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I like how awful this class is every time I tried to come back to it


LazySummer.2568

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@otto.5684 said:@Jski.6180 and @"LazySummer.2568", if you guys just bothered to read the remainder of my post. To summarize, staff nerf is not the cause of ele issues and buffing it will not resolve said issues. There are far more important issues that need to be addressed.

It IS the cause of a big issue. Take a look at Lava Font, for example. This skill used to do on average 5K - 7K, but then it got nerfed by -40%. Why? We don't know. Nobody complained about it. It wasn't a big deal. Nobody ever said, "Oh, we should nerf Lava Font, because it hits too hard". It's not rocket science to move out of the field, and it's not so obscure that you can't see it. It was once our main source of damage, but after the childish nerfs, we are lucky to get about 2K-4K out of it.

Regardless of how OP ele dps was back then would it really be close to OP in today's version of the game? If they brought back ele's dps to what it was I'd still prob be out burst by some if the other classes that also have more hp and sustain lol.

Dont forget about barrier as well the amount of temp. hp that classes (dps classes even) can stack up hitting for 10k is pointless now.

Ele is a doomed class and its only getting worst with each passing day.

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@"Dahir.4158" said:

@otto.5684 said:@Jski.6180 and @"LazySummer.2568", if you guys just bothered to read the remainder of my post. To summarize, staff nerf is not the cause of ele issues and buffing it will not resolve said issues. There are far more important issues that need to be addressed.

It IS the cause of a big issue. Take a look at Lava Font, for example. This skill used to do on average 5K - 7K, but then it got nerfed by -40%. Why? We don't know. Nobody complained about it. It wasn't a big deal. Nobody ever said, "Oh, we should nerf Lava Font, because it hits too hard". It's not rocket science to move out of the field, and it's not so obscure that you can't see it. It was once our main source of damage, but after the childish nerfs, we are lucky to get about 2K-4K out of it.

Not trying to single you out but this is sort of what I mean. Lava font is fine. Staff Weaver in particular is probably in the best shape of all builds, the problem is that people want things from it that it will simply never provide them. People want staff weaver to be on par with sw/d weaver - it never will be, it was not designed to be. A staff weaver that knows their stuff is ALWAYS top damage in comparison to other classes/builds in wvw zergs, and can break through tanky frontlines by coordinating their bomb with the tag (which entails more than just simply dropping meteor shower and lava font).

Any meta comp that doesn't have their head up their butt (and believe me, meta groups that avoid weavers exist - they are not very smart) runs at least 2 staff weavers in a squad of 25 with the exception of GvG groups where that is more rare, but still acceptable if the weavers (sometimes core staff ele) are particularly talented. It does not need any buffs, if you buff staff weaver you will just make me and other staff weaver mains VERY OP and people will cry about it and then it will be nerfed again.

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@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@otto.5684 said:@Jski.6180 and @"LazySummer.2568", if you guys just bothered to read the remainder of my post. To summarize, staff nerf is not the cause of ele issues and buffing it will not resolve said issues. There are far more important issues that need to be addressed.

It IS the cause of a big issue. Take a look at Lava Font, for example. This skill used to do on average 5K - 7K, but then it got nerfed by -40%. Why? We don't know. Nobody complained about it. It wasn't a big deal. Nobody ever said, "Oh, we should nerf Lava Font, because it hits too hard". It's not rocket science to move out of the field, and it's not so obscure that you can't see it. It was once our main source of damage, but after the childish nerfs, we are lucky to get about 2K-4K out of it.

Not trying to single you out but this is sort of what I mean. Lava font is fine. Staff Weaver in particular is probably in the best shape of all builds, the problem is that people want things from it that it will simply never provide them. People want staff weaver to be on par with sw/d weaver - it never will be, it was not designed to be. A staff weaver that knows their stuff is ALWAYS top damage in comparison to other classes/builds in wvw zergs, and can break through tanky frontlines by coordinating their bomb with the tag (which entails more than just simply dropping meteor shower and lava font).

Any meta comp that doesn't have their head up their butt (and believe me, meta groups that avoid weavers exist - they are not very smart) runs at least 2 staff weavers in a squad of 25 with the exception of GvG groups where that is more rare, but still acceptable if the weavers (sometimes core staff ele) are particularly talented. It does not need any buffs, if you buff staff weaver you will just make me and other staff weaver mains VERY OP and people will cry about it and then it will be nerfed again.

