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Downstate is currently unbalanced yes or no?


Doug.4930

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@XenesisII.1540 said:So basically arguing for no down state then, because you can argue for like a 0.25s or 1s or whatever reduction on stomping or increasing time to res or increasing the amount of people to res etc etc etc people will somehow still run into that situation, was there even any consideration if they had runes or traits for speeding up ressing too?

As a warrior would you really have gone for that stomp with 2 others and a camp surrounding you? or would you have switched to great sword and at least gotten out of that cave.

Probably would have just chained endure pain for days like spell breakers can and then great sworded away. Popped stability for safety.

No I'm not advocating for its removal, just some tweaking. Maybe enemies go into downstate with less health. Maybe enemies rez speed is slower. Maybe stomp speed is faster. Or perhaps enemies cant be revived for 1-2 seconds? Idk something small, I'm happy to compromise and I'm not advocating to remove it, cause I know that's not gonna happen.

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@"unrealman.3105" said:Managing downstate is a learn to play issue. Merge this thread.

I love when people say this. The person who is winning an out numbered fight, needs to "learn" to work around a crutch for the less skilled and greater numbered group. The logic on here sometimes is astounding.

I also like how every one is focusing on him being a thief class, when this problem has nothing to do with thief and affects all classes, as anyone can run into an out numbered fight. All I see are people who probably go down often in team fights because they are in the wrong position or not aware enough to mitigate an attack and not go down in the first place.

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hmm i do 1v2 and 1v3 a lot and i think the game is more balanced with downstate. dont forget that you can trait for rezzes (1vid i guess) and when someone is rezzing they cannot attack you, so you have chances left. when you want to trait for stomps you have to pay for it too (as warri i ue rampage a lot to do it outnumbered)

when downstate would be removed only powerburst/retreat classes will remain and the game would be completly broken imo

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@daydreamer.3092 said:hmm i do 1v2 and 1v3 a lot and i think the game is more balanced with downstate. dont forget that you can trait for rezzes (1vid i guess) and when someone is rezzing they cannot attack you, so you have chances left. when you want to trait for stomps you have to pay for it too (as warri i ue rampage a lot to do it outnumbered)

when downstate would be removed only powerburst/retreat classes will remain and the game would be completly broken imo

Not the case. It favors the larger group. Also, I run bruiser builds for no downstate weeks, as it works better, because I don't have to depend on burst and extra DPS pressure on a downed to finish a kill because stomping is totally useless for finishing in outnumbered fights as you can revive faster than you can stomp since haste no longer effects stomping. The only option is to DPS the downed, which also applies pressure to anyone who is going to res, meaning I spec as much into DPS as I can when it's not a no DS event. Troll one shot builds will still exist, but they exist now as well. They also need to be worked on and toned down, if downstate were to stay or go.

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Never really thought rev speed was broken, judging from the speed of the revive I'd wager the dude was using Superior runes of mercy.

Slightly off the OP topic but this isn't vanilla WoW if you're being +1 or more during a fight and you win you were fighting bads. 2v1's in gw should almost always result in the loss or retreat of the outnumbered player if all things are equal.

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@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@"unrealman.3105" said:Managing downstate is a learn to play issue. Merge this thread.

I love when people say this. The person who is winning an out numbered fight, needs to "learn" to work around a crutch for the less skilled and greater numbered group. The logic on here sometimes is astounding.

I also like how every one is focusing on him being a thief class, when this problem has nothing to do with thief and affects all classes, as anyone can run into an out numbered fight. All I see are people who probably go down often in team fights because they are in the wrong position or not aware enough to mitigate an attack and not go down in the first place.

Skill perception is relative. what if I'm using the random pug as bait? too complex? or am i just more skilled?

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@shiri.4257 said:

@"unrealman.3105" said:Managing downstate is a learn to play issue. Merge this thread.

I love when people say this. The person who is winning an out numbered fight, needs to "learn" to work around a crutch for the less skilled and greater numbered group. The logic on here sometimes is astounding.

I also like how every one is focusing on him being a thief class, when this problem has nothing to do with thief and affects all classes, as anyone can run into an out numbered fight. All I see are people who probably go down often in team fights because they are in the wrong position or not aware enough to mitigate an attack and not go down in the first place.

Skill perception is relative. what if I'm using the random pug as bait? too complex? or am i just more skilled?

If you are having to bait someone when you out number them, that doesn't make you more skilled. It means the other player has better tactics and you are having to use those numbers to your advantage.

