9k Fear damage on death log

[Faux Play.6104]

With the new concept of cc vs. damage should terror necros really be doing 9k damage from fear?

[Dadnir.5038]

9k fear damage mean that you've been feared for more than 6 seconds by a necromancer with 25 might stacks while you were under heavy amount of vuln stacks. Cleanse, resistance, stunbreak, condition damage reduction mods, stability could have reduced this amount by quite a lot.

But, let me answer to your concern about terror damage with another question:

Should CC'd characters take damage while they are CC'd?

Denying Terror the right to deal damage to the character is the same as denying the right to deal power damage to a stuned character. Now if you believe that a controled character should be freed from the control effect whenever he take damage, I'd 100% agree with you. ANet focus on lasting CCs is spoiling the game. Interupt is great, lasting CCs are just unfun to play against (it's true for fear like it's true for every other lasting CCs).

[Faux Play.6104]

@Dadnir.5038 said:9k fear damage mean that you've been feared for more than 6 seconds by a necromancer with 25 might stacks while you were under heavy amount of vuln stacks. Cleanse, resistance, stunbreak, condition damage reduction mods, stability could have reduced this amount by quite a lot.

But, let me answer to your concern about terror damage with another question:

Should CC'd characters take damage while they are CC'd?

Denying

Terror

the right to deal damage to the character is the same as denying the right to deal power damage to a stuned character. Now if you believe that a controled character should be freed from the control effect whenever he take damage, I'd 100% agree with you. ANet focus on lasting CCs is spoiling the game. Interupt is great, lasting CCs are just unfun to play against (it's true for fear like it's true for every other lasting CCs).

The point of CC is to set someone up to do damage to them. The CC skill itself shouldn't be doing that much damage.

[Aktium.9506]

9k fear damage means you spent at least 7-9s feared. That's a lot of time spent cc'd. I don't know about you, but spending that long in cc usually means I'm dead at the end of it regardless of which class is using me as a pinata.

I imagine if any other class had its damage logged as just "stun damage" when they dealt damage to a cc'd enemy. It would be a lot more than 9k.

[Eugchriss.2046]

@Faux Play.6104 said:With the new concept of cc vs. damage should terror necros really be doing 9k damage from fear?Terror is not a CC, it is and always have been a condition. FIFY.

[storm.3120]

@Aktium.9506 said:9k fear damage means you spent at least 7-9s feared. That's a lot of time spent cc'd. I don't know about you, but spending that long in cc usually means I'm dead at the end of it regardless of which class is using me as a pinata.You arent making any sense there. This update meant that CC spam alone wont do damage but lightning rod and terror contradicting that.@Dadnir.5038 Fear does ~1k per second, what 25 might stacks/vulns/6s ?

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Odik.4587 said:

@Aktium.9506 said:9k fear damage means you spent at least 7-9s feared. That's a lot of time spent cc'd. I don't know about you, but spending that long in cc usually means I'm dead at the end of it regardless of which class is using me as a pinata.You arent making any sense there. This update meant that CC spam alone wont do damage but lightning rod and terror contradicting that.@Dadnir.5038 Fear does ~1k per second, what 25 might stacks/vulns/6s ?

Necro lacks burst outside of Terror. For most classes, the CC sets up the burst. For necro, Fear is the burst. There's a bit of additional followup, but it's nothing compared to the other 8 professions.

Also, 7-9s feared means you ate at least 3 Fear of Death Dooms bare minimum for their entire durations without using a stunbreak or cleanse. More if it was Reaper or Scourge (as their Fears are 1 second long base). Doom has a cast time now. You can dodge, block, blind, or interrupt it, or throw up Stability/Resistance/Aegis to block it (ideally the later two).

If he was corrupting your Stability...maybe don't use much Stability? Necro fears and stuns are all telegraphed well with exception of Reaper's Mark, but that's a short duration. Try Resistance, blocking, or dodging their CC and return fire with your own.

[storm.3120]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Aktium.9506 said:9k fear damage means you spent at least 7-9s feared. That's a lot of time spent cc'd. I don't know about you, but spending that long in cc usually means I'm dead at the end of it regardless of which class is using me as a pinata.You arent making any sense there. This update meant that CC spam alone wont do damage but lightning rod and terror contradicting that.@"Dadnir.5038" Fear does ~1k per second, what 25 might stacks/vulns/6s ?