Nah, I don't agree with you on that.

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@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@otto.5684 said:@Jski.6180 and @"LazySummer.2568", if you guys just bothered to read the remainder of my post. To summarize, staff nerf is not the cause of ele issues and buffing it will not resolve said issues. There are far more important issues that need to be addressed.

It IS the cause of a big issue. Take a look at Lava Font, for example. This skill used to do on average 5K - 7K, but then it got nerfed by -40%. Why? We don't know. Nobody complained about it. It wasn't a big deal. Nobody ever said, "Oh, we should nerf Lava Font, because it hits too hard". It's not rocket science to move out of the field, and it's not so obscure that you can't see it. It was once our main source of damage, but after the childish nerfs, we are lucky to get about 2K-4K out of it.

Not trying to single you out but this is sort of what I mean. Lava font is fine. Staff Weaver in particular is probably in the best shape of all builds, the problem is that people want things from it that it will simply never provide them. People want staff weaver to be on par with sw/d weaver - it never will be, it was not designed to be. A staff weaver that knows their stuff is ALWAYS top damage in comparison to other classes/builds in wvw zergs, and can break through tanky frontlines by coordinating their bomb with the tag (which entails more than just simply dropping meteor shower and lava font).

Any meta comp that doesn't have their head up their butt (and believe me, meta groups that avoid weavers exist - they are not very smart) runs at least 2 staff weavers in a squad of 25 with the exception of GvG groups where that is more rare, but still acceptable if the weavers (sometimes core staff ele) are particularly talented. It does not need any buffs, if you buff staff weaver you will just make me and other staff weaver mains VERY OP and people will cry about it and then it will be nerfed again.

Often though numbers from the 3ed partly programed are more illusion and tools for you to see how your doing vs other classes of the same type. There a lot of info being left out when your looking at raw numbers only. I would not think anet is using them to balance the classes.

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@"Dahir.4158" said:Nah, I don't agree with you on that.

Great rebuttal. I'm defeated. We'll change our comps now because you don't agree with us.

@Jski.6180 said:Often though numbers from the 3ed partly programed are more illusion and tools for you to see how your doing vs other classes of the same type. There a lot of info being left out when your looking at raw numbers only. I would not think anet is using them to balance the classes.

That's true, damage is not the only thing that matters, but a staff weaver is only concerned with numbers (damage) and staying alive. That is their role.

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@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:I'm so very conflicted on this subject. On one hand, ele could use some quality of life fixes, some improvements here and there to make it seriously on-par with the other classes/builds out there - particularly in the defensive aspect in my opinion.

On the other hand, I must sound like a broken record when I re-affirm to people that I just cannot relate to the vast majority of these problems. I just don't have the same problems everyone seems to complain about. I find solutions and make viable builds because I've learned how to use them, when to use them, where to use them, I know other classes/builds well which allows me to counter them etc ... and I must sound like a very egotistical broken record, but I CAN'T relate. I don't think the problem is necessarily elementalist; to a very significant degree it's players who have not yet accepted that the class you picked is DIFFICULT. I sincerely want to detail my experiences as an ele in all 3 game modes, but I know for a fact that most people will interpret it as e-kitten stroking. And look, I've heard all of the "I have so and so AP, raid clears, I'm such and such rank, I've been playing for x amount of years, and I still have trouble on ele" stuff and I don't understand how it isn't obvious to people that the issue isn't the game at that point.

And why would any reasonable person want to believe that it is just the game, and not themselves as players? If it's the game, then you're just screwed no matter what you do. But if it's you, then that's actually GREAT news, because that means you can at least change how you play - adapt and improve...

I will probably receive some smug comments by the more disagreeable personalities on this forum, or be outright flamed for saying this, but I don't think I will regret what I said. I said it politely, and for the sake of the class, not myself, and I genuinely believe it to be true. THAT BEING SAID, YES, ele needs a few improvements! If anet is reading this - I am not saying to leave it as it is! We could really use a few buffs to defensive capabilities ... but as players we must adjust regardless.

You adapt to the world, the world does not adapt to you.

That's the boat I'm in. The thing with many of these claims is that they're not only exaggerated, they're flat out wrong. For example, so many people complain that weaver doesn't have good CC, while I'm over here going Gale Strike -> Polaric Leap -> Earthquake -> Updraft in quick succession, on demand.

