PvP based Chronomancer change suggestions

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Lol, asked mods to remove my own post and got 3 infaction points, kitten with this moderation??? XDDDDDDDD

Can I guess the mod that banned you again?It begins with 5 and ends with 7.

OT: don't like mental defense nor seize the moment, seize is fine the way it is.

Ah so he likes you too? After I mentioned him I got a different personal moderator 3 something something xd

I've reported that mod to ANerf sometime ago, it was all for nothing tho.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"Tayga.3192" said:

Trait changes

--Escape Artist: Decoy, Mirror Images, Phantasmal Defender and Phantasmal Disenchanter gain 20% cooldown reduction. Clones gain 6 seconds of protection when shattered.--

--Protected Phantasms: There are two suggestions (choose-one) for this trait.----1) (My recommendation) Summoned phantasms have 20% more health and spawn with 6 seconds of Retaliation.----2) Summoned phantasms spawn with 5 seconds of Protection.--

--Mental Defense: After summoning a phantasm, 20% of the damage you take is transferred to your youngest phantasm for 3 seconds.--

--Phantasmal Force: Summoned phantasms spawn with 2 stacks of Might for 8 seconds. Phantasms deal 5% (3% in PvE) increased damage for every stack of Might they have.--

You don't improve an elite spec by making core profession change. All of those impact the profession as a whole and are potential balance hazard.

--Time Splitter: In addition to previous effects, this trait reduces recharge of Signet of Illusions by 25%.--

Nope! signet of illusion isn't a chronomancer's specific skill. Along with blurred inscription this is a game breaking change.

All's Well That Ends Well: Wells heal (0.3) allies when placed and after they end (0.5). Wells gain 20% recharge reduction.

Dividing the healing part between when it's placed and when it end isn't a bad idea. I agree.

Lost Time: Interrupting an enemy slows (1.25 seconds) and damages (0.7) them. This attack cannot critically hit.

From my point of view it's a nerf. Is it necessary? I don't think so.

Seize the Moment: Gain the ability to use Tides of Time sideways and backwards. Shield skills gain 20% recharge reduction.

Right move if you want to bug the skill and make it unusable. So no, I'd rather see no change than this one.

Illusionary Reversion: Split Second and Rewinder generate a clone when used. 3 seconds cooldown.

I see what you do there, trying to cast a net for wasted shatter, but it doesn't make sense to have shatters produce clones.

Delayed Reactions: Disabling a foe applies slow for 1 second. This skill affects foes with Defiance Bars once every 3 seconds (no interval in PvP and WvW).

A nerf again? Is slow OP? Why would you even talk about defiance in a sPvP forum?

Chronophantasma: The first time a phantasm would become a clone, it instead resummons itself and attacks again. Resummoned phantasms are dazed for 0.75 seconds and inflict 80% (in all game modes) of the original's damage. This trait increases all phantasm recharges by 15%.

So you're looking for more burst out of this trait at the cost of longer CD... You realise that ANet crippled damage is sPvP because people could 100-0 in an instant? This is the same as trying to bring back what led ANet to nerf things, what would be the point?

Utility skill changes

--Phantasmal Defender: 40 seconds cooldown. Taunt nearby enemies and block incoming attacks for 6 seconds. Grant nearby allies 3 seconds of aegis for every blocked attack, 2 seconds of interval per ally. Blocking an attack deals damage to the attacker (0.3 or 0.4 coefficient, basically lowish damage).--

Core skills are better left alone when you claim to make change for a specific e-spec.

Well of Precognition: Break stun. Instant cast. 35 seconds cooldown. Create a well that makes allies take 50% reduced damage and condition damage.

Too strong, way too strong.

Shatter changes

Continuum Split: Base cooldown is reduced to 35 seconds. This skill's recharge is increased by 33% of original recharges' of skills used during Time Anchored. Time Anchored now reduces Power and Condition Damage by 20%.

I don't see this as a proper change. It's basically saying that you want a 35 second CD distorsion and you could careless about the purpose of the skill except for that. Just play another spec if what you want is distorsion on F4 it will be easier.

Honnestly, if it were me, I'd just "remove" the clones from the chronomancer and give him only the ability to self shatter. Skill and traits that create clones would just lit up the clone ressource bar. Then you make chronofantasma transform your F1, F2 and F3 into skills that summon a fanstasm of the mesmer onto the target where it would shatter to allow some range nuke. And chronomancer would be mostly fine from my point of view.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Lol, asked mods to remove my own post and got 3 infaction points, kitten with this moderation??? XDDDDDDDD

Can I guess the mod that banned you again?It begins with 5 and ends with 7.

OT: don't like mental defense nor seize the moment, seize is fine the way it is.

Ah so he likes you too? After I mentioned him I got a different personal moderator 3 something something xd

I've reported that mod to ANerf sometime ago, it was all for nothing tho.

Forum Moderator.5907 March 29, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 March 25, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 March 22, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 March 17, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 March 17, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 March 16, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 March 16, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 March 12, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 March 4, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 February 23, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 February 22, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 February 18, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 February 16, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 February 12, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 February 12, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 February 6, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 February 1, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 January 23, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 January 21, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 January 15, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 January 3, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 December 24, 2019I kept the guy busy, waiting for ban zzZZzzz

[Quadox.7834]

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

I'm so close to voluntarily getting an infraction when reading stuff like this you have no idea. You simply don't understand what something being "skilled" means. Ask yourself, will a random gold Mesmer get as much consistent value from continuum split as some 10k hours high-level Mesmer? No, not even close, because CS is incredibly situational, with a myriad of ways to use it appropriately, plan your cooldowns, and so on and so forth. It is not like having perma alacrity, or perma 25 might (as an example), which would be buffs that any player get huge value out of. What you are saying, is the same as saying that Portal is "just an instant teleport across the map, no skill in that waow", i.e. completely dumb. When compared to mirage and (especially) core, chrono is more "skilled".

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Lol, asked mods to remove my own post and got 3 infaction points, kitten with this moderation??? XDDDDDDDD

Can I guess the mod that banned you again?It begins with 5 and ends with 7.

OT: don't like mental defense nor seize the moment, seize is fine the way it is.

Ah so he likes you too? After I mentioned him I got a different personal moderator 3 something something xd

I've reported that mod to ANerf sometime ago, it was all for nothing tho.

Forum Moderator.5907 March 29, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 March 25, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 March 22, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 March 17, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 March 17, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 March 16, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 March 16, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 March 12, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 March 4, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 February 23, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 February 22, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 February 18, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 February 16, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 February 12, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 February 12, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 February 6, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 February 1, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 January 23, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 January 21, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 January 15, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 January 3, 2020Forum Moderator.5907 December 24, 2019I kept the guy busy, waiting for ban zzZZzzz

Kitten it, you're winning, I only have 16 times.

