What is left for guard?

[Zephoid.4263]

With the patch notes its really depressing how many non-competitive builds and weapons are getting nerfed. Whats the point? How are these correlated to any stats? Was this literally done with a dart board?

I'm looking at guard. FB needed nerfed, we all can agree. But core guard and DH are getting shafted hard too, and it ways that don't even touch FB. Weapon damage across the board was expected, but its going to be really hard for to build anything viable.

Hunter's Determination: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds -A FIVE MIN cooldown? Come on man. NOTHING else in the game has this type of cooldown.

Monk's Focus: Reduced base heal from 1960 to 1470-Well that probably kills one of the only viable core builds, along with the nerfs to EVERY SINGLE MEDITATION except the elite.

Hammer of Wisdom: Reduced power coefficient from 1.2 to 0.01. Increased ammo recharge from 25 seconds to 30 seconds-Hah.. funny. Did anyone actually take this. Ever? Might have been borderline viable with the stab nerfs, but they really hammered the spirit hammer.

"Hold the Line!": Reduced protection duration from 6 seconds to 4 seconds"Stand Your Ground!": Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 45 seconds. Reduced target cap from 10 to 5.-Wait, someone actually used Hold The Line in a single PVP game? Isn't it in the running for one of the worst utilities in the game? Stand your ground was the only viable shout in the guard lineup, now nerfed.

Mighty Blow: Increased power coefficient from 1.75 to 1.82. Increased cooldown from 4 seconds to 10 seconds-Oh god, its dead Anet. Stop beating the hammer with the nerf hammer. It was barely a viable weapon at its best and now has got like 4 rounds of nerfs. Literally every single hammer skill got nerfed this patch.

"Receive the Light!": Reduced initial self-heal coefficient from 0.8 to 0.4. Reduced allied pulse heal coefficient from 0.6 to 0.2-Nice, 2.25s cast time heal getting nerfed. In addition to all the healing abilities on staff, the traits that provide healing power, and every source of concentration.

Cleansing Flame: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.4 to 0.28-Ah yes, the ability where you breath fire on your target... that doesn't burn until the last strike... gets its power ratio nerfed. How is a .4 coef a problem?

Also,4/6 traps got nerfed5/6 mantras got nerfed

Someone REALLY didn't like guard. There was NOTHING given back in those patch notes. Every single touch was a nerf.

[LadyErika.3489]

Wondering the same thing. It's actually insane lol. Firebrand 100% needed nerfs, but diversity is gonna die for guard more than likely. I guess guard isn't allowed to dps. xd Mrauls says to hope big game hunter will carry our damage, so we'll see if some kind of power DH build comes out that doesn't use a bow. But it's a yikes.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"Zephoid.4263"calm down, everyone lost damage. count yourself lucky if you just lost damage and healing.even garbage that did 300 dmg got nerfed, and others got enitre good traits shafted, removed from the game or entire mechanics ripped from the game.% dmg nerf is not a big deal. stop crying wolf

YOU "Cleansing Flame: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.4 to 0.28-Ah yes, the ability where you breath fire on your target... that doesn't burn until the last strike... gets its power ratio nerfed. How is a .4 coef a problem?

well, maybe becouse this ability hits 10 times? and over its 4.0 ?thats just example, everyone lost damage.

[Abelisk.5148]

I'm just going to start making topics like these for every class so people can get the picture.

[KrHome.1920]

@Zephoid.4263 said:Hunter's Determination: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds -A FIVE MIN cooldown? Come on man. NOTHING else in the game has this type of cooldown.Now there will be much of it, because every single auto-stunbreak / auto-damage-immunity training wheels trait gets this 5 minute cooldown!

Hope that calms you down.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Zephoid.4263

Dude the nerfs on Guardian are equal the nerfs on everything else, coefficient wise. it's fine.

In fact, Core Guardian got away on the good side of things with these patch notes. It will indirectly be buffed when the patch hits, because all hard CCs are being put to 0 damage output, but Core Guardian has mostly all soft CC hard damage skills still.

Core Guardian will be one of the only meta builds left who's burst is untouched. <- That is going to count for a lot when this patch drops. Core Guard might end up being a solid actual meta after the patch hits due to this.

[Ragnar.4257]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"Zephoid.4263"

Dude the nerfs on Guardian are equal the nerfs on everything else, coefficient wise. it's fine.

In fact, Core Guardian got away on the good side of things with these patch notes. It will indirectly be buffed when the patch hits, because all hard CCs are being put to 0 damage output, but Core Guardian has mostly all soft CC hard damage skills still.

Core Guardian will be one of the only meta builds left who's burst is untouched. <- That is going to count for a lot when this patch drops. Core Guard might end up being a solid actual meta after the patch hits due to this.

