There a reason that ES weapons are still restricted to ES? - [Merged]

[robertthebard.8150]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"robertthebard.8150" said:So just to stick to my example, which version of dagger are they going to use? What happens if they choose the "wrong" version? My DD's staff behaves very differently from an Ele's staff, which staff should they use?What a weird question - the elite spec one, obviously. The skills are already done, after all. Seriously, what version of the core class weapons do you think the elite specs use? Why do you think it would work one way, but not the other?

To use the great sword example again, Warrior, Ranger and Mesmer all use it, but it's a different weapon on all three classes, based on the skills it gives.Sure, but Berserker and Spellbreaker do use the Warrior version, Druid and Soulbeast do use the Ranger version, and Chrono and Mirage do use the Mesmer version.

To answer your other question, they coded one set of skills for one class for the trident. What happens if you want to use it on another class that can already use the trident, and you don't get those skills?How is that important? We're not enablin a weapon on class that the class could use before. We're allowing a weapon on class that a specific

elite spec

could use, but

not

the core class or other elite spec. There's absolutely no danger of getting two sets of skills or anything like that.

Even e spec weapons will run into this problem on classes that can already use the base weapon.There's no such case. In fact, the whole thread exists exactly because it is

not

something that happens.

Seriously, we're not talking about core classes getting access to weapons of elite specs of

other

classes. Thus, all the "problems" you keep bringing up have an exactly zero chance of happening, and we don;t need to think about them at all.

The only reason a DD staff functions the way it does is specifically DD. It's not the weapon that changes, but the class that changes it. Any other variables can be adjusted to suit what you're wanting it to do for the spec it's going to, elite or otherwise. So, in order to make this work, all classes will have to have access to all e specs. As I said, the weapons do different things according to what class they're used on, this also applies to e specs, since they're essentially another class. DD makes the staff, not the other way around.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:Because Trident wasn't hardcoded into an elite spec.What does that have anything to do with a core class being able to use it or not? Especially if, like @Blocki.4931 said in his original claim, especs are treated as separate classes for weapon availability? It's not like a weapon being accessible by one class prevents it from being used by another, after all.

@robertthebard.8150 said:I have no access to code, but, a dagger does something different on different classes, off the top of my head. A thief using it off hand certainly doesn't get the same skills an Ele does. That's the element that's probably hardcoded.No more or less hardcoded that any other skills are. And yet they did add skills to core classes throughout the GW2 history.Besides, notice how those skills for elite spec weapons are already in the game. You don't need to make them

Anet was talking about possibly adding new weapons to the classes since the very beginning of the game. As such, i don't find it likely that they've made those classes in a way that would make adding weapons to them prohibitively hard.

So just to stick to my example, which version of dagger are they going to use? What happens if they choose the "wrong" version? My DD's staff behaves very differently from an Ele's staff, which staff should they use? I'm not sure how that applies to other classes, as I haven't used them enough to know. I do know that a Mesmer with a GS does something completely different than what a Warrior does with the same weapon. If every weapon behaved the same way on every class, this wouldn't be hard to do at all, but they don't. To use the great sword example again, Warrior, Ranger and Mesmer all use it, but it's a different weapon on all three classes, based on the skills it gives.

To answer your other question, they coded one set of skills for one class for the trident. What happens if you want to use it on another class that can already use the trident, and you don't get those skills? Even e spec weapons will run into this problem on classes that can already use the base weapon. Since, as I mentioned, weapons don't perform the same way across the board, and we really don't want them to, which versions are they going to make available, and what happens when the version they decide is the best to use doesn't meet what certain members of the community wanted? The short answer is a thread similar to this one.

I'm honestly not even sure what point you're trying to make anymore? Its confusing.

A weapon is literally just a variable in the code, with an attached graphic, and an attached animation.

Which is unique for whichever class is using it. The class determines the weapon's function, not the weapon type. As mentioned in my previous post, in order to make this function properly, all classes would have to have access to all e specs, because that's how the game's coded to deal with them.

[Fractured.3928]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:Because Trident wasn't hardcoded into an elite spec.What does that have anything to do with a core class being able to use it or not? Especially if, like @Blocki.4931 said in his original claim, especs are treated as separate classes for weapon availability? It's not like a weapon being accessible by one class prevents it from being used by another, after all.

@robertthebard.8150 said:I have no access to code, but, a dagger does something different on different classes, off the top of my head. A thief using it off hand certainly doesn't get the same skills an Ele does. That's the element that's probably hardcoded.No more or less hardcoded that any other skills are. And yet they did add skills to core classes throughout the GW2 history.Besides, notice how those skills for elite spec weapons are already in the game. You don't need to make them

Anet was talking about possibly adding new weapons to the classes since the very beginning of the game. As such, i don't find it likely that they've made those classes in a way that would make adding weapons to them prohibitively hard.

So just to stick to my example, which version of dagger are they going to use? What happens if they choose the "wrong" version? My DD's staff behaves very differently from an Ele's staff, which staff should they use? I'm not sure how that applies to other classes, as I haven't used them enough to know. I do know that a Mesmer with a GS does something completely different than what a Warrior does with the same weapon. If every weapon behaved the same way on every class, this wouldn't be hard to do at all, but they don't. To use the great sword example again, Warrior, Ranger and Mesmer all use it, but it's a different weapon on all three classes, based on the skills it gives.

To answer your other question, they coded one set of skills for one class for the trident. What happens if you want to use it on another class that can already use the trident, and you don't get those skills? Even e spec weapons will run into this problem on classes that can already use the base weapon. Since, as I mentioned, weapons don't perform the same way across the board, and we really don't want them to, which versions are they going to make available, and what happens when the version they decide is the best to use doesn't meet what certain members of the community wanted? The short answer is a thread similar to this one.

I'm honestly not even sure what point you're trying to make anymore? Its confusing.

A weapon is literally just a variable in the code, with an attached graphic, and an attached animation.

Which is unique for whichever class is using it. The class determines the weapon's function, not the weapon type. As mentioned in my previous post, in order to make this function properly, all classes would have to have access to all e specs, because that's how the game's coded to deal with them.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know how the game is coded?

[robertthebard.8150]

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:Because Trident wasn't hardcoded into an elite spec.What does that have anything to do with a core class being able to use it or not? Especially if, like @Blocki.4931 said in his original claim, especs are treated as separate classes for weapon availability? It's not like a weapon being accessible by one class prevents it from being used by another, after all.