[bravan.3876]

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

You were a horrible Chrono i guess? xD Whatever i am still not in the mood for wall of text explanations of the obvious. Even more a waste of time because Anet seems to not read and understand anything about Mesmer anyway either.

@Quadox.7834 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

I'm so close to voluntarily getting an infraction when reading stuff like this you have no idea. You simply don't understand what something being "skilled" means. Ask yourself, will a random gold Mesmer get as much consistent value from continuum split as some 10k hours high-level Mesmer? No, not even close, because CS is incredibly situational, with a myriad of ways to use it appropriately, plan your cooldowns, and so on and so forth. It is not like having perma alacrity, or perma 25 might (as an example), which would be buffs that any player get huge value out of. What you are saying, is the same as saying that Portal is "just an instant teleport across the map, no skill in that waow", i.e. completely dumb.

Saw it after my comment, i would have used 5 times the number of words for saying something like that. I maybe would have covered few more aspects than you but that is useless when no one is reading the wall of text... Means i am glad i don't need to.

When compared to mirage and (especially) core, chrono is more "skilled".

i think it is Coremes<Chrono< IH-Mirage in terms of skill ceiling, maybe not for condi but for power. While Core and Chrono have a little bit higher skill floor. That is what i heard but also felt myself when trying all specs.

Even though Chrono was not rly something i was that interested in after it was played as bunker during first HoT span. Most HoT specs i actually find more boring than PoF specs actually. Scrapper, Druid, Bunkerchrono, Tempest... Resident Sleeper. I liked Reaper and Berserker the most during HoT. Funny that most ppl say PoF was the worst happend for the game, during i think that PoF specs added way more skill ceiling and way more interesting mechanics for most classes than HoT. And most of the PoF specs came with inherent costs (trade offs) already but were in need of some normal nerfs to not overperfrom compared to core or HoT.

While the current trade off agenda but also normal nerfs are just about destroying specs, gameplay flow and contradicting mechanics while way better options for balance changes are available. And Mesmer is until now the biggest victim of those nonsense changes (trade off and normal nerfs). I am afraid what they will do to specs they say have no trade off until now (and i doubt they even understand their own definition of trade off tbh). I am worrying what they will do to FB for example, if they listen to gold plebs saying it doesn't have a trade off (what it clearly has, get rdy for a one or two tome Fb...). The moment they destroyed all elite specs with their nonsense clunky changes i will ask for my money back.

[ArlsTipsierAlt.9138]

This will get moved to an irrelevant part of the forum, faster than you can say Mesmer.

[ArlsTipsierAlt.9138]

Deleted cuz Spanish Inquisition.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

You were a horrible Chrono i guess? xD Whatever i am still not in the mood for wall of text explanations of the obvious. Even more a waste of time because Anet seems to not read and understand anything about Mesmer anyway either.

nobody gets mesmer, only you.

[Tayga.3192]

Before I answer, thanks @Dadnir.5038 for contributing!

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Tayga.3192" said:

Trait changes

--

Escape Artist

: Decoy, Mirror Images, Phantasmal Defender and Phantasmal Disenchanter gain 20% cooldown reduction. Clones gain 6 seconds of protection when shattered.--

--

Protected Phantasms

: There are two suggestions (choose-one) for this trait.----1) (My recommendation) Summoned phantasms have 20% more health and spawn with 6 seconds of Retaliation.----2) Summoned phantasms spawn with 5 seconds of Protection.--

--

Mental Defense

: After summoning a phantasm, 20% of the damage you take is transferred to your youngest phantasm for 3 seconds.--

--

Phantasmal Force

: Summoned phantasms spawn with 2 stacks of Might for 8 seconds. Phantasms deal 5% (3% in PvE) increased damage for every stack of Might they have.--

You don't improve an elite spec by making core profession change. All of those impact the profession as a whole and are potential balance hazard.Click the links to go to the traits themselves. They are pretty bad for no reason. Nearly all of my suggestions turn these traits into what they were before.

--

Time Splitter

: In addition to previous effects, this trait reduces recharge of

Signet of Illusions

by 25%.--

Nope!

signet of illusion

isn't a chronomancer's specific skill. Along with

blurred inscription

this is a game breaking change.Continuum Split doesn't reset with the signet, why must it be the same cooldown?

Lost Time

: Interrupting an enemy slows (1.25 seconds) and damages (0.7) them. This attack cannot critically hit.

From my point of view it's a nerf. Is it necessary? I don't think so.It's a buff, currently 3s alacrity is useless.

Seize the Moment

: Gain the ability to use

Tides of Time

sideways and backwards. Shield skills gain 20% recharge reduction.

Right move if you want to bug the skill and make it unusable. So no, I'd rather see no change than this one.It was usable backwards and sideways before, no idea why they nerfed it.

Illusionary Reversion

: Split Second and Rewinder generate a clone when used. 3 seconds cooldown.

I see what you do there, trying to cast a net for wasted shatter, but it doesn't make sense to have shatters produce clones.Illusionary Reversion already produces clones from shatters, just in a very bad and weak way.

Delayed Reactions

: Disabling a foe applies slow for 1 second. This skill affects foes with Defiance Bars once every 3 seconds (no interval in PvP and WvW).

A nerf again? Is slow OP? Why would you even talk about defiance in a sPvP forum?It procs every 3 seconds in PvP, with this it will proc every time.

Chronophantasma

: The first time a phantasm would become a clone, it instead resummons itself and attacks again. Resummoned phantasms are dazed for 0.75 seconds and inflict 80% (in all game modes) of the original's damage. This trait increases all phantasm recharges by 15%.

So you're looking for more burst out of this trait at the cost of longer CD... You realise that ANet crippled damage is sPvP because people could 100-0 in an instant? This is the same as trying to bring back what led ANet to nerf things, what would be the point?Sure, change the 80% to 50%, I don't really care if that's the problem.

Utility skill changes

--

Phantasmal Defender

: 40 seconds cooldown. Taunt nearby enemies and block incoming attacks for 6 seconds. Grant nearby allies 3 seconds of aegis for every blocked attack, 2 seconds of interval per ally. Blocking an attack deals damage to the attacker (0.3 or 0.4 coefficient, basically lowish damage).--

Core skills are better left alone when you claim to make change for a specific e-spec.It's a pretty bad skill.

Well of Precognition

: Break stun. Instant cast. 35 seconds cooldown. Create a well that makes allies take 50% reduced damage and condition damage.

Too strong, way too strong.Sure, make it 33%.

Shatter changes

Continuum Split

: Base cooldown is reduced to 35 seconds. This skill's recharge is increased by 33% of original recharges' of skills used during

Time Anchored

. Time Anchored now reduces Power and Condition Damage by 20%.