Downstate favors the larger team, that's why it's not a problem in sPvP, as teams are a forced set number. And if you run into a group that has the same number as you, or a 1vs1 in WvW, in that moment, nothing is broken about DS and it favors no one. However even fights in numbers are very rare in WvW, and DS gives the team who already has the numbers advantage yet another advantage of DS. This is why on no DS events, skilled play is rewarded, and winning 3, 4, 5vs1's are possible.

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For some reason it feels like rev speed has increased over the years. You used to be able to punish pressure rezzers but now they can finish thr job way faster then you can stomp. I feel like this should only be possible on classes that have low base hp to begin with and classes with higher hp should take longer to bring back up.

Rezzing numbers need to be toned down and only brought up if traits, food, runes, and healing power are apart of the build.

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After no-downstate week it's just not the same enjoyable game again. Honestly I'd rather just die without downstate and get something for it because some classes are either immortal in downstate or will just gib while you are trying to finish them them off (hello immortal underwater rangers, 20+ stacks of confusion condi mesmers and power mesmers with phantasmal rogue hitting for 10k+). But then we have classes that have something like this https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vengeful_Blast

Most competitive games have great healing reduction (50% and above) in player vs player modes and in this game we are told that there is no holy trinity kek

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Downed state only favors the team with more numbers. They already have an advantage so why have more of an advantage? Why do I need to down the same player like 3-4 times before they die? It makes no sense and shouldn't be in WvW or PvP.

We outplay larger groups all the time by downing certain targets only to have their immortal support firebrand or bunker scrapper rez them instantly over and over. It drags the fight on and eventually the team with larger numbers win.

Anet, fix this. If someone is downed it should be much harder to rez. There shouldn't be any perks or anything that speed up rezzing. When someone is rezzed they should have a debuff on them for a decent duration as well.

Also, remove the ability to rez while using elixer S. You can't rez in mist form as ele so engineers shouldn't be able to be invuln while doing so.

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@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@"unrealman.3105" said:Managing downstate is a learn to play issue. Merge this thread.

I love when people say this. The person who is winning an out numbered fight, needs to "learn" to work around a crutch for the less skilled and greater numbered group. The logic on here sometimes is astounding.

I also like how every one is focusing on him being a thief class, when this problem has nothing to do with thief and affects all classes, as anyone can run into an out numbered fight. All I see are people who probably go down often in team fights because they are in the wrong position or not aware enough to mitigate an attack and not go down in the first place.

Skill perception is relative. what if I'm using the random pug as bait? too complex? or am i just more skilled?

If you are having to bait someone when you out number them, that doesn't make you more skilled. It means the other player has better tactics and you are having to use those numbers to your advantage.

Downstate favors the larger team, that's why it's not a problem in sPvP, as teams are a forced set number. And if you run into a group that has the same number as you, or a 1vs1 in WvW, in that moment, nothing is broken about DS and it favors no one. However even fights in numbers are very rare in WvW, and DS gives the team who already has the numbers advantage yet another advantage of DS. This is why on no DS events, skilled play is rewarded, and winning 3, 4, 5vs1's are possible.

It's rather highly skilled, it's baiting out the teef that just pogos or stealths away. perhaps your skill is in your fingers. my mind is just too complex for you to comprehend. therefore, i win and you will quit the game and QQ into the next.

Also, why shouldn't the side with more numbers be favored? that is generally the case. the only difference is y'all believe you're some hero like Logan Thackeray . perhaps my skill is i have social skills to have friends to bring overwhelming firepower and 5v1 you. your skill might be in your fingers but not much else.

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@shiri.4257 said:

@"unrealman.3105" said:Managing downstate is a learn to play issue. Merge this thread.

I love when people say this. The person who is winning an out numbered fight, needs to "learn" to work around a crutch for the less skilled and greater numbered group. The logic on here sometimes is astounding.

I also like how every one is focusing on him being a thief class, when this problem has nothing to do with thief and affects all classes, as anyone can run into an out numbered fight. All I see are people who probably go down often in team fights because they are in the wrong position or not aware enough to mitigate an attack and not go down in the first place.

Skill perception is relative. what if I'm using the random pug as bait? too complex? or am i just more skilled?

If you are having to bait someone when you out number them, that doesn't make you more skilled. It means the other player has better tactics and you are having to use those numbers to your advantage.