@robertthebard.8150 said:I have no access to code, but, a dagger does something different on different classes, off the top of my head. A thief using it off hand certainly doesn't get the same skills an Ele does. That's the element that's probably hardcoded.No more or less hardcoded that any other skills are. And yet they did add skills to core classes throughout the GW2 history.Besides, notice how those skills for elite spec weapons are already in the game. You don't need to make them

Anet was talking about possibly adding new weapons to the classes since the very beginning of the game. As such, i don't find it likely that they've made those classes in a way that would make adding weapons to them prohibitively hard.

So just to stick to my example, which version of dagger are they going to use? What happens if they choose the "wrong" version? My DD's staff behaves very differently from an Ele's staff, which staff should they use? I'm not sure how that applies to other classes, as I haven't used them enough to know. I do know that a Mesmer with a GS does something completely different than what a Warrior does with the same weapon. If every weapon behaved the same way on every class, this wouldn't be hard to do at all, but they don't. To use the great sword example again, Warrior, Ranger and Mesmer all use it, but it's a different weapon on all three classes, based on the skills it gives.

To answer your other question, they coded one set of skills for one class for the trident. What happens if you want to use it on another class that can already use the trident, and you don't get those skills? Even e spec weapons will run into this problem on classes that can already use the base weapon. Since, as I mentioned, weapons don't perform the same way across the board, and we really don't want them to, which versions are they going to make available, and what happens when the version they decide is the best to use doesn't meet what certain members of the community wanted? The short answer is a thread similar to this one.

I'm honestly not even sure what point you're trying to make anymore? Its confusing.

A weapon is literally just a variable in the code, with an attached graphic, and an attached animation.

Which is unique for whichever class is using it. The class determines the weapon's function, not the weapon type. As mentioned in my previous post, in order to make this function properly, all classes would have to have access to all e specs, because that's how the game's coded to deal with them.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know how the game is coded?

I play it? I equip weapons on characters, and observe what skills they give when I do. I notice that different classes get different skills for the same weapon types, and I know that's down to how they're coded. I don't have to have backend knowledge of the game, this is observable on the user level. A staff on my Weaver performs significantly different from a staff on my DD. I don't have to have any understanding of game code to notice this, I simply have to equip the weapons in question on a spec that can use them to see it.

So, when I equip a staff on my DD, I don't get Ele skills. Why is that? Because the game is coded to read "DD spec, assign skills a-e". If it went on weapon type alone, then Ele would get DD skills, or, since Ele was in first, DDs would get Ele skills. Instead, the code checks the class, and assigns the appropriate skills for allowed weapons. That it's coded based on class is observable by the classes that use the same weapon, but get different skills accordingly. It doesn't matter if it's Core or Elite, that's how the game handles weapons.

[Fractured.3928]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:Because Trident wasn't hardcoded into an elite spec.What does that have anything to do with a core class being able to use it or not? Especially if, like @Blocki.4931 said in his original claim, especs are treated as separate classes for weapon availability? It's not like a weapon being accessible by one class prevents it from being used by another, after all.

@robertthebard.8150 said:I have no access to code, but, a dagger does something different on different classes, off the top of my head. A thief using it off hand certainly doesn't get the same skills an Ele does. That's the element that's probably hardcoded.No more or less hardcoded that any other skills are. And yet they did add skills to core classes throughout the GW2 history.Besides, notice how those skills for elite spec weapons are already in the game. You don't need to make them

Anet was talking about possibly adding new weapons to the classes since the very beginning of the game. As such, i don't find it likely that they've made those classes in a way that would make adding weapons to them prohibitively hard.

So just to stick to my example, which version of dagger are they going to use? What happens if they choose the "wrong" version? My DD's staff behaves very differently from an Ele's staff, which staff should they use? I'm not sure how that applies to other classes, as I haven't used them enough to know. I do know that a Mesmer with a GS does something completely different than what a Warrior does with the same weapon. If every weapon behaved the same way on every class, this wouldn't be hard to do at all, but they don't. To use the great sword example again, Warrior, Ranger and Mesmer all use it, but it's a different weapon on all three classes, based on the skills it gives.

To answer your other question, they coded one set of skills for one class for the trident. What happens if you want to use it on another class that can already use the trident, and you don't get those skills? Even e spec weapons will run into this problem on classes that can already use the base weapon. Since, as I mentioned, weapons don't perform the same way across the board, and we really don't want them to, which versions are they going to make available, and what happens when the version they decide is the best to use doesn't meet what certain members of the community wanted? The short answer is a thread similar to this one.

I'm honestly not even sure what point you're trying to make anymore? Its confusing.

A weapon is literally just a variable in the code, with an attached graphic, and an attached animation.

Which is unique for whichever class is using it. The class determines the weapon's function, not the weapon type. As mentioned in my previous post, in order to make this function properly, all classes would have to have access to all e specs, because that's how the game's coded to deal with them.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know how the game is coded?

I play it? I equip weapons on characters, and observe what skills they give when I do. I notice that different classes get different skills for the same weapon types, and I know that's down to how they're coded. I don't have to have backend knowledge of the game, this is observable on the user level. A staff on my Weaver performs significantly different from a staff on my DD. I don't have to have any understanding of game code to notice this, I simply have to equip the weapons in question on a spec that can use them to see it.

So, when I equip a staff on my DD, I don't get Ele skills. Why is that? Because the game is coded to read "DD spec, assign skills a-e". If it went on weapon type alone, then Ele would get DD skills, or, since Ele was in first, DDs would get Ele skills. Instead, the code checks the class, and assigns the appropriate skills for allowed weapons. That it's coded based on class is observable by the classes that use the same weapon, but get different skills accordingly. It doesn't matter if it's Core or Elite, that's how the game handles weapons.

So you're making this all up as you go, got it. Well I'll leave you to it then.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:Because Trident wasn't hardcoded into an elite spec.What does that have anything to do with a core class being able to use it or not? Especially if, like @Blocki.4931 said in his original claim, especs are treated as separate classes for weapon availability? It's not like a weapon being accessible by one class prevents it from being used by another, after all.

@robertthebard.8150 said:I have no access to code, but, a dagger does something different on different classes, off the top of my head. A thief using it off hand certainly doesn't get the same skills an Ele does. That's the element that's probably hardcoded.No more or less hardcoded that any other skills are. And yet they did add skills to core classes throughout the GW2 history.Besides, notice how those skills for elite spec weapons are already in the game. You don't need to make them

Anet was talking about possibly adding new weapons to the classes since the very beginning of the game. As such, i don't find it likely that they've made those classes in a way that would make adding weapons to them prohibitively hard.

So just to stick to my example, which version of dagger are they going to use? What happens if they choose the "wrong" version? My DD's staff behaves very differently from an Ele's staff, which staff should they use? I'm not sure how that applies to other classes, as I haven't used them enough to know. I do know that a Mesmer with a GS does something completely different than what a Warrior does with the same weapon. If every weapon behaved the same way on every class, this wouldn't be hard to do at all, but they don't. To use the great sword example again, Warrior, Ranger and Mesmer all use it, but it's a different weapon on all three classes, based on the skills it gives.

