Scourge is Broken in WvW, Please balance it

[Kamara.4187]

I'm over the merry-go-round flavor-of the-month-mechanics. Me and my wallet will wait it out till something is done to make "all classes viable again" When I think about how much money I've blown on this game, it was not only a waste, but now its a disappointing waste.

[JoEWas.1409]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:So, it was fine then, and isn't fine now? Why? What changed on that front? Scourge deals less damage now than it did then, and does it less frequently, so if it wasn't objectionable then, why is it now?

People have been pointing out all issues with scourge since the preview weekend of classes, you must live under a rock.

[Ghost.5637]

I think they should make sand shades destroyable. Kind of like stationary minions.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@CreedOfGod.9764 said:I think they should make sand shades destroyable. Kind of like stationary minions.

Maybe like the Kalla legends?

[Ghost.5637]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@CreedOfGod.9764 said:I think they should make sand shades destroyable. Kind of like stationary minions.

Maybe like the Kalla legends?

Haven't played much renegade, so i'm not sure. General idea is that since necro is all about minions/summons, make the shades have a semi small health pool but have them spawn with a good size barrier to prevent instant destruction, but still manageable in large scale and when fighting a scourge up close.

[SWI.4127]

As much as I hate Scourge, I think making the shades killable is going too far. The Kalla legend is borderline useless in WvW because of this. Plus you can CC them and they do absolutely nothing.

[Ghost.5637]

@SWI.4127 said:As much as I hate Scourge, I think making the shades killable is going too far. The Kalla legend is borderline useless in WvW because of this. Plus you can CC them and they do absolutely nothing.

Which is why i suggested having them spawn with a sizeable barrier that decays, but should not be affected by cc as they just mirror the attacks of the caster. It will give them enough time to do relevant damage before being destroyed, but also give determined melee players an opportunity to clear them to get to the enemy scourge. Right now melee build have no way to counter scourges, as they just barrier up and stand in their pools of death while you melt.

No class should counter an entire playstyle.(quote taken from another post).

[vizjaqtaar.8620]

atm...tons of scourge aoe's..and tanks ..basically if a person wants to do zerk www atm either " have to be " aoe caster or tank so can survive..thats it

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@JoEWas.1409 said:

@"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:So, it was fine then, and isn't fine now? Why? What changed on that front? Scourge deals less damage now than it did then, and does it less frequently, so if it wasn't objectionable then, why is it now?

People have been pointing out all issues with scourge since the preview weekend of classes, you must live under a rock.

"Attacking people on walls" was not one of these issues, and it's pretty clear why: it's nothing new in the game mode.

[JoEWas.1409]

@"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

"Attacking people on walls" was not one of these issues, and it's pretty clear why: it's nothing new in the game mode.

This thread isn't making any new ground breaking earth shattering statements about top of wall spam. Go find a bigger rock.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@JoEWas.1409 said:

@"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

"Attacking people on walls" was not one of these issues, and it's pretty clear why: it's nothing new in the game mode.

This thread isn't making any new ground breaking earth shattering statements about top of wall spam. Go find a bigger rock.

Perhaps you weren't reading the conversation that you started quoting, then. Scourge got a bug fixed yesterday that prevented them from hitting wall defenders with their shades, and people were screaming about it. You quoted me pointing out that this was a stupid complaint because it was literally something that happened at PoF launch and people didn't complain about it then.

I agree Scourge needs to be addressed in WvW, and I believe the primary culprit is the Sand Savant trait (which is also the biggest issue in PvP). But complaining that they can hit people on walls now? Give me a break.

[JoEWas.1409]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Perhaps you weren't reading the conversation that you started quoting, then.

You are the only one that reads anything anywhere. End of line.

[Kovu.7560]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:it was literally something that happened at PoF launch and people didn't complain about it then.

I'm sure its been mentioned, buried in massive mount of salt associated with that specialization. Though I'll admit it would be just as bad if there were 20-30 elementalists dropping meteors. Fact is, there aren't 20-30 elementalists in a squad during today's meta. There are that many scourges.

~ Kovu

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@CreedOfGod.9764 said:

@SWI.4127 said:As much as I hate Scourge, I think making the shades killable is going too far. The Kalla legend is borderline useless in WvW because of this. Plus you can CC them and they do absolutely nothing.

