Condi mesmer still no nerf

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@everyman.4375 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Kilar.4791 said:

@everyman.4375 said:There's already another post saying the exact same thing and 2000 saying relatively the same thing so why do you feel the need to create another post ?I think you should just ask a mesmer player to help you understand the class and do some duels, after less than an hour of playing you'll understand that mesmer is not just applying conditions over and over.

He made this post to cry, not to learn.

It is not his job to learn. Once again; It is Anet job to finally take a stand that this ongoing epidemic has negatively impacted any remaining fun-factor in the game competitive scenery.

Mesmer must hit rock bottom again. Except this time, in the right way

"Once you hit rock bottom, that's where you perfectly stand; That's your chance of restarting, but restarting the right way"

It's not his job to learn but if he doesn't he has no right to complain.

He including everyone else including myself in Guild Wars 2 6 years run, has the right to complain about Mesmer toxicity and its bad design

Here is a 5 years old video of a duel between an elementalist vs a condi mesmer. You be the judge

PU was a build in which you could just walk while the mesmer was attacking you because unless you attacked the mesmer, the damage was non-existent.

[Burnfall.9573]

Here is a 5 page thread in a Mesmer subforum discussing if Mesmer are Op. Quite interesting discussions with facts by mostly mesmer players

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57501/mirage-mesmer-is-op/p5

By the way, here is a video by pvp enthusiast who main mesmer-shorts. In some of his videos, he also states that mesmer damages are Op. Here is video of the strongest condition build he plays. In the intro, he states that he doesn't see too many nerfs coming for it in the future.

[losingcontrol.1084]

Boonbeast is way worse right now, and can counter condi mirage pretty easily in any 1vs1, and for now I don't think it has a direct counter, while mirage suffers quite a bit against good holos and boonbeasts and good thieves 100-0 a mirage no problem. Not to mention core guards are rising up and counter condi mirage too.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Solori.6025 said:Everyone hates Mirage Cloak, so give mesmers The dash dodge, let it function like a normal dodge ( cant dodge while stunned) I would take that compromise.EM shouldn't exist. Mesmer mains said this in beta- Dodge stunbreak is a gimmick design and it can only ever be insanely good, or insanely terrible.

I'm fine with that.

@Solori.6025 said:Give me the combo-What are the stacks you are seeing?What are you considering burst?This is all relevant to the timing of dodges and counting. I am curious.

The standard meta build puts on the stacks you are claiming, but at the end of the burst vigor has refilled endurance completely.Not to mention that if that goes wrong I can cloak - > false oasis for more vigor at any point, cloak -> blink, or move to staff for additional endurance for energy and... what passes for kiting. It ain't kiting but still.

EX: https://imgur.com/a/Gw3swR0

Again, this isn't even my argument. I don't know why I'm humoring it. I think the endurance gen is fine, and I think the condi damage is fine. What my concern is, is that if I am interrupted or set up for burst at any point there, I can avoid the burst at any time without touching my utility bar. Theres no need for me to commit any defensive option there "in case I get stunned" that would shift my rotation. THAT is what makes the torment and confusion nature of the condis a kick in the teeth to me.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Burnfall.9573 said:It is not his job to learn

Gonna stop you there.You need to learn so you know what is broken, or at least have an idea of how to try to deal with it.

[Solo.6873]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Solori.6025 said:Everyone hates Mirage Cloak, so give mesmers The dash dodge, let it function like a normal dodge ( cant dodge while stunned) I would take that compromise.EM shouldn't exist. Mesmer mains said this in beta- Dodge stunbreak is a gimmick design and it can only ever be insanely good, or insanely terrible.

I'm fine with that.

I think everyone would be..BUUUUUTTTTknowing Anet.They will eitherA) leave it alone and further nerf vigor access across the board. Thus further destroying build diversity for multiple already non-meta type buildsB.) Nerf MC by making it a .75 evasion, lower the superspeed or make it swiftness, and put exhaustion on the dodge

@Solori.6025 said:Give me the combo-What are the stacks you are seeing?What are you considering burst?This is all relevant to the timing of dodges and counting. I am curious.

The standard meta build puts on the stacks you are claiming, but at the end of the burst vigor has refilled endurance completely.Not to mention that if that goes wrong I can cloak - > false oasis for more vigor at any point, cloak -> blink, or move to staff for additional endurance for energy and... what passes for kiting. It ain't kiting but still.

EX:

https://imgur.com/a/Gw3swR0

Again, this isn't even my argument. I don't know why I'm humoring it. I think the endurance gen is fine, and I think the condi damage is fine. What my concern is, is that if I am interrupted or set up for burst at any point there, I can avoid the burst at any time without touching my utility bar. Theres no need for me to commit any defensive option there "in case I get stunned" that would shift my rotation. THAT is what makes the torment and confusion nature of the condis a kick in the teeth to me.

