Hey Anet, where the Thief nerfs at?

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Thief actually needs buffs. Remove assassin signet and add the damage into the thiefs skills, lower ini costs not raise so thiefs isn't tethered to trickery traitline. Yeah trickery traitline is taken for other reasons then preparedness but I'd make sense having to give those up if not using the traitline but with ini costs and preparedness along with the rest of the traitline it's almost a must for most builds and it should not be that way for sake of build deversity. Buff pi or make it part of headshots so skillfully interrupting enemies with headshot feel rewarding and change pi to somthing else.Right now the high burst/mobility class can't put a dent into some classes. A thief built for power AND effectiveness bursts for 5-7k back stabs while other tanker classes bursts for 11+k reliably.Yes a mbs full malice and stars aligned boons etc hits for a lot but that does not represent 90% of the rest of the thief class. Nerf that burst down hard and return it to other areas of thief.

You can't lower the ini costs while retaining SA as it is. Thief's be even more broken than pre-patch. I agree something like sword main-hand needs a slight damage raise.

D/p should not be buffed at all, since thief maintains an apt pressure even after backstab. Also, thief still has insta-casts like Steal which should factor in for lower damage overall.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Thief actually needs buffs. Remove assassin signet and add the damage into the thiefs skills, lower ini costs not raise so thiefs isn't tethered to trickery traitline. Yeah trickery traitline is taken for other reasons then preparedness but I'd make sense having to give those up if not using the traitline but with ini costs and preparedness along with the rest of the traitline it's almost a must for most builds and it should not be that way for sake of build deversity. Buff pi or make it part of headshots so skillfully interrupting enemies with headshot feel rewarding and change pi to somthing else.Right now the high burst/mobility class can't put a dent into some classes. A thief built for power AND effectiveness bursts for 5-7k back stabs while other tanker classes bursts for 11+k reliably.Yes a mbs full malice and stars aligned boons etc hits for a lot but that does not represent 90% of the rest of the thief class. Nerf that burst down hard and return it to other areas of thief.

You can't lower the ini costs while retaining SA as it is. Thief's be even more broken than pre-patch. I agree something like sword main-hand needs a slight damage raise.

D/p should not be buffed at all, since thief maintains an apt pressure even after backstab. Also, thief still has insta-casts like Steal which should factor in for lower damage overall.

Lol thief back stab for 5k followed by 300-500 autos isnt high pressure in games current state thsts with maurader and eagle. Hs hits for a lot but again spamming one skill isn't a great playstyle design.Why would lowering ini make thief OP with regards to SA again?As it is all thief but DE need assassin sig to do enough dps to pressure and that shouldn't be the case. Hell even sindrener said he wouldn't be killing anyone without assassin signet as is.I'm sry but u and I have a different opinion on what a burt assassin class looks and plays like lol it shouldn't have to rely on a signet to do respectable bursts lol.My slb burst unsuspecting people in +1's harder and my gs smokescale bursts laughs at thiefs all while enjoying higher hp, armor, protection and 3k barrier with tons of clears lol.It's actually humorous the state this games assassin class is in.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Thief actually needs buffs. Remove assassin signet and add the damage into the thiefs skills, lower ini costs not raise so thiefs isn't tethered to trickery traitline. Yeah trickery traitline is taken for other reasons then preparedness but I'd make sense having to give those up if not using the traitline but with ini costs and preparedness along with the rest of the traitline it's almost a must for most builds and it should not be that way for sake of build deversity. Buff pi or make it part of headshots so skillfully interrupting enemies with headshot feel rewarding and change pi to somthing else.Right now the high burst/mobility class can't put a dent into some classes. A thief built for power AND effectiveness bursts for 5-7k back stabs while other tanker classes bursts for 11+k reliably.Yes a mbs full malice and stars aligned boons etc hits for a lot but that does not represent 90% of the rest of the thief class. Nerf that burst down hard and return it to other areas of thief.

You can't lower the ini costs while retaining SA as it is. Thief's be even more broken than pre-patch. I agree something like sword main-hand needs a slight damage raise.

D/p should not be buffed at all, since thief maintains an apt pressure even after backstab. Also, thief still has insta-casts like Steal which should factor in for lower damage overall.