What patch notes were you reading? All core guard weapon skills took the same 30-40% hit that everyone else is taking, Smite Condition got nerfed 80%, as well as nerfs to healing from meditations and other sources. The immobilize from VoJ on Radiance trait got reduced from 3s to 1s, which is pretty significant part of GS burst.

I'm not saying Core Guardian has it worse than other classes, but I just don't see this "untouched" you're talking about.

Core Guard was outclassed by stuff like Holo and Herald before patch, and I don't see that changing after patch.

[reikken.4961]

read the entire patch notes, bruv. Everything got nerfed, not just guard.

this is the anti powercreep patch. Everything is nerfed.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"Zephoid.4263"

Dude the nerfs on Guardian are equal the nerfs on everything else, coefficient wise. it's fine.

In fact, Core Guardian got away on the good side of things with these patch notes. It will indirectly be buffed when the patch hits, because all hard CCs are being put to 0 damage output, but Core Guardian has mostly all soft CC hard damage skills still.

Core Guardian will be one of the only meta builds left who's burst is untouched.

<- That is going to count for a lot when this patch drops. Core Guard might end up being a solid actual meta after the patch hits due to this.

What patch notes were you reading? All core guard weapon skills took the same 30-40% hit that everyone else is taking, Smite Condition got nerfed

80%

, as well as nerfs to healing from meditations and other sources. The immobilize from VoJ on Radiance trait got reduced from 3s to 1s, which is pretty significant part of GS burst.

I'm not saying Core Guardian has it worse than other classes, but I just don't see this "untouched" you're talking about.

Core Guard was outclassed by stuff like Holo and Herald before patch, and I don't see that changing after patch.

Uh ok, let me explain what I mean:

• Every class took equal nerfing in the 30% dps decline department.
• By untouched I mean, mechanically no significant changes so the burst will function normally, whereas other classes received weird changes.
• Due to the not relying on any hard CC skills in its burst, it will maintain all of its damage on those skills, even so at the 30% nerf that everyone received. Other classes like Warrior or DH as the biggest examples, are seriously losing like an additional 30%+ damage due to 1/3rd or 1/2 of their skills in combo chains being hard CCs that are now dropping to 0 damage output. That's what I mean by virtually untouched.

Proportionately, the Core Guardian is not losing as much damage output as other classes are. He'll end up being one of the top 3 heavy damage dealers next meta.

[otto.5684]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@Zephoid.4263

Dude the nerfs on Guardian are equal the nerfs on everything else, coefficient wise. it's fine.

In fact, Core Guardian got away on the good side of things with these patch notes. It will indirectly be buffed when the patch hits, because all hard CCs are being put to 0 damage output, but Core Guardian has mostly all soft CC hard damage skills still.

Core Guardian will be one of the only meta builds left who's burst is untouched. <- That is going to count for a lot when this patch drops. Core Guard might end up being a solid actual meta after the patch hits due to this.

I do agree, but not for core guardian. FB nerfs where generally less than most. There was almost no change to FB condi damage at all (less tome), and maintains significant portion of what it has.

As for core guardian, damage is there survivability is not, at all. It is already terrible on live. It will nerfed as every one else. LoW is super integral for the build in many ways. With it losing on duration I do not see core guardian working what so ever.

On the other hand, DH will probably be the power guardian meta, since ToF is mostly intact and purification was one of the least impacted heals. VoR is not touched. Reg duration and potency from neither is impacted. And IMO the nerf to healing on mediation is much weaker than the avg overall healing nerfs. Plus More damage coming from virtues. Smite was buffed, lol. Will DH be effective? Not sure, but surely looks pretty damn survivable, with possibly very high damage spikes from virtues and big game hunter. If you manage to stack big game hunter, unscathed contender and whatever is the extra damage from using a virtue, this will be a minimum 50%. Very will thought off balance lmao.

Also, with the the exception of torch, which no one uses, guardian condi application seams to remain the same. If there is going to be a core strong build, the most likely is core condi, virtues/zeal/valor.

I overall think the meta will be 2 FB, 2 DDs with maybe SB, herald or DH. Most of the other classes seam to be royally fucked. In my opinion, the changes are so bad balance wise. Extremely bad, that whatever is the meta it will be the least diverse with the most over powered builds we have seen since PoF release. There is almost no thought whatsoever put in vast majority of the changes. Just blanket poorly thought of nerfs.

[Zephoid.4263]

I could see burn guard being a thing, but i think core medi guard is dead. The nerf to literally every meditation in addition to the heal on trait is going to be really, really rough.

My real complaint is with a lot of the underplayed traits and utilities getting HUGE nerfs for literally no reason. No one played them, why are they getting hit. Core guard already had a very small selection of viable utilities (all but 1 shout is crap, spirit weapons have only sword, consecrations are bad, only medis were really playable). I expected all the meta skills and probably most of the mantras to get significant nerfs, which they did. The sheer scope of nerfs with literally not a single buff is... rough.