That's just one example. There's many others, but there's no use in bringing them up. All you'll get is hyperbolic complaints and what-about-isms.

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@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:Nah, I don't agree with you on that.

Great rebuttal. I'm defeated. We'll change our comps now because you don't agree with us.

@Jski.6180 said:Often though numbers from the 3ed partly programed are more illusion and tools for you to see how your doing vs other classes of the same type. There a lot of info being left out when your looking at raw numbers only. I would not think anet is using them to balance the classes.

That's true, damage is not the only thing that matters, but a staff weaver is only concerned with numbers (damage) and staying alive. That is their role.

Weaver roll is the same as core ele just a bit different soft cc base off of your atument and dmg. Water not dmg its a support soft cc Fire is dmg and burning Air is hard cc and dmg Earth is soft cc and bleeding. That the roll of ele there is nothing in this game that is pure dmg they do dmg and other effects. Its the other effects that are very important as dmg often is gear base more then any thing else. Boon strip will not get stronger due to your gear for the most part soft cc is not stronger due to gear (longer duration not that important). Even support your getting most from your class then your gear. Its your dmg and dmg alone its about your gear as every class has the same dmg base power crit dmg etc..

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@Jski.6180 said:Weaver roll is the same as core ele just a bit different soft cc base off of your atument and dmg. Water not dmg its a support soft cc Fire is dmg and burning Air is hard cc and dmg Earth is soft cc and bleeding. That the roll of ele there is nothing in this game that is pure dmg they do dmg and other effects. Its the other effects that are very important as dmg often is gear base more then any thing else. Boon strip will not get stronger due to your gear for the most part soft cc is not stronger due to gear (longer duration not that important). Even support your getting most from your class then your gear. Its your dmg and dmg alone its about your gear as every class has the same dmg base power crit dmg etc..

Ok yeah, CC is important too and I make sure to throw a few around even during my WvW zerg rotation as well, and especially in PvE where it is essential. I think I just worded that last response to you not very carefully - I was speaking purely about WvW. In WvW zergs and organized comps, your main role is to do damage (and the occasional earth 4 and water 4 drop). Elsewhere, ele is more than just damage, for sure.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:That's the boat I'm in. The thing with many of these claims is that they're not only exaggerated, they're flat out wrong. For example, so many people complain that weaver doesn't have good CC, while I'm over here going Gale Strike -> Polaric Leap -> Earthquake -> Updraft in quick succession, on demand.

That's just one example. There's many others, but there's no use in bringing them up. All you'll get is hyperbolic complaints and what-about-isms.

Absolutely. It's very refreshing to hear I'm not the only one.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:For example, so many people complain that weaver doesn't have good CC, while I'm over here going Gale Strike -> Polaric Leap -> Earthquake -> Updraft in quick succession, on demand.Indeed, in PvE the ‘ele is bad at cc’ is mostly a stigma that originated from staff weaver builds which rotations (fire/earth only) did not incorporate much hard cc (‘sides Unsteady Ground, if you can even count that). Alternatively, there’s BttH and then two of those skills disappear if you don’t wanna nuke on dps (cuz then might as well play another class), while also leaving the other two only usable in ‘windows’, rather on demand.

  • If we examine FA sc/w temp, they only have cyclone and tidal wave, and may supply dazing strikes via lightning field combo.
  • If we examine core staff, they only have gust, static field and unsteady ground, which the last two I don’t even know whether you can count. Ice bow if taken has deep freeze, I guess.

I just think by now, players just assume that eles are not gonna be breaking bars when there’s more reliable people around to do it.

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@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:I'm so very conflicted on this subject. On one hand, ele could use some quality of life fixes, some improvements here and there to make it seriously on-par with the other classes/builds out there - particularly in the defensive aspect in my opinion.

On the other hand, I must sound like a broken record when I re-affirm to people that I just cannot relate to the vast majority of these problems. I just don't have the same problems everyone seems to complain about. I find solutions and make viable builds because I've learned how to use them, when to use them, where to use them, I know other classes/builds well which allows me to counter them etc ... and I must sound like a very egotistical broken record, but I CAN'T relate. I don't think the problem is necessarily elementalist; to a very significant degree it's players who have not yet accepted that the class you picked is DIFFICULT. I sincerely want to detail my experiences as an ele in all 3 game modes, but I know for a fact that most people will interpret it as e-kitten stroking. And look, I've heard all of the "I have so and so AP, raid clears, I'm such and such rank, I've been playing for x amount of years, and I still have trouble on ele" stuff and I don't understand how it isn't obvious to people that the issue isn't the game at that point.