Lol thief back stab for 5k followed by 300-500 autos isnt high pressure in games current state thsts with maurader and eagle. Hs hits for a lot but again spamming one skill isn't a great playstyle design.Why would lowering ini make thief OP with regards to SA again?As it is all thief but DE need assassin sig to do enough dps to pressure and that shouldn't be the case. Hell even sindrener said he wouldn't be killing anyone without assassin signet as is.I'm sry but u and I have a different opinion on what a burt assassin class looks and plays like lol it shouldn't have to rely on a signet to do respectable bursts lol.My slb burst unsuspecting people in +1's harder and my gs smokescale bursts laughs at thiefs all while enjoying higher hp, armor, protection and 3k barrier with tons of clears lol.It's actually humorous the state this games assassin class is in.

But Heartseeker into backstab is ~10k damage from 1.2k range, without any real warning. That's insane +1 pressure.

Also, you have to factor in the attack speed of a weapon set, not just the damage per hit ratio. Beefed up (signet + traits) dagger main hits for a lot more than 300 per hit.

Using smokescale on SLB is wrong, Bambi is better. Smokie doesn't burst at all.

[kash.9213]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Thief actually needs buffs. Remove assassin signet and add the damage into the thiefs skills, lower ini costs not raise so thiefs isn't tethered to trickery traitline. Yeah trickery traitline is taken for other reasons then preparedness but I'd make sense having to give those up if not using the traitline but with ini costs and preparedness along with the rest of the traitline it's almost a must for most builds and it should not be that way for sake of build deversity. Buff pi or make it part of headshots so skillfully interrupting enemies with headshot feel rewarding and change pi to somthing else.Right now the high burst/mobility class can't put a dent into some classes. A thief built for power AND effectiveness bursts for 5-7k back stabs while other tanker classes bursts for 11+k reliably.Yes a mbs full malice and stars aligned boons etc hits for a lot but that does not represent 90% of the rest of the thief class. Nerf that burst down hard and return it to other areas of thief.

You can't lower the ini costs while retaining SA as it is. Thief's be even more broken than pre-patch. I agree something like sword main-hand needs a slight damage raise.

D/p should not be buffed at all, since thief maintains an apt pressure even after backstab. Also, thief still has insta-casts like Steal which should factor in for lower damage overall.

Lol thief back stab for 5k followed by 300-500 autos isnt high pressure in games current state thsts with maurader and eagle. Hs hits for a lot but again spamming one skill isn't a great playstyle design.Why would lowering ini make thief OP with regards to SA again?As it is all thief but DE need assassin sig to do enough dps to pressure and that shouldn't be the case. Hell even sindrener said he wouldn't be killing anyone without assassin signet as is.I'm sry but u and I have a different opinion on what a burt assassin class looks and plays like lol it shouldn't have to rely on a signet to do respectable bursts lol.My slb burst unsuspecting people in +1's harder and my gs smokescale bursts laughs at thiefs all while enjoying higher hp, armor, protection and 3k barrier with tons of clears lol.It's actually humorous the state this games assassin class is in.

But Heartseeker into backstab is ~10k damage from 1.2k range, without any real warning. That's insane +1 pressure.

Also, you have to factor in the attack speed of a weapon set, not just the damage per hit ratio. Beefed up (signet + traits) dagger main hits for a lot more than 300 per hit.

Using smokescale on SLB is wrong, Bambi is better. Smokie doesn't burst at all.

If there was insane pressure after a backstab why do people complain about thieves resetting all the time, you just pressure someone into submission and then....go away real quick? People need to start keeping their thief complaints in an organized folder. Half of peoples complaints about this class will be about a list of things and the other half of their complaints will contradict everything they complained about earlier.

[UNOwen.7132]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Thief actually needs buffs. Remove assassin signet and add the damage into the thiefs skills, lower ini costs not raise so thiefs isn't tethered to trickery traitline. Yeah trickery traitline is taken for other reasons then preparedness but I'd make sense having to give those up if not using the traitline but with ini costs and preparedness along with the rest of the traitline it's almost a must for most builds and it should not be that way for sake of build deversity. Buff pi or make it part of headshots so skillfully interrupting enemies with headshot feel rewarding and change pi to somthing else.Right now the high burst/mobility class can't put a dent into some classes. A thief built for power AND effectiveness bursts for 5-7k back stabs while other tanker classes bursts for 11+k reliably.Yes a mbs full malice and stars aligned boons etc hits for a lot but that does not represent 90% of the rest of the thief class. Nerf that burst down hard and return it to other areas of thief.

You can't lower the ini costs while retaining SA as it is. Thief's be even more broken than pre-patch. I agree something like sword main-hand needs a slight damage raise.

D/p should not be buffed at all, since thief maintains an apt pressure even after backstab. Also, thief still has insta-casts like Steal which should factor in for lower damage overall.

