Anet, are we really ok with how frustrating condi mirage it is to fight?

[Crinn.7864]

@Shivvies.3921 said:I will never understand the Mirage hate. It is SUPPOSED to be frustrating to deal with a Mirage.

Which is precisely why the class shouldn't exist. We aren't being payed to play this game, we are here to have a enjoyable experience. But then Anet goes in puts in things like Mirage just to make sure nobody ever plays more than a couple matches before ragequitting.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Shivvies.3921 said:I will never understand the Mirage hate. It is SUPPOSED to be frustrating to deal with a Mirage.

Which is precisely why the class shouldn't exist. We aren't being payed to play this game, we are here to have a enjoyable experience. But then Anet goes in puts in things like Mirage just to make sure nobody ever plays more than a couple matches before ragequitting.

Character whose is extremely difficult to read or deceptive is a staple of almost every single PvP game ever made. I name dropped a few of them earlier. Can name a dozen more off the top of my head.

[Shivvies.3921]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@"Shivvies.3921" said:I will never understand the Mirage hate. It is SUPPOSED to be frustrating to deal with a Mirage.

Which is precisely why the class shouldn't exist. We aren't being payed to play this game, we are here to have a enjoyable experience. But then Anet goes in puts in things like Mirage just to make sure nobody ever plays more than a couple matches before ragequitting.

Character whose is extremely difficult to read or deceptive is a staple of almost every single PvP game ever made. I name dropped a few of them earlier.

I think Crinn and I have different meanings for the word "frustrating."

I do think a class being very difficult to read (lol Mirage is NOT difficult to read at all if you spent time to play one for one hour) is amazing.

Mirage is not overpowered because of the reasons counted above.

Cheers!

[TorQ.7041]

Tbh it's kinda pointless to point stuff out. Die hard mirage players can justify anything you put. If they make it a 1 button. 1 shot they will prob still come to it's defense

It's best to just play this over powered spec your self and just farm pipes either it. To the person who said mirage is hard ? they must be in some bronze league. An inspiration Condi mirage can straight up carry u to gold 3.

Alternatively u can play specs that kill mirages like holos. I started playing DE and Holo specifically just to smash these kitten over and over. Feels good.

[Xstein.2187]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@"Shivvies.3921" said:I will never understand the Mirage hate. It is SUPPOSED to be frustrating to deal with a Mirage.

Which is precisely why the class shouldn't exist. We aren't being payed to play this game, we are here to have a enjoyable experience. But then Anet goes in puts in things like Mirage just to make sure nobody ever plays more than a couple matches before ragequitting.

Mesmer isn't suppose to be frustrating, its suppose to confuse your opponent and make them think. Unfortunately, the backlash from the gw2 HoT maps shows thinking really isn't gw2's player base's strong suit, at least for the majority. Ultimately, for them, thinking = frustration.

Apologies for the lack political correctness. Obviously some may feel they have problems with mirage for reasons other than what I mentioned above, but for the majority it holds true. Hence, mesmer will either never be balanced or there will forever be an endless wave of cries (or a balance or alteration between the two).

From gw2 wiki on mesmer:"Mesmers are masters of mirage. They weave deception magic that seeks to confound, disorient and dumbfound their enemies."This doesn't say anything about frustrating their enemies.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Fortus.6175 said:I was under the impression that conditions should SLOWLY build up over time, which on mirage are pretty much spammable. However, my biggest gripe with mirage is that the constant untargetablility, blind spam and stealth plus blinks makes them very hard to fight. You have VERY small windows of time before they disappear again, in which time you first have to take blinds away, to then try to land a shot, all that while having SEVERAL stacks of confusion.

Whether or not it is balanced, it is very frustrating to fight agaisnt and it feels like an uphill battle with just about any specc that isnt HEAVILY deep in condi cleanses, and even then.... Please revise the specc, remove some of the frustrating part, a good start is putting an ICD on the blinding, right now fighting a mirage is constant blind after blind after blind after blind.

