Upcoming ele changes - October 2019

[Arkantos.7460]

is cellofrag even playing ?

[steki.1478]

@"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:First I was like "wow, -33% on singularity ", then in game -33% is not for the affinity/overload CD. Still stuck in 20sec CD after cast...It's a small buff to fresh air tempest, otherwise condi/support it's ... meh?!

Condi is also better because the new GM trait also affects condi damage. 20 sec cd is only affected by arcane spec.

Support builds used heal on aura anyway, they just received extra concentration.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

@steki.1478 said:

@"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:First I was like "wow, -33% on singularity ", then in game -33% is not for the affinity/overload CD. Still stuck in 20sec CD after cast...It's a small buff to fresh air tempest, otherwise condi/support it's ... meh?!

Condi is also better because the new GM trait also affects condi damage. 20 sec cd is only affected by arcane spec.

Support builds used heal on aura anyway, they just received extra concentration.

Of course, but in fact condi only won +7% dmg, otherwise the -33% is useless anyway.For support, I expected we could spam the water overload, but no.

[steki.1478]

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:First I was like "wow, -33% on singularity ", then in game -33% is not for the affinity/overload CD. Still stuck in 20sec CD after cast...It's a small buff to fresh air tempest, otherwise condi/support it's ... meh?!

Condi is also better because the new GM trait also affects condi damage. 20 sec cd is only affected by arcane spec.

Support builds used heal on aura anyway, they just received extra concentration.

Of course, but in fact condi only won +7% dmg, otherwise the -33% is useless anyway.For support, I expected we could spam the water overload, but no.

That would be rather broken considering that it targets 10 people. 7% damage and 2 less sec on waiting for overload is still a lot better than none of those.

[Jski.6180]

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:First I was like "wow, -33% on singularity ", then in game -33% is not for the affinity/overload CD. Still stuck in 20sec CD after cast...It's a small buff to fresh air tempest, otherwise condi/support it's ... meh?!

Condi is also better because the new GM trait also affects condi damage. 20 sec cd is only affected by arcane spec.

Support builds used heal on aura anyway, they just received extra concentration.

Of course, but in fact condi only won +7% dmg, otherwise the -33% is useless anyway.For support, I expected we could spam the water overload, but no.

That would be rather broken considering that it targets 10 people. 7% damage and 2 less sec on waiting for overload is still a lot better than none of those.

See scorge there a lot of double standard in this game.

It realty should be faster cast overlodes as well.

[steki.1478]

@Jski.6180 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:First I was like "wow, -33% on singularity ", then in game -33% is not for the affinity/overload CD. Still stuck in 20sec CD after cast...It's a small buff to fresh air tempest, otherwise condi/support it's ... meh?!

Condi is also better because the new GM trait also affects condi damage. 20 sec cd is only affected by arcane spec.

Support builds used heal on aura anyway, they just received extra concentration.

Of course, but in fact condi only won +7% dmg, otherwise the -33% is useless anyway.For support, I expected we could spam the water overload, but no.

That would be rather broken considering that it targets 10 people. 7% damage and 2 less sec on waiting for overload is still a lot better than none of those.

See scorge there a lot of double standard in this game.

It realty should be faster cast overlodes as well.

That should be added on the bottom adept trait IMO. Aura on overload should be baseline, but none of these are related to the current patch.

There's plenty of suggestion threads.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Arkantos.7460 said:is cellofrag even playing ?

The guy who Tells you how to make gold but really just tells you to buy stuff that he has listed on the tp already?

Who is at best just a average ele?

[Jski.6180]

@steki.1478 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:First I was like "wow, -33% on singularity ", then in game -33% is not for the affinity/overload CD. Still stuck in 20sec CD after cast...It's a small buff to fresh air tempest, otherwise condi/support it's ... meh?!

Condi is also better because the new GM trait also affects condi damage. 20 sec cd is only affected by arcane spec.

Support builds used heal on aura anyway, they just received extra concentration.

