Solution to stealth

[Abelisk.5148]

Stealthed enemy within 1200 range = yellow exclamation mark in debuff panelStealthed enemy within 400 range = red exclamation mark.

Each debuff has a sound effect as well. Debuffs can stack depending on stealthed enemy count.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Stealthed enemy within 1200 range = yellow exclamation mark in debuff panelStealthed enemy within 400 range = red exclamation mark.

Each debuff has a sound effect as well. Debuffs can stack depending on stealthed enemy count.

I'd like that.

You can call it "unnerving presence" and "deathly presence" respectively.

No promises I wont abuse it by walking right next to you then leaving though.

You're also going to have to think about how that affects stealthed escapes. Maybe 900 and 400 range debuffs are better.

[Abelisk.5148]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Stealthed enemy within 1200 range = yellow exclamation mark in debuff panelStealthed enemy within 400 range = red exclamation mark.

Each debuff has a sound effect as well. Debuffs can stack depending on stealthed enemy count.

I'd like that.

You can call it "unnerving presence" and "deathly presence" respectively.

No promises I wont abuse it by walking right next to you then leaving though.

Stealth strats! It's a win-win for both parties.

[Genesis.5169]

The only solution for stealth is the power to give devs the power to ignore people who complain about stealth. No way a thief gonna kill any class out of stealth with out resealthing while your cool downs and his cool downs are rotating you have ages to think of a game plan to solve the issue.

And if you were preoccupied and get 100-0'd in 3 seconds you just got outplayed that means the thief waited till your guard was down and you were on CD while your attention was focused on another matter to kill you which is 100% okay by me as that should be encouraged by class designed they are suppposed to catch you off guard and punish you for it, your supposed to be on guard and punish them for showing too soon and blow them up or use a defensive cd and force them back into stealth.

[Leonidrex.5649]

whats the point of stealth then?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I liked the idea in the other nerf stealth thread more. Damage debuff which increases longer ur in stealth. No debuff if 3 secs or less so full bursts are still possible especially with 1200 ranged steal on core. Swipe being 600 range would benefit being at least 900 range to suit the change better. This reduces the one shot potential or soon to be just large burst from thief's that just stealth'd up and travelled across the map. If a player has good map awareness they should be well aware of a thief trying to do full bursts as the 3 sec or lower put thieves at least in its opponents vicinity.Big plus is implementation actually seems reasonable.

[ZDragon.3046]

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Stealthed enemy within 1200 range = yellow exclamation mark in debuff panelStealthed enemy within 400 range = red exclamation mark.

Each debuff has a sound effect as well. Debuffs can stack depending on stealthed enemy count.

Effectively does nothing but add visual bloat to the game. That wont stop a thief from perma stalling near you or what happens where there is more than once instance of stealth which takes priority.

either rework stealth entirely or lean into other methods that effectively have more meaning. Just because you know a thief is close wont stop them from just stalling and waiting for you to burn skill if anything this just encourages you to burn more skill where it might not be effective.

The damage reduction idea i saw in some other post would be more effective especially when people want to stall for long long periods of time.Ideally if they reduce damage in the right way and eliminate one shot potential thief should be fine. IF stealth is still too insane after the nerfs then nerf it directly and if that still does not solve the problem its time to rework how it works.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:I liked the idea in the other nerf stealth thread more. Damage debuff which increases longer ur in stealth. No debuff if 3 secs or less so full bursts are still possible especially with 1200 ranged steal on core. Swipe being 600 range would benefit being at least 900 range to suit the change better. This reduces the one shot potential or soon to be just large burst from thief's that just stealth'd up and travelled across the map. If a player has good map awareness they should be well aware of a thief trying to do full bursts as the 3 sec or lower put thieves at least in its opponents vicinity.

so long story short, buff thief.nerf mesmer ?instad of throwing ideas like darts at a dartboard " buff this nerf this and this 1 specific build will be fine" -> becouse other builds WONT be fine.first ask yourself question1 -> whats the point of stealth.2 -> how does stealth does its job.3 -> how well stealth does its job4 -> how is stealth overperforming5 -> why stealth is used6 -> how does stealth fit the build/why it does fit buildsthen provide change, that only and I repeat ONLY screws over with "overperforming"your change fixes nothing. It buffs thief too strong as it is. they can keep restealthing and booming people. people can still permastealth.all that does is nerf to mesmers mass invis and engi stealths, nothing else.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:I liked the idea in the other nerf stealth thread more. Damage debuff which increases longer ur in stealth. No debuff if 3 secs or less so full bursts are still possible especially with 1200 ranged steal on core. Swipe being 600 range would benefit being at least 900 range to suit the change better. This reduces the one shot potential or soon to be just large burst from thief's that just stealth'd up and travelled across the map. If a player has good map awareness they should be well aware of a thief trying to do full bursts as the 3 sec or lower put thieves at least in its opponents vicinity.

so long story short, buff thief.nerf mesmer ?instad of throwing ideas like darts at a dartboard " buff this nerf this and this 1 specific build will be fine" -> becouse other builds WONT be fine.first ask yourself question1 -> whats the point of stealth.2 -> how does stealth does its job.3 -> how well stealth does its job4 -> how is stealth overperforming5 -> why stealth is used6 -> how does stealth fit the build/why it does fit buildsthen provide change, that only and I repeat ONLY screws over with "overperforming"your change fixes nothing. It buffs thief too strong as it is. they can keep restealthing and booming people. people can still permastealth.all that does is nerf to mesmers mass invis and engi stealths, nothing else.

