I know everyone forgot about reaper with Scourge, but power reaper still needs buffs.

[Sylvari.2953]

My Power Reaper became a banker character after the August 8 nerfs but I didn't forget about my old main... I will never play Scourge and I won't play Power Reaper unless they buff it. Start with giving -30% cd on Shroud back and an extra -25% LF decay for Reaper because we are a melee spec. And don't forget damage buffs of course.

[Zietlogik.6208]

The 30% speed of shadows nerf for shroud swapping really hurt how enjoyable power reaper was to play

[Axl.8924]

Obtenna I disagree with the idea.Personally I think a game like GW2 should expand gameplay of the class and offer many ways to play power reaper.

I was even upset i couldn't play power ranger because, i was having so much fun.I can understand having everyone be good at everything can lead to convoluted classes, but the people here are not asking for that, they are asking for something that already exists to be buffed so it can be balanced

[Zenith.7301]

@Zietlogik.6208 said:The 30% speed of shadows nerf for shroud swapping really hurt how enjoyable power reaper was to play

You never entered shroud in serious PvE outside of using RS5 and 3 to break a defiance bar, so that nerf is only relevant in PvP. Shroud outside scourge has always been a DPS loss compared to camping weapons in PvE.

And that's hardly what makes power reaper bad in all formats. The fact necro as a class has no self recovery worth a damn, can be easily kited and outdamaged by everyone while having less CC than a warrior or guardian basically makes you a poor man's guardian/warrior as a melee spec, and especially delicious to Pulmonary Impact interrupt thieves and interrupt mesmers given the massive cast times on everything necro has to do.

[nekretaal.6485]

It's really core Necromancer that needs the buffs, especially core necromancer's weapon skills that are vastly underpowered.

[Zenith.7301]

@nekretaal.6485 said:It's really core Necromancer that needs the buffs, especially core necromancer's weapon skills that are vastly underpowered.

Greatsword skills and reaper shroud are vastly underpowered.

Reaper traitline outside decimate defenses is actually worse than any core necro traitline in terms of throughput traits. A pathetic 10% damage against chilled targets when you can't even maintain chill unless you're autoattaccking only and doing nothing else to keep 100% chill uptime.

Spite provides far more damage % increases than reaper line does.

[Obtena.7952]

@Axl.8924 said:Obtenna I disagree with the idea.Personally I think a game like GW2 should expand gameplay of the class and offer many ways to play power reaper.

I was even upset i couldn't play power ranger because, i was having so much fun.I can understand having everyone be good at everything can lead to convoluted classes, but the people here are not asking for that, they are asking for something that already exists to be buffed so it can be balanced

Disagree all you like, but the way you think just isn't real; Anet simply doesn't develop the game like that. Furthermore ... NOTHING prevents you from playing whatever you want. It's only your perception of what you SHOULD play because of metapushers; maybe if you were less a sheep and just played what you like because ... you like it instead of what your told because of 'damage', you would enjoy the game more; I know I do.

Anyways, I continue to casually lurk this thread ... seeing how close play out to what I expect to see. Keeping this one in my back pocket for the NEXT time people have some unrealistic expectations for the game development direction.

[Castitalus.6359]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Axl.8924 said:Obtenna I disagree with the idea.Personally I think a game like GW2 should expand gameplay of the class and offer many ways to play power reaper.

I was even upset i couldn't play power ranger because, i was having so much fun.I can understand having everyone be good at everything can lead to convoluted classes, but the people here are not asking for that, they are asking for something that already exists to be buffed so it can be balanced

Disagree all you like, but the way you think just isn't real; Anet simply doesn't develop the game like that. Furthermore ... NOTHING prevents you from playing whatever you want. It's only your perception of what you SHOULD play because of metapushers; maybe if you were less a sheep and just played what you like because ... you like it instead of what your told because of 'damage', you would enjoy the game more; I know I do.

