P/D Thief Rework [My Thoughts] [Feedback Welcome]

[AikijinX.6258]

I had seen another P/D thread on here, and was going to comment on it, but I just kept on writing and writing on his/her thread in the chat box and it became quite long and extensive, so I decided hey, "i'm writing so much, why not just make a separate thread", because I wanted to talk about my suggestions and ideas anyway, and wanted to get feedback from the community. This is not to discredit the other person's thread, I just wanted feedback on my crazy ideas. ^_^

Come to think of it, I actually had forgotten Thieves can use P/D as a set. That shows how much I've encountered and seen it's game play. I used to run a P/D build years ago, it was a main of mine and I had made a build and put out a video for it. But P/D is in a pretty difficult spot right now, and I do believe it merits a bit of love and possible rework. For me to forget a set even exists is terrible.

I'm not much of an advocate for condi, which is why all my builds that do have some type of condi in it are hybrid, but if Anet does decide to look at P/D I hope it's not just increasing bleed duration by 2s, and decrease bleed stack by 1.P/D needs a full rework. I don't want a rework done that has the P/D User "Gain X Boon upon successful landing or strike" That's boring.

[My Thoughts]

• Similar to S/D #3.--- P/D can have some sort of double skill within the skill type deal as well. So when you p/d #3: You blink away, and upon successful strike you gain access to either a (stealth, evade frame, or block), maybe even another Shadowstep backwards (for free, no initiative cost)

• Another thought for P/D #3: As you successfully strike opponent and blink away-- Gain access to hook mechanic (Pulls enemies towards you)

• Now for P/D #2- The immobilize is still pretty strong, but with all the condi cleanse and passives that all these classes have and innate (-condi duration) immob is pretty much useless, unless duration is increased w/ of course an increase in initiative cost so you cant spam.

• 2nd thought for P/D #2- (Call me crazy I know I know- OP right, but just a thought) - What about shooting your #2 immob and upon successful landing gain access to either shadowstep or superspeed? --

I know a particular combo in mind if we are going based off my suggestions: #2 (Immob, Shadowstep towards opponent)> #3 (Shadowstep away, gain access to hook)> Pull> CnD> Sneak Attack---- But that begs to question, how much initiative all these skills will take to execute.

• P/D#4 Cripple- Maybe upon successful landing of skill gain access to Stealth and shadowstep towards opponent (Similar to shadow trap)--- Shadow Pursuit

• P/D #5 is fine

P/D and lets be real here, D/D has needed mobility for years now. These are just my suggestions. Of course having all of them on the set, I admit could OR would be overpowered, but who knows. In today's meta, a Soulbeast or Mirage could still probably outclass a P/D Thief even with all these changes I suggested.

Anyone have any thoughts? And yes you can call me crazy for these thoughts I give you permission :)Be Constructive not Hurtful-- I want Anet to take this thread and everyone who provides feedback seriously

[babazhook.6805]

I really think P/D close and what needed is some sort of daze/interrupt in the set so as to use pressure strike. Then update pressure strike to 3 stacks torment. The hook mechanic is an example of that and wouild work nicely on number 4 where you THROW dagger and PULL the enemy towards you. You get the 1 stack torment it has and get added sacks on the interrupt if PS traited.

I still use the set. I find it still one of if not the best condition sets we have left AND as far as hybrids go it right at the top.

I would NOT support a step to the opponent. We already have plenty of that. I would much prefer that we have a PULL as tacticaly the set would then work very different from a DP. IE in DP you step to the foe. What if foe is surrounded by friends? What if foe stands in traps or fields of AOE? With a pull you can separate people from their group.

As to the rest of the set not much needed in way of changes. #2 should see 5 seconds on the Vuln. I do not think spam of this skill that big an issue as it not doing damage.

I feel with a pull on 4 (which helps d/d as well overcome its own issues) , added torment on pressure strike and an increase of vuln duration on 2 the set is there. Shadowstrike might need a slight increase in damage for hybrids or power.