Downstate favors the larger team, that's why it's not a problem in sPvP, as teams are a forced set number. And if you run into a group that has the same number as you, or a 1vs1 in WvW, in that moment, nothing is broken about DS and it favors no one. However even fights in numbers are very rare in WvW, and DS gives the team who already has the numbers advantage yet another advantage of DS. This is why on no DS events, skilled play is rewarded, and winning 3, 4, 5vs1's are possible.

It's rather highly skilled, it's baiting out the teef that just pogos or stealths away. perhaps your skill is in your fingers. my mind is just too complex for you to comprehend. therefore, i win and you will quit the game and QQ into the next.

Also, why shouldn't the side with more numbers be favored? that is generally the case. the only difference is y'all believe you're some hero like Logan Thackeray . perhaps my skill is i have social skills to have friends to bring overwhelming firepower and 5v1 you. your skill might be in your fingers but not much else.

Baiting doesn't make you more skilled than the out numbered person you are baiting. I don't have to bait to win fights vs a thief, I can deal with them just fine 1vs1 and outnumbered. Baiting also is not highly skilled, because it's a pug as you stated, you don't really care about them and not giving a second thought about rezzing them. If this was sPvP and an even numbered fight, then you would have a point, but when you outnumber someone that is not the case.

The larger team does already have the advantage, you have the greater numbers, however, the way DS works is that it favors the larger team, a mechanic that favors the larger team, rather than skill is not good and reinforces balling up and skill spam. As for QQing, you seem to be doing that here, while I am talking about balance. And when I lose a 6vs1 and they siege me, I don't get mad, or QQ, I absolutely LOVE it. As frustrating someone so much they have to bring 5 other people to kill me just brings a smile to my face.

You also seem quite defensive going for the personal jabs, as how many friends I do or don't have has what to do with balance exactly? I honestly can't tell if you are just trolling or if you are serious with this post.

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@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@"unrealman.3105" said:Managing downstate is a learn to play issue. Merge this thread.

I love when people say this. The person who is winning an out numbered fight, needs to "learn" to work around a crutch for the less skilled and greater numbered group. The logic on here sometimes is astounding.

I also like how every one is focusing on him being a thief class, when this problem has nothing to do with thief and affects all classes, as anyone can run into an out numbered fight. All I see are people who probably go down often in team fights because they are in the wrong position or not aware enough to mitigate an attack and not go down in the first place.

Skill perception is relative. what if I'm using the random pug as bait? too complex? or am i just more skilled?

If you are having to bait someone when you out number them, that doesn't make you more skilled. It means the other player has better tactics and you are having to use those numbers to your advantage.

Downstate favors the larger team, that's why it's not a problem in sPvP, as teams are a forced set number. And if you run into a group that has the same number as you, or a 1vs1 in WvW, in that moment, nothing is broken about DS and it favors no one. However even fights in numbers are very rare in WvW, and DS gives the team who already has the numbers advantage yet another advantage of DS. This is why on no DS events, skilled play is rewarded, and winning 3, 4, 5vs1's are possible.

It's rather highly skilled, it's baiting out the teef that just pogos or stealths away. perhaps your skill is in your fingers. my mind is just too complex for you to comprehend. therefore, i win and you will quit the game and QQ into the next.

Also, why shouldn't the side with more numbers be favored? that is generally the case. the only difference is y'all believe you're some hero like Logan Thackeray . perhaps my skill is i have social skills to have friends to bring overwhelming firepower and 5v1 you. your skill might be in your fingers but not much else.

Baiting doesn't make you more skilled than the out numbered person you are baiting. I don't have to bait to win fights vs a thief, I can deal with them just fine 1vs1 and outnumbered. Baiting also is not highly skilled, because it's a pug as you stated, you don't really care about them and not giving a second thought about rezzing them. If this was sPvP and an even numbered fight, then you would have a point, but when you outnumber someone that is not the case.

The larger team does already have the advantage, you have the greater numbers, however, the way DS works is that it favors the larger team, a mechanic that favors the larger team, rather than skill is not good and reinforces balling up and skill spam. As for QQing, you seem to be doing that here, while I am talking about balance. And when I lose a 6vs1 and they siege me, I don't get mad, or QQ, I absolutely LOVE it. As frustrating someone so much they have to bring 5 other people to kill me just brings a smile to my face.

You also seem quite defensive going for the personal jabs, as how many friends I do or don't have has what to do with balance exactly? I honestly can't tell if you are just trolling or if you are serious with this post.

I am highly serious with my posts. the amount of friends you have is relative to social skills and put yourself in a situation to fight a 5v3 vs being a 1v3. see how skills are relative? keyboard skills are just one type.

