Holo Needs Buffs and Nerfs (Formerly: The recent changes to Holo were good but they weren't enough.)

[Undo.5091]

@shadowpass.4236

In my opinion, answer to both of those questions would be “absolutely not”, but the issue still stands that the entire engineer class is currently struggling with the meta. For whatever reason, you’re cherry picking the class out of all others to call for straight nerfs that directly impact its viability. Every single class has these traits. Do you think Companion’s Defense and Rugged Growth require skill and thought on ranger? Do you think Draconic Echo or Song of the Mists require serious skill or thought to be utilized? I would hope that there’s no argument here.

I don’t disagree with you about some of these skills or traits being poorly designed or too strong, but this isn’t exclusive to one class and the class isn’t in a spot where it can handle serious nerfs to its kit.

While I trust CMC and the others involved, there has been a history of rash balance decisions (necromancer and mesmer come to mind) being made likely from the ideas of “loud” players. I say this because I highly doubt that any competitive team would suggest removing the only viable anti-bunker spec in the meta, but there were enough players complaining to make it happen. The current boring meta is the outcome of just one of these rash choices likely at least somewhat inspired by loud individuals on the forums or other forms of media. Repeatedly asking for nerfs to a single subpar/average class is not going to benefit the game mode in the slightest.

Now here’s a question for you:

1. What specs do you see in the current state of the game that are both viable in the meta and do not involve “easymode” or passive abilities/traits?

You can avoid answering the question if you want because I don’t think that I can even answer it.

[NotoriousNaru.1705]

Shadow this isn't the hill you wanna die on buddy loool. Rifle is mostly a utility weapon, very easy to predict and not at all cancerous for anyone that plays against it. The only thing you need to worry about when fighting one is Overcharged Shot. Pro tip: you don't go in melee and complain about melee OC, you bait it out(not at all hard to do) then dodge the OC, and go in. Also remember that the skill has a CC penalty and since holo seems to be what you have issues with that penalty is quite punishing now after the lack of stab post patch.

Also if you want to compare the meta as a whole since you seem to be upset about skills that are hard to dodge then you might want to start with things that are generally unhealthy and powercreeped, not something that is very very mediocre at best now post patch. Holo is a worse roamer than rev and thief, by quite a bit in terms of both sustain and dmg. Holo CANNOT keep up in terms of 1v1s against rangers/cmirages/spbs/weavers(fire and water) and even revs/thieves will give you a run for your money because both are not as cd dependent as you are(not having elixir u or s up) ofc assuming both players are of equal skill.

Anyways just reading some of your posts the instant defense you seem to go to after being told how average holo is is that you want rifle to not be cheesy and this is where your lack of the meta as a whole shows. Here is a list of things just as annoying if not more than holosmith rifle on current meta builds(my criteria for this list is things on or above blunderbuss power levels):

Gazelle F2 (lack of a tell, very high dmg)Gazelle AutoattackGreatsword 3 on RangerLongbow 2 on RangerHunter's Call on RangerWinter's Bite on RangerAxe Four on RangerDeathstrike On Revenant (port, high spike)Phase Traversal on RevenantStaff 5 on RevenantStaff 2 on RevenantShiro F2 on Revenant (very hard to avoid, boon rip, dmg)Song of the mists on Revenant (instant cast, no way of dodging, stronger version of old equilibrium because no energy restriction)Pistol Whip on Thief (consistently spammable, evade, stun, high spike)Larcenous/Flanking Strike on Thief (consistently spammable, evade, boon rip, moderate spike)Dagger Storm on Thief (omegalul)Cluster Bomb on ThiefBulls Charge on Warrior (similar to oc, lethal in melee, easy to avoid at range, can be baited)Dagger 3 on Warrior(similar to oc, melee cc hard to reactively dodge)Whirlwind Attack on WarriorPrimordial Stance on WeaverLava Skin on WeaverGlyph of Elemental Power on WeaverPyro Vortex on WeaverMantra of Truth on FB (instant cast, multiple condis, multiple charges)Axe 3 on FBArcane Thievery on Mirage ( very hard to avoid, 6s of slow on meta build along with boon steal/condi xfer)Phantasmal Duelist on MirageMagic Bullet on Mirage (harder to dodge than OC, stun, confusion)Scepter 2 on Mirage (block, evade, torment spike)Corrupt Boon on Necro (similar to arcane thievery on mirage, very hard to avoid 3 boon corrupt)Axe 3 on NecroScepter 3 on NecroTainted Shackles on Necro

This is what I came up with on the fly for current meta builds (most of which are much stronger than the current version of holosmith). All I'm trying to say here is if you have some fundamental issues with the way rifle works then you probably have issues with the way the skills listed above work aswell. If that's the case then maybe your post shouldn't be about further nerfing a mediocre spec that sees absolutely no play in competitive and some play in ranked but rather a post giving cmc suggestions for troublesome skills and mechanics in the up coming 'big' balance patch. Maybe that way you'll see better results. What you're doing now seems like a holo witch hunt and really doesn't seem geniune at all but more self serving.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Undo.5091 said:@"shadowpass.4236"

In my opinion, answer to both of those questions would be “absolutely not”, but the issue still stands that the entire engineer class is currently struggling with the meta. For whatever reason, you’re cherry picking the class out of all others to call for straight nerfs that directly impact its viability. Every single class has these traits. Do you think Companion’s Defense and Rugged Growth require skill and thought on ranger? Do you think Draconic Echo or Song of the Mists require serious skill or thought to be utilized? I would hope that there’s no argument here.

I don’t disagree with you about some of these skills or traits being poorly designed or too strong, but this isn’t exclusive to one class and the class isn’t in a spot where it can handle serious nerfs to its kit.

While I trust CMC and the others involved, there has been a history of rash balance decisions (necromancer and mesmer come to mind) being made likely from the ideas of “loud” players. I say this because I highly doubt that any competitive team would suggest removing the only viable anti-bunker spec in the meta, but there were enough players complaining to make it happen. The current boring meta is the outcome of just one of these rash choices likely at least somewhat inspired by loud individuals on the forums or other forms of media.

Now here’s a question for you:

1. What specs do you see in the current state of the game that are both viable in the meta and do not involve “easymode” or passive abilities/traits?

