Update on how class balance feels in 5v5 - My opinions

[Tayga.3192]

And here are my opinions:

Warrior - It needs a bit more damage but GS F1 needs to be staged like evis. Also hammer needs rework.Berserker - Needs a bit more damage.Spellbreaker - If GS F1 becomes staged, spb will get its nerf anyway.

Guardian - Core is still the same bursty and sustainy thing. Basically a worse DH.Dragonhunter - Almost meta, just needs LB3 to be fixed.Firebrand - It's still the same unskilled AoE spam, whether it's balanced or not.

Rev - It's just a worse herald lol.Herald - Meta. No idea what to change.Renegade - Same as Firebrand, unskilled AoE spam.

Daredevil - Meta, it's good as it is. Rev needs to be nerfed so Thief can be compared with it.

Engi - This class is still passive boonspam. It really needs its passives to be reworked. Also core engi needs better pistols lol.Holosmith - Meta with bunker boonspam.

Ranger - The best 1v1er, no viable sidenoders (that can pressure enough) to keep it in check. Pets needs rework.Druid - I agree with Trevor here, CA needs buffs.

Ele - This has a lot of very close (in terms of strength) builds, and all of them are pretty bad lmao. Needs a last push somewhere. Also nerf LR tywm.Tempest - It's at least not the pure heal tempest. Also nice to see conjure weapons seeing play. I think for a build that goes full cc, if LR gets nerfed, this will be very well balanced.

Mesmer - Barely viable, but might be the easiest class to play aside from aoe spam classes.Mirage - A better condi thief. I guess this is what Anet wanted it to be? Power mirage is RIP though.

Necro - Shroud save should be 300s cd.Reaper - Needs slight damage buffs in GS.Scourge - Anet needs to give this espec an identity. Is it a teamfight dps? A support?

[Downstate.4697]

Warrior-need its 300s traits reworked asap. Meta build is like almost there.

Guardian-firebrand needs damage shaves. DH needs lb buffs.

Ranger-is fine for core and soulbeast. Druid needs a rework.

Necro-too much defence on core. Reaper needs a bit more of sustain.

Ele-core builds do no damage. Its play menders or have a hard time. Great duelist, but lacks kill potential of LR weaver. Damage is okay running berserker d/d but no survivability. Tempest is fine. Weaver is fine, though LR needs small shave.

Rev-power builds are okay though some energy costs on shiro are too high. Condi builds a bit overtuned. Bunker herald a bit overturned with damage reduction. Renegades daze spam needs a shave.

Engi-has alot going for it. I feel like you can make a good build running any traitline. Its boon application and defence is better than an ele, making it a better ele.

Mesmer-dont play it.

Thief-fallen off a bit, but with shaves to other professions will be in a better spot.

[monotony.4931]

If feels all good is code for despicable then I agree that Holosmith is fine.

[Tharan.9085]

@otto.5684 said:

DH, power, not viable. LB is unusable. The only really effective PvP trap no longer deals damage. DH does not support melee game play in sPvP, due to lack of retaliation. Condi DH with Sword of Justice is the oNly semi viable DH build. But pretty easy to outplay. Does well with good team support.

Meditrapper is in a better place then before patch. Condi DH is bad.

[Axl.8924]

@Tayga.3192 said:And here are my opinions:

Warrior - It needs a bit more damage but GS F1 needs to be staged like evis. Also hammer needs rework.Berserker - Needs a bit more damage.Spellbreaker - If GS F1 becomes staged, spb will get its nerf anyway.

Guardian - Core is still the same bursty and sustainy thing. Basically a worse DH.Dragonhunter - Almost meta, just needs LB3 to be fixed.Firebrand - It's still the same unskilled AoE spam, whether it's balanced or not.

Rev - It's just a worse herald lol.Herald - Meta. No idea what to change.Renegade - Same as Firebrand, unskilled AoE spam.