Seriously...people still complaining about mirage..for the love of god..it's obvious it will be scaled down ( for a while ) when next expansion launch, there he will become some 100% meta in a game mode along side chronomancer...I thought it was obvious to people by now that mesmer/engi will be always faceroll duellist with necro being faceroll aoe spammer and guardian being the super tank..it has been so for the last 5-6 years....you should accept reality

[mortrialus.3062]

I'd like to reiterate that I don't know why people are complaining about Mirages when every single game has anywhere from 2-4 boonbeasts in it, and boonbeast counters anything that tries to 1v1 it including condi mirage.

[Luna.6203]

@"mortrialus.3062" said:I'd like to reiterate that I don't know why people are complaining about Mirages when every single game has anywhere from 2-4 boonbeasts in it, and boonbeast counters anything that tries to 1v1 it including condi mirage.

I think it's because of condi damage. too much for people to handle it. depend on build and profession ...and all annoyance retargeting and porting. "invisible dodge"fighting boonbeast is strait forward .. you know exactly what's going on and whats come next and how to counter.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Luna.6203 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:I'd like to reiterate that I don't know why people are complaining about Mirages when every single game has anywhere from 2-4 boonbeasts in it, and boonbeast counters anything that tries to 1v1 it including condi mirage.

I think it's because of condi damage. too much for people to handle it. depend on build and profession ...and all annoyance retargeting and porting. "invisible dodge"fighting boonbeast is strait forward .. you know exactly what's going on and whats come next and

how to counter

.

Again, nothing counters boonbeast.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Luna.6203 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:I'd like to reiterate that I don't know why people are complaining about Mirages when every single game has anywhere from 2-4 boonbeasts in it, and boonbeast counters anything that tries to 1v1 it including condi mirage.

I think it's because of condi damage. too much for people to handle it. depend on build and profession ...and all annoyance retargeting and porting. "invisible dodge"fighting boonbeast is strait forward .. you know exactly what's going on and whats come next and

how to counter

.

Again, nothing counters boonbeast.

Actually 2v1 counters Boonbeast. It can't survive focus in the way that things like Condi Mirage or Spellbreaker can. In other words you can actually kill it. I think that's why not as many complain about Boonbeast.

[tinyreborn.1938]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Luna.6203 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:I'd like to reiterate that I don't know why people are complaining about Mirages when every single game has anywhere from 2-4 boonbeasts in it, and boonbeast counters anything that tries to 1v1 it including condi mirage.

I think it's because of condi damage. too much for people to handle it. depend on build and profession ...and all annoyance retargeting and porting. "invisible dodge"fighting boonbeast is strait forward .. you know exactly what's going on and whats come next and

how to counter

.

Again, nothing counters boonbeast.

Actually 2v1 counters Boonbeast. It can't survive focus in the way that things like Condi Mirage or Spellbreaker can. In other words you can actually kill it. I think that's why not as many complain about Boonbeast.

Everyone die in 1x2 ,thats depends on cds and who plus you, you even know what you talking about there?Everyone hate soulboon but they dont go QQ on forum like those who getting farmed by mesmers on daily basis

[Solori.6025]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Luna.6203 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:I'd like to reiterate that I don't know why people are complaining about Mirages when every single game has anywhere from 2-4 boonbeasts in it, and boonbeast counters anything that tries to 1v1 it including condi mirage.

I think it's because of condi damage. too much for people to handle it. depend on build and profession ...and all annoyance retargeting and porting. "invisible dodge"fighting boonbeast is strait forward .. you know exactly what's going on and whats come next and

how to counter

.

Again, nothing counters boonbeast.

Actually 2v1 counters Boonbeast.

I thought this suggestion was a bad one since every time people brought this up about mesmer it was immediately met with something a long the lines of "X class shouldn't require 2 people just to kill it" or something along those lines.

Even better example.Scourge post release died when focused.People still cried rivers about it.

[mortrialus.3062]

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Luna.6203 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:I'd like to reiterate that I don't know why people are complaining about Mirages when every single game has anywhere from 2-4 boonbeasts in it, and boonbeast counters anything that tries to 1v1 it including condi mirage.

I think it's because of condi damage. too much for people to handle it. depend on build and profession ...and all annoyance retargeting and porting. "invisible dodge"fighting boonbeast is strait forward .. you know exactly what's going on and whats come next and

how to counter

.

Again, nothing counters boonbeast.

