Asuran.5469 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Rampage needs a longer cool down. This skill alone has allowed it to replace Thief as a +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YuiRS.8129 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 @mortrialus.3062 said:Rampage can get nerfed back to having a 180 second cooldown and warriors would still use it. Which means that is probably what should happen. Only because other Elites on Warrior are some of the worst in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 @YuiRS.8129 said:@mortrialus.3062 said:Rampage can get nerfed back to having a 180 second cooldown and warriors would still use it. Which means that is probably what should happen. Only because other Elites on Warrior are some of the worst in the game.Oh poor bbySpellbreaker was a top tier build back before rampage got it's cooldown halved and they were usually using Signet of Rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 @mortrialus.3062 said:@YuiRS.8129 said:@mortrialus.3062 said:Rampage can get nerfed back to having a 180 second cooldown and warriors would still use it. Which means that is probably what should happen. Only because other Elites on Warrior are some of the worst in the game.Oh poor bbySpellbreaker was a top tier build back before rampage got it's cooldown halved and they were usually using Signet of Rage. Should be noted, warriors only did this for the shocking Aura from Rune of Surging. On its own, Rage signet is pretty useless; especially for Spellbreakers that have little to no trouble with adrenaline or might stacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 All these complaints about Rampage are actually amusing, but its getting less so as time goes on.Rampage is not that overtuned, it is not OP. I say this as a Warrior who never uses it.First off it is extremely predictable. You will almost always see the same sequence of skills thrown out. Throw Boulder into the Stomp, or vice versa, then the dash into kick. The boulder throw and Stomp are the biggest things to avoid and once you do that Rampage is essentially useless.Secondly it denies you access to any other skill other than the new bar of skills it gives you. While these skills are heavy on the CC side, if you are 1v1ing a Warrior and they use Rampage you can use a defensive cooldown that may be an invuln or block or even just maintain stability on yourself then you can trade damage with them. So long as you just avoid the 2 important CCs then its a non issue.I will admit that Rampage is a bit stronger in sPvP because of the tiny size of the capture points but in any other scenario Rampage is just the most predictable elite. Even in the scenario of side noding in sPvP I still don't find it all that strong, maybe for most people they get overwhelmed by it but honestly I feel like that entirely depends on how you as an individual is playing against them. Its only a 10 second duration, they really only get to use each of the strong CC skills once maybe twice in the case of Throw Boulder if they are quick enough.This is why I find sPvP balance such a disaster, a gross disaster at that. It turns skills that are otherwise a non-issue into something that actually has some weird value due to the tiny, tiny, tiny size of Conquest Capture Points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praqtos.9035 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 @KryTiKaL.3125 said:All these complaints about Rampage are actually amusing, but its getting less so as time goes on.Rampage is not that overtuned, it is not OP. I say this as a Warrior who never uses it.First off it is extremely predictable. You will almost always see the same sequence of skills thrown out. Throw Boulder into the Stomp, or vice versa, then the dash into kick. The boulder throw and Stomp are the biggest things to avoid and once you do that Rampage is essentially useless.Secondly it denies you access to any other skill other than the new bar of skills it gives you. While these skills are heavy on the CC side, if you are 1v1ing a Warrior and they use Rampage you can use a defensive cooldown that may be an invuln or block or even just maintain stability on yourself then you can trade damage with them. So long as you just avoid the 2 important CCs then its a non issue.I will admit that Rampage is a bit stronger in sPvP because of the tiny size of the capture points but in any other scenario Rampage is just the most predictable elite. Even in the scenario of side noding in sPvP I still don't find it all that strong, maybe for most people they get overwhelmed by it but honestly I feel like that entirely depends on how you as an individual is playing against them. Its only a 10 second duration, they really only get to use each of the strong CC skills once maybe twice in the case of Throw Boulder if they are quick enough.This is why I find sPvP balance such a disaster, a gross disaster at that. It turns skills that are otherwise a non-issue into something that actually has some weird value due to the tiny, tiny, tiny size of Conquest Capture Points.W O W. Trying to pretend like rampage has huge downside like poor warrior cant use his other skills... poor little babies....just get 20k extra health(depends on your current % health tho),damage reduction by 25%, MOVEMENT-IMPEDING condi durations are reduced by 33% (immobilize being removed with 3 skills lol).Dash on demolisher amulet hit for 9-10.6k , autoattacks 5-7k,throw boulder 9k... not like you