Daredevil - Meta, it's good as it is. Rev needs to be nerfed so Thief can be compared with it.

Engi - This class is still passive boonspam. It really needs its passives to be reworked. Also core engi needs better pistols lol.Holosmith - Meta with bunker boonspam.

Ranger - The best 1v1er, no viable sidenoders (that can pressure enough) to keep it in check. Pets needs rework.Druid - I agree with Trevor here, CA needs buffs.

Ele - This has a lot of very close (in terms of strength) builds, and all of them are pretty bad lmao. Needs a last push somewhere. Also nerf LR tywm.Tempest - It's at least not the pure heal tempest. Also nice to see conjure weapons seeing play. I think for a build that goes full cc, if LR gets nerfed, this will be very well balanced.

Mesmer - Barely viable, but might be the easiest class to play aside from aoe spam classes.Mirage - A better condi thief. I guess this is what Anet wanted it to be? Power mirage is RIP though.

Necro - Shroud save should be 300s cd.Reaper - Needs slight damage buffs in GS.Scourge - Anet needs to give this espec an identity. Is it a teamfight dps? A support?

300 second cd is way too long, it would make necro unviable and trash tier.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

guard - imo they should rework symbols and all aoe for that matter to be shorter but stronger. the amount of aoe uptime makes playing against this class a game of musical chairs, except every chair is on fire.war - if you dodge the 2-3 dmg skills this class seems bad.rev - power los port w/ quickness is dumb, abyssal chill needs an icd.rang - either you can counter it or you can't and death is inevitable.eng - explosive entrance.teef - smoke screen still feels like too much of a forgiving skill. s/p is annoying as hell to fight against.ele - I wonder if shocking aura icd is shared or per person.mes - one shot from stealth or unviable.nec - unholy sanctuary is the biggest offender. boon>condi table still broke.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

I think a lot of posters are posting based on their own class’ perspective and possibly experiences below plat 1 levels.

As a PvP noob player, but a frequent stalker of high level PvP streams like Naru, Vallun, Chaith, Noscoc and Ajax etc. I shall provide the most objective analysis based on my observations of these top streamers and their plat+ games.

Necromancer Need Nerf

Bunker builds are easily destroyed at high level plays due to lack of mobility. Wurm and spectral walk is still a must. Sustain is not the problem. Lich damage is the one that needs a nerf.

Mesmer Need Buff

I rarely see good mesmers in their games. i never thought there would be a day I say this, but this class probably needs a buff in the power department if their lack of representation is indicative of the state of the class.

Elementalist Balanced

Their showings in the streams have been rather decent. Good balance of sustain and damage and mobility. Nothing OP to pick on. Probably the most balanced class currently.

Thief Balanced

Mobility. One word sums up a well-played thief. Lacks the ability to contest nodes alone against other classes but makes up for it with portal plays to force frequent decaps.

Ranger Balanced

Oddly, the better performing ones I seen on their high level streams are the ones that use lots of immobilises. Makes focusing target a lot easier with them around. Able to go condi or power with decent showings.

Engineer Need Nerf

This class is quite close to balanced. However I do see in those streams that their core grenade throwing? skill is a little too high on damage. Shave that a little and they should be fine.

Warrior Balanced

This beast of a class brings lots of CC to the team. When played well, can often lock down opponents for a kill.

Guardian Balanced

I’m a little torn on this because from the streams shown, this class gives up mobility to be a strong node fighter. A direct opposite of the thief role. I would say balanced.

Revenant Needs Nerf

This class preys on thieves but ironically can only be successfully focused by a thief due to its superior mobility. Power and condi are both viable choices. Condi application needs a slight nerf but otherwise it is fine.

And this concludes the most objective analysis by a PvP noob but big fan stalker of these top streamers and their plat+ games.

[Tharan.9085]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:And here are my opinions:

Warrior - It needs a bit more damage but GS F1 needs to be staged like evis. Also hammer needs rework.Berserker - Needs a bit more damage.Spellbreaker - If GS F1 becomes staged, spb will get its nerf anyway.