I don't see this as a proper change. It's basically saying that you want a 35 second CD distorsion and you could careless about the purpose of the skill except for that. Just play another spec if what you want is distorsion on F4 it will be easier.Sure, make the base CD 50s and make it get 25% of skills used in it. This way you will have 50s cd 1s distortion and when you use something like moa it will become 95 seconds or something.

Honnestly, if it were me, I'd just "remove" the clones from the chronomancer and give him only the ability to self shatter. Skill and traits that create clones would just lit up the clone ressource bar. Then you make

chronofantasma

transform your F1, F2 and F3 into skills that summon a fanstasm of the mesmer onto the target where it would shatter to allow some range nuke. And chronomancer would be mostly fine from my point of view.They will never rework it to that extent :P

[bravan.3876]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

You were a horrible Chrono i guess? xD Whatever i am still not in the mood for wall of text explanations of the obvious. Even more a waste of time because Anet seems to not read and understand anything about Mesmer anyway either.

nobody gets mesmer, only you.

I would never claim that. But you (and few others, asparma it seems for example) and Anet for certain not, that is all i am saying.

[ArlsTipsierAlt.9138]

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

You were a horrible Chrono i guess? xD Whatever i am still not in the mood for wall of text explanations of the obvious. Even more a waste of time because Anet seems to not read and understand anything about Mesmer anyway either.

nobody gets mesmer, only you.

I would never claim that. But you (and few others, asparma it seems for example) and Anet for certain not, that is all i am saying.

I can date back apharma for about as long as I've kitten posted. That alones gives me the impression that we've played the same game and have had similar experiences over time.

The problem with forum heroes is: Every 2 or so years we get a fresh batch of players wanting to express their opinion about the status quo, while repeating previously expressed opinions of now Former players. See where I'm getting with this?

[bravan.3876]

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

You were a horrible Chrono i guess? xD Whatever i am still not in the mood for wall of text explanations of the obvious. Even more a waste of time because Anet seems to not read and understand anything about Mesmer anyway either.

nobody gets mesmer, only you.

I would never claim that. But you (and few others, asparma it seems for example) and Anet for certain not, that is all i am saying.

I can date back apharma for about as long as I've kitten posted. That alones gives me the impression that we've played the same game and have had similar experiences over time.

The problem with forum heroes is: Every 2 or so years we get a fresh batch of players wanting to express their opinion about the status quo, while repeating previously expressed opinions of now Former players.

Just that how long you know ppl and how long ppl play the game doesn't prove anything about how much they know and understand or how well they play. Also i play this game from beta days myself, still doesn't prove anything.

See where I'm getting with this?

Means you will get nowhere with that claims.

Also there is a difference between blindly repeating other opinions or adapting while rethinking stuff i heard/ read based on logic, logical deduction and own knowledge/ understanding and experience with the game. The first thing is stupidity/narrowness paired with lack of knowledge and understanding and lack in the ability of own creative thinking. The second is being flexible in mind and not stubborn while not blindly following every propaganda no matter how right the propaganda looks on a first superficial view and how good it looks for ppl without either the iq or the knowledge to look deeper by their own.

[apharma.3741]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

I'm so close to voluntarily getting an infraction when reading stuff like this you have no idea. You simply don't understand what something being "skilled" means. Ask yourself, will a random gold Mesmer get as much consistent value from continuum split as some 10k hours high-level Mesmer? No, not even close, because CS is incredibly situational, with a myriad of ways to use it appropriately, plan your cooldowns, and so on and so forth. It is not like having perma alacrity, or perma 25 might (as an example), which would be buffs that any player get huge value out of. What you are saying, is the same as saying that Portal is "just an instant teleport across the map, no skill in that waow", i.e. completely dumb. When compared to mirage and (especially) core, chrono is more "skilled".

Ask yourself, will a random gold [class] get as much consistent value from [overpowered skill] as some 10k hours high-level [class]? No not even close.

That's your entire argument and it works with literally everything because worse players will always get less value out of something. Got a real candidate for the 2020 stating the obvious competition here. The problem is at all levels you have to balance every skill to take into account that you could use it twice in a fight which means those singular skills have to be worse in general so that when they are reliably doubled up on they don't become overbearing.

Did literally no-one here understand that it's chrono phantasma and continuum split doubling up that made phantasm chrono so completely broken even on those gold pleb mesmers? The easiest way to figure this out was asking yourself "was the same build broken on mirage or core mesmer?" No because neither of those classes could double up on the skills involved. "Were the skills involved overpowered on core and mirage?" No because you could only use them once per cool down.

Want more? Look at Moa. The entire skill was balanced around continuum split when they reduced it's duration to 6s making it useless on all mesmer builds ever since despite core mesmer using it in core on the same cool down.

[bravan.3876]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

I'm so close to voluntarily getting an infraction when reading stuff like this you have no idea. You simply don't understand what something being "skilled" means. Ask yourself, will a random gold Mesmer get as much consistent value from continuum split as some 10k hours high-level Mesmer? No, not even close, because CS is incredibly situational, with a myriad of ways to use it appropriately, plan your cooldowns, and so on and so forth. It is not like having perma alacrity, or perma 25 might (as an example), which would be buffs that any player get huge value out of. What you are saying, is the same as saying that Portal is "just an instant teleport across the map, no skill in that waow", i.e. completely dumb. When compared to mirage and (especially) core, chrono is more "skilled".

Ask yourself, will a random gold [class] get as much consistent value from [overpowered skill] as some 10k hours high-level [class]? No not even close.

That's your entire argument and it works with literally everything because worse players will always get less value out of something. Got a real candidate for the 2020 stating the obvious competition here. The problem is at all levels you have to balance every skill to take into account that you could use it twice in a fight which means those singular skills have to be worse in general so that when they are reliably doubled up on they don't become overbearing.

Did literally no-one here understand that it's chrono phantasma and continuum split doubling up that made phantasm chrono so completely broken even on those gold pleb mesmers? The easiest way to figure this out was asking yourself "was the same build broken on mirage or core mesmer?" No because neither of those classes could double up on the skills involved. "Were the skills involved overpowered on core and mirage?" No because you could only use them once per cool down.

Want more? Look at Moa. The entire skill was balanced around continuum split when they reduced it's duration to 6s making it useless on all mesmer builds ever since despite core mesmer using it in core on the same cool down.

Facepalm... a lot of them actually

[ArlsTipsierAlt.9138]

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

You were a horrible Chrono i guess? xD Whatever i am still not in the mood for wall of text explanations of the obvious. Even more a waste of time because Anet seems to not read and understand anything about Mesmer anyway either.

nobody gets mesmer, only you.

I would never claim that. But you (and few others, asparma it seems for example) and Anet for certain not, that is all i am saying.

