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Stap! Every class has an OP build.

EremiteAngel.9765

By EremiteAngel.9765
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Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

Posted
Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with
infiltrator/shadow return
? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing

You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed.
Hide in Shadows
? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do
before
they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run
never
go for stealth and
always
just switch to shortbow 5.

2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed

And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.

You're playing a perfect combat scenario that works against thieves...what if I use the same scenario but in favor of thieves? That would invalidate every buff/nerf claim thieves have created up to this point

"Perfect combat scenario"? Hah, no. Its the
average
combat scenario. The only way thief can stealth up "in-combat" without being punished is if theyre at range against an immobile melee class that has no pull of any kind. And at that point theyre not exactly "in-combat" anymore, are they? As I said, there is a reason thieves dont use stealth in combat. Its bad.

How many melee specs have pull outside guardian GS and engi ?

Well Reaper. But hence why I said "immobile". How many melee specs have neither mobility, nor a pull? I cant think of any.

In a perfect combat scenario, the thief would try to stealth just next to you...so you just cleave him out, your average combat scenario only happens at low levels

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Psycoprophet.8107

Psycoprophet.8107

Posted
Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

If you hit the person trying tostealth in Eso , he will block the first attack but not the second .And he need 1,5 sec to fully stealth .In which point dps with aoes de-stealth him

Peace 2 hours

Are u confusing stealth in eso as invisibility? Invisibility being shadow cloak is instant cast. It does not take me 1.5 secs to stealth. Aoe's pull u outa stealth cuz otherwise I'd be broken as I said press one button every 3 secs and u have perma invisibility. Invisibility in eso has way less upkeep and is far easier to upkeep long durations, unless changed dots reveal u but going invis while having dots suppresses them. Invisibility is stronger and easier to use in eso, I kno I often play my stamblade. If invisibility in gw2 was like eso's I'd get even more hate.

You are in a semi transparent state , aand after 1,5 sec you go in fully stealth .If you get hit or attack you remain in the semi-visible state till they or you stop attacking

Regadles of what time of stealth you do , you get destealth if i hit you from aoes or hunt you in meele rangeGimme the same fuction in here too , and you can make stealth permanant

I have never noticed this semi transparent state u speak of while cloaking. I use it in combat and am instantly invisible, if being hit or just after yes but that sure beats a 3 sec out right reveal

All classes can sneak and sneak stealth attack by crouching out of sight rendering them seemingly invisible. Invisibility via cloak and to stretch further potions is different than sneaking. The only thing there share is the sneak attack part which has a built in hidden kilker effect to making sneak attacks always crit. I'll take that as well thanks.

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with
infiltrator/shadow return
? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing

You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed.
Hide in Shadows
? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do
before
they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run
never
go for stealth and
always
just switch to shortbow 5.

2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed

And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.

You're playing a perfect combat scenario that works against thieves...what if I use the same scenario but in favor of thieves? That would invalidate every buff/nerf claim thieves have created up to this point

"Perfect combat scenario"? Hah, no. Its the
average
combat scenario. The only way thief can stealth up "in-combat" without being punished is if theyre at range against an immobile melee class that has no pull of any kind. And at that point theyre not exactly "in-combat" anymore, are they? As I said, there is a reason thieves dont use stealth in combat. Its bad.

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with
infiltrator/shadow return
? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing

You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed.
Hide in Shadows
? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do
before
they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run
never
go for stealth and
always
just switch to shortbow 5.

2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed

And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.

You're playing a perfect combat scenario that works against thieves...what if I use the same scenario but in favor of thieves? That would invalidate every buff/nerf claim thieves have created up to this point

"Perfect combat scenario"? Hah, no. Its the
average
combat scenario. The only way thief can stealth up "in-combat" without being punished is if theyre at range against an immobile melee class that has no pull of any kind. And at that point theyre not exactly "in-combat" anymore, are they? As I said, there is a reason thieves dont use stealth in combat. Its bad.