You can avoid answering the question if you want because I don’t think that I can even answer it.

1. Yes I agree. Hence why I've stated several times that I'd be fine with Engi receiving buffs. However, low-skill traits and abilities like the ones I've listed need to get addressed first. Everyone keeps saying, "But Engi needs buffs, not nerfs." when it's perfectly reasonable for a class to receive BOTH at the same time.

2. Skills like Companion's Defense/Rugged Growth don't directly affect your opponent unlike the reveals from Lock On or the instant cast immobilizes/CCs on Holo rifle. I don't care if you apply boons to yourself (to a certain extent), but launching me off the point without giving me a fair shot at SEEING what is about to throw me backwards isn't fair and is a result of bad skill design.

   ---

3. To answer your question, there are actually a few of them. In my opinion, specs that are very fair to fight against have relatively balanced risk-reward gameplay. In other words, the skills they have access to that have a significant impact in a fight have very clear and VISIBLE animations. Warrior, ranger, and revenant are all very good examples of this. (Not including quickness gunflame berserker and stealth oneshot Worldly Impact ranger builds - which aren't very good in the meta, but still unhealthy for the game). All of these classes have very telegraphed animations (with a small handful of outliers) that are actually quite easy to dodge/avoid/kite if you're paying attention. Generally, between opponents of equal skill levels, fights between these classes come down to who can react better and more consistently than the other.

[Avatar.3568]

1. To answer your question, there are actually a few of them. In my opinion, specs that are very fair to fight against have relatively balanced risk-reward gameplay. In other words, the skills they have access to that have a significant impact in a fight have very clear and VISIBLE animations. Warrior, ranger, and revenant are all very good examples of this. (Not including quickness gunflame berserker and stealth oneshot Worldly Impact ranger builds - which aren't very good in the meta, but still unhealthy for the game). All of these classes have very telegraphed animations (with a small handful of outliers) that are actually quite easy to dodge/avoid/kite if you're paying attention. Generally, between opponents of equal skill levels, fights between these classes come down to who can react better and more consistently than the other.

Total agree with that, as a ranger main I love to fight against, revs, warriors and even holos, all matchups are super mechanicle intense and you see in general who's the better player

[Undo.5091]

@shadowpass.4236

1. Then I would suggest you add some buff suggestions to your original post. No one is going to take this thread seriously otherwise. It currently looks like an engineer “witch hunt” as Naru stated.

2. You ignored the revenant traits that I mentioned, which absolutely have a direct impact on a target. As for the ranger traits, you’re right in a sense. They don’t “directly” affect a target, but they do indirectly. Those two traits alone provide health sustain and an incredibly high uptime of protection for doing nothing more than dodging. These are brain dead traits that offer thoughtless and skill-less sustain, indirectly forcing an enemy to blow far more cooldowns. Are these not also “bad skill design”?Do I think these traits should be changed similarly to Lock On? Absolutely. Do I think it’s a good idea to parade around talking about nerfing yet another subpar/average class? No.

3. I completely disagree with you on all three of your choices, but I understand that it’s your opinion. I’ve already mentioned just a few traits alone from ranger and revenant that are fairly thoughtless and skill-less to utilize. As for warrior, I can list Reckless Dodge as just one. None of these traits require much thought to utilize, but they’re all incredibly strong. As for revenant and warrior, they directly impact the opponent, and I’ve already spoken on the ranger traits. Sure, they’re fun to play and have some active gameplay, but that doesn’t mean they’re exempt from also having “easymode” traits and skills.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"NotoriousNaru.1705" said:Shadow this isn't the hill you wanna die on buddy loool. Rifle is mostly a utility weapon, very easy to predict and not at all cancerous for anyone that plays against it. The only thing you need to worry about when fighting one is Overcharged Shot. Pro tip: you don't go in melee and complain about melee OC, you bait it out(not at all hard to do) then dodge the OC, and go in. Also remember that the skill has a CC penalty and since holo seems to be what you have issues with that penalty is quite punishing now after the lack of stab post patch.

Also if you want to compare the meta as a whole since you seem to be upset about skills that are hard to dodge then you might want to start with things that are generally unhealthy and powercreeped, not something that is very very mediocre at best now post patch. Holo is a worse roamer than rev and thief, by quite a bit in terms of both sustain and dmg. Holo CANNOT keep up in terms of 1v1s against rangers/cmirages/spbs/weavers(fire and water) and even revs/thieves will give you a run for your money because both are not as cd dependent as you are(not having elixir u or s up) ofc assuming both players are of equal skill.

Anyways just reading some of your posts the instant defense you seem to go to after being told how average holo is is that you want rifle to not be cheesy and this is where your lack of the meta as a whole shows. Here is a list of things just as annoying if not more than holosmith rifle on current meta builds(my criteria for this list is things on or above blunderbuss power levels):

Gazelle F2 (lack of a tell, very high dmg)Gazelle AutoattackGreatsword 3 on RangerLongbow 2 on RangerHunter's Call on RangerWinter's Bite on RangerAxe Four on RangerDeathstrike On Revenant (port, high spike)Phase Traversal on RevenantStaff 5 on RevenantStaff 2 on RevenantShiro F2 on Revenant (very hard to avoid, boon rip, dmg)Song of the mists on Revenant (instant cast, no way of dodging, stronger version of old equilibrium because no energy restriction)Pistol Whip on Thief (consistently spammable, evade, stun, high spike)Larcenous/Flanking Strike on Thief (consistently spammable, evade, boon rip, moderate spike)Dagger Storm on Thief (omegalul)Cluster Bomb on ThiefBulls Charge on Warrior (similar to oc, lethal in melee, easy to avoid at range, can be baited)Dagger 3 on Warrior(similar to oc, melee cc hard to reactively dodge)Whirlwind Attack on WarriorPrimordial Stance on WeaverLava Skin on WeaverGlyph of Elemental Power on WeaverPyro Vortex on WeaverMantra of Truth on FB (instant cast, multiple condis, multiple charges)Axe 3 on FBArcane Thievery on Mirage ( very hard to avoid, 6s of slow on meta build along with boon steal/condi xfer)Phantasmal Duelist on MirageMagic Bullet on Mirage (harder to dodge than OC, stun, confusion)Scepter 2 on Mirage (block, evade, torment spike)Corrupt Boon on Necro (similar to arcane thievery on mirage, very hard to avoid 3 boon corrupt)Axe 3 on NecroScepter 3 on NecroTainted Shackles on Necro

This is what I came up with on the fly for current meta builds (most of which are much stronger than the current version of holosmith). All I'm trying to say here is if you have some fundamental issues with the way rifle works then you probably have issues with the way the skills listed above work aswell. If that's the case then maybe your post shouldn't be about further nerfing a mediocre spec that sees absolutely no play in competitive and some play in ranked but rather a post giving cmc suggestions for troublesome skills and mechanics in the up coming 'big' balance patch. Maybe that way you'll see better results. What you're doing now seems like a holo witch hunt and really doesn't seem geniune at all but more self serving.

