Returning player: Paywall rant

[Pii.8574]

Hello, I am a returning player and just recently found my way back to GW2 after playing some Guild Wars Pre-Searing. I thought I'd quickly share my recent experience:

I bought Heart Of Thorns and Path Of Fire with the intention to (finally) complete the Story and unlock the "new" Mounts but I just noticed that some Episodes and Mounts are locked behind an additional paywall. I am a bit confused and disappointed, as someone that preordered the game and bought both DLCs, I have to spend another 4200 Gems (over 50€) or 1764 Gold to unlock the other Story Chapters and Mounts. I like GW2 but I must say I don't like this concept at all, locking gamebreaking content behind paywalls.

I was already a bit salty when I found out about the HoT and PoF exclusive class specialization and Glider / mastery points but it keeps getting worse the more I play. Original Tyria Dungeons are more or less useless now and for Fractals you need the expansions with the specialization classes. Sometimes I can't even keep up with some map metas because when I finally reach the next event destination, the people with the Skyscale already finished it. It feels like I wasted a lot of time back in the early days and now I have to pay a lot of money to be able to keep up even with the playerbase.

So last night while doing The Shatterer Meta a kind person PMed me something along the lines of "Ohh hi! Are you a new player or a returning one? I've never seen a GWAMM with so few MP!" and needless to say I felt like the biggest noob despite playing this game for so long. I have no problem keeping up with gear and meta builds but it feels like people have to buy into DLCs and Story Content / Mounts to be able to truly enjoy the game these days. And no, not all of those things are unlockable via in-game currency.

Anyway, I just wanted to vent a bit and share my personal opinion. Maybe some of you can relate or understand that it's quite the turn-off for returning players but I'm also aware that many of you have absolutely no problem with it. It just doesn't feel right to me.

Have a nice day!

[Cyninja.2954]

@Pii.8574 said:Anyway, I just wanted to vent a bit and share my personal opinion. Maybe some of you can relate or understand that it's quite the turn-off for returning players but I'm also aware that many of you have absolutely no problem with it. It just doesn't feel right to me.

The main issue with living world episodes is that the extra monetization on them is unclear to players both new an returning. That's unfortunate and could use some better integration or warning.

Not to be confused though with the fact that they are monetized the way they are:If you weren't around supporting the game while those episodes were being developed, not even finding the time to log in, then you have to pay the developers retroactively. Content development is not free and the game did not survive 8 years by people NOT playing or supporting it.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Not sure what's not accessible via in-game currency. (Every Mount and every Living World Season Episode can be acquired with Gold (to Gems).You don't need every Living World Season Episode for Mounts; mainly just Season 4 for Skyscale.You can easily get a Raptor (and Springer) to 'keep up'; no real money paywall.I'm not sure about Fractals, but I don't think you need Elite Specializations to play them at all; perhaps for the highest tiers. Still, there's no paywall for Elite Specializations.

[Randulf.7614]

Well to reguular players, it doesn't cost at al. It's free if you login during the intiial 2 month release. They are rewrading players who login at least once every 2 months with free content, with has a lot of merit from that perspective.

The issue is that that Seasons are abominably marketed for new and returning players and it is off putting. There needs to be a system to include them more clearly in the packages when buying expacs in the store.

[Aardwolf.6085]

@Pii.8574 said:And no, not all of those things are unlockable via in-game currency.

That's how major expansions have always worked though. Throughout the history of gaming, expansions brought something new that is not obtainable without owning the expansion. Gliding and mounts are THE big tickets in attracting players to buy HoT and PoF besides the story and new maps. besides that you can buy everything else with in-game currency. And things like raids are also map-based, so you can't do them without owning that map. it's how MMO companies make sure people buy the expansions, you need to have a paywall of some sorts to stay afloat.

I would agree that realising you need to buy the living story episodes retroactively is not the best, buying the expansions should at the least be done in such a way that you are up to date with episodes when you buy a major expansion.

[Parasite.5389]

I've never looked at Living world content as something free you buy 'retroactivly', but as paid-content i get for free at launch.

I know this is just a matter of perspective, but when you consider how many other video games release new content with the intention of it being behind a paywall from day one, Guild Wars 2's model seems like a godsend.