Anyways, I continue to casually lurk this thread ... seeing how close play out to what I expect to see. Keeping this one in my back pocket for the NEXT time people have some unrealistic expectations for the game development direction.

Yes, how dare people ask for buffs on a class that needs it. It's completely fine design to be told to reroll to a new class for high end group content.

[Sylvari.2953]

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Zietlogik.6208 said:The 30% speed of shadows nerf for shroud swapping really hurt how enjoyable power reaper was to play

You never entered shroud in serious PvE outside of using RS5 and 3 to break a defiance bar, so that nerf is only relevant in PvP. Shroud outside scourge has always been a DPS loss compared to camping weapons in PvE.

I'm not sure what "serious PvE" is but as an open world player (I play open world seriously!), I use Shroud... a lot. I actually love Shroud as a defence mechanic and I miss the -30% cd and the slower decay in my build. I find Shroud fun but it just doesn't feel right after the August 8 nerfs.

[Obtena.7952]

@Castitalus.6359 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Axl.8924 said:Obtenna I disagree with the idea.Personally I think a game like GW2 should expand gameplay of the class and offer many ways to play power reaper.

I was even upset i couldn't play power ranger because, i was having so much fun.I can understand having everyone be good at everything can lead to convoluted classes, but the people here are not asking for that, they are asking for something that already exists to be buffed so it can be balanced

Disagree all you like, but the way you think just isn't real; Anet simply doesn't develop the game like that. Furthermore ... NOTHING prevents you from playing whatever you want. It's only your perception of what you SHOULD play because of metapushers; maybe if you were less a sheep and just played what you like because ... you like it instead of what your told because of 'damage', you would enjoy the game more; I know I do.

Anyways, I continue to casually lurk this thread ... seeing how close play out to what I expect to see. Keeping this one in my back pocket for the NEXT time people have some unrealistic expectations for the game development direction.

Yes, how dare people ask for buffs on a class that needs it. It's completely fine design to be told to reroll to a new class for high end group content.

Seems to me that asking really isn't working out for necros is it? I'm never surprised these desires don't come to fruition ... simply asking isn't enough. Personally, I don't think the idea that you start with the solution, then find a problem it fixes. That's the approach people are buying into with the 'power reaper buff' idea.

[Conncept.7638]

Power reaper doesn't need buffs so much as the necromancer needs to gain shroud without having to constantly kill mobs, reaper or otherwise.

The idea behind the reaper was that your high point of damage would be inside reaper shroud, as opposed to that being your tank and attrition state, which really does work great in a lot of place. I cruise through the HoT maps on my power reaper easier and faster than with several characters I am much better with and whose builds are viable in far more places. But that only works because there are sufficient squishy mobs to keep me in reapershroud at all times. Go in to PvP, WvW, or any boss-based PvE content, and reaper is suddenly a high damage class without access to its high damage.

[Castitalus.6359]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Castitalus.6359 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Axl.8924 said:Obtenna I disagree with the idea.Personally I think a game like GW2 should expand gameplay of the class and offer many ways to play power reaper.

I was even upset i couldn't play power ranger because, i was having so much fun.I can understand having everyone be good at everything can lead to convoluted classes, but the people here are not asking for that, they are asking for something that already exists to be buffed so it can be balanced

Disagree all you like, but the way you think just isn't real; Anet simply doesn't develop the game like that. Furthermore ... NOTHING prevents you from playing whatever you want. It's only your perception of what you SHOULD play because of metapushers; maybe if you were less a sheep and just played what you like because ... you like it instead of what your told because of 'damage', you would enjoy the game more; I know I do.

Anyways, I continue to casually lurk this thread ... seeing how close play out to what I expect to see. Keeping this one in my back pocket for the NEXT time people have some unrealistic expectations for the game development direction.

Yes, how dare people ask for buffs on a class that needs it. It's completely fine design to be told to reroll to a new class for high end group content.