Guardian - Core is still the same bursty and sustainy thing. Basically a worse DH.Dragonhunter - Almost meta, just needs LB3 to be fixed.Firebrand - It's still the same unskilled AoE spam, whether it's balanced or not.

Rev - It's just a worse herald lol.Herald - Meta. No idea what to change.Renegade - Same as Firebrand, unskilled AoE spam.

Daredevil - Meta, it's good as it is. Rev needs to be nerfed so Thief can be compared with it.

Engi - This class is still passive boonspam. It really needs its passives to be reworked. Also core engi needs better pistols lol.Holosmith - Meta with bunker boonspam.

Ranger - The best 1v1er, no viable sidenoders (that can pressure enough) to keep it in check. Pets needs rework.Druid - I agree with Trevor here, CA needs buffs.

Ele - This has a lot of very close (in terms of strength) builds, and all of them are pretty bad lmao. Needs a last push somewhere. Also nerf LR tywm.Tempest - It's at least not the pure heal tempest. Also nice to see conjure weapons seeing play. I think for a build that goes full cc, if LR gets nerfed, this will be very well balanced.

Mesmer - Barely viable, but might be the easiest class to play aside from aoe spam classes.Mirage - A better condi thief. I guess this is what Anet wanted it to be? Power mirage is RIP though.

Necro - Shroud save should be 300s cd.Reaper - Needs slight damage buffs in GS.Scourge - Anet needs to give this espec an identity. Is it a teamfight dps? A support?

300 second cd is way too long, it would make necro unviable and trash tier.

lmao, no

[Axl.8924]

@Tharan.9085 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:And here are my opinions:

Warrior - It needs a bit more damage but GS F1 needs to be staged like evis. Also hammer needs rework.Berserker - Needs a bit more damage.Spellbreaker - If GS F1 becomes staged, spb will get its nerf anyway.

Guardian - Core is still the same bursty and sustainy thing. Basically a worse DH.Dragonhunter - Almost meta, just needs LB3 to be fixed.Firebrand - It's still the same unskilled AoE spam, whether it's balanced or not.

Rev - It's just a worse herald lol.Herald - Meta. No idea what to change.Renegade - Same as Firebrand, unskilled AoE spam.

Daredevil - Meta, it's good as it is. Rev needs to be nerfed so Thief can be compared with it.

Engi - This class is still passive boonspam. It really needs its passives to be reworked. Also core engi needs better pistols lol.Holosmith - Meta with bunker boonspam.

Ranger - The best 1v1er, no viable sidenoders (that can pressure enough) to keep it in check. Pets needs rework.Druid - I agree with Trevor here, CA needs buffs.

Ele - This has a lot of very close (in terms of strength) builds, and all of them are pretty bad lmao. Needs a last push somewhere. Also nerf LR tywm.Tempest - It's at least not the pure heal tempest. Also nice to see conjure weapons seeing play. I think for a build that goes full cc, if LR gets nerfed, this will be very well balanced.

Mesmer - Barely viable, but might be the easiest class to play aside from aoe spam classes.Mirage - A better condi thief. I guess this is what Anet wanted it to be? Power mirage is RIP though.

Necro - Shroud save should be 300s cd.Reaper - Needs slight damage buffs in GS.Scourge - Anet needs to give this espec an identity. Is it a teamfight dps? A support?

300 second cd is way too long, it would make necro unviable and trash tier.

lmao, no

It is way too long if its shroud it will kill nec.

Nec with shroud at 300 would be unviable unable to deal dmg or tank efficiently.If its unholy sanctuary that's way too punishing and high cd. Just imagine if all your firebrand symbols were on 200-sec cd that would be devastating and might really kill them.

I don't want to be condescending to you or insulting you but, before you speak you should make sure you know what you are talking about, and make sure your internal bias against necro isn't taking over the logic of what could be killing the class.