Which is why i suggested having them spawn with a sizeable barrier that decays, but should not be affected by cc as they just mirror the attacks of the caster. It will give them enough time to do relevant damage before being destroyed, but also give determined melee players an opportunity to clear them to get to the enemy scourge. Right now melee build have no way to counter scourges, as they just barrier up and stand in their pools of death while you melt.

No class should counter an entire playstyle.(quote taken from another post).

This still wouldn't work either because the spam issue and the fact that 1 scourge by themselves isn't a problem, it's when multiple scourge, aka multiple sand savant shades are dropped and spammed. 0.5s delay in activations seem to cause many players grief due lag and freezing them on the spot. Removing sand savant and having 3 baby shades is likely worse because now triple the boon corruption to deal with because now 3 shades are causing grief vs 1. This is especially amplified in WvW because many people like to run Scourge so instead of say 5 big shades on the battlefield, we now have 15 smaller ones covering a larger area The scourge likely wouldn't even have to hit an F skill at all as spam dropping shades is enough to rip all a players boons.

This again, completely comes down to a player issue. Groups absolutely positively must run ranged classes to counter the volume of Scourges being used. Groups/commanders failing to impose this are continually going to run into problems. There is no way around at all. People can complain, whine, and moan all they want, but they simply are going to have to put their melee classes down every once in a while and pick up a ranged class. Put it this way, Anet could reduce all the F skill cooldowns to 5 min each and remove Sand Savant entirely and the volume of scourge will still wreck a group in less than 15s at the start of the encounter. You have to counter a scourge right from the get-go and the only way that's done is with a ranged class. Players failing or unwilling to jump on a ranged class is a player problem, not Anet's.

[Kiroshima.8497]

There's no need to remove sand savant, just make it so scourge becomes ranged only when it is traited. Then the proper defense is to melee the scourge, or force him to burn his shades and then he has nothing for ~15 seconds. Especially since now he can't range dps and support teammates at the same time easily, making him vulnerable to weaver/rev (and ranger) more in group fights since he can't F3/F2 on himself and enemies at the same time.

Also shrink the UNtraited offensive pulses around the scourge to 90 radius (half). Supportive effects can retain their radii. Shade radius stays the same. Shade Placement should be the focal point, not just dumping F2-5 everywhere since it pulses automatically around the scourge.

[FASTCAR.7831]

@Sovereign.1093 said:bomb as one = dead anything

has no effect on me

[Kovu.7560]

@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:This again, completely comes down to a player issue. Groups absolutely positively must run ranged classes to counter the volume of Scourges being used. Groups/commanders failing to impose this are continually going to run into problems. There is no way around at all. People can complain, whine, and moan all they want, but they simply are going to have to put their melee classes down every once in a while and pick up a ranged class. Put it this way, Anet could reduce all the F skill cooldowns to 5 min each and remove Sand Savant entirely and the volume of scourge will still wreck a group in less than 15s at the start of the encounter. You have to counter a scourge right from the get-go and the only way that's done is with a ranged class. Players failing or unwilling to jump on a ranged class is a player problem, not Anet's.

I mean, I don't disagree entirely -- but you'd be surprised how hard it is for ranged attackers, particularly those that rely on projectiles, to get their attacks through. This game has more projectile defenses than I've ever seen in any game. The ranged attackers have to invest resources into unblockable attacks (those that even get them) just to temporarily get around that. Moreover, between barriers, boons and Firebrand teet sucking, its almost impossible to take down a scourge with ranged attacks. Obviously catching them out on their own is a whole different story, but you'd be surprised how tanky those buggers are in a group scenario.

There's a reason Revs are the only "meta" power ranged option. As well, they bring more support to the table than rangers, engis or (lol) thieves.

~ Kovu

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@CreedOfGod.9764 said:

@SWI.4127 said:As much as I hate Scourge, I think making the shades killable is going too far. The Kalla legend is borderline useless in WvW because of this. Plus you can CC them and they do absolutely nothing.

Which is why i suggested having them spawn with a sizeable barrier that decays, but should not be affected by cc as they just mirror the attacks of the caster. It will give them enough time to do relevant damage before being destroyed, but also give determined melee players an opportunity to clear them to get to the enemy scourge. Right now melee build have no way to counter scourges, as they just barrier up and stand in their pools of death while you melt.

No class should counter an entire playstyle.(quote taken from another post).

