I know everyone forgot about reaper with Scourge, but power reaper still needs buffs.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Adding my name to the list who wont be forgotten. Sticking with playstyle and waiting for viable buff.

[kKagari.6804]

@Zenith.7301 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:I'm running some numbers at the moment. Power scourge actually seems...really powerful.

Because of the shade bug. Once that gets fixed it plummets.

Is the developer saying shade damage shouldnt stack between shades or shade and scourge too? Because if it's the latter, I can live with.

[Maunzi.3764]

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't think it's fair to say that a 10% increase in damage barely affects performance. 10% is not an insignificant amount of damage on a power build ... it's 10%.

The fact that it's not THE meta power build has more to do with Scourge being off balance than Reaper being underbalanced.

That's a lie, and you know it. Scourge is fine in PvE, damage wise, and is simply performing at good pre-PoF levels in actual fights. Only idiots think benchmarks actually show real performance. Check actual logs of actual fights, and you see why even qt doesn't think scourge is even usable in over half the fights.

Reaper's performance IS barely affected by the 10%. These 10% were insignificant, because of uptime, and low base damage. Facts don't lie. I understand that you're angry when a necromancer isn't a free kill for you, but you gotta deal with that.

[pah.4931]

PvP season ends soon and with it will come more balances. Whether or not that will mean anything for Power Reaper remains to be seen.

If I had to guess... 5% damage on Axe AA............

[Crinn.7864]

@pah.4931 said:PvP season ends soon and with it will come more balances. Whether or not that will mean anything for Power Reaper remains to be seen.

If I had to guess... 5% damage on Axe AA............

I doubt there will be any changes for power reaper. This first patch will likely be purely focused on toning down some of the extremes of the new specs.

[Vitali.5039]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@pah.4931 said:PvP season ends soon and with it will come more balances. Whether or not that will mean anything for Power Reaper remains to be seen.

If I had to guess... 5% damage on Axe AA............

I doubt there will be any changes for power reaper. This first patch will likely be purely focused on toning down some of the extremes of the new specs.

If not new changes they could at least revert PvP nerf as Chilling Nova damage, Chilling Victory ICD and "Rise!" CD.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Vitali.5039 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@pah.4931 said:PvP season ends soon and with it will come more balances. Whether or not that will mean anything for Power Reaper remains to be seen.

If I had to guess... 5% damage on Axe AA............

I doubt there will be any changes for power reaper. This first patch will likely be purely focused on toning down some of the extremes of the new specs.

If not new changes they could at least revert PvP nerf as Chilling Nova damage, Chilling Victory ICD and "Rise!" CD.

To "revert" is not something that anet's devs like to do.

[Obtena.7952]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't think it's fair to say that a 10% increase in damage barely affects performance. 10% is not an insignificant amount of damage on a power build ... it's 10%.

The fact that it's not THE meta power build has more to do with Scourge being off balance than Reaper being underbalanced.

It's not 10%.

You have to consider uptime. The trait will not have 100% uptime because outside reaper shroud 5 you virtually don't have much in the way of chill, and in a raid nobody else but power revenant, which is also not viable, cannot upkeep chill.

To give you some understanding, greatsword chill requires that you autoattack and cast nothing else to maintain that chill the final chain applies. That's how short it is. If you use grave digger or greatsword 3, that chill uptime drops easily below 50% uptime. At under 50% health on an opponent where you're spamming gravedigger, you have 0% chill uptime.

That means the real value of that awful trait is realistically ~3-5% damage increase, and once a target hits 50% health and you start spamming gravedigger, the trait gives ZERO benefit since there's no chill.

That's awesome ... people complain Reaper doesn't do more damage ... but can't find additional ways to chill foes to get the 10% damage boost they just got in a trait. I'm sure Anet are smacking their foreheads right about now. I can assure you that maintaining perma chill on a foe is not hard to do, nor does it require giving up anything to do so.

It is interesting though ... even if you did get a flat 10% buff to DPS on reaper, we know it's not enough; it's clear you are talking about raids. The fact is that it's going to take much more to make power reaper into a raid-level damage. The other guy was right ... no one cares about 10% more damage if it doesn't do that .. and that's why power reaper is never going to get the buffs that are going to make you happy, because your interest isn't about reaper damage, it's about reapers in raids. Check this guy out ... he just want's reaper to be meta. I got news for him; Scourge is about as good as it gets, and that's going to get hit soon too. 10% should sound like a bounty at this point ...