You literally just stated the reason why I dislike fighting against rifle in your first sentence. I shouldn't have to "predict" the immobilize or the launch from Overcharged Shot... In fact, this same exact statement applies to mantra mesmer and thief steals: You don't dodge the mantra charges/Steals/Net Shots/Overcharged Shots, the enemy just missed them. There is no reason why anyone should EVER miss an ability that doesn't have cast time.

---

People don't learn to fight against ranger, even though it's probably one of the most telegraphed classes next to warrior.

Watch these videos if you want to see some examples of me fighting against my main class on Ranger, Engi, and Mesmer.

1. - Mirror Matchup
2. - Punishing Maul
3. - Countering Longbow and Punishing Evade Frames
4. - Good example on how to avoid/bait out ranger skills whilst simultaneously keeping track of pet attacks in a winning 1v2.

Ranger is very easy to fight against:

1. Gazelle F2 and Charge have clear animations with the latter having a big windup as well.
2. You can interrupt them every single time they attempt to use Swoop to escape.
3. Rapid Fire can be LoS'd fairly easily due to the long channel along with the myriad of other ways to counter projectiles at long ranges.
4. Hunter's Call deals almost no damage, has a very distinct and loud sound cue as well as a very visible animation.
5. Winter's Bite and Path of Scars are generally the first skills used when a ranger swaps to Axe/Axe so just pay attention to the weapon swaps and they're easy to avoid.

   ---

Other classes:

1. Deathstrike is annoying with quickness.
2. Phase Traversal is exceptionally easy to counter. It has a very telegraphed animation and the rev cannot dodge mid-port (which is not an evade btw). Simply casting a CC when you see the rev use PT will interrupt their opener every single time.
3. Staff 5 is annoying but it can't take off 50% of your health like it used to so it's fine imo.
4. Staff 2 is telegraphed.
5. Shiro F2 and Song of the Mists are annoying with/without quickness. They should have a better animation/very slightly delayed damage tied to them so they aren't chunking people in an AoE without very good tells.
6. Pistol Whip is very easy to counter. You can easily just run in the opposite direction with swiftness/super speed and the stun won't connect unless they set it up with a teleport like Steal/Shadowstep/Infiltrator's Signet. You could also just walk behind the thief as soon as the animation starts and it won't hit either.
7. The only issue with Flanking Strike -> Larcenous Strike is the fact that both of them are unblockable. Remove the unblockable from the either the first or the second and the skills are fine imo.
8. Dagger Storm shouldn't count towards point capture contribution. That's the only thing wrong with it imo.
9. Cluster Bomb? That skill is fine.
10. Bull's Charge still has a delayed hit in melee range even if they are RIGHT on top of you. This skill is telegraphed and very easy to avoid especially if you keep track of the cooldown mentally.
11. SPB Dagger 3 is hard to dodge but it's not impossible if you're paying attention. In this video, the warrior even attempts to cancel Full Counter early to land D3 but I was keeping an eye out for it.
12. Whirlwind can be sidestepped or dodged (it only does decent damage if it hits multiple times).
13. Okay this is a lot so I'm going to stop here.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Undo.5091 said:@shadowpass.4236

1. Then I would suggest you add some buff suggestions to your original post. No one is going to take this thread seriously otherwise. It currently looks like an engineer “witch hunt” as Naru stated.

2. You ignored the revenant traits that I mentioned, which absolutely have a direct impact on a target. As for the ranger traits, you’re right in a sense. They don’t “directly” affect a target, but they do indirectly. Those two traits alone provide health sustain and an incredibly high uptime of protection for doing nothing more than dodging. These are brain dead traits that offer thoughtless and skill-less sustain, indirectly forcing an enemy to blow far more cooldowns. Are these not also “bad skill design”?Do I think these traits should be changed similarly to Lock On? Absolutely. Do I think it’s a good idea to parade around talking about nerfing yet another subpar/average class? No.

3. I completely disagree with you on all three of your choices, but I understand that it’s your opinion. I’ve already mentioned just a few traits alone from ranger and revenant that are fairly thoughtless and skill-less to utilize. As for warrior, I can list Reckless Dodge as just one. None of these traits require much thought to utilize, but they’re all incredibly strong. As for revenant and warrior, they directly impact the opponent, and I’ve already spoken on the ranger traits. Sure, they’re fun to play and have some active gameplay, but that doesn’t mean they’re exempt from also having “easymode” traits and skills.

1. I honestly just don't want to spend the time doing that but if I change my mind, sure.
2. I don't think Draconic Echo is an issue but almost/instant cast damage like Song of the Mists and Shiro F2 are lame. Stuff that deals damage like this are issues. Companion's Defense gives base 2 seconds of protection. Dodges take 10 seconds to regen or 7.5 seconds with vigor (it's really late so I could be wrong but I don't think so), which is like 1/5 uptime w/o boon duration or 2/5 uptime with max boon duration. Rugged Growth is a way weaker version of Heat Therapy and it only affects rangers when they have protection.
3. Sure. We can agree to disagree. I listed those 3 because I've played/fought against them enough to realize that I'm able to see basically every single one of their attacks before they hit me.

[MrForz.1953]

Meh. Removing Holosmith (and Engineer) from the unhealthy meta won't do it any good. The gap will just be filled by more of the specs that are still part of said meta.

[Chaith.8256]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:I shouldn't have to "predict" the immobilize or the launch from Overcharged Shot...