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@shiri.4257 said:

@"unrealman.3105" said:Managing downstate is a learn to play issue. Merge this thread.

I love when people say this. The person who is winning an out numbered fight, needs to "learn" to work around a crutch for the less skilled and greater numbered group. The logic on here sometimes is astounding.

I also like how every one is focusing on him being a thief class, when this problem has nothing to do with thief and affects all classes, as anyone can run into an out numbered fight. All I see are people who probably go down often in team fights because they are in the wrong position or not aware enough to mitigate an attack and not go down in the first place.

Skill perception is relative. what if I'm using the random pug as bait? too complex? or am i just more skilled?

If you are having to bait someone when you out number them, that doesn't make you more skilled. It means the other player has better tactics and you are having to use those numbers to your advantage.

Downstate favors the larger team, that's why it's not a problem in sPvP, as teams are a forced set number. And if you run into a group that has the same number as you, or a 1vs1 in WvW, in that moment, nothing is broken about DS and it favors no one. However even fights in numbers are very rare in WvW, and DS gives the team who already has the numbers advantage yet another advantage of DS. This is why on no DS events, skilled play is rewarded, and winning 3, 4, 5vs1's are possible.

It's rather highly skilled, it's baiting out the teef that just pogos or stealths away. perhaps your skill is in your fingers. my mind is just too complex for you to comprehend. therefore, i win and you will quit the game and QQ into the next.

Also, why shouldn't the side with more numbers be favored? that is generally the case. the only difference is y'all believe you're some hero like Logan Thackeray . perhaps my skill is i have social skills to have friends to bring overwhelming firepower and 5v1 you. your skill might be in your fingers but not much else.

Baiting doesn't make you more skilled than the out numbered person you are baiting. I don't have to bait to win fights vs a thief, I can deal with them just fine 1vs1 and outnumbered. Baiting also is not highly skilled, because it's a pug as you stated, you don't really care about them and not giving a second thought about rezzing them. If this was sPvP and an even numbered fight, then you would have a point, but when you outnumber someone that is not the case.

The larger team does already have the advantage, you have the greater numbers, however, the way DS works is that it favors the larger team, a mechanic that favors the larger team, rather than skill is not good and reinforces balling up and skill spam. As for QQing, you seem to be doing that here, while I am talking about balance. And when I lose a 6vs1 and they siege me, I don't get mad, or QQ, I absolutely LOVE it. As frustrating someone so much they have to bring 5 other people to kill me just brings a smile to my face.

You also seem quite defensive going for the personal jabs, as how many friends I do or don't have has what to do with balance exactly? I honestly can't tell if you are just trolling or if you are serious with this post.

I am highly serious with my posts. the amount of friends you have is relative to social skills and put yourself in a situation to fight a 5v3 vs being a 1v3. see how skills are relative? keyboard skills are just one type.

Ooooooooook.......

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@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@"unrealman.3105" said:Managing downstate is a learn to play issue. Merge this thread.

I love when people say this. The person who is winning an out numbered fight, needs to "learn" to work around a crutch for the less skilled and greater numbered group. The logic on here sometimes is astounding.

I also like how every one is focusing on him being a thief class, when this problem has nothing to do with thief and affects all classes, as anyone can run into an out numbered fight. All I see are people who probably go down often in team fights because they are in the wrong position or not aware enough to mitigate an attack and not go down in the first place.

Skill perception is relative. what if I'm using the random pug as bait? too complex? or am i just more skilled?

If you are having to bait someone when you out number them, that doesn't make you more skilled. It means the other player has better tactics and you are having to use those numbers to your advantage.

Downstate favors the larger team, that's why it's not a problem in sPvP, as teams are a forced set number. And if you run into a group that has the same number as you, or a 1vs1 in WvW, in that moment, nothing is broken about DS and it favors no one. However even fights in numbers are very rare in WvW, and DS gives the team who already has the numbers advantage yet another advantage of DS. This is why on no DS events, skilled play is rewarded, and winning 3, 4, 5vs1's are possible.

It's rather highly skilled, it's baiting out the teef that just pogos or stealths away. perhaps your skill is in your fingers. my mind is just too complex for you to comprehend. therefore, i win and you will quit the game and QQ into the next.

Also, why shouldn't the side with more numbers be favored? that is generally the case. the only difference is y'all believe you're some hero like Logan Thackeray . perhaps my skill is i have social skills to have friends to bring overwhelming firepower and 5v1 you. your skill might be in your fingers but not much else.