I can date back apharma for about as long as I've kitten posted. That alones gives me the impression that we've played the same game and have had similar experiences over time.

The problem with forum heroes is: Every 2 or so years we get a fresh batch of players wanting to express their opinion about the status quo, while repeating previously expressed opinions of now Former players.

Just that how long you know ppl and how long ppl play the game doesn't prove anything about how much they know and understand or how well they play. Also i play this game from beta days myself, still doesn't prove anything.

See where I'm getting with this?

Means you will get nowhere with that claims.

Also there is a difference between blindly repeating other opinions or adapting while rethinking stuff i heard/ read based on logic, logical deduction and own knowledge/ understanding and experience with the game. The first thing is stupidity/narrowness paired with lack of knowledge and understanding and lack in the ability of own creative thinking. The second is being flexible in mind and not stubborn while not blindly following every propaganda no matter how right the propaganda looks on a first superficial view and how good it looks for ppl without either the iq or the knowledge to look deeper by their own.

There's literally nothing you can say that will prove said point. Because of that , what're you on about?\

Deleted for not being nice.

[apharma.3741]

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

I'm so close to voluntarily getting an infraction when reading stuff like this you have no idea. You simply don't understand what something being "skilled" means. Ask yourself, will a random gold Mesmer get as much consistent value from continuum split as some 10k hours high-level Mesmer? No, not even close, because CS is incredibly situational, with a myriad of ways to use it appropriately, plan your cooldowns, and so on and so forth. It is not like having perma alacrity, or perma 25 might (as an example), which would be buffs that any player get huge value out of. What you are saying, is the same as saying that Portal is "just an instant teleport across the map, no skill in that waow", i.e. completely dumb. When compared to mirage and (especially) core, chrono is more "skilled".

Ask yourself, will a random gold [class] get as much consistent value from [overpowered skill] as some 10k hours high-level [class]? No not even close.

That's your entire argument and it works with literally everything because worse players will always get less value out of something. Got a real candidate for the 2020 stating the obvious competition here. The problem is at all levels you have to balance every skill to take into account that you could use it twice in a fight which means those singular skills have to be worse in general so that when they are reliably doubled up on they don't become overbearing.

Did literally no-one here understand that it's chrono phantasma and continuum split doubling up that made phantasm chrono so completely broken even on those gold pleb mesmers? The easiest way to figure this out was asking yourself "was the same build broken on mirage or core mesmer?" No because neither of those classes could double up on the skills involved. "Were the skills involved overpowered on core and mirage?" No because you could only use them once per cool down.

Want more? Look at Moa. The entire skill was balanced around continuum split when they reduced it's duration to 6s making it useless on all mesmer builds ever since despite core mesmer using it in core on the same cool down.

Facepalm... a lot of them actually

Hey, I at least keep it down to about 200 words. Yes it's 228, I'm allowed a little over and under!

Edit: Sorry if it messes up replies but I'll add it here for efficiency. I base my viewpoint on my experience in other games as well, giving instant refresh abilities out no matter the game has to be done incredibly carefully especially in a player vs player game mode. I've seen so many games go down this route and it's mostly caused problems if not heavily restricted because you always have to balance around it being doubled up in a certain percentage of cases and account for it's trade off.

[bravan.3876]

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

You were a horrible Chrono i guess? xD Whatever i am still not in the mood for wall of text explanations of the obvious. Even more a waste of time because Anet seems to not read and understand anything about Mesmer anyway either.

nobody gets mesmer, only you.

I would never claim that. But you (and few others, asparma it seems for example) and Anet for certain not, that is all i am saying.

I can date back apharma for about as long as I've kitten posted. That alones gives me the impression that we've played the same game and have had similar experiences over time.

The problem with forum heroes is: Every 2 or so years we get a fresh batch of players wanting to express their opinion about the status quo, while repeating previously expressed opinions of now Former players.

Just that how long you know ppl and how long ppl play the game doesn't prove anything about how much they know and understand or how well they play. Also i play this game from beta days myself, still doesn't prove anything.

See where I'm getting with this?

Means you will get nowhere with that claims.

Also there is a difference between blindly repeating other opinions or adapting while rethinking stuff i heard/ read based on logic, logical deduction and own knowledge/ understanding and experience with the game. The first thing is stupidity/narrowness paired with lack of knowledge and understanding and lack in the ability of own creative thinking. The second is being flexible in mind and not stubborn while not blindly following every propaganda no matter how right the propaganda looks on a first superficial view and how good it looks for ppl without either the iq or the knowledge to look deeper by their own.

There's literally nothing you can say that will prove said point. Because of that , what're you on about?\

It's like you're arguin for the sake of argument... what are you? 15?

Please what?

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

I'm so close to voluntarily getting an infraction when reading stuff like this you have no idea. You simply don't understand what something being "skilled" means. Ask yourself, will a random gold Mesmer get as much consistent value from continuum split as some 10k hours high-level Mesmer? No, not even close, because CS is incredibly situational, with a myriad of ways to use it appropriately, plan your cooldowns, and so on and so forth. It is not like having perma alacrity, or perma 25 might (as an example), which would be buffs that any player get huge value out of. What you are saying, is the same as saying that Portal is "just an instant teleport across the map, no skill in that waow", i.e. completely dumb. When compared to mirage and (especially) core, chrono is more "skilled".

Ask yourself, will a random gold [class] get as much consistent value from [overpowered skill] as some 10k hours high-level [class]? No not even close.

That's your entire argument and it works with literally everything because worse players will always get less value out of something. Got a real candidate for the 2020 stating the obvious competition here. The problem is at all levels you have to balance every skill to take into account that you could use it twice in a fight which means those singular skills have to be worse in general so that when they are reliably doubled up on they don't become overbearing.

Did literally no-one here understand that it's chrono phantasma and continuum split doubling up that made phantasm chrono so completely broken even on those gold pleb mesmers? The easiest way to figure this out was asking yourself "was the same build broken on mirage or core mesmer?" No because neither of those classes could double up on the skills involved. "Were the skills involved overpowered on core and mirage?" No because you could only use them once per cool down.

Want more? Look at Moa. The entire skill was balanced around continuum split when they reduced it's duration to 6s making it useless on all mesmer builds ever since despite core mesmer using it in core on the same cool down.

Facepalm... a lot of them actually

Hey, I at least keep it down to about 200 words. Yes it's 228, I'm allowed a little over and under!

True, can't argue with that :joy:

I try, you can see i try, i tryhard even... to do the same! I am certain i will lose the moment i get triggered too hard by something though

[ArlsTipsierAlt.9138]

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

You were a horrible Chrono i guess? xD Whatever i am still not in the mood for wall of text explanations of the obvious. Even more a waste of time because Anet seems to not read and understand anything about Mesmer anyway either.

nobody gets mesmer, only you.

