This Patch MAJORLY Buffs Necromancers in PvP/WvW

[Barnesy.5839]

Holy crap this patch is one of the biggest buffs to necromancers I have seen in a very long time.

Allow me to illustrate:Damage has been nerfed by ~33%. Healing has been nerfed by ~33% The result of this change is that players will take 50% longer to kill (1/0.67 = 1.5).

I'll prove it with an example: Suppose you have 10k HP. You are receiving 2k incoming DPS and you are also receiving 1k healing/s. That is a net 1k DPS that you are receiving, and thus you'll be dead in 10s.If you nerf both the DPS and healing/s by 33%. You are now receiving 1340 incoming DPS and you are receiving 670 healing/s. That is a net 670 DPS that you are receiving and thus you'll be dead in 15s. (50% longer to kill)

Necromancers have been hugely buffed because damage and healing has been nerfed, but max HP and life force gain have NOT been nerfed. Life force is a secondary form of healing which has not been nerfed. (except for scourges using nourishing ashes, however the 33% damage/healing nerf is still a massive net buff for life force based survivability)

This buff to life force survivability and life force sustain is massive. By nerfing damage and healing by 33% it effectively buffs life force survivability/sustain by 50%!

Necromancers are going to be extremely strong in PvP/WvW this patch and way more durable.

TL;DR: The new patch makes all forms of Life force survivability/sustain 50% stronger.

[KrHome.1920]

Not extremely strong.

Example: teef will be a bigger hardcounter than ever before because we can't oneshot them anymore, which was the only reliable way to deal with the skilled ones of them.

Your general interpretation of the patch is correct. I said basically the same some weeks ago in some thread here in the subforum. But keep in mind, that mobility of other classes was barely touched (some small cooldown increase here and there) and that's the sticking point. Mobility can only be countered with burst and we do lose a lot of burst.

Examples: good old deadly GS5 -> weaponstow -> GS2 combo will hit like a wet noodle, executioner scythe will do nothing except some litte chill if the target has a stunbreak ready... and so on.

So there are good reasons why anet did not touch life force generation and most healing skills on necro. We will be harder to burst, but we do also need more time to kill which gives our target more time to react to bursts and kite or disengage.

I am pretty sure that wurm and focus will have a place in pretty much every single build I will play. Otherwise everything at a higher distance than 900 will just laugh at us.

[SPESHAL.9106]

LULZ...you couldn't get any more primitive with your analysis if you tried.

What did Necros get in exchange for damage going down overall? They now have less stability, less stun breaks, less boon corrupts, AND less damage.

What profession are you going to kill without cc, boon corrupts, and no stability PLUS less damage?

The professions with high mobility, stealth and 100% scaling type defenses (blocks, immunities, evades) will be even more viable against solo AND zergs. Necros only gain the arguable small gain in survivability against 1 person max. It won't matter a bit against 2 players and double cc. Thus, Necros are EVEN MORE likely to be target #1 in any competitive scenario. Everyone else gained similar survivability, but also kept their mobility/stealth/100% scaling defenses. Some didn't even lose that much damage when you consider how outrageous the damage was to start. It's still MORE than enough to kill the miniscule extra health given to Necros base stamina.

[KrHome.1920]

@SPESHAL.9106 said:LULZ...you couldn't get any more primitive with your analysis if you tried.

What did Necros get in exchange for damage going down overall? They now have less stability, less stun breaks, less boon corrupts, AND less damage.

What profession are you going to kill without cc, boon corrupts, and no stability PLUS less damage?CC duration is increased. Boon application is nerfed and corruptions accordingly adjusted.

The professions with high mobility, stealth and 100% scaling type defenses (blocks, immunities, evades) will be even more viable against solo AND zergs. Necros only gain the arguable small gain in survivability against 1 person max. It won't matter a bit against 2 players and double cc. Thus, Necros are EVEN MORE likely to be target #1 in any competitive scenario. Everyone else gained similar survivability, but also kept their mobility/stealth/100% scaling defenses. Some didn't even lose that much damage when you consider how outrageous the damage was to start. It's still MORE than enough to kill the miniscule extra health given to Necros base stamina.If you do not notice the huge difference between berserker and demolisher amulet regarding your outcome on necro then I don't know what to tell you.