This still wouldn't work either because the spam issue and the fact that 1 scourge by themselves isn't a problem, it's when multiple scourge, aka multiple sand savant shades are dropped and spammed. 0.5s delay in activations seem to cause many players grief due lag and freezing them on the spot. Removing sand savant and having 3 baby shades is likely worse because now triple the boon corruption to deal with because now 3 shades are causing grief vs 1. This is especially amplified in WvW because many people like to run Scourge so instead of say 5 big shades on the battlefield, we now have 15 smaller ones covering a larger area The scourge likely wouldn't even have to hit an F skill at all as spam dropping shades is enough to rip all a players boons.

3 small shades actually cover less area than 1 big shade once you factor in the Scourge as well (407,150.408 units squared compared to 565,486.678 units squared). Also has a longer charge cooldown, so if they maximize area, they minimize uptime. Small shades only hit 3 targets (and good luck getting 3 targets in a 180 radius). Sand Savant still has the same 3 charges that normal shades have, and you only need to use 1 to place the big shade. Without Sand Savant, they would have to use all three charges to get close to the same area coverage (and still not get there).

Simply dropping a shade will corrupt AT MAXIMUM 1 boon per person (up to 3 targets without Sand Savant). F2 will then corrupt 1 boon per target when traited (Blood Scourge doesn't do this).

@JoEWas.1409 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Perhaps you weren't reading the conversation that you started quoting, then.

You are the only one that reads anything anywhere. End of line.

That explains so much.

[Jski.6180]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@CreedOfGod.9764 said:

@SWI.4127 said:As much as I hate Scourge, I think making the shades killable is going too far. The Kalla legend is borderline useless in WvW because of this. Plus you can CC them and they do absolutely nothing.

Which is why i suggested having them spawn with a sizeable barrier that decays, but should not be affected by cc as they just mirror the attacks of the caster. It will give them enough time to do relevant damage before being destroyed, but also give determined melee players an opportunity to clear them to get to the enemy scourge. Right now melee build have no way to counter scourges, as they just barrier up and stand in their pools of death while you melt.

No class should counter an entire playstyle.(quote taken from another post).

This still wouldn't work either because the spam issue and the fact that 1 scourge by themselves isn't a problem, it's when multiple scourge, aka multiple sand savant shades are dropped and spammed. 0.5s delay in activations seem to cause many players grief due lag and freezing them on the spot. Removing sand savant and having 3 baby shades is likely worse because now triple the boon corruption to deal with because now 3 shades are causing grief vs 1. This is especially amplified in WvW because many people like to run Scourge so instead of say 5 big shades on the battlefield, we now have 15 smaller ones covering a larger area The scourge likely wouldn't even have to hit an F skill at all as spam dropping shades is enough to rip all a players boons.

3 small shades actually cover less area than 1 big shade once you factor in the Scourge as well (407,150.408 units squared compared to 565,486.678 units squared). Also has a longer charge cooldown, so if they maximize area, they minimize uptime. Small shades only hit 3 targets (and good luck getting 3 targets in a 180 radius). Sand Savant still has the same 3 charges that normal shades have, and you only need to use 1 to place the big shade. Without Sand Savant, they would have to use all three charges to get close to the same area coverage (and still not get there).

Simply dropping a shade will corrupt AT MAXIMUM 1 boon per person (up to 3 targets without Sand Savant). F2 will then corrupt 1 boon per target when traited (Blood Scourge doesn't do this).

@JoEWas.1409 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Perhaps you weren't reading the conversation that you started quoting, then.

You are the only one that reads anything anywhere. End of line.

That explains so much.

4 small aoe vs 2 larges aoe do not sweep under the rug that there an aoe at the scorge's feet too (the main problem and will still be the main problem with the class).

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@CreedOfGod.9764 said:

@SWI.4127 said:As much as I hate Scourge, I think making the shades killable is going too far. The Kalla legend is borderline useless in WvW because of this. Plus you can CC them and they do absolutely nothing.

Which is why i suggested having them spawn with a sizeable barrier that decays, but should not be affected by cc as they just mirror the attacks of the caster. It will give them enough time to do relevant damage before being destroyed, but also give determined melee players an opportunity to clear them to get to the enemy scourge. Right now melee build have no way to counter scourges, as they just barrier up and stand in their pools of death while you melt.

No class should counter an entire playstyle.(quote taken from another post).

