The reasons Berserker fails

Darknessz.9650 · April 30, 2019

berserker is fine.... takes some practice. the only thing missing is Condi clean xD please add some sort of boon resistance to Condi and berserker is PERFECT :D also you might need to change the berserker Burst if Greatsword burst has been changed because hammer burst is useless...... in berserker mode

Obtena.7952 · April 30, 2019

@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@"Sobx.1758" said:Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Always Angry was removed in the rework. As to the new berserker minors, it's flawed design to have them wed entirely to berserk mode coupled with a mode cooldown the user cannot initiate. Worse still, the mode's activation requires a class resource that has zero function when the mode is on cooldown.

agreed ... the complaint about minor traits is completely valid. When we pick berk e-spec, I'm STILL playing berserker, even when I am not in berserker mode; it's not like I have a 4th trait line that flips over when I'm in non-berserker mode. Being deficient in traits in non-berserker mode is unacceptable. This is non-equivalence in traits.

Sobx.1758 · April 30, 2019

@Obtena.7952 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@"Sobx.1758" said:Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Always Angry was removed in the rework. As to the new berserker minors, it's flawed design to have them wed entirely to berserk mode coupled with a mode cooldown the user cannot initiate. Worse still, the mode's activation requires a class resource that has zero function when the mode is on cooldown.

agreed ... the complaint about minor traits is completely valid. When we pick berk e-spec, I'm STILL playing berserker, even when I am not in berserker mode; it's not like I have a 4th trait line that flips over when I'm in non-berserker mode. Being deficient in traits in non-berserker mode is unacceptable. This is non-equivalence in traits.

No, it's not a valid complaint and berserker isn't the only spec that has minor traits "working only when". Too bad you only care about class comparisons when it supports your point, but the moment it's the opposite you state that comparing classes isn't an argument. It would be cool if you finally made your mind how you feel about that.

That said, I think that's not a valid complaint at all and I already wrote why.

Shadowcat.2680 · April 30, 2019

@Sobx.1758 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Always Angry was removed in the rework. As to the new berserker minors, it's flawed design to have them wed entirely to berserk mode coupled with a mode cooldown the user cannot initiate. Worse still, the mode's activation requires a class resource that has zero function when the mode is on cooldown.

agreed ... the complaint about minor traits is completely valid. When we pick berk e-spec, I'm STILL playing berserker, even when I am not in berserker mode; it's not like I have a 4th trait line that flips over when I'm in non-berserker mode. Being deficient in traits in non-berserker mode is unacceptable. This is non-equivalence in traits.

No, it's not a valid complaint and berserker isn't the only spec that has minor traits "working only when". Too bad you only care about class comparisons when it supports your point, but the moment it's the opposite you state that comparing classes isn't an argument. It would be cool if you finally made your mind how you feel about that.

That said, I think that's not a valid complaint at all and I already wrote why.

Name one other elite spec that combines all mode-specific minors and a mode the user cannot toggle off for the sake of not wasting said mode.

Obtena.7952 · April 30, 2019

@Sobx.1758 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Always Angry was removed in the rework. As to the new berserker minors, it's flawed design to have them wed entirely to berserk mode coupled with a mode cooldown the user cannot initiate. Worse still, the mode's activation requires a class resource that has zero function when the mode is on cooldown.

agreed ... the complaint about minor traits is completely valid. When we pick berk e-spec, I'm STILL playing berserker, even when I am not in berserker mode; it's not like I have a 4th trait line that flips over when I'm in non-berserker mode. Being deficient in traits in non-berserker mode is unacceptable. This is non-equivalence in traits.

No, it's not a valid complaint and berserker isn't the only spec that has minor traits "working only when". Too bad you only care about class comparisons when it supports your point, but the moment it's the opposite you state that comparing classes isn't an argument. It would be cool if you finally made your mind how you feel about that.

That said, I think that's not a valid complaint at all and I already wrote why.

No, the complaint is not that berserker traitline has some minor traits that only work when. I don't care about class comparisons ... I have made NONE EVER in this thread if perhaps in my entire history of posting because I feel very strongly that in this game, the lack of holy trinity makes those comparisons irrelevant. It's sad you continue to attempt to bring that into the discussion with me when I have never made it an issue to begin with. It would be cool if you just dropped it and stopped your attempts to deflect into pedantic arguments.