To answer your other question, they coded one set of skills for one class for the trident. What happens if you want to use it on another class that can already use the trident, and you don't get those skills? Even e spec weapons will run into this problem on classes that can already use the base weapon. Since, as I mentioned, weapons don't perform the same way across the board, and we really don't want them to, which versions are they going to make available, and what happens when the version they decide is the best to use doesn't meet what certain members of the community wanted? The short answer is a thread similar to this one.

I'm honestly not even sure what point you're trying to make anymore? Its confusing.

A weapon is literally just a variable in the code, with an attached graphic, and an attached animation.

Which is unique for whichever class is using it. The class determines the weapon's function, not the weapon type. As mentioned in my previous post, in order to make this function properly, all classes would have to have access to all e specs, because that's how the game's coded to deal with them.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know how the game is coded?

I play it? I equip weapons on characters, and observe what skills they give when I do. I notice that different classes get different skills for the same weapon types, and I know that's down to how they're coded. I don't have to have backend knowledge of the game, this is observable on the user level. A staff on my Weaver performs significantly different from a staff on my DD. I don't have to have any understanding of game code to notice this, I simply have to equip the weapons in question on a spec that can use them to see it.

So, when I equip a staff on my DD, I don't get Ele skills. Why is that? Because the game is coded to read "DD spec, assign skills a-e". If it went on weapon type alone, then Ele would get DD skills, or, since Ele was in first, DDs would get Ele skills. Instead, the code checks the class, and assigns the appropriate skills for allowed weapons. That it's coded based on class is observable by the classes that use the same weapon, but get different skills accordingly. It doesn't matter if it's Core or Elite, that's how the game handles weapons.

So you're making this all up as you go, got it. Well I'll leave you to it then.

Really? So a Great Sword on your Warrior and Ranger behave exactly the same, and give exactly the same skills? You're the only one in the game to have that happen. One of us is making stuff up...

[Astralporing.1957]

@robertthebard.8150 said:The only reason a DD staff functions the way it does is specifically DD. It's not the weapon that changes, but the class that changes it.

What does that have anything to do with what i have said?

As I said, the weapons do different things according to what class they're used on, this also applies to e specs, since they're essentially another class. DD makes the staff, not the other way around.But DD does not make the dagger, sword, pistol, shortbow... those are Thief weapons. So, if DD can use Thief weapons, why Thief can't use a DD one?

@robertthebard.8150 said:Which is unique for whichever class is using it. The class determines the weapon's function, not the weapon type.

The fact that elite specs do share their core class weapon skills clearly shows that there's no requirement for it to be unique.

As mentioned in my previous post, in order to make this function properly, all classes would have to have access to all e specs, because that's how the game's coded to deal with them.No, all you need is to assing a specific skill set to specific weapon. As elite specs show, this does not have to be an unique skill set. This can be done on case by case basis. They could easily make core thief have access to DD's melee staff, but not to DE's rifle, if they wanted. Just as probably they could give core thief access to weapons neither DD no DD would have. And doing any of those thinsg would have no impact whatsoever on how for example Herald and Renegade would work.

All the "problems" you see that might prevent implementing OP's wish do not exist in game as it is now. You might have had some point if there was a case of two elite specs for the same class having the same espec weapon - but with different skills. Which, at the moment, is a moot point, because no such case exists yet.

[Taril.8619]

Are people really arguing about coding affecting weapon availability?

Base class determines what skills are obtained from a weapon type.

The initial trait for an E-Spec determines what additional weapon types are able to be equipped. Just like the first trait changes class mechanics where relevant (Allowing for such oddities as say, "Scourge" using a Torch but having Death Shroud by only putting the 30 points to unlock the Scourge trait line but not unlocking any traits from it and equipping it)

There are cases such as Deadeye, where core weapons are altered (I.e. Gaining "Malicious" variants of their stealth attacks) but it's not as if E-Specs are so different that they're using completely unique versions of "Core" weapons.

Even IF there was such spaghetti code where each E-Spec is made as an entirely unique class... Then it's still literally a case of just copy/pasting the code that enables use of the new weapon type, with the code for the skills relevant to that E-Spec and putting it into the code for the Core class and other E-Spec(s).

Unless you're implying that existing code cannot be altered or added to at all (Which I guess the lack of updates for Core weapons and Utilities could suggest...) and thus such a thing is impossible to do?

[Fractured.3928]

@"Taril.8619" said:Are people really arguing about coding affecting weapon availability?

Base class determines what skills are obtained from a weapon type.

The initial trait for an E-Spec determines what additional weapon types are able to be equipped. Just like the first trait changes class mechanics where relevant (Allowing for such oddities as say, "Scourge" using a Torch but having Death Shroud by only putting the 30 points to unlock the Scourge trait line but not unlocking any traits from it and equipping it)

There are cases such as Deadeye, where core weapons are altered (I.e. Gaining "Malicious" variants of their stealth attacks) but it's not as if E-Specs are so different that they're using completely unique versions of "Core" weapons.

Even IF there was such spaghetti code where each E-Spec is made as an entirely unique class... Then it's still literally a case of just copy/pasting the code that enables use of the new weapon type, with the code for the skills relevant to that E-Spec and putting it into the code for the Core class and other E-Spec(s).

Unless you're implying that existing code cannot be altered or added to at all (Which I guess the lack of updates for Core weapons and Utilities could suggest...) and thus such a thing is impossible to do?

Honestly I don't even know what they are implying anymore.

All I know is, my suggestion "should" not be difficult as long as the game is coded in a semi-realistic way. But I can't see the code, so alas.

That being said, balance is a totally different issue. One, which I don't think is an issue (Already huge imbalances in the game, this really wouldn't be changing that fact) . The weaver, is though.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:The only reason a DD staff functions the way it does is specifically DD. It's not the weapon that changes, but the class that changes it.

What does that have anything to do with what i have said?

As I said, the weapons do different things according to what class they're used on, this also applies to e specs, since they're essentially another class. DD makes the staff, not the other way around.But DD does

not

make the dagger, sword, pistol, shortbow... those are Thief weapons. So, if DD can use Thief weapons, why Thief can't use a DD one?

@robertthebard.8150 said:Which is unique for whichever class is using it. The class determines the weapon's function, not the weapon type.

The fact that elite specs do share their core class weapon skills clearly shows that there's no requirement for it to be unique.