I wasnt under the impression mesmer relied on stealth as much as thieves, I also apologize for insinuating that mesmer should because its ur class get the same debuffs as thief if using same mechanic lmao sry I didnt include mesmer gets to retain more damage in stealth than thief lol u serious right now? Wow u are biased.can a mesmer not do a full burst in the 3 sec allotment? Shouldn't it get rebuffed if stealth'd for long duration weather its stacked stealth or just long duration stealth skill? Isnt long duration stealth high bursts the issue no matter what class is doing it? Ranger can follow these iterations as well as scrapper.Honestly was just throwing out a legitimate attempt to make stealth itself have drawbacks regardless of who's casting it unlike most suggestions that are just hidden delete thief posts and unrealistic changes that will never happen. Enjoy stealth as it is then lolOnly someone biased could see any of what I posted as anything close to a buff wtf.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Psycoprophet.8107you are missing the point, you want to nerf stealth becouse thief abuses it.but you also want to buff thief to compensate, all the while leaving other stealth classes like ranger/engi/mesmer with no compensation.Mesmer can make builds without stealth, thief can make builds without stealth too.Give solution that FIXES THE PROBLEM and not introduces MORE OF THEM.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Psycoprophet.8107you are missing the point, you want to nerf stealth becouse thief abuses it.but you also want to buff thief to compensate, all the while leaving other stealth classes like ranger/engi/mesmer with no compensation.Mesmer can make builds without stealth, thief can make builds without stealth too.Give solution that FIXES THE PROBLEM and not introduces MORE OF THEM.

Because thief abuses it? So the mesmer one shots outa stealth isnt the same? Mesmers can stealth from a good distance and do very high bursts same as a long duration stealth backstab, same cheese regardless the class. U cant call it abuse on one class but not on urs cuz u play it, that is the epitome of bias no? U cant restealth but the engagements is still the same cheese and mesmers have there own ways to be evasive post stealth bursts.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Psycoprophet.8107you are missing the point, you want to nerf stealth becouse thief abuses it.but you also want to buff thief to compensate, all the while leaving other stealth classes like ranger/engi/mesmer with no compensation.Mesmer can make builds without stealth, thief can make builds without stealth too.Give solution that FIXES THE PROBLEM and not introduces MORE OF THEM.

Because thief abuses it? So the mesmer one shots outa stealth isnt the same? Mesmers can stealth from a good distance and do very high bursts same as a long duration stealth backstab, same cheese regardless the class. U cant call it abuse on one class but not on urs cuz u play it, that is the epitome of bias no?

true, but unlike thiefs stealth. mesmers stealth is nerfed next patch.midnight upped CD.decoy upped CD.mass upped CD.desperate preety much removed from the game.meanwhile thief can still pretty much perm stealth.one them is not like the otheeeer

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Psycoprophet.8107you are missing the point, you want to nerf stealth becouse thief abuses it.but you also want to buff thief to compensate, all the while leaving other stealth classes like ranger/engi/mesmer with no compensation.Mesmer can make builds without stealth, thief can make builds without stealth too.Give solution that FIXES THE PROBLEM and not introduces MORE OF THEM.

Because thief abuses it? So the mesmer one shots outa stealth isnt the same? Mesmers can stealth from a good distance and do very high bursts same as a long duration stealth backstab, same cheese regardless the class. U cant call it abuse on one class but not on urs cuz u play it, that is the epitome of bias no?

true, but unlike thiefs stealth. mesmers stealth is nerfed next patch.midnight upped CD.decoy upped CD.mass upped CD.desperate preety much removed from the game.meanwhile thief can still pretty much perm stealth.one them is not like the otheeeer

Well then maybe the CD would need adjusted to fit the debuffs that come with such a powerful mechanic right like bit lower cd or even a trait that's useless now gives 4 instead of 3 sec stealth before debuff occurs lol for example instead of the op stealth heal its gain 1 ini per 3 sec on stealth and 1 sec extra before debuff since the stealth on heal is OP. Using thief as example of course

[Downstate.4697]

Man just knock them out of stealth if they get hit. Simple

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@FrownyClown.8402 said:Man just knock them out of stealth if they get hit. Simple

That also would be completely feasible.

[mrauls.6519]

I like a lot of the ideas posted here. I do think taking damage should break stealth, but then it would be too easy to spam a simple AoE to reveal folks. Wouldn't work in WvW for instance. The issue with having a buff/debuff on your bar that alerted you of stealthed enemies nearby, is that players could spam About Face to avoid a backstab for instance. Takes away some of the required awareness on the players part

[Abelisk.5148]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:whats the point of stealth then?

