Hey Anet, where the Thief nerfs at?

[pninak.1069]

you just don't to pay a penalty for using it. they just should have made it like in gw1 where cancelling an entire skill let's the skill go on full cooldown instead of 5 secs. No wonder the game is considered casual with a bunch of tryhards claiming otherwise. I created a thread for this already. I don't see what you lose for doing it. and exploits are exploits. you don't need an argument for it.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@pninak.1069 said:you just don't to pay a penalty for using it. they just should have made it like in gw1 where cancelling an entire skill let's the skill go on full cooldown instead of 5 secs. No wonder the game is considered casual with a bunch of tryhards claiming otherwise. I created a thread for this already. I don't see what you lose for doing it. and exploits are exploits. you don't need an argument for it.

But then there'd be no point, might as well just use the skill no?

[Sobx.1758]

@"pninak.1069" said:you just don't to pay a penalty for using it. they just should have made it like in gw1 where cancelling an entire skill let's the skill go on full cooldown instead of 5 secs. No wonder the game is considered casual with a bunch of tryhards claiming otherwise. I created a thread for this already. I don't see what you lose for doing it. and exploits are exploits. you don't need an argument for it.

Yes, exploits are exploits, I never said otherwise. For now what you're describing is not an exploit. I'm not sure why you're pretending you're asnwering to what I said when you didn't actually address what was in my post, but instead decide to throw vague statements like "exploits are exploits" -how is that related to what I said?

[pninak.1069]

I just seems like people want to deleting the option of a choice to use or not use the skill. If you use the skill and don't cancel it this way you have to live the with the choice. if you cancel it inbetween you don't get punished at all. you wasted the choice to not cast the skill and instead cancelled it during the cast. why should the game favor this behaviour. This is propably one of the reasons powerblock got nerfed to the ground when fighting thief. Because it forced thief to play way more risky than they are used to. But thiefs couldn't adapt to the new gameplay and qqed on the internet.

[Sobx.1758]

@"pninak.1069" said:I just seems like people want to deleting the option of a choice to use or not use the skill. If you use the skill and don't cancel it this way you have to live the with the choice. if you cancel it inbetween you don't get punished at all. you wasted the choice to not cast the skill and instead cancelled it during the cast. why should the game favor this behaviour.

For now that's not how it works in this game and it's not a mechanic limited to a specific class. If you think it's a bug, go create a thread in the bug report section of the forum. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here, but I'm sure it's not "an exploit" just because "you think it shouldn't be like that".Why would game favor this behavior? Because it's not chess, it's gw2.

This is propably one of the reasons powerblock got nerfed to the ground when fighting thief. Because it forced thief to play way more risky than they are used to. But thiefs couldn't adapt to the new gameplay and qqed on the internet.

That's nothing more than your -unsupported with facts- opinion. Again, not sure what you're trying to achieve by writing that.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@pninak.1069 said:It isn't bugged because it is a function. however I think it isn't a feature. You just don't want to play fair. If weapon stowing is locked every classes loses these exploits. so don't try to dodge your importance of it for your gameplay.

Your comment and my first reply was talking about revealed originally, not weapon stowing. I'd appreciate it if you would kindly stop shifting the goalposts and focus on one topic in one conversation, not moving between alleged revealed bugs, one shot builds, alleged exploits in weapon stowing etc.

As for weapon stow tricks, my opinion is pretty much summed up by my signature. Anything that legally gives you an advantage in a fight is fair game, be it terrain, combos, numbers, condis, sneak attacks, anything, which is why I don't really get why you think an accusation of unfair play would mean anything to me given these things are available to all. Using tricks like these used to be a mark of skillful play, if you choose not to use them as you don't think they're fair, then you're handicapping yourself for no reason other than a falsified sense of honour. If it's strong, use it.

As for me, I don't use most of the tricks in your linked video (although I am aware of them, and others) as a large part of my advantage when roaming comes from getting the first attack with a build that counters the other guy, so given I'm usually running my own specialised off meta builds in specific circumstances using templates to swap as needed, build templates are arguably way more important to me.

TLDR: if it's in game, use it. If it's too strong, it'll get nerfed like the staff 3 jump trick did.

@pninak.1069 said:you just don't to pay a penalty for using it. they just should have made it like in gw1 where cancelling an entire skill let's the skill go on full cooldown instead of 5 secs. No wonder the game is considered casual with a bunch of tryhards claiming otherwise. I created a thread for this already. I don't see what you lose for doing it. and exploits are exploits. you don't need an argument for it. Your comments are an exploit. I rest my case :P

[pninak.1069]

by this logic the guy that flies around getting into fortresses without issues is fine too. Because it is ingame even if it needs a lot of ingame hacking to be able to do that. Everyone can do it so it is fine.