I would never claim that. But you (and few others, asparma it seems for example) and Anet for certain not, that is all i am saying.

I can date back apharma for about as long as I've kitten posted. That alones gives me the impression that we've played the same game and have had similar experiences over time.

The problem with forum heroes is: Every 2 or so years we get a fresh batch of players wanting to express their opinion about the status quo, while repeating previously expressed opinions of now Former players.

Just that how long you know ppl and how long ppl play the game doesn't prove anything about how much they know and understand or how well they play. Also i play this game from beta days myself, still doesn't prove anything.

See where I'm getting with this?

Means you will get nowhere with that claims.

Also there is a difference between blindly repeating other opinions or adapting while rethinking stuff i heard/ read based on logic, logical deduction and own knowledge/ understanding and experience with the game. The first thing is stupidity/narrowness paired with lack of knowledge and understanding and lack in the ability of own creative thinking. The second is being flexible in mind and not stubborn while not blindly following every propaganda no matter how right the propaganda looks on a first superficial view and how good it looks for ppl without either the iq or the knowledge to look deeper by their own.

There's literally nothing you can say that will prove said point. Because of that , what're you on about?\

It's like you're arguin for the sake of argument... what are you? 15?

Please what?

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

I'm so close to voluntarily getting an infraction when reading stuff like this you have no idea. You simply don't understand what something being "skilled" means. Ask yourself, will a random gold Mesmer get as much consistent value from continuum split as some 10k hours high-level Mesmer? No, not even close, because CS is incredibly situational, with a myriad of ways to use it appropriately, plan your cooldowns, and so on and so forth. It is not like having perma alacrity, or perma 25 might (as an example), which would be buffs that any player get huge value out of. What you are saying, is the same as saying that Portal is "just an instant teleport across the map, no skill in that waow", i.e. completely dumb. When compared to mirage and (especially) core, chrono is more "skilled".

Ask yourself, will a random gold [class] get as much consistent value from [overpowered skill] as some 10k hours high-level [class]? No not even close.

That's your entire argument and it works with literally everything because worse players will always get less value out of something. Got a real candidate for the 2020 stating the obvious competition here. The problem is at all levels you have to balance every skill to take into account that you could use it twice in a fight which means those singular skills have to be worse in general so that when they are reliably doubled up on they don't become overbearing.

Did literally no-one here understand that it's chrono phantasma and continuum split doubling up that made phantasm chrono so completely broken even on those gold pleb mesmers? The easiest way to figure this out was asking yourself "was the same build broken on mirage or core mesmer?" No because neither of those classes could double up on the skills involved. "Were the skills involved overpowered on core and mirage?" No because you could only use them once per cool down.

Want more? Look at Moa. The entire skill was balanced around continuum split when they reduced it's duration to 6s making it useless on all mesmer builds ever since despite core mesmer using it in core on the same cool down.

Facepalm... a lot of them actually

Hey, I at least keep it down to about 200 words. Yes it's 228, I'm allowed a little over and under!

True, can't argue with that :joy:

I try, you can see i try, i tryhard even... to do the same!

I'm starting to UNDERSTAND what @Odik.4587 means, when he said talking to Bravan is like talking to the Radio.

[bravan.3876]

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

You were a horrible Chrono i guess? xD Whatever i am still not in the mood for wall of text explanations of the obvious. Even more a waste of time because Anet seems to not read and understand anything about Mesmer anyway either.

nobody gets mesmer, only you.

I would never claim that. But you (and few others, asparma it seems for example) and Anet for certain not, that is all i am saying.

I can date back apharma for about as long as I've kitten posted. That alones gives me the impression that we've played the same game and have had similar experiences over time.

The problem with forum heroes is: Every 2 or so years we get a fresh batch of players wanting to express their opinion about the status quo, while repeating previously expressed opinions of now Former players.

Just that how long you know ppl and how long ppl play the game doesn't prove anything about how much they know and understand or how well they play. Also i play this game from beta days myself, still doesn't prove anything.

See where I'm getting with this?

Means you will get nowhere with that claims.

Also there is a difference between blindly repeating other opinions or adapting while rethinking stuff i heard/ read based on logic, logical deduction and own knowledge/ understanding and experience with the game. The first thing is stupidity/narrowness paired with lack of knowledge and understanding and lack in the ability of own creative thinking. The second is being flexible in mind and not stubborn while not blindly following every propaganda no matter how right the propaganda looks on a first superficial view and how good it looks for ppl without either the iq or the knowledge to look deeper by their own.

There's literally nothing you can say that will prove said point. Because of that , what're you on about?\

It's like you're arguin for the sake of argument... what are you? 15?

Please what?

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

I'm so close to voluntarily getting an infraction when reading stuff like this you have no idea. You simply don't understand what something being "skilled" means. Ask yourself, will a random gold Mesmer get as much consistent value from continuum split as some 10k hours high-level Mesmer? No, not even close, because CS is incredibly situational, with a myriad of ways to use it appropriately, plan your cooldowns, and so on and so forth. It is not like having perma alacrity, or perma 25 might (as an example), which would be buffs that any player get huge value out of. What you are saying, is the same as saying that Portal is "just an instant teleport across the map, no skill in that waow", i.e. completely dumb. When compared to mirage and (especially) core, chrono is more "skilled".

Ask yourself, will a random gold [class] get as much consistent value from [overpowered skill] as some 10k hours high-level [class]? No not even close.

That's your entire argument and it works with literally everything because worse players will always get less value out of something. Got a real candidate for the 2020 stating the obvious competition here. The problem is at all levels you have to balance every skill to take into account that you could use it twice in a fight which means those singular skills have to be worse in general so that when they are reliably doubled up on they don't become overbearing.

Did literally no-one here understand that it's chrono phantasma and continuum split doubling up that made phantasm chrono so completely broken even on those gold pleb mesmers? The easiest way to figure this out was asking yourself "was the same build broken on mirage or core mesmer?" No because neither of those classes could double up on the skills involved. "Were the skills involved overpowered on core and mirage?" No because you could only use them once per cool down.

Want more? Look at Moa. The entire skill was balanced around continuum split when they reduced it's duration to 6s making it useless on all mesmer builds ever since despite core mesmer using it in core on the same cool down.

Facepalm... a lot of them actually

Hey, I at least keep it down to about 200 words. Yes it's 228, I'm allowed a little over and under!

True, can't argue with that :joy:

I try, you can see i try, i tryhard even... to do the same!

I'm starting to UNDERSTAND what @Odik.4587 means, when he said talking to Bravan is like talking to the Radio.

