Make parts of OUTFITS INTERCHANGEABLE for Late Game Content!

[Ahnlok.3897]

Like armors (most of them are ugly and do not match well with each others) in the game.Like we've been asked for many years, make outfits to interchange (since outfits are almost same price as gem store armor skins) or at least sell them separate parts like the shoulder piece for Braham's Wolfblood Outfit (If you want extra bucks for the company).Or MAKE BETTER ARMOR SKINS!!

[Swagger.1459]

Then outfits become “armor”, and “armor” takes way more development time and money to produce. Not gonna happen.

[kharmin.7683]

Yep. What Swagger said. Anet started making outfits because they are less time and resource intensive. You can search the forums on this topic to find the quote from Anet on how armor sets take so much more time.

[Linken.6345]

outfits cost as much as 2 out of 6 armor skins so no they dont cost almost the same in any sence of the wordOk was wrong forgot about the full armor skin suits like incarnate for examplehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incarnate_Light_Armor_Skin

[Fueki.4753]

While I'd love Outfits to be mixable, I can't see Arenanet bother with that.

[Ahnlok.3897]

So we all gave up on Anet then, just like how they handle wvw.

[Linken.6345]

@Ahnlok.3897 said:So we all gave up on Anet then, just like how they handle wvw.

No we did not.Outfits are outfits, armor skins are armor skins and they will not make first into the second.

[Randulf.7614]

@Ahnlok.3897 said:So we all gave up on Anet then, just like how they handle wvw.

I believe outfits were created as a fourth weight and as a result, cant be mixed and matched.

In order for outfits and armours to work together, every single outfit needs to be completely redesigned and retro fitted to each of the 3 other armour weights.

That is my basic understanding of the system.

Frankly that seems an insane amount of work to waste time on.

[Swagger.1459]

@Ahnlok.3897 said:So we all gave up on Anet then, just like how they handle wvw.

No, it’s already been explained to us for years and years...

“ Armor sets are one of (if not actually) the most time expensive things we make for GW2. Each set has an incredible amount of detail and customization, and then has to be fit to very disparate rigs.”

Each individual piece of armor needs to be created to fit 5 races X 2 genders... Now to go back over just 1 outfit means the devs would have have to make 6 new pieces of armor X 5 races X 2 genders. That ends up being 60 models needing to be made... And it’s not that Anet can’t do it, it’s just not worth the massive amount of time and money to do so.

[Taril.8619]

@"Swagger.1459" said:Each individual piece of armor needs to be created to fit 5 races X 2 genders... Now to go back over just 1 outfit means the devs would have have to make 6 new pieces of armor X 5 races X 2 genders. That ends up being 60 models needing to be made... And it’s not that Anet can’t do it, it’s just not worth the massive amount of time and money to do so.

It's more than that, as it would be 5x Races, 2x Genders and 3x Armour Weights because of the different frames that are used by Armour Weights.

Meaning 1 Outfit would require 180 models to be made.

Which is an astonishingly high amount of work when Outfits simply require 20 models to be made for the 2x Genders of 5x Races (One for the full body and one for the headgear)

At best, maybe there could be some sort of middle ground where one could mix and match Outfits with other Outfits. Thus still only needing 10 sets of armour per Outfit because of the unique 4th frame, but allowing more player customization.

The issue is it does mean re-creating every existing Outfit since it's not a simple case of "Just cutting them up" as each piece would need to be created as a separate item to be able to function (Whilst also having some specific interactions, such as how gloves work when using long sleeved tops or how boots work when using trousers), which is already partially the case for headgear hence the ability to hide it (Though, note that you can't hide the shoulder gear of an outfit meaning that isn't a separate item)

[Zephire.8049]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Ahnlok.3897 said:So we all gave up on Anet then, just like how they handle wvw.

No, it’s already been explained to us for years and years...

“ Armor sets are one of (if not actually) the most time expensive things we make for GW2. Each set has an incredible amount of detail and customization, and then has to be fit to very disparate rigs.”

Each individual piece of armor needs to be created to fit 5 races X 2 genders... Now to go back over just 1 outfit means the devs would have have to make 6 new pieces of armor X 5 races X 2 genders. That ends up being 60 models needing to be made... And it’s not that Anet can’t do it, it’s just not worth the massive amount of time and money to do so.

And don't forget the different physiques for each race and gender combo, too. Each piece has to be tested so that it stretches or shrinks in a way where it doesn't clip or look bad (which they sometimes miss the mark with). And sure some race/gender combos don't have too much variety between them, but they'd still require testing and fixing for 5+ physiques for each race/gender combo, and charr especially have some drastically different physiques on top of an already different posture.

