For the Love of God, Delete Mesmer Mantras!

shadowpass.4236 · September 26, 2019

@phokus.8934 said:
@"shadowpass.4236" said:
I never said that mantra mesmer used every single mantra lol.
What I did say was that it can heal up to 10k without any healing power investment. This is true.
The cooldown is also 10 seconds. This is true.
I stated the range of the heal correctly as well.
You're trying to "correct" me when all of the information I've provided is correct. How am I lying?
:joy:
Again, you've demonstrated a very biased viewpoint of the class. There is no point continuing a discussion of any kind with someone like this.The point he's making is that the cooldown is 10 seconds but getting the maximum healing is not 10 seconds; more like 14 seconds when you take into consideration the 2.25 seconds charge and the ICD per cast.

And you'll have to explain your math on 10k healing from MoR when its raw healing is 8515. 3275 + (2620 * 2).

I fully understand what Apharma is saying. But he keeps calling me a liar even though all of the information I've presented has been proven/correct.

The extra healing comes from Restorative Mantras. Again, it is still completely correct to say that MoR can heal up to 10k without any additional healing power.

It's like saying Mind Spike doesn't actually hit for 8k because the extra damage comes from traits. :joy:

He's trying to misrepresent/twist my words in an attempt to undermine my argument because he can't handle being wrong.

Leonidrex.5649 · September 26, 2019

@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@"apharma.3741" said:Mantra of Restoration healing for 10k with a 10s cool down?
Let's fact check that one.
Mantra of Recovery - 2¼s Activation time - 10s Recharge timeHealing: 3,275 (0.4)?Number of Casts: 2
Power Return - 1s Recharge time
Healing: 1,640 (0.25)?Healing below 50%: 2,620 (0.4)?Health Threshold: 50%Count Recharge: 20sMaximum Count: 2
So let's do some math:3,275 + 1,640 +1,640 = 6,555or3,275 + 2,620 + 2,620 = 8,515
Hmmm that's yet again a lie from the OP as usual.
That's not all though, 10s recharge + 2¼s activation time + 1s Recharge time between mantra means the cycle time is 13s - 14s assuming we're hitting the heal exactly on recharges.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Recovery
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Return
TLDR: Don't accept the claims of biased users with an agenda without checking it. I would encourage everyone to properly scrutinise the "facts" being presented in this thread as many do not stand up.

NA mathematics, he also says that stow is 4s cd, while its 5s.I tried to recreate his 7,1k hit with sword 1.Turns out that without stacking might/vulnerability biggest hit i got was 4,9kso what he propably did was stack 25might/vulnerability. and used runes/sigils that give % damage increase even tho you would never ever use them on sword.bend the truth.

More like EU education :joy:

I am extreamly happy that sciencists across the globe dont count time in their heads, can you immagine trying to land on the moon and its screwed up, and they guy says meh i counted to 4s it kinda fit.PS good stacking on that mighy/vuln to get the crit.

Edit, and entire point of this sword 1 clown fiesta.to get that hit you have to :1 Be above 90% hp2 Hit with a 3rd attack of the chain3 Hit a light armoured target4 Hit a target without protection, or toughtness5 Hit a target without boons.6 Have 12 might7 Apply vulnerability onto targetSame hit while under 90% against a guardian with prot and other boons would be turned into 2,5k at best. Propably even lower then that.

Are you blind? LOL the timer literally starts at 4 seconds

Jesus christ what is with you people. You can test it out for yourself in game :joy:

And watch the second video.

My god...

You stated that I must've stacked full might/vulnerability and used extra damage sigils/runes which I did not. I used MoP twice in the first video which is very reasonable to do in an actual fight.
The second video I did not stack any additional might/vulnerability at all.

You got proven wrong. Truth hurts, doesn't it?"so what he propably did was stack 25might/vulnerability"PROPABLY, im sure its very often you get to charge mantra in melee range against boonless low armored target without toughness and then whack them 3 times on glasscannon mesmer.the spirit of what I said was that hiting that 7,1k in a match is not possible unless someone is downed or afk, which you preety much proven by posting that video btw.but hey go kill people with sword 1, while using that broken 10k heal 10s cd heal mantra, while being compelatly CC immune due to broken stability mantra :D

since you play ranger I shall give you example taken out of context that will possibly show how you look to other people like now.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Maul_(ranger_greatsword_skill

) is a 4s cooldown attack that hits for 16k!!!! it also buffs the damage and debuff, uterrly broken nerf!taken out of context eh ? am I wrong?

No, I only charge my mantras when I can guarantee the cast (which is fairly easy to do).

I did not stack 25 might/vulnerability in either video. The first one was around 12 stacks and I hit the light golem for 8k with the third chain.
It's plenty possible. After using f2 to strip boons and landing an f1 shatter, running at them with sword autos can easily kill someone because you'll be at 18 might, they'll have max vuln, and they won't have any boons. This is a very realistic/common scenario.

Sorry, you're incorrect again. Maul will not hit for 16k every 4 seconds even if you run full glass. In contrast, the third part of the sword auto attack chain can

consistently

deal between 5-8k damage every time it connects.

same way you dont use mantra every 10s to hea for 10kmault CAN hit for 16k and HAS 4s cooldown, broken, nerf.

shadowpass.4236 · September 26, 2019

@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@"apharma.3741" said:Mantra of Restoration healing for 10k with a 10s cool down?
Let's fact check that one.
Mantra of Recovery - 2¼s Activation time - 10s Recharge timeHealing: 3,275 (0.4)?Number of Casts: 2
Power Return - 1s Recharge time
Healing: 1,640 (0.25)?Healing below 50%: 2,620 (0.4)?Health Threshold: 50%Count Recharge: 20sMaximum Count: 2
So let's do some math:3,275 + 1,640 +1,640 = 6,555or3,275 + 2,620 + 2,620 = 8,515
Hmmm that's yet again a lie from the OP as usual.
That's not all though, 10s recharge + 2¼s activation time + 1s Recharge time between mantra means the cycle time is 13s - 14s assuming we're hitting the heal exactly on recharges.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Recovery
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Return
TLDR: Don't accept the claims of biased users with an agenda without checking it. I would encourage everyone to properly scrutinise the "facts" being presented in this thread as many do not stand up.

NA mathematics, he also says that stow is 4s cd, while its 5s.I tried to recreate his 7,1k hit with sword 1.Turns out that without stacking might/vulnerability biggest hit i got was 4,9kso what he propably did was stack 25might/vulnerability. and used runes/sigils that give % damage increase even tho you would never ever use them on sword.bend the truth.

More like EU education :joy:

I am extreamly happy that sciencists across the globe dont count time in their heads, can you immagine trying to land on the moon and its screwed up, and they guy says meh i counted to 4s it kinda fit.PS good stacking on that mighy/vuln to get the crit.