The complaint is that NONE of the berserker minor traits work when you aren't in berserker mode, making non-berserker mode deficient. It's very reasonable that players expect a baseline of effectiveness when you aren't in berserker mode. That baseline should be the same as any other build and in this case it isn't.

Sobx.1758 · April 30, 2019

@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Always Angry was removed in the rework. As to the new berserker minors, it's flawed design to have them wed entirely to berserk mode coupled with a mode cooldown the user cannot initiate. Worse still, the mode's activation requires a class resource that has zero function when the mode is on cooldown.

agreed ... the complaint about minor traits is completely valid. When we pick berk e-spec, I'm STILL playing berserker, even when I am not in berserker mode; it's not like I have a 4th trait line that flips over when I'm in non-berserker mode. Being deficient in traits in non-berserker mode is unacceptable. This is non-equivalence in traits.

No, it's not a valid complaint and berserker isn't the only spec that has minor traits "working only when". Too bad you only care about class comparisons when it supports your point, but the moment it's the opposite you state that comparing classes isn't an argument. It would be cool if you finally made your mind how you feel about that.

That said, I think that's not a valid complaint at all and I already wrote why.

Name one other elite spec that combines all mode-specific minors and a mode the user cannot toggle off for the sake of not wasting said mode.

Never said anything about 'mode-specific minors', it's a classification you decided to make and limit your argument to. Not being able to "turn it off" also has nothing to do with anything that was said.

Shadowcat.2680 · April 30, 2019

@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Always Angry was removed in the rework. As to the new berserker minors, it's flawed design to have them wed entirely to berserk mode coupled with a mode cooldown the user cannot initiate. Worse still, the mode's activation requires a class resource that has zero function when the mode is on cooldown.

agreed ... the complaint about minor traits is completely valid. When we pick berk e-spec, I'm STILL playing berserker, even when I am not in berserker mode; it's not like I have a 4th trait line that flips over when I'm in non-berserker mode. Being deficient in traits in non-berserker mode is unacceptable. This is non-equivalence in traits.

No, it's not a valid complaint and berserker isn't the only spec that has minor traits "working only when". Too bad you only care about class comparisons when it supports your point, but the moment it's the opposite you state that comparing classes isn't an argument. It would be cool if you finally made your mind how you feel about that.

That said, I think that's not a valid complaint at all and I already wrote why.

Name one other elite spec that combines all mode-specific minors and a mode the user cannot toggle off for the sake of not wasting said mode.

Never said anything about 'mode-specific minors', it's a classification you decided to make and limit your argument to. Not being able to "turn it off" also has nothing to do with anything that was said.

Your exact phrasing was traits "working only when." There is no other elite spec that puts its entire slew of minor traits on a cooldown the user cannot initiate early when needed. Control over the mode's activation and deactivation has everything to do with how well said minors function in actual use.

Obtena.7952 · April 30, 2019

The fact is that the lack of functioning minor traits in non-berserker mode is NOT the only thing that makes berserker espec deficient. If this was the only problem with berserker, this thread wouldn't exist in the first place because as you said, it's not all that unusual. Just picking apart the argument into sections doesn't dispel the complaint as frivolous either. It's ALL of the missing pieces that contribute to the overall deficiency of the espec.

The fact you continue this avenue to dismiss the complainr shows you didn't understand the relationship between the points I made and the deficiency of the class to begin with. It's no wonder you didn't try to address them and continuously stray from the points of the discussion into accusations of me making class comparisons (which is comical if you know my posting history).

Sobx.1758 · April 30, 2019

@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Always Angry was removed in the rework. As to the new berserker minors, it's flawed design to have them wed entirely to berserk mode coupled with a mode cooldown the user cannot initiate. Worse still, the mode's activation requires a class resource that has zero function when the mode is on cooldown.

agreed ... the complaint about minor traits is completely valid. When we pick berk e-spec, I'm STILL playing berserker, even when I am not in berserker mode; it's not like I have a 4th trait line that flips over when I'm in non-berserker mode. Being deficient in traits in non-berserker mode is unacceptable. This is non-equivalence in traits.