To hide from an enemy, and to not be able to get targeted.

@"mrauls.6519" said:I like a lot of the ideas posted here. I do think taking damage should break stealth, but then it would be too easy to spam a simple AoE to reveal folks. Wouldn't work in WvW for instance. The issue with having a buff/debuff on your bar that alerted you of stealthed enemies nearby, is that players could spam About Face to avoid a backstab for instance. Takes away some of the required awareness on the players part

I've already been spamming about face, and even then backstabs can be timed just right.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:whats the point of stealth then?

To hide from an enemy, and to not be able to get targeted.

@"mrauls.6519" said:I like a lot of the ideas posted here. I do think taking damage should break stealth, but then it would be too easy to spam a simple AoE to reveal folks. Wouldn't work in WvW for instance. The issue with having a buff/debuff on your bar that alerted you of stealthed enemies nearby, is that players could spam About Face to avoid a backstab for instance. Takes away some of the required awareness on the players part

I've already been spamming about face, and even then backstabs can be timed just right.

in conquest there is no reason to hide from enemy.and not getting targeted is worse version of block/evasion/invulnerability.

[crepuscular.9047]

just make the stealther get 1 shotted if they are doing opportunity attacks recklessly

[Abelisk.5148]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:whats the point of stealth then?

To hide from an enemy, and to not be able to get targeted.

@"mrauls.6519" said:I like a lot of the ideas posted here. I do think taking damage should break stealth, but then it would be too easy to spam a simple AoE to reveal folks. Wouldn't work in WvW for instance. The issue with having a buff/debuff on your bar that alerted you of stealthed enemies nearby, is that players could spam About Face to avoid a backstab for instance. Takes away some of the required awareness on the players part

I've already been spamming about face, and even then backstabs can be timed just right.

in conquest there is no reason to hide from enemy.and not getting targeted is worse version of block/evasion/invulnerability.

It's all for the sake of playstyle. The idea of having notifications is to allow players to anticipate one shot bursts and measure incoming enemies, making it easier to make the decision to kite or leave, or stay if you have enough allies near you. This solidifies the concept of Conquest in where it is a numbers game. Stealth as it stands bypasses that, it is not fair.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:whats the point of stealth then?

To hide from an enemy, and to not be able to get targeted.

@"mrauls.6519" said:I like a lot of the ideas posted here. I do think taking damage should break stealth, but then it would be too easy to spam a simple AoE to reveal folks. Wouldn't work in WvW for instance. The issue with having a buff/debuff on your bar that alerted you of stealthed enemies nearby, is that players could spam About Face to avoid a backstab for instance. Takes away some of the required awareness on the players part

I've already been spamming about face, and even then backstabs can be timed just right.

in conquest there is no reason to hide from enemy.and not getting targeted is worse version of block/evasion/invulnerability.

It's all for the sake of playstyle. The idea of having notifications is to allow players to anticipate one shot bursts and measure incoming enemies, making it easier to make the decision to kite or leave, or stay if you have enough allies near you. This solidifies the concept of Conquest in where it is a numbers game. Stealth as it stands bypasses that, it is not fair.

then people will stop using stealth and use other tools like evasion, blocks, invulnerabilities and hard CC.but dont complain later that there is no Variety in the game and everyone uses the same perma "dodge" builds.

[saerni.2584]

None of these are “solutions to stealth.” They are “additional gameplay mechanics that require rebalancing significant numbers of traits, utilities, and profession mechanics.”

“Solutions to stealth” that are currently in the game include: reveal, marked (forced reveal after X stealth duration), and gameplay (standing in a smoke field to block blasts and force them out of stealth).

You are better off asking for certain skills to apply reveal or marked. That way you have actual counterplay to stealth and not just a new mechanic that won’t be implemented.

Not that marked is a totally good mechanic at the moment. Marked should only reveal after 10 seconds in stealth. The wvw version is on too short of a timer to be fair to give out more commonly.

[Pengu.7481]

reveal exist. stop trying to look for problems were there arent any. nuff said

[Abelisk.5148]

Who would win: one new Stealth mechanic that works for all classes and does not require balancing, or a new skill that takes up a spot for a class and requires dev work for most, if not all classes?

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Who would win: one new Stealth mechanic that works for all classes and does not require balancing, or a new skill that takes up a spot for a class and requires dev work for most, if not all classes?

what makes you think that "new stealth mechanics" will work for all classes and require no balancing?here is something for you, nothing is EVER balanced. unless things are exactly equal they are not balancedbalance is a goal that you CHASE but you never REACH. things cant be balanced.you need constad vigil, constant patches to fix things.

here is fun note for you.chess are unbalanced.yes you heard it right.white chess wins more. they have the same tools but white moves first and has small advantage.someone always has advantage no matter how trivial