Edit, and entire point of this sword 1 clown fiesta.to get that hit you have to :1 Be above 90% hp2 Hit with a 3rd attack of the chain3 Hit a light armoured target4 Hit a target without protection, or toughtness5 Hit a target without boons.6 Have 12 might7 Apply vulnerability onto targetSame hit while under 90% against a guardian with prot and other boons would be turned into 2,5k at best. Propably even lower then that.

Are you blind? LOL the timer literally starts at 4 seconds

Jesus christ what is with you people. You can test it out for yourself in game :joy:

And watch the second video.

My god...

You stated that I must've stacked full might/vulnerability and used extra damage sigils/runes which I did not. I used MoP twice in the first video which is very reasonable to do in an actual fight.
The second video I did not stack any additional might/vulnerability at all.

You got proven wrong. Truth hurts, doesn't it?"so what he propably did was stack 25might/vulnerability"PROPABLY, im sure its very often you get to charge mantra in melee range against boonless low armored target without toughness and then whack them 3 times on glasscannon mesmer.the spirit of what I said was that hiting that 7,1k in a match is not possible unless someone is downed or afk, which you preety much proven by posting that video btw.but hey go kill people with sword 1, while using that broken 10k heal 10s cd heal mantra, while being compelatly CC immune due to broken stability mantra :D

since you play ranger I shall give you example taken out of context that will possibly show how you look to other people like now.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Maul_(ranger_greatsword_skill

) is a 4s cooldown attack that hits for 16k!!!! it also buffs the damage and debuff, uterrly broken nerf!taken out of context eh ? am I wrong?

No, I only charge my mantras when I can guarantee the cast (which is fairly easy to do).

I did not stack 25 might/vulnerability in either video. The first one was around 12 stacks and I hit the light golem for 8k with the third chain.
It's plenty possible. After using f2 to strip boons and landing an f1 shatter, running at them with sword autos can easily kill someone because you'll be at 18 might, they'll have max vuln, and they won't have any boons. This is a very realistic/common scenario.

Sorry, you're incorrect again. Maul will not hit for 16k every 4 seconds even if you run full glass. In contrast, the third part of the sword auto attack chain can

consistently

deal between 5-8k damage every time it connects.

same way you dont use mantra every 10s to hea for 10kmault CAN hit for 16k and HAS 4s cooldown, broken, nerf.

Mantra of Recovery can consistently heal for up to 10k on a 10 second cooldown.
Maul cannot consistently hit for 16k on a 4 second cooldown.

It's not that hard to comprehend.

Tayga.3192 · September 26, 2019

@shadowpass.4236 said:
It's plenty possible. After using f2 to strip boons and landing an f1 shatter, running at them with sword autos can easily kill someone because you'll be at 18 might, they'll have max vuln, and they won't have any boons. This is a very realistic/common scenario.

If for some reason they didn't die to mantra burst, you can't just walk to them and use sword autos.

Leonidrex.5649 · September 26, 2019

@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@"apharma.3741" said:Mantra of Restoration healing for 10k with a 10s cool down?
Let's fact check that one.
Mantra of Recovery - 2¼s Activation time - 10s Recharge timeHealing: 3,275 (0.4)?Number of Casts: 2
Power Return - 1s Recharge time
Healing: 1,640 (0.25)?Healing below 50%: 2,620 (0.4)?Health Threshold: 50%Count Recharge: 20sMaximum Count: 2
So let's do some math:3,275 + 1,640 +1,640 = 6,555or3,275 + 2,620 + 2,620 = 8,515
Hmmm that's yet again a lie from the OP as usual.
That's not all though, 10s recharge + 2¼s activation time + 1s Recharge time between mantra means the cycle time is 13s - 14s assuming we're hitting the heal exactly on recharges.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Recovery
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Return
TLDR: Don't accept the claims of biased users with an agenda without checking it. I would encourage everyone to properly scrutinise the "facts" being presented in this thread as many do not stand up.

NA mathematics, he also says that stow is 4s cd, while its 5s.I tried to recreate his 7,1k hit with sword 1.Turns out that without stacking might/vulnerability biggest hit i got was 4,9kso what he propably did was stack 25might/vulnerability. and used runes/sigils that give % damage increase even tho you would never ever use them on sword.bend the truth.

More like EU education :joy:

I am extreamly happy that sciencists across the globe dont count time in their heads, can you immagine trying to land on the moon and its screwed up, and they guy says meh i counted to 4s it kinda fit.PS good stacking on that mighy/vuln to get the crit.

Edit, and entire point of this sword 1 clown fiesta.to get that hit you have to :1 Be above 90% hp2 Hit with a 3rd attack of the chain3 Hit a light armoured target4 Hit a target without protection, or toughtness5 Hit a target without boons.6 Have 12 might7 Apply vulnerability onto targetSame hit while under 90% against a guardian with prot and other boons would be turned into 2,5k at best. Propably even lower then that.

Are you blind? LOL the timer literally starts at 4 seconds

Jesus christ what is with you people. You can test it out for yourself in game :joy:

And watch the second video.

My god...

You stated that I must've stacked full might/vulnerability and used extra damage sigils/runes which I did not. I used MoP twice in the first video which is very reasonable to do in an actual fight.
The second video I did not stack any additional might/vulnerability at all.

You got proven wrong. Truth hurts, doesn't it?"so what he propably did was stack 25might/vulnerability"PROPABLY, im sure its very often you get to charge mantra in melee range against boonless low armored target without toughness and then whack them 3 times on glasscannon mesmer.the spirit of what I said was that hiting that 7,1k in a match is not possible unless someone is downed or afk, which you preety much proven by posting that video btw.but hey go kill people with sword 1, while using that broken 10k heal 10s cd heal mantra, while being compelatly CC immune due to broken stability mantra :D

since you play ranger I shall give you example taken out of context that will possibly show how you look to other people like now.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Maul_(ranger_greatsword_skill

) is a 4s cooldown attack that hits for 16k!!!! it also buffs the damage and debuff, uterrly broken nerf!taken out of context eh ? am I wrong?

No, I only charge my mantras when I can guarantee the cast (which is fairly easy to do).

I did not stack 25 might/vulnerability in either video. The first one was around 12 stacks and I hit the light golem for 8k with the third chain.
It's plenty possible. After using f2 to strip boons and landing an f1 shatter, running at them with sword autos can easily kill someone because you'll be at 18 might, they'll have max vuln, and they won't have any boons. This is a very realistic/common scenario.

Sorry, you're incorrect again. Maul will not hit for 16k every 4 seconds even if you run full glass. In contrast, the third part of the sword auto attack chain can

consistently

deal between 5-8k damage every time it connects.

same way you dont use mantra every 10s to hea for 10kmault CAN hit for 16k and HAS 4s cooldown, broken, nerf.

Mantra of Recovery
can
consistently heal for up to 10k on a 10 second cooldown.
Maul
cannot
consistently hit for 16k on a 4 second cooldown.

It's not that hard to comprehend.

preety reliable to me, from stealth at that tooedit, some of those hits are 26k what the actual fuck lol.

mortrialus.3062 · September 26, 2019

I'm surprised there is this much resistance to this thread.

