Bring Infuse Light in line

[Chungo.3169]

@Shao.7236 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Buran.3796 said:

@FrownyClown.8402 said:If 1 heal skill is what is holding up revenant it's probably too strong. No one complained about it pre patch though which makes me think it's the combination of mallyx and glint that makes their sustain too high

How is Infused Light (which has a clear call and only works on dummies) broken if is only present in one of the multiple builds that are being used? How can be Infused Light a problem except to bots which can't stop spamming attacks? Is like people advisedly entering in a Scourge shade: you known what you shouldn't do when you hear the whistle. Is broken the chess pawn because can be promoted to be a queen if reaches the 8th line? Or is fault of the adversary for not preventing it?read this:@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@"Aeolus.3615" said:

All that OP needs to do is wait 3 seconds and he/she can get back to atack

...... more eyes less key bashing id say.Thank you for the advice but If only it was that simple....What most of you don t understand is that

NOT ALL ATTACKS CAN BE STOWED

. Condi, pets, spirits, turrets, wells, clones/phantasm, necro's marks, guard's symbols, traps. Basically

everything that is not direct/no delay, power damage CAN T BE CANCELLED

.Now, what do you think? Am I still a "dummy" or a spamming bot?Neither nor! But you don't get the intention. Infuse light is a situational heal. It's not just "I press a button and get a heal". It has to be used under certain conditions to be effective. That's tricky for a heal skill which has to be ready on demand as you can not "plan" to use a heal at a certain point in the encounter. It depends on what your target does.

Infuse light has drawbacks and strenghs like every other heal in the game too. There are heals on low cooldowns that heal only for a small amount or only over time. Then there are strong heals that have huge cooldowns or that weaken yourself. Infuse Light (and the warior stance heal too) are heals that can be strong in one scenario but extremely weak in another scenario. This is balanced. It would not be balanced if a spec that has tons of condi cleanses would also get the best anti condi heal on top. But exactly the opposite is the case with herald.

Do you also complain about consume conditions (the necro heal that is strong against conditions)? That skill can heal you for 12k HP when it cleanses a condibomb. But it has a huge cast time and telegraph as drawback.

Infuse light is not even good as an invunerability that covers a burst because the revenant will usually stop attacking to invite the target to attack to heal the rev. If the rev casts infuse light while attacking, then he risks that the targets switches into defense and does no damage at all to the rev, which wastes infuse light. So most of the time infuse light is just 3 seconds where nothing happens. The rev asks for damage and the target stows his weapon.

Only repeating one side of the story like always. Also a good Revenant doesn't stop attacking because a good Revenant wouldn't wait until he has no health to get a full free heal and that's where the problem lies which everyone defending the skill denies, bad plays and taking for granted the potential to get a full heal where has it's not supposed to happen all the time.

Nothing stops you from Legend swapping and do anything else while you are under effect of Infuse Light for people to retaliate.Nothing stops you from waiting the burst while people try to tickle and avoiding doing too much healing as the indication is up.

It's the user fault for trying to maximize Infuse Light and it's the user fault for not taking advantage of the position it puts them in to show you can reverse damage anytime.

Infuse Light last too long as of currently and needs a reduction so that conditions are no longer as favored. Compensating for the duration nerf, would be giving the base heal a bigger number then everything will be fine it's no longer ezpz free full heals in favor of conditions and power will still be able to heal as much because of spikes.

If you are to tell me that conditions will still melt the user afterwards then I'll just have to repeat every single possible mass cleanses Revenants have at their disposal.

Dude, you've already been calling everyone noobs, they should report you for disrespect XD You say you are main rev and you don't even know those who give their opinion and are good rev revs. Okay, I've been playing rev 4.5 years, 13000+ calves but I'm a bad noob in rev, Buran too right? Nerf it plz as it counteracts your construction berk-jalis-shiro ... Even explaining step by step how to counter, and why it is not OP you understand. Good luck with your nerf tryhard and your credibility. Postscript: The engi ADE cure can heal 16k just for taking a hit (if a single hit) at the right time, and cleans others 5 condi. Why don't you ask for nerf?

[Zephoid.4263]

Because AED is significantly more conditional. instant cast vs 3/4 means it can be interrupted. Damage needs to kill you, so has to be activated at low hp (see problem with interuption). Condi needs to kill you, not just damage you after your 4k heal. If the condis just put you to 1000 hp, you don't get anything else. Allied healing fucks this skill up hard too.

None of this applies to Infuse light. In fact, almost all of the drawbacks of AED are not present in IL. At worst, IL is a 3s invuln with ability to act. Thats already one of the strongest forms of defense in the game. Almost all other 3s invuln has been nerfed heavily at this point. Even ele's Fortify on earth shield got nerfed recently to be a full duration channel.