One minute later

Winter's Bite and Path of Scars are generally the first skills used when a ranger swaps to Axe/Axe so just pay attention to the weapon swaps and they're easy to avoid.

I shouldn't have to predict skills. But you can predict skills, it's easy to avoid.

[Chaith.8256]

@shadowpass.4236

Do you remember saying in other threads how Prot Holo is an oppressive side node build?

According to you, it's achieving that without Net Shot, Overcharged Shot, Blunderbus, Lock On, Elixir S/Toss Elixir S.

If you want to gut all the abovementioned skills, won't that do nothing to lessen mah Holosmith oppression if you make the only build Sw/Sh prot Holo?

[Ouk.5914]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Chaith.8256" said:The main problem I saw here was that you and Mortralis were implying Holosmith stability always scaled with targets hit, no mention of a recent bug, and it wasn't in the game when you were currently claiming it was. I'm not sorry for objecting, what do you want?Like no, sit down.

I don't play this game every day. The last time I touched it (about a week ago), Corona Burst still applied stability per target hit. I want you to understand this instead of shoving it down my throat.

And no, don't tell me to "sit down." when you say stuff like this:

@"Chaith.8256" said:6-8 leaps/blasts in a single water field that lasts 3 seconds, wow, OP! My only question is how do you fit 6-8 seconds of casts & aftercasts into 3 seconds?

You've been the Engi main whose "spent more hours than anyone theorycrafting Engi" and somehow overlooked the fact that it's possible to blast more than 8 times in a single, short duration water field? Okay, sure. Maybe you weren't as thorough as you would've liked to believe, but I'm not here rubbing it in over and over again.

I literally said, "I'm not trying to dig at you" and lightly pointed out the fact that I knew something about engi you didn't. Not to mention you didn't realize it was patched out in November either. So you can chill with the snark. I'm not here attacking anyone. If you want to fact-check me, that's fine. But don't go around saying stuff to undermine me like, "Hurr but I thought you claimed to play Engi." just because my info is slightly outdated.

Look.

My response to you was quite civil considering the fact that you had an attitude right off the bat. It would be nice if you were considerate enough to show me the same respect. (If anything, considering the fact that we're both veteran PvPers, with thousands of hours on this game, who've both been playing since release. I hope you would trust me enough to

at least

give me the benefit of the doubt when I say something.)

my man said " it's possible to blast more than 8 times in a single, short duration water field" LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:I shouldn't have to "predict" the immobilize or the launch from Overcharged Shot...

One minute later

Winter's Bite and Path of Scars are generally the first skills used when a ranger swaps to Axe/Axe so just pay attention to the weapon swaps and they're easy to avoid.

I shouldn't have to predict skills. But you can predict skills, it's easy to avoid.

Did I say dodge the weapon swaps or PAY ATTENTION to the weapon swaps so you have an early indicator of a possible Winter's Bite/Path of Scars opener?

[shadowpass.4236]

@Chaith.8256 said:@shadowpass.4236

Do you remember saying in other threads how Prot Holo is an oppressive side node build?

According to you, it's achieving that without Net Shot, Overcharged Shot, Blunderbus, Lock On, Elixir S/Toss Elixir S.

If you want to gut all the abovementioned skills, won't that do nothing to lessen mah Holosmith oppression if you make the only build Sw/Sh prot Holo?

Yes it's basically unkillable by power on the knight's variant and it also happens to be almost immune to condis (unless you have a ridiculously high amount of boon corrupt).

Prot Holo has access to a massive amount of % damage reduction, extremely high boon uptime, massive condition clears/healing, multiple anti projectiles, perma poison/weakness against single targets and high uptime on both in an AoE, pulsing heals (multiple water fields and light fields as well), pulsing blinds, pulsing chill, permanent 25 stacks of might etc. etc. This build is extremely strong as a side noder and has the ability to massively heal allies in an AoE whilst simultaneously clearing all of their conditions. You have everything you could possibly want in a build asides from stealth.

People doubted mantra mesmer's strength pretty hard until I made the 2 forum threads, one of them containing 70 games of raw footage on EU. If you'd like, I can record myself climbing on Prot Holo as well after my finals.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"Ouk.5914" said:my man said " it's possible to blast more than 8 times in a single, short duration water field" LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

"LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO."

? what is with you people

[Ouk.5914]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Ouk.5914" said:my man said " it's possible to blast more than 8 times in a single, short duration water field" LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

"LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO."

? what is with you people

Shadow Let me get this straight.

Your topic About Rifle holo and made a mention about doing a Blast for "8" leaps or combos but then post a video of prot holo spec doing the blast.

Few things wrong with this video my dude because clearly you don't play prot holo at all and just looking to get a spec nerf to the ground.

Any Good prot holo would Never use the following:

Experimental turret ( if you ever played the spec you'll know it's not worth running due to prot holo being extremely slow with mobility hence why we take mecha legs)Thumper turret ( why would you take this useless utility at all with how the meta is at the moment? This does absolutely noting at all for prot holo beside randomly CC bad players)Egun ( Why would you take Egun over spec shield in a meta where Burst is everything at the moment? Egun only good with up against a heavy condi comp which we don't see much at all)

Now Here's a fact:

Using Shield 4, Healing Turret, Thumper turret, sword 3, Rumble and Egun 4 all with in a field is probably the dumbest thing you can do at all on prot holo and that's not considering the fact you might not ever get the chance to blast that many times in the first place.

Why? Because theirs 0 value in wasting 1stun break, shield4 and a CC utility JUST to blast that many times for no reason, I can almost promise you if you were to ever do that in a game on prot holo you wouldn't last long in holding the node in 1vsX at all or possibly even 1vs1.

Instead of just using crap utilities that don't even get played on prot holo why not use the current meta spec and try again? This entire which hunt to try to prove a point is getting old to the point you went from rifle holo to now showing me issues about "prot holo" on a completely useless build that won't see any competitive love from anyone decent.

[Ouk.5914]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:@shadowpass.4236

Do you remember saying in other threads how Prot Holo is an oppressive side node build?

According to you, it's achieving that without Net Shot, Overcharged Shot, Blunderbus, Lock On, Elixir S/Toss Elixir S.

If you want to gut all the abovementioned skills, won't that do nothing to lessen mah Holosmith oppression if you make the only build Sw/Sh prot Holo?

