Fighting mirage is dropping the keyboard and looking at the UI

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@"Revolution.5409" said:sure I agree in fact my post did not want to represent the class as "mesmer OP needs nerf" but it goes against those who think it is inferior, so I listed what it is able to do to prove otherwise

I don't think anyone honestly believes mesmer is "inferior", even after being nerfed with almost every balance patch of 2018. But it is undeniably the most singled out profession by the community as something to despise, and is commonly perceived to be the most OP class. Which is to say it's more OP than every other class in the game, including Soulbeast and Holosmith. That simply isn't true, especially after the latest patch.

People can say mesmers are "annoying" or "obnoxious" to play against. And that is a subjective opinion to which they are entitled. But to say mesmer is OP is a claim that is measurable objectively. And there doesn't seem to be any more objective measure than ranked outcomes, where mes is decidedly underrepresented compared to other "overperforming" classes.

But popular perception often lags reality.

[Crab Fear.1624]

mirage oh so fun to play against...oh so makes me want to buy the next expac with the next mes....cant wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Revolution.5409]

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@"Revolution.5409" said:sure I agree in fact my post did not want to represent the class as "mesmer OP needs nerf" but it goes against those who think it is inferior, so I listed what it is able to do to prove otherwise

I don't think anyone honestly believes mesmer is "inferior", even after being nerfed with almost every balance patch of 2018. But it is undeniably the most singled out profession by the community as something to despise, and is commonly perceived to be the most OP class. Which is to say it's more OP than every other class in the game, including Soulbeast and Holosmith. That simply isn't true, especially after the latest patch.

People can say mesmers are "annoying" or "obnoxious" to play against. And that is a subjective opinion to which they are entitled. But to say mesmer is OP is a claim that is measurable objectively. And there doesn't seem to be any more objective measure than ranked outcomes, where mes is decidedly underrepresented compared to other "overperforming" classes.

But popular perception often lags reality.

The problem with mirage is the "amount of condition", the last patch did nothing about this.The nerf to the portal does not justify the amount of condition that the class is able to apply.Popular perception is that mirage condition build is intact and nothing has changed.Regarding the ranking is your opinion if you think it is "objective" but the game will never be balanced on a ranking of 250 people, there are also others to consider, and I think it's right this way

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:sure I agree in fact my post did not want to represent the class as "mesmer OP needs nerf" but it goes against those who think it is inferior, so I listed what it is able to do to prove otherwise

I don't think anyone honestly believes mesmer is "inferior", even after being nerfed with almost every balance patch of 2018. But it is undeniably the most singled out profession by the community as something to despise, and is commonly perceived to be the most OP class. Which is to say it's more OP than every other class in the game, including Soulbeast and Holosmith. That simply isn't true, especially after the latest patch.

People can say mesmers are "annoying" or "obnoxious" to play against. And that is a subjective opinion to which they are entitled. But to say mesmer is OP is a claim that is measurable objectively. And there doesn't seem to be any more objective measure than ranked outcomes, where mes is decidedly underrepresented compared to other "overperforming" classes.

But popular perception often lags reality.

The problem with mirage is the "amount of condition", the last patch did nothing about this.The nerf to the portal does not justify the amount of condition that the class is able to apply.Popular perception is that mirage condition build is intact and nothing has changed.Regarding the ranking is your opinion if you think it is "objective" but the game will never be balanced on a ranking of 250 people, there are also others to consider, and I think it's right this way

They lost 1 charge of jaunt which is a nerf to their condi application, condi removal and mobility.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:sure I agree in fact my post did not want to represent the class as "mesmer OP needs nerf" but it goes against those who think it is inferior, so I listed what it is able to do to prove otherwise

I don't think anyone honestly believes mesmer is "inferior", even after being nerfed with almost every balance patch of 2018. But it is undeniably the most singled out profession by the community as something to despise, and is commonly perceived to be the most OP class. Which is to say it's more OP than every other class in the game, including Soulbeast and Holosmith. That simply isn't true, especially after the latest patch.