[KrHome.1920]

@"Zephoid.4263" said:None of this applies to Infuse light. In fact, almost all of the drawbacks of AED are not present in IL. At worst, IL is a 3s invuln with ability to act. Thats already one of the strongest forms of defense in the game. Almost all other 3s invuln has been nerfed heavily at this point. Even ele's Fortify on earth shield got nerfed recently to be a full duration channel.

3s of invuln is nothing after the balance patch. The increased TTK weakend infuse light in its general utility (less pressure when used offensively and less heal when used defensively). And even before the patch that heal could be hardcountered by a simple 3s block when used offensively.

All that "can be used while attacking" is nice, when you don't care about losing your healing skill. Maybe you are that good, that you don't need a healing skill and 3s of invulnerable attacking grant you a 100% win rate.

[Shao.7236]

@Chungo.3169 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Buran.3796 said:

@FrownyClown.8402 said:If 1 heal skill is what is holding up revenant it's probably too strong. No one complained about it pre patch though which makes me think it's the combination of mallyx and glint that makes their sustain too high

How is Infused Light (which has a clear call and only works on dummies) broken if is only present in one of the multiple builds that are being used? How can be Infused Light a problem except to bots which can't stop spamming attacks? Is like people advisedly entering in a Scourge shade: you known what you shouldn't do when you hear the whistle. Is broken the chess pawn because can be promoted to be a queen if reaches the 8th line? Or is fault of the adversary for not preventing it?read this:@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@"Aeolus.3615" said:

All that OP needs to do is wait 3 seconds and he/she can get back to atack

...... more eyes less key bashing id say.Thank you for the advice but If only it was that simple....What most of you don t understand is that

NOT ALL ATTACKS CAN BE STOWED

. Condi, pets, spirits, turrets, wells, clones/phantasm, necro's marks, guard's symbols, traps. Basically

everything that is not direct/no delay, power damage CAN T BE CANCELLED

.Now, what do you think? Am I still a "dummy" or a spamming bot?Neither nor! But you don't get the intention. Infuse light is a situational heal. It's not just "I press a button and get a heal". It has to be used under certain conditions to be effective. That's tricky for a heal skill which has to be ready on demand as you can not "plan" to use a heal at a certain point in the encounter. It depends on what your target does.

Infuse light has drawbacks and strenghs like every other heal in the game too. There are heals on low cooldowns that heal only for a small amount or only over time. Then there are strong heals that have huge cooldowns or that weaken yourself. Infuse Light (and the warior stance heal too) are heals that can be strong in one scenario but extremely weak in another scenario. This is balanced. It would not be balanced if a spec that has tons of condi cleanses would also get the best anti condi heal on top. But exactly the opposite is the case with herald.

Do you also complain about consume conditions (the necro heal that is strong against conditions)? That skill can heal you for 12k HP when it cleanses a condibomb. But it has a huge cast time and telegraph as drawback.

Infuse light is not even good as an invunerability that covers a burst because the revenant will usually stop attacking to invite the target to attack to heal the rev. If the rev casts infuse light while attacking, then he risks that the targets switches into defense and does no damage at all to the rev, which wastes infuse light. So most of the time infuse light is just 3 seconds where nothing happens. The rev asks for damage and the target stows his weapon.

Only repeating one side of the story like always. Also a good Revenant doesn't stop attacking because a good Revenant wouldn't wait until he has no health to get a full free heal and that's where the problem lies which everyone defending the skill denies, bad plays and taking for granted the potential to get a full heal where has it's not supposed to happen all the time.

Nothing stops you from Legend swapping and do anything else while you are under effect of Infuse Light for people to retaliate.Nothing stops you from waiting the burst while people try to tickle and avoiding doing too much healing as the indication is up.

It's the user fault for trying to maximize Infuse Light and it's the user fault for not taking advantage of the position it puts them in to show you can reverse damage anytime.

Infuse Light last too long as of currently and needs a reduction so that conditions are no longer as favored. Compensating for the duration nerf, would be giving the base heal a bigger number then everything will be fine it's no longer ezpz free full heals in favor of conditions and power will still be able to heal as much because of spikes.

If you are to tell me that conditions will still melt the user afterwards then I'll just have to repeat every single possible mass cleanses Revenants have at their disposal.