must dodge all bursts and especially bullcharge to not get instagibbed. Even if warrior rampage gets 180s cooldown, everyone will still use it anyway. Moa should be 60s cd because its not a problem for you to dodge, right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 @praqtos.9035 said:@"KryTiKaL.3125" said:All these complaints about Rampage are actually amusing, but its getting less so as time goes on.Rampage is not that overtuned, it is not OP. I say this as a Warrior who never uses it.First off it is extremely predictable. You will almost always see the same sequence of skills thrown out. Throw Boulder into the Stomp, or vice versa, then the dash into kick. The boulder throw and Stomp are the biggest things to avoid and once you do that Rampage is essentially useless.Secondly it denies you access to any other skill other than the new bar of skills it gives you. While these skills are heavy on the CC side, if you are 1v1ing a Warrior and they use Rampage you can use a defensive cooldown that may be an invuln or block or even just maintain stability on yourself then you can trade damage with them. So long as you just avoid the 2 important CCs then its a non issue.I will admit that Rampage is a bit stronger in sPvP because of the tiny size of the capture points but in any other scenario Rampage is just the most predictable elite. Even in the scenario of side noding in sPvP I still don't find it all that strong, maybe for most people they get overwhelmed by it but honestly I feel like that entirely depends on how you as an individual is playing against them. Its only a 10 second duration, they really only get to use each of the strong CC skills once maybe twice in the case of Throw Boulder if they are quick enough.This is why I find sPvP balance such a disaster, a gross disaster at that. It turns skills that are otherwise a non-issue into something that actually has some weird value due to the tiny, tiny, tiny size of Conquest Capture Points.W O W. Trying to pretend like rampage has huge downside like poor warrior cant use his other skills... poor little babies....just get 20k extra health(depends on your current % health tho),damage reduction by 25%, MOVEMENT-IMPEDING condi durations are reduced by 33% (immobilize being removed with 3 skills lol).Dash on demolisher amulet hit for 9-10.6k , autoattacks 5-7k,throw boulder 9k... not like you must dodge all bursts and especially bullcharge to not get instagibbed. Even if warrior rampage gets 180s cooldown, everyone will still use it anyway. Moa should be 60s cd because its not a problem for you to dodge, right ?That isn't even the downside, they can't sustain by getting adrenal health stacks or might stacks if they are running strength/discipline/spellbreaker but that isn't even the actual downside. Rampage can be very easily avoided and kited because of its limited 10 second duration and the 2 skills that are actually a significant threat (Throw Boulder and Stomp) because of the CC chaining. Also "all bursts" meaning the 2 that they would have access to, both of which have very telegraphed animations or in the case of FC just...don't proc it, which I understand is not so easy when outnumbering the Spellbreaker and I do also personally believe that they should get rid of the whole "FC still procs Adrenal Health even if it hits nothing" function because it just carries most people.Like I said, in sPvP it can probably feel like its a lot stronger because players feel stuck inside of the limited radius available inside the capture points, but ultimately its just gimmicky and not that strong. Also like I said, I don't even use Rampage because of those reasons. I'd rather have the added Adrenaline gain off Signet of Rage with the Might, Fury and Swiftness or use Battle Standard for the ranged down finish or rally (even though I hate downstate and rally).This is the problem with sPvP, its so rigid and structured it leaves very little room for actual healthy counterplay because you're stuck in this little capture point that is the width of a toothpick so any sort of meaningful disengage is detrimental rather than helpful that the "meta" tactic just turns into "oh just leave it and rotate to another capture point to +1 or decap". While helpful for sure in the current climate of sPvP and for sure the preferred "tactic", it just feels silly and just leads to complaints like these against otherwise non-issue skills. Try fighting a Warrior in WvW and when they use Rampage just...kite it. Break LoS, proc your stability, or just use your mobility skills to kite them out while avoiding the CC skills. Guarantee you'll have an easier time. You see the vast difference and why sPvP, in my opinion, is just a balance nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praqtos.9035 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 At this point you sounds like a broken record... You pretend its not OP/overtuned, I just said why it is.You become unstoppable killing machine, with ridiculous 72s cd, that twoshot people while having demolisher amulet . You dont have to just avoid 2 skills ,you have to avoid all of them. Even when you completely failed your rampage you forced your opponent to waste a lot of his cooldowns or give up a node completely.You think 10s is not long? No invul/block lasts that long LOL . Mobility skills? Too bad rampage has 2 mobility skills and throw boulder that will act like a hot seeking missle if you try to leap away.Who even care about point when they see rampage? Even with 