Of course, but in fact condi only won +7% dmg, otherwise the -33% is useless anyway.For support, I expected we could spam the water overload, but no.

That would be rather broken considering that it targets 10 people. 7% damage and 2 less sec on waiting for overload is still a lot better than none of those.

See scorge there a lot of double standard in this game.

It realty should be faster cast overlodes as well.

That should be added on the bottom adept trait IMO. Aura on overload should be baseline, but none of these are related to the current patch.

There's plenty of suggestion threads.

This is one of them and there good reason to point out what they do for one class vs other classes. Any way only water and earth overloads are 10 targets and all 100% melee only at least scorge has a chose or ranged and has all of its class effects at 10 target.

[steki.1478]

@Jski.6180 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:First I was like "wow, -33% on singularity ", then in game -33% is not for the affinity/overload CD. Still stuck in 20sec CD after cast...It's a small buff to fresh air tempest, otherwise condi/support it's ... meh?!

Condi is also better because the new GM trait also affects condi damage. 20 sec cd is only affected by arcane spec.

Support builds used heal on aura anyway, they just received extra concentration.

Of course, but in fact condi only won +7% dmg, otherwise the -33% is useless anyway.For support, I expected we could spam the water overload, but no.

That would be rather broken considering that it targets 10 people. 7% damage and 2 less sec on waiting for overload is still a lot better than none of those.

See scorge there a lot of double standard in this game.

It realty should be faster cast overlodes as well.

That should be added on the bottom adept trait IMO. Aura on overload should be baseline, but none of these are related to the current patch.

There's plenty of suggestion threads.

This is one of them and there good reason to point out what they do for one class vs other classes. Any way only water and earth overloads are 10 targets and all 100% melee only at least scorge has a chose or ranged and has all of its class effects at 10 target.

No, this is a patch discussion thread. Scourge requires trait to have 10 man shades. It's also a different class mechanic with different tradeoffs.

[Jski.6180]

@steki.1478 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:First I was like "wow, -33% on singularity ", then in game -33% is not for the affinity/overload CD. Still stuck in 20sec CD after cast...It's a small buff to fresh air tempest, otherwise condi/support it's ... meh?!

Condi is also better because the new GM trait also affects condi damage. 20 sec cd is only affected by arcane spec.

Support builds used heal on aura anyway, they just received extra concentration.

Of course, but in fact condi only won +7% dmg, otherwise the -33% is useless anyway.For support, I expected we could spam the water overload, but no.

That would be rather broken considering that it targets 10 people. 7% damage and 2 less sec on waiting for overload is still a lot better than none of those.

See scorge there a lot of double standard in this game.

It realty should be faster cast overlodes as well.

That should be added on the bottom adept trait IMO. Aura on overload should be baseline, but none of these are related to the current patch.

There's plenty of suggestion threads.

This is one of them and there good reason to point out what they do for one class vs other classes. Any way only water and earth overloads are 10 targets and all 100% melee only at least scorge has a chose or ranged and has all of its class effects at 10 target.

No, this is a patch discussion thread. Scourge requires trait to have 10 man shades. It's also a different class mechanic with different tradeoffs.

Its less of a tradeoff you mean by different. This is the place to talk about this last update and that IS about the class balance. Tempest did not get much you could even say it lose because of this update. Ppl are reading the math it self and finding out that it was not even a full 33% reduction. Anet realy should of added more to a GM then what most classes get passively now.

[Aria Lliane.8693]

So I got a chance to test this today :)

First i wanted to mention this in the release notes:

@"Stephane Lo Presti.7258" said:Imbued Melodies is being removed—we felt it wasn't very interesting while also being unnecessarily restrictive by being tied to the warhorn.

I laughed while reading that, almost felt like she was talking about us here. Trying to justify something.