Dude, you've already been calling everyone noobs, they should report you for disrespect XD You say you are main rev and you don't even know those who give their opinion and are good rev revs. Okay, I've been playing rev 4.5 years, 13000+ calves but I'm a bad noob in rev, Buran too right? Nerf it plz as it counteracts your construction berk-jalis-shiro ... Even explaining step by step how to counter, and why it is not OP you understand. Good luck with your nerf tryhard and your credibility. Postscript: The engi ADE cure can heal 16k just for taking a hit (if a single hit) at the right time, and cleans others 5 condi. Why don't you ask for nerf?

Ask any main Engineer about your comparison with A.E.D. and they'll laugh at you, in fact as Revenant you could easily remove any health they just got with a simple Unrelenting Assault with stability because nothing stops damage from overflowing in A.E.D. Shock Aura, even a Balanced Stance Warrior which have been making a come back would have a good time just chewing the exposure if you used that Heal skill like Infuse Light.

You explain every steps of a counter that includes mistakes that shouldn't be done, they're only one side of the story in the oppressive amount of things Revenant can do in the mean time. I call people that think other legends are unviable bad Revenant because they are if they think Herald is all that can be played, it's untrue. This was the case for Mallyx until the patch made people try new things, now Renegade is being called OP as well, you gotta wonder why summons are counterable and I've been elaborating on that for years. Now wait until Jalis is called OP for being too Tanky even though nothing that was ever added to compliment or synergy with the Legend since the Invocation and Ancient Echo be broken, unlike Sic 'em as best example.

Nah, it doesn't counter it all. I'm a Revenant main and I can admit when my things are OP while the rest are ridding the bandwagon. I've actually made a big fat list of Nerf/Buffs for the profession with reasons why. Revenant is a class that does not deserve to full heal from one skill and that's an obvious fact I don't have to explain again for the fifth time here, it's in fact a miracle that Anet decided give it this much meat in 1 ability while nerfing other things that don't need it such as Gaze of Darkness.

Finally in the context of the "nerf" is more like a rework because what Infuse Light need is not only 2 seconds but a bigger base heal also. I ain't asking for things without consideration, I'm definitely aware of what it means because just like you I main that profession too and I find my success with Herald way too consistent and easy to think it's balanced, thus to make it better and less toxic for the rest of who fights it.

Underlying note, A power Revenant can pretty much stow all attacks but Staff 5 which is considering 0 damage so no, Herald definitely does not counter a Jalis/Shiro but also could easily turn the tides by playing smart with the skill rather than do the thing every one else does /all/ the time and attempt for a full heal. All Herald needs is 5k healing to come toe to toe with it's profession quota, not difficult. There's other things that should be buffed/reworked instead, like I said Facet of Darkness cooldown is too high, same for Facet of Chaos. Shield 4 bug fix and Shield 5 to pulse it's current effects in an AoE.

[Zephoid.4263]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@"Zephoid.4263" said:None of this applies to Infuse light. In fact, almost all of the drawbacks of AED are not present in IL. At worst, IL is a 3s invuln with ability to act. Thats already one of the strongest forms of defense in the game. Almost all other 3s invuln has been nerfed heavily at this point. Even ele's Fortify on earth shield got nerfed recently to be a full duration channel.

3s of invuln is nothing after the balance patch. The increased TTK weakend infuse light in its general utility (less pressure when used offensively and less heal when used defensively). And even before the patch that heal could be hardcountered by a simple 3s block when used offensively.

All that "can be used while attacking" is nice, when you don't care about losing your healing skill. Maybe you are that good, that you don't need a healing skill and 3s of invulnerable attacking grant you a 100% win rate.

.... you have 2 healing skills.The patch brought condi builds to significantly higher prevalence. That buffed IL significantly.

No one else has a 3s block on a remotely similar cooldown. Guard's 3s invuln is an elite on a 100s cd that channels the whole duration, for comparison.

[Buran.3796]

@"Zephoid.4263" said:

No one else has a 3s block on a remotely similar cooldown. Guard's 3s invuln is an elite on a 100s cd that channels the whole duration, for comparison.

Rev has 2 "half heals skills", not 2 "real heals", and if one of the legends is Shiro then only has one "half heal skill", because Shiro's healing is almost useless nad have been that way for a while.

[Eugchriss.2046]

@Buran.3796 said:

@"Zephoid.4263" said:

No one else has a 3s block on a remotely similar cooldown. Guard's 3s invuln is an elite on a 100s cd that channels the whole duration, for comparison.

Rev has 2 "half heals skills", not 2 "real heals", and if one of the legends is Shiro then only has one "half heal skill", because Shiro's healing is almost useless nad have been that way for a while.Lol. 2 half heals skill. Based on what? Based on some datas and informations you carefully gathered or something? Because 5k-6k seems to be the average of healing skills.Imagine calling a healing skill which heals for 10k+ a "half skill".Btw 6k heal combined with 5k damage is not useless. You and other have been saying to "stop attacking" when infuse light is activated, maybe you should too when you ennemy have some reflect on? What do you think?