@Crinn.7864 said:

Taking trash tier damage and increasing it by 10% still results in trash tier damage. Also power reaper being bad has literally nothing to do with scourge. If scourge is nerfed, reaper doesn't become meta, rather if scourge is nerfed the entire necromancer profession ceases to be competitive.

This isn't even a PvE thing, power reaper is also suffering from trash damage in sPvP aswell, because it does less damage than other brawlers while also having worse sustain than other brawlers.

That 10% on chill buff you crap on ... THAT'S about the scale of the buffs you're going to see; that represents Anet's stomach for increasing Reaper damage. If that doesn't propel it into power reaper raid build level, I don't think much more will.

This is why I refuse to not only play another build or another class for that matter because why should I show respect for a game mode by completely dismantling my play style and character theme if ANet doesn't have enough respect for Power Reapers to adjust them enough to get a seat at that table.

You did that the second you bought this game ... or any other MMO for that matter. Games change all the time that cause players to rethink their builds or rotations or gear or whatever else the player controls. This is no different. There is nothing exceptional about game changes affecting how players play the game. Your playstyle is not dismantled at all in all frankness; nothing prevents you from continuing to play the build you enjoy. Your simply to stubborn to play the builds you know will give you more damage because of your ideal, romantic idea about how the game should evolve without affecting how you play it ... which is completely removed from reality.

I did that the second I bought the game, how so I fail to see any thugs busting down my door forcing my to play a Ranger, or forcing me to re spec as Scourge, cool story bro.

I don't get this statement ... if you bought the game and didn't think changes to it would affect how you play it or how you feel about what you are playing, then you aren't very experienced in playing MMO's or you aren't being realistic. How's that for a cool bro story? #stayunreal

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Loopgru.1026 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Exactly ... exactly my point. Targeting 'meta-level' or 'raid-level' damage output is simply NOT realistic,

Why? Power DPS can be meta competitive (see hammer guard or rev prior to August). Why should reaper not have the same potential? Because it can be tankier? When the entire premise in PvE is that survivability is best accomplished through avoidance and active defenses, who cares? Want to balance it for PvP? Tie it to decimate defenses and have damage ramp hinge on vulnerability stacks, them split as necessary.

Also ... I'm not sure if it's a 'clever' idea or just a coincidence, but I think the idea that this requires players to choose between gravedigger spam and chill upkeep is ... an interesting development.

Given that the skill maintains its reset below 50%, I think you're reaching here.

Lots of things CAN be ... that's not a relevant question. The real answer you are looking for is that it's simply not necessary for Anet to give us all a whole bunch of meta builds. Just because the meta build for a class isn't the build you want it to be is really not a compelling reason to get it changed, nor does it make sense to request all that effort to essentially give an equivalent damage build to the meta. There simply isn't any reason to, other than the whim of particular players.

It's necessary if they want to retain players. There is nothing more absolutely frustrating to a player, than their favorite class being trash in their favorite gamemode.

No it's not ... because every MMO works like this. If there was an MMO where your choices were immune to games changes, then everyone that cared about never having to change would be playing it. The fact is that this isn't GW2, nor is it most other MMO's I'm familiar with. It's simply a fundamental part of what you sign up for when you play an MMO. It's only frustrating because you didn't have a reasonable expectation for how game changes affect gameplay. Game changes affecting gameplay is not a unique feature to GW2.

[Loopgru.1026]

@Obtena.7952 said:

I'm puzzled.

Why are you here? We know why we are- this is a bunch of people who like a particular play style in this game who are asking for it to be given a balance pass to be a more reasonable competitive choice. Why are you? Do you have a specific bone to pick with power reaper in one game mode or another that makes objecting to this very idea important enough to waste time on?

[Zenith.7301]

@Loopgru.1026 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

I'm puzzled.

Why are you here? We know why we are- this is a bunch of people who like a particular play style in this game who are asking for it to be given a balance pass to be a more reasonable competitive choice. Why are you? Do you have a specific bone to pick with power reaper in one game mode or another that makes objecting to this very idea important enough to waste time on?

Obtena, if you look at his/her post history, tends to take over threads with cryptic, scattered tangents. Do not feed it and it will go away.