People can say mesmers are "annoying" or "obnoxious" to play against. And that is a subjective opinion to which they are entitled. But to say mesmer is OP is a claim that is measurable objectively. And there doesn't seem to be any more objective measure than ranked outcomes, where mes is decidedly underrepresented compared to other "overperforming" classes.

But popular perception often lags reality.

The problem with mirage is the "amount of condition", the last patch did nothing about this.The nerf to the portal does not justify the amount of condition that the class is able to apply.Nah. With it's utility so heavily nerfed, Mirage does deserve to have excellent 1v1 capability since that's all it really has left. There was very much "Pick your poison" situation going on, and the community picked it's poison when it gleefully called for and cheered for the portal nerfing.

Popular perception is that mirage condition build is intact and nothing has changed.It's actually stronger and deadlier 1v1 now that no one is using Portal making a third combat utility a no-brainer. Congratulations.

Regarding the ranking is your opinion if you think it is "objective" but the game will never be balanced on a ranking of 250 people, there are also

others to consider

, and I think it's right this way

Are there? Are there really? I've met gold 2 players, but I am not convinced gold 1 even actually exists.

The number one goal of balance is to create a dynamic interesting meta where every class has at least one build that can be run in a meta comp, not to give garbage dumpsters free kills. Consideration towards new players is already given with easier builds to be effective at such as core guard, various ranger builds especially boonbeast now, various necromancer builds while thieves revenants are high skill cap builds that don't come into fuller effectiveness until a certain skill threshold is reached.

[Revolution.5409]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:sure I agree in fact my post did not want to represent the class as "mesmer OP needs nerf" but it goes against those who think it is inferior, so I listed what it is able to do to prove otherwise

I don't think anyone honestly believes mesmer is "inferior", even after being nerfed with almost every balance patch of 2018. But it is undeniably the most singled out profession by the community as something to despise, and is commonly perceived to be the most OP class. Which is to say it's more OP than every other class in the game, including Soulbeast and Holosmith. That simply isn't true, especially after the latest patch.

People can say mesmers are "annoying" or "obnoxious" to play against. And that is a subjective opinion to which they are entitled. But to say mesmer is OP is a claim that is measurable objectively. And there doesn't seem to be any more objective measure than ranked outcomes, where mes is decidedly underrepresented compared to other "overperforming" classes.

But popular perception often lags reality.

The problem with mirage is the "amount of condition", the last patch did nothing about this.The nerf to the portal does not justify the amount of condition that the class is able to apply.Nah. With it's utility so heavily nerfed, Mirage does deserve to have excellent 1v1 capability since that's all it really has left. There was very much "Pick your poison" situation going on, and the community picked it's poison when it gleefully called for and cheered for the portal nerfing.

Popular perception is that mirage condition build is intact and nothing has changed.It's actually stronger and deadlier 1v1 now that no one is using Portal making a third combat utility a no-brainer. Congratulations.

Regarding the ranking is your opinion if you think it is "objective" but the game will never be balanced on a ranking of 250 people, there are also

others to consider

, and I think it's right this way

Are there? Are there really? I've met gold 2 players, but I am not convinced gold 1 even actually exists.

The number one goal of balance is to create a dynamic interesting meta where every class has at least one build that can be run in a meta comp, not to give garbage dumpsters free kills. Consideration towards new players is already given with easier builds to be effective at such as core guard, various ranger builds especially boonbeast now, various necromancer builds while thieves revenants are high skill cap builds that don't come into fuller effectiveness until a certain skill threshold is reached.

I will have lost this post in which the community requires this nerf to the portal, usually I read only mesmer too much damage from condi, nerf.Of course there are :) I can also show you a screen in which I participate in a matchup with 4 mirages (including me) xD gold 3

[mortrialus.3062]

@Revolution.5409 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:sure I agree in fact my post did not want to represent the class as "mesmer OP needs nerf" but it goes against those who think it is inferior, so I listed what it is able to do to prove otherwise

I don't think anyone honestly believes mesmer is "inferior", even after being nerfed with almost every balance patch of 2018. But it is undeniably the most singled out profession by the community as something to despise, and is commonly perceived to be the most OP class. Which is to say it's more OP than every other class in the game, including Soulbeast and Holosmith. That simply isn't true, especially after the latest patch.