Actually 2v1 counters Boonbeast. It can't survive focus in the way that things like Condi Mirage or Spellbreaker can. In other words you can actually kill it. I think that's why not as many complain about Boonbeast.

Everyone die in 1x2 ,thats depends on cds and who plus you, you even know what you talking about there?Everyone hate soulboon but they dont go QQ on forum like those who getting farmed by mesmers on daily basis

Most people don't seem to recognize boonbeast when they see it in my experience. They understand it's a soulbeast, but they don't understand what it does how it operates and tend to spout "Wow how'd that ranger get all the boons?" and then feed them all game long.

[tinyreborn.1938]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Luna.6203 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:I'd like to reiterate that I don't know why people are complaining about Mirages when every single game has anywhere from 2-4 boonbeasts in it, and boonbeast counters anything that tries to 1v1 it including condi mirage.

I think it's because of condi damage. too much for people to handle it. depend on build and profession ...and all annoyance retargeting and porting. "invisible dodge"fighting boonbeast is strait forward .. you know exactly what's going on and whats come next and

how to counter

.

Again, nothing counters boonbeast.

Actually 2v1 counters Boonbeast. It can't survive focus in the way that things like Condi Mirage or Spellbreaker can. In other words you can actually kill it. I think that's why not as many complain about Boonbeast.

Everyone die in 1x2 ,thats depends on cds and who plus you, you even know what you talking about there?Everyone hate soulboon but they dont go QQ on forum like those who getting farmed by mesmers on daily basis

Most people don't seem to recognize boonbeast when they see it in my experience. They understand it's a soulbeast, but they don't understand what it does how it operates and tend to spout "Wow how'd that ranger get all the boons?" and then feed them all game long.

Consume plasma is insanely broken . Always been. But anet for god know what reason buff it 3 more times . Aside all boons for 10 seconds BASE that affected by BOON DURATION its got ALACRITY/QUICKNESS/RESISTANCE . Nature magic give pet all boons that ranger gain and he consume his pet to gain all boons from the pet resulting in insane amount of all boons that making them monsters and 25 might on top of that... Thieves with 4 plasma ...lets not think about it

[apharma.3741]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Fortus.6175 said:

@FaboBabo.3581 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Condi Mirage feels broken because there are only a handful of builds in the game that can actually deal with them. All of the other builds/classes actually can't deal with them at all in any way. This creates an effect where the Condi Mirage effects the intra-class dynamic in special ways that other classes do not. In shorter words, the Condi Mirage is the biggest culprit that pushes otherwise viable specs completely out of play because it is able to counter them so hard, that those specs become useless in games where a Condi Mirage is present.

The above effect is mainly due to:

• Condi Mirage having too much burst and attrition, with a mixture of power and condi damage. Only a handful of builds are even capable of out bruising a Condi Mirage on a node to make it run. These are the builds being played by people who say "Fighting Condi Mirage is a l2p issue."
• Too much chase potential. Nothing in the game can escape a Condi Mirage that actually wants to kill you, aside from stealth spam. So that effect I mentioned: If you aren't playing one of the classes that can out bruise the Condi Mirage, you lose because you can't even out mobility or run from as counter play.
• Too much disengage potential. Nothing in the game can solo chase and kill a Condi Mirage that actually wants to live. Between stealth, 4x ground target teleports, and portal entre, you would need 1 person like a Herald "who has great chase potential" to actually pressure the Mirage while it is teleporting around the map, and then have a couple guys camp the first portal so that when it tries to portal back after kiting Herald away, they can jump it. It's like a 2 to 3 man job to kill a Condi Mirage who knows how to survive. The same cannot be said for any build in the game, outside old bunker specs in previous metas where DPS was significantly lower. So the effect I mentioned again: There is no special counter spec to be devised that is somehow good at chasing and eliminating Condi Mirage more quickly than some other build. It can kite everything equally as well as anything else.
• So what happens is, if you cannot just "bully it off node or out bruise it" there is no reason to chase it or run from it. This leaves a very small margin of viable builds to play that do not get hard countered by Condi Mirage.