[Buran.3796]

@"Eugchriss.2046" said:

Lol. 2 half heals skill. Based on what? Based on some datas and informations you carefully gathered or something? Because 5k-6k seems to be the average of healing skills.Imagine calling a healing skill which heals for 10k+ a "half skill".Btw 6k heal combined with 5k damage is not useless. You and other have been saying to "stop attacking" when infuse light is activated, maybe you should too when you ennemy have some reflect on? What do you think?

I think that a Shiro Rev can only get 5k heals from Enchanting Daggers either attacking a bot or a player afk. Your maths about Infuse Light granting a full heal recovery and Enchanting Daggers giving another 5-6k heals can only work in bronze matches, if all.

[Eugchriss.2046]

@Buran.3796 said:

@"Eugchriss.2046" said:

Lol. 2 half heals skill. Based on what? Based on some datas and informations you carefully gathered or something? Because 5k-6k seems to be the average of healing skills.Imagine calling a healing skill which heals for 10k+ a "half skill".Btw 6k heal combined with 5k damage is not useless. You and other have been saying to "stop attacking" when infuse light is activated, maybe you should too when you ennemy have some reflect on? What do you think?

I think that a Shiro Rev can only get 5k heals from Enchanting Daggers either attacking a bot or a player afk. Your maths about Infuse Light granting a full heal recovery and Enchanting Daggers giving another 5-6k heals can only work in bronze matches, if all.Most classes have 2 dodges. This means at worse, 4 on 6 daggers must hit. On marauder, each dagger heals for 900-ish. 4 * 900 = 3600 + 1600ish base heal = 5200ish heal.So if you heal less than 5k with shiro heal, it means that you ve been spamming your skills into reflect/invul/block. In other words you have been outplayed and you should blame your self, not the mediocrity of the heal.If you think that infuse light doesn t heal for 10k+ then what about giving it a flat 5k heal + 2 sec block, just like guard' shelter? Maybe then you will see how op infuse light was.

[Buran.3796]

@"Eugchriss.2046" said:

Most classes have 2 dodges. This means at worse, 4 on 6 daggers must hit.

Must? Lets see: you swap to Shiro and now you have 50 energy units, now you spent 5 to cast Enchanting Daggers and another 35 to close gap a target with Phase Traversal, which means that you only have 10 energy units and 14.5 seconds to take use of that "heal". But turns out that the target is a Mesmer and jumps away with Blink, or is a Ele and uses Lightning Flash, or a Thief and uses a shadow step, or a Necro and uses Necrotic Traversal, or a Ranger or Engineer and fades in stealth, etc.

So Enchanted Daggers doesn't "grants" anything outside the laughlable initial 1560 HP heal, and "at worse" you can lose all the extra heal. As I said: Revenants have two half heals, are naturally weak to conditions, usually play without access to stability and now they play with barely any brekstun. There's plenty of weakness there to exploit, and if people is having problems with Infuse Ligth is because they are either unable to stop spamming attacks or the AoE pulsating damage over time in the game has gone too far and deserves the same treatment as Rev's hammer got. Nerf symbols, shades, marks... Instead of a skill which is easy to counter (stop attacking for 3 seconds). Is just as simple as that.

[Kuma.1503]

@"Eugchriss.2046" said:shiro heal, it means that you ve been spamming your skills into reflect/invul/block. In other words you have been outplayed and you should blame your self, not the mediocrity of the heal.

Isn't that the point everyone is trying to make? Shiro daggers can be outplayed, you don't get your heal for free, and the amount you receive if you play perfectly is on par with weak heals from other classes at best.

If you think that infuse light doesn t heal for 10k+ then what about giving it a flat 5k heal + 2 sec block, just like guard' shelter? Maybe then you will see how op infuse light was.

Guardians don't even run Shelter because it's a bad heal. You could make the same claim about any other mediocre heal in the game, and when players complain about how much weaker their heal is you can point and say "See, I told you your heal was OP"!

[Bast.7253]

I think the ability is fine since dev is still one of the hardest classes to play, but I wouldn’t mind a better visual queue for it. People always mention to look for when someone has a certain buff like infuse light or shocking aura, of a specific attunement, but in the heat of the moment amidst all the visual noise it’s really difficult keeping up with what buffs your opponent has.

Giving them some kind of aura or making them a different color or lit up may help with some of the counterplay. But that could be said for a large. Inner of skills. Something akin to full counter for warriors probably as they are at least obvious to know when to stop attacking, even though it’s still really easy to accidentally trigger fc.