Scourge is Broken in WvW, Please balance it

[Sovereign.1093]

@morrolan.9608 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:f1 3 of fb gathers scourges for the kill.

chrono grav well x 2 pull

then pew pew

=) most squads has atleasy 6 fb yeah?

Doesn't work when faced with 20-30 scourges. Besides most FBs would be in F2 or F3 on engagement and if they aren't then you die anyway because you have no support.

i fight that number with my crew without problems. maybe thats why ppl having scourge issues they start with f3 instead of f1

[morrolan.9608]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

You can not expect 1 class to be good against every other class, it simply doesn't work that way. Scourge is beyond useless against ranged. What makes Scourge so strong is players refusal to jump on ranged classes. Seriously, the scourge complains simply just can't be bothered to get off their Guardian, Warrior, or Rev; that's what it comes down to, nothing less, nothing more.

Players can't just change classes willy nilly, you change you get caught in a queue. What you're asking for is a zerg to be composed of 20-30 rangers which is just not practical, not to mention such a group would probably get beaten by the other half of an enemy anyway.

[morrolan.9608]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@morrolan.9608 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:f1 3 of fb gathers scourges for the kill.

chrono grav well x 2 pull

then pew pew

=) most squads has atleasy 6 fb yeah?

Doesn't work when faced with 20-30 scourges. Besides most FBs would be in F2 or F3 on engagement and if they aren't then you die anyway because you have no support.

i fight that number with my crew without problems. maybe thats why ppl having scourge issues they start with f3 instead of f1

You're on NSP, I don't believe you. Scourges become progressively less of a problem as you go down the tiers because they aren't specced properly and don't play in as organised a manner.

[SWI.4127]

@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

Another thing players fail to realize is if you don't want your boons corrupted into whatever conditions to begin with don't run boons to begin with. Take all the utilities off your skill bar that give boons nor don't use weapons that provide boons, bam useless Scourge.

Doesn't the very fact that you're saying "don't use boons" illustrate how ridiculous of a class this is? What about stability? Should people just remove all their stability skills so they don't get feared all over the place? People are already avoiding the Resistance boon because of how punishing the corrupt is. How about all the skills that give boons as a secondary effect? Just never use any of these skills? No one class should have this big of an effect on a game mode. Basically all I'm getting out of this is run a 1500 range longbow ranger with no boon skills. If you actually think this is a good solution, I don't know what to say.

[Sovereign.1093]

@morrolan.9608 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@morrolan.9608 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:f1 3 of fb gathers scourges for the kill.

chrono grav well x 2 pull

then pew pew

=) most squads has atleasy 6 fb yeah?

Doesn't work when faced with 20-30 scourges. Besides most FBs would be in F2 or F3 on engagement and if they aren't then you die anyway because you have no support.

i fight that number with my crew without problems. maybe thats why ppl having scourge issues they start with f3 instead of f1

You're on NSP, I don't believe you. Scourges become progressively less of a problem as you go down the tiers because they aren't specced properly and don't play in as organised a manner.

=) you may be right.

we've been paired against cd tc db jq sbi hod only.

their scourge team may not be up to par with t1.

[Catchyfx.5768]

Strange...if i see scourge out of his blob he Is hammered Down quickly.(not Always, but most of the time, only weapon on 1200 Is staff so he need to go to you.) And yes depend on place And situation.

[Soggy Biscuit.9372]

I just had the absolute displeasure of facing a full zerg consisting of them, just brainlessly running over people with whatever circle AoEs they have auto-ticking on them. I understand why some of you desperately don't want that spec nerfed.

[Jski.6180]

@Catchyfx.5768 said:Strange...if i see scourge out of his blob he Is hammered Down quickly.(not Always, but most of the time, only weapon on 1200 Is staff so he need to go to you.) And yes depend on place And situation.

Well that where the FB come into play and rez them up. That and your hammer them down is about to get nerf so good luck with that. You simply cant depend on other op effect to deal with other op effect you need real balancing and right now scourge is the biggest problem in wvw and gw2 over all. This is the one time building up other classes will not fix a problem with another class. Scourge needs a rework.