As mentioned in my previous post, in order to make this function properly, all classes would have to have access to all e specs, because that's how the game's coded to deal with them.No, all you need is to assing a specific skill set to specific weapon. As elite specs show, this does

not

have to be an unique skill set. This can be done on case by case basis. They could easily make core thief have access to DD's melee staff, but

not

to DE's rifle, if they wanted. Just as probably they could give core thief access to weapons neither DD no DD would have. And doing any of those thinsg would have no impact whatsoever on how for example Herald and Renegade would work.

All the "problems" you see that might prevent implementing OP's wish do not exist in game as it is now. You might have had some point if there was a case of two elite specs for the same class having the same espec weapon - but with different skills. Which, at the moment, is a moot point, because no such case exists yet.

Yes, the Core spec for an Elite spec determines how the core weapon functions, I've already stated that, and implied it with the "all e specs would have to be available to all classes". Why else do you suppose I would think that? The same check that says "staff equipped on DD" says "dagger equipped on thief". The problem with your logic here is quite simply this: What skills from the utility bar are no longer available when you go from Thief to DD? All of the core utilities and base weapons allowed on your character are set in character creation, when you choose your class, and all of these choices are carried over into your e spec. Some of them may well be altered in some way, and this would be attributed to the e spec, not the weapon that the spec adds to the mix.

All of the problems I see do, in fact, exist, it's why we have limited selections of weapons on classes. They exist, btw, because of the way the game handles weapons being equipped, different skills depending on the class, whether that's core or e spec is irrelevant. A staff on a druid is a different weapon from a staff on a DD, but, as a druid, you can equip any staff you want, it's not limited to just one. This means that, despite "being made up" or "not existing", that these weapon's behaviors are not dictated by the weapon itself, but by the class equipping it. So one of two solutions would need to be implemented:

Make all weapon types behave in exactly the same way on any class, which would, I suspect, have an affect on why people would want this, or, make all e specs available to all classes, which, I suspect, would also counter why people would want this. I'm also certain that it's not for aesthetic reasons, but functionality, that one would want something like this added, but the functionality is tied to the spec/e spec, not the weapon itself.

[Sobx.1758]

@Fractured.3928 said:

@"flog.3485" said:Because balance.

Just imagine what would happen if you are a mirage and you get access to shield. No balance updates would make it fair neither fun to play against.

But who knows ? Maybe that is the big plan. Nerf the ES so hard so that in the future you can play whatever spec with whatever weapon (with the exception of core spec using ES weapons obviously).

As far as I'm aware, there are only a couple specs at most that would cause balance issues. I don't believe that is enough reason to remove a fairly significant amount of playstyles. PVP can keep their restrictions if they want, I don't do it lol.

What do you mean it's not enough? Some of the weapons are strictly tied to the espec mechanics, which makes it impossible to reasonably use for core specs. They're also strictly balanced (better or worse, w/e) around changed class mechanics/playstyle. I'm not sure why you say "just a couple specs at most that would cause balance issues isn't enough". It very much is enough and just potentially piles up more issues and nerfs that otherwise wouldn't happen.

[Sobx.1758]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:Because Trident wasn't hardcoded into an elite spec.What does that have anything to do with a core class being able to use it or not? Especially if, like @Blocki.4931 said in his original claim, especs are treated as separate classes for weapon availability? It's not like a weapon being accessible by one class prevents it from being used by another, after all.

@robertthebard.8150 said:I have no access to code, but, a dagger does something different on different classes, off the top of my head. A thief using it off hand certainly doesn't get the same skills an Ele does. That's the element that's probably hardcoded.No more or less hardcoded that any other skills are. And yet they did add skills to core classes throughout the GW2 history.Besides, notice how those skills for elite spec weapons are already in the game. You don't need to make them

Anet was talking about possibly adding new weapons to the classes since the very beginning of the game. As such, i don't find it likely that they've made those classes in a way that would make adding weapons to them prohibitively hard.

So just to stick to my example, which version of dagger are they going to use? What happens if they choose the "wrong" version? My DD's staff behaves very differently from an Ele's staff, which staff should they use? I'm not sure how that applies to other classes, as I haven't used them enough to know. I do know that a Mesmer with a GS does something completely different than what a Warrior does with the same weapon. If every weapon behaved the same way on every class, this wouldn't be hard to do at all, but they don't. To use the great sword example again, Warrior, Ranger and Mesmer all use it, but it's a different weapon on all three classes, based on the skills it gives.

To answer your other question, they coded one set of skills for one class for the trident. What happens if you want to use it on another class that can already use the trident, and you don't get those skills? Even e spec weapons will run into this problem on classes that can already use the base weapon. Since, as I mentioned, weapons don't perform the same way across the board, and we really don't want them to, which versions are they going to make available, and what happens when the version they decide is the best to use doesn't meet what certain members of the community wanted? The short answer is a thread similar to this one.

I'm honestly not even sure what point you're trying to make anymore? Its confusing.

A weapon is literally just a variable in the code, with an attached graphic, and an attached animation.

Which is unique for whichever class is using it. The class determines the weapon's function, not the weapon type. As mentioned in my previous post, in order to make this function properly, all classes would have to have access to all e specs, because that's how the game's coded to deal with them.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know how the game is coded?

I play it? I equip weapons on characters, and observe what skills they give when I do. I notice that different classes get different skills for the same weapon types, and I know that's down to how they're coded. I don't have to have backend knowledge of the game, this is observable on the user level. A staff on my Weaver performs significantly different from a staff on my DD. I don't have to have any understanding of game code to notice this, I simply have to equip the weapons in question on a spec that can use them to see it.

So, when I equip a staff on my DD, I don't get Ele skills. Why is that? Because the game is coded to read "DD spec, assign skills a-e". If it went on weapon type alone, then Ele would get DD skills, or, since Ele was in first, DDs would get Ele skills. Instead, the code checks the class, and assigns the appropriate skills for allowed weapons. That it's coded based on class is observable by the classes that use the same weapon, but get different skills accordingly. It doesn't matter if it's Core or Elite, that's how the game handles weapons.

So you're making this all up as you go, got it. Well I'll leave you to it then.

Really? So a Great Sword on your Warrior and Ranger behave exactly the same, and give exactly the same skills? You're the only one in the game to have that happen. One of us is making stuff up...

You have no point here -as far as I understand what you're talking about- and you respond with something irrelevant to what is the "issue" brought up in this thread. Weapons functioning differently between the classes is something everyone know about and something nobody here discusses or argues about. What OP wants is that the espec unlocked weapons would be available for THAT exact same core class. Nobody says anything about mixing the weapons between the classes (from what I understand), so the answer to your question "which weapon version would the core class use?!?!" is literally "the one it unlocked from its own espec". What about this is unclear for you?