Necro lacks burst outside of Terror. For most classes, the CC sets up the burst. For necro, Fear

is

the burst. There's a bit of additional followup, but it's nothing compared to the other 8 professions.

Also, 7-9s feared means you ate at least 3 Fear of Death Dooms bare minimum for their entire durations without using a stunbreak or cleanse. More if it was Reaper or Scourge (as their Fears are 1 second long base). Doom has a cast time now. You can dodge or interrupt it, or throw up Stability/Resistance/Aegis to block it.I see a lot of necromancer "experts" and their "dont nerf my cheese spec", thats really getting old.And what you say is absolutely nonsense. CC shouldnt do damage . What you are basically saying to me "I want to CC spam opponents to death!" which they were against when changed all CC to do 0 damage. With reduced access to stability/breakstuns that makes even less sense, all this people that reffer to resistance which is super limited on certain classes only making me think we arent playing the same game.Let me help you

Counterplay is important

. Skills that have a major impact on an enemy player should allow that player the opportunity to react, which means that we want to avoid instant skills that do

large amounts of damage

or

hard cc

I shouldnt use all my cleanses and breakstuns in panic because I was HARD CC"d

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Shortest Fear cooldown is 20 seconds. "CC spam to death" isn't actually something core Necro can do due to short durations on their CC and low burst ability (plus the fact Fear makes it harder to kill someone than other disables as they're opening a gap). Reaper comes closest, and they can't practically do it either since most of their stun duration is spent winding up the next stun. Of note, your basic dodge cools down in 20 seconds with permanent Weakness, so you are capable of always saving a dodge for Doom. That cooldown also means you were fighting for at least 40 seconds to receive 9k Terror damage, which means your stunbreaks should have come off cooldown at some point.

When people mention Resistance , it's because they have no idea what class you're playing. Some do have it, so when you are playing on a class that has it, it's a perfectly valid option. If you're not, then clearly that piece of advice doesn't apply to you. It might apply to someone else.

@"Odik.4587" said:Let me help you

Counterplay is important

. Skills that have a major impact on an enemy player should allow that player the opportunity to react, which means that we want to avoid instant skills that do

large amounts of damage

or

hard cc

I shouldnt use all my cleanses and breakstuns in panic because I was HARD CC"d

Interesting, there are no instant-cast Fears anymore. It's like that note was already addressed.

And if you're not using your breakstuns when you're hard CC'd, I think I found your problem.

[Aktium.9506]

@"Odik.4587" said:I see a lot of necromancer "experts" and their "dont nerf my cheese spec", thats really getting old.My literal first post in like a year after coming back was me wanting Necro nerfed because the meta build in 2v2 is lame as hell. But ok.

As for removing Terror damage. You could I suppose, but Necro condi damage is really bad without it these days. Maybe changing it to be something more active like making Feared targets receive double stacks of condis when condis are applied to them while Feared?

[storm.3120]

@Aktium.9506 said:

@"Odik.4587" said:I see a lot of necromancer "experts" and their "dont nerf my cheese spec", thats really getting old.My literal first post in like a year after coming back was me wanting Necro nerfed because the meta build in 2v2 is lame as hell. But ok.

As for removing Terror damage. You could I suppose, but Necro condi damage is really bad without it these days. Maybe changing it to be something more active like making Feared targets receive double stacks of condis when condis are applied to them while Feared?LOL. Just think what would it do when paired with burn guardian or condi mesmer ? They would be exploded right away.Terror makes necromancer players lazy and kill their opponents not through conditions but through fear. It could be fine it wouldnt do so much damage, may be...

[Aktium.9506]

@Odik.4587 said:

@Aktium.9506 said:

@Odik.4587 said:I see a lot of necromancer "experts" and their "dont nerf my cheese spec", thats really getting old.My literal first post in like a year after coming back was me wanting Necro nerfed because the meta build in 2v2 is lame as hell. But ok.