So, Imbued Melodies is gone, my build lost 180 concentration and i had one less aura, so i felt the need to move to Elemental Bastion, less protection, more heal. And with "Heal on Aura apply" i also needed more auras.And therefore in that regard i went into a full heal build. Let me state that Elemental Bastion does not heal 1200 hp like i previously said, that was pve armor stats talking, in PVP is maxed at 1100 hp.I went fully heal, Rune of the Monk + Mender Amulet. Resulting in 1225 Healing Power.And to max the "Heal on Aura apply" from the Elemental Bastion, and maxing out the Aura potential, i went with the following Traits:

Allowing me to share with all the party the Auras generated on successful Overload + Healing from the Trait + Protection (whatever is left of it) + Regen.

Also to achieve the max number of Auras in my skills I went with Dagger / Dagger for the Frost Aura in water + Shocking Aura in Air.All this resulted in "some" amount of healing:

I am definitely no longer a "protector" monk:Small protection duration is really small now, previously I had Max Concentration + Boon duration Rune. Now I am definitely an healer.

But like i said, PVP has High Damage.Dead Eyes are quite annoying:

And there are way too many OP skills:

But Tempests just have to git gud, unlike OP classes.So conclusion, ill stay off gw for a bit. Healing was pretty mediocre and I felt like a punching bag.When i was a protector mitigating 40% of damage was amazing (40% of a 8k hit is like 3K), reflecting arrow/shots, etc.

Since I'm sharing my findings about the new "unbalance" patch, I'd like to say that the bug from 2012 where when you use "vapor form" (elementalist downed skill) is still bugged (the "death report" is cleared) not showing what killed you:But like i said, its been like that since 2012, so why do I even care.

This was possible before the current patch (pre-1-Oct-2019 patch) with a Support Tempest:

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@Aria Lliane.8693 said:So I got a chance to test this today :)

First i wanted to mention this in the release notes:

@"Stephane Lo Presti.7258" said:Imbued Melodies is being removed—we felt it wasn't very interesting while also being unnecessarily restrictive by being tied to the warhorn.

I laughed while reading that, almost felt like she was talking about us here. Trying to justify something.

So, Imbued Melodies is gone, my build lost 180 concentration and i had one less aura, so i felt the need to move to Elemental Bastion, less protection, more heal. And with "Heal on Aura apply" i also needed more auras.And therefore in that regard i went into a

full heal build

. Let me state that Elemental Bastion does not heal 1200 hp like i previously said, that was pve armor stats talking, in PVP is maxed at 1100 hp.I went fully heal, Rune of the Monk + Mender Amulet. Resulting in 1225 Healing Power.And to max the "Heal on Aura apply" from the Elemental Bastion, and maxing out the Aura potential, i went with the following Traits:

Allowing me to share with all the party the Auras generated on successful Overload + Healing from the Trait + Protection (whatever is left of it) + Regen.

Also to achieve the max number of Auras in my skills I went with Dagger / Dagger for the Frost Aura in water + Shocking Aura in Air.All this resulted in "some" amount of healing:

I am definitely no longer a "protector" monk:

Small protection duration is really small now, previously I had Max Concentration + Boon duration Rune. Now I am definitely an healer.

But like i said, PVP has High Damage.Dead Eyes are quite annoying:

And there are way too many OP skills:

But Tempests just have to git gud, unlike OP classes.So conclusion, ill stay off gw for a bit. Healing was pretty mediocre and I felt like a punching bag.When i was a protector mitigating 40% of damage was amazing (40% of a 8k hit is like 3K), reflecting arrow/shots, etc.

Since I'm sharing my findings about the new "unbalance" patch, I'd like to say that the bug from 2012 where when you use "vapor form" (elementalist downed skill) is still bugged (the "death report" is cleared) not showing what killed you:

But like i said, its been like that since 2012, so why do I even care.

This was possible before the current patch (

pre-1-Oct-2019 patch

) with a Support Tempest:

You can’t really be full heal ele in spvp. It’s not like WvW where you can have nearly double the healing mods, double the healing power, and double the amount of allies you can heal.

So ya for you also shouldn’t be running full shouts either. Tbh it’s your build here that’s not optimized for the game mode.