And why would any reasonable person want to believe that it is just the game, and not themselves as players? If it's the game, then you're just screwed no matter what you do. But if it's you, then that's actually GREAT news, because that means you can at least change how you play - adapt and improve...

I will probably receive some smug comments by the more disagreeable personalities on this forum, or be outright flamed for saying this, but I don't think I will regret what I said. I said it politely, and for the sake of the class, not myself, and I genuinely believe it to be true. THAT BEING SAID, YES, ele needs a few improvements! If anet is reading this - I am not saying to leave it as it is! We could really use a few buffs to defensive capabilities ... but as players we must adjust regardless.

You adapt to the world, the world does not adapt to you.

Frustration leads to anger and anger leads to overstatements , it happens all the times at both sides of the spectrum : people asking for buffs and those asking for nerfs. With that said there are things on ele which are made diffucult for the sake of it and not really to remain in theme with the skill requirement ideology

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@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@Jski.6180 said:Weaver roll is the same as core ele just a bit different soft cc base off of your atument and dmg. Water not dmg its a support soft cc Fire is dmg and burning Air is hard cc and dmg Earth is soft cc and bleeding. That the roll of ele there is nothing in this game that is pure dmg they do dmg and other effects. Its the other effects that are very important as dmg often is gear base more then any thing else. Boon strip will not get stronger due to your gear for the most part soft cc is not stronger due to gear (longer duration not that important). Even support your getting most from your class then your gear. Its your dmg and dmg alone its about your gear as every class has the same dmg base power crit dmg etc..

Ok yeah, CC is important too and I make sure to throw a few around even during my WvW zerg rotation as well, and especially in PvE where it is essential. I think I just worded that last response to you not very carefully - I was speaking purely about WvW. In WvW zergs and organized comps, your main role is to do damage (and the occasional earth 4 and water 4 drop). Elsewhere, ele is more than just damage, for sure.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:That's the boat I'm in. The thing with many of these claims is that they're not only exaggerated, they're flat out wrong. For example, so many people complain that weaver doesn't have good CC, while I'm over here going Gale Strike -> Polaric Leap -> Earthquake -> Updraft in quick succession, on demand.

That's just one example. There's many others, but there's no use in bringing them up. All you'll get is hyperbolic complaints and what-about-isms.

Absolutely. It's very refreshing to hear I'm not the only one.

No i was thinking wvw only soft cc mean much less in pve then in wvw or realty pvp over all because pve is an incomplete game type.

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lol at people calling weaver cc good when you have to go out of your way to lose dps by attuning to a low dps attunment just to chain a series of low break bar skills with high cast times when there are several classes out there that can instantly do the same or more breakbar damage than your chain of 4~5 skills with only 1 or 2 skills.

it's basically as good as firebrand's cc which is shit when you compare it to actual good cc classes (eg. mesmer, rev, thief, warrior, druid).

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@LazySummer.2568 said:lol at people calling weaver cc good when you have to go out of your way to lose dps by attuning to a low dps attunment just to chain a series of low break bar skills with high cast times when there are several classes out there that can instantly do the same or more breakbar damage than your chain of 4~5 skills with only 1 or 2 skills.

it's basically as good as firebrand's cc which is kitten when you compare it to actual good cc classes (eg. mesmer, rev, thief, warrior, druid).

My Thoughts exactly lol, compared to other classes weavers cc is not on par with other classes, hate to say it tbh.

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@XxzaverxX.6790 said:

@"LazySummer.2568" said:lol at people calling weaver cc good when you have to go out of your way to lose dps by attuning to a low dps attunment just to chain a series of low break bar skills with high cast times when there are several classes out there that can instantly do the same or more breakbar damage than your chain of 4~5 skills with only 1 or 2 skills.

it's basically as good as firebrand's cc which is kitten when you compare it to actual good cc classes (eg. mesmer, rev, thief, warrior, druid).

My Thoughts exactly lol, compared to other classes weavers cc is not on par with other classes, hate to say it tbh.

For sure they are not on par with other classes nor is core ele cc but they do add up when you run weaver. You can kind of say the same for tempest but all of tempest cc are melee ranged only viable for one build.