Lol thief back stab for 5k followed by 300-500 autos isnt high pressure in games current state thsts with maurader and eagle. Hs hits for a lot but again spamming one skill isn't a great playstyle design.Why would lowering ini make thief OP with regards to SA again?As it is all thief but DE need assassin sig to do enough dps to pressure and that shouldn't be the case. Hell even sindrener said he wouldn't be killing anyone without assassin signet as is.I'm sry but u and I have a different opinion on what a burt assassin class looks and plays like lol it shouldn't have to rely on a signet to do respectable bursts lol.My slb burst unsuspecting people in +1's harder and my gs smokescale bursts laughs at thiefs all while enjoying higher hp, armor, protection and 3k barrier with tons of clears lol.It's actually humorous the state this games assassin class is in.

But Heartseeker into backstab is ~10k damage from 1.2k range, without any real warning. That's insane +1 pressure.

Also, you have to factor in the attack speed of a weapon set, not just the damage per hit ratio. Beefed up (signet + traits) dagger main hits for a lot more than 300 per hit.

Using smokescale on SLB is wrong, Bambi is better. Smokie doesn't burst at all.

Uh, no, Heartseeker into backstab is 7k, and its got a lot of warning, since you have to use black powder first then heartseeker, and hope the opponent doesnt turn around to face you so that your backstab hits for half damage (at which point you do 5k). And sure, its decent +1 pressure, but other classes can pressure way harder than that. Thieves advantage in +1s is that while theyre worse at doing the +1ing itself, their mobility allows them to get into position much more easily.

Even then, daggers autoattacks hit for pretty pathetic amounts of damage.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@kash.9213 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Thief actually needs buffs. Remove assassin signet and add the damage into the thiefs skills, lower ini costs not raise so thiefs isn't tethered to trickery traitline. Yeah trickery traitline is taken for other reasons then preparedness but I'd make sense having to give those up if not using the traitline but with ini costs and preparedness along with the rest of the traitline it's almost a must for most builds and it should not be that way for sake of build deversity. Buff pi or make it part of headshots so skillfully interrupting enemies with headshot feel rewarding and change pi to somthing else.Right now the high burst/mobility class can't put a dent into some classes. A thief built for power AND effectiveness bursts for 5-7k back stabs while other tanker classes bursts for 11+k reliably.Yes a mbs full malice and stars aligned boons etc hits for a lot but that does not represent 90% of the rest of the thief class. Nerf that burst down hard and return it to other areas of thief.

You can't lower the ini costs while retaining SA as it is. Thief's be even more broken than pre-patch. I agree something like sword main-hand needs a slight damage raise.

D/p should not be buffed at all, since thief maintains an apt pressure even after backstab. Also, thief still has insta-casts like Steal which should factor in for lower damage overall.

Lol thief back stab for 5k followed by 300-500 autos isnt high pressure in games current state thsts with maurader and eagle. Hs hits for a lot but again spamming one skill isn't a great playstyle design.Why would lowering ini make thief OP with regards to SA again?As it is all thief but DE need assassin sig to do enough dps to pressure and that shouldn't be the case. Hell even sindrener said he wouldn't be killing anyone without assassin signet as is.I'm sry but u and I have a different opinion on what a burt assassin class looks and plays like lol it shouldn't have to rely on a signet to do respectable bursts lol.My slb burst unsuspecting people in +1's harder and my gs smokescale bursts laughs at thiefs all while enjoying higher hp, armor, protection and 3k barrier with tons of clears lol.It's actually humorous the state this games assassin class is in.

But Heartseeker into backstab is ~10k damage from 1.2k range, without any real warning. That's insane +1 pressure.

Also, you have to factor in the attack speed of a weapon set, not just the damage per hit ratio. Beefed up (signet + traits) dagger main hits for a lot more than 300 per hit.

Using smokescale on SLB is wrong, Bambi is better. Smokie doesn't burst at all.

If there was insane pressure after a backstab why do people complain about thieves resetting all the time, you just pressure someone into submission and then....go away real quick? People need to start keeping their thief complaints in an organized folder. Half of peoples complaints about this class will be about a list of things and the other half of their complaints will contradict everything they complained about earlier.