So in the end it's not that Condi Mirage is overpowered. We aren't necessarily looking at an overpowered spec here. We are looking at a spec that is THE NON-META CRUSHER. Holosmiths can be disengaged or chased and played around with sheer mobility. Reapers can be highly out mobilized and countered by rando off meta ranged. Firebrands can be bursted down by the most random off meta power DPS. Ect Ect, all other meta specs can actually be countered by ultra random off meta deviations, which is good actually and balanced play. But Condi Mirage, if you can't out-bruise it with statistical attribute tied methods, there is no counter play to it. <- This my friends is exactly WHERE Condi Mirage is broken, and where it needs patching.

I highly urge Arenanet to change Jaunt to a 2 ammo skill, or to significantly increase the CD of jaunt ammo. This would eliminate a bit of Mirage mobility, its chase/disengage, and make more room for counter play around the Mirage for those specs that cannot statistically stand toe to toe with it. The reason why this is so important is because right now, if a spec who cannot stand toe to toe tries to run, the Condi Mirage can keep the fight on him and force him into the fight due to way too much mobility. I'll guarantee you that this is largely the reason why so many people complain about Condi Mirage.

1 : Those are the builds, that well - counter Mirage.2: Where would u wanna run to? Are we in WvW? Communicate with Teammates.3: Play 4 mid 1 far , win over 4 mid cause Mes is bad at Team fighting - use the win.4: U could stop double dodging in Plat+ , while i Stand still and my clones attack only.

So since we're talking about frustration ; I think its frustrating that one Class can provide itself 100% boon uptime on 8-10 insanely strong Boons. Even More Frustrating if 50% of all classes got more endurance Regen then the Dodge Spec of Mes. Veeeery Frustrating if people call out "broken blocks and blinds" if i play axe/torch and sword/sword illu/inspi/mirage.

You got me right ? THOSE MAD BLINDS - oh wait cut the last S , but those mad BLOCKS - oh wait cut the last S.

*looks at profile picture, mirage, alrighty"

Look man, the capability of mirages to jerk people around a point is insanely strong. You DO have blind

S

, every shatter is one. Just to put into reference how insanely strong that is, a grandmaster trait on ele applies blind to ONE target, on burn, 8 secs ICD, meanwhile, mesmer has a non-grandmaster which applies AoE blinds on each shatter (and you have more than one).

Right now they are frustrating to play agaisnt, they teleport around all the time, can get better positioning, chase you or port out until the fire subsides. Honestly, it takes the effort of several people to get one mesmer down, if at all, most of the time you are lucky if you can push it away for long enough before it contest the point again. I know 2 people who like me are in platinum, they got there playing mirage, the moment they play anything else, they get frustrated because "wow no blinds uptime, so little burst, cant toy people around". The build is virtually carrying them when they barely ever play mesmers.

In all fairness Mr Boyer has been complaining about mesmer for something like 5 years and seems to think it was balanced when literally every mesmer player was switching to thief because mesmer was inferior in every way and shouldn't have ever won a 1v1 vs anyone else. I think you can find some of them on the archive forum, yes it's all there forever. He's not the only one either.

Are there issues with mirage? Sure but try walking a mile in a mesmers shoes first and see what is actually the problem. That means actually playing it for an evening, maybe spend another evening trying out different builds too, I've played plenty of facerollosmith, spellbreaker, thief, firebrand, scourge, ele and revenant to understand the way they function and at least the basic interactions of skills. I do try to play ranger but it's not my favourite, I still force myself to play it for an evening every now and then and duel my friends.

Changing torment to bleeds/poisons would probably solve most issues.

Edit: Also remember that most people are playing "Tramawar" which doesn't take condition cleanses really, holosmith likewise switched from it's condition clearing anticorrosive plating to quickness spam, rev has always been weak to condi. Even condi mirage is weak to condi atm. Pretty much every build in the meta has traded condition clears for MOAR POWA!!! Why? Well because power damage is so insane atm, you just spam spam spam and people die. Not just my opinion either:

https://clips.twitch.tv/IcyOutstandingYamStinkyCheese

Edit2: I forgot tramawar runs shake it off still which is 2x 6 condition cleanses but I've seen some forgo it. However I do stand corrected, they have a fair amount of cleanses.

I'm actually one of the people who complains the least about any class at all. Seriously, go back through my forum post history in my profile. I generally make posts concerning issues about win trading and overall match making performance, or how the intra-class dynamic feels.