[Ara.4569]

@Obtena.7952

I'm trying to understand.Are you on some kind of crusade against people who expect balance team to do their job ?Are you saying it's only natural for MMOGs to have garbage level balance ?If you were a board administrator, would you fire balance team because it's a waste of resource ?(Speaking in general because, in our case, ANet might receive state subventions for hiring mentally challenged family members, which is the only rational explanation I could think of.)

[Obtena.7952]

@Ara.4569 said:@Obtena.7952

I'm trying to understand.Are you on some kind of crusade against people who expect balance team to do their job ?Are you saying it's only natural for MMOGs to have garbage level balance ?If you were a board administrator, would you fire balance team because it's a waste of resource ?(Speaking in general because, in our case, ANet might receive state subventions for hiring mentally challenged family members, which is the only rational explanation I could think of.)

OH I'm glad you asked because it's not like I haven't been asked this question many times and I was more than happy to enlighten some people based on the reality of the game's history and the dev's behaviors. I only need to ask you one provocative question:

In the history of this game, what game changes have occurred that convinces you Anet is moving towards a character building system where there is balanced DPS across all classes and builds equivalent in damage (or in a reasonable range) within a class?

I don't need anything by my eyes to see that whatever this 'balancing team' is using as a measure, it's not inline with any concept of equivalence in damage that people typically have. The evidence is numerous ... the lack of DPS balance between classes, the narrow set of optimized compositions, and finally, relevant to this thread, the lack of equivalent DPS builds within a class and it's elite specs. So maybe you like the romantic idea that what you think as balance is happening. If it is, it appears it's on a several-decades long roadmap based on how slow it's being executed.

Frankly, I wouldn't fire them because I don't know what their idea of balance is; I just can plainly see it's not related to equivalent DPS over a wide range of classes and specs within a class. That much is clear.

@Loopgru.1026 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

I'm puzzled.

Why are you here? We know why we are- this is a bunch of people who like a particular play style in this game who are asking for it to be given a balance pass to be a more reasonable competitive choice. Why are you? Do you have a specific bone to pick with power reaper in one game mode or another that makes objecting to this very idea important enough to waste time on?

I think it's got something to do with helping people realize their reality with a walkthrough of game history. The only bone I have to pick is when the ideas like this support the concept of pushing meta on players. These players arguments are largely self defeating to begin with "I really love playing build X and I can play it well and do what I want with it ... but it's not meta so QQ!!!" Those players are largely missing the whole point of why we have thematic variety in the first place. It's NOT to get a whole bunch of equivalent DPS builds; that's never going to be a goal in a game with this scale of options. If Anet wanted to deliver a game where everyone did the same damage, we wouldn't have 9 classes and elite specs and different gear prefixes ... with choice also comes deviation. That's just MMO reality.

[Loopgru.1026]

@Obtena.7952 said:I think it's got something to do with helping people realize their reality with a walkthrough of game history.

Allow me to be the first to say thanks, but I don't need a pedantic framing of MMO balance history here.

Those players are largely missing the whole point of why we have thematic variety in the first place. It's NOT to get a whole bunch of equivalent DPS builds; that's never going to be a goal in a game with this scale of options.

"Thematic variety" and mechanical balance are two totally different things. Thematic variety we have in spades, from glassy tricky mesmers to immovable object warriors and two button staff ele to Chopin etude engi. They all look and play wildly differently, and that's a good thing. They all have strengths and weaknesses, both across and within game modes- and that's good, too. But as it stands now, this particular specialization doesn't have a home anywhere- with the advent of Scourge it has been unseated even from its last remaining bastion, well bombing WvW.

So yes... That should be addressed. Personally I could give two kittens about competitive PvE, but the spec should be usable somewhere.

[Ara.4569]

@Obtena.7952 said:In the history of this game, what game changes have occurred that convinces you Anet is moving towards a character building system where there is balanced DPS across all classes and builds equivalent in damage (or in a reasonable range) within a class?Strictly speaking, none. And that's infuriating because I was sold 5 years ago when I saw that PvP didn't require any kind of grind, be it XP, gear, runes... And that everyone was put on an apparent equal foot. I instantly thought it was E-sport material... Took me 2 years to escape from delusion.