I think most players including mesmers would like to see power and condi mesmer in PvP given adjustments. Power's damage should be forcibly uncompressed and spread out. It's not healthy for the game for a spec to be able to overlap 8 pulses of serious damage all at once from stealth with only a fraction of a second of a tell, if that. Power mesmer should be a viable part of the game, but it's damage out put should be a bit more even and less gimmicky. More similar in playstyle to the old Disenchanter Mirage we saw after the Phantasm rework, just not stupidly OP the way that build originally was. Even burstier specs should exist, but on a fundamental game design level I don't think any build should be killing any other build in less than 4 seconds. And addressing the offensive mantras and the Greatsword burst is absolutely part of getting mesmer to this place. Both need reworks.

On the other end of the spectrum, the current condi mirage build has the opposite problem. Rather than overlapping multiple pulses of lethal damage at once and having too small of a tell, it assaults foes with an endless barrage of chip damage and having too much animation. Condi Mirage should also see reworks and have it's damage output condensed towards landing a number of skill shots leads you to victory and getting kills, not just having clones bombard opponents with constant bits of chip damage racking up bleeds with Sharper Images and just Pistol Phantasm carrying your burst. Similar in playstyle to the old Carrion Ineptitude build, but just not as stupidly OP as that build was. But the playstyle was healthier, where there were a number of skills you needed to land or avoid in order to swing the fight more in your favor depending on whether you were playing the build or against it.

Both are unhealthy playstyles for the game. While I don't think Power or Condi Mesmers are extremely over powered and are in a good place; good players excel at both and bad players fail at both, I think most would agree the game would be healthier if both extremes of the class were condensed to be more even in terms of damage out put, tells, and animation as well as trimming instant cast damage from both of them.

viquing.8254 · September 26, 2019

@shadowpass.4236 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
There are so many ways to deal with the thief. I do not have to stealth in order to survive getting jumped by one.
Your reaction time must be INSANELY slow if the quickest you can blink after the thief is after two whole Infiltrator's Arrows :joy: Not to mention they'll be completely out of initiative. What tier thieves are you fighting that double IA the second you go into stealth? LOL
If you can't reactively dodge the attack portion of Infiltrator's Strike, you probably don't have the skill level necessary to debate this topic properly.
Again, L2P issue. Why are you worried about getting decapped on a roaming build? Are you trying to side node with mantra mesmer? :joy:
Another L2P issue. You can cancel Mirror right before the cast time finishes to get the full reflect and it only puts the heal on a 4 second cooldown. I figured a mesmer main would know that.
I've had thieves attempt to "hunt me" all game because they knew I was on glass mesmer. Unfortunately for them, they ended up getting farmed.
Lol I had Vallun chasing me for two minutes on thief. He couldn't kill me until I was getting 3v1'd.
https://clips.twitch.tv/DreamyCulturedWoodcockYouDontSay
https://clips.twitch.tv/PatientCleanNarwhalTF2John
So they are bad.
You play a build that require some setup to one shot, you will never one shot a half decent thief with blink->burst where he can see you.
I can on bad thiefs too, you know the same as you meet.
So you admit being weakier than other roaming build ? :joy:
Then you didn't get the full reflect duration
and
cases where it's better to delay the heal aren't many. Not saying that a thief will not projectile evade while you reflect but aoe shortbow or melee.
Again you never meet good player, should be thief or rev.
He is on a 1v1 melee build on one of the worst chase ability on thief build, hopefully you can run away and kite.

No, the thieves are not bad. You have access to the tools you need to survive against a thief jumping on you on mesmer. If you choose not to use them, you deserve to die.
Lol... really?? No kitten sherlock. Half of this thread is me telling people that setting up the burst properly is what counts. If you walk up to the thief or attempt to blink burst him in plain sight then yeah, chances are it's not going to connect. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
Okay so I get the feeling English isn't your first language because a lot of your responses make zero sense in regards to what I said. Also, I can't completely understand you all of the time. If you have a good reaction time and you're paying attention, you can reactively dodge Infiltrator's Strike 100% of the time. The immobilize will hit you a quarter of a second after the teleport. In other words, it's equivalent to the average person's reaction time to visual stimuli. The majority of players in the game can dodge it reliably if they practiced.
See the first half of the above response. I have no idea what point you're trying to get across or what you mean.
Lol?? Like I said, it's a L2P issue on your part. You can essentially get the full reflect duration and put it on a 4 second cooldown if you cancel it right before it finishes casting. There are plenty of reasons and applications for this. Obviously, if you desperately need the healing, then don't cancel it unless you have a reason to. However, there are a lot of times when I'm at full health where I can easily reflect Point Blank Shot or engi rifle projectiles + static discharges just cause Mirror is busted like that. In the condi thief matchup, if I get hit with S2 I can just reactively Mirror the Lotus Training that follows.
I've been playing in tournaments/competitively since this game came out. I've fought against all of the top players on NA as well as a majority of the ones on EU including Sind and co.
Stop contradicting yourself. The build he's running has WAY more mobility than I do. However, I reacted every time he tried to hit me in stealth, I LoS'd his projectiles, stayed out of range of Swipe, juked him, baited his dodges, and I even did a nice little Mirror cancel into torch 4 to blind his next attack which could've killed me cause I wasn't going to get the heal off in time. Etc. etc. there was a lot more I did to outplay Vallun in the clips I linked

They have better pressure uptime than you have sustain uptime, if you can't get it, you probably better focus on 1 profession than do aproximative multiclass.
? so we agree ?
Most thieves attacks can be dodged by
anticipation
, not by visualising the animation because 0.25 sec isn't readable if :
- the thief has > 50 ping : the animation will trigger after the attack.
- you have >50 ping : your dodge will trigger after the attack.Then he has a better pressure uptime than you have with tempo uptime so ofc you can survive the first 20 sec, but after this, it's a matter of time that you will get hit and even few hit mean : cripple and weakness that mean you shouldn't move that easier on the IS location and a burst under weakness is unlikely.
Thief has only few attacks that need to be reflected in his tools.
Which doesn't describe if you get top 30 off peak or not.
And what were the result vs sind and co ?
His build with staff is under other thief builds in term of chasing ability. it's a 1v1 on point fight build.

