What nerfs to rampage do you proposed before it gets "Full countered"?

[Dadnir.5038]

@Hitman.5829 said:

@NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:Are you kidding? We warriors need more CC now that every class got tons of stability and stun breakers with the PoF and HoT expansions.There are classes that get 10+ stacks of stability with duration of 11+ sec.

No they don't need more CC, especially coupled with the damage they can inflict. Infact rampage should see the damage nerfed, or 1-2 cc removed but keeping the damage. Warrior has enough CC already, and the fact that you bring up 10+ stacks stab to support your claim, which we know there's only one classes that can reliably do that, is an indication of how much that should not exist. No more CC, no more 5+ stacks of stability for noone on any given class. It is time to start nerfing everything in this game, since it's already out of control damage, cc, sustain, boons wise.

• Sword = 0 CC
• Great Sword = 0 CC
• Axe = 0 CC
• Long bow = 0 CC
• War horn = 0 CC
• Rifle = 1 CC (130 melee range constrain)
• Dagger = 1 CC (only 1 target)
• Shield = 1 CC (only 1 target)
• Mace = 2 CC (only 1 target) (3 CC if equip 2 maces)
• Hammer 3 CC (3 targets average)

The only combination that gives max CC is Mace + Shield and hammer with 6 CC; and the CC are melee restricted. That build makes the warrior the SLOWEST class in GW2 and even the necro can kite the warrior with that build while dealing damage with AoE.

The truth is, warrior CC got heavily rekt by the HoT and PoF expansions. Try playing with that build I gave you and tell me if you manage to stun a mirrage or a thief or a ranger or any class!

Come on don't you forget that warrior have utilities that also CC? "Fear me!", Kick, bull's charge, stomp, staggering banner, rampage, wild blow, headbutt, fullcounter.

[Vancho.8750]

Those slots are too precious to be squandered on bad skills like stomp kick and lol "Fear me". Have you even played war every utility has to be defensive in pvp and in pve has to be banners and the dog excrement bolas. Wild blow Headbutt are from berserker and berserker is dead for any pvp. And someone has to slap you for suggesting Staggering banner. If a skill works is nerfed because people can't dodge slow wind up skills.

[BlackTruth.6813]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:Are you kidding? We warriors need more CC now that every class got tons of stability and stun breakers with the PoF and HoT expansions.There are classes that get 10+ stacks of stability with duration of 11+ sec.

No they don't need more CC, especially coupled with the damage they can inflict. Infact rampage should see the damage nerfed, or 1-2 cc removed but keeping the damage. Warrior has enough CC already, and the fact that you bring up 10+ stacks stab to support your claim, which we know there's only one classes that can reliably do that, is an indication of how much that should not exist. No more CC, no more 5+ stacks of stability for noone on any given class. It is time to start nerfing everything in this game, since it's already out of control damage, cc, sustain, boons wise.

• Sword = 0 CC
• Great Sword = 0 CC
• Axe = 0 CC
• Long bow = 0 CC
• War horn = 0 CC
• Rifle = 1 CC (130 melee range constrain)
• Dagger = 1 CC (only 1 target)
• Shield = 1 CC (only 1 target)
• Mace = 2 CC (only 1 target) (3 CC if equip 2 maces)
• Hammer 3 CC (3 targets average)

The only combination that gives max CC is Mace + Shield and hammer with 6 CC; and the CC are melee restricted. That build makes the warrior the SLOWEST class in GW2 and even the necro can kite the warrior with that build while dealing damage with AoE.

The truth is, warrior CC got heavily rekt by the HoT and PoF expansions. Try playing with that build I gave you and tell me if you manage to stun a mirrage or a thief or a ranger or any class!

Come on don't you forget that warrior have utilities that also CC?

"Fear me!", Kick, bull's charge, stomp, staggering banner, rampage, wild blow, headbutt, fullcounter.

You don't. Use that. Over. Endure Pain. Zerker stance. Signet of Might. Etc. Or. You. Will. Get. Bursted. Blind spammed. Block spammed. To death.

Talking about 7-8-9 skills.

[Dadnir.5038]

@BlackTruth.6813 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Come on don't you forget that warrior have utilities that also CC?

"Fear me!", Kick, bull's charge, stomp, staggering banner, rampage, wild blow, headbutt, fullcounter.

You don't. Use that. Over. Endure Pain. Zerker stance. Signet of Might. Etc. Or. You. Will. Get. Bursted. Blind spammed. Block spammed. To death.