[Taobella.6597]

problem with p/d is it a tempo playstyle an it single target both suck these days for thief . what it need is to be completely god tier buffed.

what i would do to start to fix it. i base line give thief pistol piercing. an give shadow strike second hit a knockback.

[saerni.2584]

So, as (one of the only) P/D thieves currently playing:

• P/D is actually in a pretty good place. Recent changes to Malicious Sneak Attack and normalization of Shadowstrike went a long way to improving the set overall.
• I think the game has become more about hybrid damage than pure condi outside of scourge and Mirage. Condi cleanse is so high that I think the problem isn’t P/D and rather cleanse access has gotten out of hand.
• Body Shot isn’t a bad skill because immobilize can be super good at shutting down enemy movement and letting multiple people land their attacks. That said, the projectile speed is slow. I’d like to see that improved.
• If Daze were added to the set I’d put it in Shadowstrike. It wouldn’t be spammable and the synergy that Babaz mentioned would be to add some extra torment from Pressure Striking. 1/4 second, keep same initiative cost.
• P/D is very mobile and doesn’t need another port in my opinion.

In general, I think people underestimate P/D and assume it doesn’t work without trying to make it work. I played it as core as Daredevil and Deadeye. I prefer DE because it works with the ranged and Stealth aspects of P/D.

[Safandula.8723]

IMO, this set need more condi covers.I would like to see 3rd skill being interrupt, and if u interrupt, u apply confusion for example. Didnt play to much of p/d but I rly missed condi coverers. Way to easy to cleanse

[DeceiverX.8361]

P/D is pretty much the ultimate Rock Paper Scissors build right now due to the meta and current game-state. It's neither strong nor weak - played right, it's very hard to actually shut down, but depending on the target, it can be impossible to shut its opponent down thanks to massive cleansing and sustain that was added with specs like the Firebrand.

I don't think it needs buffs just because it's hard to really do much to make it consistently "fair" so to speak. It's also pretty wildly different in WvW and sPvP when evaluating performance.

Either its opponent has the tools to deal with the condi bomb and some minor-enough mobility to force it to burn through an excess of initiative, or the opponent does not have sufficient tools to deal with its rapid application of tempo-based condition stacks, and subsequently dies.

Relatively even encounters will favor the better player, but few prominent builds are really running such configurations.

[dDuff.3860]

The only thing i agree with is that #3 need some sort of rework.Atm hitbox of first strike is really small, it feels even smaller than melee, so you have to stay right next to your target, otherwise you won't hit it.Second, P/d is countrered by blind/block etc.

So my suggestion for P/d #3:Make the range of melee strike a bit bigger (i.e. 150 distance), andMake it unblockable – its damage is really minor, so it won't be a problem

P/D #2Increase the velocity of projectile by 50%. It was buffed already, but it is still very unreliable to hit those things on moving target, unless in melee, which is kinda stupid for ranged weapon

Everything else on P/d is completely fine and do not require a buff.

[Dahkeus.8243]

I'd love to see P/D in a better spot and there's definitely some potential here. D/D has always made condi builds pretty cheesy since it's been all about spamming death blossom and skills that attack while evading just generally make for poor gameplay.

P/D, on the other hand, has made for a great cat-and-mouse stealth condi build in the past, at least in WvW. Some love here would definitely have a lot of potential and there's some good ideas in the original post.

[saerni.2584]

I’ve been meaning to make a video of gameplay recently but I have been busy so it hasn’t happened.

I’ll try to get one up so people can have a sense of the gameplay.

[AikijinX.6258]

@Safandula.8723 said:IMO, this set need more condi covers.I would like to see 3rd skill being interrupt, and if u interrupt, u apply confusion for example. Didnt play to much of p/d but I rly missed condi coverers. Way to easy to cleanse

That would be cool! I like that idea. So similar to a warrior Mace/shield Hybrid spec? And yes unfortunately the condi cleanse accessibility has been dished out quite a bit. >@babazhook.6805 said:

I really think P/D close and what needed is some sort of daze/interrupt in the set so as to use pressure strike. Then update pressure strike to 3 stacks torment. The hook mechanic is an example of that and wouild work nicely on number 4 where you THROW dagger and PULL the enemy towards you. You get the 1 stack torment it has and get added sacks on the interrupt if PS traited.