Core ele for sure has the worst of it then say weaver and tempest over all for dmg support and cc. This dose show up in the elite spec and its only though the added effect of the elite spec that makes them kind of ok. Sadly every other class in the game dose it way better and you will be asked to level / play another class before ppl let you come as an ele to most game types in gw2 unless you are an KNOWN ele. Effectively an npc with a name and not just a "player" or a unique mob.

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@Jski.6180 said:Cellofrag wvw builds are very much skill base builds if you dont dodge at the right time your dead and even landing dmg at the wrong time your also dead.

Just want to chime in to state this absolutely false, marshal weaver is very very forgiving and an absolute nightmare to kill.

I play it all the time, and I literally have only 3 fingers on my keyboard hand, so it's definitely not that difficult.

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@Helicity.3416 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Cellofrag wvw builds are very much skill base builds if you dont dodge at the right time your dead and even landing dmg at the wrong time your also dead.

Just want to chime in to state this absolutely false, marshal weaver is very very forgiving and an absolute nightmare to kill.

I play it all the time, and I literally have only 3 fingers on my keyboard hand, so it's definitely not
that
difficult.

Not every one can play like that. Most ppl would call sword an op weapons as well.

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@Jski.6180 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Cellofrag wvw builds are very much skill base builds if you dont dodge at the right time your dead and even landing dmg at the wrong time your also dead.

Just want to chime in to state this absolutely false, marshal weaver is very very forgiving and an absolute nightmare to kill.

I play it all the time, and I literally have only 3 fingers on my keyboard hand, so it's definitely not
that
difficult.

Not every one can play like that. Most ppl would call sword an op weapons as well.

Not saying weaver is not kinda weak or more demanding to play than most.

But I don't find marshal weaver that much harder to play than my other characters because the sustain and evasion is monstrous.

As mentioned I'm pretty heavily handicapped, and I'm also old and slow :p , so I'm pretty convinced it's definitely something most people can do with just a bit of practice!

It's less mechanically demanding than FA (to me at least)

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@Helicity.3416 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Cellofrag wvw builds are very much skill base builds if you dont dodge at the right time your dead and even landing dmg at the wrong time your also dead.

Just want to chime in to state this absolutely false, marshal weaver is very very forgiving and an absolute nightmare to kill.

I play it all the time, and I literally have only 3 fingers on my keyboard hand, so it's definitely not
that
difficult.

Not every one can play like that. Most ppl would call sword an op weapons as well.

Not saying weaver is not kinda weak or more demanding to play than most.

But I don't find marshal weaver
that
much harder to play than my other characters because the sustain and evasion is monstrous.

As mentioned I'm pretty heavily handicapped, and I'm also old and slow :p , so I'm pretty convinced it's definitely something most people can do with just a bit of practice!

It's less mechanically demanding than FA (to me at least)

Vs a real roaming class they will eat you alive then. Sword and realty over all melee ele is worthless in a large scale fight.

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@Jski.6180 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Cellofrag wvw builds are very much skill base builds if you dont dodge at the right time your dead and even landing dmg at the wrong time your also dead.

Just want to chime in to state this absolutely false, marshal weaver is very very forgiving and an absolute nightmare to kill.

I play it all the time, and I literally have only 3 fingers on my keyboard hand, so it's definitely not
that
difficult.

Not every one can play like that. Most ppl would call sword an op weapons as well.

Not saying weaver is not kinda weak or more demanding to play than most.

But I don't find marshal weaver
that
much harder to play than my other characters because the sustain and evasion is monstrous.

As mentioned I'm pretty heavily handicapped, and I'm also old and slow :p , so I'm pretty convinced it's definitely something most people can do with just a bit of practice!

It's less mechanically demanding than FA (to me at least)

Vs a real roaming class they will eat you alive then. Sword and realty over all melee ele is worthless in a large scale fight.

Obviously it's not for blob fights, what does that have to do with the discussion.

I win most 1v1s with sword weaver, the only thing that's really really impossible is warrior really. (Engineer just becomes an infinite stalemate).

But it seems you're not actually interested in hearing any opinions, because you think the build is really hard so I'll leave it at that.

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@Helicity.3416 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Cellofrag wvw builds are very much skill base builds if you dont dodge at the right time your dead and even landing dmg at the wrong time your also dead.

Just want to chime in to state this absolutely false, marshal weaver is very very forgiving and an absolute nightmare to kill.

