Swagger.1459 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 1,000 players exchange gold to get 8,000 gems = $0 to Anet.1 player buying 8,000 gems with money = +$100 to Anet. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 @Calistin.6210 said:If you really think the exchange does not help support the game and that people selling gold on it bring no support and 0$ to Anet, I challenge you to go ahead and try and get them to remove the exchange from the game.Go on make a petition and get people support you purely on your argument that it brings 0$ to Anet.Theres something wrong with this theoryGW1 didnt have a gold/gem transction and ppl bought them real money.Rest of the ppl that couldnt afford them , they skipped it( i am with you for not removing the gemstore-i want some free loots , and i need to collect 9k euros to tidy up my future :P)(when i said ''sniff -no'' , i meant i get rejected from a lot of women , i am a ungly pirate-leg swan , miss mod) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 1,000,000 players exchange gold to get 8,000 gems each = $0 to Anet’s bank account. 1,000 players purchase 8,000 gems with money = +$100,000 to Anet’s bank account.Those players who exchange gold for gems are NOT contributing a penny to the game. Yet those that think they are probably have a huge and expensive list of wants from the devs to create, but they add $0 dollars to the financials. In one post we can find “We want an xpac now!“, “rework x,y,z!”, “we need more armors!”.... followed by posts like “why you gotta put all these convenience items and skins on the gemstore!” that nobody needs to play or progress in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 @Swagger.1459 said:1,000,000 players exchange gold to get 8,000 gems each = $0 to Anet’s bank account. 1,000 players purchase 8,000 gems with money = +$100,000 to Anet’s bank account.Those players who exchange gold for gems are NOT contributing a penny to the game. Yet those that think they are probably have a huge and expensive list of wants from the devs to create, but they add $0 dollars to the financials.One guy wanted gold the other got payed to grind it, so the one that grinded got paid for his work and the other guy got the gold that he wanted. One way or the other Arenanet got paid for the gems instead of the the 3rd party that sells gold for real mulla. These 1000 players wouldn't have bought the gems if they didn't want gold, and if anet gave gold directly we would have inflation and pay to win, and we don't want that do we?Make your own thread about how you don't like people farming gold and the people buying it.Now stop derailing the thread by making people explaining simple stuff to you. There are at least 2 pages of pointless explanations about how monetization works in the game.The question is why does the some aspects of the gameplay have been slowly pushed to resemble a mobile game, while the design has worked differently before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 @"Vancho.8750" Sorry, but you complained about “ things got little bit more pushy with the "Macro" transactions”, so I’m talking about transactions here and how the game is funded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 @Vancho.8750 said:The question is why does the some aspects of the gameplay have been slowly pushed to resemble a mobile game, while the design has worked differently before? Vancho plzWe know each other , when ''ppl'' whined that the price of HoT (60 dollars) was overpriced .We cant simply flip flop our ideas every few years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 @Swagger.1459 said:@"Vancho.8750" Sorry, but you complained about “ things got little bit more pushy with the "Macro" transactions”, so I’m talking about transactions here and how the game is funded.Make another thread about it. I complained because it affects the gameplay in some manner, parts of the game that are fun are left in the background while those that make the most are pushed hard and at the same time they also suffer from rushed development, since the whole fiasco with skeleton crew and the lay offs.You want to talk only about a small part of what i asked, not the main subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexxxDelta.1806 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 @Swagger.1459 said:@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210 Since you like “ discussion and facts”, here are some facts for you...Anet earns money off game sales.Anet earns money when someone buys gems with money. Anet doesn’t earn money when someone exchanges their gold to gems.Nothing on the gemstore is required to play or progress in the game. You can get anything off the gemstore for $0 dollars by exchanging gold to gems.Your future arguments should take those facts in mind. Here' a fact you keep leaving out.When someone buys gems expressly to buy gold off of the exchange Anet earns money.Your argument should take this in mind as we have been saying from the start the exchange makes Anet money as it helps fuel gems sales. No one ever said people just farm gold to help anet, no one said people by gems only to sell on the exchange and no one said the primary reason people do these things it to be "helpful" or support anet, it still doesn't change the fact that this helps fuel gem sales and thus help Anet make profit.If the people buying gold off the exchange could not do so then they would not buy the gems they do, when buying them to purchase gold obviously, and Anet would lose out on those sales and the gold buyers would have to grind their gold like everyone else in game.Umm no kidding when someone buys gems with money Anet makes money. That was established In my post buddy... Or did you miss this part... “ Anet earns money when someone buys gems with money.