This true on most builds except dp which can blind with black powder then HS to stealth and reposition and chose to disengage or re engage depending on the situation and of course opponent skill level as a blind can be cleared quickly thru cleave as well the thief can also take damage from said cleave. I've gotten more than a few comments in chat when downing a stealth'd thief on my warrior calling me a hacker as if thieves arnt aware invisibility in no way means invulnerability lol.Most thief builds dont use in combat stealth but dp does, just unfortunate it hits like $hit right now.

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with
infiltrator/shadow return
? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing

You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed.
Hide in Shadows
? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do
before
they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run
never
go for stealth and
always
just switch to shortbow 5.

2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed

And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.

You're playing a perfect combat scenario that works against thieves...what if I use the same scenario but in favor of thieves? That would invalidate every buff/nerf claim thieves have created up to this point

"Perfect combat scenario"? Hah, no. Its the
average
combat scenario. The only way thief can stealth up "in-combat" without being punished is if theyre at range against an immobile melee class that has no pull of any kind. And at that point theyre not exactly "in-combat" anymore, are they? As I said, there is a reason thieves dont use stealth in combat. Its bad.

You're stepping in a shadow field..it's not a single blind and your cleave will miss if it starts inside the field and....you managed to down a thief with a lucky aoe where the thief allowed himself to be killed, anecdotal evidence doesn't amount to anything these days

Smoke field actually. And no, it is indeed a single blind. Black Powder ticks once every 2 seconds. The thief would already be in stealth by the time the second tick happens. And sure, if you have a single non-multihit attack it will miss. But you have more than one attack, or multihits. And no, its not a "lucky AoE". You can and do precisely aim and hit it. And yes, the thief did allow himself to be killed, by attempting to stealth mid-combat. However, thats the point. You argue that its free and safe to stealth mid-combat, but thats not the case. Doing so is just the thief allowing himself to be killed.

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with
infiltrator/shadow return
? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing

You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed.
Hide in Shadows
? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do
before
they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run
never
go for stealth and
always
just switch to shortbow 5.

2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed

And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.

You're playing a perfect combat scenario that works against thieves...what if I use the same scenario but in favor of thieves? That would invalidate every buff/nerf claim thieves have created up to this point

"Perfect combat scenario"? Hah, no. Its the
average
combat scenario. The only way thief can stealth up "in-combat" without being punished is if theyre at range against an immobile melee class that has no pull of any kind. And at that point theyre not exactly "in-combat" anymore, are they? As I said, there is a reason thieves dont use stealth in combat. Its bad.

How many melee specs have pull outside guardian GS and engi ?

Well Reaper. But hence why I said "immobile". How many melee specs have neither mobility, nor a pull? I cant think of any.

In a perfect combat scenario, the thief would try to stealth just next to you...so you just cleave him out, your
average
combat scenario only happens at low levels

Lets say he does from a bit further way. You dash onto him, and still cleave him out. Or you pull him out and cleave him out. Thats why I specified "at range, against an immobile class without a pull". Its still the average combat scenario. The only scenario in which thief can stealth up is the one I have mentioned. Now that is a "perfect combat scenario".

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Killthehealersffs.8940

Killthehealersffs.8940

Posted
Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

If you hit the person trying tostealth in Eso , he will block the first attack but not the second .And he need 1,5 sec to fully stealth .In which point dps with aoes de-stealth him

Peace 2 hours

Are u confusing stealth in eso as invisibility? Invisibility being shadow cloak is instant cast. It does not take me 1.5 secs to stealth. Aoe's pull u outa stealth cuz otherwise I'd be broken as I said press one button every 3 secs and u have perma invisibility. Invisibility in eso has way less upkeep and is far easier to upkeep long durations, unless changed dots reveal u but going invis while having dots suppresses them. Invisibility is stronger and easier to use in eso, I kno I often play my stamblade. If invisibility in gw2 was like eso's I'd get even more hate.