And it's not about it "being hard coded like that", because they can potentially just enable the usage of the weapons for core classes. It's probably more about the digree in which the weapon synergises with their especs (even if it's not all of them, that's still enough) and anet's vision of the game. You don't really need to make up some artificial dilemmas about "which weapon would the class use", because nobody has any doubts about that.

[Fractured.3928]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:Because Trident wasn't hardcoded into an elite spec.What does that have anything to do with a core class being able to use it or not? Especially if, like @Blocki.4931 said in his original claim, especs are treated as separate classes for weapon availability? It's not like a weapon being accessible by one class prevents it from being used by another, after all.

@robertthebard.8150 said:I have no access to code, but, a dagger does something different on different classes, off the top of my head. A thief using it off hand certainly doesn't get the same skills an Ele does. That's the element that's probably hardcoded.No more or less hardcoded that any other skills are. And yet they did add skills to core classes throughout the GW2 history.Besides, notice how those skills for elite spec weapons are already in the game. You don't need to make them

Anet was talking about possibly adding new weapons to the classes since the very beginning of the game. As such, i don't find it likely that they've made those classes in a way that would make adding weapons to them prohibitively hard.

So just to stick to my example, which version of dagger are they going to use? What happens if they choose the "wrong" version? My DD's staff behaves very differently from an Ele's staff, which staff should they use? I'm not sure how that applies to other classes, as I haven't used them enough to know. I do know that a Mesmer with a GS does something completely different than what a Warrior does with the same weapon. If every weapon behaved the same way on every class, this wouldn't be hard to do at all, but they don't. To use the great sword example again, Warrior, Ranger and Mesmer all use it, but it's a different weapon on all three classes, based on the skills it gives.

To answer your other question, they coded one set of skills for one class for the trident. What happens if you want to use it on another class that can already use the trident, and you don't get those skills? Even e spec weapons will run into this problem on classes that can already use the base weapon. Since, as I mentioned, weapons don't perform the same way across the board, and we really don't want them to, which versions are they going to make available, and what happens when the version they decide is the best to use doesn't meet what certain members of the community wanted? The short answer is a thread similar to this one.

I'm honestly not even sure what point you're trying to make anymore? Its confusing.

A weapon is literally just a variable in the code, with an attached graphic, and an attached animation.

Which is unique for whichever class is using it. The class determines the weapon's function, not the weapon type. As mentioned in my previous post, in order to make this function properly, all classes would have to have access to all e specs, because that's how the game's coded to deal with them.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know how the game is coded?

I play it? I equip weapons on characters, and observe what skills they give when I do. I notice that different classes get different skills for the same weapon types, and I know that's down to how they're coded. I don't have to have backend knowledge of the game, this is observable on the user level. A staff on my Weaver performs significantly different from a staff on my DD. I don't have to have any understanding of game code to notice this, I simply have to equip the weapons in question on a spec that can use them to see it.

So, when I equip a staff on my DD, I don't get Ele skills. Why is that? Because the game is coded to read "DD spec, assign skills a-e". If it went on weapon type alone, then Ele would get DD skills, or, since Ele was in first, DDs would get Ele skills. Instead, the code checks the class, and assigns the appropriate skills for allowed weapons. That it's coded based on class is observable by the classes that use the same weapon, but get different skills accordingly. It doesn't matter if it's Core or Elite, that's how the game handles weapons.

So you're making this all up as you go, got it. Well I'll leave you to it then.

Really? So a Great Sword on your Warrior and Ranger behave exactly the same, and give exactly the same skills? You're the only one in the game to have that happen. One of us is making stuff up...

You have no point here -as far as I understand what you're talking about- and you respond with something irrelevant to what is the "issue" brought up in this thread. Weapons functioning differently between the classes is something everyone know about and something nobody here discusses or argues about. What OP wants is that the espec unlocked weapons would be available for THAT exact same core class. Nobody says anything about mixing the weapons between the classes (from what I understand), so the answer to your question "which weapon version would the core class use?!?!" is literally "the one it unlocked from its own espec". What about this is unclear for you?

And it's not about it "being hard coded like that", because they can potentially just enable the usage of the weapons for core classes. It's probably more about the digree in which the weapon synergises with their especs (even if it's not all of them, that's still enough) and anet's vision of the game. You don't really need to make up some artificial dilemmas about "which weapon would the class use", because nobody has any doubts about that.

You're right. I'm not even sure what that person is arguing half the time lol.

The real argument is balance, and the weapons that are legit tied to the ESpec's ability (Weaver, and Holosmith as examples). Balance I don't care as much about, since almost every (if not every) class has weapons that are often so underpowered they are considered useless. It sucks that this would just add another one to the list, but more content/builds is more content/builds.

However, weapons literally being useless (Like Holosmith) would be a problem. They could somehow tweak the numbers so that when it is not under Holosmith, it runs as "average" without heat. But it is probably too much to ask for. And how would you even deal with Weaver?

[robertthebard.8150]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:Because Trident wasn't hardcoded into an elite spec.What does that have anything to do with a core class being able to use it or not? Especially if, like @Blocki.4931 said in his original claim, especs are treated as separate classes for weapon availability? It's not like a weapon being accessible by one class prevents it from being used by another, after all.

@robertthebard.8150 said:I have no access to code, but, a dagger does something different on different classes, off the top of my head. A thief using it off hand certainly doesn't get the same skills an Ele does. That's the element that's probably hardcoded.No more or less hardcoded that any other skills are. And yet they did add skills to core classes throughout the GW2 history.Besides, notice how those skills for elite spec weapons are already in the game. You don't need to make them

Anet was talking about possibly adding new weapons to the classes since the very beginning of the game. As such, i don't find it likely that they've made those classes in a way that would make adding weapons to them prohibitively hard.

So just to stick to my example, which version of dagger are they going to use? What happens if they choose the "wrong" version? My DD's staff behaves very differently from an Ele's staff, which staff should they use? I'm not sure how that applies to other classes, as I haven't used them enough to know. I do know that a Mesmer with a GS does something completely different than what a Warrior does with the same weapon. If every weapon behaved the same way on every class, this wouldn't be hard to do at all, but they don't. To use the great sword example again, Warrior, Ranger and Mesmer all use it, but it's a different weapon on all three classes, based on the skills it gives.

To answer your other question, they coded one set of skills for one class for the trident. What happens if you want to use it on another class that can already use the trident, and you don't get those skills? Even e spec weapons will run into this problem on classes that can already use the base weapon. Since, as I mentioned, weapons don't perform the same way across the board, and we really don't want them to, which versions are they going to make available, and what happens when the version they decide is the best to use doesn't meet what certain members of the community wanted? The short answer is a thread similar to this one.