[morrolan.9608]

@Catchyfx.5768 said:Strange...if i see scourge out of his blob he Is hammered Down quickly.(not Always, but most of the time, only weapon on 1200 Is staff so he need to go to you.) And yes depend on place And situation.

There's nothing strange about it, on their own scourges are weak to ranged specs, the thread is about group play where scourges are dominating to an extent never seen with any other class before.

[stormwings.8329]

Most of the ppl think that play as a scourge will make them good but everytime theres a fight only 2-3 scourge are doing a proper job the other are just meat wall (was the same for guard before the staff 111 was nerfed). Also ele can do easily 25-50% more dmg than a scourge but again if they dont know where they need to stay they are completely useless and the same is for hammer rev. If there are 2-3 hammer rev that can coordinate their CoR than you will have 5 ppl down every 5s and that 5 should be scourge, ele or other rev (good thing the next CoR nerf. 3y that were waiting for that in wvw but good spike dmg will still kill ppl like it should do). You can even focus the enemy melee train so they will not push but most of the time theres no coordination so melee train can just continue to push.Problem in wvw are numbers. Do you rly think that a blob with 30 ele spamming their skills is less cancer than 30 scourge? Btw for fps and my eyes scourge are sure totaly kinnen. But yeah, should be so fun die in 0.1s cos you just run in 10 meteor while all the ground is full of chill field, lava font, static, etc...Also so many ppl are still running through all the red circle without using their dodge and they come here and cry cry cry while the only problem is that they are bad players.Balance a bvb is impossible but they should try at least to balance the game for 20v20 or max 30v30 (even if here there will be too many random kitten going here and there) and look how guilds are playing and not just join wvw and follow a blob and than "balance" the game after they got focused but all the enemy blob cos they have the anet tag over their head...

[morrolan.9608]

@stormwings.8329 said:Problem in wvw are numbers. Do you rly think that a blob with 30 ele spamming their skills is less cancer than 30 scourge? Btw for fps and my eyes scourge are sure totaly kinnen. But yeah, should be so fun die in 0.1s cos you just run in 10 meteor while all the ground is full of chill field, lava font, static, etc...Also so many ppl are still running through all the red circle without using their dodge and they come here and cry cry cry while the only problem is that they are bad players.

1. Scourges are being used rather than other aoe classes because it is moving aoe, scourge are literally frontline due to this.
2. On dodging can't dodge if you're immobd as happens most often. Plus the aoe is huge

[Vova.2640]

I think the better approach towards nerfing Scourges would be nerfing Sand Savant trait.Extra 120 radius means increasing the area of effect of shades by almost 3 times (2.78 to be more precise)Lower it to 90 bonus radius, and now the increase is only 2.25 times the original radius.Or lower it to 75 bonus radius and now the area of effect is only 2 times larger than without the trait.For reference, necro wells are only 240 radius, so even with bonus 75 radius the shades will have 255 radius, still bigger than the wells.

Also since its only 1 big shade, it should lose the ammo system on F1 and just keep the reduced recharge.Force scourges to be more careful where they place their big shade.

[Jski.6180]

@Vova.2640 said:I think the better approach towards nerfing Scourges would be nerfing Sand Savant trait.Extra 120 radius means increasing the area of effect of shades by almost 3 times (2.78 to be more precise)Lower it to 90 bonus radius, and now the increase is only 2.25 times the original radius.Or lower it to 75 bonus radius and now the area of effect is only 2 times larger than without the trait.For reference, necro wells are only 240 radius, so even with bonus 75 radius the shades will have 255 radius, still bigger than the wells.

Also since its only 1 big shade, it should lose the ammo system on F1 and just keep the reduced recharge.Force scourges to be more careful where they place their big shade.