“And yet again, if you just exchanged gold for gems Anet makes $0 off your transaction... You should know this after all these posts. Or are you still under the assumption that your, personal, gold to gem transaction magically adds money to Anets account? Uh buddy I never said otherwise what I said was people buying gems off the exchange support the game by helping gem sales, you are the one that keeps ignoring the rest of the sentence or argument we have been making to make it appear like peeps that buy gems via gold are freeloaders.You are the one that keeps saying it some kind of mystical mumbo jumbo that this encourage people to buy gems for $$$.Yay! I’m glad that you accept the fact that someone exchanging their gold for gems isn’t funding the game. Player A farms gold.Player A offers gold for gems in the exchange.Player B doesn't want to farm gold but has cash.Player B buys gems with cash and uses them to get gold in the exchange.The gold Player A was offering.Player B wouldn't have spent cash if Player A didn't have gold to offer.Thus Player A enabled Player B's RL cash spending which could be used to fund the game.It's not quantum mechanics...Player A doesn’t spend a dime supporting the game. If everybody was like Player B, nobody would be spending "a dime" on the gold-less exchange. Unless they became a seller themselves and created gold out of thin air, Anet would be earning exactly 0(zero) $ from it. As things are now, they owe the fact they do profit from the exchange to Player A.Again, it's not quantum mechanics. At least to most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 @Swagger.1459 said:Umm no kidding when someone buys gems with money Anet makes money. That was established In my post buddy... Or did you miss this part... “ Anet earns money when someone buys gems with money.“And yet again, if you just exchanged gold for gems Anet makes $0 off your transaction... You should know this after all these posts. Or are you still under the assumption that your, personal, gold to gem transaction magically adds money to Anets account?Yes. They earn $0 from this specific transaction (although it's not really that simple - see below). What you keep omitting is that they earn a ton of money from the fact that people do make those transactions. If you specifically didn't buy gems with gold, Anet would not be visibly impacted (or, at least not at the level that could be estimated, because there might be possibly an impact), but if noone would buy gems with gold, Anet would lose a ton of money.Notice, like i said, that there might be an impact even for your single transaction. Depending on how much did you buy, the gold for gems price mght shift just enough that one more person would decide to buy gems for cash in order to exchange them for gold - and the amount of money they decide to spend on gems is the amount of gold anet earns from the fact that you, specifically, decided to exchange gold for gems. So, in the end, the amount of actual $$ Anet earned from you buying gems for gold is impossible to estimate, but it's not zero.@Swagger.1459 said:Player A doesn’t spend a dime supporting the game.Yes. Player A doesn;t spend a dime, they spend time. Doesn't mean Anet doesn't earn a dime from that person supporting the game though - because they do. And since Anet earned something, then player A definitely did support the game. Even if that wasn't his intention.@Swagger.1459 said:1,000 players exchange gold to get 8,000 gems = $0 to Anet.1 player buying 8,000 gems with money = +$100 to Anet. Simple.0 players exchanging gold for gems - $0 to Anet.0 players buying gems in order to exchange for gold (0, because there is no gold to buy) = 0$ to Anet.Without the first group, the second group doesn't exist. You won't have anyone buying gold for gems without someone else farming that gold.Also simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210 Since you like “ discussion and facts”, here are some facts for you...Anet earns money off game sales.Anet earns money when someone buys gems with money. Anet doesn’t earn money when someone exchanges their gold to gems.Nothing on the gemstore is required to play or progress in the game. You can get anything off the gemstore for $0 dollars by exchanging gold to gems.Your future arguments should take those facts in mind. Here' a fact you keep leaving out.When someone buys gems expressly to buy gold off of the exchange Anet earns money.Your argument should take this in mind as we have been saying from the start the exchange makes Anet money as it helps fuel gems sales. No one ever said people just farm gold to help anet, no one said people by gems only to sell on the exchange and no one said the primary reason people do these things it to be "helpful" or support anet, it still doesn't change the fact that this helps fuel gem sales and thus help Anet make profit.If the people buying gold off the exchange could not do so then they would not buy the gems they do, when buying them to purchase gold obviously, and Anet would lose out on those sales and the gold buyers would have to grind their gold like everyone else in game.Umm no kidding when someone buys gems with money Anet makes money. That was established In my post buddy... Or did you miss this part... “ Anet earns money when someone buys gems with money.