Yea I tend to try to get the first attack in combat too, because of the an eye for an eye mentality in wvw.

[kash.9213]

@pninak.1069 said:by this logic the guy that flies around getting into fortresses without issues is fine too. Because it is ingame even if it needs a lot of ingame hacking to be able to do that. Everyone can do it so it is fine.

Yea I tend to try to get the first attack in combat too, because of the an eye for an eye mentality in wvw.

If a dev saw someone flying into a keep they'd do something about that. A dev can stand right next to you in a fight and watch you use weapon stow and they wouldn't care. You're moving the goalpost but you're moving it forward then back then forward then wherever in this thread.

My ping isn't as bad as some players on my server, if I'm able to respond I'm likely going to use a control skill or something instead because I don't spend time doing a bunch of stuff I don't have to do, but those players need to control their unintended skill spam due to lag and there's a real power creep that puts out a lot of flak and quickly full of interrupts and everything else that can make them burn through all their cooldowns if their end is choppy. It's not ideal game mechanics but it's no where near game breaking.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@pninak.1069 said:by this logic the guy that flies around getting into fortresses without issues is fine too. Because it is ingame even if it needs a lot of ingame hacking to be able to do that. Everyone can do it so it is fine.

Yea I tend to try to get the first attack in combat too, because of the an eye for an eye mentality in wvw.

No, it's not. Read my comment again, I said anything that LEGALLY gives you an advantage, in other words anything that exists in game as is. That obviously doesn't mean third party hacks, and you're just creating an obvious strawman by bringing them up.

[Sobx.1758]

@"pninak.1069" said:by this logic the guy that flies around getting into fortresses without issues is fine too. Because it is ingame even if it needs a lot of ingame hacking to be able to do that. Everyone can do it so it is fine.

Yea I tend to try to get the first attack in combat too, because of the an eye for an eye mentality in wvw.

"it's the same even if it needs a lot of ingame hacking to be able to do that". Imagine thinking you're logical when you're comparing a well known ingame mechanic to literal hacks. And we know for a fact that hacking is not desired in the game by the developer. Your "logic" is illogical.

So maybe don't tell me it's somehow "by my logic", when it's clearly not anywhere near to what I've said, thanks.

[lare.5129]

I like it this main post! As for me thief is to much skillable ..so what we need ?1)prop layer can keep good stealth uptime, but normal player get it few seconds, and after that any ranger kill me per fer seconds .. So we need nerf that many button and make one button - keep stealth always., as in other mmo games.2) don't make from thief pdps. So we need nerf p atk, and add more condi, confusion, tournaments.3) remove all combo skills, and nerf more other skill, it to hard, more valid, and empowered rotation 1 1 1 1 to kill everyone.

[kash.9213]

@lare.5129 said:I like it this main post! As for me thief is to much skillable ..so what we need ?1)prop layer can keep good stealth uptime, but normal player get it few seconds, and after that any ranger kill me per fer seconds .. So we need nerf that many button and make one button - keep stealth always., as in other mmo games.2) don't make from thief pdps. So we need nerf p atk, and add more condi, confusion, tournaments.3) remove all combo skills, and nerf more other skill, it to hard, more valid, and empowered rotation 1 1 1 1 to kill everyone.

Jest aside, that kind of thief would basically be a virus.

[pninak.1069]

yea I'd make stealth time shorter in return for a dmg buff and better defense buffs. But anet seems to know that thiefs go perma otherwise they would have buffed the class.

[UNOwen.7132]

@pninak.1069 said:yea I'd make stealth time shorter in return for a dmg buff and better defense buffs. But anet seems to know that thiefs go perma otherwise they would have buffed the class.

Making it just shorter wouldnt work, it would make the already severely underperforming in-combat stealth worse, while likely not affecting out-of-combat stealth enough. Id just give stealth a hard cap for how long you can stay in stealth. Something like, iunno, 6 seconds?

[pninak.1069]

so how would the game register this restriction? you get 3 seconds and on 3rd second you need to apply another effect in order to remain in it. for rifle you need the two dodges to get another 4 seconds. Because of this you don't really stack stealth or it is close to stacks most of the time so a restriction on stacks won't work.

[kash.9213]

@pninak.1069 said:so how would the game register this restriction? you get 3 seconds and on 3rd second you need to apply another effect in order to remain in it. for rifle you need the two dodges to get another 4 seconds. Because of this you don't really stack stealth or it is close to stacks most of the time so a restriction on stacks won't work.

I still like some longer duration stealth for travel in WvW and for masking direction. What I don't need is a long duration stealth to allow me a Stealth Attack past maybe, 4 seconds or whatever we need to be mostly reliable, they can be disabled after that cap and I would have to leave and re-apply stealth and suffer Revealed to unlock Stealth Attacks again. That way, I can't mess around kiting all night and resetting for a safe re-engage with Stealth Attacks, I'd have to burn a Utility like Shadowstep if I want to close the distance and Malicious Backstab or Tactical Strike someone from range.