Okay so let's put this scenario out there.
- Thief opens with S2
- If I don't evade it, I can use Power Lock or Diversion immediately to prevent the thief from landing the immobilize then distort or GS2 cancel swap into Blurred Frenzy or stealth to try and bait the steal out when he thinks I'm going to burst.
- Etc. etc.I can play every class and maintain my rating. There are a few I can carry games on with ranger and mesmer being the most effective for me.
Every single non-stealth attack except for steal and other instant cast abilities can be avoided reactively. I have anywhere from 20-60 ping on NA depending on what else is going on. I never have an issue dodging it. It'll only start to get unreliable at around 95 ping with average reaction times.
Lol I only que on NA peak hours during the week.
I've fought Sind on both NA and EU. I main side node so I was able to kite him pretty effectively on several maps including in a 1v2 with one of the engi mains on his team during a tournament. However, since I was running lb/gs ranger (weapons that don't have instant interrupts), I had to save them to interrupt Larcenous Strike rather than Infiltrator's Strike.
Okay but that build still has way higher mobility than I do on core berserker mes. He should've been able to easily stay on top of me.
You have 2 stealth with >=30 sec CD, if you use it on an attack who can be used many time, it's bad.
Best is to use a lock or dodge yeah but he will not eat a dead burst with this.
GS2 cancel for what ?
Which mean that this game is in a so bad pegi4 gameplay state that eveyone can pickup a build from metabattle and perform at the same level he has. I see the same when I try a metabattle thief build a day.
When you add the opponent ping + the user ping = you are very unlikely to animation react to a 0.25 cast.We can discuss about NA connexion versus EU connexion if you want.Will answer this in the other reply post because we are mixing two discussions.
Not since mes has superspeed on manipulation.Okay. First of all, can you please stop pressing enter every single time you respond to a different sentence. It's spacing them out and I have to keep formatting them to make them easier to read.Nope, its for the context. I found it better readable like this.
Yeah but they last 4 seconds and 9 seconds respectively and pulse protective boons like protection and aegis. Not only will the thief be unable to target you for 13 seconds, but any attacks they do hit you with after you come out of stealth (if you aren't halfway across the map and out of combat) will do less damage (prot) or no damage (aegis).Or pulse no defensive boon like 1 might or swiftness since they nerfed the rng. 1 stack might guy, its clearly op and contribute to the instant burst.
I don't need to oneshot him after preventing the S2 from hitting if that's what you're saying.
Lol just watch these clips of me fighting Vallun. I cancelled GS2 several times to bait out his evades. Go to
42 seconds
and
10 seconds
.You fake GS2 to burn his evade ok, then what Blurred Frenzy does here ? I didn't get it in your sentence " GS2 cancel swap into Blurred Frenzy ".
No it means I have a lot of experience playing every class and understand how they all work and play at a high level.Not really, a no pegi4 game require some investment in a class to master the gameplay even for pro players, not just poping a metabattle build and perform as usual.
Your opponent's ping has no effect on whether or not you dodge the attack.You never meet the usual rev who hit you melee from 900 range because they are lagging ?
Sorry to break it to you but that thief build still has way more mobility than I do even with the superspeed.Staff is obvious when chasing and useless again someone under 30% superspeed uptime + 2 stealth. So no he clearly haven't the right spec to counter you efficiently.

I never see a mes running MoR since they nerfed the condi clear in inspiration.
And I answering that it's not.
It's not the strongest healing skills in the game just because you say it, there are way more things to consider than just the raw heal per sec.
That's why it's never used.Now that I have time I will describe why (all of theses breakstunt.):When you look at other class similar skill :Stand the ground has a 600 AOE (MoC 240 radius, hello), longer duration while longer CD, instant cast.U elixir give Quickness, Stability and vigor for 6 sec baseline of time + might+ heal + , instant cast (+ toss.).Trail of anguish corrupt boon, apply condition, give swiftness and stab for 6sec baseline, instant cast.Rampage, well it's rampage.Dolyak stance clear movement condition while being immune to it + give 6 sec stab baseline (it's more with leader of the pack.), instant cast.
Did you start to understand why having a 3 rechannel cast on a 'only apply stability' skill is bad ?
Did you start to understand that even for other professions, having mobility utility give better sustain than stab utility ?
So explain me the pro of having mantra of concentration on my skillbar please. In which world having 2*3 sec of stability versus class who, for most of them run fastier than me is an advantage ?
So now the full combo work even with no stealth engaging ? Is stealth fine now ?
There is +4 to +9 time shift between NA and EU so basically when it's the prime time on NA it's full night on EU. In which case it's not difficult at all to be 30+ on EU ladder. (Thats how 4 players in top 10 currently play.)
EU player counter condi thieves but not on a non viable burst build.
Okay. It's still perfectly viable.I never see a mes running MoR since they nerfed the condi clear in inspiration.But yeah something viable probably isn't used ofc.
Up to
10,155 healing
with zero healing power investment on a 10 second cooldown. You're wrong. Mantra of Recovery
is
objectively one of the strongest healing skills in the game.1st there is more thing to consider than just the raw heal/sec.2nd the 3/3/3/3/3/3/3 mesmer build didn't exist as far as I know.
No, it's one of the strongest healing skills based off of reality and numbers.That"s why nobody use it.All players except you are noobs who can figure how op this skill is. Thanks for this explanation.
It's used.It's not.
It's not bad.It is.
Both are equally important.1 : open metabattle.2: Look at utility slot on metabuild.3 : figure out that mobility skills are far more represented than no-mobility skills.4 : thanks.
Sure. It gives you 11 seconds of stability (7 stacks total), 5 seconds of aegis, and 5 seconds of quickness on a 15 second cooldown with ZERO investment into boon duration.That"s why nobody use it.All players except you are noobs who can figure how op this skill is. Thanks for this explanation.

@"mortrialus.3062" said:I'm surprised there is this much resistance to this thread.

I think most players including mesmers would like to see power and condi mesmer in PvP given adjustments. Power's damage should be forcibly uncompressed and spread out. It's not healthy for the game for a spec to be able to overlap 8 pulses of serious damage all at once from stealth with only a fraction of a second of a tell, if that. Power mesmer should be a viable part of the game, but it's damage out put should be a bit more even and less gimmicky. More similar in playstyle to the old

Disenchanter Mirage

we saw after the Phantasm rework, just not stupidly OP the way that build originally was. Even burstier specs should exist, but on a fundamental game design level I don't think any build should be killing any other build in less than 4 seconds. And addressing the offensive mantras and the Greatsword burst is absolutely part of getting mesmer to this place. Both need reworks.

On the other end of the spectrum, the current condi mirage build has the opposite problem. Rather than overlapping multiple pulses of lethal damage at once and having too small of a tell, it assaults foes with an endless barrage of chip damage and having too much animation. Condi Mirage should also see reworks and have it's damage output condensed towards landing a number of skill shots leads you to victory and getting kills, not just having clones bombard opponents with constant bits of chip damage racking up bleeds with Sharper Images and just Pistol Phantasm carrying your burst. Similar in playstyle to the old

Carrion Ineptitude

build, but just not as stupidly OP as that build was. But the playstyle was healthier, where there were a number of skills you needed to land or avoid in order to swing the fight more in your favor depending on whether you were playing the build or against it.

Both are unhealthy playstyles for the game. While I don't think Power or Condi Mesmers are extremely over powered and are in a good place; good players excel at both and bad players fail at both, I think most would agree the game would be healthier if both extremes of the class were condensed to be more even in terms of damage out put, tells, and animation as well as trimming instant cast damage from both of them.