If i understand you right, your argument was, that you know apharma longer and based on that you assume, that apharma knows the game better (or at least you trust his comments more). I told you that the fact, that you know apharma longer doesn't prove anything about how right or wrong he is, how good he knows or understand the game. Also i played the game at least as long as him, means that even proves, that the points you made are even pointless. Means i don't get your first response to me. It makes no sense at all. Who is the radio here? If i understood you wrong feel free to explain otherwise all you said in response to me (if understood you right) is nothing more than statistical noise until now.

[ArlsTipsierAlt.9138]

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

You were a horrible Chrono i guess? xD Whatever i am still not in the mood for wall of text explanations of the obvious. Even more a waste of time because Anet seems to not read and understand anything about Mesmer anyway either.

nobody gets mesmer, only you.

I would never claim that. But you (and few others, asparma it seems for example) and Anet for certain not, that is all i am saying.

I can date back apharma for about as long as I've kitten posted. That alones gives me the impression that we've played the same game and have had similar experiences over time.

The problem with forum heroes is: Every 2 or so years we get a fresh batch of players wanting to express their opinion about the status quo, while repeating previously expressed opinions of now Former players.

Just that how long you know ppl and how long ppl play the game doesn't prove anything about how much they know and understand or how well they play. Also i play this game from beta days myself, still doesn't prove anything.

See where I'm getting with this?

Means you will get nowhere with that claims.

Also there is a difference between blindly repeating other opinions or adapting while rethinking stuff i heard/ read based on logic, logical deduction and own knowledge/ understanding and experience with the game. The first thing is stupidity/narrowness paired with lack of knowledge and understanding and lack in the ability of own creative thinking. The second is being flexible in mind and not stubborn while not blindly following every propaganda no matter how right the propaganda looks on a first superficial view and how good it looks for ppl without either the iq or the knowledge to look deeper by their own.

There's literally nothing you can say that will prove said point. Because of that , what're you on about?\

It's like you're arguin for the sake of argument... what are you? 15?

Please what?

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

I'm so close to voluntarily getting an infraction when reading stuff like this you have no idea. You simply don't understand what something being "skilled" means. Ask yourself, will a random gold Mesmer get as much consistent value from continuum split as some 10k hours high-level Mesmer? No, not even close, because CS is incredibly situational, with a myriad of ways to use it appropriately, plan your cooldowns, and so on and so forth. It is not like having perma alacrity, or perma 25 might (as an example), which would be buffs that any player get huge value out of. What you are saying, is the same as saying that Portal is "just an instant teleport across the map, no skill in that waow", i.e. completely dumb. When compared to mirage and (especially) core, chrono is more "skilled".

Ask yourself, will a random gold [class] get as much consistent value from [overpowered skill] as some 10k hours high-level [class]? No not even close.

That's your entire argument and it works with literally everything because worse players will always get less value out of something. Got a real candidate for the 2020 stating the obvious competition here. The problem is at all levels you have to balance every skill to take into account that you could use it twice in a fight which means those singular skills have to be worse in general so that when they are reliably doubled up on they don't become overbearing.

Did literally no-one here understand that it's chrono phantasma and continuum split doubling up that made phantasm chrono so completely broken even on those gold pleb mesmers? The easiest way to figure this out was asking yourself "was the same build broken on mirage or core mesmer?" No because neither of those classes could double up on the skills involved. "Were the skills involved overpowered on core and mirage?" No because you could only use them once per cool down.

Want more? Look at Moa. The entire skill was balanced around continuum split when they reduced it's duration to 6s making it useless on all mesmer builds ever since despite core mesmer using it in core on the same cool down.

Facepalm... a lot of them actually

Hey, I at least keep it down to about 200 words. Yes it's 228, I'm allowed a little over and under!

True, can't argue with that :joy:

I try, you can see i try, i tryhard even... to do the same!

I'm starting to UNDERSTAND what @Odik.4587 means, when he said talking to Bravan is like talking to the Radio.

If i understand you right, your argument was, that you know apharma longer and based on that you assume, that apharma knows the game better (or at least you trust his comments more). I told you that the fat, that you know apharma lionger doesn't prove anythign about how right or wrogn he is, how good he knows or understand the game. Means i don't get your firts response to me. It makes no sense at all. Who is the radio here?

But me agreeing with the bulk of his opinions over the years compared to me having less opinions agreed with over the overall span of time, MAKES ME more inclined to take APHARMA's word over yours more openly.I mean we don't have to look at my case and if you want to do the read, we can take a look at Human Psychology 101.

Edit: In other words, yes I know apharma longer so I'm much more likely to take his word over yours. Why is that so surprising?

[bravan.3876]

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

You were a horrible Chrono i guess? xD Whatever i am still not in the mood for wall of text explanations of the obvious. Even more a waste of time because Anet seems to not read and understand anything about Mesmer anyway either.

nobody gets mesmer, only you.

I would never claim that. But you (and few others, asparma it seems for example) and Anet for certain not, that is all i am saying.

I can date back apharma for about as long as I've kitten posted. That alones gives me the impression that we've played the same game and have had similar experiences over time.

The problem with forum heroes is: Every 2 or so years we get a fresh batch of players wanting to express their opinion about the status quo, while repeating previously expressed opinions of now Former players.

Just that how long you know ppl and how long ppl play the game doesn't prove anything about how much they know and understand or how well they play. Also i play this game from beta days myself, still doesn't prove anything.

See where I'm getting with this?

Means you will get nowhere with that claims.

Also there is a difference between blindly repeating other opinions or adapting while rethinking stuff i heard/ read based on logic, logical deduction and own knowledge/ understanding and experience with the game. The first thing is stupidity/narrowness paired with lack of knowledge and understanding and lack in the ability of own creative thinking. The second is being flexible in mind and not stubborn while not blindly following every propaganda no matter how right the propaganda looks on a first superficial view and how good it looks for ppl without either the iq or the knowledge to look deeper by their own.

There's literally nothing you can say that will prove said point. Because of that , what're you on about?\

It's like you're arguin for the sake of argument... what are you? 15?

Please what?

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

I'm so close to voluntarily getting an infraction when reading stuff like this you have no idea. You simply don't understand what something being "skilled" means. Ask yourself, will a random gold Mesmer get as much consistent value from continuum split as some 10k hours high-level Mesmer? No, not even close, because CS is incredibly situational, with a myriad of ways to use it appropriately, plan your cooldowns, and so on and so forth. It is not like having perma alacrity, or perma 25 might (as an example), which would be buffs that any player get huge value out of. What you are saying, is the same as saying that Portal is "just an instant teleport across the map, no skill in that waow", i.e. completely dumb. When compared to mirage and (especially) core, chrono is more "skilled".

Ask yourself, will a random gold [class] get as much consistent value from [overpowered skill] as some 10k hours high-level [class]? No not even close.