This still wouldn't work either because the spam issue and the fact that 1 scourge by themselves isn't a problem, it's when multiple scourge, aka multiple sand savant shades are dropped and spammed. 0.5s delay in activations seem to cause many players grief due lag and freezing them on the spot. Removing sand savant and having 3 baby shades is likely worse because now triple the boon corruption to deal with because now 3 shades are causing grief vs 1. This is especially amplified in WvW because many people like to run Scourge so instead of say 5 big shades on the battlefield, we now have 15 smaller ones covering a larger area The scourge likely wouldn't even have to hit an F skill at all as spam dropping shades is enough to rip all a players boons.

3 small shades actually cover less area than 1 big shade once you factor in the Scourge as well (407,150.408 units squared compared to 565,486.678 units squared). Also has a longer charge cooldown, so if they maximize area, they minimize uptime. Small shades only hit 3 targets (and good luck getting 3 targets in a 180 radius). Sand Savant still has the same 3 charges that normal shades have, and you only need to use 1 to place the big shade. Without Sand Savant, they would have to use all three charges to get close to the same area coverage (and still not get there).

Simply dropping a shade will corrupt AT MAXIMUM 1 boon per person (up to 3 targets without Sand Savant). F2 will then corrupt 1 boon per target when traited (Blood Scourge doesn't do this).

@JoEWas.1409 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Perhaps you weren't reading the conversation that you started quoting, then.

You are the only one that reads anything anywhere. End of line.

That explains so much.

4 small aoe vs 2 larges aoe do not sweep under the rug that there an aoe at the scorge's feet too (the main problem and will still be the main problem with the class).

And the 4 small AoE covers about 71% of the area of the two large ones (seriously, I posted the areas in what you quoted). I disagree that the skills hitting around the Shade and the Scourge is a problem, but I will readily agree that the 300 radius at both is too much.

[Jski.6180]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@CreedOfGod.9764 said:

@SWI.4127 said:As much as I hate Scourge, I think making the shades killable is going too far. The Kalla legend is borderline useless in WvW because of this. Plus you can CC them and they do absolutely nothing.

Which is why i suggested having them spawn with a sizeable barrier that decays, but should not be affected by cc as they just mirror the attacks of the caster. It will give them enough time to do relevant damage before being destroyed, but also give determined melee players an opportunity to clear them to get to the enemy scourge. Right now melee build have no way to counter scourges, as they just barrier up and stand in their pools of death while you melt.

No class should counter an entire playstyle.(quote taken from another post).

This still wouldn't work either because the spam issue and the fact that 1 scourge by themselves isn't a problem, it's when multiple scourge, aka multiple sand savant shades are dropped and spammed. 0.5s delay in activations seem to cause many players grief due lag and freezing them on the spot. Removing sand savant and having 3 baby shades is likely worse because now triple the boon corruption to deal with because now 3 shades are causing grief vs 1. This is especially amplified in WvW because many people like to run Scourge so instead of say 5 big shades on the battlefield, we now have 15 smaller ones covering a larger area The scourge likely wouldn't even have to hit an F skill at all as spam dropping shades is enough to rip all a players boons.

3 small shades actually cover less area than 1 big shade once you factor in the Scourge as well (407,150.408 units squared compared to 565,486.678 units squared). Also has a longer charge cooldown, so if they maximize area, they minimize uptime. Small shades only hit 3 targets (and good luck getting 3 targets in a 180 radius). Sand Savant still has the same 3 charges that normal shades have, and you only need to use 1 to place the big shade. Without Sand Savant, they would have to use all three charges to get close to the same area coverage (and still not get there).

Simply dropping a shade will corrupt AT MAXIMUM 1 boon per person (up to 3 targets without Sand Savant). F2 will then corrupt 1 boon per target when traited (Blood Scourge doesn't do this).

@JoEWas.1409 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Perhaps you weren't reading the conversation that you started quoting, then.

You are the only one that reads anything anywhere. End of line.

That explains so much.

4 small aoe vs 2 larges aoe do not sweep under the rug that there an aoe at the scorge's feet too (the main problem and will still be the main problem with the class).

And the 4 small AoE covers about 71% of the area of the two large ones (seriously, I posted the areas in what you quoted). I disagree that the skills hitting around the Shade and the Scourge is a problem, but I will readily agree that the 300 radius at both is too much.

That IS the problem with the class. Its ok to have all these effect but they must be limited in use like most of death should effects this one just in a pAoE not on the scourge or your just going to have a DS effect on both the player using the DS and a pAoE.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@CreedOfGod.9764 said:

@SWI.4127 said:As much as I hate Scourge, I think making the shades killable is going too far. The Kalla legend is borderline useless in WvW because of this. Plus you can CC them and they do absolutely nothing.