While I have wished nerfs on firebrands I don't want them to all cease to be, I don't want guardians to cease to exist, so at least don't ill wish necros either.

There is a sensible way to fix things, and then there is the lazy way which is nerfed class into ground Q_Q.

It takes very delicate work to fix a class, using a scalpel to surgically fix what's problematic rather than come at it with a jackhammer or a chainsaw and start carving away. This quick-fix will only reveal how broken of a problem and outdated it really is. You aren't going to fix necro by adding a 300-sec cd to unholy martyr or shroud, all you will do is make necro feel unviable and make them all ragequit. Sure they won't be a problem, but then they will be broken and useless. Sure a sociopath would approve but there needs to be a fix that makes both desireable and fun.

[Tayga.3192]

@"Axl.8924" said:snip

I don't mean "shroud should be on 300 cooldown",I meant Unholy Sanctuary should be 300s cooldown.

Reread what I wrote: "Shroud save should be 300s"

[Axl.8924]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@"Axl.8924" said:snip

I don't mean "shroud should be on 300 cooldown",I meant Unholy Sanctuary should be 300s cooldown.

Reread what I wrote: "Shroud save should be 300s"

300 seconds would make it useless.

300 seconds is an eternity in gw2 PVP time, as its 5 minutes, and with fast pace combat it wouldn't be picked.

[GewRoo.4172]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Axl.8924 said:snip

I don't mean "shroud should be on 300 cooldown",I meant Unholy Sanctuary should be 300s cooldown.

Reread what I wrote: "Shroud save should be 300s"

300 seconds would make it useless.

300 seconds is an eternity in gw2 PVP time, as its 5 minutes, and with fast pace combat it wouldn't be picked.

big brain time from our master mind again x3

[apharma.3741]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Mesmer Need Buff

I rarely see good mesmers in their games. i never thought there would be a day I say this, but this class probably needs a buff in the power department if their lack of representation is indicative of the state of the class.

Screenshot, bookmarked, saving for later :tongue:

[Axl.8924]

@GewRoo.4172 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Axl.8924 said:snip

I don't mean "shroud should be on 300 cooldown",I meant Unholy Sanctuary should be 300s cooldown.

Reread what I wrote: "Shroud save should be 300s"

300 seconds would make it useless.

300 seconds is an eternity in gw2 PVP time, as its 5 minutes, and with fast pace combat it wouldn't be picked.

big brain time from our master mind again x3

got your 5c to insert good sir?

[Tayga.3192]

@Axl.8924 said:300 seconds is an eternity in gw2 PVP time, as its 5 minutes, and with fast pace combat it wouldn't be picked.

All lifesaving passives other than this were nerfed to 300s cd.Why is this any different? It's actually one of the traits that would be ok with 300s cd since it still regenerates health while in shroud.

[Axl.8924]

Link them?

[Tayga.3192]

@"Axl.8924" said:Link them?

Nice answering without quoting lol.Anyway look at PvP variants of these:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Endure_Pain#PvPhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Signet_of_Stone#WvW.2CPvPhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Arcane_Shield#WvW.2CPvPhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Instant_Reflexes#WvW.2CPvP

And this is Unholy Sanctuary:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Sanctuary

[Exedore.6320]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:I meant Unholy Sanctuary should be 300s cooldown.300 seconds would make it useless.

Making it useless is the point. But it actually doesn't matter.

Here's the problem with the auto-shroud on death: good prayers dont really need it; they can manage shroud to prevent death just fine. However at lower tiers of play, it covers for major mistakes of players.

Though the real problem with necro is the amount of shroud they generate in some situations. Fix that and auto-shroud is far less powerful.

[Tayga.3192]

@Axl.8924 said:That would be like putting a 300 sec cd on druid regen from ca. 40 50ish seconds? that's more reasonable but 300 is extreme for hp regen for shroud.