Yes it's basically unkillable by power on the knight's variant and it also happens to be almost immune to condis (unless you have a ridiculously high amount of boon corrupt).

Prot Holo has access to a massive amount of % damage reduction, extremely high boon uptime, massive condition clears/healing, multiple anti projectiles, perma poison/weakness against single targets and high uptime on both in an AoE, pulsing heals (multiple water fields and light fields as well), pulsing blinds, pulsing chill, permanent 25 stacks of might etc. etc. This build is extremely strong as a side noder and has the ability to massively heal allies in an AoE whilst simultaneously clearing all of their conditions. You have everything you could possibly want in a build asides from stealth.

People doubted mantra mesmer's strength pretty hard until I made the 2 forum threads, one of them containing 70 games of raw footage on EU. If you'd like, I can record myself climbing on Prot Holo as well after my finals.

Here we go again :-1:

Prot holo has Access to massive amount of damage reduction because of Hard-light arena and Shield being traited for the protection up time along with what you get from the alchemy trait line along with it's condi clear when Hard-light arena is up.

Unless you are running Egun you aren't getting Posion/weakness on a target unless you using field blast from Mortar Kit but again your just randomly adding these horrible utility in a meta that it won't work so well in.

Where the hell are you getting Permanent 25 stack of might on Prot holo? How the hell are you getting permanent 25 stack of might? What Meme rune you using with egun? Rune of aristocracy On prot holo in order to get "perm 25 might"?

Like your so delusion it's fucking insane LMAO. You got "everything you want in a build aside from stealth", Even though Elixir S is probably a MUST need utility for prot due to the stealth and Invulnerability given but hey what do I know? I guess getting 25 might on prot holo is a thing even though the spec can't really kill good players besides possibly out sustaining them / pushing them off node slowly but surely if they lack stability.

Been playing prot holo before it was a thing In Na and Started getting back to it After the hard nerfs to necro and i'll tell you right now half the shit you posted about prot holo is so wrong it's insnae. High boon uptime/Condi Cleanse and Damage reduction i can agree but everything else was half ass in order to try to proof your point lmfao. Good luck with the which hunt my dude.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Ouk.5914 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Ouk.5914 said:my man said " it's possible to blast more than 8 times in a single, short duration water field" LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

"LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO."

? what is with you people

Shadow Let me get this straight.

Your topic About Rifle holo and made a mention about doing a Blast for "8" leaps or combos but then post a video of prot holo spec doing the blast.

Few things wrong with this video my dude because clearly you don't play prot holo at all and just looking to get a spec nerf to the ground.

Any Good prot holo would Never use the following:

Experimental turret ( if you ever played the spec you'll know it's not worth running due to prot holo being extremely slow with mobility hence why we take mecha legs)Thumper turret ( why would you take this useless utility at all with how the meta is at the moment? This does absolutely noting at all for prot holo beside randomly CC bad players)Egun ( Why would you take Egun over spec shield in a meta where Burst is everything at the moment? Egun only good with up against a heavy condi comp which we don't see much at all)

Now Here's a fact:

Using Shield 4, Healing Turret, Thumper turret, sword 3, Rumble and Egun 4 all with in a field is probably the dumbest thing you can do at all on prot holo and that's not considering the fact you might not ever get the chance to blast that many times in the first place.

Why? Because theirs 0 value in wasting 1stun break, shield4 and a CC utility JUST to blast that many times for no reason, I can almost promise you if you were to ever do that in a game on prot holo you wouldn't last long in holding the node in 1vsX at all or possibly even 1vs1.

Instead of just using kitten utilities that don't even get played on prot holo why not use the current meta spec and try again? This entire which hunt to try to prove a point is getting old to the point you went from rifle holo to now showing me issues about "prot holo" on a completely useless build that won't see any competitive love from anyone decent.

Prot Holo literally has more mobility than Tools Holo.

• Tools Holo: Holo Leap, Jump Shot (18s cd, 800 range)
• Prot Holo: Holo Leap, Radiant Arc (14s cd, 450 range), Acid Bomb (15s cd, 550 range)

The build is pretty versatile so you can swap several things out to counter the enemy comp. The one I used is the one Drydude came up with which is also the one that is essentially immune to power damage.

You and Chaith think about it the same way. It's usually pretty silly to save all of those cooldowns for the sole purpose of leaping/blasting multiple times. However, there are many times in a fight where you'll have Thumper Turret down and ready to go, same thing with all of those other skills.

My god it's crazy how much people go "you can't/don't play X class." Like if you really want me to do the same for Prot Holo that I did for Mantra Mes, I'll record myself climbing on the build. But then you're going to end up with every engi and their mom running a cancer spec that doesn't die.

[Ouk.5914]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Ouk.5914 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Ouk.5914 said:my man said " it's possible to blast more than 8 times in a single, short duration water field" LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

"LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO."

? what is with you people

Shadow Let me get this straight.

Your topic About Rifle holo and made a mention about doing a Blast for "8" leaps or combos but then post a video of prot holo spec doing the blast.

Few things wrong with this video my dude because clearly you don't play prot holo at all and just looking to get a spec nerf to the ground.

Any Good prot holo would Never use the following:

Experimental turret ( if you ever played the spec you'll know it's not worth running due to prot holo being extremely slow with mobility hence why we take mecha legs)Thumper turret ( why would you take this useless utility at all with how the meta is at the moment? This does absolutely noting at all for prot holo beside randomly CC bad players)Egun ( Why would you take Egun over spec shield in a meta where Burst is everything at the moment? Egun only good with up against a heavy condi comp which we don't see much at all)

Now Here's a fact:

Using Shield 4, Healing Turret, Thumper turret, sword 3, Rumble and Egun 4 all with in a field is probably the dumbest thing you can do at all on prot holo and that's not considering the fact you might not ever get the chance to blast that many times in the first place.

Why? Because theirs 0 value in wasting 1stun break, shield4 and a CC utility JUST to blast that many times for no reason, I can almost promise you if you were to ever do that in a game on prot holo you wouldn't last long in holding the node in 1vsX at all or possibly even 1vs1.