Because like there are classes that are too good at offense right now, there are classes that are simply too tanky as well.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Thief actually needs buffs. Remove assassin signet and add the damage into the thiefs skills, lower ini costs not raise so thiefs isn't tethered to trickery traitline. Yeah trickery traitline is taken for other reasons then preparedness but I'd make sense having to give those up if not using the traitline but with ini costs and preparedness along with the rest of the traitline it's almost a must for most builds and it should not be that way for sake of build deversity. Buff pi or make it part of headshots so skillfully interrupting enemies with headshot feel rewarding and change pi to somthing else.Right now the high burst/mobility class can't put a dent into some classes. A thief built for power AND effectiveness bursts for 5-7k back stabs while other tanker classes bursts for 11+k reliably.Yes a mbs full malice and stars aligned boons etc hits for a lot but that does not represent 90% of the rest of the thief class. Nerf that burst down hard and return it to other areas of thief.

You can't lower the ini costs while retaining SA as it is. Thief's be even more broken than pre-patch. I agree something like sword main-hand needs a slight damage raise.

D/p should not be buffed at all, since thief maintains an apt pressure even after backstab. Also, thief still has insta-casts like Steal which should factor in for lower damage overall.

Lol thief back stab for 5k followed by 300-500 autos isnt high pressure in games current state thsts with maurader and eagle. Hs hits for a lot but again spamming one skill isn't a great playstyle design.Why would lowering ini make thief OP with regards to SA again?As it is all thief but DE need assassin sig to do enough dps to pressure and that shouldn't be the case. Hell even sindrener said he wouldn't be killing anyone without assassin signet as is.I'm sry but u and I have a different opinion on what a burt assassin class looks and plays like lol it shouldn't have to rely on a signet to do respectable bursts lol.My slb burst unsuspecting people in +1's harder and my gs smokescale bursts laughs at thiefs all while enjoying higher hp, armor, protection and 3k barrier with tons of clears lol.It's actually humorous the state this games assassin class is in.

But Heartseeker into backstab is ~10k damage from 1.2k range, without any real warning. That's insane +1 pressure.

Also, you have to factor in the attack speed of a weapon set, not just the damage per hit ratio. Beefed up (signet + traits) dagger main hits for a lot more than 300 per hit.

Using smokescale on SLB is wrong, Bambi is better. Smokie doesn't burst at all.

Lol if blocks, invulnerability, stunbrskes etc etc didnt exist and also with maurader and eagle u have 60% crit and 80ish after a steal. We've all hit back stabs and HS with high crit dps but we all sometimes don't and it's not 100% all the time crit chance. Sometimes I'll backstab for 2500-3000k on a power build and sometimes 5200 on back stab and another 5k on HS if the take both hits, it's not 100% high crit hits every time especially when the class DOES have defenses to negate it or a lot of it, barriers etc. Not to mention multiple ways to easily and quickly reheal to full. Try back stab hs a good fb,scrapper, weaver,holo,sustain built ranger in a 1v1 scenario etc lol see how high burst high reward it is. If they don't out right negate it the still have plenty of hp at the end and oops re heal and regenerate back to full hp easy peasy lol and can burst u as hard and don't need to disengage lol.Mbs can burst massive damage full mal. And a DE built for full damage has good range pressure but is dust if caught. Rest of thief though doesn't share that pressure.Think about it. If one of the best known or best known thief players thinks he wouldn't kill anyone without being chained to assassin signet damage boost that should point to a issue to thief and DD base damage numbers and burst potential. Imagine another class having to require a damage utility skill being chosen to be able to deal competitive damage with other classes even when built for full damage and on top it's soposed to be a high mobility high burst class lol.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Thief actually needs buffs. Remove assassin signet and add the damage into the thiefs skills, lower ini costs not raise so thiefs isn't tethered to trickery traitline. Yeah trickery traitline is taken for other reasons then preparedness but I'd make sense having to give those up if not using the traitline but with ini costs and preparedness along with the rest of the traitline it's almost a must for most builds and it should not be that way for sake of build deversity. Buff pi or make it part of headshots so skillfully interrupting enemies with headshot feel rewarding and change pi to somthing else.Right now the high burst/mobility class can't put a dent into some classes. A thief built for power AND effectiveness bursts for 5-7k back stabs while other tanker classes bursts for 11+k reliably.Yes a mbs full malice and stars aligned boons etc hits for a lot but that does not represent 90% of the rest of the thief class. Nerf that burst down hard and return it to other areas of thief.

You can't lower the ini costs while retaining SA as it is. Thief's be even more broken than pre-patch. I agree something like sword main-hand needs a slight damage raise.

D/p should not be buffed at all, since thief maintains an apt pressure even after backstab. Also, thief still has insta-casts like Steal which should factor in for lower damage overall.