“And yet again, if you just exchanged gold for gems Anet makes $0 off your transaction... You should know this after all these posts. Or are you still under the assumption that your, personal, gold to gem transaction magically adds money to Anets account? Uh buddy I never said otherwise what I said was people buying gems off the exchange support the game by helping gem sales, you are the one that keeps ignoring the rest of the sentence or argument we have been making to make it appear like peeps that buy gems via gold are freeloaders.You are the one that keeps saying it some kind of mystical mumbo jumbo that this encourage people to buy gems for $$$.Yay! I’m glad that you accept the fact that someone exchanging their gold for gems isn’t funding the game. Player A farms gold.Player A offers gold for gems in the exchange.Player B doesn't want to farm gold but has cash.Player B buys gems with cash and uses them to get gold in the exchange.The gold Player A was offering.Player B wouldn't have spent cash if Player A didn't have gold to offer.Thus Player A enabled Player B's RL cash spending which could be used to fund the game.It's not quantum mechanics...Player A doesn’t spend a dime supporting the game. If everybody was like Player B, nobody would be spending "a dime" on the gold-less exchange. Unless they became a seller themselves and created gold out of thin air, Anet would be earning exactly 0(zero) $ from it. As things are now, they owe the fact they do profit from the exchange to Player A.Again, it's not quantum mechanics. At least to most.Ppl buy a Digital Costume with their hard earned gold .They dont aim to help the company or their masters .Otherwise what ? PPl that play 2-3 hours and waste their gold for potions and other things to the NPCs , are the ones to blame for the lack of money ?If the gems that are already incerted into the system are from 2-3 months ago , then the same can apply to Gold and are circulated all over again.If gems are unlimited (ppl can withdraw all kind of amounts) , then the same can apply to gold .If we see the increased prices of gold/gem ratio there we see in surplus of inc gold , it means ppl are not transforming gem>gold , but instead gem>buy Costumes directly without transforming into gold .Which means that ppl farming gold > are hurting the other ppl that try to farm gold (forcing them to farm more) >repeat circleIn that way you dont help the company , but make the life missarable for the other 89%Its different thing to gives the ability to those who dont have money to have access to a service , and dont get dissqualified (fairness) and later on to inv more friends . (ak.a removing the blant GW1 model)Yeah its not nuclear physics , but stepping back and asking yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 @Astralporing.1957 said:@Swagger.1459 said:Umm no kidding when someone buys gems with money Anet makes money. That was established In my post buddy... Or did you miss this part... “ Anet earns money when someone buys gems with money.“And yet again, if you just exchanged gold for gems Anet makes $0 off your transaction... You should know this after all these posts. Or are you still under the assumption that your, personal, gold to gem transaction magically adds money to Anets account?Yes. They earn $0 from this specific transaction (although it's not really that simple - see below). What you keep omitting is that they earn a ton of money from the fact that people do make those transactions. If you specifically didn't buy gems with gold, Anet would not be visibly impacted (or, at least not at the level that could be estimated, because there might be possibly an impact), but if noone would buy gems with gold, Anet would lose a ton of money.Notice, like i said, that there might be an impact even for your single transaction. Depending on how much did you buy, the gold for gems price mght shift just enough that one more person would decide to buy gems for cash in order to exchange them for gold - and the amount of money they decide to spend on gems is the amount of gold anet earns from the fact that you, specifically, decided to exchange gold for gems. So, in the end, the amount of actual $$ Anet earned from you buying gems for gold is impossible to estimate, but it's not zero.@Swagger.1459 said:Player A doesn’t spend a dime supporting the game.Yes. Player A doesn;t spend a dime, they spend time. Doesn't mean Anet doesn't earn a dime from that person supporting the game though - because they do. And since Anet earned something, then player A definitely did support the game. Even if that wasn't his intention.@Swagger.1459 said:1,000 players exchange gold to get 8,000 gems = $0 to Anet.1 player buying 8,000 gems with money = +$100 to Anet. Simple.0 players exchanging gold for gems - $0 to Anet.0 players buying gems in order to exchange for gold (0, because there is no gold to buy) = 0$ to Anet.Without the first group, the second group doesn't exist. You won't have anyone buying gold for gems without someone else farming that gold.Also simple.In other words, the players who get gems with gold don’t contribute to the quarterly financials. Thank you! “Without the first group, the second group doesn't exist.”... both groups in that example are buying gems... And 1 group gives money to Anet and the other doesn’t. Oh, and “ Player A doesn;t spend a dime, they spend time.”... a player’s “time” doesn’t pay bills or fund development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexxxDelta.1806 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210 Since you like “ discussion and facts”, here are some facts for you...Anet earns money off game sales.Anet earns money when someone buys gems with money. Anet doesn’t earn money when someone exchanges their gold to gems.Nothing on the gemstore is required to play or progress in the game. You can get anything off the gemstore for $0 dollars by exchanging gold to gems.Your future arguments should take those facts in mind. Here' a fact you keep leaving out.When someone buys gems expressly to buy gold off of the exchange Anet earns money.Your argument should take this in mind as we have been saying from the start the exchange makes Anet money as it helps fuel gems sales. No one ever said people just farm gold to help anet, no one said people by gems only to sell on the exchange and no one said the primary reason people do these things it to be "helpful" or support anet, it still doesn't change the fact that this helps fuel gem sales and thus help Anet make profit.If the people buying gold off the exchange could not do so then they would not buy the gems they do, when buying them to purchase gold obviously, and Anet would lose out on those sales and the gold buyers would have to grind their gold like everyone else in game.Umm no kidding when someone buys gems with money Anet makes money. That was established In my post buddy... Or did you miss this part... “ Anet earns money when someone buys gems with money.