I was really hoping for this patch to give SOMETHING back to all those underplayed skills, maybe even shift the meta so they are relevant in their current state. Instead they get more nerfs. Its really beating the dead horse.

[Kaburro.4712]

@"Zephoid.4263" said:With the patch notes its really depressing how many non-competitive builds and weapons are getting nerfed. Whats the point? How are these correlated to any stats? Was this literally done with a dart board?

I'm looking at guard. FB needed nerfed, we all can agree. But core guard and DH are getting shafted hard too, and it ways that don't even touch FB. Weapon damage across the board was expected, but its going to be really hard for to build anything viable.

Hunter's Determination: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds -A FIVE MIN cooldown? Come on man. NOTHING else in the game has this type of cooldown.

Monk's Focus: Reduced base heal from 1960 to 1470-Well that probably kills one of the only viable core builds, along with the nerfs to EVERY SINGLE MEDITATION except the elite.

Hammer of Wisdom: Reduced power coefficient from 1.2 to 0.01. Increased ammo recharge from 25 seconds to 30 seconds-Hah.. funny. Did anyone actually take this. Ever? Might have been borderline viable with the stab nerfs, but they really hammered the spirit hammer.

"Hold the Line!": Reduced protection duration from 6 seconds to 4 seconds"Stand Your Ground!": Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 45 seconds. Reduced target cap from 10 to 5.-Wait, someone actually used Hold The Line in a single PVP game? Isn't it in the running for one of the worst utilities in the game? Stand your ground was the only viable shout in the guard lineup, now nerfed.

Mighty Blow: Increased power coefficient from 1.75 to 1.82. Increased cooldown from 4 seconds to 10 seconds-Oh god, its dead Anet. Stop beating the hammer with the nerf hammer. It was barely a viable weapon at its best and now has got like 4 rounds of nerfs. Literally every single hammer skill got nerfed this patch.

"Receive the Light!": Reduced initial self-heal coefficient from 0.8 to 0.4. Reduced allied pulse heal coefficient from 0.6 to 0.2-Nice, 2.25s cast time heal getting nerfed. In addition to all the healing abilities on staff, the traits that provide healing power, and every source of concentration.

Cleansing Flame: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.4 to 0.28-Ah yes, the ability where you breath fire on your target... that doesn't burn until the last strike... gets its power ratio nerfed. How is a .4 coef a problem?

Also,4/6 traps got nerfed5/6 mantras got nerfed

Someone REALLY didn't like guard. There was NOTHING given back in those patch notes. Every single touch was a nerf.

All those "nerf FB" threads should worth something. Well, why not nerf guard in general, as if guard ever was op like warr...

[Tharan.9085]

@"Zephoid.4263" said:With the patch notes its really depressing how many non-competitive builds and weapons are getting nerfed. Whats the point? How are these correlated to any stats? Was this literally done with a dart board?

I'm looking at guard. FB needed nerfed, we all can agree. But core guard and DH are getting shafted hard too, and it ways that don't even touch FB. Weapon damage across the board was expected, but its going to be really hard for to build anything viable.

Hunter's Determination: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds -A FIVE MIN cooldown? Come on man. NOTHING else in the game has this type of cooldown.

Monk's Focus: Reduced base heal from 1960 to 1470-Well that probably kills one of the only viable core builds, along with the nerfs to EVERY SINGLE MEDITATION except the elite.

Hammer of Wisdom: Reduced power coefficient from 1.2 to 0.01. Increased ammo recharge from 25 seconds to 30 seconds-Hah.. funny. Did anyone actually take this. Ever? Might have been borderline viable with the stab nerfs, but they really hammered the spirit hammer.

"Hold the Line!": Reduced protection duration from 6 seconds to 4 seconds"Stand Your Ground!": Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 45 seconds. Reduced target cap from 10 to 5.-Wait, someone actually used Hold The Line in a single PVP game? Isn't it in the running for one of the worst utilities in the game? Stand your ground was the only viable shout in the guard lineup, now nerfed.

Mighty Blow: Increased power coefficient from 1.75 to 1.82. Increased cooldown from 4 seconds to 10 seconds-Oh god, its dead Anet. Stop beating the hammer with the nerf hammer. It was barely a viable weapon at its best and now has got like 4 rounds of nerfs. Literally every single hammer skill got nerfed this patch.

"Receive the Light!": Reduced initial self-heal coefficient from 0.8 to 0.4. Reduced allied pulse heal coefficient from 0.6 to 0.2-Nice, 2.25s cast time heal getting nerfed. In addition to all the healing abilities on staff, the traits that provide healing power, and every source of concentration.