180s cd traited it would be 144, way more acceptable cd rather than 72s cd. Each time warrior use rampage you have 2 options : run or die.Even another "strong" transform as Lichform is 140s cd and doesnt have trait that can reduce it. Rampage in its current form have no right to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 @praqtos.9035 said:You think 10s is not long? No invul/block lasts that long LOL . Mobility skills? Too bad rampage has 2 mobility skills and throw boulder that will act like a hot seeking missle if you try to leap away. Well... Unless you're an engineer running HGH. Then you get the exact same skill for longer than warrior would. Rampage isn't an invul/block either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praqtos.9035 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:@praqtos.9035 said:You think 10s is not long? No invul/block lasts that long LOL . Mobility skills? Too bad rampage has 2 mobility skills and throw boulder that will act like a hot seeking missle if you try to leap away. Well... Unless you're an engineer running HGH. Then you get the exact same skill for longer than warrior would. Rampage isn't an invul/block either.And what is your point with it? 50% for rampage, just in case, may be you dont know. Not like Its my fault HGH prolong duration of elixirs.I never said rampage is invul/block either ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 @praqtos.9035 said:@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:@praqtos.9035 said:You think 10s is not long? No invul/block lasts that long LOL . Mobility skills? Too bad rampage has 2 mobility skills and throw boulder that will act like a hot seeking missle if you try to leap away. Well... Unless you're an engineer running HGH. Then you get the exact same skill for longer than warrior would. Rampage isn't an invul/block either.And what is your point with it? 50% for rampage, just in case, may be you dont know. Not like Its my fault HGH prolong duration of elixirs.I never said rampage is invul/block either ?Well you did say that no invul/block lasts 10s. If not comparing that to rampage, then i've no clue what that's meant to mean honestly; just useless information if i'm being honest. Otherwise my point is; if you think 10s is too long, engineer gets the exact same skill for 12s. If you were counting rampage as a block/invul, then there's one that lasts even longer than what you're complaining about. If you weren't, again; I question what relevance there was in bringing up blocks and invuls in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 @KryTiKaL.3125 said:All these complaints about Rampage are actually amusing, but its getting less so as time goes on.Rampage is not that overtuned, it is not OP. I say this as a Warrior who never uses it.First off it is extremely predictable. You will almost always see the same sequence of skills thrown out. Throw Boulder into the Stomp, or vice versa, then the dash into kick. The boulder throw and Stomp are the biggest things to avoid and once you do that Rampage is essentially useless.Secondly it denies you access to any other skill other than the new bar of skills it gives you. While these skills are heavy on the CC side, if you are 1v1ing a Warrior and they use Rampage you can use a defensive cooldown that may be an invuln or block or even just maintain stability on yourself then you can trade damage with them. So long as you just avoid the 2 important CCs then its a non issue.I will admit that Rampage is a bit stronger in sPvP because of the tiny size of the capture points but in any other scenario Rampage is just the most predictable elite. Even in the scenario of side noding in sPvP I still don't find it all that strong, maybe for most people they get overwhelmed by it but honestly I feel like that entirely depends on how you as an individual is playing against them. Its only a 10 second duration, they really only get to use each of the strong CC skills once maybe twice in the case of Throw Boulder if they are quick enough.This is why I find sPvP balance such a disaster, a gross disaster at that. It turns skills that are otherwise a non-issue into something that actually has some weird value due to the tiny, tiny, tiny size of Conquest Capture Points.Trading damage with something that has 3 times the HP, 25% damage reduction and hitting for twice as much sounds like a great idea to get yourself killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 @praqtos.9035 said:@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:@praqtos.9035 said:You think 10s is not long? No invul/block lasts that long LOL . Mobility skills? Too bad rampage has 2 mobility skills and throw boulder that will act like a hot seeking missle if you try to leap away. Well... Unless you're an engineer running HGH. Then you get the exact same skill for longer than warrior would. Rampage isn't an invul/block either.And what is your point with it? 50% for rampage, just in case, may be you dont know. Not like Its my fault HGH prolong duration of elixirs.I never said rampage is invul/block either ?Your ability is OP!But you also have OP abilitiesNot my problem.Nice!Also, don't you think that you overexaderating allmightyness of rampage at least a bit (a lot actually)? Come on. You can't have your point standing on an overexaderated point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Largo Cifer.3495 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Remove cc from throw boulder and take out rampage from