“And yet again, if you just exchanged gold for gems Anet makes $0 off your transaction... You should know this after all these posts. Or are you still under the assumption that your, personal, gold to gem transaction magically adds money to Anets account? Uh buddy I never said otherwise what I said was people buying gems off the exchange support the game by helping gem sales, you are the one that keeps ignoring the rest of the sentence or argument we have been making to make it appear like peeps that buy gems via gold are freeloaders.You are the one that keeps saying it some kind of mystical mumbo jumbo that this encourage people to buy gems for $$$.Yay! I’m glad that you accept the fact that someone exchanging their gold for gems isn’t funding the game. Player A farms gold.Player A offers gold for gems in the exchange.Player B doesn't want to farm gold but has cash.Player B buys gems with cash and uses them to get gold in the exchange.The gold Player A was offering.Player B wouldn't have spent cash if Player A didn't have gold to offer.Thus Player A enabled Player B's RL cash spending which could be used to fund the game.It's not quantum mechanics...Player A doesn’t spend a dime supporting the game. If everybody was like Player B, nobody would be spending "a dime" on the gold-less exchange. Unless they became a seller themselves and created gold out of thin air, Anet would be earning exactly 0(zero) $ from it. As things are now, they owe the fact they do profit from the exchange to Player A.Again, it's not quantum mechanics. At least to most.Ppl buy a Digital Costume with their hard earned gold .They dont aim to help the company or their masters .Otherwise what ? PPl that play 2-3 hours and waste their gold for potions and other things to the NPCs , are the ones to blame for the lack of money ?If the gems that are already incerted into the system are from 2-3 months ago , then the same can apply to Gold and are circulated all over again.If gems are unlimited (ppl can withdraw all kind of amounts) , then the same can apply to gold .If we see the increased prices of gold/gem ratio there we see in surplus of inc gold , it means ppl are not transforming gem>gold , but instead gem>buy Costumes directly without transforming into gold .Which means that ppl farming gold > are hurting the other ppl that try to farm gold (forcing them to farm more) >repeat circleIn that way you dont help the company , but make the life missarable for the other 89%Its different thing to gives the ability to those who dont have money to have access to a service , and dont get dissqualified (fairness) . (ak.a removing the blant GW1 model)Yeah its not nuclear physics , but stepping back and asking yourselfThe exchange exists because Anet profits from it. It doesn't exist from goodwill or some kind of socialist scheme. It's that simple really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210 Since you like “ discussion and facts”, here are some facts for you...Anet earns money off game sales.Anet earns money when someone buys gems with money. Anet doesn’t earn money when someone exchanges their gold to gems.Nothing on the gemstore is required to play or progress in the game. You can get anything off the gemstore for $0 dollars by exchanging gold to gems.Your future arguments should take those facts in mind. Here' a fact you keep leaving out.When someone buys gems expressly to buy gold off of the exchange Anet earns money.Your argument should take this in mind as we have been saying from the start the exchange makes Anet money as it helps fuel gems sales. No one ever said people just farm gold to help anet, no one said people by gems only to sell on the exchange and no one said the primary reason people do these things it to be "helpful" or support anet, it still doesn't change the fact that this helps fuel gem sales and thus help Anet make profit.If the people buying gold off the exchange could not do so then they would not buy the gems they do, when buying them to purchase gold obviously, and Anet would lose out on those sales and the gold buyers would have to grind their gold like everyone else in game.Umm no kidding when someone buys gems with money Anet makes money. That was established In my post buddy... Or did you miss this part... “ Anet earns money when someone buys gems with money.“And yet again, if you just exchanged gold for gems Anet makes $0 off your transaction... You should know this after all these posts. Or are you still under the assumption that your, personal, gold to gem transaction magically adds money to Anets account? Uh buddy I never said otherwise what I said was people buying gems off the exchange support the game by helping gem sales, you are the one that keeps ignoring the rest of the sentence or argument we have been making to make it appear like peeps that buy gems via gold are freeloaders.You are the one that keeps saying it some kind of mystical mumbo jumbo that this encourage people to buy gems for $$$.Yay! I’m glad that you accept the fact that someone exchanging their gold for gems isn’t funding the game. Player A farms gold.Player A offers gold for gems in the exchange.Player B doesn't want to farm gold but has cash.Player B buys gems with