Scourge is Broken in WvW, Please balance it

[XenesisII.1540]

But they also ran tanky as hell with boons out the ying yang in t1, like to the point it looks like boon sharing full time again. Game needs more boon strips and not really corruptions, and spread around a bit, not everything should be on necro.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@morrolan.9608 said:Those defending Scourge should run against the T1 blobs of BG and SOS and then discuss it. Its literally 60 man blobs of which half are scourges. As 1 person said above the issue is its movable aoe combined with what the F1 to F3 skills give. Even with the nerfs if you put scourges in large enough numbers there's not much the opposition can do. And its also the stupid new aoe graphic they have given scourges which literally causes lag all on its own.

Already have, run ranger against them, it's a shooting gallery. Both server's scourge are very easy to kill

[Korgov.7645]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Gallagher.3146 said:They need to just remove the moving AoE around the player's body, having a zerg of even 5-10 people run at you with a pulsing AoE combined with the ground targeted shroud spam is simply too much damage.

They won't change the core mechanics of a class. It's hugely disappointing, but this shitshow is our lot for the next two years. :( IMHO, PoF was a disaster.

They will change numbers on the skills: damage coeffs, base damage, number of conditions...

Now let the number to change be: How many seconds enemy player is immune to the skill once getting hit by one. Increase that number from 0 to 1 for all Scourge skills in WvW only. Problem solved. No?

[morrolan.9608]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@morrolan.9608 said:Those defending Scourge should run against the T1 blobs of BG and SOS and then discuss it. Its literally 60 man blobs of which half are scourges. As 1 person said above the issue is its movable aoe combined with what the F1 to F3 skills give. Even with the nerfs if you put scourges in large enough numbers there's not much the opposition can do. And its also the stupid new aoe graphic they have given scourges which literally causes lag all on its own.

Already have, run ranger against them, it's a shooting gallery. Both server's scourge are very easy to kill

Yes I'm sure running a full group of rangers is going to work against a full zerg with 30 scourges........................The mechanic of a moving aoe is simply broken.

[Svarty.8019]

@Korgov.7645 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@"Gallagher.3146" said:They need to just remove the moving AoE around the player's body, having a zerg of even 5-10 people run at you with a pulsing AoE combined with the ground targeted shroud spam is simply too much damage.

They won't change the core mechanics of a class. It's hugely disappointing, but this shitshow is our lot for the next two years. :( IMHO, PoF was a disaster.

They will change numbers on the skills: damage coeffs, base damage, number of conditions...

Now let the number to change be: How many seconds enemy player is immune to the skill once getting hit by one. Increase that number from 0 to 1 for all Scourge skills in WvW only. Problem solved. No?

Does that exist? Or do they have to write this immunity from scratch? Does their code mean they have to make it by putting a link to every single skill into this faux "ability" ... seems like the work of a few days! Do they have that amount of time spare? Will it impact the performance of the game? We don't know the answers to these questions.

[Korgov.7645]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Korgov.7645 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@"Gallagher.3146" said:They need to just remove the moving AoE around the player's body, having a zerg of even 5-10 people run at you with a pulsing AoE combined with the ground targeted shroud spam is simply too much damage.

They won't change the core mechanics of a class. It's hugely disappointing, but this shitshow is our lot for the next two years. :( IMHO, PoF was a disaster.

They will change numbers on the skills: damage coeffs, base damage, number of conditions...

Now let the number to change be: How many seconds enemy player is immune to the skill once getting hit by one. Increase that number from 0 to 1 for all Scourge skills in WvW only. Problem solved. No?

Does that exist? Or do they have to write this immunity from scratch? Does their code mean they have to make it by putting a link to every single skill into this faux "ability" ... seems like the work of a few days! Do they have that amount of time spare? Will it impact the performance of the game? We don't know the answers to these questions.

Already in the game. For example: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wilting_Strike.

As for performance... if this trait (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Enchantment_Collapse) can exist, then skill immunities can too.

On the other hand, if you need immunities to balance the game, your game design is rotten. :rolleyes: Resistance, Stability, Winds of Disenchantment, perma evade, unblockable skills :rolleyes: But to fix those we would need to rollback 2 expansions and have a good, long look at the core mechanics from WvW point of view.