Ahh Ok, That makes sense.I would say " delay your burst" but in some cases though depending on who you're playing against they could mind game you :PMy thing has been that if I am able to counter pressure then the mirage has to leave the point and kite- or just straight up run.I think condi application across the board is too high, no profession should be able to stack conditions in a matter of a few seconds repeatedly every 8-12 seconds. Shouldn't happen.But anywayI am all for a new dodge mechanic like I mentioned above. Gives mesmer a bit of mobility back, keeps it thematic with the superspeed access at the end of the dodge and functions like every dodge in the game.Chances of Anet actually doing their job and making mechanical changes that would be beneficial and not completely destroy a class based on an elite spec

Zer0

[UfoCoffee.2084]

Mesmer is my second most played profession. I know exactly how they work. I played condi for a long time. I don't need to learn anything I admitted they were op when I was playing as it as I'm an honest person.

I was referring to axe damage where they nerfed the power value on it? I mean wtf?

All of you defending mesmer are clearly mesmer mains in denial desperately trying to avoid nerfs who like playing god mode.

I felt guilty playing as mes going far and meeting a warrior and killing him by rolling my face over the keyboard.

All well known good mesmers admit condi mes is simple to play and op as fuck.

Pink shorts hates having to play condi but whenever he sees a tough opponent on the other team he switches over to it because it's op.

[Axl.8924]

@gebrechen.5643 said:

@"Solori.6025" said:

I'm not so sure about application. The number of corrupts as well as skills that apply conditions is greater on necro iirc. And cleanses is also something I would contest as necro can either convert,transfer, or cleanse. Mirage or at least the current meta build does not have that luxury and has to avoid conditions other wise it can be loaded and killed

You ran out of corrupt faster than a condi mirage can put them on you. Tranfering conditions is in most cases a thing that can be dodged. That makes the mesmer far more viable in the condition spec.

They are not tanky unless built to tank. Otherwise it's a matter of utilizing clones properly. And any good players know how to deny that mechanic.They are not that mobile unless they use sword and lol that's a power weapon.And power mesmer is essentially dead thanks to people complaining.

I compare Mesmer and Necro here. Necro has to be build for being tanky too, but with no or lesser access to invulnerabilty, stealth or mobility.

For being dead I see a lot more power mirages than power necros or reapers in the matchups.

If the only thing you can do on necro is sit and get your conditions cleansed might I suggest playing a power spec on something else. The necros I have seen are able to point control, add sustain in team fights, provide cover for allies, deal with boon spam. Corrupt boons on a focus target.

That was always the case. You need to a babysitter on the necro, which you don't on a mesmer. But that wasn't the point. The point is that condi mirage is by far superior to Necro in their "class identity" and that's condition pressure.

Like it is THE best teamfighterMake a thread if you have a problem with that. I don't see anyone complaining about necro being good when having a team that supports them - while Mirage and Mesmer was overtuned in most of the pvp seasons since the beginning and it still it.

Necromancer recently got buffed in boon corrupt.If you go look at the notes , you will see that wand is actually stronger in boon corrupt now.

Boon corrupt isn't even the issue, the issue is necros have trouble landing enough condis to kill someone while surviving, because survival is difficult, and with the amount of cleanses, even more so, but the reason why necros are so strong, is that they can corrupt things like resist invigorate etc, while most classes are stuck with if they see resist and other stuff, they can at most strip buffs.

In fact necros are the strongest anti boon class in game ATM.

[Kilar.4791]

If mesmer is so op, why do we have so few mesmers in top 100?

[Master Ketsu.4569]

The real problem is that anet refuses to nerf cheesy scrub-pandering game mechanics.

It doesn't matter if being able to invlun for longer than 10 seconds is balanced out by other things. It's bad for the game.

[Burnfall.9573]

@"XECOR.2814" said:Mirage mains have arrived to flood the post with git gud and secure their broken spec.

This video by shorts was released after latest patch. He explains how the build works and yes, he was able to one shot in few kills

[phokus.8934]

@Lucentfir.7430 said:-Elusive Mind- Exhaustion nerf revert to 2.5s from 6s.-Critical Infusion- Revert the nerf back to 5s of vigor from 3s.-Dune Cloak- In addition to its current effects make, make clones shattered cast this before they die.-Nomad's Endurance- Make it grant 150 Power as well.-Mirage Advance- Reduce Cast time to 0.25s from 0.75s-MC should not be usable while CC'd without EM.-Mirage Cloak- 0.75s dodge frame-Illusionary Ambush- increase the CD to 40s.-Sharper images- Reduce the chance to bleed to 50%. chance on critical hit for Illusions and yourself.-Jaunt- revert back to 3 charges, nerf the recharge to 45s.-Axe of Symmetry- remove the evade and increase the CD to 20s /or remove the target break.-Infinite Horizon- Add a Cooldown of 5s to the clone version but all clones still generate MC.