cash and uses them to get gold in the exchange.The gold Player A was offering.Player B wouldn't have spent cash if Player A didn't have gold to offer.Thus Player A enabled Player B's RL cash spending which could be used to fund the game.It's not quantum mechanics...Player A doesn’t spend a dime supporting the game. If everybody was like Player B, nobody would be spending "a dime" on the gold-less exchange. Unless they became a seller themselves and created gold out of thin air, Anet would be earning exactly 0(zero) $ from it. As things are now, they owe the fact they do profit from the exchange to Player A.Again, it's not quantum mechanics. At least to most.Ppl buy a Digital Costume with their hard earned gold .They dont aim to help the company or their masters .Otherwise what ? PPl that play 2-3 hours and waste their gold for potions and other things to the NPCs , are the ones to blame for the lack of money ?If the gems that are already incerted into the system are from 2-3 months ago , then the same can apply to Gold and are circulated all over again.If gems are unlimited (ppl can withdraw all kind of amounts) , then the same can apply to gold .If we see the increased prices of gold/gem ratio there we see in surplus of inc gold , it means ppl are not transforming gem>gold , but instead gem>buy Costumes directly without transforming into gold .Which means that ppl farming gold > are hurting the other ppl that try to farm gold (forcing them to farm more) >repeat circleIn that way you dont help the company , but make the life missarable for the other 89%Its different thing to gives the ability to those who dont have money to have access to a service , and dont get dissqualified (fairness) . (ak.a removing the blant GW1 model)Yeah its not nuclear physics , but stepping back and asking yourselfThe exchange exists because Anet profits from it. It doesn't exist from goodwill or some kind of socialist scheme. It's that simple really.The only way they benefit , is to create a ''non-exclution game'' +''every1is welcomed'' , where you might bring your friends as : a)Twitch Viewers , b) Future Moeny Spenders , c)Ingame population .Its not a socialist scheme , but a bussness prospective that you cant simply cant unterstand by reading a ''study'' from some dude Again ppl keep farming > dont benefit the 10% customers > but punishng the other 89% with the increased gold/gem prices + get a Gemstore item as bonus .The 89% are fighting among them , who whom to ''brake first '' and pay with real money(rly , did you really have to suspend the account? fine ...i leave ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 @Swagger.1459 said:In other words, the players who get gems with gold don’t contribute to the quarterly financials. Thank you!They very much do. Just not directly.“Without the first group, the second group doesn't exist.”... both groups in that example are buying gems... And 1 group gives money to Anet and the other doesn’t.So? In this system still both groups are necessary for Anet to earn anything from it. And I don't see you contending that fact.Oh, and “ Player A doesn;t spend a dime, they spend time.”... a player’s “time” doesn’t pay bills or fund development.In this case, they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 @Astralporing.1957 said:@Swagger.1459 said:In other words, the players who get gems with gold don’t contribute to the quarterly financials. Thank you!They very much do. Just not directly.“Without the first group, the second group doesn't exist.”... both groups in that example are buying gems... And 1 group gives money to Anet and the other doesn’t.So? In this system still both groups are necessary for Anet to earn anything from it. And I don't see you contending that fact.Oh, and “ Player A doesn;t spend a dime, they spend time.”... a player’s “time” doesn’t pay bills or fund development.In this case, they do.At what point does getting fantasy gems with fantasy gold turn into USD, EUR, WON for NCSoft quarterly financials? You didn’t pay attention to the example, so I had to clarify for you. There’s nothing to contest, the purpose of my post is to teach some of you what makes Anet money and what doesn’t. At what point does a player spending seconds, minutes, hours and days turn into USD, EUR, WON for NCSoft quarterly financials? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acheron.4731 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 @Swagger.1459 said:All this hubbub about Anet offering nonessential convenience and cosmetic items on the gemstore... It woudn't even be an issue if they were working equally hard on any substantial content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 @Swagger.1459 said:At what point does getting fantasy gems with fantasy gold turn into USD, EUR, WON for NCSoft quarterly financials? You didn’t pay attention to the example, so I had to clarify for you. There’s nothing to contest, the purpose of my post is to teach some of you what makes Anet money and what doesn’t. At what point does a player spending seconds, minutes, hours and days turn into USD, EUR, WON for NCSoft quarterly financials? Reductionism only works if the simplification provides a sufficient explanation for the phenomenon. Your simplification of how the exchange works ignores key contributions made by Players A who are the suppliers of the in-game commodity that Players B pay money to obtain. A simplification which ignores key elements of what's going on is not a sufficient explanation for the phenomenon. Therefore, your attempt at Reductionism shows either a lack of understanding or an attempt at sophistry. Which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 @Swagger.1459 said:@Astralporing.1957 said:@Swagger.1459 said:In other words, the players who get gems with gold don’t contribute to the quarterly financials. Thank you!They very much do. Just not directly.