Well, not entirely, I still hope we can force them to act upon strong public opinion. I have to, because, for me, there's no other PvP game that has interesting combat mechanics, no gear grind, no p2w, etc... So I just keep trying to incite players to be more vocal about their discontent, to broadcast it on all available communication channels, to make a mess on forums, reddit, whatever... (I try so hard that I was permanently banned from the old forums. :kissing_wink:)

I would also personally give to a crowdfunded balance project so they hire a REAL balance team, for free! But communication is so bad, there's no possible discussion. They are not open, we don't even know what they think or if they are aware of anything that is happening in their own game. Maybe they are just very arrogant, or lazy, or both.Or, they live in their own little abstract world full of fun concepts, high AF, and stay there, because when they come back in the real world to materialize those concepts, they fail miserably.

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't need anything by my eyes to see that whatever this 'balancing team' is using as a measure, it's not inline with any concept of equivalence in damage that people typically have. The evidence is numerous ... the lack of DPS balance between classes, the narrow set of optimized compositions, and finally, relevant to this thread, the lack of equivalent DPS builds within a class and it's elite specs. So maybe you like the romantic idea that what you think as balance is happening. If it is, it appears it's on a several-decades long roadmap based on how slow it's being executed.

Frankly, I wouldn't fire them because I don't know what their idea of balance is; I just can plainly see it's not related to equivalent DPS over a wide range of classes and specs within a class. That much is clear.

I agree on all counts, except I would fire them. Well, they also design specs so I would just give the balance job to a competent team, or any team, just not them. It's absurd to have the same people do design and balance, 2 entirely opposite jobs.

So I have a better understanding now: it seems to me that you blame people for being delusional. I respect that.

[Obtena.7952]

@Loopgru.1026 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I think it's got something to do with helping people realize their reality with a walkthrough of game history.

Allow me to be the first to say thanks, but I don't need a pedantic framing of MMO balance history here.

Those players are largely missing the whole point of why we have thematic variety in the first place. It's NOT to get a whole bunch of equivalent DPS builds; that's never going to be a goal in a game with this scale of options.

"Thematic variety" and mechanical balance are two totally different things. Thematic variety we have in spades, from glassy tricky mesmers to immovable object warriors and two button staff ele to Chopin etude engi. They all look and play wildly differently, and that's a good thing. They all have strengths and weaknesses, both across and within game modes- and that's good, too. But as it stands now, this particular specialization doesn't have a home anywhere- with the advent of Scourge it has been unseated even from its last remaining bastion, well bombing WvW.

So yes... That should be addressed. Personally I could give two kittens about competitive PvE, but the spec should be usable

somewhere

.

Clearly you do and so do others. If you used your knowledge of the MMO balance history, you would understand what's reasonable and what Anet (and other game devs) actually DO; get a sense of how they think. I get that thematic variety and mechanical balance are different, but that's not the issue here. The idea that a particular specialization/build/whatever has a 'home' isn't even what's the problem being discussed here. It's not even relevant. Do you honestly think Anet contemplates what 'homes' all these elite specs have? You think they would do that, but not have damage balancing? That's an amusing thought.

"No, we don't balance to ensure the different classes and specs fall in a certain reasonable range of damage ... but let's make sure this PARTICULAR build has a home so people don't feel screwed over when the lack of damage range balancing affects it"

OK, sure. That's simply just more wishful thinking. The evidence Anet doesn't do this? The same evidence for not having damage range balance ... because you don't see it. It might not occur to you but it IS enough that the build is simply 'fun to play' as a 'home'. You might not think so, but people do play builds they think are fun to play, regardless of some status or rank in performance ... and that IS all a spec/build/whatever needs to be. Anything else is just nice to have.

[vicious.5683]

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Loopgru.1026 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

I'm puzzled.

Why are you here? We know why we are- this is a bunch of people who like a particular play style in this game who are asking for it to be given a balance pass to be a more reasonable competitive choice. Why are you? Do you have a specific bone to pick with power reaper in one game mode or another that makes objecting to this very idea important enough to waste time on?

Obtena, if you look at his/her post history, tends to take over threads with cryptic, scattered tangents. Do not feed it and it will go away.

We need a "Don't Feed The Troll" sign.

[vicious.5683]

@Obtena.7952 said:

I think it's got something to do with helping people realize their reality with a walkthrough of game history. The only bone I have to pick is when the ideas like this support the concept of pushing meta on players. These players arguments are largely self defeating to begin with "I really love playing build X and I can play it well and do what I want with it ... but it's not meta so QQ!!!" Those players are largely missing the whole point of why we have thematic variety in the first place. It's NOT to get a whole bunch of equivalent DPS builds; that's never going to be a goal in a game with this scale of options. If Anet wanted to deliver a game where everyone did the same damage, we wouldn't have 9 classes and elite specs and different gear prefixes ... with choice also comes deviation. That's just MMO reality.