You need magnet shield, mist form, and prob teleport cantrap. You’d also need to lose earth and go arcane so you can run staff for double geyser Rez, which is where you’ll really shine as a support in spvp. You can also opt to go air instead to spam air overloads. All you need is intelligence sigil so that when you use air overload it’s instantly off cd no matter what u do. That way you can provide more lightning auras for allies.

Anyway ya pure heal ele is best in WvW where you can actually attain the stats to accomplish it. Spvp small scale it just doesn’t scale well enough, you need to go support hybrid.

[Jski.6180]

@Aria Lliane.8693 Nothing your using effects any thing from the update for spvp out side say swiftness on overloads your simply just doing with out.

That the problem the new GM even the "new" Master traits are not getting used in real game play for the roll of tempest. Its a couple miss understanding what anet thinks ppl wants from the ele class. Your better off running Aura heals and running bigger shouts or reg auras. Its a couple down grad of effects AND an over all nerf of boons for the tempest class.

[Resonance.4216]

@steki.1478 said:

@Axl.8924 said:EWW the loss of magnetic aura is huge since its useful for fractals when you got ballasts everywhere.

You have FB in every party though and it's loaded with reflects.

So why even run Ele?

[Axl.8924]

@Resonance.4216 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Axl.8924 said:EWW the loss of magnetic aura is huge since its useful for fractals when you got ballasts everywhere.

You have FB in every party though and it's loaded with reflects.

So why even run Ele?

Well eles are good healers and they can have some dps while healing and they got good domination on some buffs, with stuff like protection magnetic shield regen and all sorts of other goodies.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:First I was like "wow, -33% on singularity ", then in game -33% is not for the affinity/overload CD. Still stuck in 20sec CD after cast...It's a small buff to fresh air tempest, otherwise condi/support it's ... meh?!

Condi is also better because the new GM trait also affects condi damage. 20 sec cd is only affected by arcane spec.

Support builds used heal on aura anyway, they just received extra concentration.

Of course, but in fact condi only won +7% dmg, otherwise the -33% is useless anyway.For support, I expected we could spam the water overload, but no.

That would be rather broken considering that it targets 10 people. 7% damage and 2 less sec on waiting for overload is still a lot better than none of those.

It wouldn't because warrior has much more condi clean now also it would be 33% on 15 s = 10 sec for dps builds this is maybe broken someone need to test it.

[steki.1478]

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:First I was like "wow, -33% on singularity ", then in game -33% is not for the affinity/overload CD. Still stuck in 20sec CD after cast...It's a small buff to fresh air tempest, otherwise condi/support it's ... meh?!

Condi is also better because the new GM trait also affects condi damage. 20 sec cd is only affected by arcane spec.

Support builds used heal on aura anyway, they just received extra concentration.

Of course, but in fact condi only won +7% dmg, otherwise the -33% is useless anyway.For support, I expected we could spam the water overload, but no.

That would be rather broken considering that it targets 10 people. 7% damage and 2 less sec on waiting for overload is still a lot better than none of those.

It wouldn't because warrior has much more condi clean now also it would be 33% on 15 s = 10 sec for dps builds this is maybe broken someone need to test it.

You're saying that like ele's only purpose is condi cleanse. Where's warrs 10 man ranged CC or 1200 range on support? Every class has its niche.

[Jski.6180]

@steki.1478 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:First I was like "wow, -33% on singularity ", then in game -33% is not for the affinity/overload CD. Still stuck in 20sec CD after cast...It's a small buff to fresh air tempest, otherwise condi/support it's ... meh?!

Condi is also better because the new GM trait also affects condi damage. 20 sec cd is only affected by arcane spec.

Support builds used heal on aura anyway, they just received extra concentration.

Of course, but in fact condi only won +7% dmg, otherwise the -33% is useless anyway.For support, I expected we could spam the water overload, but no.

That would be rather broken considering that it targets 10 people. 7% damage and 2 less sec on waiting for overload is still a lot better than none of those.