I'm honestly not even sure what point you're trying to make anymore? Its confusing.

A weapon is literally just a variable in the code, with an attached graphic, and an attached animation.

Which is unique for whichever class is using it. The class determines the weapon's function, not the weapon type. As mentioned in my previous post, in order to make this function properly, all classes would have to have access to all e specs, because that's how the game's coded to deal with them.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know how the game is coded?

I play it? I equip weapons on characters, and observe what skills they give when I do. I notice that different classes get different skills for the same weapon types, and I know that's down to how they're coded. I don't have to have backend knowledge of the game, this is observable on the user level. A staff on my Weaver performs significantly different from a staff on my DD. I don't have to have any understanding of game code to notice this, I simply have to equip the weapons in question on a spec that can use them to see it.

So, when I equip a staff on my DD, I don't get Ele skills. Why is that? Because the game is coded to read "DD spec, assign skills a-e". If it went on weapon type alone, then Ele would get DD skills, or, since Ele was in first, DDs would get Ele skills. Instead, the code checks the class, and assigns the appropriate skills for allowed weapons. That it's coded based on class is observable by the classes that use the same weapon, but get different skills accordingly. It doesn't matter if it's Core or Elite, that's how the game handles weapons.

So you're making this all up as you go, got it. Well I'll leave you to it then.

Really? So a Great Sword on your Warrior and Ranger behave exactly the same, and give exactly the same skills? You're the only one in the game to have that happen. One of us is making stuff up...

You have no point here -as far as I understand what you're talking about- and you respond with something irrelevant to what is the "issue" brought up in this thread. Weapons functioning differently between the classes is something everyone know about and something nobody here discusses or argues about. What OP wants is that the espec unlocked weapons would be available for THAT exact same core class. Nobody says anything about mixing the weapons between the classes (from what I understand), so the answer to your question "which weapon version would the core class use?!?!" is literally "the one it unlocked from its own espec". What about this is unclear for you?

And it's not about it "being hard coded like that", because they can potentially just enable the usage of the weapons for core classes. It's probably more about the digree in which the weapon synergises with their especs (even if it's not all of them, that's still enough) and anet's vision of the game. You don't really need to make up some artificial dilemmas about "which weapon would the class use", because nobody has any doubts about that.

Weapons functioning differently is a given. It's also the core of the issue with "move this espec weapon to this other espec". Druid and DD both use staff, which staff are they going to move, because just moving staff doesn't bestow the benefits from whichever espec someone may be wanting from staff. Because the weapons don't perform uniformly across the spectrum of classes, such as the example that you claim is pointless, there's a lot more involved than just "poof, you can now use (insert weapon here) from (insert espec here)". Yes, it's because of the way the game is coded to treat weapons, per class. The average thief doesn't pick up a great sword and go all mesmer on something because the game is coded to not allow thieves to use great swords, and because the skillset that goes to mesmer doesn't go to other classes.

Then there's the issue of traits that go along with the espec, and make it unique, and give the real beef behind why someone may want to use a particular weapon on a different espec. They'd be majorly disappointed if a weapon type was allowed, but got none of the perks they were looking for from it, but instead got a base set of skills. IF the weapon were the catalyst for what's going on, it would be easier to implement, but it's not. The specs themselves are where the benefits come from. For example, I can use a lot of the DE benefits with the thief's base weapons. Just moving weapon type x from spec y won't give the benefits of x w/out the spec to back it up.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Fractured.3928" said:However, weapons literally being useless (Like Holosmith) would be a problem. They could somehow tweak the numbers so that when it is not under Holosmith, it runs as "average" without heat. But it is probably too much to ask for. And how would you even deal with Weaver?Remember, that weaver sword already has full attunement versions for skill 3

@robertthebard.8150 said:Weapons functioning differently is a given. It's also the core of the issue with "move this espec weapon to this other espec". Druid and DD both use staff, which staff are they going to moveThe version from relevant profession, of course. Nobody except you is talking about moving weapons from espec of one profession to core or espec of another profession. We're talking about unlocking espec weapons only within that espec's profession. So, both Core Ranger and Soulbeast would use a Druid staff. Not a DD one. The DD staff would be unlocked for Core Thief and DE.There's no question of "which version of weapon to choose", because the method used already decides that choice for us.

That's why the "problems" you bring up are completely irrelevant to the issue from this thread.

@robertthebard.8150 said:Then there's the issue of traits that go along with the espec, and make it unique, and give the real beef behind why someone may want to use a particular weapon on a different espec.Sure, the weapons might end up being underpowered. That was already mentioned - and it's not really an argument against the idea. At best, it's a reminder that the end effect might not be all too good (which is fine - we don't want it to be too good, after all. It would be bad if the weapons were better in different espec than the one they were made for).

[Sobx.1758]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Fractured.3928 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:Because Trident wasn't hardcoded into an elite spec.What does that have anything to do with a core class being able to use it or not? Especially if, like @Blocki.4931 said in his original claim, especs are treated as separate classes for weapon availability? It's not like a weapon being accessible by one class prevents it from being used by another, after all.

@robertthebard.8150 said:I have no access to code, but, a dagger does something different on different classes, off the top of my head. A thief using it off hand certainly doesn't get the same skills an Ele does. That's the element that's probably hardcoded.No more or less hardcoded that any other skills are. And yet they did add skills to core classes throughout the GW2 history.Besides, notice how those skills for elite spec weapons are already in the game. You don't need to make them

Anet was talking about possibly adding new weapons to the classes since the very beginning of the game. As such, i don't find it likely that they've made those classes in a way that would make adding weapons to them prohibitively hard.

So just to stick to my example, which version of dagger are they going to use? What happens if they choose the "wrong" version? My DD's staff behaves very differently from an Ele's staff, which staff should they use? I'm not sure how that applies to other classes, as I haven't used them enough to know. I do know that a Mesmer with a GS does something completely different than what a Warrior does with the same weapon. If every weapon behaved the same way on every class, this wouldn't be hard to do at all, but they don't. To use the great sword example again, Warrior, Ranger and Mesmer all use it, but it's a different weapon on all three classes, based on the skills it gives.

To answer your other question, they coded one set of skills for one class for the trident. What happens if you want to use it on another class that can already use the trident, and you don't get those skills? Even e spec weapons will run into this problem on classes that can already use the base weapon. Since, as I mentioned, weapons don't perform the same way across the board, and we really don't want them to, which versions are they going to make available, and what happens when the version they decide is the best to use doesn't meet what certain members of the community wanted? The short answer is a thread similar to this one.

I'm honestly not even sure what point you're trying to make anymore? Its confusing.