Baiting doesn't make you more skilled than the out numbered person you are baiting. I don't have to bait to win fights vs a thief, I can deal with them just fine 1vs1 and outnumbered. Baiting also is not highly skilled, because it's a pug as you stated, you don't really care about them and not giving a second thought about rezzing them. If this was sPvP and an even numbered fight, then you would have a point, but when you outnumber someone that is not the case.

The larger team does already have the advantage, you have the greater numbers, however, the way DS works is that it favors the larger team, a mechanic that favors the larger team, rather than skill is not good and reinforces balling up and skill spam. As for QQing, you seem to be doing that here, while I am talking about balance. And when I lose a 6vs1 and they siege me, I don't get mad, or QQ, I absolutely LOVE it. As frustrating someone so much they have to bring 5 other people to kill me just brings a smile to my face.

You also seem quite defensive going for the personal jabs, as how many friends I do or don't have has what to do with balance exactly? I honestly can't tell if you are just trolling or if you are serious with this post.

I am highly serious with my posts. the amount of friends you have is relative to social skills and put yourself in a situation to fight a 5v3 vs being a 1v3. see how skills are relative? keyboard skills are just one type.

Ooooooooook.......

hold my hand butter cup, for 50g you can join my squad of 50 and stomp the 1 roamer in pangloss to your heart's content. we'll make you a living story hero.

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@shiri.4257 said:

@"unrealman.3105" said:Managing downstate is a learn to play issue. Merge this thread.

I love when people say this. The person who is winning an out numbered fight, needs to "learn" to work around a crutch for the less skilled and greater numbered group. The logic on here sometimes is astounding.

I also like how every one is focusing on him being a thief class, when this problem has nothing to do with thief and affects all classes, as anyone can run into an out numbered fight. All I see are people who probably go down often in team fights because they are in the wrong position or not aware enough to mitigate an attack and not go down in the first place.

Skill perception is relative. what if I'm using the random pug as bait? too complex? or am i just more skilled?

If you are having to bait someone when you out number them, that doesn't make you more skilled. It means the other player has better tactics and you are having to use those numbers to your advantage.

Downstate favors the larger team, that's why it's not a problem in sPvP, as teams are a forced set number. And if you run into a group that has the same number as you, or a 1vs1 in WvW, in that moment, nothing is broken about DS and it favors no one. However even fights in numbers are very rare in WvW, and DS gives the team who already has the numbers advantage yet another advantage of DS. This is why on no DS events, skilled play is rewarded, and winning 3, 4, 5vs1's are possible.

It's rather highly skilled, it's baiting out the teef that just pogos or stealths away. perhaps your skill is in your fingers. my mind is just too complex for you to comprehend. therefore, i win and you will quit the game and QQ into the next.

Also, why shouldn't the side with more numbers be favored? that is generally the case. the only difference is y'all believe you're some hero like Logan Thackeray . perhaps my skill is i have social skills to have friends to bring overwhelming firepower and 5v1 you. your skill might be in your fingers but not much else.

Baiting doesn't make you more skilled than the out numbered person you are baiting. I don't have to bait to win fights vs a thief, I can deal with them just fine 1vs1 and outnumbered. Baiting also is not highly skilled, because it's a pug as you stated, you don't really care about them and not giving a second thought about rezzing them. If this was sPvP and an even numbered fight, then you would have a point, but when you outnumber someone that is not the case.

The larger team does already have the advantage, you have the greater numbers, however, the way DS works is that it favors the larger team, a mechanic that favors the larger team, rather than skill is not good and reinforces balling up and skill spam. As for QQing, you seem to be doing that here, while I am talking about balance. And when I lose a 6vs1 and they siege me, I don't get mad, or QQ, I absolutely LOVE it. As frustrating someone so much they have to bring 5 other people to kill me just brings a smile to my face.

You also seem quite defensive going for the personal jabs, as how many friends I do or don't have has what to do with balance exactly? I honestly can't tell if you are just trolling or if you are serious with this post.

I am highly serious with my posts. the amount of friends you have is relative to social skills and put yourself in a situation to fight a 5v3 vs being a 1v3. see how skills are relative? keyboard skills are just one type.

Ooooooooook.......

hold my hand butter cup, for 50g you can join my squad of 50 and stomp the 1 roamer in pangloss to your heart's content. we'll make you a living story hero.

They had us in the first half, im not gonna lie

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