You shouldn't if you think that mes will support more mesmers nerfs just because one day someone get mad of getting one shot while playing a squishy build overrestimated to his reaction time.You are welcome if you want to take part to this l2p discussion.

Problem with you view is that :

Mesmer can't do constant pressure because it's unfun.
Mesmer can't do high burst because it's unfun.
Mesmer can't do tank because it's unfun.
Mesmer can't stealth because it's unfun.
Mesmer can't rupt because it's unfun.
Mesmer can't pop illusion because it's unfun. (I will be pretty happy with a spec without illusion throught.)
Mesmer can't play aoe teamplay because it's a duellist.

The conclusion is just that mesmer can't play at all because bob the GWENR class want to play an easy game.You can suggest all you want, you will always have a casual mouseclicker who will get farmed whether mesmer has only 1 weapon set and no utility because he can't mouseclick and select the mes under his illusions.

mortrialus.3062 · September 26, 2019

@viquing.8254 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
There are so many ways to deal with the thief. I do not have to stealth in order to survive getting jumped by one.
Your reaction time must be INSANELY slow if the quickest you can blink after the thief is after two whole Infiltrator's Arrows :joy: Not to mention they'll be completely out of initiative. What tier thieves are you fighting that double IA the second you go into stealth? LOL
If you can't reactively dodge the attack portion of Infiltrator's Strike, you probably don't have the skill level necessary to debate this topic properly.
Again, L2P issue. Why are you worried about getting decapped on a roaming build? Are you trying to side node with mantra mesmer? :joy:
Another L2P issue. You can cancel Mirror right before the cast time finishes to get the full reflect and it only puts the heal on a 4 second cooldown. I figured a mesmer main would know that.
I've had thieves attempt to "hunt me" all game because they knew I was on glass mesmer. Unfortunately for them, they ended up getting farmed.
Lol I had Vallun chasing me for two minutes on thief. He couldn't kill me until I was getting 3v1'd.
https://clips.twitch.tv/DreamyCulturedWoodcockYouDontSay
https://clips.twitch.tv/PatientCleanNarwhalTF2John
So they are bad.
You play a build that require some setup to one shot, you will never one shot a half decent thief with blink->burst where he can see you.
I can on bad thiefs too, you know the same as you meet.
So you admit being weakier than other roaming build ? :joy:
Then you didn't get the full reflect duration
and
cases where it's better to delay the heal aren't many. Not saying that a thief will not projectile evade while you reflect but aoe shortbow or melee.
Again you never meet good player, should be thief or rev.
He is on a 1v1 melee build on one of the worst chase ability on thief build, hopefully you can run away and kite.

No, the thieves are not bad. You have access to the tools you need to survive against a thief jumping on you on mesmer. If you choose not to use them, you deserve to die.
Lol... really?? No kitten sherlock. Half of this thread is me telling people that setting up the burst properly is what counts. If you walk up to the thief or attempt to blink burst him in plain sight then yeah, chances are it's not going to connect. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
Okay so I get the feeling English isn't your first language because a lot of your responses make zero sense in regards to what I said. Also, I can't completely understand you all of the time. If you have a good reaction time and you're paying attention, you can reactively dodge Infiltrator's Strike 100% of the time. The immobilize will hit you a quarter of a second after the teleport. In other words, it's equivalent to the average person's reaction time to visual stimuli. The majority of players in the game can dodge it reliably if they practiced.
See the first half of the above response. I have no idea what point you're trying to get across or what you mean.
Lol?? Like I said, it's a L2P issue on your part. You can essentially get the full reflect duration and put it on a 4 second cooldown if you cancel it right before it finishes casting. There are plenty of reasons and applications for this. Obviously, if you desperately need the healing, then don't cancel it unless you have a reason to. However, there are a lot of times when I'm at full health where I can easily reflect Point Blank Shot or engi rifle projectiles + static discharges just cause Mirror is busted like that. In the condi thief matchup, if I get hit with S2 I can just reactively Mirror the Lotus Training that follows.
I've been playing in tournaments/competitively since this game came out. I've fought against all of the top players on NA as well as a majority of the ones on EU including Sind and co.
Stop contradicting yourself. The build he's running has WAY more mobility than I do. However, I reacted every time he tried to hit me in stealth, I LoS'd his projectiles, stayed out of range of Swipe, juked him, baited his dodges, and I even did a nice little Mirror cancel into torch 4 to blind his next attack which could've killed me cause I wasn't going to get the heal off in time. Etc. etc. there was a lot more I did to outplay Vallun in the clips I linked

They have better pressure uptime than you have sustain uptime, if you can't get it, you probably better focus on 1 profession than do aproximative multiclass.
? so we agree ?
Most thieves attacks can be dodged by
anticipation
, not by visualising the animation because 0.25 sec isn't readable if :
- the thief has > 50 ping : the animation will trigger after the attack.
- you have >50 ping : your dodge will trigger after the attack.Then he has a better pressure uptime than you have with tempo uptime so ofc you can survive the first 20 sec, but after this, it's a matter of time that you will get hit and even few hit mean : cripple and weakness that mean you shouldn't move that easier on the IS location and a burst under weakness is unlikely.
Thief has only few attacks that need to be reflected in his tools.
Which doesn't describe if you get top 30 off peak or not.
And what were the result vs sind and co ?
His build with staff is under other thief builds in term of chasing ability. it's a 1v1 on point fight build.