[FASTCAR.7831]

@"momophily.3814" said:This build: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Scourge_-_Condition_ScourgeAnd those like it are absolutely breaking WvW. Simply put, this completely negates any ability to stay in close range (negating EVERY melee class/build). Not only does it rip Stability, Aegis, Protection and any other sustainable buff; but it flips and corrupts it into a damage. And not only does it make it a damage source, it makes it a high amount of Torment. So you die if you move, No One Stands Still Fighting Other Players! Particularly when in groups like 50 V/S 50, if you stand still then your standing in a bomb of red circles. This is BROKEN in WvW.

Please, please balance this. I’m fine with a loss of boons and I appreciate counter play and hard counters. But running this in any kind of large numbers is an instant win for that group. And its inclusion encourages the play of only the Scourge over all other classes. It’s too strong because there is no counter for this. It has already corrupted possible counters for it, and now you’re running with a fear, bleed, torment and burn stack on you. kitten ANet?

I have never been hurt or killed by a scourge or any necroThey are no harder then any other class ( easier then some for me)I have zero fear of them

[Jski.6180]

@FASTCAR.7831 said:

@"momophily.3814" said:This build:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Scourge_-_Condition_Scourge

And those like it are absolutely breaking WvW. Simply put, this completely negates any ability to stay in close range (negating EVERY melee class/build). Not only does it rip Stability, Aegis, Protection and any other sustainable buff; but it flips and corrupts it into a damage. And not only does it make it a damage source, it makes it a high amount of Torment. So you die if you move, No One Stands Still Fighting Other Players! Particularly when in groups like 50 V/S 50, if you stand still then your standing in a bomb of red circles. This is BROKEN in WvW.

Please, please balance this. I’m fine with a loss of boons and I appreciate counter play and hard counters. But running this in any kind of large numbers is an instant win for that group. And its inclusion encourages the play of only the Scourge over all other classes. It’s too strong because there is no counter for this. It has already corrupted possible counters for it, and now you’re running with a fear, bleed, torment and burn stack on you. kitten ANet?

I have never been hurt or killed by a scourge or any necroThey are no harder then any other class ( easier then some for me)I have zero fear of them

Because the scourges are giving you so much barrier that your never taking dmg to your own hp bar. Its a real problem in wvw atm the meta has dragged to a craw with yellow numbers everywhere now. Its a very boring way to play and cuts the legs out from wvw combat "fun."

Also necro out side of scourge is a sad sad class.

[Sovereign.1093]

bomb as one = dead anything

[Jski.6180]

@Sovereign.1093 said:bomb as one = dead anything

Apply barrier as one live though every thing.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:bomb as one = dead anything

Apply barrier as one live though every thing.

hehe u cant live 50k burst damage

[Jski.6180]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:bomb as one = dead anything

Apply barrier as one live though every thing.

hehe u cant live 50k burst damage

You CAN! Scourge it self can have high hp and high vit as well as getting blocks from converting burning and protection you will see ppl who have 50k hp and then some even if by some magic way every one ping is the same and for some reason do not hit just 5 rng targets in a group with a 5 target cap (scourge who has 10 target cap because op). And that where the other op part comes into play the scourges are doing the burst dmg and boon strips and hitting that 10 targets something ele cant even do the true aoe mages in the game. So less rng of targets from the bomb as well as having some of its effect unblockable (more of a core necro thing) making blocks pointless.

Scorge has every thing and dose every thing at both melee and ranged. The only weakness of scorge is if your build to 1v1 you should have the uperhand vs scorges who are build for group play (you can build scorge for 1v1 as well and that is a monster on its own).

[Catchyfx.5768]

Scourge have ability to hit 10 Ppl? Name pls. Ele does way bigger DPS. Necro (scourge) just benefit from boons So od you spam you Will suffeer.

[Lockheart.4312]

Burst mirage is far worse than scourge ever is. Scourge works in the pirate ship meta. Meanwhile "never been nerfed" infinite dodge mirages can hassle and heckle you with near impunity should the screw up their nuke to delete you.

The only counter to mirage right now is that the mirage player is an idiot or screws up.

[Jski.6180]

@Catchyfx.5768 said:Scourge have ability to hit 10 Ppl? Name pls. Ele does way bigger DPS. Necro (scourge) just benefit from boons So od you spam you Will suffeer.

Well ya... it use to be able to hit 15 ppl when it first came out now its just 10 5 at the scourge feet and 5 at the pAoE the same effect. You do play wvw right? The strobe lights are at the scourge feet as well as there pAoE so double the seizures. Its stronger target potential then metor due to its rng and due to having 5 effects vs the metor 1 effect.