the physical skill category into a stance. Easy balancing and more sensible cos rampage is like a hulk stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@"KryTiKaL.3125" said:All these complaints about Rampage are actually amusing, but its getting less so as time goes on.Rampage is not that overtuned, it is not OP. I say this as a Warrior who never uses it.First off it is extremely predictable. You will almost always see the same sequence of skills thrown out. Throw Boulder into the Stomp, or vice versa, then the dash into kick. The boulder throw and Stomp are the biggest things to avoid and once you do that Rampage is essentially useless.Secondly it denies you access to any other skill other than the new bar of skills it gives you. While these skills are heavy on the CC side, if you are 1v1ing a Warrior and they use Rampage you can use a defensive cooldown that may be an invuln or block or even just maintain stability on yourself then you can trade damage with them. So long as you just avoid the 2 important CCs then its a non issue.I will admit that Rampage is a bit stronger in sPvP because of the tiny size of the capture points but in any other scenario Rampage is just the most predictable elite. Even in the scenario of side noding in sPvP I still don't find it all that strong, maybe for most people they get overwhelmed by it but honestly I feel like that entirely depends on how you as an individual is playing against them. Its only a 10 second duration, they really only get to use each of the strong CC skills once maybe twice in the case of Throw Boulder if they are quick enough.This is why I find sPvP balance such a disaster, a gross disaster at that. It turns skills that are otherwise a non-issue into something that actually has some weird value due to the tiny, tiny, tiny size of Conquest Capture Points.Trading damage with something that has 3 times the HP, 25% damage reduction and hitting for twice as much sounds like a great idea to get yourself killed.I've done it, hasn't gotten me killed yet. Like I said before, the important skills to avoid are Throw Boulder and Stomp. If you have the defensive cooldowns available, and depending on your class, you can very easily trade damage with them even if they have the damage reduction. Guardians have blinds and blocks they can time to negate the CCs and harder hitting damage skills paired with dodges and even running out the timer with Renewed Focus, Engineers have Elixir S which can give them a toolbelt skill to stealth themselves to avoid getting targeted and use the invuln the extend that, especially if they actually get hit with a CC, Herald has the Glint heal which will negate any damage you might take after getting CC'd if the Warrior continues to hit you while it is active, and so many more from essentially any class.Like I suggested in a previous post, try the counterplay methods I detailed there (kiting, disengage, etc) and then see how "overtuned" and "OP" Rampage is. It isn't. Most people don't time dodges properly, most people don't use cooldowns effectively, most people don't use other mechanics effectively to ensure sustain or to negate damage. Once you learn how to do those things Rampage is not really a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 @"praqtos.9035" said:At this point you sounds like a broken record... You pretend its not OP/overtuned, I just said why it is.You become unstoppable killing machine, with ridiculous 72s cd, that twoshot people while having demolisher amulet . You dont have to just avoid 2 skills ,you have to avoid all of them. Even when you completely failed your rampage you forced your opponent to waste a lot of his cooldowns or give up a node completely.You think 10s is not long? No invul/block lasts that long LOL . Mobility skills? Too bad rampage has 2 mobility skills and throw boulder that will act like a hot seeking missle if you try to leap away.Who even care about point when they see rampage? Even with 180s cd traited it would be 144, way more acceptable cd rather than 72s cd. Each time warrior use rampage you have 2 options : run or die.Even another "strong" transform as Lichform is 140s cd and doesnt have trait that can reduce it. Rampage in its current form have no right to exist.You said why you think it is OP/overtuned, I explained my position on why it isn't. You really don't become an unstoppable killing machine, you become a beefcake with easily predicted attacks.10s really isn't a long time, especially if we are talking about you getting into some 1v1 fight with them on a side node or something similar, not to mention like I already said as well the Rampage only lasts long enough to get throw boulder and stomp off realistically once, maybe twice. The dash and kick are more likely able to be used twice during its duration. Throw Boulder also has a range limit, 900 is long but not so long that you can't out kite it. Again like I said a lot of the "problem" with this comes from sPvP and its forcing you into not disengaging or kiting as much as one should be able to do, especially against the rampant and abundant AoE vomit in the game now that is extremely prevalent in sPvP. Rampage becomes a problem only in the context of sPvP and that is why I find sPvP balance atrocious because its such a rigid, structured environment it leaves little room for actual healthy counterplay that doesn't just involve "rotate to a different point". Maybe if Conquest functioned more like some freakin Overwatch gamemode it could actually