Lol thief back stab for 5k followed by 300-500 autos isnt high pressure in games current state thsts with maurader and eagle. Hs hits for a lot but again spamming one skill isn't a great playstyle design.Why would lowering ini make thief OP with regards to SA again?As it is all thief but DE need assassin sig to do enough dps to pressure and that shouldn't be the case. Hell even sindrener said he wouldn't be killing anyone without assassin signet as is.I'm sry but u and I have a different opinion on what a burt assassin class looks and plays like lol it shouldn't have to rely on a signet to do respectable bursts lol.My slb burst unsuspecting people in +1's harder and my gs smokescale bursts laughs at thiefs all while enjoying higher hp, armor, protection and 3k barrier with tons of clears lol.It's actually humorous the state this games assassin class is in.

But Heartseeker into backstab is ~10k damage from 1.2k range, without any real warning. That's insane +1 pressure.

Also, you have to factor in the attack speed of a weapon set, not just the damage per hit ratio. Beefed up (signet + traits) dagger main hits for a lot more than 300 per hit.

Using smokescale on SLB is wrong, Bambi is better. Smokie doesn't burst at all.

Uh, no, Heartseeker into backstab is 7k, and its got a lot of warning, since you have to use black powder first then heartseeker, and hope the opponent doesnt turn around to face you so that your backstab hits for half damage (at which point you do 5k). And sure, its decent +1 pressure, but other classes can pressure

way

harder than that. Thieves advantage in +1s is that while theyre worse at doing the +1ing itself, their mobility allows them to get into position much more easily.

Even then, daggers autoattacks hit for pretty pathetic amounts of damage.

I think he means after a stealth backstab u can immediately HS the often times feared opponent (sa) which can give u 10k damage for sure but that's if the opponent doesn't negate it with their defense capabilities. Also unless ur traiting hidden killer or stealing before even with building towards crit chance sometimes u get the dreaded 2500 back stab and 1+k HS LOL even on power build.That's all with assassin signet popped.I've seen my follow dagger autos hitting 300 reliably and odd occasion low 1000' built for power and assassin sig popped. Again that's not pressure unless ur +1ing and ur ally is actually providing real.pressure lol. No good player like a guard or fb is dying to backstabs and definitely aren't letting more than one thru in the same fight

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Thief actually needs buffs. Remove assassin signet and add the damage into the thiefs skills, lower ini costs not raise so thiefs isn't tethered to trickery traitline. Yeah trickery traitline is taken for other reasons then preparedness but I'd make sense having to give those up if not using the traitline but with ini costs and preparedness along with the rest of the traitline it's almost a must for most builds and it should not be that way for sake of build deversity. Buff pi or make it part of headshots so skillfully interrupting enemies with headshot feel rewarding and change pi to somthing else.Right now the high burst/mobility class can't put a dent into some classes. A thief built for power AND effectiveness bursts for 5-7k back stabs while other tanker classes bursts for 11+k reliably.Yes a mbs full malice and stars aligned boons etc hits for a lot but that does not represent 90% of the rest of the thief class. Nerf that burst down hard and return it to other areas of thief.

You can't lower the ini costs while retaining SA as it is. Thief's be even more broken than pre-patch. I agree something like sword main-hand needs a slight damage raise.

D/p should not be buffed at all, since thief maintains an apt pressure even after backstab. Also, thief still has insta-casts like Steal which should factor in for lower damage overall.

Lol thief back stab for 5k followed by 300-500 autos isnt high pressure in games current state thsts with maurader and eagle. Hs hits for a lot but again spamming one skill isn't a great playstyle design.Why would lowering ini make thief OP with regards to SA again?As it is all thief but DE need assassin sig to do enough dps to pressure and that shouldn't be the case. Hell even sindrener said he wouldn't be killing anyone without assassin signet as is.I'm sry but u and I have a different opinion on what a burt assassin class looks and plays like lol it shouldn't have to rely on a signet to do respectable bursts lol.My slb burst unsuspecting people in +1's harder and my gs smokescale bursts laughs at thiefs all while enjoying higher hp, armor, protection and 3k barrier with tons of clears lol.It's actually humorous the state this games assassin class is in.

But Heartseeker into backstab is ~10k damage from 1.2k range, without any real warning. That's insane +1 pressure.

Also, you have to factor in the attack speed of a weapon set, not just the damage per hit ratio. Beefed up (signet + traits) dagger main hits for a lot more than 300 per hit.