Asura have the fewest customization options but that's still 10 physiques the devs have to test for each piece of armour. Norn have 11, charr have 13, humans have 17, and sylvari have 22. So for one piece of armour, it has to be tested and tweaked if needed to work 73 different ways. Sure some of them could (and likely do) use the same armour model and no one would be able to tell the difference, but Anet still has to spend the time testing it instead of assuming everything is fine. Throw in possible clipping issues with other pieces of armour it's no wonder they went from 438 pieces for a single armour set to outfits where they could fudge things and not worry about clipping issues with armour from a different set.

(And that's going by physique alone—ears, hair, and horns are less of an issue but they can still influence armour design.)

[Swagger.1459]

@Taril.8619 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:Each individual piece of armor needs to be created to fit 5 races X 2 genders... Now to go back over just 1 outfit means the devs would have have to make 6 new pieces of armor X 5 races X 2 genders. That ends up being 60 models needing to be made... And it’s not that Anet can’t do it, it’s just not worth the massive amount of time and money to do so.

It's more than that, as it would be 5x Races, 2x Genders and 3x Armour Weights because of the different frames that are used by Armour Weights.

Meaning 1 Outfit would require 180 models to be made.

Which is an astonishingly high amount of work when Outfits simply require 20 models to be made for the 2x Genders of 5x Races (One for the full body and one for the headgear)

At best,

maybe

there could be some sort of middle ground where one could mix and match Outfits with other Outfits. Thus still only needing 10 sets of armour per Outfit because of the unique 4th frame, but allowing more player customization.

The issue is it does mean re-creating every existing Outfit since it's not a simple case of "Just cutting them up" as each piece would need to be created as a separate item to be able to function (Whilst also having some specific interactions, such as how gloves work when using long sleeved tops or how boots work when using trousers), which is already partially the case for headgear hence the ability to hide it (Though, note that you can't hide the shoulder gear of an outfit meaning that isn't a separate item)

Ooops, forgot about that... good catch!

[Linken.6345]

@Zephire.8049 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Ahnlok.3897 said:So we all gave up on Anet then, just like how they handle wvw.

No, it’s already been explained to us for years and years...

“ Armor sets are one of (if not actually) the most time expensive things we make for GW2. Each set has an incredible amount of detail and customization, and then has to be fit to very disparate rigs.”

Each individual piece of armor needs to be created to fit 5 races X 2 genders... Now to go back over just 1 outfit means the devs would have have to make 6 new pieces of armor X 5 races X 2 genders. That ends up being 60 models needing to be made... And it’s not that Anet can’t do it, it’s just not worth the massive amount of time and money to do so.

And don't forget the different physiques for each race and gender combo, too. Each piece has to be tested so that it stretches or shrinks in a way where it doesn't clip or look bad (which they sometimes miss the mark with). And sure some race/gender combos don't have too much variety between them, but they'd still require testing and fixing for 5+ physiques for each race/gender combo, and charr especially have some drastically different physiques on top of an already different posture.

Asura have the fewest customization options but that's still 10 physiques the devs have to test for each piece of armour. Norn have 11, charr have 13, humans have 17, and sylvari have 22. So for one piece of armour, it has to be tested and tweaked if needed to work 73 different ways. Sure some of them could (and likely do) use the same armour model and no one would be able to tell the difference, but Anet still has to spend the time testing it instead of assuming everything is fine. Throw in possible clipping issues with other pieces of armour it's no wonder they went from 438 pieces for a single armour set to outfits where they could fudge things and not worry about clipping issues with armour from a different set.

(And that's going by physique alone—ears, hair, and horns are less of an issue but they can still influence armour design.)

Judging by how many skins cut of toes, ears, horns and dont have proper tail holes already I dont think they really care about that in their armor design.

[Fueki.4753]

@Zephire.8049 said:And don't forget the different physiques for each race and gender combo, too. Each piece has to be tested so that it stretches or shrinks in a way where it doesn't clip or look bad (which they sometimes miss the mark with). And sure some race/gender combos don't have too much variety between them, but they'd still require testing and fixing for 5+ physiques for each race/gender combo, and charr especially have some drastically different physiques on top of an already different posture.

Asura have the fewest customization options but that's still 10 physiques the devs have to test for each piece of armour. Norn have 11, charr have 13, humans have 17, and sylvari have 22. So for one piece of armour, it has to be tested and tweaked if needed to work 73 different ways. Sure some of them could (and likely do) use the same armour model and no one would be able to tell the difference, but Anet still has to spend the time testing it instead of assuming everything is fine. Throw in possible clipping issues with other pieces of armour it's no wonder they went from 438 pieces for a single armour set to outfits where they could fudge things and not worry about clipping issues with armour from a different set.