No, it's not a valid complaint and berserker isn't the only spec that has minor traits "working only when". Too bad you only care about class comparisons when it supports your point, but the moment it's the opposite you state that comparing classes isn't an argument. It would be cool if you finally made your mind how you feel about that.

That said, I think that's not a valid complaint at all and I already wrote why.

Name one other elite spec that combines all mode-specific minors and a mode the user cannot toggle off for the sake of not wasting said mode.

Never said anything about 'mode-specific minors', it's a classification you decided to make and limit your argument to. Not being able to "turn it off" also has nothing to do with anything that was said.

Your exact phrasing was traits "working only when." There is no other elite spec that puts its entire slew of minor traits on a cooldown the user cannot initiate early when needed. Control over the mode's activation and deactivation has everything to do with how well said minors function in actual use.

Yup, and that's literally the phrasing I've meant to use, there's nothing about your self-made "mode-specific" category. Well, depends on what you mean by the "mode", but it seems you mean some kind of 'form changing' ability in one way or another and if that's what you meant then I stand by what I said. You nitpick a few specs out of the whole game, compare yourself strictly to that and then say it can't take place in the game BASED ON THAT. And btw if you base your argument on class/spec comparisons then I wonder why Obtena never reacted to your (and similar to yours) posts, while also jumping over comparisons whenever they don't fit his side of the argument.

Anyways, minor traits "working only when" aren't anything unseen in this game. And even if they were (but they aren't), that wouldn't be any kind of valid argument, that's just your preference and no shit that you prefer having your downside less noticeable.

Obtena.7952 · April 30, 2019

@"Sobx.1758" said:Anyways, minor traits "working only when" aren't anything unseen in this game. And even if they were (but they aren't), that wouldn't be any kind of valid argument, that's just your preference and no kitten that you prefer having your downside less noticeable.

Correct and if that was the only factor at play here, this thread wouldn't exist. All the factors I list contribute to the overall deficiency of the berserker spec and they are all intertwined as well. It's not just a simple matter of comparing traits to other classes and saying there isn't anything exceptional here. On it's own, berserker is deficient; there is no need to look elsewhere to see it.

Sobx.1758 · April 30, 2019

@Obtena.7952 said:
@"Sobx.1758" said:Anyways, minor traits "working only when" aren't anything unseen in this game. And even if they were (but they aren't), that wouldn't be any kind of valid argument, that's just your preference and no kitten that you prefer having your downside less noticeable.

Correct and if that was the only factor at play here, this thread wouldn't exist. All the factors I list contribute to the overall deficiency of the berserker spec and they are all intertwined as well. It's not just a simple matter of comparing traits to other classes and saying there isn't anything exceptional here. On it's own, berserker is deficient; there is no need to look elsewhere to see it.

So are you saying that berserker spec in berk mode is worse or barely equal to base warrior?

KryTiKaL.3125 · April 30, 2019

@Sobx.1758 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)

Always Angry was removed in the rework. As to the new berserker minors, it's flawed design to have them wed entirely to berserk mode coupled with a mode cooldown the user cannot initiate. Worse still, the mode's activation requires a class resource that has zero function when the mode is on cooldown.

agreed ... the complaint about minor traits is completely valid. When we pick berk e-spec, I'm STILL playing berserker, even when I am not in berserker mode; it's not like I have a 4th trait line that flips over when I'm in non-berserker mode. Being deficient in traits in non-berserker mode is unacceptable. This is non-equivalence in traits.

No, it's not a valid complaint and berserker isn't the only spec that has minor traits "working only when". Too bad you only care about class comparisons when it supports your point, but the moment it's the opposite you state that comparing classes isn't an argument. It would be cool if you finally made your mind how you feel about that.

That said, I think that's not a valid complaint at all and I already wrote why.

It is a valid complaint because Berserk Mode is specifically tied to Berserker and with how Berserk Mode functions now it is actually a significant hindrance in PvP/WvW.