You are in a semi transparent state , aand after 1,5 sec you go in fully stealth .If you get hit or attack you remain in the semi-visible state till they or you stop attacking

Regadles of what time of stealth you do , you get destealth if i hit you from aoes or hunt you in meele rangeGimme the same fuction in here too , and you can make stealth permanant

I have never noticed this semi transparent state u speak of while cloaking. I use it in combat and am instantly invisible, if being hit or just after yes but that sure beats a 3 sec out right reveal

All classes can sneak and sneak stealth attack by crouching out of sight rendering them seemingly invisible. Invisibility via cloak and to stretch further potions is different than sneaking.

Yes every class before out of comba can stealth (and avoid the pvp:P -can we have that in WvWvW too ?)If you push invisibility you need 1,5 sec before you get the ''hidden message'' .With Cloack you dont need to wait 1,5 sec , but i still can see you while i am near you meele-ing you + dots

(dont be mean to new players ..i have one more ''thing'' to do)

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Psycoprophet.8107

Psycoprophet.8107

Posted
Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

If you hit the person trying tostealth in Eso , he will block the first attack but not the second .And he need 1,5 sec to fully stealth .In which point dps with aoes de-stealth him

Peace 2 hours

Are u confusing stealth in eso as invisibility? Invisibility being shadow cloak is instant cast. It does not take me 1.5 secs to stealth. Aoe's pull u outa stealth cuz otherwise I'd be broken as I said press one button every 3 secs and u have perma invisibility. Invisibility in eso has way less upkeep and is far easier to upkeep long durations, unless changed dots reveal u but going invis while having dots suppresses them. Invisibility is stronger and easier to use in eso, I kno I often play my stamblade. If invisibility in gw2 was like eso's I'd get even more hate.

You are in a semi transparent state , aand after 1,5 sec you go in fully stealth .If you get hit or attack you remain in the semi-visible state till they or you stop attacking

Regadles of what time of stealth you do , you get destealth if i hit you from aoes or hunt you in meele rangeGimme the same fuction in here too , and you can make stealth permanant

I have never noticed this semi transparent state u speak of while cloaking. I use it in combat and am instantly invisible, if being hit or just after yes but that sure beats a 3 sec out right reveal

All classes can sneak and sneak stealth attack by crouching out of sight rendering them seemingly invisible. Invisibility via cloak and to stretch further potions is different than sneaking.

Yes every class before out of comba can stealth (and avoid the pvp:P -can we have that in WvWvW too ?)If you push invisibility you need 1,5 sec before you get the ''hidden message'' .With Cloack you dont need to wait 1,5 sec , but i still can see you while i am near you meele-ing you + dots

Yeah thsts cuz dps reveal in eso but not for 3 sec and if stealth had as easy access and duration in gw2 as it does in eso than dps pulling thief outa stealth would be fine but 2 different stealth iterations. Gw2 stealth requires far more interaction and resources to up keep and for a shorter duration. I can stay invisible on my nightblade 30 secs while not putting very much effort but for 30 secs in gw2 I'd be not able to anything else but manage my ini to jump thru smoke fields as well as use utility skills. Also u can re enter stealth after a sec of not taking damage unlike gw2 3 sec reveal than having to create a field followed by blasting that field. If eso stealth was transferred over exactly how it is in eso I'd be far stronger than thiefs current stealth.

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Dantheman.3589

Dantheman.3589

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All you did was name counters we all know exist. Necro beats ranger unless they are nature magic and ranger beats holo unless holo has an insane amount of KB. Ofc a warrior can beat rev 1v1, literally none of it makes much sense counter doesn’t equal op and also I forgot to mention how thief and Mesmer are struggling for viability

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EremiteAngel.9765

EremiteAngel.9765

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@Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:I would recommend that more of us watch top streamers play in their Plat 3 / Legendary streams so we wouldn’t be too biased when calling for nerfs based on our own low leveled limited experiences.

When you have watched enough, you will realise that every class can perform at the highest levels.

People say nerf Ranger pets!But i watched a Necro fight on equal grounds with Boyce’s ranger. And the Necro arguably won by a whisker, forcing Boyce to retreat. Boyce! One of EU’s strongest! Forced to retreat by a Necro!