Seems to me that asking really isn't working out for necros is it? I'm never surprised these desires don't come to fruition ... simply asking isn't enough. Personally, I don't think the idea that you start with the solution, then find a problem it fixes. That's the approach people are buying into with the 'power reaper buff' idea.

Well then, what do you suggest? Tear down every suggestion with a "Necros are fine, it's you that's the problem."? Cause that's what I see you do. Constantly. You might buy into the idea that being outshined on nearly every aspect by other classes is good class design and isn't a problem that needs a solution, but I personally don't agree.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Castitalus.6359 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Axl.8924 said:Obtenna I disagree with the idea.Personally I think a game like GW2 should expand gameplay of the class and offer many ways to play power reaper.

I was even upset i couldn't play power ranger because, i was having so much fun.I can understand having everyone be good at everything can lead to convoluted classes, but the people here are not asking for that, they are asking for something that already exists to be buffed so it can be balanced

Disagree all you like, but the way you think just isn't real; Anet simply doesn't develop the game like that. Furthermore ... NOTHING prevents you from playing whatever you want. It's only your perception of what you SHOULD play because of metapushers; maybe if you were less a sheep and just played what you like because ... you like it instead of what your told because of 'damage', you would enjoy the game more; I know I do.

Anyways, I continue to casually lurk this thread ... seeing how close play out to what I expect to see. Keeping this one in my back pocket for the NEXT time people have some unrealistic expectations for the game development direction.

Yes, how dare people ask for buffs on a class that needs it. It's completely fine design to be told to reroll to a new class for high end group content.

Seems to me that asking really isn't working out for necros is it? I'm never surprised these desires don't come to fruition ... simply asking isn't enough. Personally, I don't think the idea that you start with the solution, then find a problem it fixes. That's the approach people are buying into with the 'power reaper buff' idea.

This is why I suggest playing these inferior builds and shove them down every ones throats until all the non Necromancers start blowing up the Forums with complaints about us until we get fixed.

Lets say you live a non META lifestyle would you suggest that these people just start going to a mainstream church, date and marry the opposite sex, only have mainstream pets like cats or dogs, have kids they might not want?

A lot of minorities got their equal treatment because they made waves and challenged the status quo, and that is what we should do as well as Power Reapers.

[Axl.8924]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Axl.8924 said:Obtenna I disagree with the idea.Personally I think a game like GW2 should expand gameplay of the class and offer many ways to play power reaper.

I was even upset i couldn't play power ranger because, i was having so much fun.I can understand having everyone be good at everything can lead to convoluted classes, but the people here are not asking for that, they are asking for something that already exists to be buffed so it can be balanced

Disagree all you like, but the way you think just isn't real; Anet simply doesn't develop the game like that. Furthermore ... NOTHING prevents you from playing whatever you want. It's only your perception of what you SHOULD play because of metapushers; maybe if you were less a sheep and just played what you like because ... you like it instead of what your told because of 'damage', you would enjoy the game more; I know I do.

Anyways, I continue to casually lurk this thread ... seeing how close play out to what I expect to see. Keeping this one in my back pocket for the NEXT time people have some unrealistic expectations for the game development direction.

We are talking about a style of play style that is non existent.Some people love to be power and want to go into reaper, others love condi.I do this not because i am brainwashed or anything, i truly want the game to be enjoyable on multiple levels.Also:Why shouldn't reaper be good at power? Remember pre pof? Reaper>Condi WHY? why can't reaper be power now that we know? its loads of fun.

[Zenith.7301]

@Conncept.7638 said:Power reaper doesn't need buffs so much as the necromancer needs to gain shroud without having to constantly kill mobs, reaper or otherwise.

The idea behind the reaper was that your high point of damage would be inside reaper shroud, as opposed to that being your tank and attrition state, which really does work great in a lot of place. I cruise through the HoT maps on my power reaper easier and faster than with several characters I am much better with and whose builds are viable in far more places. But that only works because there are sufficient squishy mobs to keep me in reapershroud at all times. Go in to PvP, WvW, or any boss-based PvE content, and reaper is suddenly a high damage class without access to its high damage.