Well, that's not how Anet advertised this game.Anet said "play the way you like" "we have no holy trinity" "any class can perform well in any role" and stuff like that.We are not asking for a specific build to be meta. We are asking POWER REAPER to be meta. I wouldn't mind to switch gear but I do mind to buy a new xpac to be able to be meta. And now they are nerfing Scourges too, like they did with reaper soon after HOT went live.

And for the love of god, stop being so fucking obnoxious. There is absolutely no reason for Power Reaper not being part of the raids meta, or meta in general. It just show lack of imagination and dedication from devs.

[Lahmia.2193]

@Obtena.7952Just curious, what is your view on Power Scourge currently being higher dps than Power Reaper?

[Obtena.7952]

I don't have a problem with that ... particularly because PoF is not even out 1 month and Anet has already indicated something is going to be done with stacking Shade damage. I don't believe that's the only thing going to happen based on how Anet handled HoT balancing.

@vicious.5683 said:Well, that's not how Anet advertised this game.Anet said "play the way you like" "we have no holy trinity" "any class can perform well in any role" and stuff like that.

I'm not sure you got the context right, but to be clear, nothing stops you from playing builds you want to play and be successful with them, except players and their own hangups.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Stay strong all, keep the posts and threads flying. No 1 can dilute our argument or confuse the fact tht power reap requires.....something.

[kKagari.6804]

Look at what Arenanet said during the AMA:

What is the long-term goal for power vs. condi balance in PvE – Power is intended to be more spike damage-centric. Condi more ramping sustained damage. Currently there are some issues with how quickly condition damage can be spiked up, negating the benefits of power damage. If I presented you with a power skill that dealt 1,000 damage instantaneously and a condition one that dealt 1,000 damage over 4 seconds there wouldn’t be a question about what build to choose; you’d go with the instant option every time. Not counting other effects, condition skills must inflict more damage over their duration in order to make power vs. condi into a real choice. Moving forward we’ll be aiming changes to bring a bit more parity between the options through the ramp time and using that to emphasize some of the differences. That said, a fundamental issue is that foes whose health pools allow them to survive a significant amount of time (beyond the point of condition stack ramping) are going to favor condition builds unless they specifically have mechanics which deal with conditions.

[Zenith.7301]

@kKagari.6804 said:Look at what Arenanet said during the AMA:

What is the long-term goal for power vs. condi balance in PvE – Power is intended to be more spike damage-centric. Condi more ramping sustained damage. Currently there are some issues with how quickly condition damage can be spiked up, negating the benefits of power damage. If I presented you with a power skill that dealt 1,000 damage instantaneously and a condition one that dealt 1,000 damage over 4 seconds there wouldn’t be a question about what build to choose; you’d go with the instant option every time. Not counting other effects, condition skills must inflict more damage over their duration in order to make power vs. condi into a real choice. Moving forward we’ll be aiming changes to bring a bit more parity between the options through the ramp time and using that to emphasize some of the differences. That said, a fundamental issue is that foes whose health pools allow them to survive a significant amount of time (beyond the point of condition stack ramping) are going to favor condition builds unless they specifically have mechanics which deal with conditions.

Which is a clueless statement because condi also has the advantage of applying the damage in full upon landing the skill instead of a channel being interrupted on a power skill like gravedigger or whirling wrath. So condi specs lose less from being forced off target.

That should upset you, because what they're saying is they're gonna do more crappy balance design like mordrem husks and the old fractal armor scaling where they make these mobs that make you useless depending on what spec you play in order to encourage "variety", but it's a meaningless gesture because all it encourages is situational stacking of specs like how necros used to be stacked before they had to go and fix the armor scaling on fractals so power specs would stop being kicked.

[kKagari.6804]

@Zenith.7301 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:Look at what Arenanet said during the AMA:

What is the long-term goal for power vs. condi balance in PvE – Power is intended to be more spike damage-centric. Condi more ramping sustained damage. Currently there are some issues with how quickly condition damage can be spiked up, negating the benefits of power damage. If I presented you with a power skill that dealt 1,000 damage instantaneously and a condition one that dealt 1,000 damage over 4 seconds there wouldn’t be a question about what build to choose; you’d go with the instant option every time. Not counting other effects, condition skills must inflict more damage over their duration in order to make power vs. condi into a real choice. Moving forward we’ll be aiming changes to bring a bit more parity between the options through the ramp time and using that to emphasize some of the differences. That said, a fundamental issue is that foes whose health pools allow them to survive a significant amount of time (beyond the point of condition stack ramping) are going to favor condition builds unless they specifically have mechanics which deal with conditions.