Hopefully those are reasonable changes?

Mirage Cloak was utterly useless with its original dodge duration. That will not change but some of these changes are fine.

[Derenaya.3479]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"XECOR.2814" said:Mirage mains have arrived to flood the post with git gud and secure their broken spec.

This video by shorts was released after latest patch. He explains how the build works and yes, he was able to one shot in few kills

The video has preparch footage, as he says at 12:00, although it wouldn‘t have changed much (his words).

[phokus.8934]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@everyman.4375 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Kilar.4791 said:

@everyman.4375 said:There's already another post saying the exact same thing and 2000 saying relatively the same thing so why do you feel the need to create another post ?I think you should just ask a mesmer player to help you understand the class and do some duels, after less than an hour of playing you'll understand that mesmer is not just applying conditions over and over.

He made this post to cry, not to learn.

It is not his job to learn. Once again; It is Anet job to finally take a stand that this ongoing epidemic has negatively impacted any remaining fun-factor in the game competitive scenery.

Mesmer must hit rock bottom again. Except this time, in the right way

"Once you hit rock bottom, that's where you perfectly stand; That's your chance of restarting, but restarting the right way"

It's not his job to learn but if he doesn't he has no right to complain.

He including everyone else including myself in Guild Wars 2 6 years run, has the right to complain about Mesmer toxicity and its bad design

Here is a 5 years old video of a duel between an elementalist vs a condi mesmer. You be the judge

You’re complaining about Revenant damage from hammer and wanting it nerfed.

You’re clearly a subpar player who needs to look at his own game play mechanics and flat out, get better.

Stop complaining in life and actually take the time to figure things out instead of having others do it for you.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Derenaya.3479 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"XECOR.2814" said:Mirage mains have arrived to flood the post with git gud and secure their broken spec.

This video by shorts was released after latest patch. He explains how the build works and yes, he was able to one shot in few kills

The video has preparch footage, as he says at 12:00, although it wouldn‘t have changed much (his words).

He also states that it would benefit me>mesmer

[DeferentUrchin.7064]

I remember when people bitched about DH's during HoT Era, as if the most telegraphed class of all time was ever hard to read and gauge. GW2 has perpetually suffered from 'what the hell just killed me?' across all game modes, SPvP included. Mesmer is a class with minimal telegraphing and obscene condi pressure that doesn't give you appropriate feedback about what you are doing/what he's doing.

[Burnfall.9573]

@phokus.8934 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@everyman.4375 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Kilar.4791 said:

@everyman.4375 said:There's already another post saying the exact same thing and 2000 saying relatively the same thing so why do you feel the need to create another post ?I think you should just ask a mesmer player to help you understand the class and do some duels, after less than an hour of playing you'll understand that mesmer is not just applying conditions over and over.

He made this post to cry, not to learn.

It is not his job to learn. Once again; It is Anet job to finally take a stand that this ongoing epidemic has negatively impacted any remaining fun-factor in the game competitive scenery.

Mesmer must hit rock bottom again. Except this time, in the right way

"Once you hit rock bottom, that's where you perfectly stand; That's your chance of restarting, but restarting the right way"

It's not his job to learn but if he doesn't he has no right to complain.

He including everyone else including myself in Guild Wars 2 6 years run, has the right to complain about Mesmer toxicity and its bad design

Here is a 5 years old video of a duel between an elementalist vs a condi mesmer. You be the judge

You’re complaining about Revenant damage from hammer and wanting it nerfed.

You’re clearly a subpar player who needs to look at his own game play mechanics and flat out, get better.

Stop complaining in life and actually take the time to figure things out instead of having others do it for you.

"Customer complaints are important"

"And there’s no better way to collect direct feedback from your customers and improve your product or service.

However, the way you handle a complaint is the difference between keeping a customer or losing one. So, the next time you receive a customer complaint, listen to what the customer has to say, apologize (!), find a solution and follow up to see if he or she is happy with the way you are handling it.

In doing so, you are on your way to creating more loyal customers, improving your product and delivering a better quality of customer service."

---

"When a customer makes a complaint, he or she is voicing a concern in relation to your product or service. However, not all complaints are to be treated equally and there are several questions to ask yourself before you take action, including":

Has this happened before?Have the complaints been recorded?How often does the same compliant arise?Is there a pattern to this complaint in how it was received?Has the same customer reported this previously?By answering these questions, you can take the necessary steps required to prevent them from happening again.

[phokus.8934]

You sound very entitled and think the customer is always right.

With regards to GW2, you’re even more overtly entitled based on your comments about how bad you play and how other classes are able to kill you.