Which is why i suggested having them spawn with a sizeable barrier that decays, but should not be affected by cc as they just mirror the attacks of the caster. It will give them enough time to do relevant damage before being destroyed, but also give determined melee players an opportunity to clear them to get to the enemy scourge. Right now melee build have no way to counter scourges, as they just barrier up and stand in their pools of death while you melt.

No class should counter an entire playstyle.(quote taken from another post).

This still wouldn't work either because the spam issue and the fact that 1 scourge by themselves isn't a problem, it's when multiple scourge, aka multiple sand savant shades are dropped and spammed. 0.5s delay in activations seem to cause many players grief due lag and freezing them on the spot. Removing sand savant and having 3 baby shades is likely worse because now triple the boon corruption to deal with because now 3 shades are causing grief vs 1. This is especially amplified in WvW because many people like to run Scourge so instead of say 5 big shades on the battlefield, we now have 15 smaller ones covering a larger area The scourge likely wouldn't even have to hit an F skill at all as spam dropping shades is enough to rip all a players boons.

3 small shades actually cover less area than 1 big shade once you factor in the Scourge as well (407,150.408 units squared compared to 565,486.678 units squared). Also has a longer charge cooldown, so if they maximize area, they minimize uptime. Small shades only hit 3 targets (and good luck getting 3 targets in a 180 radius). Sand Savant still has the same 3 charges that normal shades have, and you only need to use 1 to place the big shade. Without Sand Savant, they would have to use all three charges to get close to the same area coverage (and still not get there).

Simply dropping a shade will corrupt AT MAXIMUM 1 boon per person (up to 3 targets without Sand Savant). F2 will then corrupt 1 boon per target when traited (Blood Scourge doesn't do this).

@JoEWas.1409 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Perhaps you weren't reading the conversation that you started quoting, then.

You are the only one that reads anything anywhere. End of line.

That explains so much.

4 small aoe vs 2 larges aoe do not sweep under the rug that there an aoe at the scorge's feet too (the main problem and will still be the main problem with the class).

And the 4 small AoE covers about 71% of the area of the two large ones (seriously, I posted the areas in what you quoted). I disagree that the skills hitting around the Shade and the Scourge is a problem, but I will readily agree that the 300 radius at both is too much.

That IS the problem with the class. Its ok to have all these effect but they must be limited in use like most of death should effects this one just in a pAoE not on the scourge or your just going to have a DS effect on both the player using the DS and a pAoE.

What you are suggesting is turning the Scourge profession mechanic into a Ventari tablet. Except this tablet can't be moved. That sounds like a horrid idea.

The fact is, all of the Shade skills ARE limited in use: they all cost life force, which isn't automatically generated (Signet of Undeath notwithstanding). They're not purely cooldown based like most skills are.

Also, what is "pAoE?" Clearly not supposed to be "Point-blank Area of Effect," so please clarify as this is a new acronym to me.

[Jski.6180]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@CreedOfGod.9764 said:

@SWI.4127 said:As much as I hate Scourge, I think making the shades killable is going too far. The Kalla legend is borderline useless in WvW because of this. Plus you can CC them and they do absolutely nothing.

Which is why i suggested having them spawn with a sizeable barrier that decays, but should not be affected by cc as they just mirror the attacks of the caster. It will give them enough time to do relevant damage before being destroyed, but also give determined melee players an opportunity to clear them to get to the enemy scourge. Right now melee build have no way to counter scourges, as they just barrier up and stand in their pools of death while you melt.

No class should counter an entire playstyle.(quote taken from another post).

This still wouldn't work either because the spam issue and the fact that 1 scourge by themselves isn't a problem, it's when multiple scourge, aka multiple sand savant shades are dropped and spammed. 0.5s delay in activations seem to cause many players grief due lag and freezing them on the spot. Removing sand savant and having 3 baby shades is likely worse because now triple the boon corruption to deal with because now 3 shades are causing grief vs 1. This is especially amplified in WvW because many people like to run Scourge so instead of say 5 big shades on the battlefield, we now have 15 smaller ones covering a larger area The scourge likely wouldn't even have to hit an F skill at all as spam dropping shades is enough to rip all a players boons.