I still use the set. I find it still one of if not the best condition sets we have left AND as far as hybrids go it right at the top.

I would NOT support a step to the opponent. We already have plenty of that. I would much prefer that we have a PULL as tacticaly the set would then work very different from a DP. IE in DP you step to the foe. What if foe is surrounded by friends? What if foe stands in traps or fields of AOE? With a pull you can separate people from their group.

As to the rest of the set not much needed in way of changes. #2 should see 5 seconds on the Vuln. I do not think spam of this skill that big an issue as it not doing damage.

I feel with a pull on 4 (which helps d/d as well overcome its own issues) , added torment on pressure strike and an increase of vuln duration on 2 the set is there. Shadowstrike might need a slight increase in damage for hybrids or power.

I like the hook mechanic i mentioned, and yes even on dagger 4, that would be great, as it would apply to-- X/D.

In terms of the shadowstep that i suggested for P/D skill 2, I can see where the danger would lie, but I was more or less thinking that it would function as a 2 part skill, so if you don't want to teleport over there which you would have about 3-5 seconds to choose to click the 2nd function, then you don't have to travel to the danger area.

I just feel as though the set could use more lock down capability i.e (Stun/Interrupt as you mentioned above) and Mobility as I've mentioned. :)

-Awesome feedback brotha>

@Taobella.6597 said:

problem with p/d is it a tempo playstyle an it single target both suck these days for thief . what it need is to be completely god tier buffed.

what i would do to start to fix it. i base line give thief pistol piercing. an give shadow strike second hit a knockback.

Richochet... Nuff said. rip.So you'd want a knockback with shadowstrike? Hmm. I don't know how good the interaction between those skills would be. Because you'd teleport backwards, and then have to walk forward towards foe, and hope the knockback icd doesn't run out before you get to foe.Interesting.. nonetheless ^^

@saerni.2584 said:So, as (one of the only) P/D thieves currently playing:

• P/D is actually in a pretty good place. Recent changes to Malicious Sneak Attack and normalization of Shadowstrike went a long way to improving the set overall.
• I think the game has become more about hybrid damage than pure condi outside of scourge and Mirage. Condi cleanse is so high that I think the problem isn’t P/D and rather cleanse access has gotten out of hand.
• Body Shot isn’t a bad skill because immobilize can be super good at shutting down enemy movement and letting multiple people land their attacks. That said, the projectile speed is slow. I’d like to see that improved.
• If Daze were added to the set I’d put it in Shadowstrike. It wouldn’t be spammable and the synergy that Babaz mentioned would be to add some extra torment from Pressure Striking. 1/4 second, keep same initiative cost.
• P/D is very mobile and doesn’t need another port in my opinion.

In general, I think people underestimate P/D and assume it doesn’t work without trying to make it work. I played it as core as Daredevil and Deadeye. I prefer DE because it works with the ranged and Stealth aspects of P/D.

So we've reached a kind of a consensus about P/D needing a Daze/Stun type ability built into the set? Which is good, because the community is practically coming together and agreeing on 1 thing.

Projectile speed has to be increased marginally, because it does get frustrating when you're literally in back of the person, they take a step to the right or left, just as you fire, and "Out of range", and it always seems that it's always warriors that I had run into that problem with when I played the set.

You really believe P/D is mobile brotha?>

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:

P/D is pretty much the ultimate Rock Paper Scissors build right now due to the meta and current game-state. It's neither strong nor weak - played right, it's very hard to actually shut down, but depending on the target, it can be impossible to shut its opponent down thanks to massive cleansing and sustain that was added with specs like the Firebrand.