Or maybe in other words: If the only available amulet would be berserker then necro would have a lot more 1v1 counters and a lot more problems in team fights as if the only amulet would be demolisher.

[SPESHAL.9106]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@"SPESHAL.9106" said:LULZ...you couldn't get any more primitive with your analysis if you tried.

What did Necros get in exchange for damage going down overall? They now have less stability, less stun breaks, less boon corrupts, AND less damage.

What profession are you going to kill without cc, boon corrupts, and no stability PLUS less damage?CC duration is increased. Boon application is nerfed and corruptions accordingly adjusted.

What Necro CC duration increased? They actually nerfed the talent to increase fear duration by FIFTY PERCENT!Did you also notice this patch is a huge nerf to - Feed from Corruption - with no compensation on a talent that was already extinct?

If boon application and corruption is "accordingly" adjusted for the cc duration increase (that's non existent for Necros), you pretty much made my case. Even if they did buff Necro cc duration, it would only keep things equal for the loss of corruption.

BTW, they also nerfed spectral skills that added mobility and protection in addition to extra life force, so an argument for increased survivability on demand (needed for a zerg) just went down AGAIN.

If you can't see that no amulet is going to save a Necro from being focused more than ever now, I don't know what to tell you. Why wouldn't you focus the profession with the least stability..no mobility...40+ second cooldowns on key utilities...highest cast time abilities...no stealth..no 100% scaling defenses like blocks/evades/immunites...no vigor for more dodges...no life force to start the match which means tons of abilities/cc/talents aren't even available.

[Kuulpb.5412]

@Barnesy.5839 said:Holy kitten this patch is one of the biggest buffs to necromancers I have seen in a very long time.

Allow me to illustrate:Damage has been nerfed by ~33%. Healing has been nerfed by ~33% The result of this change is that players will take 50% longer to kill (1/0.67 = 1.5).

I'll prove it with an example: Suppose you have 10k HP. You are receiving 2k incoming DPS and you are also receiving 1k healing/s. That is a net 1k DPS that you are receiving, and thus you'll be dead in 10s.If you nerf both the DPS and healing/s by 33%. You are now receiving 1340 incoming DPS and you are receiving 670 healing/s. That is a net 670 DPS that you are receiving and thus you'll be dead in 15s. (50% longer to kill)

Necromancers have been hugely buffed because damage and healing has been nerfed, but max HP and life force gain have NOT been nerfed. Life force is a secondary form of healing which has not been nerfed. (except for scourges using nourishing ashes, however the 33% damage/healing nerf is still a massive net buff for life force based survivability)

This buff to life force survivability and life force sustain is massive. By nerfing damage and healing by 33% it effectively buffs life force survivability/sustain by 50%!

Necromancers are going to be extremely strong in PvP/WvW this patch and way more durable.

TL;DR: The new patch makes all forms of Life force survivability/sustain 50% stronger.

10s of stun or 15s of stun, same outcome, one lets you play less.

[Nimon.7840]

If necro was a sitting duck before the patch. It'll be a snail without lube in the next patch.Which needs supports to guard it's ass more than ever.

[Gamble.4580]

Lol necro is going to be one of the strongest classes of patch stays the same for pvp.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

@SPESHAL.9106 said:

If you can't see that no amulet is going to save a Necro from being focused more than ever now, I don't know what to tell you. Why wouldn't you focus the profession with the least stability..no mobility...40+ second cooldowns on key utilities...highest cast time abilities...no stealth..no 100% scaling defenses like blocks/evades/immunites...no vigor for more dodges...no life force to start the match which means tons of abilities/cc/talents aren't even available.

About that...Notice that even here they kicked us in the balls. Deadshot and Wanderer, two very necro friendly amulets are getting removed...

[Junkpile.7439]

It's usually take about 0.5sec to kill necro if he play power. Necromancer would be ok if they would fix shroud skills. Skill 2 could be ground target teleport, lifeplast could shoot faster and skill 5 could do something usefull. Some stability would be nice too.

[Rym.1469]

Good observation OP.

[Yasai.3549]

The problem when it comes to Necro is when skill is put into the equation.

Necro is pretty OPGG Facerolly.Every single Necro build is very face rolly if allowed to do so.