REAPER SHROUD IS NOT HIGH DAMAGE. IT IS A DPS LOSS TO CAMPING GREATSWORD AUTOATTACKS AND GRAVEDIGGER.

THIS IS WHY DPS METERS SHOULD BE MANDATORY FOR EVERYONE. So crap like this doesn't get spouted right and left.

@Mea.5491 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Zietlogik.6208 said:The 30% speed of shadows nerf for shroud swapping really hurt how enjoyable power reaper was to play

You never entered shroud in serious PvE outside of using RS5 and 3 to break a defiance bar, so that nerf is only relevant in PvP. Shroud outside scourge has always been a DPS loss compared to camping weapons in PvE.

I'm not sure what "serious PvE" is but as an open world player (I play open world seriously!), I use Shroud... a lot. I actually love Shroud as a defence mechanic and I miss the -30% cd and the slower decay in my build. I find Shroud fun but it just doesn't feel right after the August 8 nerfs.

Open world isn't serious PvE. It's pretty obvious, content that you can't just waltz in on your crappy low DPS build and have your minions facetank to victory because open world PvE has no mechanics whatsoever with critical, unforgiving points of failure let alone any expectation of flawless group coordination like fractal challenge motes or raids.

[Axl.8924]

Obtenna why are you so opposed to helping power necro? are you a power necro hater/All necro hater?If you got a car that is malfunctioning, you don't leave it there and pretend its fine, you go and get it fixed.If you pretend things are fine and don't fix it, the problems become worse.

[Obtena.7952]

@Axl.8924 said:Obtenna why are you so opposed to helping power necro? are you a power necro hater/All necro hater?If you got a car that is malfunctioning, you don't leave it there and pretend its fine, you go and get it fixed.If you pretend things are fine and don't fix it, the problems become worse.

I'm not at all.. I think it's people wanting reaper to be meta with a power build that is the opposition ... because it's not necessary for power reaper to be meta to help necro power builds; I can see why their suggestion is misplaced because they have particular emotional attachment to reaper and the concept they associate with it. Again, what is the problem you are trying to address here? From what I can tell, you want power reaper to be meta ... what makes power reaper not being meta a problem in the first place?

Let's go back in this thread to the first post ... people were crapping all over the 10% damage buff with the reaper trait change ... but that does helps power reaper ... it's even a buff that we got.

So let's not beat around the bush here. The interest has nothing to do with 'helping power necro', it's about making power reaper meta ... those are NOT the same things. let me put it this way ... why in the hell would I want ALL of my damage buffs put into a single espec in the first place? I do want power NECRO buffed, no I don't think it should be misplaced into reaper and no, from what I observe based on the history of this game and what people have said is necessary, it will never be enough of a buff to make reaper meta either.

[Axl.8924]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Axl.8924 said:Obtenna why are you so opposed to helping power necro? are you a power necro hater/All necro hater?If you got a car that is malfunctioning, you don't leave it there and pretend its fine, you go and get it fixed.If you pretend things are fine and don't fix it, the problems become worse.

I'm not at all.. I think it's people wanting reaper to be meta with a power build that is the opposition ... because it's not necessary for power reaper to be meta to help necro power builds. Again, what is the problem you are trying to address here? From what I can tell, you want power reaper to be meta ... what makes power reaper not being meta a problem in the first place?

Let's go back in this thread ... people were crapping all over the 10% damage buff with the reaper trait change ... that helps power reaper ...

So let's not beat around the bush here. The interest has nothing to do with 'helping power necro', it's about making power reaper meta ... those are NOT the same things.

Because power reaper is another type of play style for pve.

Other classes have multiple viable choices.Rangers have condi healing and now power is supposedly viable with soulbeast.Mesmers can go condi for sure not sure about power eles got power condi and i hear healing is not as good as rangers.