No good your still getting an effect at your own feet even if it just 3 targets and smaller size its still a doubling of an effect. You could make them super small and it would still be a problem. Its not the size that the problem all though its part of the argument of why scourge is op its the fact that scourge gets to eat its cake and have it too or its able to do both a ranged version of its f2-f5 as well as having a melee version of f2-f5. Any thing short of dealing with that your never going to have the nerf stop. If any thing they are going to over nerf it because of this one effect because it just is that game braking.

[trueanimus.4085]

Once again.. the whiner's got what they wanted... Necro has been nerfed again... for the 5th patch in a row.

[Jski.6180]

@trueanimus.4085 said:Once again.. the whiner's got what they wanted... Necro has been nerfed again... for the 5th patch in a row.

Going to keep happening till the thing i am talking about is fixed. If your getting a double effect on any thing in this game your going to have inflated numbers and there will be an over nerf. Stop being blind to real problems with a class.

[SkyShroud.2865]

@trueanimus.4085 said:Once again.. the whiner's got what they wanted... Necro has been nerfed again... for the 5th patch in a row.

The nerf isn't gonna change a lot for zerg fight. It just means scourge spam less often thus less forgiving in wrong aoe usage thus overall less dps in prolong fights but it doesn't change the fact that it still play a big part in killing a lot of people on first push.

[trueanimus.4085]

Oh and btw.. Anet even added the "visual effect" to the scourge bomb 2 pathes ago... a BIG PULSATING CIRCLE EFFECT that gives you a 1 second warning you are ABOUT to be bombed before the spell actually LANDS ANYTHING ON YOU... learn to play

[trueanimus.4085]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@trueanimus.4085 said:Once again.. the whiner's got what they wanted... Necro has been nerfed again... for the 5th patch in a row.

The nerf isn't gonna change a lot for zerg fight. It just means scourge spam less often thus less forgiving in wrong aoe usage thus overall less dps in prolong fights but it doesn't change the fact that it still play a big part in killing a lot of people on first push.

let the heavies push first then... you are a clothie and should learn to play like one.. stay in the back with your lil staff and throw water on your friends and win.

[trueanimus.4085]

@morrolan.9608 said:

@Catchyfx.5768 said:Strange...if i see scourge out of his blob he Is hammered Down quickly.(not Always, but most of the time, only weapon on 1200 Is staff so he need to go to you.) And yes depend on place And situation.

There's nothing strange about it, on their own scourges are weak to ranged specs, the thread is about group play where scourges are dominating to an extent never seen with any other class before.

classes in wvw and pvp should be balenced on what they can do 1 v 1 not what 40 scourges do to 40 melee classes in a blob... Melee is week in an AOE setting simply because they are melee....

If you are sitting on a wall with 40 archers... you really hope that 40 knights push up to the wall... why.. becuase they cant get to you before you mow them down with arrows.. Why the heck would you nerf an archer so that they have to stand right in front of someone with a hammer before they can shoot? Doesn't make sense.

1 on 1 all classes and builds should be pretty much even given the same circumstances.. yet Anet nerfs because people whine.

Oh i got killed by a range class from 1200 when im a 300 range class and im built for dps.. have no condi clears and am a heavy wearing toilet paper armor...

yes.. the 1200 range class gets nerfed.

People already left this game because of the nerfs and imbalance... and more will be leaving soon if this keeps up.

[Jski.6180]

@trueanimus.4085 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@trueanimus.4085 said:Once again.. the whiner's got what they wanted... Necro has been nerfed again... for the 5th patch in a row.

Going to keep happening till the thing i am talking about is fixed. If your getting a double effect on any thing in this game your going to have inflated numbers and there will be an over nerf. Stop being blind to real problems with a class.

One of the whiners... come to whine because he plays elem as a power ele and doesnt want to have to really stack heal gear to be a water bi__ch.

I would say that 5 nerfs in a row... MAJOR nerfs to ALL specs of necro would be considered over the top.. i mean come on. While mesmers and deadeyes can 1 shot any class.. and hammer revs can down and disable any class from 1200 range... they are not OP? Seriously?