[Pii.8574]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"Pii.8574" said:Anyway, I just wanted to vent a bit and share my personal opinion. Maybe some of you can relate or understand that it's quite the turn-off for returning players but I'm also aware that many of you have absolutely no problem with it. It just doesn't feel right to me.

The main issue with living world episodes is that the extra monetization on them is unclear to players both new an returning. That's unfortunate and could use some better integration or warning.

Not to be confused though with the fact that they are monetized the way they are:If you weren't around supporting the game while those episodes were being developed, not even finding the time to log in, then you have to pay the developers retroactively. Content development is not free and the game did not survive 8 years by people NOT playing or supporting it.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem supporting them - I already spent hundreds of dollars for Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2 (along with 7000-8000 hours of playtime). I have no problem unlocking the story with gold, that's really not the issue. It's more the feeling that they develop the game in a way that forces people to buy the new content in order to keep up with the meta. It looks more like "unbalanced must-have content" rather than the balanced, optional "high-quality content" I expected.

Also I don't think there is a way to unlock Elite Specializations or Mastery Points without buying the DLCs and it's out of question that they provide immense advantages not just in form of PvE QoL but even in the PvP environment.

[kharmin.7683]

@"Pii.8574" said:It's more the feeling that they develop the game in a way that forces people to buy the new content in order to keep up with the meta.What other MMO doesn't do this? At least GW2 doesn't have vertical progression.

Also I don't think there is a way to unlock Elite Specializations or Mastery Points without buying the DLCs and it's out of question that they provide immense advantages not just in form of PvE QoL but even in the PvP environment.It's called "incentive". Without it, why would anyone purchase the expansions?

[Ultramex.1506]

So i checked the purchase page, you get ice brood saga too so not all episodes are locked, and Living world bundle ARE CURRENTLY ON SALE!! So buy them already! but i'm just gonna leave this here for all rant about the "episodic paywall"

Do you know Elder Scroll Online? The game that you pay 60$ (price taken from steam) then another 15$ a month to access all DLCs, and the game DON'T have currency exchange, you need to give gold to a stranger for a DLC gift, and expect to get scammed

When gw2 give away episodes for free just by logging on the day of it release, make me wonder why a small company like Anet would do such thing and not Zenimax Online, because of this if you don't pay in ESO you will never experience the full story which are separated between DLCs, not only that unless you buy with crown you will need to re-sub every month to continue playing in those zones

I bought Season 2 using gold i got by just playing the game, and that is my rant about these complaints, you don't like it? Fine but, imo, this is more fair than a triple A company, i can imagine you would make the same post on ESO

[Pii.8574]

@Aardwolf.6085 said:

@"Pii.8574" said:And no, not all of those things are unlockable via in-game currency.

That's how major expansions have always worked though. Throughout the history of gaming, expansions brought something new that is not obtainable without owning the expansion. Gliding and mounts are THE big tickets in attracting players to buy HoT and PoF besides the story and new maps. besides that you can buy everything else with in-game currency. And things like raids are also map-based, so you can't do them without owning that map. it's how MMO companies make sure people buy the expansions, you need to have a paywall of some sorts to stay afloat.

I would agree that realising you need to buy the living story episodes retroactively is not the best, buying the expansions should at the least be done in such a way that you are up to date with episodes when you buy a major expansion.

I guess I can agree with that. Most of the disappointment comes from the content that's locked behind a paywall even after buying all the DLC content or the so called "Ultimate Edition" that still requires you to pay $50 to actually get the full content.

It's a bit confusing and misleading and looks like a shameless money grab.

[Vayne.8563]

@Pii.8574 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Pii.8574 said:Anyway, I just wanted to vent a bit and share my personal opinion. Maybe some of you can relate or understand that it's quite the turn-off for returning players but I'm also aware that many of you have absolutely no problem with it. It just doesn't feel right to me.

The main issue with living world episodes is that the extra monetization on them is unclear to players both new an returning. That's unfortunate and could use some better integration or warning.