Using smokescale on SLB is wrong, Bambi is better. Smokie doesn't burst at all.

If there was insane pressure after a backstab why do people complain about thieves resetting all the time, you just pressure someone into submission and then....go away real quick? People need to start keeping their thief complaints in an organized folder. Half of peoples complaints about this class will be about a list of things and the other half of their complaints will contradict everything they complained about earlier.

Because like there are classes that are too good at offense right now, there are classes that are simply too tanky as well.

But any class that needs buffs or is a bad spot would fall into this as well as to why their weak no?U can say don't buff thief nerf others or buff thief and don't nerf others but one of those needs to happen for the state of the class to change. Sustain and hp didnt really change much, hp at all but dps nerfed hard even on skills that already hit like noodles leaving them in a really bad spot compared to the sustain of others. Hitting most classes with daggers even with assassin sig popped feels silly for a assassin class lol unless it's one of two skills which is sad and promotes spammy linear gameplay which isn't a good path to shoot for.

[Sobx.1758]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Except, Thieves cant 100-0

any

class anymore (other than maybe Glass Zerker Ele and thief, but the former isnt a real build, the latter is just thief killing thief, which is fine), stealth is terrible at defensive play, and thieves defensive capabilities are low. Theyre good at running away. Not good at surviving. Get rid of the permastealth thing (its not broken, it never was, but boy is it stupid and shouldnt exist), but otherwise? Soulbeast, Warrior, even FB are still better roaming specs.

Low defensive capabilities lmao. Spam blind, spam stealth and evade. Thief needs nerfs, they need to lose access to one of these at the same time. DE is one of the safest, dumbest builds right now, and d/p could use some tone down too in the blind spam department.

First of all "spam" blind. The cheapest access thief has to blind is Shadowshot. You get 3 blinds, and then you have to wait for over 8 seconds for the next one. Dunno about you, but I dont call that "spam", or even particularly good for defense. "Spam stealth" stealth is even less accessible, and more importantly,

terrible

for defense. If you stealth up against me, I will abuse that and hit you for tons of free damage. "Spam Evade", first of all, a thief that stealths up a lot has only 2 evades other than his basic dodge. Withdraw, and Daggertstorm. Thats

even further

from "spamming". Second, even the builds that evade a lot, still dont even come close to what Weaver can do survivability-wise.

Hah, not even

close

. DE is extremely unsafe. There is a reason its a joke in 2v2, and a +1 build that runs away as soon as someone turns on them in 5v5 (where its also kind of a joke, but I digress). And as for blind "spam", see above.

Stealth is

terrible

for defense and aggro break, you heard it here first, folks.

Because it is, short duration stealth by itself has hardly any defensive value.And what exactly do you mean by "aggro break"? That the moment you use stealth your enemy forgets about you? What is this, pve thread?

just biased rambling

Ironic.

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:From my experience, thief is almost universally back to being a "solid +1'er, seldom duelist". Which is, honestly, a bit disappointing.

So strong that it's still just a solid +1er?

It's a great example of a low-risk, high reward build that I immensely detest about thief. Funnily enough, I thought necro mains were the most biased bunch here.

Oof. Funnily enough you seem to not understand that stealth isn't a strong defensive skill like you're trying to claim and the majority of "this is bullkitten" feeling (while "playing it" as well as "against it") comes from the stacking duration, not the actual mechanic itself.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

nvm ...love and joy

[PLS.4095]

Complain about the worst duelist class and the worst teamfighter class.

An other L2P issu.

The title should be : Thief need up !

[Karthus.9021]

also half the utilites are usless like i have to jump to use scopion wire and the 3 seconds arming for traps..... when DH can kill me with 2 to 3 traps.... i have played against a ranger that i cleansed immob with like 3 times and i could not for the love of me get away in WvW. i understand i didnt build to counter immob. as a theif even before patch i couldnt one shot. i have had a warrior 2 shot me and i had 20k health in sPVP i mean i brain laged but it was like 3 secs lol

[Karthus.9021]

we dont have as much defense as u think stealth is not a devence the reason i survive with SA is cus of life siphon not cuz of stealth i have to deal damage to sustain.... yea op right. we have nothing but dodging and stealth that is all the defence we have... do we have protection resistance? no SA and acro is stealth and dodge think about DE and DD stealth and dodge like give us somthing else and we will using it as min maxers that love the class tho its mostly touture we work with wat we have cuz we have no choice cuz that are our option so yea take away some stealth and dodge but give up some protection and defence buffs and we wont have to resort to one dimension gameplay because that was what was given to us. we like the concept of the class but not what percived brokenness it has... those who actually play theif are punished hard and actually have to practise more than the average play to actually be good so when u get downed by a theif in a 1v1 its cuz he practised and died alot by faceroller classes to be able to survive sure we can reroll but the point is we actually get a rush when we actually win cuz this class can be torture to play at times.....