As for removing Terror damage. You could I suppose, but Necro condi damage is really bad without it these days. Maybe changing it to be something more active like making Feared targets receive double stacks of condis when condis are applied to them while Feared?LOL. Just think what would it do when paired with burn guardian or condi mesmer ? They would be exploded right away.Terror makes necromancer players lazy and kill their opponents not through conditions but through fear.I should probably have specified that it should only work like that for the Necro

[KrHome.1920]

Every other class would have killed you in the about 8 seconds you have been cc'd. These threads are getting old.

The necro has to chain fear skills and corrupts and he has heavily built to achieve that. The rest of his toolkit is weak to say the least. You can counter a fear chain with a stunbreak or an instant condi cleanse. If you haven't both then don't fight such a build or you could take a look whether pve suits you more. Open world mobs have less variety than pvp encounters.

[storm.3120]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@"Odik.4587" said:Let me help you

Counterplay is important

. Skills that have a major impact on an enemy player should allow that player the opportunity to react, which means that we want to avoid instant skills that do

large amounts of damage

or

hard cc

I shouldnt use all my cleanses and breakstuns in panic because I was HARD CC"d

Interesting, there are no instant-cast Fears anymore. It's like that note was already addressed.

And if you're not using your breakstuns when you're hard CC'd, I think I found your problem.Reading is hard. Thats what CMC said in the patch. All hard cc does no damage. Since you cant read/understand that its pointless to talk to you, ciao lad.You are a completely pepega if you breakstun every CC regardless of situation :joy:. Thats clearly not my problem.

[ArthurDent.9538]

Blanket nerfing all cc to 0 damage was dumb to begin with so sure terror should be allowed to remain a viable trait option.

[storm.3120]

@ArthurDent.9538 said:Blanket nerfing all cc to 0 damage was dumb to begin with so sure terror should be allowed to remain a viable trait option.Damage was nerfed on skill that had CC attached to it and its way different when CC-condition starting hurt like a truck. Roughly as if you had 3 burn of stacks per second

[Dadnir.5038]

@Odik.4587 said:@Dadnir.5038 Fear does ~1k per second, what 25 might stacks/vulns/6s ?

Fear does around 500 damage without condition damage, with condition damage amulet/rune it goes to your 1k damage and with might/vuln it reach 1500. 6x1500 give you 9k damage. Doe it enlighten you?

[storm.3120]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Odik.4587 said:@Dadnir.5038 Fear does ~1k per second, what 25 might stacks/vulns/6s ?

Fear does around 500 damage without condition damage, with condition damage amulet/rune it goes to your 1k damage and with might/vuln it reach 1500. 6x1500 give you 9k damage. Doe it enlighten you?It doesnt "enlighten" me as OP didnt specify how many ticks he had. Safe to assume necro had condition amulet on roughly at 0 might.Its for sure didnt go through "reducing powercreep" prism.Not every CC should have recieved 0 damage treatment, these which are hard to land in melee range, fear clearly shouldnt do that much damage, it would be too generious to give it even 500 damage with condi amulet.

[Tayga.3192]

@"Odik.4587" said:

Fear does around 500 damage without condition damage, with condition damage amulet/rune it goes to your 1k damage and with might/vuln it reach 1500. 6x1500 give you 9k damage. Doe it enlighten you?It doesnt "enlighten" me as OP didnt specify how many ticks he had. Safe to assume necro had condition amulet on roughly at 0 might.Its for sure didnt go through "reducing powercreep" prism.Not every CC should have recieved 0 damage treatment, these which are hard to land in melee range, fear clearly shouldnt do that much damage, it would be too generious to give it even 500 damage with condi amulet.

I agree, fear is already one of the most disrupting ccs.Should have less damage.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:9k fear damage mean that you've been feared for more than 6 seconds by a necromancer with 25 might stacks while you were under heavy amount of vuln stacks. Cleanse, resistance, stunbreak, condition damage reduction mods, stability could have reduced this amount by quite a lot.

But, let me answer to your concern about terror damage with another question:

Should CC'd characters take damage while they are CC'd?

Denying

Terror

the right to deal damage to the character is the same as denying the right to deal power damage to a stuned character. Now if you believe that a controled character should be freed from the control effect whenever he take damage, I'd 100% agree with you. ANet focus on lasting CCs is spoiling the game. Interupt is great, lasting CCs are just unfun to play against (it's true for fear like it's true for every other lasting CCs).