Not to be confused though with the fact that they are monetized the way they are:If you weren't around supporting the game while those episodes were being developed, not even finding the time to log in, then you have to pay the developers retroactively. Content development is not free and the game did not survive 8 years by people NOT playing or supporting it.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem supporting them - I already spent hundreds of dollars for Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2 (along with 7000-8000 hours of playtime). I have no problem unlocking the story with gold, that's really not the issue. It's more the feeling that they develop the game in a way that forces people to buy the new content in order to keep up with the meta. It looks more like "unbalanced must-have content" rather than the balanced, optional "high-quality content" I expected.

Also I don't think there is a way to unlock Elite Specializations or Mastery Points without buying the DLCs and it's out of question that they provide immense advantages not just in form of PvE QoL but even in the PvP environment.

I don't know. Some of the best skills in Guild Wars 1 were the PvE only skills from specific expansions. Want an Imbagon paragon...have to have Nightfall. Of course, GW 1 unlocked specific professions behind two of their titles. But some of the EotN skills, like the headshot one (I forget what it's called but it was very powerful) among others like necrosis from Nightfall were some of the most powerful skills in the game.

I bought all four Guild Wars 1 titles pretty much as they came out and spent more on them then I did on ALL the GW 2 expansions. As a loyal player who'd been here all along I've never paid a penny for any episode of the living world.

The only real issue here is the lack of how this is communicated. But it's still very cheap for what is essentally 7 years of content, with an option to buy them in game for gold.

[Metzie.3451]

@"Pii.8574" said:just doesn't feel right to me.

The "additional" monetisation of the episodes is completely acceptable (if you are online or active at the time of release, they are even free until a new one is released). My point of view. You can also exchange currency in the game - what more could you want?

HOWEVER, it is cumbersome, deficient and sometimes annoying that you usually only get more information about certain things by doing them yourself, better, only when you actively play or want to play certain contents. In other words, you are basically well advised to ALWAYS read or browse the official Wiki first! :) This is what I always tell or advise every (new or returning) player. If the player does not do this, it is his own fault. As stupid as it sounds.

Enclosed, there are occasional special offers and low-priced episode packages. Whoever follows this is of course at an advantage. Possibly these are currently available or will be in the near future. Such information can also be obtained through the Wiki, "History of offers". Or through direct announcements on the official website. Just keep an eye out!

[AliamRationem.5172]

Keep in mind you can purchase everything except the expansions by exchanging gold for gems. The cost is usually 60-70g per episode at full price, last I checked. You can easily earn the gold you need just playing through the story, map, and some of the achievements and then move on to the next episode.

Having said that, I wouldn't be opposed to a change in pricing structure. This is not really "optional" content for long-term PvE players. It's fine for those of us who have been here for most of the story and unlocked it for free. However, for new and returning players that barrier just grows with every episode. Perhaps they would consider a one-time gem shop purchase to unlock all of the previous episodes for a more reasonable price? Like 1K gems get the whole story and all future episodes? Something like that. I don't presume to know what would make sense.

[Pii.8574]

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Having said that, I wouldn't be opposed to a change in pricing structure. This is not really "optional" content for long-term PvE players. It's fine for those of us who have been here for most of the story and unlocked it for free. However, for new and returning players that barrier just grows with every episode. Perhaps they would consider a one-time gem shop purchase to unlock all of the previous episodes for a more reasonable price? Like 1K gems get the whole story and all future episodes? Something like that. I don't presume to know what would make sense.

Exactly, it's not really "optional" for PvE and that's why I expected it to be easier accessible - especially when I empathise with completly new players.Mounts, mastery points, even gliding and some of the elite specialisations are all locked behind a paywall. Then I look at oldschool quality content such as the jumping puzzles that almost made me lose my mind - and find out nowaways you can just fly / jump / glide there - but only if you spent enough money?

You all made some good points but I also think some people don't know anymore what it feels like to play GW2 without a glider, not to mention without mounts when everyone else is flying past you. So I don't think it's an exaggeration when I say that content is gamebreaking but it's probably also true that I am just a spoiled brat with an unpopular opinion when I say these gamebreaking mechanics shouldn't be locked behind a paywall ;-)

Have a nice day all and thanks everyone for the inputs.

[Babadook.9027]

ya this is one of the reason i wont play ESO because of so SO much dlc to buy , but gw2 dlc's aren't that much money and there great and worth it :)