People can say mesmers are "annoying" or "obnoxious" to play against. And that is a subjective opinion to which they are entitled. But to say mesmer is OP is a claim that is measurable objectively. And there doesn't seem to be any more objective measure than ranked outcomes, where mes is decidedly underrepresented compared to other "overperforming" classes.

But popular perception often lags reality.

The problem with mirage is the "amount of condition", the last patch did nothing about this.The nerf to the portal does not justify the amount of condition that the class is able to apply.Nah. With it's utility so heavily nerfed, Mirage does deserve to have excellent 1v1 capability since that's all it really has left. There was very much "Pick your poison" situation going on, and the community picked it's poison when it gleefully called for and cheered for the portal nerfing.

Popular perception is that mirage condition build is intact and nothing has changed.It's actually stronger and deadlier 1v1 now that no one is using Portal making a third combat utility a no-brainer. Congratulations.

Regarding the ranking is your opinion if you think it is "objective" but the game will never be balanced on a ranking of 250 people, there are also

others to consider

, and I think it's right this way

Are there? Are there really? I've met gold 2 players, but I am not convinced gold 1 even actually exists.

The number one goal of balance is to create a dynamic interesting meta where every class has at least one build that can be run in a meta comp, not to give garbage dumpsters free kills. Consideration towards new players is already given with easier builds to be effective at such as core guard, various ranger builds especially boonbeast now, various necromancer builds while thieves revenants are high skill cap builds that don't come into fuller effectiveness until a certain skill threshold is reached.

I will have lost this post in which the community requires this nerf to the portal, usually I read only mesmer too much damage from condi, nerf.Of course there are :) I can also show you a screen in which I participate in a matchup with 4 mirages (including me) xD gold 3

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62918/how-are-we-supposed-to-use-portal-now/p1

Nonmesmers were pretty happy to see Portal get nerfed.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@herrmartell.7109 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@herrmartell.7109 said:Mesmer is self healing? Burst some interrupts.

Doesn't false oasis have something like a .75 second cast time and thus cannot be interrupted if they choose to mirage cloak while using it?

Not that specifically that is an issue.

Well, if you get picky, probably any class has a way to counter anything in a very ideal scenario. The truth is, the real deal is always far from your ideal setup.

objectively what you are saying is true, but in context it is a dodge. That point specifically means there is no way to force the mirage to not use their heal if they want to use it and have at least 50 endurance. That is not some kind of perfect storm scenario, it happens regularly as part of any normal matchup.

I need to reiterate that I don't really care as much about the strength of False Oasis on its own, but I don't think that qualifies as "being picky.", It just flat means you cant interrupt false oasis as long as the mes can dodge. It's not a major problem because there are other heals in the game that have defenses built in like shelter or withdraw (though those too have counterplay, but that is beside the point), but that response to me pointing out that you can't just "burst some interrupts" to prevent healing if the mirage is running false oasis (and most of them do, because free mirror evade, endurance) seems like a non-answer to me.

At some point people in general need to look at what the kit brings instead of going "its a L2P issue" and then, when presented with evidence it is not a L2P issue, switching over to "you're nitpicking".

That aside:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Nonmesmers were pretty happy to see Portal get nerfed.

This is still disgusting, as is confounding suggestions nerf.

@mortrialus.3062 said:Nah. With it's utility so heavily nerfed, Mirage does deserve to have excellent 1v1 capability since that's all it really has left.

The circle is now complete, Mirages are now Pre HoT, Scarlet-era Thieves. Just remember good at 1v1 across the board means good at +1, and all thieves can do is +1.

...so effectively Mirages are just better thieves now...which...warrants... portal nerf?

shakily pours scotch

! It's a joke.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@herrmartell.7109 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@herrmartell.7109 said:Mesmer is self healing? Burst some interrupts.