Necros currently have nothing viable for pve raids.

Even when we had scourge before pve nerfs, we at least had condi which we are always pigeonholed into, and people love that play style which ANET dangled in front of us like a carrot, so why not make it a reality since its already a build thats legit?

[Obtena.7952]

That makes no sense to me ... whether power reaper is another type of playstyle has nothing to do with making it meta. There is no connection there. Playstyle being different does not dictate what is meta, clearly since there are MANY different playstyles on every class and not every class has meta build OR if they do, is any particular playstyle more preferred for meta than any other.

Again ... necro's don't have anything viable for PVE raids? I don't see what makes power reaper t any more likely to be THE preferred raid spec compared to any other playstyle necro's have. You're not solving that problem in a very compelling or conclusive way. maybe I'm just a crazy old guy but it seems to me that if there is a damage buff, it makes much more sense to NOT lock it up in a espec so that we DO have a chance to get not just one, but maybe a number of builds that approach raid viability ... I guess I'm just not close minded enough to see the vision of a meta power reaper.

[Harry Foud.1935]

What is a buff?

[Axl.8924]

I just thought obtenna, that if scourge is going to be support, maybe we could turn reaper into our dps spec? that is unless the dps of scourge becomes viable enough that it can compete with other classes.This also saves the mods and designers by making everything around scourge balanced around support.They said their intentions was for scourge to be heavy support and they managed to mess up every build, so its too late now.Reaper is pretty fun and i had a lot of fun running around using it.

[Substatic.6958]

@Obtena.7952 said:That makes no sense to me ... whether power reaper is another type of playstyle has nothing to do with making it meta. There is no connection there. Playstyle being different does not dictate what is meta, clearly since there are MANY different playstyles on every class and not every class has meta build OR if they do, is any particular playstyle more preferred for meta than any other.

Again ... necro's don't have anything viable for PVE raids? I don't see what makes power reaper t any more likely to be THE preferred raid spec compared to any other playstyle necro's have. You're not solving that problem in a very compelling or conclusive way. maybe I'm just a crazy old guy but it seems to me that if there is a damage buff, it makes much more sense to NOT lock it up in a espec so that we DO have a chance to get not just one, but maybe a number of builds that approach raid viability ... I guess I'm just not close minded enough to see the vision of a meta power reaper.

Top builds doing 30-50% more dmg than power(Reaper) is far from simply being "not meta". That's horrific, going by any RPG standards.

People confuse "meta" and simply "good" a lot for GW2, probably because it has extremely poor balance and a lot of "fans".

[Obtena.7952]

@Substatic.6958 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:That makes no sense to me ... whether power reaper is another type of playstyle has nothing to do with making it meta. There is no connection there. Playstyle being different does not dictate what is meta, clearly since there are MANY different playstyles on every class and not every class has meta build OR if they do, is any particular playstyle more preferred for meta than any other.

Again ... necro's don't have anything viable for PVE raids? I don't see what makes power reaper t any more likely to be THE preferred raid spec compared to any other playstyle necro's have. You're not solving that problem in a very compelling or conclusive way. maybe I'm just a crazy old guy but it seems to me that if there is a damage buff, it makes much more sense to NOT lock it up in a espec so that we DO have a chance to get not just one, but maybe a number of builds that approach raid viability ... I guess I'm just not close minded enough to see the vision of a meta power reaper.

Top builds doing 30-50% more dmg than power(Reaper) is far from simply being "not meta". That's horrific, going by any RPG standards.

People confuse "meta" and simply "good" a lot for GW2, probably because it has extremely poor balance and a lot of "fans".

That's all true, but it doesn't diminish anything I've said. I'm not against any damage buff that might happen, but that's not what people are asking for in this thread either.

