because of its jump.Other mounts with Horizontal movement are not a problem, but the springer changes everything. Vistas are no longer a challenge to get to, the fun to find the way is gone.Springer allows some insane shortcuts by jumping up hills or buildingsAnd of course breaking out of the map is pretty easy too

So i wonder how the next maps look like to keep the same old feeling of exploration...

I am not sad to see those vistas lose their 'edge'. Many of them are hugely annoying if you do not do JPs for one reason or another, which is optional content.

[Falcord.3608]

You guys lack some serious empathy when you ask with a straight face for paid content to be removed, when it may have impacted other people's decision to buy an expansion.

It's not going to happen. You may dislike the direction that ANet went with mounts but that's the new landscape, there is no way they can revert content that was clearly advertised (and yes, we have known that mounts would be in core tyria for a while now, and while Griffon was not part of the promotional material, it has been out and associated to a paid expansion; it's appearance in core tyria maps is advertisement enough). If they were to take them out of tyria maps, I would stop supporting the game immediately, as they were the main/only reason why I purchased PoF. I'm not alone in this.

So here is my suggestion: Relax. Make your own fun. If you think mounts trivialize content, don't use mounts. Find a guild with like minded people. If you are still angry that other people can be more efficient than you, I'm not sure what to tell you at this point. There are also people that can convert gems into thousands of gold at the flick of a credit card, and you have been living with that for longer.

[ugrakarma.9416]

more "effective" on core tyria is a joke...Anet created some Map Completion Race that i didnt noticed in 3 years?Who cares about whos have some Vistas on Core Tyria? the only difficult one in Core Tyria is the one on big tower on Orr.Core Tyria is basically some farm trains in Orr, SilverWastes, World Boss Trains, then Anet introduced some "Side Quests" that revitalized some maps.Surely Someone able to complete Griffon quest on new maps, probably same ppl able to farm LS3 complex quest, for them the Core Tyria Vistas is nothing.

The most played content of Core Tyria is without doubt the Silverwastes, where is already a thick, flat map, where mounts have no impact.

No ones cares about u small world of getting a simples vista in DR, 80% of Core Tyria is probably on SW farming chests. No one care.

[Demeth.5816]

OP is overeactif AF but he got a point. Why bother developing 4 mounts if the 5th is just way better. Talk about power creep...

[Demeth.5816]

@bOTEB.1573 said:Try skip content with the griffon when u start from the ground. The griffon is basically an upgraded glider - you can't fly with it, just the angle of falling is smaller. How can you even compare it with WoW mount that can fly upwards, like forever? Even if you are on a hill you still can't use its speed boost - you need to be a lot higher. So it is even slower than the raptor or the jackal.

The griffon CAN fly upward. Stop saying that.

[kharmin.7683]

Who needs mounts anymore? Just use this to skip content.

[Dezzie.5903]

As a person who has only recently returned to the game and am spending the bulk of my time in the "vanilla" zones my only concern with mounts is how they are trivializing puzzles. I've seen players jumping up through Dark Reverie and bypassing most of the puzzle. But maybe ANet saw this coming and decided "meh". shrugs

[Lyrim.2873]

@"Manimarco Devil.1790" said:The griffon mount needs to be removed. This is exactly the type of mount of WoW uses and it kills content. People are allowed to bypass too much by using them. Ground mounts are more prone to being attacked and stopped via things like tar traps. Flying bypasses everything and will only make future content warped in order to accommodate it. Flying effectively renders the other mounts obsolete. Why raptor jump or skimmer when you can simply fly? (The bunny and jackal are still somewhat protected as the bunny can increase vertical distance more quickly and the jackal can use sand portals.) The meager counterargument is that the griffon cannot go past its initial height. But with the bunny and griffon one can bypass a majority of the map. (reach nearby high point -> fly) Mounts and gliding may add some amount of fun but they have also succeeded in removing any challenge the z-axis provided in this game. Mounts need to be more specific to dealing with environmental challenges and less about going 100mph past everything.

Actually, no, it's not "exacly the type of mount that WoW uses".... It's a glorified glider that is simply more efficient and more interesting. Instead of a (let's say) 70% glide efficiency, the griffon has an 80-90% efficiency depending on your skill of using it's abilities. Stop whining about mounts... This is a good change. I don't know why you enjoy taking 20 minutes to go from one side of a zone to the other...