Which is a clueless statement because condi also has the advantage of applying the damage in full upon landing the skill instead of a channel being interrupted on a power skill like gravedigger or whirling wrath. So condi specs lose less from being forced off target.

That should upset you, because what they're saying is they're gonna do more crappy balance design like mordrem husks and the old fractal armor scaling where they make these mobs that make you useless depending on what spec you play in order to encourage "variety", but it's a meaningless gesture because all it encourages is situational stacking of specs like how necros used to be stacked before they had to go and fix the armor scaling on fractals so power specs would stop being kicked.

Oh, I'm just putting it out there, has no bearing on me really. Seemed relevant to this conversation.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't think it's fair to say that a 10% increase in damage barely affects performance. 10% is not an insignificant amount of damage on a power build ... it's 10%.

The fact that it's not THE meta power build has more to do with Scourge being off balance than Reaper being underbalanced.

It's not 10%.

You have to consider uptime. The trait will not have 100% uptime because outside reaper shroud 5 you virtually don't have much in the way of chill, and in a raid nobody else but power revenant, which is also not viable, cannot upkeep chill.

To give you some understanding, greatsword chill requires that you autoattack and cast nothing else to maintain that chill the final chain applies. That's how short it is. If you use grave digger or greatsword 3, that chill uptime drops easily below 50% uptime. At under 50% health on an opponent where you're spamming gravedigger, you have 0% chill uptime.

That means the real value of that awful trait is realistically ~3-5% damage increase, and once a target hits 50% health and you start spamming gravedigger, the trait gives ZERO benefit since there's no chill.

That's awesome ... people complain Reaper doesn't do more damage ... but can't find additional ways to chill foes to get the 10% damage boost they just got in a trait. I'm sure Anet are smacking their foreheads right about now. I can assure you that maintaining perma chill on a foe is not hard to do, nor does it require giving up anything to do so.

It is interesting though ... even if you did get a flat 10% buff to DPS on reaper, we know it's not enough; it's clear you are talking about raids. The fact is that it's going to take much more to make power reaper into a raid-level damage. The other guy was right ... no one cares about 10% more damage if it doesn't do that .. and that's why power reaper is never going to get the buffs that are going to make you happy, because your interest isn't about reaper damage, it's about reapers in raids. Check this guy out ... he just want's reaper to be meta. I got news for him; Scourge is about as good as it gets, and that's going to get hit soon too. 10% should sound like a bounty at this point ...

@Crinn.7864 said:

Taking trash tier damage and increasing it by 10% still results in trash tier damage. Also power reaper being bad has literally nothing to do with scourge. If scourge is nerfed, reaper doesn't become meta, rather if scourge is nerfed the entire necromancer profession ceases to be competitive.

This isn't even a PvE thing, power reaper is also suffering from trash damage in sPvP aswell, because it does less damage than other brawlers while also having worse sustain than other brawlers.

That 10% on chill buff you crap on ... THAT'S about the scale of the buffs you're going to see; that represents Anet's stomach for increasing Reaper damage. If that doesn't propel it into power reaper raid build level, I don't think much more will.

This is why I refuse to not only play another build or another class for that matter because why should I show respect for a game mode by completely dismantling my play style and character theme if ANet doesn't have enough respect for Power Reapers to adjust them enough to get a seat at that table.

You did that the second you bought this game ... or any other MMO for that matter. Games change all the time that cause players to rethink their builds or rotations or gear or whatever else the player controls. This is no different. There is nothing exceptional about game changes affecting how players play the game. Your playstyle is not dismantled at all in all frankness; nothing prevents you from continuing to play the build you enjoy. Your simply to stubborn to play the builds you know will give you more damage because of your ideal, romantic idea about how the game should evolve without affecting how you play it ... which is completely removed from reality.

I did that the second I bought the game, how so I fail to see any thugs busting down my door forcing my to play a Ranger, or forcing me to re spec as Scourge, cool story bro.