“Without the first group, the second group doesn't exist.”... both groups in that example are buying gems... And 1 group gives money to Anet and the other doesn’t.So? In this system still both groups are necessary for Anet to earn anything from it. And I don't see you contending that fact.Oh, and “ Player A doesn;t spend a dime, they spend time.”... a player’s “time” doesn’t pay bills or fund development.In this case, they do.At what point does getting fantasy gems with fantasy gold turn into USD, EUR, WON for NCSoft quarterly financials? You didn’t pay attention to the example, so I had to clarify for you. There’s nothing to contest, the purpose of my post is to teach some of you what makes Anet money and what doesn’t. At what point does a player spending seconds, minutes, hours and days turn into USD, EUR, WON for NCSoft quarterly financials? If player pool A dident sell their gold then player pool b would have no gold to buy so they dont buy gems to exchange then 0 cash for anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@Calistin.6210 Since you like “ discussion and facts”, here are some facts for you...Anet earns money off game sales.Anet earns money when someone buys gems with money. Anet doesn’t earn money when someone exchanges their gold to gems.Nothing on the gemstore is required to play or progress in the game. You can get anything off the gemstore for $0 dollars by exchanging gold to gems.Your future arguments should take those facts in mind. Here' a fact you keep leaving out.When someone buys gems expressly to buy gold off of the exchange Anet earns money.Your argument should take this in mind as we have been saying from the start the exchange makes Anet money as it helps fuel gems sales. No one ever said people just farm gold to help anet, no one said people by gems only to sell on the exchange and no one said the primary reason people do these things it to be "helpful" or support anet, it still doesn't change the fact that this helps fuel gem sales and thus help Anet make profit.If the people buying gold off the exchange could not do so then they would not buy the gems they do, when buying them to purchase gold obviously, and Anet would lose out on those sales and the gold buyers would have to grind their gold like everyone else in game.Umm no kidding when someone buys gems with money Anet makes money. That was established In my post buddy... Or did you miss this part... “ Anet earns money when someone buys gems with money.“And yet again, if you just exchanged gold for gems Anet makes $0 off your transaction... You should know this after all these posts. Or are you still under the assumption that your, personal, gold to gem transaction magically adds money to Anets account? Uh buddy I never said otherwise what I said was people buying gems off the exchange support the game by helping gem sales, you are the one that keeps ignoring the rest of the sentence or argument we have been making to make it appear like peeps that buy gems via gold are freeloaders.You are the one that keeps saying it some kind of mystical mumbo jumbo that this encourage people to buy gems for $$$.Yay! I’m glad that you accept the fact that someone exchanging their gold for gems isn’t funding the game. Player A farms gold.Player A offers gold for gems in the exchange.Player B doesn't want to farm gold but has cash.Player B buys gems with cash and uses them to get gold in the exchange.The gold Player A was offering.Player B wouldn't have spent cash if Player A didn't have gold to offer.Thus Player A enabled Player B's RL cash spending which could be used to fund the game.It's not quantum mechanics...Player A doesn’t spend a dime supporting the game. If everybody was like Player B, nobody would be spending "a dime" on the gold-less exchange. Unless they became a seller themselves and created gold out of thin air, Anet would be earning exactly 0(zero) $ from it. As things are now, they owe the fact they do profit from the exchange to Player A.Again, it's not quantum mechanics. At least to most.Ppl buy a Digital Costume with their hard earned gold .They dont aim to help the company or their masters .Otherwise what ? PPl that play 2-3 hours and waste their gold for potions and other things to the NPCs , are the ones to blame for the lack of money ?If the gems that are already incerted into the system are from 2-3 months ago , then the same can apply to Gold and are circulated all over again.If gems are unlimited (ppl can withdraw all kind of amounts) , then the same can apply to gold .If we see the increased prices of gold/gem ratio there we see in surplus of inc gold , it means ppl are not transforming gem>gold , but instead gem>buy Costumes directly without transforming into gold .Which means that ppl farming gold > are hurting the other ppl that try to farm gold (forcing them to farm more) >repeat circleIn that way you dont help the company , but make the life missarable for the other 89%Its different thing to gives the ability to those who dont have money to have access to a service , and dont get dissqualified (fairness) and later on to inv more friends . (ak.a removing the blant GW1 model)Yeah its not nuclear physics , but stepping back and asking yourselfGems arent unlimited neither is gold.If people buy stuff in the gem store those gems are spent so vanishes dont circulate at all.Anet need new people to buy gems and trade for gold (instead of buying directly from the gem store) for the exchange to go down, that dont seem to happen as much nowdays.Can they fudge it by removing gems and adding gold to the pools, of course they can but its not in their best interest since they want the taxes to remove gold from the economy not fuel it further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 @Swagger.1459 said:@Astralporing.1957 said:@Swagger.1459 said:In other words, the players who get gems with gold don’t contribute to the quarterly financials. Thank you!They very much do. Just not directly.