Instead of just using kitten utilities that don't even get played on prot holo why not use the current meta spec and try again? This entire which hunt to try to prove a point is getting old to the point you went from rifle holo to now showing me issues about "prot holo" on a completely useless build that won't see any competitive love from anyone decent.

Prot Holo literally has more mobility than Tools Holo.

• Tools Holo: Holo Leap, Jump Shot (18s cd, 800 range)
• Prot Holo: Holo Leap, Radiant Arc (14s cd, 450 range), Acid Bomb (15s cd, 550 range)

The build is pretty versatile so you can swap several things out to counter the enemy comp. The one I used is the one Drydude came up with which is also the one that is essentially immune to power damage.

You and Chaith think about it the same way. It's usually pretty silly to save all of those cooldowns for the sole purpose of leaping/blasting multiple times. However, there are many times in a fight where you'll have Thumper Turret down and ready to go, same thing with all of those other skills.

My god it's crazy how much people go "you can't/don't play X class." Like if you really want me to do the same for Prot Holo that I did for Mantra Mes, I'll record myself climbing on the build. But then you're going to end up with every engi and their mom running a cancer spec that doesn't die.

Drydude doesn't even Run that build? He's legit part of my Monthly Team and We run the exact same Utility. The Last time drydude Even used Egun was a LONG LONG time ago he doesn't like it on prot holo, SO again with false information and lies.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Ouk.5914 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:@shadowpass.4236

Do you remember saying in other threads how Prot Holo is an oppressive side node build?

According to you, it's achieving that without Net Shot, Overcharged Shot, Blunderbus, Lock On, Elixir S/Toss Elixir S.

If you want to gut all the abovementioned skills, won't that do nothing to lessen mah Holosmith oppression if you make the only build Sw/Sh prot Holo?

Yes it's basically unkillable by power on the knight's variant and it also happens to be almost immune to condis (unless you have a ridiculously high amount of boon corrupt).

Prot Holo has access to a massive amount of % damage reduction, extremely high boon uptime, massive condition clears/healing, multiple anti projectiles, perma poison/weakness against single targets and high uptime on both in an AoE, pulsing heals (multiple water fields and light fields as well), pulsing blinds, pulsing chill, permanent 25 stacks of might etc. etc. This build is extremely strong as a side noder and has the ability to massively heal allies in an AoE whilst simultaneously clearing all of their conditions. You have everything you could possibly want in a build asides from stealth.

People doubted mantra mesmer's strength pretty hard until I made the 2 forum threads, one of them containing 70 games of raw footage on EU. If you'd like, I can record myself climbing on Prot Holo as well after my finals.

Here we go again :-1:

Prot holo has Access to massive amount of damage reduction because of Hard-light arena and Shield being traited for the protection up time along with what you get from the alchemy trait line along with it's condi clear when Hard-light arena is up.

Unless you are running Egun you aren't getting Posion/weakness on a target unless you using field blast from Mortar Kit but again your just randomly adding these horrible utility in a meta that it won't work so well in.

Where the hell are you getting Permanent 25 stack of might on Prot holo? How the hell are you getting permanent 25 stack of might? What Meme rune you using with egun? Rune of aristocracy On prot holo in order to get "perm 25 might"?

Like your so delusion it's kitten insane LMAO. You got "everything you want in a build aside from stealth", Even though Elixir S is probably a MUST need utility for prot due to the stealth and Invulnerability given but hey what do I know? I guess getting 25 might on prot holo is a thing even though the spec can't really kill good players besides possibly out sustaining them / pushing them off node slowly but surely if they lack stability.

Been playing prot holo before it was a thing In Na and Started getting back to it After the hard nerfs to necro and i'll tell you right now half the kitten you posted about prot holo is so wrong it's insnae. High boon uptime/Condi Cleanse and Damage reduction i can agree but everything else was half kitten in order to try to proof your point lmfao. Good luck with the which hunt my dude.

Okay thanks for explaining where the damage reduction comes from? I already knew that but for anyone that didn't, Ouk's got ya covered! lol

Poison Gas Shell + Holo leap is basically perma poison/weakness on a single target. Mortar Kit also pulses chill and blind in an AoE for 5 seconds every 15 and 20 seconds respectively. It also has a long duration water field. The ice field also can be comboed to give you Frost Aura, another 10% damage reduction.

25 stacks of might on Prot Holo? Like dude do you even play this class? Ever heard of this lil trait called "Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit?"

The build can also use demo amulet which makes your sustained damage output far higher than Tools Holo (due to basically perma max might and fury, both of which, Tools Holo lacks in).

[shadowpass.4236]

@Ouk.5914 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Ouk.5914 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Ouk.5914 said:my man said " it's possible to blast more than 8 times in a single, short duration water field" LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

"LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO."

? what is with you people

Shadow Let me get this straight.

Your topic About Rifle holo and made a mention about doing a Blast for "8" leaps or combos but then post a video of prot holo spec doing the blast.

Few things wrong with this video my dude because clearly you don't play prot holo at all and just looking to get a spec nerf to the ground.

Any Good prot holo would Never use the following:

Experimental turret ( if you ever played the spec you'll know it's not worth running due to prot holo being extremely slow with mobility hence why we take mecha legs)Thumper turret ( why would you take this useless utility at all with how the meta is at the moment? This does absolutely noting at all for prot holo beside randomly CC bad players)Egun ( Why would you take Egun over spec shield in a meta where Burst is everything at the moment? Egun only good with up against a heavy condi comp which we don't see much at all)

Now Here's a fact:

Using Shield 4, Healing Turret, Thumper turret, sword 3, Rumble and Egun 4 all with in a field is probably the dumbest thing you can do at all on prot holo and that's not considering the fact you might not ever get the chance to blast that many times in the first place.

Why? Because theirs 0 value in wasting 1stun break, shield4 and a CC utility JUST to blast that many times for no reason, I can almost promise you if you were to ever do that in a game on prot holo you wouldn't last long in holding the node in 1vsX at all or possibly even 1vs1.

Instead of just using kitten utilities that don't even get played on prot holo why not use the current meta spec and try again? This entire which hunt to try to prove a point is getting old to the point you went from rifle holo to now showing me issues about "prot holo" on a completely useless build that won't see any competitive love from anyone decent.

Prot Holo literally has more mobility than Tools Holo.