It wouldn't because warrior has much more condi clean now also it would be 33% on 15 s = 10 sec for dps builds this is maybe broken someone need to test it.

You're saying that like ele's only purpose is condi cleanse. Where's warrs 10 man ranged CC or 1200 range on support? Every class has its niche.

That not true every class in this game was made to fill all the rolls in the game. More or less what your suggestion is a means of trying to justified why ele lacks just soo much in the game. You realy can go on for a good bit just how much the ele class lacks vs other classes in this game.

So yes the only thing ele had going for it was its clearing ability and anet just nerfed it hard from this update. Scraper still has condi conversation and still a very strong clear game with powerful boons (all of them all be it a bit harder to pull off for some of the condi base ones).

There is nothing ele as a class can pull off that is ele class only. Long ranged cc vs 10 targets is not any means of justification of lowest hp lowest armor and a couple lack of powerful boons both support and self.

The ele class keeps getting nerfed with only small buff to make it seem like anet is doing any thing of worth for the ele class. When anet adds in real support stab real powerful boons for the ele it self boon strip of any type and realty condi dmg out side of the 2 condi that ele can do we can say anet is buffing the class. Till then you can wright books on how not to balance a pvp video game even pve video game base off of anet choose.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

@steki.1478 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:First I was like "wow, -33% on singularity ", then in game -33% is not for the affinity/overload CD. Still stuck in 20sec CD after cast...It's a small buff to fresh air tempest, otherwise condi/support it's ... meh?!

Condi is also better because the new GM trait also affects condi damage. 20 sec cd is only affected by arcane spec.

Support builds used heal on aura anyway, they just received extra concentration.

Of course, but in fact condi only won +7% dmg, otherwise the -33% is useless anyway.For support, I expected we could spam the water overload, but no.

That would be rather broken considering that it targets 10 people. 7% damage and 2 less sec on waiting for overload is still a lot better than none of those.

It wouldn't because warrior has much more condi clean now also it would be 33% on 15 s = 10 sec for dps builds this is maybe broken someone need to test it.

You're saying that like ele's only purpose is condi cleanse. Where's warrs 10 man ranged CC or 1200 range on support? Every class has its niche.

While I know some people who thought this its the opposite heal and boons + cc + aura are also important. Heal Tempest has a lot of cc in wvw . I can't even tell what parts of water overload getting to 10 and which to 5 because they made it so confusing.

[steki.1478]

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:First I was like "wow, -33% on singularity ", then in game -33% is not for the affinity/overload CD. Still stuck in 20sec CD after cast...It's a small buff to fresh air tempest, otherwise condi/support it's ... meh?!

Condi is also better because the new GM trait also affects condi damage. 20 sec cd is only affected by arcane spec.

Support builds used heal on aura anyway, they just received extra concentration.

Of course, but in fact condi only won +7% dmg, otherwise the -33% is useless anyway.For support, I expected we could spam the water overload, but no.

That would be rather broken considering that it targets 10 people. 7% damage and 2 less sec on waiting for overload is still a lot better than none of those.

It wouldn't because warrior has much more condi clean now also it would be 33% on 15 s = 10 sec for dps builds this is maybe broken someone need to test it.

You're saying that like ele's only purpose is condi cleanse. Where's warrs 10 man ranged CC or 1200 range on support? Every class has its niche.

While I know some people who thought this its the opposite heal and boons + cc + aura are also important. Heal Tempest has a lot of cc in wvw . I can't even tell what parts of wate roverlaod getting to 10 and which to 5 because they made it so confusing.

All of it is 10 man.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@steki.1478 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:First I was like "wow, -33% on singularity ", then in game -33% is not for the affinity/overload CD. Still stuck in 20sec CD after cast...It's a small buff to fresh air tempest, otherwise condi/support it's ... meh?!

Condi is also better because the new GM trait also affects condi damage. 20 sec cd is only affected by arcane spec.