Its out right crazy to play in the current wvw environment and not see a real problem with this class. Whom ever made this class need to be forced to play wvw all the time and nothing else. There is something wrong with this person and they need to be made to see the mess they have made.

I would go as far to say dragon banner is weaker then scourge even though it can hit 50 targets witch is still weaker then scourge f1-f5 because its more then dmg and on a lower cd. Its pure madness.

[Catchyfx.5768]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Catchyfx.5768 said:Scourge have ability to hit 10 Ppl? Name pls. Ele does way bigger DPS. Necro (scourge) just benefit from boons So od you spam you Will suffeer.

Well ya... it use to be able to hit 15 ppl when it first came out now its just 10 5 at the scourge feet and 5 at the pAoE the same effect. You do play wvw right? The strobe lights are at the scourge feet as well as there pAoE so double the seizures. Its stronger target potential then metor due to its rng and due to having 5 effects vs the metor 1 effect.

Its out right crazy to play in the current wvw environment and not see a real problem with this class. Whom ever made this class need to be forced to play wvw all the time and nothing else. There is something wrong with this person and they need to be made to see the mess they have made.

So you are saying that. Scourges Rush to your zerg, place shades And hurt. New meta Frontline scourge? ?. Still od you Are out of boons He JUST tickle you. Maybe some cooperation? Cellofrag JUST made new vid with staff weaver And dat numbers Are porn fór me (reaper). Or whole necro class...

[Jski.6180]

@Catchyfx.5768 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Catchyfx.5768 said:Scourge have ability to hit 10 Ppl? Name pls. Ele does way bigger DPS. Necro (scourge) just benefit from boons So od you spam you Will suffeer.

Well ya... it use to be able to hit 15 ppl when it first came out now its just 10 5 at the scourge feet and 5 at the pAoE the same effect. You do play wvw right? The strobe lights are at the scourge feet as well as there pAoE so double the seizures. Its stronger target potential then metor due to its rng and due to having 5 effects vs the metor 1 effect.

Its out right crazy to play in the current wvw environment and not see a real problem with this class. Whom ever made this class need to be forced to play wvw all the time and nothing else. There is something wrong with this person and they need to be made to see the mess they have made.

So you are saying that. Scourges Rush to your zerg, place shades And hurt. New meta Frontline scourge? ?. Still od you Are out of boons He JUST tickle you. Maybe some cooperation? Cellofrag JUST made new vid with staff weaver And dat numbers Are kitten fór me (reaper). Or whole necro class...

YEP scourge is a front line class and back line class the more scourges the better because its 10 targets enemies and 10 targets ally. You can make the argument its realy 20 targets because of this (though that makes a lot of support dmg all in one skills are 10 targets).

If you can stop a zerg from moving in the current meta then any one dose big numbers dont you get it scourges is adding to this non stop movement of groups making weaver worthless as a wvw class. Weaver only works vs brain dead groups also know as npc. Scourges lets you drop you aoe move drop aoe move over and over non stop on low cd. As well has having boon conversion that lets you soft cc ppl and deal with there boons that lets them move like this. It also keep you from taking much dmg that will make you stop and pull away from bombs.

I will go out of my way to point how just how strong scourge is come from a diffrent point of view. Every thing about scourge is BROKEN.

[Catchyfx.5768]

Nerf necro to be worst class! Wait a moment..So 50scourges Is better then mixed group you wanna Tell me?

[Jski.6180]

@Catchyfx.5768 said:Nerf necro to be worst class! Wait a moment..So 50scourges Is better then mixed group you wanna Tell me?

Necro is not the problem scorge is necro core and reaper are weak because the game has become a healing trintly game. You cant heal these 2 spec. when they are using there tools. You can heal scourge. In a gorup of 50 having 25 ish scourges is best having about 5 to 10 FB to support the scourges maybe 1 weaver ele for cc 4 or so spell brakers.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

If you can't beat them; Join them.

But really: Scourge is starting to become the Ursan Blessing of Guild Wars 2. I hope it ends the same way.

[Jski.6180]

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:If you can't beat them; Join them.

But really: Scourge is starting to become the Ursan Blessing of Guild Wars 2. I hope it ends the same way.

I did till the coming update. Its a lot easier to play i must say.