What you are noticing is that my few comments about any class at all, generally are memorable and receive many upvotes.

I never said anything about the frequency of your complaints just that you have been complaining about mesmer for 5 years and generally rate them as stronger than most people rate them.

You complaining about chronomancer buffs to utilities that had nothing to do with chrono and were not used in any meta chrono build at the time (was before phantasm rework).

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Chronomancer-Buffs-Across-Board

You complaining power mesmer which was trash can garbage at the time was OP

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Non-meta-broken-builds

Two from 2015 but this is back when there was a different meta and not everything was really known. Some people agree, some don't, there's a few from this period.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/how-to-tell-if-i-am-a-good-player

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/So-um-memsers-seem-brokenly-OP/page/5

I'll be honest I skimmed through a bit, I'll admit, you do complain about matchmaking far more than any class, I mean it's something like 90% of your posts from 2017 and quite a few from before.

Also likes and popularity does not indicate you're right, I would have thought the world learnt about that from 1930-1980.

Edit: Forum archive kinda bugs out going back past 2015 so, I guess not 5 years, only about 4 that we can see.

Ok

If you look at the 1st link that you posted and scroll down to my second post, you'll see that I clarify the point of that post. It was more in the spirit of "Why are we power creeping instead of balancing?" If you keep reading on, you'll see that I am concerned with the power creep game wide, and not so much mesmers.

I'm not sure why you even exampled the 2nd link at all if you were trying to prove that I complain about mesmers and say they are OP. If you had scrolled down to read any of my comments at all, you'd have noticed that they all looked like this. I didn't say it was OP at all, quite the opposite:

• GS Power Mesmer is underpowered vs. DPS specs. GS Power Mesmer is strong as all hell against anything that is supposed to be bunker. Bunkers can’t deal the DPS they need to pressure the Mesmer. The Mesmer however, can stealth 1 shot bunkers. Again, more lopsided balance. Power Mesmer not broken in the aspect of being OP. It’s broken that the spec isn’t more balanced in general for its role & purpose. It either gets immediate stomped or immediate stomps something else. It’s a volatile spec and I wouldn’t necessarily call it high risk high reward. I would more refer to it as a suicide bomb build.

In the 3rd link you example, a guy asks "how can he tell if he is a good player?" I made one comment in that entire thread, which I fail to see why you would take the time to headhunt something like this, in light of recent and previous actual Mesmer hate, that riddles this subforum page after page after page. I feel like the point you're trying to make about me being a forum user who is all over mesmers, kind of pales in comparison to the kinds of things other users post and say. Here was my comment:

• One thing is for sure. Do not play Mesmer. It is a terrible gauge for if you are good or not. The class itself will carry you post June 23rd 2015.

In the 4th link you example, I had joined a conversation about what had happened after 6/23/2015. This was the notorious patch that began the downfall of what we had achieved with balance during core. It was the patch that changed condi and began allowing condis like burn to stack, as well as many other blotchy power creeps in weird places. And then before they polished that out, they went ahead and dropped HoT expansion elite specs right on top of it. This post was made in the short timeframe between that 6/23/2015 patch and the release of HoT. The reason why players were complaining about Mantra Mesmers is because the Mantra CDs were already broken. You remember, when the CD would begin its timer before even using the Mantras. This was not intended by Arenanet and it did make Mesmers overboard, even right before HoT, Core Mesmer was broken in this aspect and that's why everyone was running Mantras. When HoT dropped Chrono on us... this is why the Chronobunker came into existance, the broken Mantra CDs. <- This build was and still is hailed as the most broken spec that Arenanet ever let out of the gate. I made one comment in that thread about Mesmers and low and behold as we look back at Chronobunkers in that era, you can see that this comment was cooked up and served well deserved:

• Mantra Mesmer is indeed severely overboard OP at the moment. Top DPS Burster. Top sustain class. Top CC class. Top stealthing/disengagement. Has no hard-counter. Literally the best option for all conquest jobs ~ point holder ~ peeler ~ burster. You do the pros & cons yourself. There is no doubt that Mantra Mesmer was given too much on June 23rd 2015.