Okay so let's put this scenario out there.
- Thief opens with S2
- If I don't evade it, I can use Power Lock or Diversion immediately to prevent the thief from landing the immobilize then distort or GS2 cancel swap into Blurred Frenzy or stealth to try and bait the steal out when he thinks I'm going to burst.
- Etc. etc.I can play every class and maintain my rating. There are a few I can carry games on with ranger and mesmer being the most effective for me.
Every single non-stealth attack except for steal and other instant cast abilities can be avoided reactively. I have anywhere from 20-60 ping on NA depending on what else is going on. I never have an issue dodging it. It'll only start to get unreliable at around 95 ping with average reaction times.
Lol I only que on NA peak hours during the week.
I've fought Sind on both NA and EU. I main side node so I was able to kite him pretty effectively on several maps including in a 1v2 with one of the engi mains on his team during a tournament. However, since I was running lb/gs ranger (weapons that don't have instant interrupts), I had to save them to interrupt Larcenous Strike rather than Infiltrator's Strike.
Okay but that build still has way higher mobility than I do on core berserker mes. He should've been able to easily stay on top of me.
You have 2 stealth with >=30 sec CD, if you use it on an attack who can be used many time, it's bad.
Best is to use a lock or dodge yeah but he will not eat a dead burst with this.
GS2 cancel for what ?
Which mean that this game is in a so bad pegi4 gameplay state that eveyone can pickup a build from metabattle and perform at the same level he has. I see the same when I try a metabattle thief build a day.
When you add the opponent ping + the user ping = you are very unlikely to animation react to a 0.25 cast.We can discuss about NA connexion versus EU connexion if you want.Will answer this in the other reply post because we are mixing two discussions.
Not since mes has superspeed on manipulation.Okay. First of all, can you please stop pressing enter every single time you respond to a different sentence. It's spacing them out and I have to keep formatting them to make them easier to read.Nope, its for the context. I found it better readable like this.
Yeah but they last 4 seconds and 9 seconds respectively and pulse protective boons like protection and aegis. Not only will the thief be unable to target you for 13 seconds, but any attacks they do hit you with after you come out of stealth (if you aren't halfway across the map and out of combat) will do less damage (prot) or no damage (aegis).Or pulse no defensive boon like 1 might or swiftness since they nerfed the rng. 1 stack might guy, its clearly op and contribute to the instant burst.
I don't need to oneshot him after preventing the S2 from hitting if that's what you're saying.
Lol just watch these clips of me fighting Vallun. I cancelled GS2 several times to bait out his evades. Go to
42 seconds
and
10 seconds
.You fake GS2 to burn his evade ok, then what Blurred Frenzy does here ? I didn't get it in your sentence " GS2 cancel swap into Blurred Frenzy ".
No it means I have a lot of experience playing every class and understand how they all work and play at a high level.Not really, a no pegi4 game require some investment in a class to master the gameplay even for pro players, not just poping a metabattle build and perform as usual.
Your opponent's ping has no effect on whether or not you dodge the attack.You never meet the usual rev who hit you melee from 900 range because they are lagging ?
Sorry to break it to you but that thief build still has way more mobility than I do even with the superspeed.Staff is obvious when chasing and useless again someone under 30% superspeed uptime + 2 stealth. So no he clearly haven't the right spec to counter you efficiently.

I never see a mes running MoR since they nerfed the condi clear in inspiration.
And I answering that it's not.
It's not the strongest healing skills in the game just because you say it, there are way more things to consider than just the raw heal per sec.
That's why it's never used.Now that I have time I will describe why (all of theses breakstunt.):When you look at other class similar skill :Stand the ground has a 600 AOE (MoC 240 radius, hello), longer duration while longer CD, instant cast.U elixir give Quickness, Stability and vigor for 6 sec baseline of time + might+ heal + , instant cast (+ toss.).Trail of anguish corrupt boon, apply condition, give swiftness and stab for 6sec baseline, instant cast.Rampage, well it's rampage.Dolyak stance clear movement condition while being immune to it + give 6 sec stab baseline (it's more with leader of the pack.), instant cast.
Did you start to understand why having a 3 rechannel cast on a 'only apply stability' skill is bad ?
Did you start to understand that even for other professions, having mobility utility give better sustain than stab utility ?
So explain me the pro of having mantra of concentration on my skillbar please. In which world having 2*3 sec of stability versus class who, for most of them run fastier than me is an advantage ?
So now the full combo work even with no stealth engaging ? Is stealth fine now ?
There is +4 to +9 time shift between NA and EU so basically when it's the prime time on NA it's full night on EU. In which case it's not difficult at all to be 30+ on EU ladder. (Thats how 4 players in top 10 currently play.)
EU player counter condi thieves but not on a non viable burst build.
Okay. It's still perfectly viable.I never see a mes running MoR since they nerfed the condi clear in inspiration.But yeah something viable probably isn't used ofc.
Up to
10,155 healing
with zero healing power investment on a 10 second cooldown. You're wrong. Mantra of Recovery
is
objectively one of the strongest healing skills in the game.1st there is more thing to consider than just the raw heal/sec.2nd the 3/3/3/3/3/3/3 mesmer build didn't exist as far as I know.
No, it's one of the strongest healing skills based off of reality and numbers.That"s why nobody use it.All players except you are noobs who can figure how op this skill is. Thanks for this explanation.
It's used.It's not.
It's not bad.It is.
Both are equally important.1 : open metabattle.2: Look at utility slot on metabuild.3 : figure out that mobility skills are far more represented than no-mobility skills.4 : thanks.
Sure. It gives you 11 seconds of stability (7 stacks total), 5 seconds of aegis, and 5 seconds of quickness on a 15 second cooldown with ZERO investment into boon duration.That"s why nobody use it.All players except you are noobs who can figure how op this skill is. Thanks for this explanation.

@"mortrialus.3062" said:I'm surprised there is this much resistance to this thread.

I think most players including mesmers would like to see power and condi mesmer in PvP given adjustments. Power's damage should be forcibly uncompressed and spread out. It's not healthy for the game for a spec to be able to overlap 8 pulses of serious damage all at once from stealth with only a fraction of a second of a tell, if that. Power mesmer should be a viable part of the game, but it's damage out put should be a bit more even and less gimmicky. More similar in playstyle to the old

Disenchanter Mirage

we saw after the Phantasm rework, just not stupidly OP the way that build originally was. Even burstier specs should exist, but on a fundamental game design level I don't think any build should be killing any other build in less than 4 seconds. And addressing the offensive mantras and the Greatsword burst is absolutely part of getting mesmer to this place. Both need reworks.

On the other end of the spectrum, the current condi mirage build has the opposite problem. Rather than overlapping multiple pulses of lethal damage at once and having too small of a tell, it assaults foes with an endless barrage of chip damage and having too much animation. Condi Mirage should also see reworks and have it's damage output condensed towards landing a number of skill shots leads you to victory and getting kills, not just having clones bombard opponents with constant bits of chip damage racking up bleeds with Sharper Images and just Pistol Phantasm carrying your burst. Similar in playstyle to the old

Carrion Ineptitude

build, but just not as stupidly OP as that build was. But the playstyle was healthier, where there were a number of skills you needed to land or avoid in order to swing the fight more in your favor depending on whether you were playing the build or against it.

Both are unhealthy playstyles for the game. While I don't think Power or Condi Mesmers are extremely over powered and are in a good place; good players excel at both and bad players fail at both, I think most would agree the game would be healthier if both extremes of the class were condensed to be more even in terms of damage out put, tells, and animation as well as trimming instant cast damage from both of them.

You shouldn't if you think that mes will support more mesmers nerfs just because one day someone get mad of getting one shot while playing a squishy build overrestimated to his reaction time.You are welcome if you want to take part to this l2p discussion.

Problem with you view is that :

Mesmer can't do constant pressure because it's unfun.

Yes, I don't think any class should be defined by having it and AI auto attack and Ambush attack for literally nonstop if even condition damage.

Mesmer can't do high burst because it's unfun.

Literally nothing, NOTHING, should be ending fights in less than a second in a good action RPG system. Less than 5 seconds is ridiculous. On the opposite end of the spectrum I don't think anything should be capable of sustaining fights past 60s. 20-40s is the golden window for any 1v1 fight.

Mesmer can't do tank because it's unfun.

The best mesmer build right now literally does nothing else but sustain and kite while having clones bleed out enemies.

Mesmer can't stealth because it's unfun.