“Without the first group, the second group doesn't exist.”... both groups in that example are buying gems... And 1 group gives money to Anet and the other doesn’t.So? In this system still both groups are necessary for Anet to earn anything from it. And I don't see you contending that fact.Oh, and “ Player A doesn;t spend a dime, they spend time.”... a player’s “time” doesn’t pay bills or fund development.In this case, they do.At what point does getting fantasy gems with fantasy gold turn into USD, EUR, WON for NCSoft quarterly financials?All the time, considering it's what fuels the gem purchases of those that buy gold for gems.You didn’t pay attention to the example, so I had to clarify for you. There’s nothing to contest, the purpose of my post is to teach some of you what makes Anet money and what doesn’t.And if you paid attention to what people were trying to explain to you, you would learn that as well. So far, you didn't, and seem completely unaware of the purpose of the whole system.Hint: it is not there so some players can get gemshop stuff without spending cash.You need to first learn before you start to teach. Once you'll learn how the system works, you might try teaching others about it - but so far you;re trying to "teach" people about a subject you clearly lack understanding of.At what point does a player spending seconds, minutes, hours and days turn into USD, EUR, WON for NCSoft quarterly financials?At the moment those seconds, minutes, hours and days are paid for by someone that did spend USD, EUR or GBP for the express purpose of buying the results of that time spent.Hint: at which point carpenter's time spent on making a chair turns into income for the furniture shop? It's the same principle - except the players farming gold are not being paid for their work with real world cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexxxDelta.1806 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 @Swagger.1459 said:@Astralporing.1957 said:@Swagger.1459 said:In other words, the players who get gems with gold don’t contribute to the quarterly financials. Thank you!They very much do. Just not directly.“Without the first group, the second group doesn't exist.”... both groups in that example are buying gems... And 1 group gives money to Anet and the other doesn’t.So? In this system still both groups are necessary for Anet to earn anything from it. And I don't see you contending that fact.Oh, and “ Player A doesn;t spend a dime, they spend time.”... a player’s “time” doesn’t pay bills or fund development.In this case, they do.At what point does getting fantasy gems with fantasy gold turn into USD, EUR, WON for NCSoft quarterly financials? You didn’t pay attention to the example, so I had to clarify for you. There’s nothing to contest, the purpose of my post is to teach some of you what makes Anet money and what doesn’t. At what point does a player spending seconds, minutes, hours and days turn into USD, EUR, WON for NCSoft quarterly financials? You can only "teach" about something you actually understand yourself. Unless you are pretending you don't and this is a pretty successful bait.Still amusing nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 I know it can get kinda confusing, so again, I’ll be helpful...When Anet sends in their weekly or monthly earnings report to NCSoft, there are 2 areas also included... 1 game sales. 2 Gem sales purchased with money. That combined money, earned from those two monetization sources, are what pays shareholders, NCSoft people, Anet people, bills, taxes, R&D... and the huge list of other things that require money. Things to note... If players who don’t spend a dime purchasing gems continued to do so, and Anet removed the gold to gems function, those earnings report would come out the same. And Anet would never stop selling gems to people willing to fork over money, so they don’t really need the gold to gem exchange feature either, they could come up with different gold sinks easily instead. The gold to gem exchange is really there as a fancy gold sink, but at the end of the day the people who change gold to gems do not contribute to the bottom line. In the real world the contributions of that gold to gem exchange feature adds $0 to the financial equation. And it’s pretty unfortunate when some of you complain about Anet putting up more gemstore items. It’s box sales and those nonessential gemstore items that fund the whole operation. Nobody needs anything off the gemstore to play or progress in pve, spvp, wvw... Anet has been cool about letting people get gems for $0 by changing their gold, but those who do that are not adding to the bottom line period.If some of you don’t understand how this all basically works after this post then there is really no helping. Good luck folks and thank you for your time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 @Swagger.1459 said:I know it can get kinda confusing, so again, I’ll be helpful...When Anet sends in their weekly or monthly earnings report to NCSoft, there are 2 areas also included... 1 game sales. 