If you're trying to prove that I'm a forum user who is on and on about mesmers too much, if this is the best you can dig up on me going back to 2015, all I can say to you is that maybe next time you should respond to the discussion directly instead of attempting to attack & discredit other forum users.

1. Then you should word your statements with more care, almost everyone called you out on how silly the first post was and the follow up looked more like someone back peddling when they know they goofed.
2. You were complaining power mesmer was broken despite it holding no place in the meta and easily countered at the time + we'd had 3 years of the same burst combo by that point.
3. Mantra mesmer was only broken because because recharge started after casting instead of after final use. Once that was fixed it was much easier to manage...that and ANet removed the core mantra trait to it before hand as a knee jerk instead of fixing bugs first, ironically they've added a stronger trait in it's place by now.
4. See above, the skills weren't working as intended. I try to refrain from calling something OP until I can figure it out, prime example is the recent tormenting runes, I held off whether I think they're too strong till after they fixed them healing off all conditions, turns out they're not that good. You fix bugs then you assess, not call it OP, ask for nerfs and ignore the bugs that enable it to be OP.

You can go through the current forum and find examples of similar complaints against condition mirage where the complaints are poorly directed. The problem with mirage is the ambush skills apply WAY TOO MUCH condition stacks. In terms of vigor uptime only necro (elite spec for elite spec) has worse so unless you pick desert distortion you have a lot less dodges than everyone else even with double energy and adventure runes. Current mirage is actually weak to conditions, the problem is there's only 2 condition builds in the meta atm because every other build does insane power damage.

The biggest problem with mirage is the same as when core sceptre/torch PU mesmer was the best roamer in WvW, the same as when condi chrono was considered too strong before the first round of condition nerfs and that is it stacks too much torment and it can stack torment WITH confusion. In a game where combat is so mobile and certainly in a meta where rotations are the deciding factor conditions like torment are incredibly punishing. The strength of the mirage condi bomb is in getting a good amount of torment on the person and then hitting them with some high amounts of confusion so if they cleanse they take lots of damage from confusion, if they dodge the confusion application they take lots of damage from the torment.

Catch 22.

Edit: As tinyreborn.1938 pointed out to me, some cleanses will remove the confusion without triggering damage but not every cleanse works this way and not every way of cleansing won't trigger confusion. You would ofc then bomb some confusion after if you could as you have axes of symmetry and cry of frustration that can stack high, use one to then land the other in the aftercast of the cleanse.

Oh and something worth mentioning Imaginary axes will still hit a thief that's in the middle of pistol whip, there might be issues with it hitting through dodge. More testing is needed as it's a weird skill.

[apharma.3741]

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Luna.6203 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:I'd like to reiterate that I don't know why people are complaining about Mirages when every single game has anywhere from 2-4 boonbeasts in it, and boonbeast counters anything that tries to 1v1 it including condi mirage.

I think it's because of condi damage. too much for people to handle it. depend on build and profession ...and all annoyance retargeting and porting. "invisible dodge"fighting boonbeast is strait forward .. you know exactly what's going on and whats come next and

how to counter

.

Again, nothing counters boonbeast.

Actually 2v1 counters Boonbeast. It can't survive focus in the way that things like Condi Mirage or Spellbreaker can. In other words you can actually kill it. I think that's why not as many complain about Boonbeast.

Everyone die in 1x2 ,thats depends on cds and who plus you, you even know what you talking about there?Everyone hate soulboon but they dont go QQ on forum like those who getting farmed by mesmers on daily basis

Most people don't seem to recognize boonbeast when they see it in my experience. They understand it's a soulbeast, but they don't understand what it does how it operates and tend to spout "Wow how'd that ranger get all the boons?" and then feed them all game long.

Consume plasma is insanely broken . Always been. But anet for god know what reason buff it 3 more times . Aside all boons for 10 seconds BASE that affected by BOON DURATION its got ALACRITY/QUICKNESS/RESISTANCE . Nature magic give pet all boons that ranger gain and he consume his pet to gain all boons from the pet resulting in insane amount of all boons that making them monsters and 25 might on top of that... Thieves with 4 plasma ...lets not think about it

Yep which is why I would be interested in seeing consume plasma toned down to maybe 5-6 boons, vigor, protection, aegis, fury and swiftness. Maybe add resistance so thief can still retain condition management. No doubt ANet will make pigs forage "lesser consume plasma" and it'll be the same but halved duration or something.