Mesmers can stealth plenty. Just from a thematic perspective mesmers should be a long side thieves as the stealth kings. But there's a point were it does become overpowered. I don't think mesmer has hit that point just yet.

Mesmer can't rupt because it's unfun.

Mesmers have loads of interrupts. Literally no other class comes close to the number of dazes. No other class as this point aside from core necro has instant cast interrupts the way mesmer does.

Mesmer can't pop illusion because it's unfun. (I will be pretty happy with a spec without illusion throught.)Shatters are a unique problem. I've personally thought it an ill fitting mechanic for an illusionist / enchanter class and would be more fitting for a necromancer.

But like I said, on a philosophical class design balance perspective it should be fundamentally impossible for 1v1 fights to end shorter than 5s and last longer than 60s. 20-40s 1v1s is the golden window.

Mesmer can't play aoe teamplay because it's a duellist.I'm personally happy to see a lot of the windows restricting mesmer to 1v1s and 1v1s mostly removed.
The conclusion is just that mesmer can't play at all because bob the GWENR class want to play an easy game.You can suggest all you want, you will always have a casual mouseclicker who will get farmed whether mesmer has only 1 weapon set and no utility because he can't mouseclick and select the mes under his illusions.

If you're calling me a casual mouse clicker you can get bent.

Crab Fear.1624 · September 26, 2019

I was wondering if you are doing experiments Shadowpass?

Everytime you start a thread about something OP and keep it trucking for a bit, the little squirts pop up everywhere when before there was none.

If you are wondering if players will flock to whatever they believe to be the OP FOTM, let me save you the trouble....they will.

I was seeing hardly any mantra mes, and now like flies on the full trash can.

Tayga.3192 · September 26, 2019

@Crab Fear.1624 said:I was seeing hardly any mantra mes, and now like flies on the full trash can.

I even added the build to metabattle, lol.

shadowpass.4236 · September 27, 2019

@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@"apharma.3741" said:Mantra of Restoration healing for 10k with a 10s cool down?
Let's fact check that one.
Mantra of Recovery - 2¼s Activation time - 10s Recharge timeHealing: 3,275 (0.4)?Number of Casts: 2
Power Return - 1s Recharge time
Healing: 1,640 (0.25)?Healing below 50%: 2,620 (0.4)?Health Threshold: 50%Count Recharge: 20sMaximum Count: 2
So let's do some math:3,275 + 1,640 +1,640 = 6,555or3,275 + 2,620 + 2,620 = 8,515
Hmmm that's yet again a lie from the OP as usual.
That's not all though, 10s recharge + 2¼s activation time + 1s Recharge time between mantra means the cycle time is 13s - 14s assuming we're hitting the heal exactly on recharges.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Recovery
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Return
TLDR: Don't accept the claims of biased users with an agenda without checking it. I would encourage everyone to properly scrutinise the "facts" being presented in this thread as many do not stand up.

NA mathematics, he also says that stow is 4s cd, while its 5s.I tried to recreate his 7,1k hit with sword 1.Turns out that without stacking might/vulnerability biggest hit i got was 4,9kso what he propably did was stack 25might/vulnerability. and used runes/sigils that give % damage increase even tho you would never ever use them on sword.bend the truth.

More like EU education :joy:

I am extreamly happy that sciencists across the globe dont count time in their heads, can you immagine trying to land on the moon and its screwed up, and they guy says meh i counted to 4s it kinda fit.PS good stacking on that mighy/vuln to get the crit.

Edit, and entire point of this sword 1 clown fiesta.to get that hit you have to :1 Be above 90% hp2 Hit with a 3rd attack of the chain3 Hit a light armoured target4 Hit a target without protection, or toughtness5 Hit a target without boons.6 Have 12 might7 Apply vulnerability onto targetSame hit while under 90% against a guardian with prot and other boons would be turned into 2,5k at best. Propably even lower then that.

Are you blind? LOL the timer literally starts at 4 seconds

Jesus christ what is with you people. You can test it out for yourself in game :joy:

And watch the second video.

My god...

You stated that I must've stacked full might/vulnerability and used extra damage sigils/runes which I did not. I used MoP twice in the first video which is very reasonable to do in an actual fight.
The second video I did not stack any additional might/vulnerability at all.

You got proven wrong. Truth hurts, doesn't it?"so what he propably did was stack 25might/vulnerability"PROPABLY, im sure its very often you get to charge mantra in melee range against boonless low armored target without toughness and then whack them 3 times on glasscannon mesmer.the spirit of what I said was that hiting that 7,1k in a match is not possible unless someone is downed or afk, which you preety much proven by posting that video btw.but hey go kill people with sword 1, while using that broken 10k heal 10s cd heal mantra, while being compelatly CC immune due to broken stability mantra :D

since you play ranger I shall give you example taken out of context that will possibly show how you look to other people like now.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Maul_(ranger_greatsword_skill

) is a 4s cooldown attack that hits for 16k!!!! it also buffs the damage and debuff, uterrly broken nerf!taken out of context eh ? am I wrong?

No, I only charge my mantras when I can guarantee the cast (which is fairly easy to do).

I did not stack 25 might/vulnerability in either video. The first one was around 12 stacks and I hit the light golem for 8k with the third chain.
It's plenty possible. After using f2 to strip boons and landing an f1 shatter, running at them with sword autos can easily kill someone because you'll be at 18 might, they'll have max vuln, and they won't have any boons. This is a very realistic/common scenario.

Sorry, you're incorrect again. Maul will not hit for 16k every 4 seconds even if you run full glass. In contrast, the third part of the sword auto attack chain can

consistently

deal between 5-8k damage every time it connects.

same way you dont use mantra every 10s to hea for 10kmault CAN hit for 16k and HAS 4s cooldown, broken, nerf.

Mantra of Recovery
can
consistently heal for up to 10k on a 10 second cooldown.
Maul
cannot
consistently hit for 16k on a 4 second cooldown.

It's not that hard to comprehend.

preety reliable to me, from stealth at that tooedit, some of those hits are 26k what the actual kitten lol.

I really hope you're just a huge memer and don't actually think you're right about anything you've said in this thread.

It looks reliable because it's a montage, Genius.

shadowpass.4236 · September 27, 2019

@Tayga.3192 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
It's plenty possible. After using f2 to strip boons and landing an f1 shatter,
running at them with sword autos
can easily kill someone because you'll be at 18 might, they'll have max vuln, and they won't have any boons. This is a very realistic/common scenario.

If for some reason they didn't die to mantra burst, you can't just walk to them and use sword autos.

I can. It's very easy to hold W and spam 1.

I will record some ranked matches this weekend of me using sword autos to burst people instead of gs.

shadowpass.4236 · September 27, 2019

@Crab Fear.1624 said:I was wondering if you are doing experiments Shadowpass?
Everytime you start a thread about something OP and keep it trucking for a bit, the little squirts pop up everywhere when before there was none.
If you are wondering if players will flock to whatever they believe to be the OP FOTM, let me save you the trouble....they will.
I was seeing hardly any mantra mes, and now like flies on the full trash can.