be called Esport worthy because at least in that game, regardless of your like/dislike of it, you at least have to team fight properly to push and capture a point rather than this "Oh just move to another point and decap/cap it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praqtos.9035 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 @KryTiKaL.3125 said:You said why you think it is OP/overtuned, I explained my position on why it isn't. You really don't become an unstoppable killing machine, you become a beefcake with easily predicted attacks.You being in a denial doesnt help the situation tbh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 @praqtos.9035 said:@KryTiKaL.3125 said:You said why you think it is OP/overtuned, I explained my position on why it isn't. You really don't become an unstoppable killing machine, you become a beefcake with easily predicted attacks.You being in a denial doesnt help the situation tbh...In denial of what? I said I don't use it nor do I intend to use it because of the reasons I listed and explained to you. There is no denial about it, I just acknowledge the reality and the aspects that technically make Rampage a problem and its not the skill itself...its the game mode. Take out the rigid structure of Conquest and the Capture Points and where does that leave Rampage? Not a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praqtos.9035 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 @KryTiKaL.3125 said:@praqtos.9035 said:@KryTiKaL.3125 said:You said why you think it is OP/overtuned, I explained my position on why it isn't. You really don't become an unstoppable killing machine, you become a beefcake with easily predicted attacks.You being in a denial doesnt help the situation tbh...In denial of what? I said I don't use it nor do I intend to use it because of the reasons I listed and explained to you. There is no denial about it, I just acknowledge the reality and the aspects that technically make Rampage a problem and its not the skill itself...its the game mode. Take out the rigid structure of Conquest and the Capture Points and where does that leave Rampage? Not a problem.What is your problem ...? You keep babbling about conquest on PVP forum... and blame it .... what?Talking with you makes no sense ,never had,so I'll stop here :joy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 @KryTiKaL.3125 said:@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@KryTiKaL.3125 said:All these complaints about Rampage are actually amusing, but its getting less so as time goes on.Rampage is not that overtuned, it is not OP. I say this as a Warrior who never uses it.First off it is extremely predictable. You will almost always see the same sequence of skills thrown out. Throw Boulder into the Stomp, or vice versa, then the dash into kick. The boulder throw and Stomp are the biggest things to avoid and once you do that Rampage is essentially useless.Secondly it denies you access to any other skill other than the new bar of skills it gives you. While these skills are heavy on the CC side, if you are 1v1ing a Warrior and they use Rampage you can use a defensive cooldown that may be an invuln or block or even just maintain stability on yourself then you can trade damage with them. So long as you just avoid the 2 important CCs then its a non issue.I will admit that Rampage is a bit stronger in sPvP because of the tiny size of the capture points but in any other scenario Rampage is just the most predictable elite. Even in the scenario of side noding in sPvP I still don't find it all that strong, maybe for most people they get overwhelmed by it but honestly I feel like that entirely depends on how you as an individual is playing against them. Its only a 10 second duration, they really only get to use each of the strong CC skills once maybe twice in the case of Throw Boulder if they are quick enough.This is why I find sPvP balance such a disaster, a gross disaster at that. It turns skills that are otherwise a non-issue into something that actually has some weird value due to the tiny, tiny, tiny size of Conquest Capture Points.Trading damage with something that has 3 times the HP, 25% damage reduction and hitting for twice as much sounds like a great idea to get yourself killed.I've done it, hasn't gotten me killed yet. Like I said before, the important skills to avoid are Throw Boulder and Stomp. If you have the defensive cooldowns available, and depending on your class, you can very easily trade damage with them even if they have the damage reduction. Guardians have blinds and blocks they can time to negate the CCs and harder hitting damage skills paired with dodges and even running out the timer with Renewed Focus, Engineers have Elixir S which can give them a toolbelt skill to stealth themselves to avoid getting targeted and use the invuln the extend that, especially if they actually get hit with a CC, Herald has the Glint heal which will negate any damage you might take after getting CC'd if the Warrior continues to hit you while it is active, and so many more from essentially any class.Like I suggested in a previous post, try the counterplay methods I detailed there (kiting, disengage, etc) and then see how "overtuned" and "OP" Rampage is. It isn't. Most people don't time dodges properly, most people don't use cooldowns effectively, most people don't use other mechanics effectively to ensure sustain or to negate damage. Once you learn how to do those things Rampage is not really a problem.Let's