Support builds used heal on aura anyway, they just received extra concentration.

Of course, but in fact condi only won +7% dmg, otherwise the -33% is useless anyway.For support, I expected we could spam the water overload, but no.

That would be rather broken considering that it targets 10 people. 7% damage and 2 less sec on waiting for overload is still a lot better than none of those.

It wouldn't because warrior has much more condi clean now also it would be 33% on 15 s = 10 sec for dps builds this is maybe broken someone need to test it.

You're saying that like ele's only purpose is condi cleanse. Where's warrs 10 man ranged CC or 1200 range on support? Every class has its niche.

While I know some people who thought this its the opposite heal and boons + cc + aura are also important. Heal Tempest has a lot of cc in wvw . I can't even tell what parts of wate roverlaod getting to 10 and which to 5 because they made it so confusing.

All of it is 10 man.

Water overload is 10 targets, but some additional effects are either 5 or 6. Powerful auras triggered by OW is 6 targets, and then other things like healing ripple apply only to 5 when using OW.

Just wanted to clear that up.

And ya @Lord of the Fire.6870 it’s true that warrior now has the same if not more condition cleanse than tempest. But realistically condi cleanse war isnt going to be meta by a long shot. There are reasons why but mainly it’s because the current warrior meta is still better.

Aside from these things, Overload earth is also one of the best Cc’s on tempest, can inflict over 200 conditions with a single use and 40 seconds of immobilize, as it also effects 10 targets...with or without a niche, I can see why the ability to spam overloads would approach dangerous balance levels if the cool down were reduced even further, no matter how much I would like the cooldowns to be reduced.

[Razor.6392]

Scepter weaver skills remain bugged lmao

[supreme.3602]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:First I was like "wow, -33% on singularity ", then in game -33% is not for the affinity/overload CD. Still stuck in 20sec CD after cast...It's a small buff to fresh air tempest, otherwise condi/support it's ... meh?!

Condi is also better because the new GM trait also affects condi damage. 20 sec cd is only affected by arcane spec.

Support builds used heal on aura anyway, they just received extra concentration.

Of course, but in fact condi only won +7% dmg, otherwise the -33% is useless anyway.For support, I expected we could spam the water overload, but no.

That would be rather broken considering that it targets 10 people. 7% damage and 2 less sec on waiting for overload is still a lot better than none of those.

It wouldn't because warrior has much more condi clean now also it would be 33% on 15 s = 10 sec for dps builds this is maybe broken someone need to test it.

You're saying that like ele's only purpose is condi cleanse. Where's warrs 10 man ranged CC or 1200 range on support? Every class has its niche.

While I know some people who thought this its the opposite heal and boons + cc + aura are also important. Heal Tempest has a lot of cc in wvw . I can't even tell what parts of wate roverlaod getting to 10 and which to 5 because they made it so confusing.

All of it is 10 man.

Water overload is 10 targets, but some additional effects are either 5 or 6. Powerful auras triggered by OW is 6 targets, and then other things like healing ripple apply only to 5 when using OW.

Just wanted to clear that up.

And ya @Lord of the Fire.6870 it’s true that warrior now has the same if not more condition cleanse than tempest. But realistically condi cleanse war isnt going to be meta by a long shot. There are reasons why but mainly it’s because the current warrior meta is still better.

Aside from these things, Overload earth is also one of the best Cc’s on tempest, can inflict over 200 conditions with a single use and 40 seconds of immobilize, as it also effects 10 targets...with or without a niche, I can see why the ability to spam overloads would approach dangerous balance levels if the cool down were reduced even further, no matter how much I would like the cooldowns to be reduced.

Tempests can out-cleanse a support warrior with ease.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:First I was like "wow, -33% on singularity ", then in game -33% is not for the affinity/overload CD. Still stuck in 20sec CD after cast...It's a small buff to fresh air tempest, otherwise condi/support it's ... meh?!

Condi is also better because the new GM trait also affects condi damage. 20 sec cd is only affected by arcane spec.