I don't get this statement ... if you bought the game and didn't think changes to it would affect how you play it or how you feel about what you are playing, then you aren't very experienced in playing MMO's or you aren't being realistic. How's that for a cool bro story? #stayunreal

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Loopgru.1026 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Exactly ... exactly my point. Targeting 'meta-level' or 'raid-level' damage output is simply NOT realistic,

Why? Power DPS can be meta competitive (see hammer guard or rev prior to August). Why should reaper not have the same potential? Because it can be tankier? When the entire premise in PvE is that survivability is best accomplished through avoidance and active defenses, who cares? Want to balance it for PvP? Tie it to decimate defenses and have damage ramp hinge on vulnerability stacks, them split as necessary.

Also ... I'm not sure if it's a 'clever' idea or just a coincidence, but I think the idea that this requires players to choose between gravedigger spam and chill upkeep is ... an interesting development.

Given that the skill maintains its reset below 50%, I think you're reaching here.

Lots of things CAN be ... that's not a relevant question. The real answer you are looking for is that it's simply not necessary for Anet to give us all a whole bunch of meta builds. Just because the meta build for a class isn't the build you want it to be is really not a compelling reason to get it changed, nor does it make sense to request all that effort to essentially give an equivalent damage build to the meta. There simply isn't any reason to, other than the whim of particular players.

It's necessary if they want to retain players. There is nothing more absolutely frustrating to a player, than their favorite class being trash in their favorite gamemode.

No it's not ... because every MMO works like this. If there was an MMO where your choices were immune to games changes, then everyone that cared about never having to change would be playing it. The fact is that this isn't GW2, nor is it most other MMO's I'm familiar with. It's simply a fundamental part of what you sign up for when you play an MMO. It's only frustrating because you didn't have a reasonable expectation for how game changes affect gameplay. Game changes affecting gameplay is not a unique feature to GW2.

I'm still rocking a Power Reaper, still doing very well in the Open World which is my preferred game mode, have no problems in Fractals, and raids are full of people I want nothing to do with.

How am I being delusional when my choices are quite literally working well for me.

"Play the way you want" Guild Wars 2.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Ara.4569 said:@Obtena.7952

I'm trying to understand.Are you on some kind of crusade against people who expect balance team to do their job ?Are you saying it's only natural for MMOGs to have garbage level balance ?If you were a board administrator, would you fire balance team because it's a waste of resource ?(Speaking in general because, in our case, ANet might receive state subventions for hiring mentally challenged family members, which is the only rational explanation I could think of.)

OH I'm glad you asked because it's not like I haven't been asked this question many times and I was more than happy to enlighten some people based on the reality of the game's history and the dev's behaviors. I only need to ask you one provocative question:

In the history of this game, what game changes have occurred that convinces you Anet is moving towards a character building system where there is balanced DPS across all classes and builds equivalent in damage (or in a reasonable range) within a class?

I don't need anything by my eyes to see that whatever this 'balancing team' is using as a measure, it's not inline with any concept of equivalence in damage that people typically have. The evidence is numerous ... the lack of DPS balance between classes, the narrow set of optimized compositions, and finally, relevant to this thread, the lack of equivalent DPS builds within a class and it's elite specs. So maybe you like the romantic idea that what you think as balance is happening. If it is, it appears it's on a several-decades long roadmap based on how slow it's being executed.

Frankly, I wouldn't fire them because I don't know what their idea of balance is; I just can plainly see it's not related to equivalent DPS over a wide range of classes and specs within a class. That much is clear.

@Loopgru.1026 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

I'm puzzled.

Why are you here? We know why we are- this is a bunch of people who like a particular play style in this game who are asking for it to be given a balance pass to be a more reasonable competitive choice. Why are you? Do you have a specific bone to pick with power reaper in one game mode or another that makes objecting to this very idea important enough to waste time on?

I think it's got something to do with helping people realize their reality with a walkthrough of game history. The only bone I have to pick is when the ideas like this support the concept of pushing meta on players. These players arguments are largely self defeating to begin with "I really love playing build X and I can play it well and do what I want with it ... but it's not meta so QQ!!!" Those players are largely missing the whole point of why we have thematic variety in the first place. It's NOT to get a whole bunch of equivalent DPS builds; that's never going to be a goal in a game with this scale of options. If Anet wanted to deliver a game where everyone did the same damage, we wouldn't have 9 classes and elite specs and different gear prefixes ... with choice also comes deviation. That's just MMO reality.

WoW seems to accomplish a close DPS margin while keeping distinct Play style themes between specs in each class as well as distinct class themes as well.