Soulbeast with its Beast Mode does not have all of its Minor traits associated with Beast Mode. Beast Mode is also only on a 10 second cooldown, does not require a build up of a resource and does not remove the Rangers core mechanic the Pet Skill bar, it simply alters it and they also do not lose their Pet Skill bar before entering Beast Mode. It all stays the same.

Soulbeast Minor Traits:

! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elevated_Bond! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Furious_Strength! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Twice_as_Vicious

Holosmith with its Forge Mode is similar, sure, in that its Minor Traits are only in effect in regards the the Heat mechanic or Photon Forge Mode itself, however Photon Forge is on a 1 second cooldown and only has a 6 second cooldown if it overheats. It also does not lose access to its Toolbelt skills prior to entering Forge Mode, which any Engineer player could tell you are significantly important to its gameplay.

Holosmith Minor Traits:

! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Photon_Projector! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heat_Therapy! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Laser%27s_Edge

Druid's Minor traits do not at all specifically or only affect their Celestial Avatar Form. Avatar form is on a 10 second cooldown, has a 15 second duration, and it similarly requires a build up of a resource but before it is activated the Druid is still able to access its Pet Skill bar, which is a core and key component to the class. However the biggest difference here is that the Druid is given the option, in fact the tools, to leave Celestial Avatar form before the duration expires for it.

Druid Minor Traits:

! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Celestial_Being! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Live_Vicariously! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Natural_Mender

Necromancer and Reaper (I would include Scourge but they don't really enter a "mode" like others, they just gain barrier and an AoE attack) both have access to Shroud, in the case of Reaper they get access to a special form of Shroud. Both of these are on a 10 second cooldown, similarly require a build up of resources and their duration can vary depending on how much Life Force is used to activate it. The minimum required is 10% Life Force which does not take much time to build. It can also be manually deactivated. The Minor traits for Reaper actually do not specifically pertain to Reaper's Shroud, also the traits that affect Shroud in general are spread across multiple Specialization lines. Some have more than others, in fact the Reaper specialization itself only has 2 traits (Reaper's Onslaught and Blighter's Boon) that actually affect Shroud, both of them also being Grandmaster traits, because traits that affect Shroud are spread throughout many other Specialization lines for Necromancer.

Core Necromancer Traits that affect Death Shroud/Reaper's Shroud:Spite:

! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Might! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Awaken_the_Pain! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signets_of_Suffering! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spiteful_SpiritCurses:! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plague_Sending! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Furious_Demise! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Path_of_Corruption! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Shroud! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armored_ShroudDeath Magic:! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shrouded_Removal! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadly_Strength! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Beyond_the_Veil! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_SanctuaryBlood Magic:!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_from_Death!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vampiric_Presence!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Martyr!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/TransfusionSoul Reaping:!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unyielding_Blast!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Shadows!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sinister_Shroud!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soul_Barbs!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Foot_in_the_Grave!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death_Perception!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dhuumfire

Reaper Minor Traits:

!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shroud_Knight!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shivers_of_Dread!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cold_Shoulder

As for Berserker? The only traits that affect Berserk Mode are within the Berserker Specialization line, there are traits that affect burst skills in general across other Specialization lines however the biggest difference here is that Berserk Mode is the only Burst the class gets access to before being within Berserk Mode, you can not exit Berserk Mode manually, and it is on a 15 second cooldown on top of requiring the Warrior to build 3 full bars of Adrenaline again to activate.

Core Warrior Traits that Affect Burst Skills:Strength:

!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Building_Momentum!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker%27s_PowerArms:!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Furious_Burst!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sundering_Burst!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burst_PrecisionDefense:!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Health!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_IreDiscipline:!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Versatile_Power!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burst_Mastery

Berserker Minor Traits:

!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Primal_Rage!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burst_of_Aggression!https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fatal_Frenzy

The closest comparison we can make is between Necro and Warrior but at the same time Warrior has significantly less traits that interact with Burst skills and even less that actually interact with Berserk Mode, the mechanic that Berserker is now entirely built around, and it even has much worse functionality. It has a longer cooldown than Shroud, requires much more of the class specific resource to activate and you are unable to manually exit Berserk Mode. Avatar form on Druid is also similar in functionality, but despite that the Druid is still given the tool to manually exit Avatar form.