I play it all the time, and I literally have only 3 fingers on my keyboard hand, so it's definitely not
that
difficult.

Not every one can play like that. Most ppl would call sword an op weapons as well.

Not saying weaver is not kinda weak or more demanding to play than most.

But I don't find marshal weaver
that
much harder to play than my other characters because the sustain and evasion is monstrous.

As mentioned I'm pretty heavily handicapped, and I'm also old and slow :p , so I'm pretty convinced it's definitely something most people can do with just a bit of practice!

It's less mechanically demanding than FA (to me at least)

Vs a real roaming class they will eat you alive then. Sword and realty over all melee ele is worthless in a large scale fight.

Obviously it's not for blob fights, what does that have to do with the discussion.

I win most 1v1s with sword weaver, the only thing that's really really impossible is warrior really. (Engineer just becomes an infinite stalemate).

But it seems you're not actually interested in hearing any opinions, because you think the build is
really hard
so I'll leave it at that.

The game not balanced arone 1v1 its is balanced with 5 player vs 5 player groups or dps bench marks of boss fights. It means a lot to why ele is the way it is today. Ele always had weaker aoe effect and other classes had less then 5 target caps making there skills ok to hit harder and do more. But over time anet up there number of targets to 5 for the other classes but anet never went back to buff the effects of ele skills. So because this game is balanced with 5 targets in mind ele skills are out dated as they where made with aoe in mind and more up to date skills simply are better because of them being build with less targets in mind.

As for the dps bench marks balancing you find ele skills are cut off because big targets where a rare thing in gw2 to start with. So skill with big aoe and more then one hit where balanced but as anet added in bigger targets because anet raid devs do not know how to balance there raids vs how it looks ele skills that where able to hit big aoe because seen too strong and there for nerfed hard. Yet other classes who skills where not build in for big aoe where made with the ideal of doing most dmg in a smaller hit so there dps simply was buffed over and over.

This is the ele class right now every miss step and frailer of anet make alive.

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@Jski.6180 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Cellofrag wvw builds are very much skill base builds if you dont dodge at the right time your dead and even landing dmg at the wrong time your also dead.

Just want to chime in to state this absolutely false, marshal weaver is very very forgiving and an absolute nightmare to kill.

I play it all the time, and I literally have only 3 fingers on my keyboard hand, so it's definitely not
that
difficult.

Not every one can play like that. Most ppl would call sword an op weapons as well.

Not saying weaver is not kinda weak or more demanding to play than most.

But I don't find marshal weaver
that
much harder to play than my other characters because the sustain and evasion is monstrous.

As mentioned I'm pretty heavily handicapped, and I'm also old and slow :p , so I'm pretty convinced it's definitely something most people can do with just a bit of practice!

It's less mechanically demanding than FA (to me at least)

Vs a real roaming class they will eat you alive then. Sword and realty over all melee ele is worthless in a large scale fight.

Obviously it's not for blob fights, what does that have to do with the discussion.

I win most 1v1s with sword weaver, the only thing that's really really impossible is warrior really. (Engineer just becomes an infinite stalemate).

But it seems you're not actually interested in hearing any opinions, because you think the build is
really hard
so I'll leave it at that.

The game not balanced arone 1v1 its is balanced with 5 player vs 5 player groups or dps bench marks of boss fights. It means a lot to why ele is the way it is today. Ele always had weaker aoe effect and other classes had less then 5 target caps making there skills ok to hit harder and do more. But over time anet up there number of targets to 5 for the other classes but anet never went back to buff the effects of ele skills. So because this game is balanced with 5 targets in mind ele skills are out dated as they where made with aoe in mind and more up to date skills simply are better because of them being build with less targets in mind.

As for the dps bench marks balancing you find ele skills are cut off because big targets where a rare thing in gw2 to start with. So skill with big aoe and more then one hit where balanced but as anet added in bigger targets because anet raid devs do not know how to balance there raids vs how it looks ele skills that where able to hit big aoe because seen too strong and there for nerfed hard. Yet other classes who skills where not build in for big aoe where made with the ideal of doing most dmg in a smaller hit so there dps simply was buffed over and over.

This is the ele class right now every miss step and frailer of anet make alive.

I like how you move the goal posts with every post.

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@Helicity.3416 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Cellofrag wvw builds are very much skill base builds if you dont dodge at the right time your dead and even landing dmg at the wrong time your also dead.