• Tools Holo: Holo Leap, Jump Shot (18s cd, 800 range)
• Prot Holo: Holo Leap, Radiant Arc (14s cd, 450 range), Acid Bomb (15s cd, 550 range)

The build is pretty versatile so you can swap several things out to counter the enemy comp. The one I used is the one Drydude came up with which is also the one that is essentially immune to power damage.

You and Chaith think about it the same way. It's usually pretty silly to save all of those cooldowns for the sole purpose of leaping/blasting multiple times. However, there are many times in a fight where you'll have Thumper Turret down and ready to go, same thing with all of those other skills.

My god it's crazy how much people go "you can't/don't play X class." Like if you really want me to do the same for Prot Holo that I did for Mantra Mes, I'll record myself climbing on the build. But then you're going to end up with every engi and their mom running a cancer spec that doesn't die.

Drydude doesn't even Run that build? He's legit part of my Monthly Team and We run the exact same Utility. The Last time drydude Even used Egun was a LONG LONG time ago he doesn't like it on prot holo, SO again with false information and lies.

Oh noes me don't know exactly what builds everyone is CURRENTLY using. D:

That's the build he gave me a while back and it's still fine. If there are better versions of the build feel free to post a link cause the old one is still pretty usable.

[ZDragon.3046]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

1. Lock On needs to have the double proc removed (keep the cc one, remove the on-hit one) and increase the cooldown from 25s to 30s.
2. Toss Elixir S stealth needs to get reduced from 6s to 3s. The cooldown is only 30s and it's basically a free reset every time a holo uses it. The current iteration literally gives more stealth uptime than a traited Mass Invisibility on mesmer and the cast time is only 1/2s.
3. Net Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with a visible animation tied to it.
4. Blunderbuss needs a cast time increase to 3/4s with a bigger animation tied to it.
5. Overcharged Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with visible animation tied to it.
6. Photon Forge autoattack range needs to get reduced to match other melee auto attacks.
7. Healing Turret needs it's cast time increased from 3/4s to 1s.

Or we could do none of this....and instead not kill core engi tools and look at the problem which is photon forge (risk)

Note i said RISK because thats the whole issue with the elite mechanic is not its damage or its range but the risk that comes with using it.

How about instead of killing everything that is core engi and for the most part fine you instead look at the problem which is the fact that holo's main mechanic is extremly low risk to use.

How do we solve this problem...

1. We increase passive heat generation over time.
2. We adjust heat generation cost of each of the skills
3. We even consider making it so that holo no longer passively loses heat when they exit without trait investment to do so. (possibly forcing them to choose between stability on holo 3 or losing heat when they exit)
4. We add visuals instant cast damage tool belt skills which are some of the biggest offenders in the most comon holo builds.

Ideally you increase the RISK of using holo instead of nerfing everything that is core engi which ruins it from not only a core but also any other elite perspective.

[Chaith.8256]

@shadowpass.4236 said:Did I say dodge the weapon swaps or PAY ATTENTION to the weapon swaps so you have an early indicator of a possible Winter's Bite/Path of Scars opener?

Did you say PAY ATTENTION or to dodge predictively? Because you can't reactively dodge those skills, that's Naru's entire point.

We can all see that you said to observe the weapon swap and then predict-dodge the first few hits on the hope they're Winter's Bite/Path of Scars instead of an auto-attack, because we all know they just look like the Ranger is quickly chucking' an axe. That's clearly telling people to predict the skills, a strategy which you refuse to acknowledge as fair to be forced to do vs. Holo's rifle.

[wasss.1208]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

1. Lock On needs to have the double proc removed (keep the cc one, remove the on-hit one) and increase the cooldown from 25s to 30s.
2. Toss Elixir S stealth needs to get reduced from 6s to 3s. The cooldown is only 30s and it's basically a free reset every time a holo uses it. The current iteration literally gives more stealth uptime than a traited Mass Invisibility on mesmer and the cast time is only 1/2s.
3. Net Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with a visible animation tied to it.
4. Blunderbuss needs a cast time increase to 3/4s with a bigger animation tied to it.
5. Overcharged Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with visible animation tied to it.

Let me toss in my opinion on the engi nerfs you ask for, if you don't mind.

1. Lock On is pretty annoying to fight against, I wouldn't mind the double proccing to be gone. But I would like to point out, the sceniaro you often mention when talking about this trait (20 vuln, 10 sec fury, 12 sec revealed) can be only achieved by one go, if you get CCd while in stealth.
2. Toss Elixir S - has a great stealth uptime, yes. Low CD? Maybe. But achieving that requires you to pick a grandmaster trait, and a traitline for a minor trait. The baseline details are: 5 seconds of stealth every 45 seconds. There are other downsides that are rarely mentioned: It is a projectile, and thus, can be destroyed by projectile hate. Also has an awfully small AoE, which makes it pretty unreliable if you want to use it on allies. An another thing that is ignored, the fact that core engi and scrapper doesn't have a good way to resustain themselves during the 5-6 sec stealth, like holo does via heat therapy. All they can use this is engaging, escaping, or repositioning.(I see you compare it to Mass Invis. Let me point that out, that you can't really compare skills from different profs. in vacuum, since every prof. has a different kit given around that single skill. More about this later.)3 and 5. None of the skills are instant cast. The tooltip lacks the info, but you can't use these skills while under a CC effect, and you can cancel them by stowing your weapon, as Chaith pointed out in response for one of your other replies. The other thing is, these abilities are really unreliable in long range, basicly rendering them unusable.
3. This is the time when I point out again that you can't compare skills, without looking at the whole picture:You could compare it to Point Blank Shot, but if you doesn't consider the skills around the CC, you would miss out the fact, that the ranger has an easy followup with the Rapid Fire. Something the engineer lacks.Then, the fact you rarely mention when you are talking about this skill, is that it causes self CC. With that, this is the only weapon skill that comes with such a harsh drawback. (Feel free to correct me, I'm actually curious if there is any other weapon skills that do that.) The other thing is: The engi lacks the damage followup for this skill. On the other hand, I agree on adding a better wind-up animation. The game could really use more of those.
4. This is the only power based well damaging weapon ability every engineer has access to. Nerfing this would be a heavy hit to a lot of barely viable builds.