(And that's going by physique alone—ears, hair, and horns are less of an issue but they can still influence armour design.)

I doubt they went thriugh all that.It's more likely that they just made one male and one female version for one standard human body and then stretched it to fit the other physiques and races, except for Rytlock's Revenant armour.Said armour's tail cover looks like it has been stretched/flattened into a butt-shape for non-Charr.

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Ahnlok.3897" said:So we all gave up on Anet then, just like how they handle wvw.

No, it’s already been explained to us for years and years...

“ Armor sets are one of (if not actually) the most time expensive things we make for GW2. Each set has an incredible amount of detail and customization, and then has to be fit to very disparate rigs.”

Each individual piece of armor needs to be created to fit 5 races X 2 genders... Now to go back over just 1 outfit means the devs would have have to make 6 new pieces of armor X 5 races X 2 genders. That ends up being 60 models needing to be made... And it’s not that Anet can’t do it, it’s just not worth the massive amount of time and money to do so.

For Charr and Asura both males and females use the same models. So that's 2 races x 1 gender. Silvari, Norn and Humans use the same body models, just differently stretched. That's 1 race x 2 genders. The total amount of models needed is 4. Auto-stretching has been around in games for decades. You usually adapt a model to the biggest and smallest body type and 99% of the time the other body types fall into line nicely. So each armor has to be modeled 4 times and adapted to 8 bodies.

Why doesn't this matter? Because the same is true for outfits. This isn't part of the reason why armor is more work to create than outfits. If you want to go along the "more work" route, you should focus on armor weights. An armor set can only be worn by a single weight-class while an outfit can be worn by all 3.

The only difference between armor and outfits is that armor is split into separate parts. These splits are done along predefined lines to ensure that each piece can be mixed with every other piece. During the design process the designer has to keep in mind that gloves can only go up to this point before they enter the area that is reserved for the chest piece. The border between chest piece and trousers is even more trouble because that line is different for each armor weight. Having these predefined cuts enables us to mix and match armor freely, however it also severely limits what a designer can do. And THAT's the reason why outfits come as a single piece and will never allow mixing with other outfits.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

At least let me wear my bunny, cat, and fox ears (and deer antlers) with outfits, then I'll consider buying & using them more.

[Zephire.8049]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Zephire.8049 said:And don't forget the different physiques for each race and gender combo, too. Each piece has to be tested so that it stretches or shrinks in a way where it doesn't clip or look bad (which they sometimes miss the mark with). And sure some race/gender combos don't have too much variety between them, but they'd still require testing and fixing for 5+ physiques for each race/gender combo, and charr especially have some drastically different physiques on top of an already different posture.

Asura have the fewest customization options but that's still 10 physiques the devs have to test for each piece of armour. Norn have 11, charr have 13, humans have 17, and sylvari have 22. So for one piece of armour, it has to be tested and tweaked if needed to work 73 different ways. Sure some of them could (and likely do) use the same armour model and no one would be able to tell the difference, but Anet still has to spend the time testing it instead of assuming everything is fine. Throw in possible clipping issues with other pieces of armour it's no wonder they went from 438 pieces for a single armour set to outfits where they could fudge things and not worry about clipping issues with armour from a different set.

(And that's going by physique alone—ears, hair, and horns are less of an issue but they can still influence armour design.)

I doubt they went thriugh all that.It's more likely that they just made one male and one female version for one standard human body and then stretched it to fit the other physiques and races, except for Rytlock's Revenant armour.Said armour's tail cover looks like it has been stretched/flattened into a butt-shape for non-Charr.

They still need to check it for each physique, which I said. They may not do anything more than stretch or shrink a model but they still need to spend time checking it regardless and checking 438 options adds up even if you don't do anything to them since, as a business, Anet can't just assume something is fine without even a cursory check over. Even assuming each piece only takes 2 minutes, that's still 14.6 hours spent on one armour set.

And no, they don't make human armour the default for everything. Some of them they do (with some tweaks here and there), but much of the time there's multiple changes for each race when it comes to armour ranging from adding some extra details to completely changing the look. Humans, asura, and charr also have different enough proportions where they can't just stretch or shrink the model without it looking bad—they need to come up with a model that works with, say, long arms, a short torso, digitigrade legs, thin/thick limbs, or a hunched back. Even male norn need special consideration given how dang wide they are and no matter how HD the texture is, it's obvious when something is stretched across such a barrel chest like some of the norn physiques have.

The concept art may start with humans as the default, but what we see and get as players isn't unless the artist assigned to it thinks it's general enough that they can get away with starting from a base model for everything.