I don't think it needs buffs just because it's hard to really do much to make it consistently "fair" so to speak. It's also pretty wildly different in WvW and sPvP when evaluating performance.

Either its opponent has the tools to deal with the condi bomb and some minor-enough mobility to force it to burn through an excess of initiative, or the opponent does not have sufficient tools to deal with its rapid application of tempo-based condition stacks, and subsequently dies.

Relatively even encounters will favor the better player, but few prominent builds are really running such configurations.

I agree with that analysis of P/D. It really isn't top tier, nor is it a bottom tier set. It's pretty much in "potential limbo" Where the potential is there, but the application isn't. And if played right with higher tiered players it shows high potential value, but matched against lower skilled players you start to wonder why the set even exists.>

@dDuff.3860 said:

The only thing i agree with is that #3 need some sort of rework.Atm hitbox of first strike is really small, it feels even smaller than melee, so you have to stay right next to your target, otherwise you won't hit it.Second, P/d is countrered by blind/block etc.

So my suggestion for P/d #3:Make the range of melee strike a bit bigger (i.e. 150 distance), andMake it unblockable – its damage is really minor, so it won't be a problem

P/D #2Increase the velocity of projectile by 50%. It was buffed already, but it is still very unreliable to hit those things on moving target, unless in melee, which is kinda stupid for ranged weapon

Everything else on P/d is completely fine and do not require a buff.

I agree with the increase of #3 Shadowstrike hitbox. It's very frustrating, that's a 2nd mention for hitbox increase. Making the strike unblockable does seem pretty doable, since the damage isn't that unanimous. I agree with the Unblockable, and Increase in bullet velocity.>

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

I'd love to see P/D in a better spot and there's definitely some potential here. D/D has always made condi builds pretty cheesy since it's been all about spamming death blossom and skills that attack while evading just generally make for poor gameplay.

P/D, on the other hand, has made for a great cat-and-mouse stealth condi build in the past, at least in WvW. Some love here would definitely have a lot of potential and there's some good ideas in the original post.

Thanks for liking some of my ideas brotha! appreciate it :)>

@saerni.2584 said:

I’ve been meaning to make a video of gameplay recently but I have been busy so it hasn’t happened.

I’ll try to get one up so people can have a sense of the gameplay.

We're all waiting on that footage man ^^

[Dahkeus.8243]

Not sure if I missed it anywhere, but I think one of the biggest areas in need of buff for P/D is Cloak and Dagger. It's just too easily blocked/evaded/blinded, which is one of the big reasons why dagger offhand was abandoned so long ago for pistol offhand on power builds. If skill 3 was reworked to provide stealth, it may not be such a big issue, but that would also make CnD entirely worthless in all situations for P/D.

[AikijinX.6258]

@Dahkeus.8243 said:Not sure if I missed it anywhere, but I think one of the biggest areas in need of buff for P/D is Cloak and Dagger. It's just too easily blocked/evaded/blinded, which is one of the big reasons why dagger offhand was abandoned so long ago for pistol offhand on power builds. If skill 3 was reworked to provide stealth, it may not be such a big issue, but that would also make CnD entirely worthless in all situations for P/D.

Honestly (This is my opinion, and it's not to criticize or downplay your skill at ALL), But landing CnD in my opinion isn't much of a mechanic problem, but more of the user's problem. Yes there are times where CnD misses, but I believe CnD is pretty reliable, 80% of the time. (In my opinion).

Skill 3 just needs some type of love, whether it's as I mentioned a pull mechanic, a block, evade frame, something.

[Dahkeus.8243]

@AikijinX.6258 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:Not sure if I missed it anywhere, but I think one of the biggest areas in need of buff for P/D is Cloak and Dagger. It's just too easily blocked/evaded/blinded, which is one of the big reasons why dagger offhand was abandoned so long ago for pistol offhand on power builds. If skill 3 was reworked to provide stealth, it may not be such a big issue, but that would also make CnD entirely worthless in all situations for P/D.