Cleansing Flame: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.4 to 0.28-Ah yes, the ability where you breath fire on your target... that doesn't burn until the last strike... gets its power ratio nerfed. How is a .4 coef a problem?

Also,4/6 traps got nerfed5/6 mantras got nerfed

Someone REALLY didn't like guard. There was NOTHING given back in those patch notes. Every single touch was a nerf.

I OnLy LoOk At My ClAsS aNd It Is HiT wAy HaRdEr ThEn EvErYtHiNg ElSe

[Tharan.9085]

I mean test of faith even got fcking buffed

[Kaburro.4712]

@Tharan.9085 said:I mean test of faith even got fcking buffed

Who even use it? People still playing trapperino? o.O

[Tharan.9085]

@Kaburro.4712 said:

@Tharan.9085 said:I mean test of faith even got fcking buffed

Who even use it? People still playing trapperino? o.O

DH uses it

[Kaburro.4712]

@Tharan.9085 said:

@Kaburro.4712 said:

@Tharan.9085 said:I mean test of faith even got fcking buffed

Who even use it? People still playing trapperino? o.O

DH uses it

DH is known as trapperino, Renewd Focus DH.

[Tharan.9085]

@Kaburro.4712 said:

@Tharan.9085 said:

@Kaburro.4712 said:

@Tharan.9085 said:I mean test of faith even got fcking buffed

Who even use it? People still playing trapperino? o.O

DH uses it

DH is known as trapperino, Renewd Focus DH.

Well, I use it in p3

[Kaburro.4712]

@Tharan.9085 said:

@Kaburro.4712 said:

@Tharan.9085 said:

@Kaburro.4712 said:

@Tharan.9085 said:I mean test of faith even got fcking buffed

Who even use it? People still playing trapperino? o.O

DH uses it

DH is known as trapperino, Renewd Focus DH.

Well, I use it in p3

Thats ok, in g1/2 we are fine with core ;) gl

[Kaburro.4712]

@Kaburro.4712 said:

@Tharan.9085 said:

@Kaburro.4712 said:

@Tharan.9085 said:

@Kaburro.4712 said:

@Tharan.9085 said:I mean test of faith even got fcking buffed

Who even use it? People still playing trapperino? o.O

DH uses it

DH is known as trapperino, Renewd Focus DH.

Well, I use it in p3

Thats ok, in g1/2 we are fine with core ;) gl

Now I'll be honest, I didn't though DH was viable anymore, but I miss it and i'll trust you!

[Stand The Wall.6987]

the mighty blow nerf is just malicious. theres no logical reason for it to have a 10sec cd. stand your ground nerf is one of the dumbest nerfs in the patch considering its the # 1 important skill in wvw and has been carrying zergs since day 1.

[Buran.3796]

Taking in consideration how much the whole damage will fall across the classes and how strong are the multiple variants of Guardian bunker and bruiser builds are I think this class will be the strongest one, albeit the amount of variety in builds will suffer (still, better than be entirely removed from the game as will happen with some).

[otto.5684]

@Tharan.9085 said:I mean test of faith even got fcking buffed

I would not call it buffed. The initial damage is 0. Only subsequent passing through it deal very slightly more damage.

I think people who say guardian is dead have not read some of the other class changes. Most of guardian healing capacity has not changed, outside of core guardian, which is currently dead, and will be surely remain so. DH (less LB) and FB look strong. Extremely strong. Condi guardian damage will be so ridiculous.

I think the meta FB current builds will be far stronger. Possibly DH/valor/virtues GS/sword & shield will be one of the strongest meta builds. I am expectation utilities will be purification, smite, CoP, ToF and RI (with possibility of focus instead of shield and JI instead of smite of ToF). By all means the patch is a shit show and fucking disaster in the making. However, if things go the way they are, guardian will dominate.

[Tharan.9085]

@otto.5684 said:

@Tharan.9085 said:I mean test of faith even got fcking buffed

I would not call it buffed. The initial damage is 0. Only subsequent passing through it deal very slightly more damage.

I think people who say guardian is dead have not read some of the other class changes. Most of guardian healing capacity has not changed, outside of core guardian, which is currently dead, and will be surely remain so. DH (less LB) and FB look strong. Extremely strong. Condi guardian damage will be so ridiculous.

I think the meta FB current builds will be far stronger. Possibly DH/valor/virtues GS/sword & shield will be one of the strongest meta builds. I am expectation utilities will be purification, smite, CoP, ToF and RI (with possibility of focus instead of shield and JI instead of smite of ToF). By all means the patch is a kitten show and kitten disaster in the making. However, if things go the way they are, guardian will dominate.

The initial dmg was low anyways

[Thorstienn.1642]

Just play condi FB and stomp the world. Hell, FB just in general will still be pretty bloody strong.Or go DH and just push/pull enemies through your traps and/or spirit sword, which WILL be like the strongest damaging skills in the game.