But this changes when yu face skilled opponents, or at the very least, opponents who know their class and know Necro well.This allows other classes' flexible mechanics combined with skill to take free passes on any Necro, all a symptom of their extremely simple kit.

A skilled Necro at the very least knows how to use Spectral Walk and Flesh Wurm to give themselves powerful positioning so that they can destroy their opponents, but even that has limits because they are both on pretty long cooldowns.

At the end of the day, Necro's lack of CC protection and kit simplicity will be the downfall of a class which is extremely powerful on paper.

[ZDragon.3046]

Sorry but while there are indeed a buffs to specificly name themChill to the bone (lower coold down)Axe 3 (now easier to trigger bonus strike)Eternal life (replacing Foot in the Grave) which may or may not be seen as buff to some people

Lets not for get though chill to the bone lost its damage for the cdAxe 1 and 2 lost damage for the gain on skill 3No more foot in the grave means you have 0 options on breaking stuns other than with spectral walk, armor, wurm. which are main viable break stuns atm.

The majority of things are still big nerfs and easily overlooked.

• Less self might
• Pigeon toed into "Awaken the pain" in the spite line
• Weaker to CC than before even if CC's do no damage.
• Core shroud Doom now has a cast time
• Other professions with less boon + weaker corrupts = slower condi ramp speed

I would on paper currently say that with the loss of foot in the grave + the doom cast time core shroud is going to be comparable with scourge. IT will not be something super fit for solo play it will need a buddy as the moment it gets cc'ed in shroud its completely shut down.

Necromancer will now be more vulnerable to cc than it already was with only a whopping 4 skills now providing stability 2 of them being elite skills and one of them being in scourges kit which no one will run the only other skill is reaper 3 and thats now down to 3 seconds which wont amount to much in a team fight. Its enough to promise your soul spiral wont get interrupted by most professions and thats about it.

Generally necro will remain one of the stronger professions mainly because

• its play style is not being forced to change much if at all (not enough traits / skills changed to enforce this which is not really a bad thing)
• others now wont have insane damage allowing its ability to damage soak work more properly and be more equivalent to damage evasion.
• other players no longer having perma boon which lesses the need for all of its skills to corrupt boons and people can take less boon corrupt in their builds now.

Its not because of any buffs that necro will be a strong professionNecro was held to anets core launch day standards unlike other professions which is why it had none of the other insane things the other professions have thus why it was not nerfed as much as some of the others because it didnt need to be.

At the moment from looking at anets notes Reaper holds the most promise of all the elites necro has and thats only because its currently still being allowed to keep Relentless Onslaught meaning its shroud is going to still be a threat if anything more after the patch than it is now. ITs actually going to be scary to let a reaper get within melee range on you if the allow the trait to go unchanged.

Overall people will have to accept that necro wont be as easy to kill after the patch (especially in small fights 1v1 / 2v2) and they wont like that feeling even-though thats the idea of how necro was designed to be. People will be so use to killing it quickly that when they cant do that they will deem it as op and needs more nerfing.

To be honest im more worried about firebrand and guardian in general when i look at the pvp notes and global notes for guardian im very concerned that firebrand will also still play the same with slightly less boon but will still be insanely strong.

[Dadnir.5038]

This patch isn't a "major buff to the necromancer", this patch is just an artificial increase to the current TTK. The necromancer's survivability will sure benefit from it but other profession's survivability will benefit from it as well. Which make the necromancer and other professions even.

All in all, the necromancer isn't more favored by the overall decrease of damage and sustain than other professions.

One interesting thing however is that with the damage decreased, minionmasters might become a viable option and make a come back in sPvP since an increase of the ttk help a lot this kind of builds. (Well, it most likely won't be long before the nerf bat fall if it become popular because: "AI shouldn't rule sPvP! Nerf minions!")

Signet builds might have the potential to become OP as well. Which will most likely lead player to complain about the necromancer having to much health point (nothing new).

On the corruption side, ANet cut off quite a bit, yet I don't think the complains about corruption will die down.

In conclusion, all professions will most likely feel lacking but tough after the patch. And the necromancer won't be an exception.

[Sigmoid.7082]

Core signet necro is going to be incredibly tanky.