Honestly (This is my opinion, and it's not to criticize or downplay your skill at ALL), But landing CnD in my opinion isn't much of a mechanic problem, but more of the user's problem. Yes there are times where CnD misses, but I believe CnD is pretty reliable, 80% of the time. (In my opinion).

Skill 3 just needs some type of love, whether it's as I mentioned a pull mechanic, a block, evade frame, something.

Sure, you can make sure that you land CnD with enough awareness, but the problem is that evades and blocks are so pervasive right now that you just don't have enough opportunities to stealth when you need to, even if you can perfectly time your CnD so as to not waste initiative. Black Powder + HS, on the other hand, has the luxury of not having to wait on enemy behavior to provide stealth and I'd argue that stealth attacks are more valuable to P/D for damage than backstab for D/P.

[Taobella.6597]

knockback would be for a slight buff to running whatever trait in trickery line is for intrup. i am to lazy to sign on to my thief XD

[saerni.2584]

@AikijinX.6258

I think Shadowstrike makes it mobile. It takes some practice because you need to hit the mark just so to make it work.

Play it right and you will piss off so many warriors.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@AikijinX.6258 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:Not sure if I missed it anywhere, but I think one of the biggest areas in need of buff for P/D is Cloak and Dagger. It's just too easily blocked/evaded/blinded, which is one of the big reasons why dagger offhand was abandoned so long ago for pistol offhand on power builds. If skill 3 was reworked to provide stealth, it may not be such a big issue, but that would also make CnD entirely worthless in all situations for P/D.

Honestly (This is my opinion, and it's not to criticize or downplay your skill at ALL), But landing CnD in my opinion isn't much of a mechanic problem, but more of the user's problem. Yes there are times where CnD misses, but I believe CnD is pretty reliable, 80% of the time. (In my opinion).

Skill 3 just needs some type of love, whether it's as I mentioned a pull mechanic, a block, evade frame, something.

Sure, you can make sure that you land CnD with enough awareness, but the problem is that evades and blocks are so pervasive right now that you just don't have enough opportunities to stealth when you need to, even if you can perfectly time your CnD so as to not waste initiative. Black Powder + HS, on the other hand, has the luxury of not having to wait on enemy behavior to provide stealth and I'd argue that stealth attacks are more valuable to P/D for damage than backstab for D/P.

Trapper runes and deadeye stolen skills both fix this problem, giving more stealth application that isn't dependant on landing a hit.

[Xtinct.7031]

@saerni.2584 said:So, as (one of the only) P/D thieves currently playing:

• P/D is actually in a pretty good place. Recent changes to Malicious Sneak Attack and normalization of Shadowstrike went a long way to improving the set overall.
• I think the game has become more about hybrid damage than pure condi outside of scourge and Mirage. Condi cleanse is so high that I think the problem isn’t P/D and rather cleanse access has gotten out of hand.
• Body Shot isn’t a bad skill because immobilize can be super good at shutting down enemy movement and letting multiple people land their attacks. That said, the projectile speed is slow. I’d like to see that improved.
• If Daze were added to the set I’d put it in Shadowstrike. It wouldn’t be spammable and the synergy that Babaz mentioned would be to add some extra torment from Pressure Striking. 1/4 second, keep same initiative cost.
• P/D is very mobile and doesn’t need another port in my opinion.

In general, I think people underestimate P/D and assume it doesn’t work without trying to make it work. I played it as core as Daredevil and Deadeye. I prefer DE because it works with the ranged and Stealth aspects of P/D.

yea, however, p/d DE even in full dire/tb is not a walk in the park to play like DD is. Once you get focused, you have very little survival abilities to save you. I like the daze on either shadowstrike or body shot idea. I do concur, with all the recent cleansing buffs, body shot is just not what it used to be. Take soulbeast's doylak stance for example...