ALL necro skills are AOE based... and they have an indicator bro.. a HUGE FREAKING O on the ground... Take one step left or right or Roll with V key and what happens.... NOTHING. You dodge the entire bomb.

The nerfs are happening becuase people like this dont know how to dodge and whine about being bombed in a hallway... come on.

A choke point is just that.. a choke.. and trust me.. if your zerg is dying to 3 necros in a choke.. you just need to quit WvW all together bro... learn to cleanse and roll ... YOU CAN ROLL THROUGH AN ENTIRE BOMB IN A HALLWAY use your V key TWICE... you have 2 rolls!!!!

Say what you want about players at the end of the day your not going to change them and when your only able to go after the "whiners" but not make a real case about why what they are saying is now true is when you know your truly wrong about your point of view.

As long as scorge has both a melee cast and a ranged cast of there f2-f5 at the same time the class will keep getting nerfed. It is that simple. Deal with it get over it and ask for a real update. So we can stop these cdr nerfs or effect nerfs and do what realty needed for the scorge class.

[trueanimus.4085]

@Jski.6180 said:

@trueanimus.4085 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@trueanimus.4085 said:Once again.. the whiner's got what they wanted... Necro has been nerfed again... for the 5th patch in a row.

Going to keep happening till the thing i am talking about is fixed. If your getting a double effect on any thing in this game your going to have inflated numbers and there will be an over nerf. Stop being blind to real problems with a class.

One of the whiners... come to whine because he plays elem as a power ele and doesnt want to have to really stack heal gear to be a water bi__ch.

I would say that 5 nerfs in a row... MAJOR nerfs to ALL specs of necro would be considered over the top.. i mean come on. While mesmers and deadeyes can 1 shot any class.. and hammer revs can down and disable any class from 1200 range... they are not OP? Seriously?

ALL necro skills are AOE based... and they have an indicator bro.. a HUGE FREAKING O on the ground... Take one step left or right or Roll with V key and what happens.... NOTHING. You dodge the entire bomb.

The nerfs are happening becuase people like this dont know how to dodge and whine about being bombed in a hallway... come on.

A choke point is just that.. a choke.. and trust me.. if your zerg is dying to 3 necros in a choke.. you just need to quit WvW all together bro... learn to cleanse and roll ... YOU CAN ROLL THROUGH AN ENTIRE BOMB IN A HALLWAY use your V key TWICE... you have 2 rolls!!!!

Say what you want about players at the end of the day your not going to change them and when your only able to go after the "whiners" but not make a real case about why what they are saying is now true is when you know your truly wrong about your point of view.

As long as scorge has both a melee cast and a ranged cast of there f2-f5 at the same time the class will keep getting nerfed. It is that simple. Deal with it get over it and ask for a real update. So we can stop these cdr nerfs or effect nerfs and do what realty needed for the scorge class.

Oh... so elem doesnt have the fire burn on their 1200 skills... ahhh right.. so they dont have a dual cast... Humm.. must have missed that part..

Also.. necros have a TON of heals just by flipping to water... right.. oh wait.. thats you...

necros have a second HP bar... oh wait no we dont anymore..

necros can melee!! .. oh wait.. no we cant.. they nerfed reaper spec to the ground...

necros can 1 shot you with skills.. oh No .. wait.. wrong again.. our skills activation damage got nerfed into the toilet.. so we hit for 300 or less.. on activation and we only apply 1 stack of most conditions .... which you can cleanse instantly in water... right?

so lets see... you need to learn to roll... you need to only swap to water to heal that lil 200 damage on you.. and cleanse 4 condis every 40 seconds.... you dont have to worry about us jumping in and meleeing you becuase we cant anymore... yet... ... what am i missing here? your worried about the "dual skill" on single activation of a skill that does almost no damage and ONLY does damage if you stand in it?? Humm... guess im the idiot... right?