@Axl.8924 said:I just thought obtenna, that if scourge is going to be support, maybe we could turn reaper into our dps spec? that is unless the dps of scourge becomes viable enough that it can compete with other classes.This also saves the mods and designers by making everything around scourge balanced around support.They said their intentions was for scourge to be heavy support and they managed to mess up every build, so its too late now.Reaper is pretty fun and i had a lot of fun running around using it.

here is the ironic thing about that ... this thread was made WHILE Scourge WAS a high damage spec (until it was nerfed recently). So this didn't have anything to do with a 'viable enough' spec for DPS to do raids .. .it has everything to do with wanting power reaper to be THE power and THE meta build for necros. This is think is highly unlikely, unreasonable and undesirable.

[Conncept.7638]

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Conncept.7638 said:Power reaper doesn't need buffs so much as the necromancer needs to gain shroud without having to constantly kill mobs, reaper or otherwise.

The idea behind the reaper was that your high point of damage would be inside reaper shroud, as opposed to that being your tank and attrition state, which really does work great in a lot of place. I cruise through the HoT maps on my power reaper easier and faster than with several characters I am much better with and whose builds are viable in far more places. But that only works because there are sufficient squishy mobs to keep me in reapershroud at all times. Go in to PvP, WvW, or any boss-based PvE content, and reaper is suddenly a high damage class without access to its high damage.

REAPER SHROUD IS NOT HIGH DAMAGE. IT IS A DPS LOSS TO CAMPING GREATSWORD AUTOATTACKS AND GRAVEDIGGER.

THIS IS WHY DPS METERS SHOULD BE MANDATORY FOR EVERYONE. So crap like this doesn't get spouted right and left.

And you've tested that how? You can't stay in reaper shroud long enough to calculate it's DPS under the raid conditions everyone else's DPS is tested under.

And checking the wiki, reapershrouds auto does 731+2.75(power) over 1.5 seconds while greatsword auto does 1452+3.6(power) over 2.5 seconds. Plug those into an even 1000 power, and that makes 5052 for the reapershroud per chain completion, and 3952 per completion of the greatsword auto. But wait! We're talking damage per second, not per chain completion, and a second of the greatsword auto is 66% of that total, while a second of the greatsword auto is only 40% of the total. Calculating that, 40% of the greatswords 5052 is only 2020 dps, while 66% of the reapershroud 3952 is 2608. Making that the greatsword auto a DPS loss of 22% over the reapershroud auto.

Or, in short, I'm not the one spouting off incorrect information, and you're the one parroting information you assume is correct without checking your facts.

[Muchacho.2390]

@Conncept.7638 said:

And checking the wiki, reapershrouds auto does 731+2.75(power) over 1.5 seconds while greatsword auto does 1452+3.6(power) over 2.5 seconds. Plug those into an even 1000 power, and that makes 5052 for the reapershroud per chain completion, and 3952 per completion of the greatsword auto. But wait! We're talking damage per second, not per chain completion, and a second of the greatsword auto is 66% of that total, while a second of the greatsword auto is only 40% of the total. Calculating that, 40% of the greatswords 5052 is only 2020 dps, while 66% of the reapershroud 3952 is 2608. Making that the greatsword auto a DPS loss of 22% over the reapershroud auto.

Or, in short, I'm not the one spouting off incorrect information, and you're the one parroting information you assume is correct without checking your facts.

If you use the numbers on the wiki you should use the correct ones.

The reapershroud auto is actually 2.37 seconds (see https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_Rend under notes) long and with a coeffiecnt of 2.75 that gives a coeffectent per second of 1.16. For greatsword its 2.88 second (see https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dusk_Strike under notes) and a coeffecent of 3.6 which gives a coeffecent per second of 1.25. Since the damage of a greatsword and a hammer (reapershroud uses a hammer for damage calculation) is the same on average we can use the coeffecents per second for a direct dps comparison and since 1.25>1.16 we can conclude that the greatsword auto does indeed more damage then the reapershroud auto.

So yes, you are incorrect because you use the wrong numbers.