[Bruticus Fatalfury.3486]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 I don't rage quit . I adapt and overcome. It doesn't take a genius to copy a build they find on metabuilds and use it. It does however take some intelligence to create your own build to beat it, which I can say problem resolved

@kash.9213 don't worry I have revised my build and it kills rangers quickly. Those of us who are smart and are vet wvw players find ways to adapt and overcome

[kash.9213]

@Bruticus Fatalfury.3486 said:@Jugglemonkey.8741 I don't rage quit . I adapt and overcome. It doesn't take a genius to copy a build they find on metabuilds and use it. It does however take some intelligence to create your own build to beat it, which I can say problem resolved

@kash.9213 don't worry I have revised my build and it kills rangers quickly. Those of us who are smart and are vet wvw players find ways to adapt and overcome

That's a good approach to take. I have to say I have seen a broader range of builds or trait, modifier, and stat choices lately and it's been fun to stretch out against some stuff I wont be entirely ready for. There are some builds that are just broken or parts of builds that might be too top or bottom heavy like an opening sequence or something, If you see a dev in WvW maybe grab one of those builds and hit them up with it.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Bruticus Fatalfury.3486 said:@Jugglemonkey.8741 I don't rage quit . I adapt and overcome. It doesn't take a genius to copy a build they find on metabuilds and use it. It does however take some intelligence to create your own build to beat it, which I can say problem resolved

@kash.9213 don't worry I have revised my build and it kills rangers quickly. Those of us who are smart and are vet wvw players find ways to adapt and overcome

It's fine, I was mostly being sarcastic :P

[Opal.9324]

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I haven't run into any thieves like the ones you describe since the balance update. Sure, the good ones can be annoying to fight, but they are far from needing nerfs. Btw, if you're having trouble fighting a class, try playing that class for a few days. It's the best way to learn their strengths and weaknesses.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@UNOwen.7132 said:Even then, daggers autoattacks hit for pretty pathetic amounts of damage.

Thief right now really is pathetic...and people still complain about it? These players must really be kittens.

All i do is auto-attack around me on my reaper...and thief dies while their in stealth in a few seconds, and denies them their damage...really its super sad what happened to them and they should just DELETE the forums to stop this nonsense.

[stealthy.4506]

another nerf thief thread, they all sound so similar to a point that I started to think people got paid to give such claim based on specific guild line. show us something new please.
Only the worst of the worst with 500ms ping will get frustrated by thief skill.
Evade is a joke as other class can make ground full of red circle. Stealth will only work if you have IQ of a game AI. Teleport ? just pin a thief down teleport can bring them nowhere.thief also has limited condition clean while only class spread conditions like they are auto attack. not to mention all the damage ignoring buff to make thief attack like a bite of mosquito.complaint something else please, we are snoring.

[Kodama.6453]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Even then, daggers autoattacks hit for pretty pathetic amounts of damage.

Thief right now really is pathetic...and people still complain about it? These players must really be kittens.

All i do is auto-attack around me on my reaper...and thief dies while their in stealth in a few seconds, and denies them their damage...really its super sad what happened to them and they should just DELETE the forums to stop this nonsense.

Thief, just like mesmer, is a class that will always get hate, even if they are statistically underpowered.

Because these classes are built around mechanics which are usually considered "unfun" to play against by other players. Instant mobility (blinks), denying the enemy hitting you through evades, going into stealth, which gives some players the "unfair" feeling since the thief has more information about the fight that is going on than them. Mesmer also has the clones which are cluttering the screen and makes it a "guessing game" for inattentive players.

Accept it, it doesn't matter if these classes are weak or not. As long as they are using these mechanics, people will complain.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Even then, daggers autoattacks hit for pretty pathetic amounts of damage.

Thief right now really is pathetic...and people still complain about it? These players must really be kittens.

All i do is auto-attack around me on my reaper...and thief dies while their in stealth in a few seconds, and denies them their damage...really its super sad what happened to them and they should just DELETE the forums to stop this nonsense.

Thief, just like mesmer, is a class that will always get hate, even if they are statistically underpowered.