LOL

[CrimsonRise.7650]

@Vova.2640 said:I think the better approach towards nerfing Scourges would be nerfing Sand Savant trait.Extra 120 radius means increasing the area of effect of shades by almost 3 times (2.78 to be more precise)Lower it to 90 bonus radius, and now the increase is only 2.25 times the original radius.Or lower it to 75 bonus radius and now the area of effect is only 2 times larger than without the trait.For reference, necro wells are only 240 radius, so even with bonus 75 radius the shades will have 255 radius, still bigger than the wells.

Also since its only 1 big shade, it should lose the ammo system on F1 and just keep the reduced recharge.Force scourges to be more careful where they place their big shade.

Getting rid of F1 ammo, would make that nerf to radius useless, but radius is not the problem.There's enough Shade spam as it is, yet now the F2-5 skill shave longer cooldowns and cast times too, but Scourges will try be strong in large scale and small groups.

[Ragnarox.9601]

dude stop defending scourges, they were op, still need few nerfs, If I were in dev team I would nerf aoe radius to guardian symbol radius.

[reddie.5861]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@"Slugonaut.9841" said:Anyone who says scourge isnt broken, go watch any of the GvG NA tournament where almost every team has at least 5-7 scourges with 5+ Firebrands. Come on now, its ridiculous. In a 15v15 matchup almost half the team is one class, hell almost 2/3 of the entire squad is only 2 classes. That's the epitome of broken if you ask me.

And yet it would take only 2 Rangers on the opposing team to annihilate all the Scourges. I rest my case, Scourge isn't the problem, players are and their unwillingness to adapt. GvG is about dancing around and waiting for a good opening to strike by forcing your opponents to waste cool downs. What on earth is a team full of scourges and firebrands going to do against a couple of rangers focusing firing down the Scourge? Reflection walls? Too easy to walk around and fire. All the opposing team needs to do is just kite the group until the scourges are dead; it'd take less than a minute. Players these days and their hard-headed ways are unbelievable.

what i would do? force u to come towards me or fuck off..

simple no? u want to fight come to me ill wait for you somewhere where ur range cant make full use out of its range, u dont want? then prepare to lose shit cus all towers/keeps are pretty much close range shit where u get completely wrecked.

see what i did there with ur amazing commanding tactics?if ur gonna say ill pick u guys off when u run from A to B good luck, a pretty stacked group wont die that easy as ur arrow isnt penetrating anything so easy to "dodge" a few hits.

[SWI.4127]

@trueanimus.4085 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@trueanimus.4085 said:Once again.. the whiner's got what they wanted... Necro has been nerfed again... for the 5th patch in a row.

Going to keep happening till the thing i am talking about is fixed. If your getting a double effect on any thing in this game your going to have inflated numbers and there will be an over nerf. Stop being blind to real problems with a class.

One of the whiners... come to whine because he plays elem as a power ele and doesnt want to have to really stack heal gear to be a water bi__ch.

I would say that 5 nerfs in a row... MAJOR nerfs to ALL specs of necro would be considered over the top.. i mean come on. While mesmers and deadeyes can 1 shot any class.. and hammer revs can down and disable any class from 1200 range... they are not OP? Seriously?

ALL necro skills are AOE based... and they have an indicator bro.. a HUGE FREAKING O on the ground... Take one step left or right or Roll with V key and what happens.... NOTHING. You dodge the entire bomb.

The nerfs are happening becuase people like this dont know how to dodge and whine about being bombed in a hallway... come on.

A choke point is just that.. a choke.. and trust me.. if your zerg is dying to 3 necros in a choke.. you just need to quit WvW all together bro... learn to cleanse and roll ... YOU CAN ROLL THROUGH AN ENTIRE BOMB IN A HALLWAY use your V key TWICE... you have 2 rolls!!!!

So what does that make you? Whining because you play a necro and don't want to have to invest into offensive gear to actually do damage?

Not sure what your point is about mesmers and revenants when they both also got nerfed (very heavy nerf in revenant's case)

Also your entire spiel about "just dodge out of it, it's stationary!" is completely disingenuous. What...like necros don't also get the same effect pulsing at their location and can just kill things by walking near them, not even having to aim? You must really think people are dumb if you thought that argument holds any water.