entertain your scenario for a bit. Let's say you have absolutely everything off cooldown. (Guard perspective). You have X2 aegis, X2 blinds, X2 dodge and 3 sec invuln on your elite. This in theory equals around 10 seconds of mitigation. Unless the warrior popped frenzy before. But let's say he didn't.You have now successfully negated everything rampage can do. (You can't realistically kite a war on a guard)What happens now? You blew sword symbols, you blew focus 5. Focus 4 is free FC food against SB, you can't really use that. This means you're stuck on GS. Not only do you not have any defensives up for bulls charge, rush, whirling attack, arcing slice or dagger F1 boonrip. This one elite either baits out every defensive or it pretty much kills you. Let's go over further and say you live till the next rampage 72 seconds later. Your defensives are not up yet and you straight up lose.You see how this is an issue now? Guard has 1 dodge every 10 seconds. No endurance regen, no vigor. This makes the "just dodge LUL" and the "just kite LUL" arguments pretty void. Don't you think? Also, don't even get me started on reckless dodger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 @praqtos.9035 said:@KryTiKaL.3125 said:@praqtos.9035 said:@KryTiKaL.3125 said:You said why you think it is OP/overtuned, I explained my position on why it isn't. You really don't become an unstoppable killing machine, you become a beefcake with easily predicted attacks.You being in a denial doesnt help the situation tbh...In denial of what? I said I don't use it nor do I intend to use it because of the reasons I listed and explained to you. There is no denial about it, I just acknowledge the reality and the aspects that technically make Rampage a problem and its not the skill itself...its the game mode. Take out the rigid structure of Conquest and the Capture Points and where does that leave Rampage? Not a problem.What is your problem ...? You keep babbling about conquest on PVP forum... and blame it .... what?Talking with you makes no sense ,never had,so I'll stop here :joy: Yeah, thats the point you are missing. sPvP balance is inherently problematic because it negates a key component to counterplay; disengage and kiting. You can do a little bit of it but ultimately you are still stuck in a relatively small area due to the capture points. This problem becomes negated when in a much more open environment, thus adding to your counterplay options in a scenario where Rampage is used by a Warrior.sPvP is a nightmare of a mode because of Conquests rigid and structured environment, which is exactly as the name suggests; Structured Player versus Player. Why do you think the meta becomes so rigid? Why do you think the tactics used are so rigid? It just doesn't leave very much room for diversity and it makes balancing for it extremely unhealthy because no matter what you do you won't escape the fact that the mode, and the meta, is entirely based around the capture points rather than based around any individual player skill.Why do you think certain individuals who I won't name have been so easily able to loophole their way into the top spots in the Ranked Leaderboard? Why people just generally don't care about Ranked seasons, why the sPvP population has dwindled so much? Its an atrocious environment that they tried to make for Esports and ESL pulled out for a reason and its because it makes for an atrocious competitive environment.That is what I have been trying to explain through these posts, the problem doesn't lie in the skill, it lies in the actual game mode. Imagine if they brought GW1 GvG into the game, where it was a full, decently sized, map with two "forts" on either side (no not Stronghold, that was a poor mans imitation and it didn't do well because they tried to make it a freakin MOBA), and the fighting consistently focused on maintaining that Morale Boost for your team to refresh Revives or to negate death penalties. Imagine if it just wasn't all centered around these tiny little capture points. Rampage isn't exactly the most useful elite for Warrior to use in say a 8v8 scenario, too much stability coming from Firebrands or otherwise, not to mention healing and you get much better use out of Winds of Disenchantment or Battle Standard due to the group support.@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@KryTiKaL.3125 said:@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:@KryTiKaL.3125 said:All these complaints about Rampage are actually amusing, but its getting less so as time goes on.Rampage is not that overtuned, it is not OP. I say this as a Warrior who never uses it.First off it is extremely predictable. You will almost always see the same sequence of skills thrown out. Throw Boulder into the Stomp, or vice versa, then the dash into kick. The boulder throw and Stomp are the biggest things to avoid and once you do that Rampage is essentially useless.Secondly it denies you access to any other skill other than the new bar of skills it gives you. While these skills are heavy on the CC side, if you are 1v1ing a Warrior and they use Rampage you can use a defensive cooldown that may be an invuln or block or even just maintain stability on yourself then you can trade damage with them. So long as you just avoid the 2 important CCs then its a non issue.I will admit that Rampage is a bit stronger in sPvP because of the tiny size of the capture points but in any other scenario Rampage is just the most predictable elite. Even in the scenario of side noding