[tinyreborn.1938]

@"apharma.3741" said:Yep which is why I would be interested in seeing consume plasma toned down to maybe 5-6 boons, vigor, protection, aegis, fury and swiftness. Maybe add resistance so thief can still retain condition management. No doubt ANet will make pigs forage "lesser consume plasma" and it'll be the same but halved duration or something.I'm afraid they dont care and seeing no problems in consume plasma being beyond broken (why they buffed it so many times otherwise?).Good idea ... would be ignored :)

[Luna.6203]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Luna.6203 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:I'd like to reiterate that I don't know why people are complaining about Mirages when every single game has anywhere from 2-4 boonbeasts in it, and boonbeast counters anything that tries to 1v1 it including condi mirage.

I think it's because of condi damage. too much for people to handle it. depend on build and profession ...and all annoyance retargeting and porting. "invisible dodge"fighting boonbeast is strait forward .. you know exactly what's going on and whats come next and

how to counter

.

Again, nothing counters boonbeast.

Well im playing spellbreaker old school one with defence and semi def trinket and overall im really thought against power damage... you can only argue that i haven't meed good one yet. But i dare to say i dont have problem with boonbeast. Also i have over 500 pvp matches played with ranger so i know very well how to fight them.

On other hand condi mirage is real pain. They are near untouchable.Even if you counter/block very well.. im still behind with mobility and their presure is longer than my def CDs. I can only delay inevitable or wait for some mayor mistakes.

I thing "def-breaker" can fight and win against any power based classes. Change my mind ;)

[Fortus.6175]

@Luna.6203 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Luna.6203 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:I'd like to reiterate that I don't know why people are complaining about Mirages when every single game has anywhere from 2-4 boonbeasts in it, and boonbeast counters anything that tries to 1v1 it including condi mirage.

I think it's because of condi damage. too much for people to handle it. depend on build and profession ...and all annoyance retargeting and porting. "invisible dodge"fighting boonbeast is strait forward .. you know exactly what's going on and whats come next and

how to counter

.

Again, nothing counters boonbeast.

Well im playing spellbreaker old school one with defence and semi def trinket and overall im really thought against power damage... you can only argue that i haven't meed good one yet. But i dare to say i dont have problem with boonbeast. Also i have over 500 pvp matches played with ranger so i know very well how to fight them.

On other hand condi mirage is real pain. They are near untouchable.Even if you counter/block very well.. im still behind with mobility and their presure is longer than my def CDs. I can only delay inevitable or wait for some mayor mistakes.

I thing "def-breaker" can fight and win against any power based classes. Change my mind ;)

Basically the onus is on them to mess up often times. And that goes for pretty much almost every build who isnt a condi clear bot. The build is intrinsically oppressing, and I know the game isn't balanced around 1v1, but if one build, can take over 80% of the entire roster in the game, and for the remaining 20% it is a stalemate, then perhaps there is something wrong with it.

[SPESHAL.9106]

@Fortus.6175 said:

Basically the onus is on them to mess up often times. And that goes for pretty much almost every build who isnt a condi clear bot. The build is intrinsically oppressing, and I know the game isn't balanced around 1v1, but if one build, can take over 80% of the entire roster in the game, and for the remaining 20% it is a stalemate, then perhaps there is something wrong with it.

What's even worse is that this is the situation AFTER Mesmer required THREE in season nerfs. The fact that it took them THREE in season nerfs PLUS more in a balance patch after the season speaks volumes. Initially, they must've thought everyone else was wrong about Mesmer. That's why it took them 3 meager tries during the season PLUS a balance patch, yet we are STILL at this point of OP Mesmer builds with low risk/high reward.

Unsurprisingly, mesmer apologists were whining about THOSE nerfs and saying it was just L2P. Anet clearly isn't testing things internally (this was evidenced with the recent Rune of Sanctuary) and they have proved to be far behind what the playerbase notices with Mesmer. However, what's shocking is that they will hotfix certain things while treating other things with kid gloves forever.