[SWI.4127]

@Catchyfx.5768 said:Scourge have ability to hit 10 Ppl? Name pls. Ele does way bigger DPS. Necro (scourge) just benefit from boons So od you spam you Will suffeer.

Elementalist actually has to sacrifice survivability for DPS. Scourge does not. As I mentioned in another thread, these shade skills cover more area than Meteor Shower if you trait Sand Savant. But you don't even have to channel it. And you can walk around and affect everyone around you while still using other skills, dodging, etc. You don't even have to aim. It is the most broken mechanic in this mode by far. It would be like if Warrior just pressed a button to have an AoE Hundred Blades swirling around them at all times. This is just talking about the damage portion of the skills, not even the utility of boon corruption, barrier, converting conditions into boons, and CC. This class can equip itself with the tankiest gear, have the highest HP pool in the game, give tons of barrier to itself and allies, has blink/portal in one skill, and still reaches near the top DPS in most fights because of the reliability of all the AoE skills. Way too much defense, way too much offense, way too much utility. No need to sacrifice anything.

The only response I hear from people still against nerfing Scourge is "but a Ranger can focus me down, and we suck at roaming!". As if other classes do not have their inherent weaknesses as well.

@Catchyfx.5768 said:New meta Frontline scourge? ?.

You say this as if it's a joke and not the reality of the game mode since PoF.

[Sovereign.1093]

f1 3 of fb gathers scourges for the kill.

chrono grav well x 2 pull

then pew pew

=) most squads has atleasy 6 fb yeah?

just focus on ridding their mobility or stability.

[morrolan.9608]

@Sovereign.1093 said:f1 3 of fb gathers scourges for the kill.

chrono grav well x 2 pull

then pew pew

=) most squads has atleasy 6 fb yeah?

Doesn't work when faced with 20-30 scourges. Besides most FBs would be in F2 or F3 on engagement and if they aren't then you die anyway because you have no support.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@SWI.4127 said:

@Catchyfx.5768 said:Scourge have ability to hit 10 Ppl? Name pls. Ele does way bigger DPS. Necro (scourge) just benefit from boons So od you spam you Will suffeer.

Elementalist actually has to sacrifice survivability for DPS. Scourge does not. As I mentioned in another thread, these shade skills cover more area than Meteor Shower if you trait Sand Savant. But you don't even have to channel it. And you can walk around and affect everyone around you while still using other skills, dodging, etc. You don't even have to aim. It is the most broken mechanic in this mode by far. It would be like if Warrior just pressed a button to have an AoE Hundred Blades swirling around them at all times. This is just talking about the damage portion of the skills, not even the utility of boon corruption, barrier, converting conditions into boons, and CC. This class can equip itself with the tankiest gear, have the highest HP pool in the game, give tons of barrier to itself and allies, has blink/portal in one skill, and still reaches near the top DPS in most fights because of the reliability of all the AoE skills. Way too much defense, way too much offense, way too much utility. No need to sacrifice anything.

The only response I hear from people still against nerfing Scourge is "but a Ranger can focus me down, and we suck at roaming!". As if other classes do not have their inherent weaknesses as well.

@Catchyfx.5768 said:New meta Frontline scourge? ?.

You say this as if it's a joke and not the reality of the game mode since PoF.

Even after all that, Ele still does light years more DPS, has far better healing, far superior mobility, and can easily keep 100% up time on reflect for their party. Then the scourge, tanky dps (not as much as ele) and nothing more. You mention a blink portal.. it isn't a blink, it's a delayed short ranged teleport that only gains 200 or so distance as someone whose running with swiftness. Their portal is more for the party than anything. Next to no utility and abysmal stun breaks.

And yes Ranger can easily focus them down, to the point it's laughable as it's the biggest mismatch in the game. Every class has their inherent weakness, hence the rock paper scissors.

You can not expect 1 class to be good against every other class, it simply doesn't work that way. Scourge is beyond useless against ranged. What makes Scourge so strong is players refusal to jump on ranged classes. Seriously, the scourge complains simply just can't be bothered to get off their Guardian, Warrior, or Rev; that's what it comes down to, nothing less, nothing more.

Another thing players fail to realize is if you don't want your boons corrupted into whatever conditions to begin with don't run boons to begin with. Take all the utilities off your skill bar that give boons nor don't use weapons that provide boons, bam useless Scourge.