It’s a really good thing they don’t listen to people who post on the forums who make irrational emotional posts. So again, stop looking for others to fix your problems and really understand something instead of running to someone else.

[Burnfall.9573]

@"phokus.8934" said:You sound very entitled and think the customer is always right.

With regards to GW2, you’re even more overtly entitled based on your comments about how bad you play and how other classes are able to kill you.

It’s a really good thing they don’t listen to people who post on the forums who make irrational emotional posts. So again, stop looking for others to fix your problems and really understand something instead of running to someone else.

I'm not entitled or to any special treatment. In fact, i'm quite the opposite. I encourage to resolve potential problems.

"Every company greatest assets are its customers, because without customers there is no company"

[Solo.6873]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"XECOR.2814" said:Mirage mains have arrived to flood the post with git gud and secure their broken spec.

This video by shorts was released after latest patch. He explains how the build works and yes, he was able to one shot in few kills

Power mes doesn't work the same in spvp....Do you even play this game?!?

[Burnfall.9573]

@Solori.6025 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"XECOR.2814" said:Mirage mains have arrived to flood the post with git gud and secure their broken spec.

This video by shorts was released after latest patch. He explains how the build works and yes, he was able to one shot in few kills

Power mes doesn't work the same in spvp....Do you even play this game?!?

(I was pointing out power mesmer, i did not make any claims that it worked in pvp)Advice to you: before you start raging or being aggressive , look for it or even ask shorts for the builds he uses. He will gladly answer any questions that you may have, calmly :) Thank You!!

Pvp version

[kodesh.2851]

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:

@"Pooty Tang.8104" said:Did you not read the patch notes?

Portal nerf ah not that bad. a bit less mobility noting more you guys are fine you have still the damage that you can apply without trying. I even can win on mesmer in plat+ and i have only played 4 hour with mesmer. That is how brain dead the condi mirage build is. I stopt with playing it becuase i was os borring.

Pretty much every area of condi mirage has been nerfed already. Durations, damage, count charges, Elusive Mind is a joke trait now. Damage has been nerfed to the point where no condi mirage takes sword anymore so they also have mediocre mobility now. They also have virtually no clears. If you're (ppl in general, not YOU specifically) STILL having trouble imo it's a lern2play issue. The reason newbie mesmers can hang in plat is because there's a lot of non-plat players in those games who are still easily bamboozled by mesmer mechanics. Actual plat players have been fighting it long enough, they know how to deal with the condi mirage one trick pwny. I stopped playing it because my power build is far more effective in most game situations.

[kodesh.2851]

@Axl.8924 said:How about instead of nerfing mesmers condi they first nerf condi cleanses instead of having to wreck another condi spec?

Seriously, no more breaking specs.

Anet should rather listen to people who know how the spec performs at max level, so before anymore nerfs happen, I want some information on the performance on all Mesmer specs such as chronomancer core and mirage.

Well condi mes takes no clears atm other than Jaunt, which was just nerfed, so congrats Anet has granted your wish

[Axl.8924]

@kodesh.2851 said:

@Axl.8924 said:How about instead of nerfing mesmers condi they first nerf condi cleanses instead of having to wreck another condi spec?

Seriously, no more breaking specs.

Anet should rather listen to people who know how the spec performs at max level, so before anymore nerfs happen, I want some information on the performance on all Mesmer specs such as chronomancer core and mirage.

Well condi mes takes no clears atm other than Jaunt, which was just nerfed, so congrats Anet has granted your wish

While I did complain earlier this year about mesmers and mirage especially, I do not wish the class to be destroyed.

I don't want condi mirage to disappear because of some sort of anger towards it. I am concerned that any other possible nerfs could destroy mesmers completely.

I also have a alt Mesmer who play as chronomancer for support who is now completely shaved and im concerned about the viability, since I heard now I have to use wells and tell people to stand in them, which can frankly be sometimes pretty hard.

[Vicariuz.1605]

@losingcontrol.1084 said:Boonbeast is way worse right now, and can counter condi mirage pretty easily in any 1vs1, and for now I don't think it has a direct counter, while mirage suffers quite a bit against good holos and boonbeasts and good thieves 100-0 a mirage no problem. Not to mention core guards are rising up and counter condi mirage too.

all of the classes u just mentioned lose 1v1 to a condi mirage.

there is this interesting thing where people who do not actually understand match ups regurgitate the narrative they are told without actually testing it.

boonbeast, conversion holo, s/d thief and core guard all lose 1v1 to condi mirage.

one of the MAJOR reasons why flandre's team won last month was because boyce (boonbeast) was completely checked by condi mirage forcing him to teamfight on a build that is not suited for the role.

as far as short's video, that is not the strongest condi build for mirage, torch offhand is the reason why it isnt, there is a better option that puts out FAR more pressure.