2 Gem sales purchased with money. That combined money, earned from those two monetization sources, are what pays shareholders, NCSoft people, Anet people, bills, taxes, R&D... and the huge list of other things that require money. Things to note... If players who don’t spend a dime purchasing gems continued to do so, and Anet removed the gold to gems function, those earnings report would come out the same. And Anet would never stop selling gems to people willing to fork over money, so they don’t really need the gold to gem exchange feature either, they could come up with different gold sinks easily instead. The gold to gem exchange is really there as a fancy gold sink, but at the end of the day the people who change gold to gems do not contribute to the bottom line. In the real world the contributions of that gold to gem exchange feature adds $0 to the financial equation. And it’s pretty unfortunate when some of you complain about Anet putting up more gemstore items. It’s box sales and those nonessential gemstore items that fund the whole operation. Nobody needs anything off the gemstore to play or progress in pve, spvp, wvw... Anet has been cool about letting people get gems for $0 by changing their gold, but those who do that are not adding to the bottom line period.If some of you don’t understand how this all basically works after this post then there is really no helping. Good luck folks and thank you for your time! Ofcourse they are, were do you think the gold come from that the people buying gems and turning then turning them gold?Since they want is as a gold sink with the gold to gem tax and then back again with the gem to gold tax.They surely aint makeing gold from nothing are they?So if noone traded gold for gems, the gem buyers that want gold wouldent spend cash on gems so anet lose money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 @Linken.6345 said:@Swagger.1459 said:I know it can get kinda confusing, so again, I’ll be helpful...When Anet sends in their weekly or monthly earnings report to NCSoft, there are 2 areas also included... 1 game sales. 2 Gem sales purchased with money. That combined money, earned from those two monetization sources, are what pays shareholders, NCSoft people, Anet people, bills, taxes, R&D... and the huge list of other things that require money. Things to note... If players who don’t spend a dime purchasing gems continued to do so, and Anet removed the gold to gems function, those earnings report would come out the same. And Anet would never stop selling gems to people willing to fork over money, so they don’t really need the gold to gem exchange feature either, they could come up with different gold sinks easily instead. The gold to gem exchange is really there as a fancy gold sink, but at the end of the day the people who change gold to gems do not contribute to the bottom line. In the real world the contributions of that gold to gem exchange feature adds $0 to the financial equation. And it’s pretty unfortunate when some of you complain about Anet putting up more gemstore items. It’s box sales and those nonessential gemstore items that fund the whole operation. Nobody needs anything off the gemstore to play or progress in pve, spvp, wvw... Anet has been cool about letting people get gems for $0 by changing their gold, but those who do that are not adding to the bottom line period.If some of you don’t understand how this all basically works after this post then there is really no helping. Good luck folks and thank you for your time! Ofcourse they are, were do you think the gold come from that the people buying gems and turning then turning them gold?Since they want is as a gold sink with the gold to gem tax and then back again with the gem to gold tax.They surely aint makeing gold from nothing are they?So if noone traded gold for gems, the gem buyers that want gold wouldent spend cash on gems so anet lose money.You are trading gold > for gem to get a reward , you are not doing a service favor to the company .You participating in an ecosystem passivly , not activly to help the companyThe company does not need yourr contribution , because the next day (even if the 90% leave) they could offer ''BUY 1000gold for 100 gems , you can try to buy from goldseller , but you know we track how many gold are transfaired from the ingmae Mail and we will ban you :PPP''The 10% wouldnt have a problem with that , while the 90% would cry about Asian MMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANISHED.9785 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@Acheron.4731 said:@Swagger.1459 said:@"Vancho.8750" This game exists because of money, not the goodwill of donors or volunteers.You do not understand business, like at all, nor how generous Anet has been to gw2 players. And you clearly don’t have any better recommendations. “things got little bit more pushy with the "Macro" transactions”... Game doesn’t run in free pal. I don't think people are arguing that anet needs to make money.The argument is they would like to see anet put as much effort into providing expansion-like content in the game and funnel resources into abandoned gamemodes with at least half the vigor of what they do with the gemstore and finding ways to monetize poorly packaged or designed 'garbage'.The game is just screaming 'buy this now' rather than 'play this now'Right, and money also funds game development, so let’s complain that Anet is trying to make money... That’s a smart idea! Some of you think it must be easy and cheap to develop a game and that things happen overnight. Only a tiny fraction of that money goes back to development (even less these days). You can pretend the main purpose for the increasingly aggressive monetization is development funding but that won't make it true. Repeating it like a mantra wont do it either. Anyone who has been with the game long enough can tell the difference. If the monetization is increasing but the game is looking cheaper, it doesn't take a genius to figure out where the money goes.In the end, we bought a game not a store. If the store ends up looking like it's the priority, why should I care if they can keep the lights on?I don't mean to bring up other games but WoW is a great example of what you're saying. The amount of money they are given to the content received is non comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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