[saerni.2584]

@Xtinct.7031 said:

@saerni.2584 said:So, as (one of the only) P/D thieves currently playing:

• P/D is actually in a pretty good place. Recent changes to Malicious Sneak Attack and normalization of Shadowstrike went a long way to improving the set overall.
• I think the game has become more about hybrid damage than pure condi outside of scourge and Mirage. Condi cleanse is so high that I think the problem isn’t P/D and rather cleanse access has gotten out of hand.
• Body Shot isn’t a bad skill because immobilize can be super good at shutting down enemy movement and letting multiple people land their attacks. That said, the projectile speed is slow. I’d like to see that improved.
• If Daze were added to the set I’d put it in Shadowstrike. It wouldn’t be spammable and the synergy that Babaz mentioned would be to add some extra torment from Pressure Striking. 1/4 second, keep same initiative cost.
• P/D is very mobile and doesn’t need another port in my opinion.

In general, I think people underestimate P/D and assume it doesn’t work without trying to make it work. I played it as core as Daredevil and Deadeye. I prefer DE because it works with the ranged and Stealth aspects of P/D.

yea, however, p/d DE even in full dire/tb is not a walk in the park to play like DD is. Once you get focused, you have very little survival abilities to save you. I like the daze on either shadowstrike or body shot idea. I do concur, with all the recent cleansing buffs, body shot is just not what it used to be. Take soulbeast's doylak stance for example...

With DE take a combo of Power/Vitality/Condi and the Grieving Stats. That will get you HP and the crit damage you need to sustain the malice mechanic.

To survival, you need Shadowstep and Shadow Meld with Mercy. The Stunbreaks combined with stealth are good for survival.

I’m on Christmas Break until Sunday. I’ll try to post a video discussing and demonstrating gameplay after I get back.

[HitNine.2568]

I'm really happy you decided to post this in your own thread instead of mine—you have come up with some great ideas for Anet to think about. Let's just hope we will get some love in the next patch or two.

[dDuff.3860]

Here are some P/d deadeye shenanigans: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/355361371

[DemonSeed.3528]

@"dDuff.3860" said:Here are some P/d deadeye shenanigans: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/355361371

Do you feel there is more pressure with signet of agility vs rollforinitiative (in the sense you can do more shots with rfi)? I've tried switching between silentscope/payback and panicstrike/revealedtraining so atm not sticking with anything (just depends on situation). I am however testing this out in wvw hehe.

[saerni.2584]

I only have my macbook so I don't have the ability to record anything worth watching. I did take some screens to show my build for both WvW and sPvP. I'll upload some footage after I have the chance to record a few matches and fights. I'll probably avoid doing a full explanation and just answer questions people have about the build in the comments here to make the process faster.

https://imgur.com/43lvqVZhttps://imgur.com/tOWN14yhttps://imgur.com/SpqHUQ3

@Jack Redline.5379 : I'm going to respond to your recent post in this thread rather than the other one. You had questioned what I meant by pressure and seemed to misunderstand a few things about the build. To answer your concerns, generally I'd say that many professions have cleanse mechanics that are either based on reactions or on meeting conditional requirements (being hit above a certain percentage health or blocking a hit, etc).

• Players who need to react (push a button or two to cleanse) are much more rattled by power damage and may be slow enough that you get an extra few ticks out of conditions. Hybrid builds still hit hard enough with power damage that people are less aware that condi damage is roughly 30-40% of the DPS.
• Players who need to meet certain requirements to cleanse will be more concerned with avoiding your power damage than strictly maintaining the maximum cleanse rate. This means they will often take more condi damage than they would in the pure condi matchup.
• You also seemed to think only Shadowstrike does damage in the build. That is, however, not the case. There are damage sources in CnD, in Dancing Dagger and in the marked skills.

A few additional notes:

• Hybrid benefits DE the most because malice builds up on critical hits. You need to have a base crit rate of at least 40%. My build lets you get permanent fury so you will be doing around 60% crit rate, 65% in sPvP. This, however, doesn't include food so you should have comparable crit rates in both modes.
• Where WvW and PvP stats can differ most is in how much condi damage (stat) and ferocity you can also have. With Wizard's amulet in sPvP there is no ferocity but in WvW you can get an additional 20% critical hit damage via grieving stats. Wizard's amulet puts you at 2050 power and 1150 condi. In WvW you can get 2050+ power with roughly 1400 base condi (more with food active).