That's your entire argument and it works with literally everything because worse players will always get less value out of something. Got a real candidate for the 2020 stating the obvious competition here. The problem is at all levels you have to balance every skill to take into account that you could use it twice in a fight which means those singular skills have to be worse in general so that when they are reliably doubled up on they don't become overbearing.

Did literally no-one here understand that it's chrono phantasma and continuum split doubling up that made phantasm chrono so completely broken even on those gold pleb mesmers? The easiest way to figure this out was asking yourself "was the same build broken on mirage or core mesmer?" No because neither of those classes could double up on the skills involved. "Were the skills involved overpowered on core and mirage?" No because you could only use them once per cool down.

Want more? Look at Moa. The entire skill was balanced around continuum split when they reduced it's duration to 6s making it useless on all mesmer builds ever since despite core mesmer using it in core on the same cool down.

Facepalm... a lot of them actually

Hey, I at least keep it down to about 200 words. Yes it's 228, I'm allowed a little over and under!

True, can't argue with that :joy:

I try, you can see i try, i tryhard even... to do the same!

I'm starting to UNDERSTAND what @Odik.4587 means, when he said talking to Bravan is like talking to the Radio.

If i understand you right, your argument was, that you know apharma longer and based on that you assume, that apharma knows the game better (or at least you trust his comments more). I told you that the fat, that you know apharma lionger doesn't prove anythign about how right or wrogn he is, how good he knows or understand the game. Means i don't get your firts response to me. It makes no sense at all. Who is the radio here?

But me agreeing with the bulk of his opinions over the years compared to me having less opinions agreed with over the overall span of time, MAKES ME more inclined to take APHARMA's word over yours more openly.I mean we don't have to look at my case and if you want to do the read, we can take a look at Human Psychology 101.

Edit: In other words, yes I know apharma longer so I'm much more likely to take his word over yours. Why is that so surprising?

No it is ok that you will take his word over mine, i don't even care at all. I just told you, that the reasons you listed for that do not rly make much sense. But it is up to you ofc. The best would be, you start to use your own brain instead just taking anyones word, also not mine...

[ArlsTipsierAlt.9138]

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

You were a horrible Chrono i guess? xD Whatever i am still not in the mood for wall of text explanations of the obvious. Even more a waste of time because Anet seems to not read and understand anything about Mesmer anyway either.

nobody gets mesmer, only you.

I would never claim that. But you (and few others, asparma it seems for example) and Anet for certain not, that is all i am saying.

I can date back apharma for about as long as I've kitten posted. That alones gives me the impression that we've played the same game and have had similar experiences over time.

The problem with forum heroes is: Every 2 or so years we get a fresh batch of players wanting to express their opinion about the status quo, while repeating previously expressed opinions of now Former players.

Just that how long you know ppl and how long ppl play the game doesn't prove anything about how much they know and understand or how well they play. Also i play this game from beta days myself, still doesn't prove anything.

See where I'm getting with this?

Means you will get nowhere with that claims.

Also there is a difference between blindly repeating other opinions or adapting while rethinking stuff i heard/ read based on logic, logical deduction and own knowledge/ understanding and experience with the game. The first thing is stupidity/narrowness paired with lack of knowledge and understanding and lack in the ability of own creative thinking. The second is being flexible in mind and not stubborn while not blindly following every propaganda no matter how right the propaganda looks on a first superficial view and how good it looks for ppl without either the iq or the knowledge to look deeper by their own.

There's literally nothing you can say that will prove said point. Because of that , what're you on about?\

It's like you're arguin for the sake of argument... what are you? 15?

Please what?

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

I'm so close to voluntarily getting an infraction when reading stuff like this you have no idea. You simply don't understand what something being "skilled" means. Ask yourself, will a random gold Mesmer get as much consistent value from continuum split as some 10k hours high-level Mesmer? No, not even close, because CS is incredibly situational, with a myriad of ways to use it appropriately, plan your cooldowns, and so on and so forth. It is not like having perma alacrity, or perma 25 might (as an example), which would be buffs that any player get huge value out of. What you are saying, is the same as saying that Portal is "just an instant teleport across the map, no skill in that waow", i.e. completely dumb. When compared to mirage and (especially) core, chrono is more "skilled".

Ask yourself, will a random gold [class] get as much consistent value from [overpowered skill] as some 10k hours high-level [class]? No not even close.

That's your entire argument and it works with literally everything because worse players will always get less value out of something. Got a real candidate for the 2020 stating the obvious competition here. The problem is at all levels you have to balance every skill to take into account that you could use it twice in a fight which means those singular skills have to be worse in general so that when they are reliably doubled up on they don't become overbearing.

Did literally no-one here understand that it's chrono phantasma and continuum split doubling up that made phantasm chrono so completely broken even on those gold pleb mesmers? The easiest way to figure this out was asking yourself "was the same build broken on mirage or core mesmer?" No because neither of those classes could double up on the skills involved. "Were the skills involved overpowered on core and mirage?" No because you could only use them once per cool down.

Want more? Look at Moa. The entire skill was balanced around continuum split when they reduced it's duration to 6s making it useless on all mesmer builds ever since despite core mesmer using it in core on the same cool down.

Facepalm... a lot of them actually

Hey, I at least keep it down to about 200 words. Yes it's 228, I'm allowed a little over and under!

True, can't argue with that :joy:

I try, you can see i try, i tryhard even... to do the same!

I'm starting to UNDERSTAND what @Odik.4587 means, when he said talking to Bravan is like talking to the Radio.

If i understand you right, your argument was, that you know apharma longer and based on that you assume, that apharma knows the game better (or at least you trust his comments more). I told you that the fat, that you know apharma lionger doesn't prove anythign about how right or wrogn he is, how good he knows or understand the game. Means i don't get your firts response to me. It makes no sense at all. Who is the radio here?

But me agreeing with the bulk of his opinions over the years compared to me having less opinions agreed with over the overall span of time, MAKES ME more inclined to take APHARMA's word over yours more openly.I mean we don't have to look at my case and if you want to do the read, we can take a look at Human Psychology 101.

Edit: In other words, yes I know apharma longer so I'm much more likely to take his word over yours. Why is that so surprising?

No it is ok that you will take his word over mine, i don't even care at all. I just told you, that the reasons you listed for that do not rly make much sense. But it is up to you ofc. The best would be, you start to use your own brain instead just taking anyones word, also not mine...

Being able to take and understand someone else's point (other than yours) is a fundamentally human trait. Being able to understand we're not always right is a tad bit more complicated but it's still only human trait. I don't agree with Apharma just because I know him longer, I agree with him because over the span of 8 years I've read enough of his opinions that I agreed with (even if I didn't express myself verbally,) to make me think Them and I see the game in much the same way.