Support builds used heal on aura anyway, they just received extra concentration.

Of course, but in fact condi only won +7% dmg, otherwise the -33% is useless anyway.For support, I expected we could spam the water overload, but no.

That would be rather broken considering that it targets 10 people. 7% damage and 2 less sec on waiting for overload is still a lot better than none of those.

It wouldn't because warrior has much more condi clean now also it would be 33% on 15 s = 10 sec for dps builds this is maybe broken someone need to test it.

You're saying that like ele's only purpose is condi cleanse. Where's warrs 10 man ranged CC or 1200 range on support? Every class has its niche.

While I know some people who thought this its the opposite heal and boons + cc + aura are also important. Heal Tempest has a lot of cc in wvw . I can't even tell what parts of wate roverlaod getting to 10 and which to 5 because they made it so confusing.

All of it is 10 man.

Water overload is 10 targets, but some additional effects are either 5 or 6. Powerful auras triggered by OW is 6 targets, and then other things like healing ripple apply only to 5 when using OW.

Just wanted to clear that up.

And ya @Lord of the Fire.6870 it’s true that warrior now has the same if not more condition cleanse than tempest. But realistically condi cleanse war isnt going to be meta by a long shot. There are reasons why but mainly it’s because the current warrior meta is still better.

Aside from these things, Overload earth is also one of the best Cc’s on tempest, can inflict over 200 conditions with a single use and 40 seconds of immobilize, as it also effects 10 targets...with or without a niche, I can see why the ability to spam overloads would approach dangerous balance levels if the cool down were reduced even further, no matter how much I would like the cooldowns to be reduced.

Tempests can out-cleanse a support warrior with ease.

I hate to burst your bubble but this is not exactly true...

I did some back of the envelop calculations, and fundamentally, Tactics warrior cleanses quiete a bit more than the meta-battle Ele.

If the Ele is FULLY specked into cleansing, then tempest can actually compete with warrior on an equal level, and in most cases probably beats warrior if used to it's fullest extent by a somewhat small margin. Out cleansing with ease though? I doubt it.

If you are actually curious about the math here it is:

Elementalist

Meta Battle+40 / 17CD = Overload Water+10 / 20CD = Wash the Pain Away

Metabattle Ele :423+90 = 513 cleanses per 3 minutes

Fully Traited Cleanse Ele+56 / 20CD = Overload Water+5 / 20CD = Wash the Pain Away+20 / 25CD = Flash Freeze+10 / 35CD = Aftershock+10 / 75CD = Rebound+10 / 25CD = Feel the Burn

Cleanse Ele :504+45+175+50+20+70 = 864 per 3 minutes

Warrior+5 / 20CD = Shake it off (Trait)+30 / 40CD = Shake it off (Skill)+30 / 15CD = Charge+30 / 20CD = Call of Valor

Tactics War :45+135+360+270 = 810 per 3 minutes

These Rough Estimates only include abilities that you can quantify, and exclude unquantifiable cleanses, such as Transmuting aura's, Stop Drop and Roll, and the majority of Aura's one can apply when using Powerful Aura, as well as Resistance uptime from Call of Valor. If you are wondering about why it's unquantifiable, it's because i was too lazy to do the calculations for each potential time period for each individual aura cleanse. one can assume that if you were to use all your aura's available to you constantly on rotation, then the cleanse Ele wins out by +6 in cleanses, with additional +12's in transmutes per aura per cooldown. Since this is pretty hard to calculate on a per cooldown basis, you just have to go and do that calculation on your own, under the assumption that you will indeed be able to use all aura's available to you, and also assuming said aura's have associated transmutes with the weapon being used, which varies from build to build.

Also to note, these calculations ignore runes, sigil procs or any other effects that aren't inherent to the class.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:First I was like "wow, -33% on singularity ", then in game -33% is not for the affinity/overload CD. Still stuck in 20sec CD after cast...It's a small buff to fresh air tempest, otherwise condi/support it's ... meh?!