I'm sure there's flaws all over my take on what might work out but that's roughly what I've always had in mind. I've played other games with stealth and I really wouldn't want to lose how engaging stealth in this game can be.

[MiniMe.1960]

@"Bruticus Fatalfury.3486" said:Rangers are the other class that need a nerf. Seriously how many times are you going to let a ranger immobile someone in a fight and then attempt to burst them down. I got in a small scale fight the other day and managed to clear immobile 3 times(as I run 3 condi clears) immediately followed by longbow 2 (ya i know it's longbow 2 by the damage output,the graphics, and the fact I played a ranger in wvw for 2 years) and still got immobilized 3 more times. I countered the longbow damage with a reflect but six immobilizes in 1 fight..ridiculous! ANET while you may have made some improvements to other classes, to balance the damage, how did these 2 classes simply go untouched? This game has been out now for 7 years and yet it still lacks balance and counter play like so many other MMOs have. Dear ANET..."C'MON MAN!" get it right already. Instead of worrying about developing a new expansion why don't you fix the things that are broken already first?

6 Immobilizes? Are you dishonest or were you both running some bunker build and the fight went over 3minutes +?

[UNOwen.7132]

@pninak.1069 said:so how would the game register this restriction? you get 3 seconds and on 3rd second you need to apply another effect in order to remain in it. for rifle you need the two dodges to get another 4 seconds. Because of this you don't really stack stealth or it is close to stacks most of the time so a restriction on stacks won't work.

Simple, have the buff track the total seconds of stealth obtained, and once you hit 6, you get no more stealth until it runs out.

[pninak.1069]

the 6 immobilizes are propably related to entangle and ancient seed from druid. Not sure if it can attack stealthed stargets, but since it is a pbaoe elite I don't think it needs targeting. ancient seed needs a cc in order to get procced.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@pninak.1069 said:so how would the game register this restriction? you get 3 seconds and on 3rd second you need to apply another effect in order to remain in it. for rifle you need the two dodges to get another 4 seconds. Because of this you don't really stack stealth or it is close to stacks most of the time so a restriction on stacks won't work.

Simple, have the buff track the total seconds of stealth obtained, and once you hit 6, you get no more stealth until it runs out.

Or reapplying stealth just replenishes stealth back to 6 sec, ur using quite a lot of ur global resource to do so seems balanced to me.

[Nemanja.8501]

@jpsssss.7530 said:Real talks, yes they're useless in blobs, but in havoc/small-scale they're the nutz. Thieves have too much defensive capabilities (stealth, evades, mobility, stuns and resets for these) while still maintaining the ability to 100 to 0 most classes before counter play can even happen. No class should have the best defensive abilities in perma-stealth (and the target breaks) and mobility, and the highest spike damage on literally no cooldown.

TL;DR Thief is still too overloaded.

I agree, i was fighting today vs theif as a mesmer and I can say that I am very dissapointed by the recent changes in gw2.

Thief was running away 3 kilometers from me, i was trying to kill him half an hour. What is that?They removed hammer damage from warrior making it almost useless but improved thiefs to fly all over the map.... o.O

[Sobx.1758]

@Nemanja.8501 said:They removed hammer damage from warrior making it almost useless but improved thiefs to fly all over the map.... o.O

How exactly did they improve them?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Nemanja.8501 said:

@jpsssss.7530 said:Real talks, yes they're useless in blobs, but in havoc/small-scale they're the nutz. Thieves have too much defensive capabilities (stealth, evades, mobility, stuns and resets for these) while still maintaining the ability to 100 to 0 most classes before counter play can even happen. No class should have the best defensive abilities in perma-stealth (and the target breaks) and mobility, and the highest spike damage on literally no cooldown.

TL;DR Thief is still too overloaded.

I agree, i was fighting today vs theif as a mesmer and I can say that I am very dissapointed by the recent changes in gw2.

Thief was running away 3 kilometers from me, i was trying to kill him half an hour. What is that?They removed hammer damage from warrior making it almost useless but improved thiefs to fly all over the map.... o.O

I will agree war is weak right now, damage doesnt feel indicative of a warrior class but nor does thiefs burst feel indicative of a burst class, the balance is $hit at the moment and the thief shoulda ran, if both of u are decent neither gonna kill the other cuz both ur dps suck.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@pninak.1069 said:But I find it weird that you ignore that thief stows its weapons midcombat. no other profession abuses it as much not that I am aware of atleast.

Many do, warrior players say hi xd

[MiniMe.1960]

If you can't beat them join them, aaaand collect the SALT