A weapon is literally just a variable in the code, with an attached graphic, and an attached animation.

Which is unique for whichever class is using it. The class determines the weapon's function, not the weapon type. As mentioned in my previous post, in order to make this function properly, all classes would have to have access to all e specs, because that's how the game's coded to deal with them.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know how the game is coded?

I play it? I equip weapons on characters, and observe what skills they give when I do. I notice that different classes get different skills for the same weapon types, and I know that's down to how they're coded. I don't have to have backend knowledge of the game, this is observable on the user level. A staff on my Weaver performs significantly different from a staff on my DD. I don't have to have any understanding of game code to notice this, I simply have to equip the weapons in question on a spec that can use them to see it.

So, when I equip a staff on my DD, I don't get Ele skills. Why is that? Because the game is coded to read "DD spec, assign skills a-e". If it went on weapon type alone, then Ele would get DD skills, or, since Ele was in first, DDs would get Ele skills. Instead, the code checks the class, and assigns the appropriate skills for allowed weapons. That it's coded based on class is observable by the classes that use the same weapon, but get different skills accordingly. It doesn't matter if it's Core or Elite, that's how the game handles weapons.

So you're making this all up as you go, got it. Well I'll leave you to it then.

Really? So a Great Sword on your Warrior and Ranger behave exactly the same, and give exactly the same skills? You're the only one in the game to have that happen. One of us is making stuff up...

You have no point here -as far as I understand what you're talking about- and you respond with something irrelevant to what is the "issue" brought up in this thread. Weapons functioning differently between the classes is something everyone know about and something nobody here discusses or argues about. What OP wants is that the espec unlocked weapons would be available for THAT exact same core class. Nobody says anything about mixing the weapons between the classes (from what I understand), so the answer to your question "which weapon version would the core class use?!?!" is literally "the one it unlocked from its own espec". What about this is unclear for you?

And it's not about it "being hard coded like that", because they can potentially just enable the usage of the weapons for core classes. It's probably more about the digree in which the weapon synergises with their especs (even if it's not all of them, that's still enough) and anet's vision of the game. You don't really need to make up some artificial dilemmas about "which weapon would the class use", because nobody has any doubts about that.

Weapons functioning differently is a given. It's also the core of the issue with "move this espec weapon to this other espec". Druid and DD both use staff, which staff are they going to move, because just moving staff doesn't bestow the benefits from whichever espec someone may be wanting from staff.

Why do you keep mixing professions? It was never part of the discussion. Do you not understand what everone keeps telling you or what's the deal with that irrelevant "druid/DD staff has different skills"? Reread what you've answered to.

Nobody is talking about mixing especs between the classes and nobody is talking about mixing weapons from other classes' especs. Re-read the previous few posts until they go through, please, because I'm not sure how else to put it for you to understand.

Which staff would ranger get? Druid's. Which staff would Thief get? Daredevil's. What exactly is unclear for you in this?

The average thief doesn't pick up a great sword and go all mesmer

Nobody in this thread wants that, what are you even talking about?

Also to be completely clear, I still don't think it would be a good idea (as I've said in previous post/s), it's just that you're answering with something irrelevant to the thread or the posts you're trying to respond to.

[robertthebard.8150]

It's not a good idea, but it's not a good idea because the whole point of e specs is a sense of progression after the level cap. We don't have a gear treadmill. Once one has crafted their endgame equipment, they're done with that. So, instead of giving us a real grind, they did this. Why "undo" it by moving the spec down to core, instead of endgame?

[Tukaram.8256]

It makes perfect sense to me the way it is. My necro generally does not have access to the greatsword. The greatsword they gave me is soulbound to the character, and I assume is tied to the reaper elite spec, as it should be.

If I use reaper - he can use greatswords. If I do not use reaper - he cannot use greatswords. If I switch to scourge, he can use a torch. How else would it work?

[Fractured.3928]

@Tukaram.8256 said:It makes perfect sense to me the way it is. My necro generally does not have access to the greatsword. The greatsword they gave me is soulbound to the character, and I assume is tied to the reaper elite spec, as it should be.

If I use reaper - he can use greatswords. If I do not use reaper - he cannot use greatswords. If I switch to scourge, he can use a torch. How else would it work?

There are a few reasons against doing what I'd like. However, what you just said makes no sense lol.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"robertthebard.8150" said:It's not a good idea, but it's not a good idea because the whole point of e specs is a sense of progression after the level cap. We don't have a gear treadmill. Once one has crafted their endgame equipment, they're done with that. So, instead of giving us a real grind, they did this. Why "undo" it by moving the spec down to core, instead of endgame?Presumably you would still need to unlock the whole espec in order to unlock the weapon for core. And, as you already mentioned, that weapon without supporting traits would be weaker than when used by the espec it was designed for. Not to mention, the core is generally weaker than its especs. So, the progression you speak of would still have place.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Tukaram.8256 said:It makes perfect sense to me the way it is. My necro generally does not have access to the greatsword. The greatsword they gave me is soulbound to the character, and I assume is tied to the reaper elite spec, as it should be.

It's not tied to reaper spec. Sure, you can use it only with reaper, but that's because on that characte reaper is only espec with access to greatswords, you can't switch profession on characters, and the weapon is soulbound so you can't transfer it to another character. The upgraded version (ascended one, from collection) is accound bound, though, and it can be used on every profession and espec that has access to greatswords (so, in addition to reaper, on all warrior, guardian, mesmer and ranger core and elite specs)

If I use reaper - he can use greatswords. If I do not use reaper - he cannot use greatswords. If I switch to scourge, he can use a torch. How else would it work?

What a weird question. It could work in a thousand of other ways. The only reason why it works this way and not any different is due to a design decision. That decision however was purely arbitrary (we could as easily have ended with reaper using one handed sword, and scourge using hammer, for example), and, as every design decision, can be subject to change.

[Taril.8619]

@"robertthebard.8150" said:It's not a good idea, but it's not a good idea because the whole point of e specs is a sense of progression after the level cap. We don't have a gear treadmill. Once one has crafted their endgame equipment, they're done with that. So, instead of giving us a real grind, they did this. Why "undo" it by moving the spec down to core, instead of endgame?

They could still put the weapon inside the E-Spec. Heck they could even make the fully unlocked weapon usage be tied to completely obtaining all traits within the E-Spec (So you get access to the weapon with the E-Spec upon spending the 30 points to obtain the E-Spec, but won't get to use the weapon in Core/other E-Specs until you've spent the 250 points to get the entire E-Spec)

Thus, E-Spec weapons are still a part of "End-game" (Which, more and more feels like "The beginning of the game" with so much stuff locked behind being level 80) and are still locked behind purchasing the relevant expansion to access said E-Spec (So F2P players aren't able to run around with E-Spec weapons)

@Tukaram.8256 said:It makes perfect sense to me the way it is. My necro generally does not have access to the greatsword. The greatsword they gave me is soulbound to the character, and I assume is tied to the reaper elite spec, as it should be.