The point of CC is to set someone up to do damage to them. The CC skill itself shouldn't be doing that much damage.

But the skills that apply fear does not deal much damage. You can say that they set up someone in such a way that terror deal damage to them.

I know it's playing on words but most of the patchs explanations are just word play. Fact is that ANet removed damage from the skills that apply CCs, they did not remove damage from the trait that proc when you CC a foe. Terror proc it's damage when you fear a foe, it doesn't grant damage to the skills that apply fear.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Odik.4587 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Odik.4587 said:@Dadnir.5038 Fear does ~1k per second, what 25 might stacks/vulns/6s ?

Fear does around 500 damage without condition damage, with condition damage amulet/rune it goes to your 1k damage and with might/vuln it reach 1500. 6x1500 give you 9k damage. Doe it enlighten you?It doesnt "enlighten" me as OP didnt specify how many ticks he had. Safe to assume necro had condition amulet on roughly at 0 might.Its for sure didnt go through "reducing powercreep" prism.Not every CC should have recieved 0 damage treatment, these which are hard to land in melee range, fear clearly shouldnt do that much damage, it would be too generious to give it even 500 damage with condi amulet.

Technically, the necromancer had Terror since release so no "powercreep" is involved into this trait. ANet barely touched condition damage with their patch, them not touching terror which is dependant on condition damage isn't surprising.

Contrary to other damaging conditions, terror (not fear) cannot be stacked in intensity and have few sources anyway. Guardian/Elementalist can apply on a short CD up to 4 burn stacks without any investment dealing just as much damage than this single stack of terror (just like mesmer/engineer can apply 7 stacks of confusion even preventing you from attacking) and you feel it should have it's damage halved? What is this? Ranting for the sake of ranting?

Terror give the necromancer roughly the same condi burst than what you can expect from any profession in game. Nothing more, nothing less. Now if what bother you is that it's fear that apply terror damage, sure, make terror apply 3-4 burn stacks or 7 confusion stacks for 3-4 seconds whenever you apply fear instead. Personnally I got no problem with that, but I'm 100% sure that it would set this sub-forum even more on fire.

[Ragnar.4257]

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:9k fear damage mean that you've been feared for more than 6 seconds by a necromancer with 25 might stacks while you were under heavy amount of vuln stacks. Cleanse, resistance, stunbreak, condition damage reduction mods, stability could have reduced this amount by quite a lot.

But, let me answer to your concern about terror damage with another question:

Should CC'd characters take damage while they are CC'd?

Denying

Terror

the right to deal damage to the character is the same as denying the right to deal power damage to a stuned character. Now if you believe that a controled character should be freed from the control effect whenever he take damage, I'd 100% agree with you. ANet focus on lasting CCs is spoiling the game. Interupt is great, lasting CCs are just unfun to play against (it's true for fear like it's true for every other lasting CCs).

The point of CC is to set someone up to do damage to them. The CC skill itself shouldn't be doing that much damage..@Odik.4587 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Let me help you

Counterplay is important

. Skills that have a major impact on an enemy player should allow that player the opportunity to react, which means that we want to avoid instant skills that do

large amounts of damage

or

hard cc

I shouldnt use all my cleanses and breakstuns in panic because I was HARD CC"d

Interesting, there are no instant-cast Fears anymore. It's like that note was already addressed.

And if you're not using your breakstuns when you're hard CC'd, I think I found your problem.Reading is hard. Thats what CMC said in the patch. All hard cc does no damage. Since you cant read/understand that its pointless to talk to you, ciao lad.You are a completely pepega if you breakstun every CC regardless of situation :joy:. Thats clearly not my problem.

You've not understood.

Fear doesn't deal any damage at the point of application. If you immediately stun-break, there is no damage.

This is different to a CC skill that does damage at the point of application, like pre-patch PLB, CttB, Bulls Charge, etc. Which also, these skills, would do damage regardless of whether the target has stability. Again, different to Terror.

Your complaint is equivalent to complaining about a warrior being able to hundred-blades after a bulls-charge.

The follow-up damage is different to the set-up CC.