Talking about 7-8-9 skills.

Because you don't use them, they don't exist... I think we should send a note to ANet's devs telling them that over half of the utility skills in game don't exist because "They aren't. Used. Due to. Various. Reasons. (Mainly sPvP. Concern.)"

[YuiRS.8129]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@BlackTruth.6813 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:Come on don't you forget that warrior have utilities that also CC?

"Fear me!", Kick, bull's charge, stomp, staggering banner, rampage, wild blow, headbutt, fullcounter.

You don't. Use that. Over. Endure Pain. Zerker stance. Signet of Might. Etc. Or. You. Will. Get. Bursted. Blind spammed. Block spammed. To death.

Talking about 7-8-9 skills.

Because you don't use them, they don't exist... I think we should send a note to ANet's devs telling them that over half of the utility skills in game don't exist because "They aren't. Used. Due to. Various. Reasons. (Mainly sPvP. Concern.)"

They're not gonna be used in PvE ever. In PvP you need sustain and mobility, so skills without either will just never get used. That's just how the game is with it's restricted build design and balance. If Kick stun breaks, removes condis or something like that, sure, it may see some use.

[Dadnir.5038]

@YuiRS.8129 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:

Because you don't use them, they don't exist... I think we should send a note to ANet's devs telling them that over half of the utility skills in game don't exist because "They aren't. Used. Due to. Various. Reasons. (Mainly sPvP. Concern.)"

They're not gonna be used in PvE ever. In PvP you need sustain and mobility, so skills without either will just never get used. That's just how the game is with it's restricted build design and balance. If Kick stun breaks, removes condis or something like that, sure, it may see some use.

Which is not the issue at hand. These are options that exist, even if one try to deny them with all it's might. The "meta" (most effective tactic available) mentality have seep so much into players mind that they aren't even able to realize that there is room for less efficient tactics. All those tools/skills exist in game and will continue to exist in the futur, building a 9 hard CC build with an elite skill that provide even more CC might be a totally ridiculous thing to do from a practical point of view but, nontheless, it remain a possibility that should not be arbitrarily denied.

All those utilities that provide CC allow non CC weapon builds to have access to CCs. It's up to the player to choose to use them or not. ANet provide the players with those tools and will most likely never provide a weapon set with more CC than there already is.

Because players have a "standards of excellence" that's called the "meta", players restricted themselve and look down on their own main profession. The vanilla game hadn't a better balance but players weren't so attached to the "meta". All utilities were used at that time, not because they were better or balanced, but because there wasn't this arbitral "meta" to reign over the game. The players make or break the "meta", ANet only deliver tools. If a tool isn't meta it's not ANet's fault but just a few players judging them less efficient than other when creating a "meta" build.

This "meta" mentality is worst for the game than bad balance because the only thing that such mentality generate is moving professions toward extrems and that's blind powercreep.

[BlackTruth.6813]

^And "anarchy," or leaving things as is, isn't a real thing either and those "options" are too hard over actual legitimate builds. The reason why the meta exists is because people widely accept certain things as valuable over the other. There is a common ground and people simply agree that kick, stomp, and bolas are useless in sPvP because it is COMMON SENSE that without berserker stance or shake it off for example, you will get blind spammed to death. Warrior is a class that is easily blind spammed and block spammed to death. This is why it should be common sense that kick, stomp, and bolas are bad.

If you are so scared of change, then all the builds in the meta will just go full damage and do damage.

TL;DR If you want to win, you don't use kick stomp and bolas OVER zerker stance, shake it off, signet of might, endure pain, etc. I would like to "see" you use CC Warrior builds on actual good players and see how hard it is.

ANET creates the meta AND in turn affects "common sense" in gw2 logic, not the players "fault" for the meta. Why? It isn't the player's fault there is so many evades and stability in the game right now compared to what it was during launch that CC builds are effectively pointless over builds that can flat out kill without needing much CC.

[ChillyKoti.1928]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@YuiRS.8129 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

Because you don't use them, they don't exist... I think we should send a note to ANet's devs telling them that over half of the utility skills in game don't exist because "They aren't. Used. Due to. Various. Reasons. (Mainly sPvP. Concern.)"

They're not gonna be used in PvE ever. In PvP you need sustain and mobility, so skills without either will just never get used. That's just how the game is with it's restricted build design and balance. If Kick stun breaks, removes condis or something like that, sure, it may see some use.