in sPvP I still don't find it all that strong, maybe for most people they get overwhelmed by it but honestly I feel like that entirely depends on how you as an individual is playing against them. Its only a 10 second duration, they really only get to use each of the strong CC skills once maybe twice in the case of Throw Boulder if they are quick enough.This is why I find sPvP balance such a disaster, a gross disaster at that. It turns skills that are otherwise a non-issue into something that actually has some weird value due to the tiny, tiny, tiny size of Conquest Capture Points.Trading damage with something that has 3 times the HP, 25% damage reduction and hitting for twice as much sounds like a great idea to get yourself killed.I've done it, hasn't gotten me killed yet. Like I said before, the important skills to avoid are Throw Boulder and Stomp. If you have the defensive cooldowns available, and depending on your class, you can very easily trade damage with them even if they have the damage reduction. Guardians have blinds and blocks they can time to negate the CCs and harder hitting damage skills paired with dodges and even running out the timer with Renewed Focus, Engineers have Elixir S which can give them a toolbelt skill to stealth themselves to avoid getting targeted and use the invuln the extend that, especially if they actually get hit with a CC, Herald has the Glint heal which will negate any damage you might take after getting CC'd if the Warrior continues to hit you while it is active, and so many more from essentially any class.Like I suggested in a previous post, try the counterplay methods I detailed there (kiting, disengage, etc) and then see how "overtuned" and "OP" Rampage is. It isn't. Most people don't time dodges properly, most people don't use cooldowns effectively, most people don't use other mechanics effectively to ensure sustain or to negate damage. Once you learn how to do those things Rampage is not really a problem.Let's entertain your scenario for a bit. Let's say you have absolutely everything off cooldown. (Guard perspective). You have X2 aegis, X2 blinds, X2 dodge and 3 sec invuln on your elite. This in theory equals around 10 seconds of mitigation. Unless the warrior popped frenzy before. But let's say he didn't.You have now successfully negated everything rampage can do. (You can't realistically kite a war on a guard)What happens now? You blew sword symbols, you blew focus 5. Focus 4 is free FC food against SB, you can't really use that. This means you're stuck on GS. Not only do you not have any defensives up for bulls charge, rush, whirling attack, arcing slice or dagger F1 boonrip. This one elite either baits out every defensive or it pretty much kills you. Let's go over further and say you live till the next rampage 72 seconds later. Your defensives are not up yet and you straight up lose.You see how this is an issue now? Guard has 1 dodge every 10 seconds. No endurance regen, no vigor. This makes the "just dodge LUL" and the "just kite LUL" arguments pretty void. Don't you think? Also, don't even get me started on reckless dodger.I can reply to this the same way I replied just above.Rampage maybe needs a CD increase, I've never argued against that, but people really need to understand that the problem really is not with the skill so that more constructive and better balance changes can be discussed and even maybe Anet can actually do something with PvP like add more modes or just something adjacent to sPvP like Heroes' Ascent coming back, or GvG, etc because the more people don't acknowledge the problem that Conquest creates within itself as a "competitive" PvP mode then the less Anet and others will be able to make meaningful changes to this game to try and drag it out of the hole it dug for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falan.1839 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 I don't understand why they left Rampage intact in this "mini balance patch". It's like they always have to miss something. Tuning down Scrapper and Rev is right (I can't tell yet if the amount of nerf was sufficient), but leaving Rampage untouched is a big no go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 @"Falan.1839" said:I don't understand why they left Rampage intact in this "mini balance patch". It's like they always have to miss something. Tuning down Scrapper and Rev is right (I can't tell yet if the amount of nerf was sufficient), but leaving Rampage untouched is a big no go.Mini means mini. They can get Rampage and the other overtuned items in their next focused balancing. This was stellar for a quick update, even though it hit Arc Divider and I thought sundering burst would be enough. Still p. targeted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengu.7481 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 saying rampage is fine is like saying holo is fine with having prime light beam as an ammo skill on 3 charges. noone wants that for good reason. dosnt matter the game mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovu.7560 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Don't lengthen the cooldown. If you're going to adjust something, adjust it in some way that doesn't increase the cooldown. I never equip skills that have a recharge time that's long enough for me to afk and make a sandwich during -- regardless of what that skill does.~ Kovu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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