3 small shades actually cover less area than 1 big shade once you factor in the Scourge as well (407,150.408 units squared compared to 565,486.678 units squared). Also has a longer charge cooldown, so if they maximize area, they minimize uptime. Small shades only hit 3 targets (and good luck getting 3 targets in a 180 radius). Sand Savant still has the same 3 charges that normal shades have, and you only need to use 1 to place the big shade. Without Sand Savant, they would have to use all three charges to get close to the same area coverage (and still not get there).

Simply dropping a shade will corrupt AT MAXIMUM 1 boon per person (up to 3 targets without Sand Savant). F2 will then corrupt 1 boon per target when traited (Blood Scourge doesn't do this).

@JoEWas.1409 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Perhaps you weren't reading the conversation that you started quoting, then.

You are the only one that reads anything anywhere. End of line.

That explains so much.

4 small aoe vs 2 larges aoe do not sweep under the rug that there an aoe at the scorge's feet too (the main problem and will still be the main problem with the class).

And the 4 small AoE covers about 71% of the area of the two large ones (seriously, I posted the areas in what you quoted). I disagree that the skills hitting around the Shade and the Scourge is a problem, but I will readily agree that the 300 radius at both is too much.

That IS the problem with the class. Its ok to have all these effect but they must be limited in use like most of death should effects this one just in a pAoE not on the scourge or your just going to have a DS effect on both the player using the DS and a pAoE.

What you are suggesting is turning the Scourge profession mechanic into a Ventari tablet. Except this tablet can't be moved. That sounds like a horrid idea.

The fact is, all of the Shade skills ARE limited in use: they all cost life force, which isn't automatically generated (Signet of Undeath notwithstanding). They're not purely cooldown based like most skills are.

Also, what is "pAoE?" Clearly not supposed to be "Point-blank Area of Effect," so please clarify as this is a new acronym to me.

In a lot of ways yes but its better to have tablet effect that is simply low duration and on a low cd that is simply recast having effect on that cast then having effect on move. As you can hit walls etc.. more effecily and there a lot more on the scourge "ventari tablet" then just heals.

Place-able Area of Effect also know as area of control.

Also image if ventari tablet had all these effects on it too even barrier not healing it would be an amazing tool.

[Riba.3271]

Eh condi scourge gets pretty well shut down by virtues firebrand + rev + holo or shoutbreaker party now meaning scourges cant really run full trailblazer anymore against competent enemies. Also you cant really stack scourges anymore because enemy having a few competent boonshare chronos means them pulling 4-5 scourges every 25 seconds to a bomb due to lack of stab and AoE stunbreaks. Anet did really well buffing the other specs (engi, war, rev) to shut condi meta down and nerfing scourge at the same patches.

Its still pretty annoying for ranged though because as caster it kind of counters staff eles and revenants due to their lack of cleanse, guess casters just need a melee party and people need to ball up a bit more (and stop playing selfish specs).

[Jski.6180]

@"Threather.9354" said:Eh condi scourge gets pretty well shut down by virtues firebrand + rev + holo or shoutbreaker party now meaning scourges cant really run full trailblazer anymore against competent enemies. Also you cant really stack scourges anymore because enemy having a few competent boonshare chronos means them pulling 4-5 scourges every 25 seconds to a bomb due to lack of stab and AoE stunbreaks. Anet did really well buffing the other specs (engi, war, rev) to shut condi meta down and nerfing scourge at the same patches.

Its still pretty annoying for ranged though because as caster it kind of counters staff eles and revenants due to their lack of cleanse, guess casters just need a melee party and people need to ball up a bit more (and stop playing selfish specs).

The thing is a lot of meta scourges are doing enofe power dmg to make it impossible for clear builds to comply stop there dmg. That and scourges aoe barrier may not be a viable healing on its own (its very close with no healing) but when you get more then one scourge and due to there 10 target cap you start to hard counter any type of incoming dmg more for burst dmg classes like eles and revs what should be a hard counter for a mid ranged low mobility class like scourge.

Its the inflated target cap that scourge has that lets groups stack the class hitting both there pt and others with its effects. You start getting more then one version of the same effect from different players making non support builds support effect unstoppable.Its just not fun to see nothing but yellow numbers even if they are 7k+ but it means nothing at all when the barrier is simply reapplied in a hart beat. (I would kind of like to see dps in wvw not counting barrier dmg at all and see what type of "top dps" we will see from classes.)