Which is not the issue at hand. These are options that exist, even if one try to deny them with all it's might. The "meta" (most effective tactic available) mentality have seep so much into players mind that they aren't even able to realize that there is room for less efficient tactics. All those tools/skills exist in game and will continue to exist in the futur, building a 9 hard CC build with an elite skill that provide even more CC might be a totally ridiculous thing to do from a practical point of view but, nontheless, it remain a possibility that should not be arbitrarily denied.

All those utilities that provide CC allow non CC weapon builds to have access to CCs. It's up to the player to choose to use them or not. ANet provide the players with those tools and will most likely never provide a weapon set with more CC than there already is.

Because players have a "standards of excellence" that's called the "meta", players restricted themselve and look down on their own main profession. The vanilla game hadn't a better balance but players weren't so attached to the "meta". All utilities were used at that time, not because they were better or balanced, but because there wasn't this arbitral "meta" to reign over the game. The players make or break the "meta", ANet only deliver tools. If a tool isn't meta it's not ANet's fault but just a few players judging them less efficient than other when creating a "meta" build.

This "meta" mentality is worst for the game than bad balance because the only thing that such mentality generate is moving professions toward extrems and that's blind powercreep.

I once tried a build in pvp that used Banner of Discipline and the trait in discipline that gives you regen near a banner. It's not extremely bad, but I only had one break stun and one condi clean left in my "toolbox".

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

So what nerfs do you propose to be fair so its useful.

What

[Quadox.7834]

This is a game in which elites such as Mass Invisibility, Time Warp, Fiery Greatsword, Summon Elemental, Thieves' Guild, Mortar Kit, Weave Self, Flesh golem and many others exist. This is not overwatch where a single ult is supposed to wipe a team or even a single player. Infact, much of the time elites are weaker than utilities in gw2.

Then there are a few outliers such as rampage, daggerstorm, Strength of the Pack.

[Vancho.8750]

Yeah tell me about it when rampage was on the doubled cd nobody used it and everyone used Signet of rage only for the passive or on berserker Headbutt which is better Kick but worse Bullrush, basically one extra utility skill instead of elite which is really good for warrior cause there isn't much space for abilities.Now that i think about it Rampage is the only Elite that can count as Elite on warrior.

[Girth.9731]

Unpopular opinion here, but I actually think FC is still quite good after the changes.The 1.5 daze is quite nice, and I find that in comination with the No Escape trait it helps to land burst skills or even part of a 100B.

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

@Girth.9731 said:Unpopular opinion here, but I actually think FC is still quite good after the changes.The 1.5 daze is quite nice, and I find that in comination with the No Escape trait it helps to land burst skills or even part of a 100B.

daze doesnt keep them rooted, stun does. And its kinda shit with accessable stunbreak.

[Girth.9731]

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Girth.9731 said:Unpopular opinion here, but I actually think FC is still quite good after the changes.The 1.5 daze is quite nice, and I find that in comination with the No Escape trait it helps to land burst skills or even part of a 100B.

daze doesnt keep them rooted, stun does. And its kinda kitten with accessable stunbreak.

When you combine it with No Escape, FC will cause immob + daze, as well as slow and cripple if you trait for that as well. I find that this combination usually allows me to land a burst skill or at least some good damage.

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

@Girth.9731 said:

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@Girth.9731 said:Unpopular opinion here, but I actually think FC is still quite good after the changes.The 1.5 daze is quite nice, and I find that in comination with the No Escape trait it helps to land burst skills or even part of a 100B.

daze doesnt keep them rooted, stun does. And its kinda kitten with accessable stunbreak.

When you combine it with No Escape, FC will cause immob + daze, as well as slow and cripple if you trait for that as well. I find that this combination usually allows me to land a burst skill or at least some good damage.That is not a full counter trait, there are far more stuns in the spellbreaker arcenal allowing for this same interaction. hard to credit the POS FC for no escapes utility.

[Bashi.8902]

Rampage is fine as it is. Can be kited like crazy, its easy to disengage from, Blinds are still effective as fuck against it and a simple condi bomb from a mirage still melts u during it. Also Healing signet doesnt work while u rampage. Seriously it is FINE. If anything I want monkeys to learn how to play against it. One of the best uses of rampage is literally to disengage with it theese days...... its not like ur gonna do jackshit with it against a mirage/boonbeast. Id rather have 16 stacks of stab lmao.