Doesn't false oasis have something like a .75 second cast time and thus cannot be interrupted if they choose to mirage cloak while using it?

Not that specifically that is an issue.

Well, if you get picky, probably any class has a way to counter anything in a very ideal scenario. The truth is, the real deal is always far from your ideal setup.

objectively what you are saying is true, but in context it is a dodge. That point specifically means there is no way to force the mirage to not use their heal if they want to use it and have at least 50 endurance. That is not some kind of perfect storm scenario, it happens regularly as part of any normal matchup.

I need to reiterate that I don't really care as much about the strength of False Oasis on its own, but I don't think that qualifies as "being picky.", It just flat means you cant interrupt false oasis as long as the mes can dodge. It's not a major problem because there are other heals in the game that have defenses built in like shelter or withdraw (though those too have counterplay, but that is beside the point), but that response to me pointing out that you can't just "burst some interrupts" to prevent healing if the mirage is running false oasis (and most of them do, because free mirror evade, endurance) seems like a non-answer to me.

At some point people in general need to look at what the kit brings instead of going "its a L2P issue" and then, when presented with evidence it is not a L2P issue, switching over to "you're nitpicking".

That aside:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Nonmesmers were pretty happy to see Portal get nerfed.

This is still disgusting, as is confounding suggestions nerf.

@mortrialus.3062 said:Nah. With it's utility so heavily nerfed, Mirage does deserve to have excellent 1v1 capability since that's all it really has left.

The circle is now complete, Mirages are now Pre HoT, Scarlet-era Thieves. Just remember good at 1v1 across the board means good at +1, and all thieves can do is +1.

...so effectively Mirages are just better thieves now...which...warrants... portal nerf?

shakily pours scotch

! It's a joke.

Killing an enemy memser right as they open their portal, leaving their downed body lying on the ground helpless as their portal opens around them might have been one of my favorite things about conquest and I'm unlikely to ever see it again.

[Swagg.9236]

@Fortus.6175 said:I had a shower thought, fighting mirage is all about looking at the UI constantly to see if you have confusion and torment. If you dont have an easily accessible condi clear that requires one click (unlike changing attunement/kit/weapon slot and then casting an ability) , or for you to not move (like setting up water field and then using another skill like leap) then the only other thing you can really do is take your hands off your keyboard and constantly be looking at your UI more than the opponent.

I thought GW2 wanted us to move away from UI combat, and overall I dont think it is fun to not do anything as the best possible answer.

Anyways, soulbeasts too strong atm.

Since I use a build that simply cannot chase down or pressure mirage spam in a timely manner (even if I lay down ward walls which they will run into because 99% of players in this game don't seem to think much, they will just stun break or continue evading), I would argue that reacting (keyword there) to Mirages is a matter of timing (if you see them coming). It's a momentary stall followed by some evade/block spam followed by making a lot of space between yourself and the Mirage. Perhaps the closest analogy I could draw would be fighting the d/d ele flash churning earth gimmick in 2012. But at least you can reliably hit and CC that build.

The truth is that whenever the Mirage engine revs up, that player is basically going to get to do whatever they want so long as their rotation is firing on all cylinders. I dont really understand the defense for it, since I can 100-0 some classes on the condo build without even taking damage despite being right in an opponent's face. Even if it doesn't kill, there is almost no way that the user is under any real threat while spamming the rotation.

All that said, this game's UI is indeed a horrific mess and the game is saturated with trash that isn't really at all adequately conveyed on the screen. Just take a look at anyone in WvW for instance or ask anyone how important traits are (which aren't even really displayed in combat).

[Burnfall.9573]

At this moment we are being 1 shotted by shatter mes (once again, Anet check my log if i'm lying and please ban me if i am)Unti; Amet redesign mesmer from the ground up' don't bother wasting your time addressing anything about mesmers.

You Will Never Change What You Tolerate!!!

What You Put Up With, You End Up With!!

What You Allow Continues!!!