My conclusion: Majority of the changes you mention would hit the barely, or non viable specs of the engineer really hard. While holo players would just reroll to prot holo, which a lot of people hate more than tools. Then the whole thing would start again: nerf thread about prot holo, it gets nerfed, and engi is left without a viable build.My suggestion: Instead of hitting things that would hurt every aspect of the prof, you should focus on things that are exclusive to the problematic spec. Things like Heat Therapy, which doesn't make much sense on a "glass cannon" class.Disclaimers: I don't play tools holo, please correct me if I am wrong; When I say "engi" or "engineer" I mean the class as a whole, not just Holosmith.

(Barely offtopic: you said that you would do a holosmith gameplay video (series?). Please do. I like to listen to GW2 videos during work.)(Barely offtopic #2: Every low cast time CC, as well as every hard CC with high damage will be looked into. Source: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/93817/big-update-news)

[Chaith.8256]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

1. Lock On needs to have the double proc removed (keep the cc one, remove the on-hit one) and increase the cooldown from 25s to 30s.
2. Toss Elixir S stealth needs to get reduced from 6s to 3s. The cooldown is only 30s and it's basically a free reset every time a holo uses it. The current iteration literally gives more stealth uptime than a traited Mass Invisibility on mesmer and the cast time is only 1/2s.
3. Net Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with a visible animation tied to it.
4. Blunderbuss needs a cast time increase to 3/4s with a bigger animation tied to it.
5. Overcharged Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with visible animation tied to it.
6. Photon Forge autoattack range needs to get reduced to match other melee auto attacks.
7. Healing Turret needs it's cast time increased from 3/4s to 1s.

Or we could do none of this....and instead not kill core engi tools and look at the problem which is photon forge (risk)

Note i said RISK because thats the whole issue with the elite mechanic is not its damage or its range but the risk that comes with using it.

How about instead of killing everything that is core engi and for the most part fine you instead look at the problem which is the fact that holo's main mechanic is extremly low risk to use.

How do we solve this problem...

1. We increase passive heat generation over time.
2. We adjust heat generation cost of each of the skills
3. We even consider making it so that holo no longer passively loses heat when they exit without trait investment to do so. (possibly forcing them to choose between stability on holo 3 or losing heat when they exit)
4. We add visuals instant cast damage tool belt skills which are some of the biggest offenders in the most comon holo builds.

Ideally you increase the RISK of using holo instead of nerfing everything that is core engi which ruins it from not only a core but also any other elite perspective.

If Holosmith was getting nerfed, this would be how I hope it would be done.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@wasss.1208 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

1. Lock On needs to have the double proc removed (keep the cc one, remove the on-hit one) and increase the cooldown from 25s to 30s.
2. Toss Elixir S stealth needs to get reduced from 6s to 3s. The cooldown is only 30s and it's basically a free reset every time a holo uses it. The current iteration literally gives more stealth uptime than a traited Mass Invisibility on mesmer and the cast time is only 1/2s.
3. Net Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with a visible animation tied to it.
4. Blunderbuss needs a cast time increase to 3/4s with a bigger animation tied to it.
5. Overcharged Shot needs a cast time of 1/2s or 3/4s with visible animation tied to it.

Let me toss in my opinion on the engi nerfs you ask for, if you don't mind.

1. Lock On is pretty annoying to fight against, I wouldn't mind the double proccing to be gone. But I would like to point out, the sceniaro you often mention when talking about this trait (20 vuln, 10 sec fury, 12 sec revealed) can be only achieved by one go, if you get CCd while in stealth.
2. Toss Elixir S - has a great stealth uptime, yes. Low CD? Maybe. But achieving that requires you to pick a grandmaster trait, and a traitline for a minor trait. The baseline details are: 5 seconds of stealth every 45 seconds. There are other downsides that are rarely mentioned: It is a projectile, and thus, can be destroyed by projectile hate. Also has an awfully small AoE, which makes it pretty unreliable if you want to use it on allies. An another thing that is ignored, the fact that core engi and scrapper doesn't have a good way to resustain themselves during the 5-6 sec stealth, like holo does via heat therapy. All they can use this is engaging, escaping, or repositioning.(I see you compare it to Mass Invis. Let me point that out, that you can't really compare skills from different profs. in vacuum, since every prof. has a different kit given around that single skill. More about this later.)3 and 5. None of the skills are instant cast. The tooltip lacks the info, but you can't use these skills while under a CC effect, and you can cancel them by stowing your weapon, as Chaith pointed out in response for one of your other replies. The other thing is, these abilities are really unreliable in long range, basicly rendering them unusable.
3. This is the time when I point out again that you can't compare skills, without looking at the whole picture:You could compare it to Point Blank Shot, but if you doesn't consider the skills around the CC, you would miss out the fact, that the ranger has an easy followup with the Rapid Fire. Something the engineer lacks.Then, the fact you rarely mention when you are talking about this skill, is that it causes self CC. With that, this is the only weapon skill that comes with such a harsh drawback. (Feel free to correct me, I'm actually curious if there is any other weapon skills that do that.) The other thing is: The engi lacks the damage followup for this skill. On the other hand, I agree on adding a better wind-up animation. The game could really use more of those.
4. This is the only power based well damaging weapon ability every engineer has access to. Nerfing this would be a heavy hit to a lot of barely viable builds.

My conclusion: Majority of the changes you mention would hit the barely, or non viable specs of the engineer really hard. While holo players would just reroll to prot holo, which a lot of people hate more than tools. Then the whole thing would start again: nerf thread about prot holo, it gets nerfed, and engi is left without a viable build.My suggestion: Instead of hitting things that would hurt every aspect of the prof, you should focus on things that are exclusive to the problematic spec. Things like Heat Therapy, which doesn't make much sense on a "glass cannon" class.Disclaimers: I don't play tools holo, please correct me if I am wrong; When I say "engi" or "engineer" I mean the class as a whole, not just Holosmith.

(Barely offtopic: you said that you would do a holosmith gameplay video (series?). Please do. I like to listen to GW2 videos during work.)(Barely offtopic #2: Every low cast time CC, as well as every hard CC with high damage will be looked into. Source:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/93817/big-update-news

)

Mesmers double traited ELITE has lower stealth uptime.All while having longer cast time, and on a class that cant just do master blaster moves to heal to full.