Condi is also better because the new GM trait also affects condi damage. 20 sec cd is only affected by arcane spec.

Support builds used heal on aura anyway, they just received extra concentration.

Of course, but in fact condi only won +7% dmg, otherwise the -33% is useless anyway.For support, I expected we could spam the water overload, but no.

That would be rather broken considering that it targets 10 people. 7% damage and 2 less sec on waiting for overload is still a lot better than none of those.

It wouldn't because warrior has much more condi clean now also it would be 33% on 15 s = 10 sec for dps builds this is maybe broken someone need to test it.

You're saying that like ele's only purpose is condi cleanse. Where's warrs 10 man ranged CC or 1200 range on support? Every class has its niche.

While I know some people who thought this its the opposite heal and boons + cc + aura are also important. Heal Tempest has a lot of cc in wvw . I can't even tell what parts of wate roverlaod getting to 10 and which to 5 because they made it so confusing.

All of it is 10 man.

Water overload is 10 targets, but some additional effects are either 5 or 6. Powerful auras triggered by OW is 6 targets, and then other things like healing ripple apply only to 5 when using OW.

Just wanted to clear that up.

And ya @Lord of the Fire.6870 it’s true that warrior now has the same if not more condition cleanse than tempest. But realistically condi cleanse war isnt going to be meta by a long shot. There are reasons why but mainly it’s because the current warrior meta is still better.

Aside from these things, Overload earth is also one of the best Cc’s on tempest, can inflict over 200 conditions with a single use and 40 seconds of immobilize, as it also effects 10 targets...with or without a niche, I can see why the ability to spam overloads would approach dangerous balance levels if the cool down were reduced even further, no matter how much I would like the cooldowns to be reduced.

Tempests can out-cleanse a support warrior with ease.

I hate to burst your bubble but this is not exactly true...

I did some back of the envelop calculations, and fundamentally, Tactics warrior cleanses quiete a bit more than the meta-battle Ele.

If the Ele is FULLY specked into cleansing, then tempest can actually compete with warrior on an equal level, and in most cases probably beats warrior if used to it's fullest extent by a somewhat small margin. Out cleansing with ease though? I doubt it.

If you are actually curious about the math here it is:

Elementalist

Meta Battle+40 / 17CD = Overload Water+10 / 20CD = Wash the Pain Away

Metabattle Ele :423+90 = 513 cleanses per 3 minutes

Fully Traited Cleanse Ele+56 / 20CD = Overload Water+5 / 20CD = Wash the Pain Away+20 / 25CD = Flash Freeze+10 / 35CD = Aftershock+10 / 75CD = Rebound+10 / 25CD = Feel the Burn

Cleanse Ele :504+45+175+50+20+70 = 864 per 3 minutes

Warrior+5 / 20CD = Shake it off (Trait)+30 / 40CD = Shake it off (Skill)+30 / 15CD = Charge+30 / 20CD = Call of Valor

Tactics War :45+135+360+270 = 810 per 3 minutes

These Rough Estimates only include abilities that you can quantify, and exclude unquantifiable cleanses, such as Transmuting aura's, Stop Drop and Roll, and the majority of Aura's one can apply when using Powerful Aura, as well as Resistance uptime from Call of Valor. If you are wondering about why it's unquantifiable, it's because i was too lazy to do the calculations for each potential time period for each individual aura cleanse. one can assume that if you were to use all your aura's available to you constantly on rotation, then the cleanse Ele wins out by +6 in cleanses, with additional +12's in transmutes per aura per cooldown. Since this is pretty hard to calculate on a per cooldown basis, you just have to go and do that calculation on your own, under the assumption that you will indeed be able to use all aura's available to you, and also assuming said aura's have associated transmutes with the weapon being used, which varies from build to build.

Also to note, these calculations ignore runes, sigil procs or any other effects that aren't inherent to the class.

Most shouts from ele doesn't clean condis... regeneration from staff doing it with trait and 'Wash the Pain Away' does it.