[Jack Redline.5379]

@saerni.2584 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 : I'm going to respond to your recent post in this thread rather than the other one. You had questioned what I meant by pressure and seemed to misunderstand a few things about the build. To answer your concerns, generally I'd say that many professions have cleanse mechanics that are either based on reactions or on meeting conditional requirements (being hit above a certain percentage health or blocking a hit, etc).

• Players who need to react (push a button or two to cleanse) are much more rattled by power damage and may be slow enough that you get an extra few ticks out of conditions. Hybrid builds still hit hard enough with power damage that people are less aware that condi damage is roughly 30-40% of the DPS.

Saerni i play condi thief with 17,(something)k life on Deadshot amulet and rune of thorns and not even i have problem with power dmg that thief can spam the hardest hit i got was around 6k and then 2x 2k which is only 10k that leaves me with 7k life. Condi on this build wont be able to down you from 7k life if your oponent will react to you with either stun break/condi cleanse/dodge/block/heal etc. power dmg is really nice against canons. but if you can afford runing canon you are surely competent enough to face this build.

• Players who need to meet certain requirements to cleanse will be more concerned with avoiding your power damage than strictly maintaining the maximum cleanse rate. This means they will often take more condi damage than they would in the pure condi matchup.

i dont really thing this is true but i can give you this point since i am personally relying on spaming condi when ppl dont expect them so okay. anyway the power dmg on this also isnt that fascinating. in PVP you can get 1,9k power only with carrion runes which is also giving you 900 vit and 1,2k condi dmg why would you pick wizzards?

• You also seemed to think only Shadowstrike does damage in the build. That is, however, not the case. There are damage sources in CnD, in Dancing Dagger and in the marked skills.

I was working with shadowstrike because that is the attack that applies the most condi ''powerful'' condi from your attacks set. of course you can do cloak and dagger and bouncing dagger and aa and body shot but that is only spending extra ini which i didnt count in in the example the fight might develop diferently as i said. the scene i shown was only the ''main'' attack show in action since Shadowstrike is main attack to apply condi (if you are not in a group fight and you would rather use BD)

A few additional notes:

• Hybrid benefits DE the most because malice builds up on critical hits. You need to have a base crit rate of at least 40%. My build lets you get permanent fury so you will be doing around 60% crit rate, 65% in sPvP. This, however, doesn't include food so you should have comparable crit rates in both modes.

i coudlnt check ur build but since it is DE i assume you focus on stealthy atatcks so you prolly have one more staelth utility utility you surely run Power or Agility signet and one cleanse which leaves random healing and elite atm i would say you heal with Withdraw and elite would be either DS (since condi) or Shadow meld for extra stealthIf you are not running signet of power you are dealing 0 dmg out of your utilities. Which is waste imoif you use power signet you got 500 power for (10 sec ?) if your enemy is not dead by then you have to keep facing him. which will again bring you to condi stacking. also doesnt Malice stack according to amount of ini you spend? at least that is what i remember...anyway pistol full malice attack can be 1st blocked 2nd dodged and also the surroundings can block it for the enemy

[saerni.2584]

Malice builds 1 point per attack that uses initiative. But it builds 2 points per attack (w/ initiative) that crits. So you build malice more reliably with higher critical damage. Wizards with thief amulet gives you 17k HP, the 2050 power/1150 condi and enough precision for a base 45% crit percent. With Fire for Effect the stolen skills apply fury and might and with One in the Chamber that is effectively permanent fury along with decent might application.

Again, I'm on a laptop that can't really run GW2 and record video (not to mention my keybinds are for an MMO mouse and I don't have that with me). Give me a day or two and I'll demo the build. In the meantime, the above imgur links show the build and the stats you get for both WvW and sPvP.