I am well aware that someone has said that "balance isn't justified by comparisons between classes" but I very much disagree with that. PvP is a mode where these classes interact with each other in a "competition" so to speak, each class fights against the other. So personally I think it would be very wrong to not look at balance in terms of "Well, this class is clearly over-performing compared to these other classes".

Think of it like a huge nonuple-sided scale; each plate on each side of the scale representing a specific class. Should a class be over-performing in any regard, be it performance, damage, sustain, etc then the scale tips more to that side meaning there is "more" on the plate for that side. To balance it out you either need to add more to the other plates of the scale or take something away from the side that has tilted too far. Then at the same time if you remove too much from one of the plates the scale will yet again tilt too much and something will have to be added or taken away.

Sobx.1758 · April 30, 2019

@KryTiKaL.3125I see what specs you used in your great comparison post and I won't bother reading through. You might want to re-read what I actually wrote before spamming another wall of text of irrelevant information that in no way answers to what I said. I really know those specs' traits. But hey, I appreaciate the enthusiasm :D

Obtena.7952 · April 30, 2019

@Sobx.1758 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:Anyways, minor traits "working only when" aren't anything unseen in this game. And even if they were (but they aren't), that wouldn't be any kind of valid argument, that's just your preference and no kitten that you prefer having your downside less noticeable.

Correct and if that was the only factor at play here, this thread wouldn't exist. All the factors I list contribute to the overall deficiency of the berserker spec and they are all intertwined as well. It's not just a simple matter of comparing traits to other classes and saying there isn't anything exceptional here. On it's own, berserker is deficient; there is no need to look elsewhere to see it.

So are you saying that berserker spec in berk mode is worse or barely equal to base warrior?

I didn't say either way and I don't see the need to either. I've made my points and they are valid.

KryTiKaL.3125 · April 30, 2019

@Sobx.1758 said:@"KryTiKaL.3125"I see what specs you used in your great comparison post and I won't bother reading through. You might want to re-read what I actually wrote before spamming another wall of text of irrelevant information that in no way answers to what I said. I really know those specs' traits. But hey, I appreaciate the enthusiasm :D

...I'm trying to point out to you that its a valid complaint because Berserk Mode works worse because of these things. I put the wall of text with all of that information because otherwise I feel like there would just be more baseless statements made like "its not the only spec with 'works only when' " traits. Of course it isn't, but that isn't the point. Its how the rest of it is put together that makes it a problem and why those Minor Traits for Berserker really aren't helpful with the rework.

It would be a different case if Berserk Mode functioned more like other modes, which I think is the entire concept you seem to be missing.

I somehow get this feeling that you think Warrior just in a general sense is overpowered or something.

Sobx.1758 · April 30, 2019

@Obtena.7952 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:Anyways, minor traits "working only when" aren't anything unseen in this game. And even if they were (but they aren't), that wouldn't be any kind of valid argument, that's just your preference and no kitten that you prefer having your downside less noticeable.

Correct and if that was the only factor at play here, this thread wouldn't exist. All the factors I list contribute to the overall deficiency of the berserker spec and they are all intertwined as well. It's not just a simple matter of comparing traits to other classes and saying there isn't anything exceptional here. On it's own, berserker is deficient; there is no need to look elsewhere to see it.

So are you saying that berserker spec in berk mode is worse or barely equal to base warrior?

I didn't say either way and I don't see the need to either. I've made my points and they are valid.

Cool. Because you know it's stronger. Somehow that's acceptable, but it doesn't stop you from complaining that "you're worse than core warrior while out of berk mode". It is worse than core warrior and it's supposed to be. I already wrote it, if you can't accept power swings like that, stick to core and go wild with your fx skills. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Shadowcat.2680 · April 30, 2019

@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Obtena.7952 said:
@Shadowcat.2680 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:Also your complaint about "minor traits" is pretty wierd to me. When you pick berk e-spec, it's directly tied to playing berserker and using its mechanic, which is why the minor traits are connected to it. It's not really anything out of ordinary and I'm not sure how (in your opening post) you went from "meaningful choices" to "minor traits being related to espec mechanic is bad". That just doesn't seem like a valid point to me. (and you still get the benefits of 'always angry' while not in berk)