[viquing.8254]

@Tayga.3192 :It's not a surprise but I'm on the side to going more into a no IP spec with other substitute.I like seize the moment suggestion.About core changes, even if there are dead traits in the list, I'm more on @Dadnir.5038 view whe he said :

You don't improve an elite spec by making core profession change. All of those impact the profession as a whole and are potential balance hazard.About retal on phantasm, well, @Pyroatheist.9031 immortal build come back ?They probably should take more look into wells.Mean if it's supposed to be teamfight spec or utility spec : wells should be impact full, shatter should be realiable aoe effects and illusions should not die in one auto as well.

@bravan.3876 :On a side note, It's lovely how you jump on litteraly EVERY mesmers post while rarely posting on other class.Mean vast majority of your replies are on mesmers asking for more "mind rework" with your usual ego tendency who should improve the ceil of the class.But ofc it's not at all a crusade on mesmer, as you said you want to rework all classes (but only by destroying mesmers.), I'm just paranoid...

@Quadox.7834 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

I think I have said it before but you simply overrate continuum split. It is not really much different from having a different form (shroud, rampage, CA), but instead of getting different skills you get to use your regular skills.

It is because contrary to having different form, skills from forms have differents traits synergy than normal skills.Mean if you take a on skills activation skill, it's 2 times more efficient if you double it while with shroud you either take a normal skill activation or a on shroud skill activation.Like @bravan.3876 explained better than my bad english.So yeah CS should be removed at least for core ulti who are garbage and were balanced with CS in mind.

[bravan.3876]

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@ArlsTipsierAlt.9138 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

You were a horrible Chrono i guess? xD Whatever i am still not in the mood for wall of text explanations of the obvious. Even more a waste of time because Anet seems to not read and understand anything about Mesmer anyway either.

nobody gets mesmer, only you.

I would never claim that. But you (and few others, asparma it seems for example) and Anet for certain not, that is all i am saying.

I can date back apharma for about as long as I've kitten posted. That alones gives me the impression that we've played the same game and have had similar experiences over time.

The problem with forum heroes is: Every 2 or so years we get a fresh batch of players wanting to express their opinion about the status quo, while repeating previously expressed opinions of now Former players.

Just that how long you know ppl and how long ppl play the game doesn't prove anything about how much they know and understand or how well they play. Also i play this game from beta days myself, still doesn't prove anything.

See where I'm getting with this?

Means you will get nowhere with that claims.

Also there is a difference between blindly repeating other opinions or adapting while rethinking stuff i heard/ read based on logic, logical deduction and own knowledge/ understanding and experience with the game. The first thing is stupidity/narrowness paired with lack of knowledge and understanding and lack in the ability of own creative thinking. The second is being flexible in mind and not stubborn while not blindly following every propaganda no matter how right the propaganda looks on a first superficial view and how good it looks for ppl without either the iq or the knowledge to look deeper by their own.

There's literally nothing you can say that will prove said point. Because of that , what're you on about?\

It's like you're arguin for the sake of argument... what are you? 15?

Please what?

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling

unless those skills are weaker than without the reset

which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

I'm so close to voluntarily getting an infraction when reading stuff like this you have no idea. You simply don't understand what something being "skilled" means. Ask yourself, will a random gold Mesmer get as much consistent value from continuum split as some 10k hours high-level Mesmer? No, not even close, because CS is incredibly situational, with a myriad of ways to use it appropriately, plan your cooldowns, and so on and so forth. It is not like having perma alacrity, or perma 25 might (as an example), which would be buffs that any player get huge value out of. What you are saying, is the same as saying that Portal is "just an instant teleport across the map, no skill in that waow", i.e. completely dumb. When compared to mirage and (especially) core, chrono is more "skilled".

Ask yourself, will a random gold [class] get as much consistent value from [overpowered skill] as some 10k hours high-level [class]? No not even close.

That's your entire argument and it works with literally everything because worse players will always get less value out of something. Got a real candidate for the 2020 stating the obvious competition here. The problem is at all levels you have to balance every skill to take into account that you could use it twice in a fight which means those singular skills have to be worse in general so that when they are reliably doubled up on they don't become overbearing.

Did literally no-one here understand that it's chrono phantasma and continuum split doubling up that made phantasm chrono so completely broken even on those gold pleb mesmers? The easiest way to figure this out was asking yourself "was the same build broken on mirage or core mesmer?" No because neither of those classes could double up on the skills involved. "Were the skills involved overpowered on core and mirage?" No because you could only use them once per cool down.

Want more? Look at Moa. The entire skill was balanced around continuum split when they reduced it's duration to 6s making it useless on all mesmer builds ever since despite core mesmer using it in core on the same cool down.

Facepalm... a lot of them actually

Hey, I at least keep it down to about 200 words. Yes it's 228, I'm allowed a little over and under!

True, can't argue with that :joy:

I try, you can see i try, i tryhard even... to do the same!

I'm starting to UNDERSTAND what @Odik.4587 means, when he said talking to Bravan is like talking to the Radio.

If i understand you right, your argument was, that you know apharma longer and based on that you assume, that apharma knows the game better (or at least you trust his comments more). I told you that the fat, that you know apharma lionger doesn't prove anythign about how right or wrogn he is, how good he knows or understand the game. Means i don't get your firts response to me. It makes no sense at all. Who is the radio here?

But me agreeing with the bulk of his opinions over the years compared to me having less opinions agreed with over the overall span of time, MAKES ME more inclined to take APHARMA's word over yours more openly.I mean we don't have to look at my case and if you want to do the read, we can take a look at Human Psychology 101.

Edit: In other words, yes I know apharma longer so I'm much more likely to take his word over yours. Why is that so surprising?

No it is ok that you will take his word over mine, i don't even care at all. I just told you, that the reasons you listed for that do not rly make much sense. But it is up to you ofc. The best would be, you start to use your own brain instead just taking anyones word, also not mine...

Being able to take and understand someone else's point (other than yours) is a fundamentally human trait. Being able to understand we're not always right is a tad bit more complicated but it's still only human trait. I don't agree with Apharma just because I know him longer, I agree with him because over the span of 8 years I've read enough of his opinions that I agreed with (even if I didn't express myself verbally,) to make me think Them and I see the game in much the same way.

Now what you say makes more sense, please re-read your first comment, you literally called me a short time playing forum hero what turns your argument into something you might not have intended but it limits it and makes it look narrowed. As said i don't care at all if you agree to me or not. I can accept and also now understand your point, also when i do not agree to apharma or you. I still would have prefered a response like "i agree to apharma, because... insert based on logic and knowledge arguments to the topic" instead only saying "i agree to apharma because i think we see the game in the same way". That would have been way more contructive for the topic itself, because tbh i don't care who you know better and agree more with or not. I am only interested in your arguments, because that is all that can convince me to be wrong in anything. Arguments based logic, facts combined with correct logical deductions, knowledge/understanding and experience with/ of the game.