Just want to chime in to state this absolutely false, marshal weaver is very very forgiving and an absolute nightmare to kill.

I play it all the time, and I literally have only 3 fingers on my keyboard hand, so it's definitely not
that
difficult.

Not every one can play like that. Most ppl would call sword an op weapons as well.

Not saying weaver is not kinda weak or more demanding to play than most.

But I don't find marshal weaver
that
much harder to play than my other characters because the sustain and evasion is monstrous.

As mentioned I'm pretty heavily handicapped, and I'm also old and slow :p , so I'm pretty convinced it's definitely something most people can do with just a bit of practice!

It's less mechanically demanding than FA (to me at least)

Vs a real roaming class they will eat you alive then. Sword and realty over all melee ele is worthless in a large scale fight.

Obviously it's not for blob fights, what does that have to do with the discussion.

I win most 1v1s with sword weaver, the only thing that's really really impossible is warrior really. (Engineer just becomes an infinite stalemate).

But it seems you're not actually interested in hearing any opinions, because you think the build is
really hard
so I'll leave it at that.

The game not balanced arone 1v1 its is balanced with 5 player vs 5 player groups or dps bench marks of boss fights. It means a lot to why ele is the way it is today. Ele always had weaker aoe effect and other classes had less then 5 target caps making there skills ok to hit harder and do more. But over time anet up there number of targets to 5 for the other classes but anet never went back to buff the effects of ele skills. So because this game is balanced with 5 targets in mind ele skills are out dated as they where made with aoe in mind and more up to date skills simply are better because of them being build with less targets in mind.

As for the dps bench marks balancing you find ele skills are cut off because big targets where a rare thing in gw2 to start with. So skill with big aoe and more then one hit where balanced but as anet added in bigger targets because anet raid devs do not know how to balance there raids vs how it looks ele skills that where able to hit big aoe because seen too strong and there for nerfed hard. Yet other classes who skills where not build in for big aoe where made with the ideal of doing most dmg in a smaller hit so there dps simply was buffed over and over.

This is the ele class right now every miss step and frailer of anet make alive.

I like how you move the goal posts with every post.

Just explaining every bit by bit why this is an awful class and to point out how lost ppl are when they think the ele class is "fine."

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@Helicity.3416 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Cellofrag wvw builds are very much skill base builds if you dont dodge at the right time your dead and even landing dmg at the wrong time your also dead.

Just want to chime in to state this absolutely false, marshal weaver is very very forgiving and an absolute nightmare to kill.

I play it all the time, and I literally have only 3 fingers on my keyboard hand, so it's definitely not
that
difficult.

They are way more forgiving specs in wvw than marshal weaver..it's the reason you don't see that many eles roaming...

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:Cellofrag wvw builds are very much skill base builds if you dont dodge at the right time your dead and even landing dmg at the wrong time your also dead.

Just want to chime in to state this absolutely false, marshal weaver is very very forgiving and an absolute nightmare to kill.

I play it all the time, and I literally have only 3 fingers on my keyboard hand, so it's definitely not
that
difficult.

They are way more forgiving specs in wvw than marshal weaver..it's the reason you don't see that many eles roaming...

What it comes down to is just how much is going agned the ele classes it has the lowest hp and armor in the game as well as having the fewest non wepon def skills as well as non active def skills "skills that make you unable to do any thing during them" (i still do not get why high hp classes have so much take 0 or evasion).

If your class has mid to high hp why dose it need so many def skills at some point your making the tankly classes play more like glass canons and your glass canons must play as if they are only bunkers.

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@LazySummer.2568 said:lol at people calling weaver cc good when you have to go out of your way to lose dps by attuning to a low dps attunment just to chain a series of low break bar skills with high cast times when there are several classes out there that can instantly do the same or more breakbar damage than your chain of 4~5 skills with only 1 or 2 skills.

it's basically as good as firebrand's cc which is kitten when you compare it to actual good cc classes (eg. mesmer, rev, thief, warrior, druid).

I know this is out of context, but now FB CC breakbar is pretty good, with addition of glacial heart, and more importantly, highly spammable with zero dps cost. Symbol of Vengeance, which is rotational and is a daze + 2 sec chill + 3 sec cripple on 10 sec CD, lol... that is a 211 break bar value. This is a rotational skill.

In PvP, weaver CCs are okay, but their reliability is not great. When I think of Weaver, high CC is not what comes to mind.

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