Nonono I just want AUTO SHROUD PROC to be 300s cd. Regen can stay at 1s interval.

[Tayga.3192]

@Exedore.6320 said:Here's the problem with the auto-shroud on death: good prayers dont really need it

When you moa a necro and if it dies while moa'd, they become a... shrouded moa.

Also it ignores 10s cooldown of shroud so you can't even burst when they just leave shroud.

[mrauls.6519]

Anet, please revert the cast time on Deflecting Shot

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Large annotated post below.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Berserker - Eh, didn't really expect pvp status out of it to begin with.Sad charr noises

Spellbreaker - Feels great.

Urite. I think the damage on spellbreakers is more in line with what it was supposed to be now. Now Magebane and the like make more sense.

Guardian - Bit underwhelming.

Wait until people finish offloading from Firebrand.

Dragonhunter - Seems to be viable again in some circumstances, surprisingly.

Due to offloading from Firebrand.

Firebrand - Balanced for the most part, but it's still pumping out too much offensive aggression.

I have no idea about this.

Rev - It's fine.Herald - It's still too dominant. Either the offensive pressure or the sustain needs a shave.

mmmmmmmmmmaybe? I guess battle scars makes infuse light a good target for a 1 second shave/cd adjustment.

Renegade - In some situations it sucks and in others it's way too bloated. Rather than nerfs or buffs, it needs reallocations to where its power lies.

Can we not have omega large circles please?

Daredevil - It's not OP right now. It looks OP because of how the meta formed around it. Sort of like if Necros had a meta with no DEs or Rangers.claps Thank. You.

Deadeye - This class is bad now.Pauses clapping wouldn't call it bad, it still has some presence.

Engi - w/e it's fine for a core.Scrapper - This class needs some sustain back.

Disagree. I think scrapper's fine where it is. Keep in mind they can pick up gren kits/turrets but haven't chosen to do so via meta yet.

Holosmith - Feels good finally.

yep. Not obnoxious to fight anymore.

Ranger - Viable side node presence but absolute garbage when focused or while in team fights. Pets explode too fast in above bell curve play.

Welc to club

Soulbeast - No longer a viable competitive presence. The Maul & WI nerfs hit too hard.

w e l c t o c l u b. I've been 360mauled for more than my HB puts out if all the hits connect.

Ele - Seems to be fine to me for a core.Tempest - Pumping out way too much CC. I'm not even saying it's OP, but rather the amount of CC is unhealthy for game play.

Agreed. Auramancers prob gonna get shocking aura/lightning rod beaned.

Weaver - Seems fine to me.

Mes - It's fine for core.Chrono - Nothing viable here at all. Nothing.

Agreed.

Mirage - Another situation of odd balance. It struggles in solo/duo queue, but it works fine in organized 5 man play.

That may be visibility bias. I may also be biased, but I've seen the opposite. not too much of an issue in organized 5 man but still good in duos.

Necro - Way too much sustain, not enough damage output. It is actually a Bunker spec.

Ye.

Reaper - Good balance right now imo.

I guess? If you can call being 50% uptime warrior balance.

Scourge - It needs back some damage and it could be viable again.

Power spec for scourge pls.

~ And then we have the issue with intra-class wide revive speed. I'm not saying that it's OP, but I will say that it is obnoxious in a very special kind of way.

Agreed.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Tayga.3192 said:When you moa a necro and if it dies while moa'd, they become a... shrouded moa.

Is that true?

If so that's amazing.

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

Mesmer

Need Buff

I rarely see good mesmers in their games. i never thought there would be a day I say this, but this class probably needs a buff in the power department if their lack of representation is indicative of the state of the class.

Ominous choir noises in the distance

[Tayga.3192]

@"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:Is that true?If so that's amazing.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/99281/shrouded-moa

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:Is that true?If so that's amazing.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/99281/shrouded-moa

This is my new favorite thing on GW2 forums

Death chicken