Okay then people say nerf Necro!I watched Naru, one of NA’s strongest, on his Reaper double team a holosmith in a 2 vs 1. The Holo tanked both Naru and his teammate, kited Naru’s Lich burst, and practically 1 vs 2 Naru and his teammate for Long durations. Immortal Holo!

Then people say nerf Immortal Holo!I watched Shadowfall on his ranger, out-noding an immortal Holo, forcing decaps frequently and even succeed in bursting and killing the Holo after a long fight.

Then people say nerf rev!I watched Ajax on his warrior stream, 1 vs 2 a ranger and revenant, and almost killed the rev. Forced multiple decaps against both condi/power revs. But I don’t think anyone ever calls to nerf warrior.

Then people say nerf condi mirage!I watched a power rev kill a top 10 ranked Mirage on stream even though the Mirage later got revenge on the rev too.

What I’m trying to say is that every class used at the highest levels has viable builds and roles.

And from what I’ve watched, there are no extremely over performing class that is an outlier.

Watch more of those high level games and you’ll learn that even those classes that you think are OP, can be countered and beaten in some way.

B U F F Teef

I would agree the thief is relatively weak one on one against other classes.

But I would be hesitant to buff thief because their previously strong mobility was made even more extreme with the portal.

This affects not only decaps, but also their ability to plus one an opponent anywhere on the map swiftly.

Being able to swiftly Plus one is an insane ability. It helps to create outnumbered fights to secure kills, force enemy off the ring because they need to kite, helping your ally to decap or cap the ring, or even do an unexpected res on an ally that was left to bleed out.

If we were to buff them to become strong solo node fighters as well, I fear it would make their plus one ability overly lethal.

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Burnfall.9573

Burnfall.9573

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@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:I would recommend that more of us watch top streamers play in their Plat 3 / Legendary streams so we wouldn’t be too biased when calling for nerfs based on our own low leveled limited experiences.

When you have watched enough, you will realise that every class can perform at the highest levels.

People say nerf Ranger pets!But i watched a Necro fight on equal grounds with Boyce’s ranger. And the Necro arguably won by a whisker, forcing Boyce to retreat. Boyce! One of EU’s strongest! Forced to retreat by a Necro!

Okay then people say nerf Necro!I watched Naru, one of NA’s strongest, on his Reaper double team a holosmith in a 2 vs 1. The Holo tanked both Naru and his teammate, kited Naru’s Lich burst, and practically 1 vs 2 Naru and his teammate for Long durations. Immortal Holo!

Then people say nerf Immortal Holo!I watched Shadowfall on his ranger, out-noding an immortal Holo, forcing decaps frequently and even succeed in bursting and killing the Holo after a long fight.

Then people say nerf rev!I watched Ajax on his warrior stream, 1 vs 2 a ranger and revenant, and almost killed the rev. Forced multiple decaps against both condi/power revs. But I don’t think anyone ever calls to nerf warrior.

Then people say nerf condi mirage!I watched a power rev kill a top 10 ranked Mirage on stream even though the Mirage later got revenge on the rev too.

What I’m trying to say is that every class used at the highest levels has viable builds and roles.

And from what I’ve watched, there are no extremely over performing class that is an outlier.

Watch more of those high level games and you’ll learn that even those classes that you think are OP, can be countered and beaten in some way.

B U F F Teef

I would agree the thief is relatively weak one on one against other classes.

But I would be hesitant to buff thief because their previously strong mobility was made even more extreme with the portal.

This affects not only decaps, but also their ability to plus one an opponent anywhere on the map swiftly.

Being able to swiftly Plus one is an insane ability. It helps to create outnumbered fights to secure kills, force enemy off the ring because they need to kite, helping your ally to decap or cap the ring, or even do an unexpected res on an ally that was left to bleed out.

If we were to buff them to become strong solo node fighters as well, I fear it would make their plus one ability overly lethal.

+1

'The new preparation Shadow Portal allows DP thief to abuse their role of a plus 1 much more effectively.......', Vallun

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