As @"apharma.3741" said..."If you and Shadowfall really think these builds are so grossly overtuned play them, spread the word, get people to represent them and they will get nerfs/changes."

So, thank him. I'm just doing what I was told. ¯\(ツ)/¯

Chaith.8256 · September 27, 2019

Mantra of Recovery:

Stated cooldown, 10s.
Effective time until you can start healing with it again, 13s.

It's so painful to see this war of factual semantics being waged.

shadowpass.4236 · September 27, 2019

@"Chaith.8256" said:Mantra of Recovery:
Stated cooldown, 10s.
Effective time until you can start healing with it again, 13s.
It's so painful to see this war of factual semantics being waged.

It's painful to see because every skill has cast times that affect the time it takes to cycle the ability.

For example, Healing Turret is on a 20 second cooldown after detonation but it has a 3/4 second cast time and takes another fraction of a second for the water field to spawn before you can blow it up. Has anyone ever said, "Oh it doesn't have a 20 second cooldown. You're lying because it actually takes 21.25 seconds before you can use it again."

No. No one (who makes sense) does that because it's redundant.

The cooldown of MoR is 10 seconds. The time it takes to cycle is something to keep in mind, but not very relevant in the grand scheme of things. In this specific scenario, the potential to heal up to 10k health without any additional healing power on a 13 second cooldown is still incredibly strong.

viquing.8254 · September 27, 2019

Can you find a vid of your immortal MoR build please ?

shadowpass.4236 · September 27, 2019

@viquing.8254 said:Can you find a vid of your immortal MoR build please ?

When did I ever say I had an immortal MoR build?

All I said was that the healing on the skill is very high for the cooldown and that it used to be meta for Mirage but is still perfectly viable.

If you want to see an unusable heal, take a look at a ranger's Healing Spring, a thief's Signet of Malice/Skelk Venom, etc. etc.

viquing.8254 · September 27, 2019

@shadowpass.4236 said:
@viquing.8254 said:Can you find a vid of your immortal MoR build please ?

When did I ever say I had an immortal MoR build?

All I said was that the healing on the skill is very high for the cooldown and that it used to be meta for Mirage but is still perfectly viable.

If you want to see an unusable heal, take a look at a ranger's Healing Spring, a thief's Signet of Malice/Skelk Venom, etc. etc.

So if it's very high and perfectly viable, it shouldn't be that hard to find a vid showing how it perform well no ?

shadowpass.4236 · September 27, 2019

@viquing.8254 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@viquing.8254 said:Can you find a vid of your immortal MoR build please ?

When did I ever say I had an immortal MoR build?

All I said was that the healing on the skill is very high for the cooldown and that it used to be meta for Mirage but is still perfectly viable.

If you want to see an unusable heal, take a look at a ranger's Healing Spring, a thief's Signet of Malice/Skelk Venom, etc. etc.

So if it's very high and perfectly viable, it shouldn't be that hard to find a vid showing how it perform well no ?

A skill's level of viability =/= how easy it is to find a video of it.

Instead, it depends on how many people make videos using the skill.

There's probably footage from around when Adventurer Runes gave a full dodge. However, YOU can look for it yourself if you're curious. Don't be lazy. Or, you can play around with it in-game to test it out.

viquing.8254 · September 27, 2019

@shadowpass.4236 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@viquing.8254 said:Can you find a vid of your immortal MoR build please ?

When did I ever say I had an immortal MoR build?

All I said was that the healing on the skill is very high for the cooldown and that it used to be meta for Mirage but is still perfectly viable.

If you want to see an unusable heal, take a look at a ranger's Healing Spring, a thief's Signet of Malice/Skelk Venom, etc. etc.

So if it's very high and perfectly viable, it shouldn't be that hard to find a vid showing how it perform well no ?

A skill's level of viability =/= how easy it is to find a video of it.

Instead, it depends on how many people make videos using the skill.

There's probably footage from around when Adventurer Runes gave a full dodge. However, YOU can look for it yourself if you're curious. Don't be lazy. Or, you can play around with it in-game to test it out.

:) .I already test it, and I never meet some decent mesmer using it, because the heal/clic is bad, the rechanneling need to be cover which isn't worth it.But continue dreaming about mesmer opness on each skill, even when nobody use it.

Leonidrex.5649 · September 27, 2019

@viquing.8254 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@viquing.8254 said:Can you find a vid of your immortal MoR build please ?

When did I ever say I had an immortal MoR build?

All I said was that the healing on the skill is very high for the cooldown and that it used to be meta for Mirage but is still perfectly viable.

If you want to see an unusable heal, take a look at a ranger's Healing Spring, a thief's Signet of Malice/Skelk Venom, etc. etc.

So if it's very high and perfectly viable, it shouldn't be that hard to find a vid showing how it perform well no ?

A skill's level of viability =/= how easy it is to find a video of it.

Instead, it depends on how many people make videos using the skill.

There's probably footage from around when Adventurer Runes gave a full dodge. However, YOU can look for it yourself if you're curious. Don't be lazy. Or, you can play around with it in-game to test it out.

:) .I already test it, and I never meet some decent mesmer using it, because the heal/clic is bad, the rechanneling need to be cover which isn't worth it.But continue dreaming about mesmer opness on each skill, even when nobody use it.

I like how he mention healing spring, which technically can heal for 28,226K on 24s cooldown, while having water field, while removing 12 conditions. all while being AoE.when you take things out of context you can REALLY make them sound good.thats all without healing power or boon duration.

shadowpass.4236 · September 27, 2019

@viquing.8254 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@viquing.8254 said:Can you find a vid of your immortal MoR build please ?

When did I ever say I had an immortal MoR build?

All I said was that the healing on the skill is very high for the cooldown and that it used to be meta for Mirage but is still perfectly viable.

If you want to see an unusable heal, take a look at a ranger's Healing Spring, a thief's Signet of Malice/Skelk Venom, etc. etc.

So if it's very high and perfectly viable, it shouldn't be that hard to find a vid showing how it perform well no ?

A skill's level of viability =/= how easy it is to find a video of it.

Instead, it depends on how many people make videos using the skill.

There's probably footage from around when Adventurer Runes gave a full dodge. However, YOU can look for it yourself if you're curious. Don't be lazy. Or, you can play around with it in-game to test it out.

:) .I already test it, and I never meet some decent mesmer using it, because the heal/clic is bad, the rechanneling need to be cover which isn't worth it.But continue dreaming about mesmer opness on each skill, even when nobody use it.

I'm going to record some ranked matches this weekend using skills like MoR and other "weak" skills mesmer has. I will upload a youtube video when it's done.

Crab Fear.1624 · September 27, 2019

@shadowpass.4236 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@viquing.8254 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@viquing.8254 said:Can you find a vid of your immortal MoR build please ?