Actually, the greatsword you get from being Reaper is bind on equip. Meaning that you can send it to another character that is a different class and equip it (I've actually done that with some of the E-Spec gear. For example, I geared out my Warrior with some Dragonhunter gloves and Herald shoulders. While sending the Dragonhunter Longbow to my Ranger)

Then of course, once you play the E-Spec a bit and unlock the Ascended version of the E-Spec weapon, it is bind to account, so you can swap it between any class even after equipping it.

@Tukaram.8256 said:If I use reaper - he can use greatswords. If I do not use reaper - he cannot use greatswords. If I switch to scourge, he can use a torch. How else would it work?

The alternate way it could work would be:

You unlock the Reaper specialization and gain the knowledge on how to wield a Greatsword (Not withstanding the numerous "Bundles" that are greatswords that your character can use just fine)

Swapping to Scourge or Core, means your character doesn't forget how to use a Greatsword. And thus can continue using a Greatsword with these builds.

Unlocking Scourge will give the knowledge on how to wield a Torch. Which you'd remember how to do after swapping to Core/Reaper.

Weapons being intrinically tied to E-Specs, really only makes much sense if multiple E-Specs on a class were using the same weapons and providing different skills.I.e. If both Druid and Soulbeast used Staff. But while Druid got supportive magic skills for its Staff, Soulbeast got physical damage skills that provided pet synergies (Which apply to self while Merged)

Outside of issues such as balance (Which, to be honest, is more about the balance of a particular E-Spec itself, rather than the weapon)

[maddoctor.2738]

A sort analysis of elite spec weapons:

GuardianDragonhunter: No trait supportFirebrand: One trait

RevenantHerald: Heralds channel Glint, one of her abilities was Crystal Hibernation (same as Shield 5). One traitRenegade: Shortbow is Kalla's weapon. One trait

WarriorBerserker: Would need to create a Primal Burst skill for Dagger. One traitSpellbreaker: One trait

EngineerScrapper: No trait supportHolosmith: Sword skills are affected by Heat

RangerDruid: One traitSoulbeast: No trait support (Rangers have access to offhand Dagger)

ThiefDaredevil: One traitDeadeye: Would need to create a Stealth Attack for Staff, One trait

ElementalistTempest: No trait supportWeaver: One trait (no need to create dual skills for warhorn, dual skills are based on mainhand weapon)

MesmerChronomancer: No trait support, however Shield allows the application of Alacrity, which is a boon Mesmers do not have access to without going Chronomancer (Signet of Inspiration is the exception since it provides a random boon)Mirage: One trait

NecromancerReaper: No trait supportScourge: One trait

6 / 18 elite spec weapons do not even have traits to augment them (Dragonhunter, Scrapper, Soulbeast, Tempest, Chronomancer, Reaper)2 / 18 elite spec weapons require the creation of extra skills (Dagger Primal Burst to add it to Berserker, Staff Stealth Attack to add it to Deadeye)2 / 18 elite spec weapons are affected by profession abilities/traits (Sword affected by Heat on Holosmith, Shield providing Alacrity on Chronomancer)

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@maddoctor.2738 said:A sort analysis of elite spec weapons:

GuardianDragonhunter: No trait supportFirebrand: One trait

RevenantHerald: Heralds channel Glint, one of her abilities was Crystal Hibernation (same as Shield 5). One traitRenegade: Shortbow is Kalla's weapon. One trait

WarriorBerserker: Would need to create a Primal Burst skill for Dagger. One traitSpellbreaker: One trait

EngineerScrapper: No trait supportHolosmith: Sword skills are affected by Heat

RangerDruid: One traitSoulbeast: No trait support (Rangers have access to offhand Dagger)

ThiefDaredevil: One traitDeadeye: Would need to create a Stealth Attack for Staff, One trait

ElementalistTempest: No trait supportWeaver: One trait (no need to create dual skills for warhorn, dual skills are based on mainhand weapon)

MesmerChronomancer: No trait support, however Shield allows the application of Alacrity, which is a boon Mesmers do not have access to without going Chronomancer (Signet of Inspiration is the exception since it provides a random boon)Mirage: One trait

NecromancerReaper: No trait supportScourge: One trait

6 / 18 elite spec weapons do not even have traits to augment them (Dragonhunter, Scrapper, Soulbeast, Tempest, Chronomancer, Reaper)2 / 18 elite spec weapons require the creation of extra skills (Dagger Primal Burst to add it to Berserker, Staff Stealth Attack to add it to Deadeye)2 / 18 elite spec weapons are affected by profession abilities/traits (Sword affected by Heat on Holosmith, Shield providing Alacrity on Chronomancer)

Correction reaper has a trait for gs the mid top trait affects greatsword

[Taril.8619]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:A sort analysis of elite spec weapons:

GuardianDragonhunter: No trait supportFirebrand: One trait

RevenantHerald: Heralds channel Glint, one of her abilities was Crystal Hibernation (same as Shield 5). One traitRenegade: Shortbow is Kalla's weapon. One trait

WarriorBerserker: Would need to create a Primal Burst skill for Dagger. One traitSpellbreaker: One trait

EngineerScrapper: No trait supportHolosmith: Sword skills are affected by Heat

RangerDruid: One traitSoulbeast: No trait support (Rangers have access to offhand Dagger)

ThiefDaredevil: One traitDeadeye: Would need to create a Stealth Attack for Staff, One trait

ElementalistTempest: No trait supportWeaver: One trait (no need to create dual skills for warhorn, dual skills are based on mainhand weapon)

MesmerChronomancer: No trait support, however Shield allows the application of Alacrity, which is a boon Mesmers do not have access to without going Chronomancer (Signet of Inspiration is the exception since it provides a random boon)Mirage: One trait

NecromancerReaper: No trait supportScourge: One trait

6 / 18 elite spec weapons do not even have traits to augment them (Dragonhunter, Scrapper, Soulbeast, Tempest, Chronomancer, Reaper)2 / 18 elite spec weapons require the creation of extra skills (Dagger Primal Burst to add it to Berserker, Staff Stealth Attack to add it to Deadeye)2 / 18 elite spec weapons are affected by profession abilities/traits (Sword affected by Heat on Holosmith, Shield providing Alacrity on Chronomancer)

Correction reaper has a trait for gs the mid top trait affects greatsword

The trait doesn't specifically require nor benefit Greatsword.