Because these classes are built around mechanics which are usually considered "unfun" to play against by other players. Instant mobility (blinks), denying the enemy hitting you through evades, going into stealth, which gives some players the an "unfair" feeling since the thief has more information about the fight that is going on than them. Mesmer also has the clones which are cluttering the screen and makes it a "guessing game" for inattentive players.

Accept it, it doesn't matter if these classes are weak or not. As long as they are using these mechanics, people will complain.

This 100%^

[Yasai.3549]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Even then, daggers autoattacks hit for pretty pathetic amounts of damage.

Thief right now really is pathetic...and people still complain about it? These players must really be kittens.

All i do is auto-attack around me on my reaper...and thief dies while their in stealth in a few seconds, and denies them their damage...really its super sad what happened to them and they should just DELETE the forums to stop this nonsense.

Thief, just like mesmer, is a class that will always get hate, even if they are statistically underpowered.

Because these classes are built around mechanics which are usually considered "unfun" to play against by other players. Instant mobility (blinks), denying the enemy hitting you through evades, going into stealth, which gives some players the an "unfair" feeling since the thief has more information about the fight that is going on than them. Mesmer also has the clones which are cluttering the screen and makes it a "guessing game" for inattentive players.

Accept it, it doesn't matter if these classes are weak or not. As long as they are using these mechanics, people will complain.

This 100%^

Thieves can do 0 damage but still be played and still be used because of their entire kit.

In PvP, in an ideal setting, a Thief won't even fight : they just run laps around the map and decap stuff and let their team group up and roflstomp anyone they come across contesting or capping.

In WvW, they will just run around, hide in keeps, hide in towers, portal people in, shortbow 5 spam away, stealth endlessly.

Are they actually killing anyone? No.But they win by default just because of their kit being so good at moving around.

Maybe one day there will be a by-kill-scoring sort of competitive mode where Thief will shine less when groups of players try to fight, because while Thief can +1 well, it just takes a moment of focus fire to bring them down and make them entirely useless.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Even then, daggers autoattacks hit for pretty pathetic amounts of damage.

Thief right now really is pathetic...and people still complain about it? These players must really be kittens.

All i do is auto-attack around me on my reaper...and thief dies while their in stealth in a few seconds, and denies them their damage...really its super sad what happened to them and they should just DELETE the forums to stop this nonsense.

Thief, just like mesmer, is a class that will always get hate, even if they are statistically underpowered.

Because these classes are built around mechanics which are usually considered "unfun" to play against by other players. Instant mobility (blinks), denying the enemy hitting you through evades, going into stealth, which gives some players the an "unfair" feeling since the thief has more information about the fight that is going on than them. Mesmer also has the clones which are cluttering the screen and makes it a "guessing game" for inattentive players.

Accept it, it doesn't matter if these classes are weak or not. As long as they are using these mechanics, people will complain.

This 100%^

Thieves can do 0 damage but still be played and still be used because of their entire kit.

In PvP, in an ideal setting, a Thief won't even fight : they just run laps around the map and decap stuff and let their team group up and roflstomp anyone they come across contesting or capping.

In WvW, they will just run around, hide in keeps, hide in towers, portal people in, shortbow 5 spam away, stealth endlessly.

Are they actually killing anyone? No.But they win by default just because of their kit being so good at moving around.

Maybe one day there will be a by-kill-scoring sort of competitive mode where Thief will shine less when groups of players try to fight, because while Thief can +1 well, it just takes a moment of focus fire to bring them down and make them entirely useless.

Yeah but that's not a playstyle that should be forced on any class, to not fight that's boring for most. Thief has pic of pop culture ninjas throughout its traits and uses thier tools ie caltrops,paper smoke bombs etc, thief may be called thief but its tool,skills and playstyle mirror assassin and to do the damage it does is pathetic. Anets team listens far to much to a playerbase instead of realizing that that class archetype will get nerf cries even when weak asf.

[UfoCoffee.2084]

@"jpsssss.7530" said:Top kek. People assuming I have paper armor. My lowest is 2600-ish. Cool a thief cant 100 to 0 me, but i'm at like a quarter health or less before i can react to anything so to quote The Rock, "it it it it doesn't matter". And even then y'all are missing the fact that thief still has a crapton of mobility stealth while still having its insane damage. There is no rock paper scissors in this. That implies there's reasonable counter play. When every class has a reliable AOE reveal on a reasonable cooldown, and dead-eye cant remove revealed status, then you can MAYBE start talking about counter play.

You sound like a bad player.